Guild Wars 2

Red Falcon.8257:

Rukia.4802:

@Aeon I think you hit the nail on the head there, and at least no one else is going to try removing trinity without a proper replacement, thank god. I don’t think combat is ‘amazing’ though, more of just meh. I like actually using my brain and strategizing which is why I loved GW1.

I think you confuse combat with enemy depth.
It’s not our combat mechanics that are boring, it’s the AI.

GW1 required more tactics because:
- AI used proper teams (healer, rupter mesmer, condi necro, 2 warriors, ranger)
- AI had proper skillbars that would make sense for a player to use, sometimes even great builds with 10 skills, elites and all.
Therefore you needed to setup a good strategy to counter their builds and their comp.

GW2 lacks exactly that.
Mobs rarely have a proper “team”, it’s a miracle if they collaborate.
Mobs have 1-2 skills. Very rarely 3.
Mobs have no builds. They spam their 1-2 skills over and over.
Mobs have no team AI. They won’t try to act as a team and help each other.

Combat is great, AI is terrible.
Anet needs to stop making mobs use “mob skills” and give them proper builds like in GW1.
I expect a Warrior mob to come Bull+HB me.
A Guardian mob should give protection/aegis to the team, use bubbles and walls.

The only thing I would take from GW1 is the tactical part of it. Front/mid/back line setup, blocking, strategic pulling.

Other than that, when the fighting started, GW1 had, by far, the most shallow and boring combat mechanics I have ever seen in a game.

Also, I’d like to add that if you like housing and a detailed and flexible cosmetic outfit system, this game isn’t for you.

“If you like basketball, this game isnt for you.”

You can take a laundry list of any random features and apply to any random game and come up with a bunch of stuff it doesnt do. Kinda pointless.

Rieselle.5079:

“If you like basketball, this game isnt for you.”

You can take a laundry list of any random features and apply to any random game and come up with a bunch of stuff it doesnt do. Kinda pointless.

If this is what people were actually doing, then yes, it would be a pointless discussion. However, the discussion involves MMO activities for which GW2 (an MMO) is either lacking completely or is weak in at best. The only really pointless comment so far is…yours. lol

Celtic Lady.3729:

Rieselle.5079:

“If you like basketball, this game isnt for you.”

You can take a laundry list of any random features and apply to any random game and come up with a bunch of stuff it doesnt do. Kinda pointless.

If this is what people were actually doing, then yes, it would be a pointless discussion. However, the discussion involves MMO activities for which GW2 (an MMO) is either lacking completely or is weak in at best. The only really pointless comment so far is…yours. lol

I think the entire point of GW2 is to be different from all other MMOs.

Lack of a gear grind? lolascended

These threads are amusing. Really, defining the things that are not the core points of the game and sort of mocking those who like it. That’s like saying you don’t like Pizza Hut Pizza because they don’t put enough cheese on it. It’s kind of smug to complain about the way Pizza Hut makes pizza, expecting them to change when so many people do like it. Go to Little Caesers. And so funny to see the pulpits plop out where everyone is a minister in the Church of the Awesome. (slow clap). I’m just kidding. Seriously.

If you like the grind and don’t like to have fun – this game isn’t for you.

Morena.9604:

I really believe that devs prepared this game for a really specific(even unique) type of a player base.

They did, because there weren’t really any games out there for this type of player, and perhaps some of the devs themselves are this type of player.

Then along came the profit-monster and it’s hunger.

Now we have an interestingly unique game design, with a hastily tacked on progression-MMO added on top like a mother-in-law apartment over the garage of a victorian inspired mansion. Not only is the plywood frame ugly and out of place, but the mother-in-law herself is just as distasteful to most of the family who bought the house for it’s beauty and uniqueness.

Okay, maybe that metaphor went a little far, but it bothers me when unique products are homogenized in an attempt to entice more customers than the original design. Profits are king, but they come at the expense of art so often.

If I want to play an RPG style game, online, with my friends around the country I have to choose one from a list of basically identical titles and jump on a gear treadmill. I’d hoped to avoid that with this game, but instead of simply saying “this game isn’t for you” to all the people complaining it wasn’t the same as every other MMO, they added a nice long grindy treadmill straight out of “The Idiot’s Guide to MMO Design”.

That trinity reason really makes me laugh. Is not that you’re bound to play a specific role because of choosing a class.

In GW2 you can tune your most of the classes to play a specific part of that trinity. Guardians, elementalists, etc… can either DPS or support, heal, even tank.

Anyway, that trinity concept is nowadays more a cage than a model. It just closes doors and reduces the player’s freedom. I’m glad that GW2 has broken that cage.

Lyrio.9431:

That trinity reason really makes me laugh. Is not that you’re bound to play a specific role because of choosing a class.

In GW2 you can tune your most of the classes to play a specific part of that trinity. Guardians, elementalists, etc… can either DPS or support, heal, even tank.

Except you really can’t. Any deviation from straight up DPS will just kitten your build for no good reason.

digiowl.9620:

Lyrio.9431:

That trinity reason really makes me laugh. Is not that you’re bound to play a specific role because of choosing a class.

In GW2 you can tune your most of the classes to play a specific part of that trinity. Guardians, elementalists, etc… can either DPS or support, heal, even tank.

Except you really can’t. Any deviation from straight up DPS will just kitten your build for no good reason.

Only if you play solely in PUGs. If you actually take the time to form some sort of team synergy with friends or guildies, you’ll find that everything runs more smoothly. But yes, that takes some effort and coordination.

The lack of trinity was a pretty big mistake on Arenanet part. Essentially all the classes play like DPSers with some added utility. Yes sure in theory there is still teamwork but its as if you decided to run a dungeon in WoW with 5 warlocks. Maybe they could do it with some awesome teamwork.

But the average run of the mill encounter/boss/world boss etc doesn’t use any team work. So called ‘easy’ teamwork isn’t there – and none of the other systems whether the combo system or the utility skills really compensate.

The end result is that the learning curve for this game is all messed up. Its either ultra easy all casual – but tricky in certain PvP situations/dungeons etc. I hate to break it to Arenanet but the holy trinity (group roles) really WAS a step forward for MMOs.

The rest of their problems – lack of progression etc can be fixed. But this fundamental design error weakens the game dramatically. I guess even GW1 had roles.

I feared it wouldn’t really work when I read about it – and it doesn’t. World Bosses are just zerg fests/buttom spams. That’s because as I explained before if they balanced it to be hard you might need some really tricky teamwork or like say a "burn’ team of all skilled glass cannons.

Safer Saviour.9685:

Red Falcon.8257:

Rukia.4802:

@Aeon I think you hit the nail on the head there, and at least no one else is going to try removing trinity without a proper replacement, thank god. I don’t think combat is ‘amazing’ though, more of just meh. I like actually using my brain and strategizing which is why I loved GW1.

I think you confuse combat with enemy depth.
It’s not our combat mechanics that are boring, it’s the AI.

GW1 required more tactics because:
- AI used proper teams (healer, rupter mesmer, condi necro, 2 warriors, ranger)
- AI had proper skillbars that would make sense for a player to use, sometimes even great builds with 10 skills, elites and all.
Therefore you needed to setup a good strategy to counter their builds and their comp.

GW2 lacks exactly that.
Mobs rarely have a proper “team”, it’s a miracle if they collaborate.
Mobs have 1-2 skills. Very rarely 3.
Mobs have no builds. They spam their 1-2 skills over and over.
Mobs have no team AI. They won’t try to act as a team and help each other.

Combat is great, AI is terrible.
Anet needs to stop making mobs use “mob skills” and give them proper builds like in GW1.
I expect a Warrior mob to come Bull+HB me.
A Guardian mob should give protection/aegis to the team, use bubbles and walls.

I find most of the complaints on this thread to be worthless to me, but this? This is spot on and I’d never actually thought about it before. The mobs in GW2 are varied but there are very few which actively synergise with their own allies and the area around them. The closest the game comes to that kind of content is… probably the dredge and even then, there are some severe limitations.

The developers would do well to look at their AI systems and see how they could improve. Patrols and unified groups would be a very nice upgrade, for sure.

There’s a reason for this, though. Guild Wars 1, being completely instanced, means you can control the environment quite specifically. Nothing respawns. So if you get a group, Anet can insure that’s the only group.

In a game with a persistent world, those types of groups can only appear in instanced content and they do. You simply have to go into instanced to find them.

Imagine a game where things respawn all the time that has a number of players in it and suddenly some guy appears there alone. He has multiple healers, who he tries to kill but its’ not like GW 1 where you have heroes or henchmen. This guy really is alone.

It would be impossible to put this stuff in the open world without making the open world unplayable for a whole lot of people…maybe even people who liked it in Guild wars 1.

Its not for you if you bought it based on what was said in the manifesto.

Hume.2876:

The lack of trinity was a pretty big mistake on Arenanet part. Essentially all the classes play like DPSers with some added utility. Yes sure in theory there is still teamwork but its as if you decided to run a dungeon in WoW with 5 warlocks. Maybe they could do it with some awesome teamwork.

But the average run of the mill encounter/boss/world boss etc doesn’t use any team work. So called ‘easy’ teamwork isn’t there – and none of the other systems whether the combo system or the utility skills really compensate.

The end result is that the learning curve for this game is all messed up. Its either ultra easy all casual – but tricky in certain PvP situations/dungeons etc. I hate to break it to Arenanet but the holy trinity (group roles) really WAS a step forward for MMOs.

The rest of their problems – lack of progression etc can be fixed. But this fundamental design error weakens the game dramatically. I guess even GW1 had roles.

I feared it wouldn’t really work when I read about it – and it doesn’t. World Bosses are just zerg fests/buttom spams. That’s because as I explained before if they balanced it to be hard you might need some really tricky teamwork or like say a "burn’ team of all skilled glass cannons.

World bosses are zerg fests because scaling doesn’t work past a certain number and they aren’t instanced.

Also, the lack of trinity is the only thing that they have stood firm on and it’s the best thing about the entire game. Well, no trinity and active combat.

Kromica.2831:

Its not for you if you bought it based on what was said in the manifesto.

I bought it based on what was said in the manifesto and I’m happy with the product. Everyone likes to pick on the manifesto but plenty of people think the game got fairly close to what they said they wanted to do. If you didn’t, shrugs. Doesn’t change the game for anyone else.

Geikamir.6329:

Hume.2876:

The lack of trinity was a pretty big mistake on Arenanet part. Essentially all the classes play like DPSers with some added utility. Yes sure in theory there is still teamwork but its as if you decided to run a dungeon in WoW with 5 warlocks. Maybe they could do it with some awesome teamwork.

But the average run of the mill encounter/boss/world boss etc doesn’t use any team work. So called ‘easy’ teamwork isn’t there – and none of the other systems whether the combo system or the utility skills really compensate.

The end result is that the learning curve for this game is all messed up. Its either ultra easy all casual – but tricky in certain PvP situations/dungeons etc. I hate to break it to Arenanet but the holy trinity (group roles) really WAS a step forward for MMOs.

The rest of their problems – lack of progression etc can be fixed. But this fundamental design error weakens the game dramatically. I guess even GW1 had roles.

I feared it wouldn’t really work when I read about it – and it doesn’t. World Bosses are just zerg fests/buttom spams. That’s because as I explained before if they balanced it to be hard you might need some really tricky teamwork or like say a "burn’ team of all skilled glass cannons.

World bosses are zerg fests because scaling doesn’t work past a certain number and they aren’t instanced.

Also, the lack of trinity is the only thing that they have stood firm on and it’s the best thing about the entire game. Well, no trinity and active combat.

They stood firm on no monthly fee, beautiful scenary design, active combat, a branching storyline (storylines do branch), dynamic events, and a whole plethora of other things they said. People forget so easily.

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Hume.2876:

The lack of trinity was a pretty big mistake on Arenanet part. Essentially all the classes play like DPSers with some added utility. Yes sure in theory there is still teamwork but its as if you decided to run a dungeon in WoW with 5 warlocks. Maybe they could do it with some awesome teamwork.

But the average run of the mill encounter/boss/world boss etc doesn’t use any team work. So called ‘easy’ teamwork isn’t there – and none of the other systems whether the combo system or the utility skills really compensate.

The end result is that the learning curve for this game is all messed up. Its either ultra easy all casual – but tricky in certain PvP situations/dungeons etc. I hate to break it to Arenanet but the holy trinity (group roles) really WAS a step forward for MMOs.

The rest of their problems – lack of progression etc can be fixed. But this fundamental design error weakens the game dramatically. I guess even GW1 had roles.

I feared it wouldn’t really work when I read about it – and it doesn’t. World Bosses are just zerg fests/buttom spams. That’s because as I explained before if they balanced it to be hard you might need some really tricky teamwork or like say a "burn’ team of all skilled glass cannons.

World bosses are zerg fests because scaling doesn’t work past a certain number and they aren’t instanced.

Also, the lack of trinity is the only thing that they have stood firm on and it’s the best thing about the entire game. Well, no trinity and active combat.

They stood firm on no monthly fee, beautiful scenary design, active combat, a branching storyline (storylines do branch), dynamic events, and a whole plethora of other things they said. People forget so easily.

Ah monthly fee, but with that they said that the gem store would be cosmetic ONLY. They changed the FAQ on wiki a couple months before BWE1. Then they gave players the ability to buy gold and boosts with cash. Whether that’s negative for you or not, is a different topic.

Everything else you mentioned is questionable.

For example:
-DE’s, while better than questing for sure, are accompanied with hearts. If you want to get a legendary (the PvE end-game) you have to do hearts. Hearts are exactly like old-style quests. Fetch/Kill 10 rats. They are even anti-team work because you can’t share the limited supply of slowly respawning collection items.

-Branching storylines. Oh, how wonderful they are…. until about level 30. Then it’s no longer a personal story, it’s Trahearne’s story. One where your decisions don’t matter because the entire path is identical in the end and he gets the most of the credit. Nothing you do prior to level 30-40ish matters or even is mentioned later in the game. It’s disconnected and disjointed. Quite far from “My Story” as was marketed.

What else?

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

Geikamir.6329:

Also, the lack of trinity is the only thing that they have stood firm on and it’s the best thing about the entire game. Well, no trinity and active combat.

More like “hyperactive” combat…

I am surprised they didn’t put in falling dryers to squash anyone that stands still for more than 5 seconds.

Seras.5702:

This game is for me. Fun-centric play is better than gear-centric play. I don’t want to feel obligated to grind the same dungeon every day just for +5power. I want to enjoy leveling alts (which I do frequently) and playing through PvE maps without taking a hit on the challenge, fun, or drops (thanks auto-scaling!). I like 8 professions that each feel very different. I like being able to PvP at any level and hot-join matches as a casual PvPer. I like access to dungeons at multiple levels, not just max. I like no gear treadmill or dps-calculators for people who like to brandish their kitten. I like being able to join multiple guilds (personal friends, large active guild, PvP oriented, etc). I’m not saying I don’t have some complaints; what game is 100% perfect for anyone? But this game is for me.

All the grind for ascended gear is “fun centric”? All the grind for lode stones, tier six materials, ectos and gold to obtain items is “fun centric”? Players aren’t choosing to spend hundreds of hours grinding CoF path 1 or repeatedly running dungeons or slaying karka on the beach like and old school MMO. ArenaNet designed content to be grind centric. Log in every day, repeat the same stuff every day, do this a ridiculous number of times and then you can achieve the content you wanted. It doesn’t matter that you can opt it, what matters is ArenaNet designed a huge grind into the game for players who choose to opt in, and you can bet most of those players don’t opt in to enjoy the grind. ArenaNet didn’t have fun as the focus when designing lodestone, ecto, laurel, pristine relic design, they had grind and stretching content out just like every other MMO.

Guild Wars 2 and ArenaNet did not put fun first. Grind and fabricating even more grind (with real time limitations) to keep players logging in and playing every day, those are the things ArenaNet put first. Fun falls somewhere further down the list (I wouldn’t even say it’s second or third given the kinds of compromises the game makes on fun to prioritise some other goal).

*If you like gear progression… this game isn’t for you
Personally, my gear progression consists of getting the cosmetics I want, and since all my chars are asura’s, I am going after some of the tier 3 sets. I like it when I finally saved up enough gold in order to purchase one.

Next to that. on my warrior I did the same, first I got my berserker set, and now I am going for a toughness / vitality set using karma, and on that one I will put some tier 2 asura armor, just for the looks. Takes a while to get all this stuff. So yes, I like gear progression in this case, not stats wise but cosmetics wise.

*If you like playing a certain role in trinity… this game isn’t for you
As for being “tanky”, I like taking some of the hits with my warrior or guardian and I like healing+support on my guardian. As for DPS so far I am going with my warrior. I like to DPS today and tomorrow I like to heal and support. It doesn’t have to be trinity for me, I can still achieve that “trinity stuff” personally.

*Most importantly if you like to have a goal… this game isn’t for you
Really? Maybe if you only play one character yes. I am a casual player and I have a lot of goals, as described above with the cosmetics for example. I have world completion on 2 chars and halfway on one. Once I finish on the third I am making another char. There are a lot of goals you can have in this game, you just have to find them.

Thrashbarg.9820:

If I want to play an RPG style game, online, with my friends around the country I have to choose one from a list of basically identical titles and jump on a gear treadmill. I’d hoped to avoid that with this game, but instead of simply saying “this game isn’t for you” to all the people complaining it wasn’t the same as every other MMO, they added a nice long grindy treadmill straight out of “The Idiot’s Guide to MMO Design”.

Well if you wanted, and your friends wanted, you can go get MapTools, buy some D&D books or Pathfinder, and get to work.

. . . what? It’s valid to all his points. It’s not intentionally grindy like an MMO, it’s personal, it’s RPG like, and it’s not made with the Idiot’s Guide to MMO Design.

(It’s probably made from the Idiot’s Guide to D&D but that’s beside the point.)

Vayne.8563:

Kromica.2831:

Its not for you if you bought it based on what was said in the manifesto.

I bought it based on what was said in the manifesto and I’m happy with the product. Everyone likes to pick on the manifesto but plenty of people think the game got fairly close to what they said they wanted to do. If you didn’t, shrugs. Doesn’t change the game for anyone else.

I may be the only person who saw the Manifesto and said “it’s not going to happen exactly like that. I mean, even Richard Garriott didn’t get far with Ultima Online”. I knew there were several things they were describing which was going to hit technical limitations, and what to expect the compromises to be.

I knew we weren’t going to get “permanent, lasting changes” because it was counter to something else where they had said they don’t really like the idea of locking players out of participating in something fun just because they showed up late to the party. (I think I ran across that during GW1’s run.)

I knew the game was still going to have its share of button-mashy combat or “hit the big bag of HP until it drops”. You’re not going to get rid of that without pretty much screwing over the rest of the design. Especially where the Dynamic Events are meant to offer participation awards so people can get credit for being there even if they’re not the top damagers. You can see this during things like champion events in low level zones where they spawn and get dropped before more people can join in.

Heck, the Shadow Behemoth and Frozen Maw? You’d be lucky to get any credit on pre-events, and if you weren’t on top of targeting you could lose credit on the actual group event boss. Imagine if that was the same all the way to the Claw of Jormag . . . how frustrating.

I may be the only person who knew the manifesto wasn’t word-for-word design document to be held as law, and saw it as what they were aiming for.

Shiren.9532:

All the grind for ascended gear is “fun centric”? All the grind for lode stones, tier six materials, ectos and gold to obtain items is “fun centric”? Players aren’t choosing to spend hundreds of hours grinding CoF path 1 or repeatedly running dungeons or slaying karka on the beach like and old school MMO. ArenaNet designed content to be grind centric.

Unfortunately ANet is not quite brave enough (unlike say, EVE) to flout expectations. So GW2 breaks new ground cautiously whilst remaining somewhat familiar.

Personally, I would have preferred action-skill based repeatable content, so people achieve rewards based on improving their player skill at the game.

But for large part of the playerbase, such design would feel like “banging your head against a brick wall” grind, akin to dying over and over in Dark Souls. (I love that game!)

So what’s the alternative? ANet clearly went with the safe option – optional grind for cosmetics, achievements or minor stat increases. This appeases the expectations of the players that want that kind of thing, and is easily accessible to anyone who wants to put the time in.

What’s YOUR alternative? Does it fulfill their marketing and design objectives better than what they have? It’s easy to complain when things don’t match your preferences, but not so easy when you have to please a wide variety of players and stakeholders.

Rieselle.5079:

Unfortunately ANet is not quite brave enough (unlike say, EVE) to flout expectations. So GW2 breaks new ground cautiously whilst remaining somewhat familiar.

EvE Online is such a wonderful little gem of a game. I’ll never play it but still I’m glad it exists.

Geikamir.6329:

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Hume.2876:

The lack of trinity was a pretty big mistake on Arenanet part. Essentially all the classes play like DPSers with some added utility. Yes sure in theory there is still teamwork but its as if you decided to run a dungeon in WoW with 5 warlocks. Maybe they could do it with some awesome teamwork.

But the average run of the mill encounter/boss/world boss etc doesn’t use any team work. So called ‘easy’ teamwork isn’t there – and none of the other systems whether the combo system or the utility skills really compensate.

The end result is that the learning curve for this game is all messed up. Its either ultra easy all casual – but tricky in certain PvP situations/dungeons etc. I hate to break it to Arenanet but the holy trinity (group roles) really WAS a step forward for MMOs.

The rest of their problems – lack of progression etc can be fixed. But this fundamental design error weakens the game dramatically. I guess even GW1 had roles.

I feared it wouldn’t really work when I read about it – and it doesn’t. World Bosses are just zerg fests/buttom spams. That’s because as I explained before if they balanced it to be hard you might need some really tricky teamwork or like say a "burn’ team of all skilled glass cannons.

World bosses are zerg fests because scaling doesn’t work past a certain number and they aren’t instanced.

Also, the lack of trinity is the only thing that they have stood firm on and it’s the best thing about the entire game. Well, no trinity and active combat.

They stood firm on no monthly fee, beautiful scenary design, active combat, a branching storyline (storylines do branch), dynamic events, and a whole plethora of other things they said. People forget so easily.

Ah monthly fee, but with that they said that the gem store would be cosmetic ONLY. They changed the FAQ on wiki a couple months before BWE1. Then they gave players the ability to buy gold and boosts with cash. Whether that’s negative for you or not, is a different topic.

Everything else you mentioned is questionable.

For example:
-DE’s, while better than questing for sure, are accompanied with hearts. If you want to get a legendary (the PvE end-game) you have to do hearts. Hearts are exactly like old-style quests. Fetch/Kill 10 rats. They are even anti-team work because you can’t share the limited supply of slowly respawning collection items.

-Branching storylines. Oh, how wonderful they are…. until about level 30. Then it’s no longer a personal story, it’s Trahearne’s story. One where your decisions don’t matter because the entire path is identical in the end and he gets the most of the credit. Nothing you do prior to level 30-40ish matters or even is mentioned later in the game. It’s disconnected and disjointed. Quite far from “My Story” as was marketed.

What else?

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

Hearts aren’t like old style quests. Most hearts, almost all of them, I skip and get incidentally when doing events. Try that with old fashioned quests. Also most have different ways of accomplishing them. And then, if you want a legendary, well, you have to do that on ONE character. That’s only if you want a legendary, many don’t care.

Lying is not something that’s subjective, it’s objective, because it implies intent. You can’t lie accidentally. So you can say they didn’t do what they said they would, without using the word lie. Language is actually my business. i

It’s why I’m so sensitive to it.

Vayne.8563:

Some DE’s happen close to hearts, yes. DE’s are good. But Hearts are not. And if there are no DE’s at the time, which happens FAR more often than there being some (or enough to finish) than it’s just normal questing 90% of the time. With limited resources to combat cooperation on top of it all.

Lying is subjective for everyone except the person telling the potential lie, unless the person openly admits to the lie. There is no way to no for sure, so you have to use context clues or evidence if you are trying to identify a lie. And if they deny, it doesn’t mean they didn’t lie.

In either case, it doesn’t matter when talking about companies instead of people. They marketed and sold a product with specific guidelines and promises that they went by. Fundamentals for the entire product. They have changed them since then and a lot of the customers feel betrayed, no matter what their intentions were.

There is sooooo much stuff to pick and choose from in this game.

I just don’t know why people can’t find stuff to keep them interested and engaged.

I really like this game.

If you don’t like the game then you don’t like the game. You might have to look elsewhere. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Eddard.2930:

There is sooooo much stuff to pick and choose from in this game.

I just don’t know why people can’t find stuff to keep them interested and engaged.

I really like this game.

If you don’t like the game then you don’t like the game. You might have to look elsewhere. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Yeah same. Some people are searching for PvP with other players. Seems none of them has ever stayed in EB JP for 5 mins. There’s a lot to do. I always go in JP and kill people or get killed. It’s ultra fun out there

Eddard.2930:

There is sooooo much stuff to pick and choose from in this game.

I just don’t know why people can’t find stuff to keep them interested and engaged.

I really like this game.

If you don’t like the game then you don’t like the game. You might have to look elsewhere. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Because, while there are plenty of extrinsic rewards, there are very few intrinsic rewards. It’s only fun to grind your legendary or exotic gear for so long, and then you look at it and say, “why the hell did I bother doing this?” And then you realize, the content in this game is very rarely fun or challenging past level 40.

Vayne.8563:

Lying is not something that’s subjective, it’s objective, because it implies intent. You can’t lie accidentally. So you can say they didn’t do what they said they would, without using the word lie. Language is actually my business. i

It’s why I’m so sensitive to it.

This is not entirely accurate because if someone believes what another lied about and the person repeats the lie but doesn’t know it’s a lie, he’s doing so accidentally. A lie can be accidentally done and happens a lot in the online world. The reason is because of beliefs, nothing else. A belief can be a lie.

clay.7849:

Eddard.2930:

There is sooooo much stuff to pick and choose from in this game.

I just don’t know why people can’t find stuff to keep them interested and engaged.

I really like this game.

If you don’t like the game then you don’t like the game. You might have to look elsewhere. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Because, while there are plenty of extrinsic rewards, there are very few intrinsic rewards. It’s only fun to grind your legendary or exotic gear for so long, and then you look at it and say, “why the hell did I bother doing this?” And then you realize, the content in this game is very rarely fun or challenging past level 40.

Well, I respect your opinion. I don’t grind legendaries or exotics because I find it boring.

So I do the other stuff – and there are tons and tons of other things to do. I just don’t get it.

Honestly, this is not a flame. I really don’t get it.

Are there any things that you would add that would make the game (or any MMO) more diverse and engaging at end-game? This is an honest question: what things could any company do with any MMO at end-game that GW2 doesn’t already do?

Edit: If you could come up with a concrete, well thought out answer to this question you would make millions of dollars.

Morena.9604:

*If you like gear progression… this game isn’t for you
*If you like playing a certain role in trinity… this game isn’t for you
*If you like raids… this game isn’t for you
*If you like mounts… this game isn’t for you
*If you like amateur pvp with different modes… this game isn’t for you
*If you like semi-amateur pvp with ladders etc like wow… this game isn’t for you
*If you like pro-pvp like moba… this game isn’t for you
*If you like real open world pvp… this game isn’t for you
*Most importantly if you like to have a goal… this game isn’t for you

1) We have gear progression, just not WoW tiered style
2) If you mean challenging large-scale fight, yes. World bosses are cool though but agree on this point.
3) True but important to mention Waypoints as a faster form of travel than you can do in other games
4) PvP is growing, making sure that every mode works as intended before adding more. Going to have to disagree with this after the addition of the newest maps with unique objectives to just conquest.
5) No clue what moba is so can’t comment and I don’t do pro-pvp
6) WvW took open world pvp to the next level, putting standard world pvp to shame in my opinion.
7) I try to be nice and open to thing but had to laugh at no goals. Need to change the wording on that because there are a million and one goals in this game

Just wanted to put my input in as we’re all welcome to our own opinions.

jblade.6470:

Morena.9604:

*If you like gear progression… this game isn’t for you
*If you like playing a certain role in trinity… this game isn’t for you
*If you like raids… this game isn’t for you
*If you like mounts… this game isn’t for you
*If you like amateur pvp with different modes… this game isn’t for you
*If you like semi-amateur pvp with ladders etc like wow… this game isn’t for you
*If you like pro-pvp like moba… this game isn’t for you
*If you like real open world pvp… this game isn’t for you
*Most importantly if you like to have a goal… this game isn’t for you

1) We have gear progression, just not WoW tiered style
2) If you mean challenging large-scale fight, yes. World bosses are cool though but agree on this point.
3) True but important to mention Waypoints as a faster form of travel than you can do in other games
4) PvP is growing, making sure that every mode works as intended before adding more. Going to have to disagree with this after the addition of the newest maps with unique objectives to just conquest.
5) No clue what moba is so can’t comment and I don’t do pro-pvp
6) WvW took open world pvp to the next level, putting standard world pvp to shame in my opinion.
7) I try to be nice and open to thing but had to laugh at no goals. Need to change the wording on that because there are a million and one goals in this game

Just wanted to put my input in as we’re all welcome to our own opinions.

> Doesn’t know what a moba is
>Thinks this games pvp community is growing.

Fyi mate, the moba Lol has one of the most professional esports scene round atm with 5 million active players, you know the esports that GW2 was abvertised as?

You realise that this games pv kitten hrinking not growing, do you realise that there are 2 pro NA teams and like 3 pro EU teams, there are no paid tournaments, sponsorships, an average of 200 viewers on twitch.

You know twitch the website used to stream gaming, runscape has something like an average of 500 viewers and lol an average of 100k viewers and Wow an average of 20k players.

Eddard.2930:

clay.7849:

Eddard.2930:

There is sooooo much stuff to pick and choose from in this game.

I just don’t know why people can’t find stuff to keep them interested and engaged.

I really like this game.

If you don’t like the game then you don’t like the game. You might have to look elsewhere. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Because, while there are plenty of extrinsic rewards, there are very few intrinsic rewards. It’s only fun to grind your legendary or exotic gear for so long, and then you look at it and say, “why the hell did I bother doing this?” And then you realize, the content in this game is very rarely fun or challenging past level 40.

Well, I respect your opinion. I don’t grind legendaries or exotics because I find it boring.

So I do the other stuff – and there are tons and tons of other things to do. I just don’t get it.

Honestly, this is not a flame. I really don’t get it.

Are there any things that you would add that would make the game (or any MMO) more diverse and engaging at end-game? This is an honest question: what things could any company do with any MMO at end-game that GW2 doesn’t already do?

Edit: If you could come up with a concrete, well thought out answer to this question you would make millions of dollars.

GW1 made their millions answering that question: great PvP.

I didn’t take it as a flame at all. But I generally enjoyed the “adventure” of GW1. Instances were great. Forming parties, a band of heroes, to do things like cap elites, go to epic hardcore content like UW or FoW, and even doing thing like interesting solo farms like solo FoW or IDS farm or even running droks. I found all these amazing fun and created a much better community because it bred much more interaction between players.

This game shines best leveling and doing DE’s not because your guild mate said it but because you and a few others found yourself in a predicament and helped each other to victory. More of that please.

Do not forget

*If you like to have challenge in pve, this game is not for you
*If you like Theorycraft, this game is not for you
*If you want to be the best with your class, this game is not for you

lekyii.9856:

Do not forget

If you like to have challenge in pve, this game is not for you

I see so your fractal 40+ what about 30+? Because if your not then you know nothing about what challenges are.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Morena.9604:

*If you like gear progression… this game isn’t for you
*If you like playing a certain role in trinity… this game isn’t for you
*If you like raids… this game isn’t for you
*If you like mounts… this game isn’t for you
*If you like amateur pvp with different modes… this game isn’t for you
*If you like semi-amateur pvp with ladders etc like wow… this game isn’t for you
*If you like pro-pvp like moba… this game isn’t for you
*If you like real open world pvp… this game isn’t for you
*Most importantly if you like to have a goal… this game isn’t for you

‘this game isn’t for you’ is a common reply to many posts and it is sadly and actually a true reply for the most posts. I really believe that devs prepared this game for a really specific(even unique) type of a player base.

There is plenty of gear progression: White->blue->green->yellow->orange->Pink->Purple, there is more progression in this game and it takes longer then most games on the market. If you want gear progression then this is the ultimate game for you!

If you strictly like only 3 roles then I guess this game isn’t for you, but Gw2 has 4-5 unique roles that greatly expand the trinity system. We still have straight up DPS, always a classic. Instead of tanks we have defensive buffers. Classes that offer defensive boons to their party. We have offensive buffers. Builds that boost party damage by sharing offensive boons. We have control players. Players that debuff enemies and disable them. We have Utility players who use a variety of banners/shouts/traps, etc to provide unikittenfects to the group. There are more roles in this game then many classic MMO’s, but it certainly is in no way shape or form roleless like you are implying. So if you like diverse and meaningful roles then this game is certainly for you.

If you like raids then this game is most certainly for you. There are huge world bosses that require 20-30 people. There are guild missions which require 50+ people. There are small tightly focused dungeons that require 5 people. They are still adding things, but the raiding environment is slowly becoming more and more prevalent as time goes on. Once they finish revamping the world bosses this game will have more relevant raids then any other game around.

I can’t say I’ve ever met anyone that played a game solely for mounts? Why would that even be a motivation to play a game? I don’t understand this statement…

I’m not going to comment on PvP because I haven’t done enough of it to say one way or the other with any meaningful opinion.

There are more goals in this game then any game I have ever played. Map completion is rewarded, completing all the jumping puzzles is rewarded. Getting the highest cultural armor is rewarded. Getting a legendary is rewarded. WvW armor. PvP rank. Unique skins. Fractal progression. Achievements. I’ve played over 600 hours and still only have about half my goals done and they just keep adding more. If you like having long term goals then this game is your dream come true!

So basically nothing you said is actually true…

DONT even try compare raiding with Group Events, theres no tactics no skill in group events its only zerg fest everywhere, not in a 1000 years you can compare raiding with group events.

lekyii.9856:

DONT even try compare raiding with Group Events, theres no tactics no skill in group events its only zerg fest everywhere, not in a 1000 years you can compare raiding with group events.

Oh I dunno, it pretty much matches up the times I’d been party to Plane of Time raids.

If you like to be a Ranger, this game isn’t for you. XD

But still play a ranger, it builds character in other ways than levels. xD

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

If you like to be a Ranger, this game isn’t for you. XD

But still play a ranger, it builds character in other ways than levels. xD

I have not played a game in which rangers got proper respect, mostly due to being more than a little gimmicky and not the best at what they can do. However, they’re decent enough to be interesting to me.

Jski.6180:

lekyii.9856:

Do not forget

If you like to have challenge in pve, this game is not for you

I see so your fractal 40+ what about 30+? Because if your not then you know nothing about what challenges are.

Right now im fractal 41 and yes is not hard, it takes time but is always the same from lvl 3 or 4 but with more mobs theres no new abilitys from bosses all the same.

Jjust because it takes longer, does not mean it is harder

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

lekyii.9856:

DONT even try compare raiding with Group Events, theres no tactics no skill in group events its only zerg fest everywhere, not in a 1000 years you can compare raiding with group events.

Oh I dunno, it pretty much matches up the times I’d been party to Plane of Time raids.

i dunno what raids have you done, but staying in the same place for 5m and just tapping 1 is not raiding m8.

lekyii.9856:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

lekyii.9856:

DONT even try compare raiding with Group Events, theres no tactics no skill in group events its only zerg fest everywhere, not in a 1000 years you can compare raiding with group events.

Oh I dunno, it pretty much matches up the times I’d been party to Plane of Time raids.

i dunno what raids have you done, but staying in the same place for 5m and just tapping 1 is not raiding m8.

Plane of Time. That’s EverQuest: Planes of Power, for the record your honor, which was very much “a raid”. Before World of Warcraft, mind you. I haven’t touched WoW because I got my fill of “raids” in EQ1.

And that raid was often “stand here and drop Complete Heal on the main tank for as long as you can and call when your mana hits 20% so the next cleric can step in”.

Or, if I was on my ranger “keep shooting arrows, don’t draw aggro, and when we say so pop Trueshot Discipline and burn him down fast”.

lekyii.9856:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

lekyii.9856:

DONT even try compare raiding with Group Events, theres no tactics no skill in group events its only zerg fest everywhere, not in a 1000 years you can compare raiding with group events.

Oh I dunno, it pretty much matches up the times I’d been party to Plane of Time raids.

i dunno what raids have you done, but staying in the same place for 5m and just tapping 1 is not raiding m8.

I used to be a Tank Healer and a DPSer. I used 4 buttons most of the time, with another 3 situational skills. I’d occasionally move out of bad stuff.

In terms of the World Events, the problem there is that the scaling has an upper limit, and the amount of people participating exceeds that limit (among other things).

Try doing The Shatterer with just 10 people. Much more fun.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Try doing The Shatterer with just 10 people. Much more fun.

It is considerably more fun. This no longer happens with the chest changes, though.

Also I understand the “Three-man Claw of Jormag fight” on one server was hilariously bad/good fun.

lekyii.9856:

Jski.6180:

lekyii.9856:

Do not forget

If you like to have challenge in pve, this game is not for you

I see so your fractal 40+ what about 30+? Because if your not then you know nothing about what challenges are.

Right now im fractal 41 and yes is not hard, it takes time but is always the same from lvl 3 or 4 but with more mobs theres no new abilitys from bosses all the same.

Jjust because it takes longer, does not mean it is harder

It kind of dose because it take more work to do. There more chase that you will mess up. If your as far as you say you are then you know at 40+ you must play a realty well with a team or you will not be able to beat the maw.

Prepared.9156:

Vayne.8563:

Lying is not something that’s subjective, it’s objective, because it implies intent. You can’t lie accidentally. So you can say they didn’t do what they said they would, without using the word lie. Language is actually my business. i

It’s why I’m so sensitive to it.

This is not entirely accurate because if someone believes what another lied about and the person repeats the lie but doesn’t know it’s a lie, he’s doing so accidentally. A lie can be accidentally done and happens a lot in the online world. The reason is because of beliefs, nothing else. A belief can be a lie.

Sorry but no. Lying implies intent. If you’re saying something you believe to be true, you’re not lying. You are simply mistaken.

If I believe it’s 5 o’clock and a I say that, bu it’s really six, I didn’t lie. I made a mistake. This is really simple English. I earned my living as an editor, and I’m not just guessing here. You can’t just say someone is lying because they got something wrong, no matter how much you don’t like it. It’s bad use of the language. At very least you’re mistaken, but in most cases, what you have here is people using the word lie as a way to try to express their feelings.

Unless someone has proof of intent to mislead, something no one here does, than lying is at best an assumption. But the fact that a manifesto isn’t a guarantee of features of a statement of intent means that even if nothing in the manifesto came true, it still wouldn’t be a lie.

And no, this isn’t opinion, what I’ve written above is complete fact.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Also, I’d like to add that if you like housing and a detailed and flexible cosmetic outfit system, this game isn’t for you.

Except that most games don’t launch with either of these things and it’s almost always added after the fact. And probably will be added to this game.

Anyway it’s still not completely true. I like housing and a detailed cosmetic outfit system and this game is still for me. What you’re really saying is, if the game isn’t for you, is that your need for playing housing and a better cosmetic outfit system is so strong that it ruins everything else in the game.