Guild Wars 2

Warjin.8942:

What are you talking about, adding one server with a different rule set isn’t like asking for a game revamp, also I fail to see the problem with trying to make the game more enjoyable for all types of players

The “problem” is ANet isn’t trying to make this game enjoyable for all types of players

Too bad, so sad.

They want this game to be about cooperative play. Being social and enjoying the company of other gamers. Not the anti-social FFAPvP mayhem that many other games already provide.
And no, adding a single server would not be okay, because it would demand balancing, new mechanics, and all that jazz because ANet has a rep to uphold.

I’m sorry but that’s just how it is. What you’re asking for is equivalent to asking McDonalds to become a 5-star restaurant – It’s not their area.

If you want FFA gameplay, this is not the game for you, and you’re going to have to settle with finding a different game to play to satisfy that need.

Latorn.4209:

Sadly it seems like WvW is the replacement for this idea. It’s too bad there aren’t that many PvP objectives and the maps are pretty much the same

I do agree though that something like a FFA PvP server would be amazing and I would totally be addicted to it

Picture the epic battles deep in some cave trying to do a jump puzzle, or using the Npc and terrain on your behalf to overcome the odds, the world GW2 has is IMO a perfect playground for FFA, also the player politics that come with FFA, knowing a players reputation by name, gives me goose bumps thinking of the possibilities of a FFA server in GW2.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Warjin.8942:

What are you talking about, adding one server with a different rule set isn’t like asking for a game revamp, also I fail to see the problem with trying to make the game more enjoyable for all types of players

The problem is ANet isn’t trying to make this game enjoyable for all types of players

Too bad, so sad.

They want this game to be about cooperative play. Being social and enjoying the company of other gamers. Not the anti-social FFAPvP mayhem that many other games already provide.

I’m sorry but that’s just how it is. What you’re asking for is equivalent to asking McDonalds to become a 5-star restaurant – It’s not their area.

If you want FFA gameplay, this is not the game for you, and you’re going to have to settle with finding a different game to play to satisfy that need.

One server, that’s it, nothing else changes.

Warjin.8942:

One server, that’s it, nothing else changes.

Nope. You don’t get to decide whether or not anything else changes

Business 101: ANet has a reputation to uphold. They would have to put in new mechanics, start balancing that bloody mess, and produce new content for the server.
For example: How the hell would they stop thieves from being the only class worth playing on this FFA server?

^ One server is too much.

They do not want to provide that content because they are focused on a different variety of players – A target demographic. You are clearly not a part of that variety, so sorry but that’s life.

Again – What you’re asking for is like asking McDonalds to incorporate an extra cashier in every restaurant that accepts orders for Hell’s Kitchen menus.

While it may sound awesome in your head, it sounds idiotic to the company.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Warjin.8942:

One server, that’s it, nothing else changes.

Nope. You don’t get to decide whether or not anything else changes

Business 101: ANet has a reputation to uphold. They would have to put in new mechanics, start balancing that bloody mess, and produce new content for the server.

They do not want to provide that content because they are focused on a different variety of players. You are clearly not a part of that variety, so sorry but that’s life.

Again – What you’re asking for is like asking McDonalds to incorporate an extra cashier in every restaurant that accepts orders from Hell’s Kitchen.

While it may sound awesome in your head, it sounds idiotic to the company.

By that logic it’s best not to ask A-Net for anything.

Warjin.8942:

Recreant.3192:

So let me get this straight: In your mind, if I am not rabidly for something, to the point that I am willing to ignore the consistently insulting and derogatory tone of its most vocal proponents, I am anti-whatever.

And I’m “in the wrong.” Curious, explain to me how my point that FFA has an image problem exacerbated by its propenents consistent use of insulting/derogatory language has been shown incorrect.

And hey, go ahead and throw in an argument from “if you don’t like it, shut the kitten up” because that really gets your point across.

Add another demeaning of your opponents mental faculties.

Well played, sir.

I’m not going to fall for this trap, you are purposely trying to turn this thread into a derailed argument so that A-Net locks this thread so that the FFA topic get lost drawing less attention on the subject making the possibility less likely to happen do to lack of exposure.

Well played on your part almost fell for it, but the form griefing is done, I will no longer reply unless it’s about how and why a FFA server is needed.

“High Ranked Chess Player” I see many moves ahead. Good day sir.

gasp Oh no, my wicked scheme has been sussed out! HA ha haha.

As good a chess player as you might be, we’re not playing chess, dear Warjin. My repertoire of moves need not mirror your own, nor must our goals be polar opposites

Sadly, your pedestrian assumption falls woefully short of my true nefarious intent: pointing out that insulting and demeaning your detractors isn’t a good way to plead your case.

Let me shock you: I actually enjoy the concept of FFA. You might hae realized that if you’d paid closer attention. The issue I have is that as it stands now, FFA communities are almost inevitably self-destructive. (The only places they survive is where there is no other option).

Look at how you and other presented yourself here. Look at the introduction must new players have to FFA, i.e. being ganked. Do you not see how these are deterrents to new player uptake?

How about an alternative: “I know that there are anti-social elements within the community and I don’t like them. I’d much rather progress beyond that to a community with strong guild rivalries instead. However, I can’t do this alone. Since many of you are also opposed to these anti-social elements, you’d make strong allies in curbing these griefers. Yes, things may be difficult at first, but together we can create a protective environment for newcomers and veterans alike. If we can do that, perhaps you too will discover the enjoyment that I find in FFA.”

That being said, there are an abundance of programming/game mechanics issues that are major hurdles to adding an FFA environment here. Any attempt here would either

a) be poorly done, leading to endless complaints
b) take a long enough development cycle that it would be better included in GW3

Warjin.8942:

DreamOfACure.4382:

Warjin.8942:

One server, that’s it, nothing else changes.

Nope. You don’t get to decide whether or not anything else changes

Business 101: ANet has a reputation to uphold. They would have to put in new mechanics, start balancing that bloody mess, and produce new content for the server.

They do not want to provide that content because they are focused on a different variety of players. You are clearly not a part of that variety, so sorry but that’s life.

Again – What you’re asking for is like asking McDonalds to incorporate an extra cashier in every restaurant that accepts orders from Hell’s Kitchen.

While it may sound awesome in your head, it sounds idiotic to the company.

By that logic it’s best not to ask A-Net for anything.

I think I understand what you’re saying but I still have no clue how you’re going to get out.

Recreant.3192:

• possessive personality disorder

• No one can transfer a character to this server type, and if you create a toon on this server type you can not create toons on the other server types (unless you delete all toons on the FFA server)

• hand holding PVE server

• Post WoW MMO players that are pretty much ex-console players that made the jump to PC/Mac gaming and needed instant glorification or they would just quit and cry like they did when they played console games with there friends.

• Oh and you sir are a complete pu…sorry I called you sir,Ma’am

• Carebears

• babying the players

• greedy slobs

• they just want to save there online ego’s

• “Care Bear Land”

This is a selection of comments from the pro-ffa people in this thread. Having played for years on FFA and PvP servers all the while lamenting the popultion dearth, I can tell you that these comments are indicative of the majority of players that want such playtypes and are the reason that so many are against it.

To put it bluntly, the PvP servers always ends up being dominated by kittens, braggards and pseudo-bullies whose actions and demeanor actively discourage an influx of new players while simultaneously wearing away the resolve of any pvper not in the above categories.

I find it interesting that I was quoted as a “pro FFA” responder. What I am is Pro choice. Why people object to people wanting different things from the game always baffled me. In discussion of GW2 while I do not object to a FFA server I do object to the resources it would take to create and maintain one (far more then simply opening a new server). The reason I added the “only can have toons on this one server type” is I am reminded of DAOC.

All the FFA people asked and asked for this in DAOC. Mythic delivered, people flocked there to the point that they added a second FFA server. A couple months later both servers were empty, 1 closed and the original would have max 100 people on at peak times. Total waste of resources. Having said that, I will restate that I have no issue with the concept of FFA servers and just because I would never play there doesn’t mean I have to campaign against people who do like it

First off, there is nothing wrong with asking for changes or new content. I don’t get it why some ppl come here in this thread acting as if the op demands changes.

Anyway, about the topic. It is not just adding a server that allows FFA PVP just like that. With FFA PVP you also have to decide to make safe zones or not. The moment you decide to do that, it takes development time and it needs to be updated and checked everytime against new content that is added to GW2. With possible new specific bugs related to the FFA PVP mechanics. So even for just one FFA server it could mean relatively lot of extra dev time.

Apart from that I also think that GW2 PVE doesn’t really work with this. With events aimed at groups of players working together without being actually grouped, it is grieferheaven. I would expect events to be completely ignored as result. Not something the devs would want I think.

@ deracs

A fair call. You yourself are not necessarily pro-ffa and I admit the oversight.

The quoted phrase is a typical statement by pro-OPvPer across several games that highlights one of my criticisms of the FFA community. Further, it creates a stratification of the community and forces people who enjoy both playstyles to either sacrifice one or shell out for a separate account.

I believe the point I raised regarding the image problem with OPvP/FFA and its cannibalizing nature can be directly linked to the scenario you descirbed in DAOC.

Finally, for clarity’s sake, I’m not campaigning against people who like FFA, I’m campaigning against people who think the use of insults/derogatory comments is an effective means of conveying their points. I like the concept of FFA, but I know that until the image problems are addressed, its implementation is kittened

Call Me M.6392:

First off, there is nothing wrong with asking for changes or new content. I don’t get it why some ppl come here in this thread acting as if the op demands changes.

Anyway, about the topic. It is not just adding a server that allows FFA PVP just like that. With FFA PVP you also have to decide to make safe zones or not. The moment you decide to do that, it takes development time and it needs to be updated and checked everytime against new content that is added to GW2. With possible new specific bugs related to the FFA PVP mechanics. So even for just one FFA server it could mean relatively lot of extra dev time.

Apart from that I also think that GW2 PVE doesn’t really work with this. With events aimed at groups of players working together without being actually grouped, it is grieferheaven. I would expect events to be completely ignored as result. Not something the devs would want I think.

I think that there are certain mechanics within GW2 that would make for interesting applications within a FFA environment. To occupy my time on long drives, I often brainstorm game concepts. Some of the mechanics I tinkered with in the FFA concepts bear a resemblance to bits of GW2

Generally speaking, though, there are far more elements that work against an FFA environment and/or would cause serious coding problems. Dynamic grouping is one of them.

Ultimately, any effort to adapt GW2 to include an FFA server would be better spent devloping a game from the ground up to include these mechanics

@ Warjin

Was addressing Hantu not you, setting aside the assumptions, the condescending attitude isn’t necessary to press a point. And last I checked anyone with posting privileges can comment whether they’re for or against the original post, I don’t see what’s “wrong” with that. Moving on.

If they added an open world GvG warring system then that could work(like L2 or TERA), but with the current multi-guild system, that’ll take some thought(can’t change rep til war is over?). Maybe gain/lose titles or get some other stuff that do nothing to increase stats or modify the economy in any way. But those participating could perhaps still be susceptible to the problems that could plague a truly FFA GW2 environment .

I’m going to ignore the ignorant “post WoW care-bear console gamers” comments for now as they’re obvious trolling flame bait. There are still some serious issues with your suggestion, beyond my opinion on FFA itself.

1) Looting. Even if we go with your suggestion that you can only loot unbound items from players, this still doesn’t work because a good chunk of the valuable unbound loot can be instantly sent to your bank at any time. If you’re expecting killing players to ever be profitable in any way then you are going to need to disable disable this feature.

2) Porting. There’s a reason that as games like WoW added more and more convenient ways to travel around, world PvP became less and less of a thing. In a game like Guild Wars 2 where the primary method of getting around is to just teleport there, a FFA server will inherently be more about ganking players as they’re staring at loading screens or already engaged with another enemy than actually running into and fighting other players head-on. Any encounter that isn’t a gank or an ambush could be avoided by just turning around, hitting M, and clicking a way point, assuming you ran into anyone to begin with.

3) AoE. Many skills in this game are AoE, especially melee attacks. How do you expect large outdoor events to work when anyone in front of you will get smacked in the back with your projectiles? Or your melee swings cleave on the people around you? Or how about when you’re fighting another player and you use a AoE support ability, will it also benefit your target? How about group vs group content? These are all issues that would need to be worked out for this single server to function in any way.

4) Balance. Many things in this game already have different effects depending on whether the player is in a PvE or PvP area. Which do you consider the “PvE” zones or dungeons to be for the sake of this issue? Whichever you choose, the other portion of the game will be inherently unbalanced.

5) WvW. So this is a single server…. who does it get matched up with for WvW? Are players from this server still able to attack each other in WvW areas, or are you going to out and out disable it? If you keep it, how do you expect that to work in these chaotic situations in any way? It’s the same problem above with large events. If you’re going to disable it then that should be a hint that there will be huge problems with other parts of the game.

And if you decide to just lock it out of WvW then you need new monthly achievements just for this server.

These are all things that NEED to be worked on before a FFA server can ever hope to function in this game. This would require a huge amount of resources to get right, some of these things are core mechanics/features to the game that need to be reworked for the sake of getting a single specialty server to work. Which completely flies in the face of your repeated argument that the existence of this wouldn’t affect those that don’t want FFA, because the resources invested in just getting this single server to work are resources that could be spent on any other aspect of the game that would benefit anyone who plays on any server.

You keep on bringing up games like EVE when those games were built from the ground up with FFA in mind. Maybe you should try actually playing those games and notice some of the key design decisions they make that separate them from games like GW2, because there is a LOT more that goes into making a good MMO with FFA PvP than simply letting everyone attack each other and calling it a day.

gennyt.3428:

@ Warjin

Was addressing Hantu not you, setting aside the assumptions, the condescending attitude isn’t necessary to press a point. And last I checked anyone with posting privileges can comment whether they’re for or against the original post, I don’t see what’s “wrong” with that. Moving on.

---

If they added an open world GvG warring system then that could work(like L2 or TERA), but with the current multi-guild system, that’ll take some thought(can’t change rep til war is over?). Maybe gain/lose titles or get some other stuff that do nothing to increase stats or modify the economy in any way. But those participating could perhaps still be susceptible to the problems that could plague a truly FFA GW2 environment .

@ Warjin Was addressing Hantu not you, setting aside the assumptions, the condescending attitude isn’t necessary to press a point. And last I checked anyone with posting privileges can comment whether they’re for or against the original post, I don’t see what’s “wrong” with that. Moving on.
You are right, everyone has that right to post, It just gets old fighting over and over with negative people that just flat out say things like “no won’t work”, my problem is I know it will work, I game examples.

Sure it will take some tweeking & some resources from A-Net we all know this but what gets me is Anti FFA players seem to think that those resources should only be spent on things they deem worthy, last I checked we all have rights to A-nets resources and it really comes down to A-Net on if they want to use those resources on “X” ideas.

My case was FFA has a place in GW2 and could be molded into the system and judging from my exp. and looking at other FFA MMO’s out that I think it would be a smash hit due to the fact no AAA MMO dev has even attempted to add a FFA server post WoW.

Ehra.5240:

I’m going to ignore the ignorant “post WoW care-bear console gamers” comments for now as they’re obvious trolling flame bait. There are still some serious issues with your suggestion, beyond my opinion on FFA itself.

1) Looting. Even if we go with your suggestion that you can only loot unbound items from players, this still doesn’t work because a good chunk of the valuable unbound loot can be instantly sent to your bank at any time. If you’re expecting killing players to ever be profitable in any way then you are going to need to disable disable this feature.

2) Porting. There’s a reason that as games like WoW added more and more convenient ways to travel around, world PvP became less and less of a thing. In a game like Guild Wars 2 where the primary method of getting around is to just teleport there, a FFA server will inherently be more about ganking players as they’re staring at loading screens or already engaged with another enemy than actually running into and fighting other players head-on. Any encounter that isn’t a gank or an ambush could be avoided by just turning around, hitting M, and clicking a way point, assuming you ran into anyone to begin with.

3) AoE. Many skills in this game are AoE, especially melee attacks. How do you expect large outdoor events to work when anyone in front of you will get smacked in the back with your projectiles? Or your melee swings cleave on the people around you? Or how about when you’re fighting another player and you use a AoE support ability, will it also benefit your target? How about group vs group content? These are all issues that would need to be worked out for this single server to function in any way.

4) Balance. Many things in this game already have different effects depending on whether the player is in a PvE or PvP area. Which do you consider the “PvE” zones or dungeons to be for the sake of this issue? Whichever you choose, the other portion of the game will be inherently unbalanced.

5) WvW. So this is a single server…. who does it get matched up with for WvW? Are players from this server still able to attack each other in WvW areas, or are you going to out and out disable it? If you keep it, how do you expect that to work in these chaotic situations in any way? It’s the same problem above with large events. If you’re going to disable it then that should be a hint that there will be huge problems with other parts of the game.

And if you decide to just lock it out of WvW then you need new monthly achievements just for this server.

These are all things that NEED to be worked on before a FFA server can ever hope to function in this game. This would require a huge amount of resources to get right, some of these things are core mechanics/features to the game that need to be reworked for the sake of getting a single specialty server to work. Which completely flies in the face of your repeated argument that the existence of this wouldn’t affect those that don’t want FFA, because the resources invested in just getting this single server to work are resources that could be spent on any other aspect of the game that would benefit anyone who plays on any server.

You keep on bringing up games like EVE when those games were built from the ground up with FFA in mind. Maybe you should try actually playing those games and notice some of the key design decisions they make that separate them from games like GW2, because there is a LOT more that goes into making a good MMO with FFA PvP than simply letting everyone attack each other and calling it a day.

As you pretty much pointed out it isn’t just make a new server and call it FFA, there are some things that need worked out.

Just some examples I am sure A-net can perfect it:

1. Waypoints, immune from damage for X amount of seconds, or immune from enemy player damage and to do damage from within X yards of the waypoint, if a player leaves that point they are flaged, this gives players a choice to leave that waypoint if it is being camped from the outside.
2. Gw2 is perfect for FFA with the level down to zone system.
3. Aoe, when in the same event, group, guild players are immune from friendly fire.
4. Towns, guards will attack PK’s or just make all town immune, up to A-net.

As for WvW you bring up a interesting point, that would be tricky ,my guess is A-net can disable WvW or add players at random each resrt to lower pop servers that need the help, not sure really on how to work this out.

Ideas are be welcome.

Brainstorm together as a community on how we can make a FFA work not fight over resource rights lol.

If anything Gw2 has a better system in place then most FFA games like Eve & Darkfall due to the level down to zone feature.

I played AC for years. Frostfell with the wife and Darktide for PK goodness. In my opinion AC is the best MMO ever, hands down. Those were the days and I have hopped from game to game ever since praying for a skill based game where no one asks or cares about end game.

Alas, I’ve given up…

GW2 is the most fun I’ve had in MMO’S since then because it was an attempt to buck the raiding model that I despise.

If they are to implement this, then they have to either implement single characters on that server or all characters on that server share whatever ’PK" flag/status from other characters. Player regulation of such activities in other games tend to fall apart because players are able to hide behind alts with no consequences.

Warjin.8942:

2. Gw2 is perfect for FFA with the level down to zone system.

You keep saying this, but it is highly questionable. Have to taken a level 80 in exotics into a beginner zone? If you had, you would have realized that the down-scaling is far from perfect. A level 80 might not have as much of an advantage as in other games, but it would not really be a competitive fight.

Guildwars 2 for us, old hardcore players is like play a game on easy mode with trainer. Some future update will be like u wont kill mobs, u will pet them… and all armor textures will be unicorn or ponny like…

Rynarx.6124:

If they are to implement this, then they have to either implement single characters on that server or all characters on that server share whatever ’PK" flag/status from other characters. Player regulation of such activities in other games tend to fall apart because players are able to hide behind alts with no consequences.

Thanks for the idea you gave me : )

Pay real money to buy 1 character slot that will be placed in that FFA server, the money from this option can go to resource & funding the FFA server and solves the problem with all characters being on this so called FFA server or having to move servers to do so, this will also solve where you are place in WvW.

It can be a option players buy from there shop, kind of like D3 hardcore mode, same character selection screen but placed on a different server with that rule set but shared account wide banks ect. like it is in normal mode. (pretty much a special FFA character slot you buy only for that type of game play)

P.S. See folks we can figure out a option that will solve the WvW issue, resource issue (which is really all about money) and the big brother alts.

On one condition; Transferring to and from a FFA server would be instant and free. And no “wait a week” either. It’s truly not a thing for everyone and therefore no one should be forced to stay simply due to his curiosity.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Warjin.8942:

2. Gw2 is perfect for FFA with the level down to zone system.

You keep saying this, but it is highly questionable. Have to taken a level 80 in exotics into a beginner zone? If you had, you would have realized that the down-scaling is far from perfect. A level 80 might not have as much of an advantage as in other games, but it would not really be a competitive fight.

Never said it was perfect, sure the level 80 in all decked out gear will have the advantage, but not to the degree other FFA games have where a high level kills level 1 out the starting zone, at least this will help ease the pain sort of speak, in a way this is no different then a level 1 vs a level 80 in WvW.

Keep in mind FFA servers where never about fair, it was always about the thrill of survival, at least it was for me.

Oxstar.7643:

On one condition; Transferring to and from a FFA server would be instant and free. And no “wait a week” either. It’s truly not a thing for everyone and therefore no one should be forced to stay simply due to his curiosity.

I don’t see why not, example: if you buy a slot to join this FFA server and you find you don’t like it then it sould not be any different then just buying an additional slot for standard mode the only difference is you paid for a FFA character slot (prices may vary of course between the two), it’s still a character slot,
Rules can be only one character can join a FFA server at any given time, so lets say one week you want to test your ranger in FFA but you don’t like the feel you then can swap to another class or create a new one just for that server.

Options are what a player really wants if you think about it, with this at least those that want a harsh form of GW2 can do so, simply not offering the option is were many MMO lack today.

Warjin.8942:

As for WvW you bring up a interesting point, that would be tricky ,my guess is A-net can disable WvW or add players at random each resrt to lower pop servers that need the help, not sure really on how to work this out.

Ideas are be welcome.

Brainstorm together as a community on how we can make a FFA work not fight over resource rights lol.

If anything Gw2 has a better system in place then most FFA games like Eve & Darkfall due to the level down to zone feature.

Since for WvW the PvP server players have to go to a map shared with the PVE servers, they could be just forced on the same system as PVE servers. They can not attack players from their own server, only other ones. This could possibly make some interesting tweaks in the server’s politics.

On a different note, the guild hopping system is a wreck all around currently, I believe it is killing many of GW2’s guilds, and any game with a healthy community needs the big monster guilds and the small guilds equally. I hope they remove it all together as soon as possible before we have no more small guilds left around. If they do not remove it, it should be disabled for the PvP server, so if you dislike a guild, all you can do is LEAVE.

Funding: Add an item in the gem store that is a future pass to a PvP server. It will clearly state that WHEN it is opened a player can use this pass to transfer, better get one now as spots are limited, reserve yours today. Server spaces are limited so this item would be a limited edition.This “buy in advance” item will provide some of the funds for development and indicate the actual level of interest in such thing. If after the server is open it is capped, great. If not the transfer would still require the pass. No one should be “trapped” in this server, if people want to transfer out, go for it. Now server transfers are free, but they were not meant to be free, they were always meant to be a paid service. Obviously this server would not open until the guesting system is in place and transfers are paid.

So Overall changes that they would need to implement:

1- copy + paste + edit some code from WvW system to add into regular maps. Ask Ncsoft about how they deal with AOE damage and friendly fire if they can’t figure it out.

2- In towns you get the determined to survive buff that you get in your base of WvW

3- When porting to a WP you get determined buff when standing on it but loose it as soon as you move 1 step away

4- No changes in WvW, to simplify all this, PvP server obeys all rules that others do

5- Penalty for killing players who are not defending themselves. They would need to ask help from NCsoft for that as they have a very similar system in L2.

6- and actual Guild Wars system, ask NCsoft for codes and tweak them.

7- Stop the idiotic guild hoping thing. Even if a PvP server is out of the question.

Warjin.8942:

By that logic it’s best not to ask A-Net for anything.

No, by that logic, you should only ask for things that expand on what the target demographic would want.
Examples include: More item skins, New dynamic events, Improved Legendary weapon graphics, new dungeons, different WvW maps, new sPvP maps, etc..

FFA is not one of those things, and never will be.

Get over it.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Warjin.8942:

By that logic it’s best not to ask A-Net for anything.

No, by that logic, you should only ask for things that expand on what the target demographic would want.
Examples include: More item skins, New dynamic events, Improved Legendary weapon graphics, new dungeons, different WvW maps, new sPvP maps, etc..

FFA is not one of those things, and never will be.

Get over it.

I know something you don’t know, you will find out in a few months. remember this post.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Warjin.8942:

By that logic it’s best not to ask A-Net for anything.

No, by that logic, you should only ask for things that expand on what the target demographic would want.
Examples include: More item skins, New dynamic events, Improved Legendary weapon graphics, new dungeons, different WvW maps, new sPvP maps, etc..

FFA is not one of those things, and never will be.

Get over it.

As much as I want to argue with you.

You are right sadly.

To all the pro FFA or even pro PvP people, this game isn’t for us.

Warjin.8942:

I know something you don’t know, you will find out in a few months. remember this post.

Out of everything that has been said in this thread, this has to be my favorite comment by far. Just because if whatever you “know” doesn’t happen in a few months, which is an extremely vague statement, everyone will have forgotten this thread and you wont be embarrassed about anything. But if whatever it is does happen, it wont but we can pretend that it does, you can just go into your favorites, necro this by then dead thread, and scream from the rooftops “SEE! I TOLD YOUZ GUYS SO!!!!”

The perfect win/win for people that have no clue what they’re talking about.
+25 internets to you sir

Nooga.1265:

Warjin.8942:

I know something you don’t know, you will find out in a few months. remember this post.

Out of everything that has been said in this thread, this has to be my favorite comment by far. Just because if whatever you “know” doesn’t happen in a few months, which is an extremely vague statement, everyone will have forgotten this thread and you wont be embarrassed about anything. But if whatever it is does happen, it wont but we can pretend that it does, you can just go into your favorites, necro this by then dead thread, and scream from the rooftops “SEE! I TOLD YOUZ GUYS SO!!!!”

The perfect win/win for people that have no clue what they’re talking about.
+25 internets to you sir

Your statement of " it wont " is extremely arrogant, as you have no idea of what will happen. For all you know the OP could be the brother in-law of a game designer. What makes you so confident to KNOW that he doesn’t know something? And I really do hope that he knows something that we do not, and that this something will make PvPers happy. I really hope that it affects everyone including people who dislike PvP, so they could be sitting at home thinking “I wish they just made a FFA server and leave our servers alone”

Nooga.1265:

Warjin.8942:

I know something you don’t know, you will find out in a few months. remember this post.

Out of everything that has been said in this thread, this has to be my favorite comment by far. Just because if whatever you “know” doesn’t happen in a few months, which is an extremely vague statement, everyone will have forgotten this thread and you wont be embarrassed about anything. But if whatever it is does happen, it wont but we can pretend that it does, you can just go into your favorites, necro this by then dead thread, and scream from the rooftops “SEE! I TOLD YOUZ GUYS SO!!!!”

The perfect win/win for people that have no clue what they’re talking about.
+25 internets to you sir

Lol very true, But !!! I didn’t say what I do know lol

Nah just messing with the poster, I can’t win vs a guys like that, hes will only see what he wants to, not saying he is wrong but for sure one of those internet guys, you know the type.

Because if he KNEW something that would bring the changes to the game that no one else knew he wouldnt have said, “you will find out in a few months” leaving his desperation to make people think he knows something extremely open. He would have come out and said it. Until he does, his comment, in my opinion at least, is an undeniable fact that he knows nothing and is praying to the gods of embarrassment to take mercy on him.

EDIT: Posted while my post was being written-

Warjin.8942:

Lol very true, But !!! I didn’t say what I do know lol

Nah just messing with the poster, I can’t win vs a guys like that, hes will only see what he wants to, not saying he is wrong but for sure one of those internet guys, you know the type.

Happy Hantu?

I honestly believe they can’t make a FFA server, at least not one anyone would want to play on, while leaving our servers alone. But hey, if Anet really thinks it would be more profitable to go all Star Wars Galaxies on us, I can’t blame them. I recognize that they’re out to make money. They just won’t be getting any more of mine.

Hantu.2815:

Nooga.1265:

Warjin.8942:

I know something you don’t know, you will find out in a few months. remember this post.

Out of everything that has been said in this thread, this has to be my favorite comment by far. Just because if whatever you “know” doesn’t happen in a few months, which is an extremely vague statement, everyone will have forgotten this thread and you wont be embarrassed about anything. But if whatever it is does happen, it wont but we can pretend that it does, you can just go into your favorites, necro this by then dead thread, and scream from the rooftops “SEE! I TOLD YOUZ GUYS SO!!!!”

The perfect win/win for people that have no clue what they’re talking about.
+25 internets to you sir

Your statement of " it wont " is extremely arrogant, as you have no idea of what will happen. For all you know the OP could be the brother in-law of a game designer. What makes you so confident to KNOW that he doesn’t know something? And I really do hope that he knows something that we do not, and that this something will make PvPers happy. I really hope that it affects everyone including people who dislike PvP, so they could be sitting at home thinking “I wish they just made a FFA server and leave our servers alone”

I wish I did have an inside scoop lol, but your point is valid we can not know for sure, no body really knows what A-net is up to, I was just poking fun at the poster because he clearly knows what A-net is up to and there design philosophy for the future of GW2, but who knows maybe hes the guy with the bother in-law game designer for all we know lol.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Warjin.8942:

By that logic it’s best not to ask A-Net for anything.

No, by that logic, you should only ask for things that expand on what the target demographic would want.

Examples include: More item skins, New dynamic events, Improved Legendary weapon graphics, new dungeons, different WvW maps, new sPvP maps, etc..

FFA is not one of those things, and never will be.

Get over it.

Item skins: hours of developers time, minutes of enjoyment by players. Skins are a nice goal to work towards for the hyper grinders, but add very little to a player who wants to play the game. I am a fashion addict in video games in general. I have the amazing TA light set on my necro. Very pretty, but i do not look at it while playing. If i have time to look at my armour it means that i am either waiting for someone in my team to come back to keyboard or i am not playing the game and standing around in LA. Guess what is most of the cases.

Dynamic events: Anet added an entire area recently, the sea. New dynamic events. I’m on Sorrow’s Furnace, I rarely see anyone in this area except at the rich Ori node. They sure did put developing time into it, these resources can be considered wasted.

Legendary Animations: Pretty much the same thing that goes for the skins. They do not add to the game play, they are vanity items like mini pets

New Dungeons: They added fractals, while they did give people something to do after 80, the fractals did a lot of harm to the community as a whole. There are entire books written about it on the forums.

WvW maps: It is not the maps that are killing WvW, it is the gameplay “rules”. We do not need new maps, we need more things to do in there.

SPvP maps: Again, we need more mechanics than “capture the point and shuffle the team”. Maps would be cool but I would be happier if they did not add maps, just new formats.

Aside from the WvW (they said they are working on new sPvP formats and the one we have no is more of a test), Anet did a good job listening to the community. They did what we ask them for, and it is still not enough to keep players playing and not quitting. What else can we ask for?

Nooga.1265:

Because if he KNEW something that would bring the changes to the game that no one else knew he wouldnt have said, “you will find out in a few months” leaving his desperation to make people think he knows something extremely open. He would have come out and said it. Until he does, his comment, in my opinion at least, is an undeniable fact that he knows nothing and is praying to the gods of embarrassment to take mercy on him.

EDIT: Posted while my post was being written-

Warjin.8942:

Lol very true, But !!! I didn’t say what I do know lol

Nah just messing with the poster, I can’t win vs a guys like that, hes will only see what he wants to, not saying he is wrong but for sure one of those internet guys, you know the type.

Happy Hantu?

Hantu did make a valid point, even though I was messing around we could really never know the truth for sure, after all this is the internetzZ where make believe is true because someone says so like the poster that has the clear inside scoop on A-nets design philosophy lol.

Urthona.3198:

I honestly believe they can’t make a FFA server, at least not one anyone would want to play on, while leaving our servers alone. But hey, if Anet really thinks it would be more profitable to go all Star Wars Galaxies on us, I can’t blame them. I recognize that they’re out to make money. They just won’t be getting any more of mine.

Why would you be angry at them if the new PvP server does not affect you? And what makes you think no one would want to play on it? There are plenty of people who would love to, i know this for fact as i personally asked many many game players, including some who do not play GW2 at all.

I’ve played FFA games before and a lot of it degenerates into mobs of max level characters ganking individual characters, mostly ones far below their levels. Rarely, if ever, was there any kind of fair, or even, fighting. It’s not a game about being better, it’s a game of preying on the weaker.

If you want an adrenaline rush, how about bringing back the old-time concept of permanent death. Really FFA is nothing without it. Now how many of the players will be willing to play where not only can their character’s body be looted, but terminated?

That single player, that is being attacked by a handful, can then have the satisfaction of knowing that although he was killed and his body looted, one or more of the gang attacking him is in the same boat if he is good enough. Those dead gang members can then find out if the people they were running with are true friends, or not, by whether they give their looted gear back to them on a newly created character.

If you are not willing to accept the ultimate consequence of character death, then FFA is just a pretty wrapped up version of PvE with the strong preying on the weak.

Hantu.2815:

Recreant.3192:

• possessive personality disorder

• No one can transfer a character to this server type, and if you create a toon on this server type you can not create toons on the other server types (unless you delete all toons on the FFA server)

• hand holding PVE server

• Post WoW MMO players that are pretty much ex-console players that made the jump to PC/Mac gaming and needed instant glorification or they would just quit and cry like they did when they played console games with there friends.

• Oh and you sir are a complete pu…sorry I called you sir,Ma’am

• Carebears

• babying the players

• greedy slobs

• they just want to save there online ego’s

• “Care Bear Land”

This is a selection of comments from the pro-ffa people in this thread. Having played for years on FFA and PvP servers all the while lamenting the popultion dearth, I can tell you that these comments are indicative of the majority of players that want such playtypes and are the reason that so many are against it.

To put it bluntly, the PvP servers always ends up being dominated by kittens, braggards and pseudo-bullies whose actions and demeanor actively discourage an influx of new players while simultaneously wearing away the resolve of any pvper not in the above categories.

This is almost a personal insult to everyone one who is defending the OP’s suggestion. I can too go over posts made as counter-arguments and make a list for you, and say something like “these quotes are indicative of over-protected players with a nervous systems as fragile as thin ice”. One word that MAY sound offensive to them and you are creating a toxic environment. You step on their mini pet and you are a heartless PKer.

In this comment alone you make players who are defending this idea sound like a group of arrogant e-bullies, by selecting a few words out of a wall of text. The discussion here was actually a good one, with solid and valid points brought up by both sides. Just like you make it sound like you do not want players like me in your game, I do not want exposure to players like you, I am surprised of the breeding ground a game with the word WARS in it has created for your kind. Perhaps i am too old for this gaming community, I an growing sick of the babying done by the games.

Do you realize that your post only confirms what Recreant said? You did exactly what he described in his post.

I’m one of those veterans who played UO pre-trammel, AC1 and other MMOs with FFA PvP, and I totally agree with Recreant. FFA PvP brings the worse out of players, and all the behaviors, and yes, it’s a “heaven” for cyber-bullies. It’s not that all PvP players are bullies, nope, for instance I’ve never been one, but a few are enough to ruin a game. Some people just enjoy going out of their way to ruin other player’s fun, and FFA PvP gives them total freedom to do that. Result? FFA PvP servers become deserts void of players very quickly. UO had to patch in Trammel hastily in order to stop the player bleeding caused by the constant ganking and lowbie bullying. AC1’s “Darktide” server never had more than 8% of the total game population at its peak. All other FFA PvP games either failed or barely survived with a ghost population (Shadowbane, Darkfail, Mortal Online). EvE survived for one reason… the game has safe zones, and according to CCP themself, the vast majority of the players never leave the high security areas.

So yes, you may not like to hear it, but what Recreant says is the truth. FFA PvP attracts the worse kind of gamers, the “bullies”, those who can only have fun when they ruin other’s fun, which is also a bunch of very rude and immature people. I will repeat my disclaimer, I don’t believe all PvPers are those “bullies” at all, but I believe for having experienced it that even a minority can totally ruin a game for a majority.

I dunno, just generalising here, people who enjoy FFA are usually the same guys who enjoy playing as a stealth class and camping new players in low level zones and get a kick out of killing/bullying poor newbs just trying to level in the game. Then these newbs grow up and due to their tortured past, they repeat these actions again to other fellow newbs and the chain continues. It produces a highly unhealthy game environment though sometimes the drama can be fun to observe.

Oh just to add, if they did implement this server, what would end up happening is that people would go level on a pve server then come on to this pvp server through character transfer and camp queensdale and all unprotected newb zone and spend their time with their “mates” laughing at unfortunate newbies starting the game and not knowing the danger and killing them just before quest completion or just plain grieving and not letting them out of town. I know this is a game and morales differ and to some extent you can call it roleplay but in the same circumstances, who gets a kick out of beating up primary school kids when you’re in college?

The real problem here is that the majority of players who wants FFA are griefers. Someone mentioned before that the down level system will let players have a “chance” against a gank but how can you survive a gank against 5 other players who are lvl 80 and have significant more damage due to armor stats. It’s a massacre. If Anet took away the griefing part to newbies then these griefers would just move on to other lvl 80 players who happen to be out of place. Eventually, it’ll just be a “you’re either one of us or one of them” situation. People group up together in large groups and form different unofficial factions. (sounds familiar hmm). It is never going to be a 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 situation. It is always going to be a 1 vs 10, 2 vs 10, 3 vs 50 situation. There is no respect or wit or tactics it is just a massacre of players trying to play the game.

Lafiel.9372:

I dunno, just generalising here, people who enjoy FFA are usually the same guys who enjoy playing as a stealth class and camping new players in low level zones and get a kick out of killing/bullying poor newbs just trying to level in the game. Then these newbs grow up and due to their tortured past, they repeat these actions again to other fellow newbs and the chain continues. It produces a highly unhealthy game environment though sometimes the drama can be fun to observe.

Oh just to add, if they did implement this server, what would end up happening is that people would go level on a pve server then come on to this pvp server through character transfer and camp queensdale and all unprotected newb zone and spend their time with their “mates” laughing at unfortunate newbies starting the game and not knowing the danger and killing them just before quest completion or just plain grieving and not letting them out of town. I know this is a game and morales differ and to some extent you can call it roleplay but in the same circumstances, who gets a kick out of beating up primary school kids when you’re in college?

The real problem here is that the majority of players who wants FFA are griefers. Someone mentioned before that the down level system will let players have a “chance” against a gank but how can you survive a gank against 5 other players who are lvl 80 and have significant more damage due to armor stats. It’s a massacre. If Anet took away the griefing part to newbies then these griefers would just move on to other lvl 80 players who happen to be out of place. Eventually, it’ll just be a “you’re either one of us or one of them” situation. People group up together in large groups and form different unofficial factions. (sounds familiar hmm). It is never going to be a 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 situation. It is always going to be a 1 vs 10, 2 vs 10, 3 vs 50 situation. There is no respect or wit or tactics it is just a massacre of players trying to play the game.

For the 50th time, “How is one FFA server going to effect you?” you do know players have a choice to play on those servers, so who cares if it is a server full of griefers, it will only effect those players that enjoy it or don’t mind the idea of getting greifed, the point is player choice and player option to do so.

You know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of the whole gay marriage debate, why do you care if it won’t effect you?

Are you scared that a FFA server might turn you and your kids into greifers and destroy the sanctity of GW2? lol

What a joke, come on lets use reason and logic here folks, a player that players on a FFA server will be around other players that enjoy FFA, it in no way will effect the rest of GW2 servers, unless you feel that making a FFA server “Legal” (sort of speak) that you might become one of those immoral FFA greifers lol.

Hantu.2815:

Why would you be angry at them if the new PvP server does not affect you? And what makes you think no one would want to play on it? There are plenty of people who would love to, i know this for fact as i personally asked many many game players, including some who do not play GW2 at all.

No one would stand for a FFA server with current game mechanics intact. Even if that were possible (and there are a lot of good posts in this thread explaining why it’s not) it would suck for actual FFA (for various other reasons already explained in this thread.) What people actually want is a FFA server that is balanced for FFA and, like all good games with FFA, gives people an incentive to actually participate in open-world PVP. They are not wrong to want this kind of thing. However, GW2 cannot provide that without a massive overhaul to the entire game.

If somehow it wouldn’t affect PVE, then no, I wouldn’t care. But I still firmly believe that to be done right, or at least well enough to be worth buying for FFA players, it has to.

Decrypter.1785:

How come everyone feels the need to post there gaming history ?

W v W v W is a FFA server in a kinda way

um what? do you know what ffa means? i would totally make a char on a ffa server.

Theres lots of ways they can implement it. No transfers to, dont have to lock all of your chars to that server, etc.

It’s funny how you guys are comparing gay marriage to a server which will be dedicated to player grieving and act like this is one and the same.

I was in a dungeon group with a guy about 1 week ago. Lets call him John. During the run, the group had no idea what to do on a certain part close to the end of the dungeon. Instead of stopping and explaining to ensure success, John chose to cuss our groups with words I will not repeat on the forums, call us n00bs, scrubs, and then did the worse thing one can do. He disbanded the group. Now we had 2 hours of time wasted (Yes it was a crappy group of new people, but we were all new at some point), would have to repeat the run to get the same reward.

These kind of people make more PVErs quit than the lonely griefer outside of newb town in a PVP game. At least in a PVP game, I could write John’s name on a scrap of paper and find him. And grief him. He would behave much better next time I am sure.

Lafiel.9372:

It’s funny how you guys are comparing gay marriage to a server which will be dedicated to player grieving and act like this is one and the same.

In defense of all the other FFA supporters, I alone was the only one comparing it to that, I know it’s not the same thing but the concept is the same, one group of people trying to hinder another persons happiness because they dislike or disagree and will use every excuse in the book on how and why this shouldn’t and was never meant to be, but deep down inside they just don’t support it because it’s not something they like and because they dislike it no one should so therefor they will go out there way to help prevent it from happening.

I will got out in a limb here and call it game bigotry to add some spice to the subject.

Hantu.2815:

I was in a dungeon group with a guy about 1 week ago. Lets call him John. During the run, the group had no idea what to do on a certain part close to the end of the dungeon. Instead of stopping and explaining to ensure success, John chose to cuss our groups with words I will not repeat on the forums, call us n00bs, scrubs, and then did the worse thing one can do. He disbanded the group. Now we had 2 hours of time wasted (Yes it was a crappy group of new people, but we were all new at some point), would have to repeat the run to get the same reward.

These kind of people make more PVErs quit than the lonely griefer outside of newb town in a PVP game. At least in a PVP game, I could write John’s name on a scrap of paper and find him. And grief him. He would behave much better next time I am sure.

Thank you, this is a perfect example of how there are jerks in both PvE & PvP, jerks ruin a games rep. not the type of servers.

Over the years of gaming I have seen this far to many times from both PvP & PvEer’s , IMO this random jerk that calls someone a noob and prevents a group of players from raiding, grouping and completely waste the time of a hand full of players is more detrimental to a games health then some lone wolf greifer.

Im still waiting for a pvp game, like a new lineage or a new ultima online and others over there that promises a lot.

The only FFA games I have played are SB and DAoC (Mordred.) Granted on Mordred there was a ton of griefing and I can see why people didn’t like it. I’ll get to why that is in a moment.

But let’s talk about shadowbane for a minute, the community was basically 80% sociopaths yet in about 4 years of playing it I didn’t see unprovoked griefing once. As in not once did I see people camping noobs, in fact this is the only game I saw people actively defending noobs, there was this one nation which basically recruited all noobs and showed them the ropes and if anyone tried to take their city every vet e-thug nation on the server would come to defend them simply for what they did to the community.

The reason for this I feel is that Shadowbane was designed for FFA gameplay, griefing noobs was wasting your time and giving your guild/nation a bad reputation which meant a lot in that kind of game. The reason for this was if the server hated you, you would get completely wiped off the server and would have little to no chance of getting a foothold anywhere. Harsh? Yes but it made it the most personally-accountable community I had ever seen.

Whereas DAoC wasn’t designed for FFA gameplay at all because the game didn’t have much depth from a FFA perspective, the only reputation didn’t mean much because you didn’t have much to lose. The main benefit FFA MMO’s have is accountability, and games like DAoC didn’t capitalise on this much at all.

To all the people saying FFA games are horrible and bring out the worst in people, I pity you.

To all the people saying this game would be a good FFA game, no, it would not. It is not designed for it and the amount of work it would take to turn it into a good FFA game would be absurd.

If you want your FFA fix your only real hope is CCP as they seem to be the only ones that are willing or know how to design an MMO with FFA in mind.

Tumbero.3945:

Im still waiting for a pvp game, like a new lineage or a new ultima online and others over there that promises a lot.

I’ll probably get infracted for naming another company but if you liked UO/EvE or would like to see a FFA fantasy themed sandbox check out www.goblinworks.com or search for Pathfinder Online on Kickstarter. It’s a few years away but looks promising and the developers are totally transparent with their design direction.

Hantu.2815:

I was in a dungeon group with a guy about 1 week ago. Lets call him John. During the run, the group had no idea what to do on a certain part close to the end of the dungeon. Instead of stopping and explaining to ensure success, John chose to cuss our groups with words I will not repeat on the forums, call us n00bs, scrubs, and then did the worse thing one can do. He disbanded the group. Now we had 2 hours of time wasted (Yes it was a crappy group of new people, but we were all new at some point), would have to repeat the run to get the same reward.

These kind of people make more PVErs quit than the lonely griefer outside of newb town in a PVP game. At least in a PVP game, I could write John’s name on a scrap of paper and find him. And grief him. He would behave much better next time I am sure.

Very sorry to hear that. But really, that is exactly the kind of player you’ll most likely meet on FFA servers. True pve players would understand communication and teamwork is the key to success and to put people before themselves. What you had to deal with is the residual remains of a griefer being only able to grief players any more effectively than this.

We’re only as strong as our weakest link and that is how it affects all the servers if a ffa server was put in place.

I.e leave FFA for a game which is designed for it.