Guild Wars 2

Rieselle.5079:

“If you like basketball, this game isnt for you.”

You can take a laundry list of any random features and apply to any random game and come up with a bunch of stuff it doesnt do. Kinda pointless.

I like basketball.

leaves

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

The developers were quite specific in the manifesto video what they meant by grind. It’s not their fault that specificity was omitted or ignored when the word was circulated. They called simplistic combat systems found in older MMOs a grind. They said in older MMOs you had to go through the “boring grind” before you got to the “fun stuff”.

I keep hearing how the devs promised “no grinding for gear” yet there was nothing in the manifesto about gear.

Ishiga.6053:

I was just reading a short thread about someone getting bored with the lack of gear grind.

I smiled a bit inside.

Not everyone has the composure to farm the same banal content over and over until they have the bestest best baubles and lord it over people.

this is not the reason you raid. if this was your one and only reason to raid in any game that had raiding, you missed the point entirely

This game is for people that want to be on primarily equal footing.

no this game is for people who want a very relaxed game with easy attainable goals and no severe advantages to those with more time vs. those with less time. at no time will you be on equal footing to me especially since we do not know each others’ economic situations or how much the two of us can pump into this game money wise for endless gold as an example.

Take myself for example. I’m a tried and true “medium-core” gamer. I love a nice complex system and a few long-term goals to work toward but especially difficult content or unfriendly people cripplingly frustrate me. I can’t stand dungeons due to the incessant number of overpowered damage dealing "whatever"s, I’d be WILLING to try fractals if the elitists weren’t hoarding all the parties, that sort of thing.

this where it becomes contradictory. the majority of the game is very easy. the only challenge in this game are explorable dungeons and fractals. gamers need challenge. without challenge, the game stagnates faster.

in fact i know of no other mmorpg where – on any class – it’s an hour or less per level to max. maybe star trek online.

those ‘elitists’ are not, and this goes back to my point about raids.

And it turns out I don’t have to do things that way, I can get my gear for the most part from other content to get in a better spot and THEN try some of that harder content again IF I choose.

I’m happy for that personally. This game IS for me.

you’re right, the game in this manner IS geared for you because it makes the acquisition of gear meaningless beyond the cosmetic. once you have full exotics at 80 there is nothing else out there that will give you a meaningful increase in power.

and this may hurt the game long term. my lenghty friends list is almost completely empty now. they like the game, but they have nothing left to do. if the game didnt allow even a super casual hit 80 in less than 80 hours and if it wasn’t so easy to get in full exotics just a few days after 80 more players would have an incentive to continue playing. being an alt-aholic is actually not a normal behavior for mmorpg players – the majority of players have one favorite character they wish to stick with. if the game offers no further progression, they have a choice – play something else or leave.

Behellagh.1468:

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

The developers were quite specific in the manifesto video what they meant by grind. It’s not their fault that specificity was omitted or ignored when the word was circulated. They called simplistic combat systems found in older MMOs a grind. They said in older MMOs you had to go through the “boring grind” before you got to the “fun stuff”.

I keep hearing how the devs promised “no grinding for gear” yet there was nothing in the manifesto about gear.

Some quotes from the video starting from the beginning:

“…and if you hate MMOs you’ll REALLY wanna check out GW2.” (Implying that the typical things players hate about MMO’s would not be present).

“We take everything you love about GW1 and put it in a persistent world…” (One of THE MAIN things about GW1 was a hard level cap and very easy to obtain end game gear. In fact, that’s the only thing about GW1’s PvE that was truly unique to the game. In fact, what else could you name that they could be talking about?)

“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.” (Pure marketing talk or lies, one of the two).

“We do not want to build the same MMO that everyone else is building.” (This was related to the personal story directly, but it’s more enforcement that this game is really meant for the non-typical MMO players).

defrule.7236:

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

the removal of the trinity itself is meaningless. technically the secret world has no trinity, but people select those roles in order to do group based content. defiance has no trinity, but it does have open world pvp (shadow war) and 50+ man pve content (arkfalls)

what is not meaningless is the lack of single and multi-group content and the lack of in-game tools to form and organize said groups.

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

The developers were quite specific in the manifesto video what they meant by grind. It’s not their fault that specificity was omitted or ignored when the word was circulated. They called simplistic combat systems found in older MMOs a grind. They said in older MMOs you had to go through the “boring grind” before you got to the “fun stuff”.

I keep hearing how the devs promised “no grinding for gear” yet there was nothing in the manifesto about gear.

Some quotes from the video starting from the beginning:

“…and if you hate MMOs you’ll REALLY wanna check out GW2.” (Implying that the typical things players hate about MMO’s would not be present).

“We take everything you love about GW1 and put it in a persistent world…” (One of THE MAIN things about GW1 was a hard level cap and very easy to obtain end game gear. In fact, that’s the only thing about GW1’s PvE that was truly unique to the game. In fact, what else could you name that they could be talking about?)

“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.” (Pure marketing talk or lies when talking about ascended gear, one of the two).

“We do not want to build the same MMO that everyone else is building.” (This was related to the personal story directly, but it’s more enforcement that this game is really meant for the non-typical MMO players).

there is no grind in this game. i came to this game with no large guild only 2 friends and the wife of one of them. my first 80 was 80 in 72 hours played and full exotic gear 4 days after that – all crafted myself. my 2nd 80 was level 80 in 56 hours played (a mesmer btw, first was a ranger) and again full exotic gear less than a week after, all crafted myself.

my third 80 since one of my friends sucked me back into the game this week will be in the same boat as that mesmer, and im not using any of the resources gained on the other two to give it an advantage.

the game has a grind if you refuse to craft, refuse to gather and want to just purchase everything with gold from the trading post. the ‘grinding’ i did was about an hour each day on trolls. that’s not a ‘grind’. i can point to 2342q65263423432 korean games that have real grinds. even the daily and rep system in mists of pandaria are an actual grind compared to this game.

this game gives you all it’s going to give you very early and very quickly. only legendaries require effort and time – as they should – but are still 100% soloable. you need zero help from anyone or any guild to make a legendary in this game.

no, this game does not have a grind. too many of you younger mmorpg players simply want it all, want it right now and will not take no for an answer. you folks have forgotten the everquest level grind. the everquest skill grinds. the everquest crafting grinds. the daoc realm rank grind. the daoc crafting grinds. the swg holocron grind. those were grinds.

this is nothing. there’s more of a grind in ranking up a soldier in battlefield 3 than this game has in any of it’s aspects.

Geikamir.6329:

“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.” (Pure marketing talk or lies when talking about ascended gear, one of the two)

Once again you took it out of context. The entire quote in context.

“‘I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung it again.’ That’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.”

It about the combat system. Whether they are talking about the lack of rooting, the dodge mechanic/AOE hint, the interactions between the various weapon skills, the ability to swap weapons on the fly in combat, the lack of the standard MMO trinity or all of the above, the point being it’s not just standing still spamming your attack while depending on others to keep you alive. THEY, the devs, defined combat in other MMOs as grindy. It’s YOU who chose to read what you wanted by “sound biting” that one line.

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

Geikamir.6329:

Behellagh.1468:

People have different definitions of grind and fun. They assume the devs have the same definitions as they do. Those who are upset ignored the context where those words were used in the manifesto (in reference to quests and combat).

Well if the terms are subjective then if I think they are a lie, they genuinely are lies (to me) right? If the terms are objective, then what is their predefined definition?

Why use subjective terms to market for any other reason except to be able to back peddle when the bottom line needs it?

The developers were quite specific in the manifesto video what they meant by grind. It’s not their fault that specificity was omitted or ignored when the word was circulated. They called simplistic combat systems found in older MMOs a grind. They said in older MMOs you had to go through the “boring grind” before you got to the “fun stuff”.

I keep hearing how the devs promised “no grinding for gear” yet there was nothing in the manifesto about gear.

Some quotes from the video starting from the beginning:

“…and if you hate MMOs you’ll REALLY wanna check out GW2.” (Implying that the typical things players hate about MMO’s would not be present).

“We take everything you love about GW1 and put it in a persistent world…” (One of THE MAIN things about GW1 was a hard level cap and very easy to obtain end game gear. In fact, that’s the only thing about GW1’s PvE that was truly unique to the game. In fact, what else could you name that they could be talking about?)

“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2.” (Pure marketing talk or lies, one of the two).

“We do not want to build the same MMO that everyone else is building.” (This was related to the personal story directly, but it’s more enforcement that this game is really meant for the non-typical MMO players).

I do hate other MMOs and I do think this MMO is MUCh better than others. Why? Because of the lack of kill stealing and node stealing, for one thing. The quest system in most MMOs, which I can’t stand. The level process which does require you to do a lot of bullkitten before having fun. I had fun from a very low level in Guild Wars 1. There are very few MMOs that give you events like the Shadow Behemoth in a starting zone.

YOU claim the main thing is the 20 level cap. I don’t think that’s a main thing. It was never a main thing for me. What was the main thing for me was that I could play the game and enjoy it and not think about leveling at all, unlike most MMOs. And guess what? I play Guild Wars 2 exactly the same way. I don’t think about level at all. That’s a choice, not something that Anet betrayed anyone on. Not like you get to max level and suddenly you can raid and PvP.

We don’t want player to grind in Guild Wars 2. This is perhaps the most disingenuous part of your entire post. A single line taken out of context, used to prove a totally fallacious point. Take the entire paragraph, read it and then tell me that line explains the paragraph. Colin is talking about combat grind, or grinding to level. Killing stuff to level. He’s talking about changing the way that people view combat. He’s NOT talking about grinding for gear, and no one with even the most basic grasp of the English language could construe that he was, if you take the entire post into account.

We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building. And they haven’t…for numerous reasons. It’s very different from many MMOs, so different many people try it and can’t figure out what to do. The breadcrumb trail found in almost every MMO is not there, the standard quests are largely gone and people are lost. If it was the same as every MMO people wouldn’t be lost.

This is simply an opinion stated as fact, but you know, I watched the same manifesto you did and have a completely different opinion. And your argument would be a lot more sympathetic if you didn’t take one major part of your diatribe out of context. It makes me question everything about all your other claims.

….This game isn’t for you if you like to be good….

Let’s be serious, this game is very crude in that the reward system is based on senseless killing. Acting selfishly is highly rewarding too. With that as it’s core values, no wonder the social aspects are so weak.

I’m all for smash and bash in a game but, I’ve never experienced a game that felt this off about it.

DeWolfe.2174:

….This game isn’t for you if you like to be good….

Let’s be serious, this game is very crude in that the reward system is based on senseless killing. Acting selfishly is highly rewarding too. With that as it’s core values, no wonder the social aspects are so weak.

I’m all for smash and bash in a game but, I’ve never experienced a game that felt this off about it.

For me, the aesthetic of the game has changed from cooperative MMO to cooperative loot treadmill. The game simply insists loot dangling tactics. Rewards are nice and all, but to be honest it’s hard for me to enjoy the game for the gameplay when the game itself does its best to assign value to every minutia of input. It feels like I’m doing data entry rather than playing a videogame.

All this game needs, are factions where I can world pvp all day killing b*****$ everywhere in enemy territory. With or without incentives. Incentives would be cool though.

All this structured and zergfest pvp is bleh.

I don’t really know what this thread is about besides an opportunity for people to back-and-forth about everything in the game all in one place. It’s like a microcosm of the entire General forum.

TwoBit.5903:

It feels like I’m doing data entry rather than playing a videogame.

This is why I avoided EvE Online for the longest amount of time. Well, that and it’s reputation.

For me, the aesthetic of the game has changed from cooperative MMO to cooperative loot treadmill. The game simply insists loot dangling tactics. Rewards are nice and all, but to be honest it’s hard for me to enjoy the game for the gameplay when the game itself does its best to assign value to every minutia of input.

I find the aesthetic of the game is more “semi steampunk fantasy” and “high fantasy” with a twist of strange artistic choices. Though I find it very stunningly beautiful in a lot of places, hauntingly beautiful in some . . .

. . . huh? Not what you meant? Oh you meant the design aesthetic.

Yeah, I don’t see how it’s that different than launch. To note, there was always a looming feeling of “what do you do once you hit 80?” going on, and the answers were generally “I dunno, what do you want to do?” from the developers. They left a lot of stuff you could do, but not that much you couldn’t already have been doing.

I mean, there was Arah. But wow, I’m almost glad I never wanted to go so now the rejection due to being a ranger isn’t crushing.

There really isn’t that much to do once you hit the cap. And it’s worth noting, in Prophecies . . . there wasn’t much to do either. Factions and Nightfall had Hard Mode available, and some challenging dungeons (though they didn’t call them that) you could do.

Anyway, I’m glad this game isn’t for me. I can enjoy it a lot more knowing that.

Vayne.8563:

I do hate other MMOs and I do think this MMO is MUCh better than others. Why? Because of the lack of kill stealing and node stealing, for one thing. The quest system in most MMOs, which I can’t stand. The level process which does require you to do a lot of bullkitten before having fun. I had fun from a very low level in Guild Wars 1. There are very few MMOs that give you events like the Shadow Behemoth in a starting zone.

YOU claim the main thing is the 20 level cap. I don’t think that’s a main thing. It was never a main thing for me. What was the main thing for me was that I could play the game and enjoy it and not think about leveling at all, unlike most MMOs. And guess what? I play Guild Wars 2 exactly the same way. I don’t think about level at all. That’s a choice, not something that Anet betrayed anyone on. Not like you get to max level and suddenly you can raid and PvP.

We don’t want player to grind in Guild Wars 2. This is perhaps the most disingenuous part of your entire post. A single line taken out of context, used to prove a totally fallacious point. Take the entire paragraph, read it and then tell me that line explains the paragraph. Colin is talking about combat grind, or grinding to level. Killing stuff to level. He’s talking about changing the way that people view combat. He’s NOT talking about grinding for gear, and no one with even the most basic grasp of the English language could construe that he was, if you take the entire post into account.

We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building. And they haven’t…for numerous reasons. It’s very different from many MMOs, so different many people try it and can’t figure out what to do. The breadcrumb trail found in almost every MMO is not there, the standard quests are largely gone and people are lost. If it was the same as every MMO people wouldn’t be lost.

This is simply an opinion stated as fact, but you know, I watched the same manifesto you did and have a completely different opinion. And your argument would be a lot more sympathetic if you didn’t take one major part of your diatribe out of context. It makes me question everything about all your other claims.

First, I didn’t take anything out of context. He said that, I quoted that, I replied to that. In parenthesis did I put words in his mouth? No.

About GW1: So you can name just ONE thing he could have been talking about that just you liked and you think that constitutes saying “We take everything you love about GW1 and put it in a persistent world”? And implying that doesn’t even take max gear at level 20 is definitely trying to twist the truth to fit your argument. GW1’s only remarkable things in PvE were very specifically connected to how fast you got to the stat plateau. Period.

They started off building a different MMO that everyone else was building and then progressively (starting in about November) have when through the same process. What do other MMO’s have that “people that hate MMO’s” would not enjoy? One of the main ones is gear grind. And that’s exactly what ascended gear is. Another one is questing. And that’s exactly what hearts are.

Here are some quotes that are not talking about combat at all but specifically about loot. There is nothing skewed or taken out of context. These are the full quotes. These quotes are what we were led to believe. This is how they marketed the game to us. If they didn’t want us to believe something different from their “intentions” they should have worded it completely differently. As it’s written here, it’s says one thing and they did something else entirely with ascended gear.

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Geikamir.6329:

First, I didn’t take anything out of context. He said that, I quoted that, I replied to that. In parenthesis did I put words in his mouth? No.

About GW1: So you can name just ONE thing he could have been talking about that just you liked and you think that constitutes saying “We take everything you love about GW1 and put it in a persistent world”? And implying that doesn’t even take max gear at level 20 is definitely trying to twist the truth to fit your argument. GW1’s only remarkable things in PvE were very specifically connected to how fast you got to the stat plateau. Period.

They started off building a different MMO that everyone else was building and then progressively (starting in about November) have when through the same process. What do other MMO’s have that “people that hate MMO’s” would not enjoy? One of the main ones is gear grind. And that’s exactly what ascended gear is. Another one is questing. And that’s exactly what hearts are.

Snip

“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success/

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Taking a sentence out of a paragraph, and using that sentence without the paragraph is the VERY definition of taking something out of context. The rest of the paragraph IS the context. It’s very clear what he’s talking about. I’m not the only one here who’s pointed this out. English is a very funny language. Take away the rest of what’s being said and things can be made to sound like other things.

Colin was CLEARLY talking about making combat fun instead of grinding mobs like you have to do in so many MMOs. In fact the very line after "We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2 is “Not one enjoys it, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.” What part of “people view combat” makes you believe he’s talking about gear grind. Learn the language.

There are plenty of things about this game that I like that are reminiscent of Guild Wars 1. For example, Guild Wars 1 never had a true trinity and I never rolled with a tank. For example, healing was never as important as protection and I like that a lot better. In most games, you need to think healing, not protection.

In fact, I play this game very much the way I played Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 1 was a game made for explorers also. Hell, Trahearne is the same exact annoying NPC they’ve had in almost every game since the start of Guild Wars. You don’t see a similarity between Trahearne and Komir? lol

I don’t feel the gear grind or progession in this game because like in Guild Wars 1, I just play and stuff comes to me.

And yeah there are changes. A marketplace instead of spamming my wares in Kamada all day, underwater combat, which I love, actual cities (which arguably Guild Wars didn’t have until Kaineng Center and never had again). Not to mention Charr, Asura and Norn are all in both Guild Wars and here and I like them in both games.

But seriously, I don’t feel the differences between Guild Wars 1 and this game that you feel. I really don’t. Because I choose to play this game in the same way and it works. If you’re choosing to play it another way, no one can help you.

As for your other quotes, people keep talking about the manifesto. I’m not saying nothing has changed. Two paragraphs from two interviews, repeated a zillion times is not the change of intent everyone has made it out to be. Content isn’t gated behind gear like it is in other games and you can play this game quite easily without ascended gear. In fact, on most of my characters I do. The compromise Anet made with ascended gear is just that, a compromise. It only changes the game in your head.

Wait this game doesn’t have gear progression? Granted it’s nothing on the scale that other MMO’s have, but gear progression and the grind associated with it are still very present in this game.

Harbinger.9645:

Wait this game doesn’t have gear progression? Granted it’s nothing on the scale that other MMO’s have, but gear progression and the grind associated with it are still very present in this game.

There is a huge difference between gear progression and REQUIRED gear grind. That’s the point.

Guild Wars 1 had gear progression too. You could have a top tier weapon with max stats or without it. With plus 29 health or plus 30 health. Not every max level weapon was equal.

Not to mention, even before ascended gear, there were already tiers of gear in Guild Wars 2, much like GW 1. Rare, exotic, same level of gear, different stats. That’s gear progression.

I think a lot of people played Guild Wars 1 and didn’t play a lot of other MMOs. Anyone who says this is turning into WoW really hasn’t spent much time in WoW. The content isn’t gated. The higher levels of fractals DO require ascended gear, which you get for free for doing fractals. But you can see everything the fractals has to offer without ever getting ascended gear at all.

Dungeons aren’t gated. No one needs ascended gear to do dungeons. You don’t even need exotics.

Yes, the difference between gear you need to grind for isn’t cosmetic in Guild Wars 2, that’s true. But it doesn’t change the fact that the game doesn’t require you to grind for any of it. You can play through the content without grind if that’s what you choose to do. It’s certainly what I choose to do.

Vayne.8563:

Harbinger.9645:

Wait this game doesn’t have gear progression? Granted it’s nothing on the scale that other MMO’s have, but gear progression and the grind associated with it are still very present in this game.

There is a huge difference between gear progression and REQUIRED gear grind. That’s the point.

Guild Wars 1 had gear progression too. You could have a top tier weapon with max stats or without it. With plus 29 health or plus 30 health. Not every max level weapon was equal.

Not to mention, even before ascended gear, there were already tiers of gear in Guild Wars 2, much like GW 1. Rare, exotic, same level of gear, different stats. That’s gear progression.

I think a lot of people played Guild Wars 1 and didn’t play a lot of other MMOs. Anyone who says this is turning into WoW really hasn’t spent much time in WoW. The content isn’t gated. The higher levels of fractals DO require ascended gear, which you get for free for doing fractals. But you can see everything the fractals has to offer without ever getting ascended gear at all.

Dungeons aren’t gated. No one needs ascended gear to do dungeons. You don’t even need exotics.

Yes, the difference between gear you need to grind for isn’t cosmetic in Guild Wars 2, that’s true. But it doesn’t change the fact that the game doesn’t require you to grind for any of it. You can play through the content without grind if that’s what you choose to do. It’s certainly what I choose to do.

Just because there isn’t content for max gear doesn’t mean anything except that this game is way too easy.

I mean, why even have exotic gear if there isn’t anything that makes it necessary?

clay.7849:

Just because there isn’t content for max gear doesn’t mean anything except that this game is way too easy.

I mean, why even have exotic gear if there isn’t anything that makes it necessary?

Because there are people who like to min/max and go into farm mode on certain pieces of content. For them, there is an opportunity to move up to a slightly more powerful set of gear, as they’re doing their other activities.

Vayne.8563:

Harbinger.9645:

Wait this game doesn’t have gear progression? Granted it’s nothing on the scale that other MMO’s have, but gear progression and the grind associated with it are still very present in this game.

There is a huge difference between gear progression and REQUIRED gear grind. That’s the point.

Guild Wars 1 had gear progression too. You could have a top tier weapon with max stats or without it. With plus 29 health or plus 30 health. Not every max level weapon was equal.

Not to mention, even before ascended gear, there were already tiers of gear in Guild Wars 2, much like GW 1. Rare, exotic, same level of gear, different stats. That’s gear progression.

I think a lot of people played Guild Wars 1 and didn’t play a lot of other MMOs. Anyone who says this is turning into WoW really hasn’t spent much time in WoW. The content isn’t gated. The higher levels of fractals DO require ascended gear, which you get for free for doing fractals. But you can see everything the fractals has to offer without ever getting ascended gear at all.

Dungeons aren’t gated. No one needs ascended gear to do dungeons. You don’t even need exotics.

Yes, the difference between gear you need to grind for isn’t cosmetic in Guild Wars 2, that’s true. But it doesn’t change the fact that the game doesn’t require you to grind for any of it. You can play through the content without grind if that’s what you choose to do. It’s certainly what I choose to do.

Great clarification and pretty much what I was saying too. There’s still gear progression, but it’s not required. It’s still pretty advisable to do so though…for instance in WvW, once you hit 80, you had better be grinding for exotics/ascended gear or you may quickly discover that you aren’t on a totally even playing field.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

Harbinger.9645:

Wait this game doesn’t have gear progression? Granted it’s nothing on the scale that other MMO’s have, but gear progression and the grind associated with it are still very present in this game.

There is a huge difference between gear progression and REQUIRED gear grind. That’s the point.

Guild Wars 1 had gear progression too. You could have a top tier weapon with max stats or without it. With plus 29 health or plus 30 health. Not every max level weapon was equal.

Not to mention, even before ascended gear, there were already tiers of gear in Guild Wars 2, much like GW 1. Rare, exotic, same level of gear, different stats. That’s gear progression.

I think a lot of people played Guild Wars 1 and didn’t play a lot of other MMOs. Anyone who says this is turning into WoW really hasn’t spent much time in WoW. The content isn’t gated. The higher levels of fractals DO require ascended gear, which you get for free for doing fractals. But you can see everything the fractals has to offer without ever getting ascended gear at all.

Dungeons aren’t gated. No one needs ascended gear to do dungeons. You don’t even need exotics.

Yes, the difference between gear you need to grind for isn’t cosmetic in Guild Wars 2, that’s true. But it doesn’t change the fact that the game doesn’t require you to grind for any of it. You can play through the content without grind if that’s what you choose to do. It’s certainly what I choose to do.

Just because there isn’t content for max gear doesn’t mean anything except that this game is way too easy.

I mean, why even have exotic gear if there isn’t anything that makes it necessary?

That’s a really good question. The answer is simple. A lot of people WANT stuff to work for. Look at all the people who feel they NEED BIS gear, even though they’re not running fractals. It’s not one or two, it’s a lot of them.

MMOs have always been about giving people stuff to do. There are a number of different ways to accomplish this, but a lot of it has always been pointless…unless you want the thing they’re offering you. Getting a black moa chick mini in Guild Wars 1 didn’t really do anything for you, at least not before the HoM kicked into gear, but people really enjoyed going for it.

Though I don’t need exotic gear, I still have it on most of my 80s. It’s something to do.

You know, I bought Tomb Raider recently and it’s a 12 hour game, maybe 14. I’ve spent a whole lot more time in Guild Wars 2. Why? Doing stuff. Not everything I want to do, you’ll want to do, which is why the company needs to provide different things for different people. I’ll never grind dungeon armor, ever. I don’t enjoy dungeons enough to care. I don’t like any of it enough to make it worth it.

But I’m working on a couple of legendary weapons.

clay.7849:

Just because there isn’t content for max gear doesn’t mean anything except that this game is way too easy.

I mean, why even have exotic gear if there isn’t anything that makes it necessary?

Because somewhere someone NEEDS to have the very, very best of everything to enjoy playing the game. And if some new gear comes out that is better than what they have they BETTER to be able to get it RIGHT NOW without requiring a new currency or to them the game has become an endless grind for gear which was promised in the manifesto to never happen.

Yes, that’s sarcasm if your detectors aren’t working today.

Morena.9604:

*If you like gear progression… this game isn’t for you
*If you like playing a certain role in trinity… this game isn’t for you
*If you like raids… this game isn’t for you
*If you like mounts… this game isn’t for you
*If you like amateur pvp with different modes… this game isn’t for you
*If you like semi-amateur pvp with ladders etc like wow… this game isn’t for you
*If you like pro-pvp like moba… this game isn’t for you
*If you like real open world pvp… this game isn’t for you
*Most importantly if you like to have a goal… this game isn’t for you

‘this game isn’t for you’ is a common reply to many posts and it is sadly and actually a true reply for the most posts. I really believe that devs prepared this game for a really specific(even unique) type of a player base.

-But there is gear progression, it is just on a much easier/smaller scale than most MMOs (hello ascended gear!). I like gear progression and I like this game.

-Agree to a point, they will never change to a trinity. I like the trinity and I think this game would of been better with it. However, I still enjoy this aspect as a change of pace from most MMOs.

-Agree, raids don’t fit into this game. However, people who like raids actually just want large, guild centered, challenging PvE content. Hello guild missions (just need a way for small guilds to compete).

-I suppose mounts won’t be added, but I see it as a much too tempting cash grab to not add them in. Everyone likes mounts when they are done right (no flying mounts).

-The funny thing about your PvP points is before the game was released Arenanet tried very hard to push the competitive aspect of it and it appears they still want to achieve that goal, so we will see. In addition, I think the open world PvPers can get their fix in WvW, it’s much the same thing with a little more organization.

I think your idea that Arenanet appealed this game to a certain “kind” of audience is completely unfounded and baffling to me. They want to appeal to as many people as they can, so they can make more money (I know shocking). This is a full on triple A MMO, this isn’t some kickstarter niche game. I think they made this game with many concepts that are outside the norm, but also kept many standard features with a few tweaks. This isn’t black and white, stop trying to turn it into an us against them (those that like GW2 and those that like the traditional MMOs). Shades of gray people, shades of gray.

Valenthor.4052:

I think your idea that Arenanet appealed this game to a certain “kind” of audience is completely unfounded and baffling to me. They want to appeal to as many people as they can, so they can make more money (I know shocking). This is a full on triple A MMO, this isn’t some kickstarter niche game. I think they made this game with many concepts that are outside the norm, but also kept many standard features with a few tweaks. This isn’t black and white, stop trying to turn it into an us against them (those that like GW2 and those that like the traditional MMOs). Shades of gray people, shades of gray.

There’s a reason why people feel it’s an us and them situation…and not an unreasonable one.

There are people, quite a few of us, who don’t like MMOs at all. I’ve always seen the potential of MMOs, but I’ve never found one I could play…until now. The reason people are so bent out of shape over gear progression is fear. Fear that this game will become like other games and will suddenly be out of reach for them. In a way, Anet themselves set this up by saying, “If you love MMOs you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2 and if you hate MMOs you’re REALLY want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

For some people this is the only playable MMO on the market right now. And every time Anet makes a change away from people’s “gold standard”, they take it personally.

I think too many people have been burned too many times to believe it won’t happen again.

Vayne.8563:

There’s a reason why people feel it’s an us and them situation…and not an unreasonable one.

There are people, quite a few of us, who don’t like MMOs at all. I’ve always seen the potential of MMOs, but I’ve never found one I could play…until now. The reason people are so bent out of shape over gear progression is fear. Fear that this game will become like other games and will suddenly be out of reach for them. In a way, Anet themselves set this up by saying, “If you love MMOs you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2 and if you hate MMOs you’re REALLY want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

For some people this is the only playable MMO on the market right now. And every time Anet makes a change away from people’s “gold standard”, they take it personally.

I think too many people have been burned too many times to believe it won’t happen again.

I agree with you, but it makes the small bit of empathy I have very sad for folks. It sounds like they are being driven out of enjoying the game they have, by their fears of what the game might become.

I still think that the OP in this thread was dead on, with his realization. Although the second half of that thread shifted into some crazy defensiveness, as always.

JaironKalach.4938:

Vayne.8563:

There’s a reason why people feel it’s an us and them situation…and not an unreasonable one.

There are people, quite a few of us, who don’t like MMOs at all. I’ve always seen the potential of MMOs, but I’ve never found one I could play…until now. The reason people are so bent out of shape over gear progression is fear. Fear that this game will become like other games and will suddenly be out of reach for them. In a way, Anet themselves set this up by saying, “If you love MMOs you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2 and if you hate MMOs you’re REALLY want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

For some people this is the only playable MMO on the market right now. And every time Anet makes a change away from people’s “gold standard”, they take it personally.

I think too many people have been burned too many times to believe it won’t happen again.

I agree with you, but it makes the small bit of empathy I have very sad for folks. It sounds like they are being driven out of enjoying the game they have, by their fears of what the game might become.

I still think that the OP in this thread was dead on, with his realization. Although the second half of that thread shifted into some crazy defensiveness, as always.

It may not sound like it, but I empathize with people do. I feel their fear. I just don’t believe it will get like other games. I don’t believe content will be gated. By the time you need gear to do something, Anet will make it so the gear is pretty easily available. That’s my belief. I’ve yet to see otherwise.

Vayne.8563:

Valenthor.4052:

I think your idea that Arenanet appealed this game to a certain “kind” of audience is completely unfounded and baffling to me. They want to appeal to as many people as they can, so they can make more money (I know shocking). This is a full on triple A MMO, this isn’t some kickstarter niche game. I think they made this game with many concepts that are outside the norm, but also kept many standard features with a few tweaks. This isn’t black and white, stop trying to turn it into an us against them (those that like GW2 and those that like the traditional MMOs). Shades of gray people, shades of gray.

There’s a reason why people feel it’s an us and them situation…and not an unreasonable one.

There are people, quite a few of us, who don’t like MMOs at all. I’ve always seen the potential of MMOs, but I’ve never found one I could play…until now. The reason people are so bent out of shape over gear progression is fear. Fear that this game will become like other games and will suddenly be out of reach for them. In a way, Anet themselves set this up by saying, “If you love MMOs you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2 and if you hate MMOs you’re REALLY want to check out Guild Wars 2.”

For some people this is the only playable MMO on the market right now. And every time Anet makes a change away from people’s “gold standard”, they take it personally.

I think too many people have been burned too many times to believe it won’t happen again.

First off, let’s not all get wrapped up in marketing spin and quotes made pre-release. It was fairly clear from beta that this wasn’t a totally new experience, but more of a different take on the standard MMO. Honestly, I don’t know how anyone can hate traditional MMOs and love this game. This game has much the same systems, except toned down to a more casual scale. Sounds to me more like a philosophical battle than a real gameplay problem for some people. Regardless, there is no reason to fear drastic change. They have a successful game here, that I am sure will be around for years to come. Nothing they have said or done shows a drastic departure from their “manifesto” (inc ascended gear QQers, sorry that wasn’t drastic). They aren’t going to upset the applecart to just suddenly make another WoW clone.

Behellagh.1468:

clay.7849:

Just because there isn’t content for max gear doesn’t mean anything except that this game is way too easy.

I mean, why even have exotic gear if there isn’t anything that makes it necessary?

Because somewhere someone NEEDS to have the very, very best of everything to enjoy playing the game. And if some new gear comes out that is better than what they have they BETTER to be able to get it RIGHT NOW without requiring a new currency or to them the game has become an endless grind for gear which was promised in the manifesto to never happen.

Yes, that’s sarcasm if your detectors aren’t working today.

Lol, ya I got the sarcasm.

I dunno, as a GW1 only player, I guess I don’t understand the need to have lots of different tiers of level 80 gear. I never minded just showing off with the cosmetics. No one else can see those damage numbers anyways lol.

Jski.6180:

lekyii.9856:

Jski.6180:

lekyii.9856:

Do not forget

If you like to have challenge in pve, this game is not for you

I see so your fractal 40+ what about 30+? Because if your not then you know nothing about what challenges are.

Right now im fractal 41 and yes is not hard, it takes time but is always the same from lvl 3 or 4 but with more mobs theres no new abilitys from bosses all the same.

Jjust because it takes longer, does not mean it is harder

It kind of dose because it take more work to do. There more chase that you will mess up. If your as far as you say you are then you know at 40+ you must play a realty well with a team or you will not be able to beat the maw.

I actually think that maw is one of the easy ones, fractals 40+ is only a problem if you encounter the lava dungeon the rest is not that hard.

clay.7849:

Lol, ya I got the sarcasm.

I dunno, as a GW1 only player, I guess I don’t understand the need to have lots of different tiers of level 80 gear. I never minded just showing off with the cosmetics. No one else can see those damage numbers anyways lol.

Remember, GW1 also had “tiers” of effectiveness. Only it manifested itself in titles, not gear.

Well most of the replies tell about the gear grind. There is gear grind but i think there is no gear ‘progression’.

Progression for me is the gear tiers you gather step by step which you need it to continue to the next tier of dungeon/raid or boss.

Some people say or think here that you raid for gear. But actually in GW2 you do content to reach the last tier gear.

The gear (in gear progression) is the needed gear to finish the content of the last big raid. You gather the gear during the journey/progression.

Here they made the gear as the last step.

DE’s sadly not even close to what raids are. If you compare DEs with raids, i say DEs fail too. But they are ok by themselves.

For the open world PvP, it has a special flavor. You gank or get ganked in front of dungeons, in home cities, in questing zones or you raid to the capitals etc… The excitement in that is something unique.

Here Pv kitten o seperated from the world and also no lore can establish a real link between them imo. You can’t even bring sPvP gear(which you need years to grind to rank 80) to L.A.

WvWvW has a different taste of course but not a substitude for real open world pvp. Also WvWvW has many problems. For me the most weak point is zergs. I tried casted healing aoe spells on enemy areas during every zerg to see if anyone may notice but no. And we won. You can cast AoE spells even if you dont know what they are.

Trinity, mounts, player houses i won’t say anything more for them because they are not here and no need to talk more.

sPvP and TPvP is the weakest point of GW2 today and it hurts me to talk about it. Time may change the situation of it but for now it failed hard.

I do not claim the result or the final state of GW2 bad or good but only works for some type of players.

Sad thing is they feel better by saying ‘this game is for me’. Elitism with no sense. I say ‘no sense’ because elitism at least makes a bit sense when there is competition or when you have something unreachable but here…

I hate elitism in all platforms.

Ursan.7846:

clay.7849:

Lol, ya I got the sarcasm.

I dunno, as a GW1 only player, I guess I don’t understand the need to have lots of different tiers of level 80 gear. I never minded just showing off with the cosmetics. No one else can see those damage numbers anyways lol.

Remember, GW1 also had “tiers” of effectiveness. Only it manifested itself in titles, not gear.

I don’t follow…

clay.7849:

Ursan.7846:

clay.7849:

Lol, ya I got the sarcasm.

I dunno, as a GW1 only player, I guess I don’t understand the need to have lots of different tiers of level 80 gear. I never minded just showing off with the cosmetics. No one else can see those damage numbers anyways lol.

Remember, GW1 also had “tiers” of effectiveness. Only it manifested itself in titles, not gear.

I don’t follow…

GW1 had tiers of vertical progression. Namely in the title tracks, where the more you grinded, the more effective your characters became. Faction and the EoTN titles, as well as the Salvage/Lockpick ones.

Basically, more grind = higher numbers. GW1 had vertical progression, so I’m not surprised at all at the vertical progression in GW2.

Ursan.7846:

clay.7849:

Ursan.7846:

clay.7849:

Lol, ya I got the sarcasm.

I dunno, as a GW1 only player, I guess I don’t understand the need to have lots of different tiers of level 80 gear. I never minded just showing off with the cosmetics. No one else can see those damage numbers anyways lol.

Remember, GW1 also had “tiers” of effectiveness. Only it manifested itself in titles, not gear.

I don’t follow…

GW1 had tiers of vertical progression. Namely in the title tracks, where the more you grinded, the more effective your characters became. Faction and the EoTN titles, as well as the Salvage/Lockpick ones.

Basically, more grind = higher numbers. GW1 had vertical progression, so I’m not surprised at all at the vertical progression in GW2.

Yet GW1s “vertical progression” didnt devalue any of your previous work. The titles that you mention worked more like GW2s agony infusions since they provided small defensive and offensive bonuses only versus certain mobs or made certain PVE skills slightly better.

GW2 not even 3 months after release already made 3 gear pieces obsolete and keeps on going with one piece per month virtually destroying mechanics of the game like crafting, karma, tokens… that were meant to make max stat gear be available trough many means of play.

SonicTHI.3217:

Yet GW1s “vertical progression” didnt devalue any of your previous work. The titles that you mention worked more like GW2s agony infusions since they provided small defensive and offensive bonuses only versus certain mobs or made certain PVE skills slightly better.

GW2 not even 3 months after release already made 3 gear pieces obsolete and keeps on going with one piece per month virtually destroying mechanics of the game like crafting, karma, tokens… that were meant to make max stat gear be available trough many means of play.

Oh I certainly won’t argue that. The addition of a new gear tier has no precedence in GW1.

However, the idea of grinding for small increases in power does. Which is my original point and the reason why I’m personally not very surprised at the concept of “tiered” gear in GW2.

Morena.9604:

I do not claim the result or the final state of GW2 bad or good but only works for some type of players.

Sad thing is they feel better by saying ‘this game is for me’. Elitism with no sense. I say ‘no sense’ because elitism at least makes a bit sense when there is competition or when you have something unreachable but here…

I hate elitism in all platforms.

Stop me if I’m misunderstanding, but …

While it’s true that some people do come off as a little too defensive when they say that ‘This game isn’t for you’ (and similar), you’ve essentially highlighted all of the things that people might logically be looking for from GW2 based on current market alternatives and merchandising that are not currently found in-game. It’s not an unreasonable expectation for a person who has played no other MMO than WoW to come to GW2 and expect a largely similar experience. In fact, many GW1 veterans are pretty fiercely proud that the game they played bucked many of the trends that were around at the time and resisted some of the changes implemented since its release. If a game’s specific design appeals to someone more than another design, it’s pretty natural to feel more satisfaction from playing it and be resistant to changes that might reduce their enjoyment, and I don’t think it’s particularly inappropriate for someone to tell another that what they’re looking for might not be within the intended design scope of the game they’re talking about, provided they’re not rude about it. GW2 doesn’t have raids or raid-like content, for example, so it’s accurate to say that if you’re looking for that, you won’t be able to find it here (at the moment, anyway). That’s not really elitism unless I start injecting my own feelings into it (‘GW2 doesn’t have raiding because I think raiding is dumb’, etc).

Am I wrong in saying that you expected all of your points in your original post to be included in the game? I’m getting that impression, but I might be wrong.

Aside from the tired arguments over end-game and so on that I don’t really care to participate in… I really would have liked to see a dedicated healing class in this game. Some people really do like playing monks! That said, I still like the game.

Im pretty much just waiting for the day when they add 2 handed axes/lance+shield combo/crossbow/land spear/spear+shield/polearm/dual shield >.> lololol/1 handed whips

defrule.7236:

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

GW2 system is more fun.
Boss fight begins.
Everyone stays in dps.
Boss dies.
Everyone teleports to another wp to camp another boss.
Oh, wait….

Sovta.4719:

defrule.7236:

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

GW2 system is more fun.
Boss fight begins.
Everyone stays in dps.
Boss dies.
Everyone teleports to another wp to camp another boss.
Oh, wait….

Except in dungeons and fractals where that’s not completely true. If you’re talking about open world bosses, well, that’s pretty much the same as open world bosses in every game I’ve encountered them in.

The game is too easy, the bosses are boring because they can be zerged all of them, the story is easy and misses depth. Personally I also believe that any MMO needs GvG, but I realize opinions can differ about that one.

Vayne.8563:

Sovta.4719:

defrule.7236:

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

GW2 system is more fun.
Boss fight begins.
Everyone stays in dps.
Boss dies.
Everyone teleports to another wp to camp another boss.
Oh, wait….

Except in dungeons and fractals where that’s not completely true. If you’re talking about open world bosses, well, that’s pretty much the same as open world bosses in every game I’ve encountered them in.

Nah, if you played guild wars 2 from start some bosses were pretty hard when a lot people are there, it didn’t last for 20 seconds even in lower zones. (and you had to care about dodging, ressing others)
But that’s another game i’m talking about.

Vayne.8563:

Sovta.4719:

defrule.7236:

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

GW2 system is more fun.
Boss fight begins.
Everyone stays in dps.
Boss dies.
Everyone teleports to another wp to camp another boss.
Oh, wait….

Except in dungeons and fractals where that’s not completely true. If you’re talking about open world bosses, well, that’s pretty much the same as open world bosses in every game I’ve encountered them in.

Yes, but many games have epic boss instances that you do as a guild or multi party group. Epic bosses here have no limitation on the number of parties doing the boss (and so all get zerged) and boss mechanics of the dragons is really uninteresting. It looks epic, but it doesn’t feel like you did anything special.

beren.6048:

Vayne.8563:

Sovta.4719:

defrule.7236:

I’m divided on the removal of trinity. I liked it a bit but hated it as well.

I think Final Fantasy 13 had a very nice system, although it was a single player game. You still had roles like tank/heal/dps/debuffer/buffer etc… but the neat thing was that any character can fill these rolls. So throughout the battle you are constantly shifting roles to adapt to the situation for example:

Boss fight begins.
Everyone shifts to dps/debuff roles.
Boss starts doing some damage.
One person transforms to tank role.
Tank getting low on health.
Another person transforms to healer role.
Boss does a massive attack, full party left almost dead.
Everyone shifts to healer role to quickly recover.

GW2 system is more fun.
Boss fight begins.
Everyone stays in dps.
Boss dies.
Everyone teleports to another wp to camp another boss.
Oh, wait….

Except in dungeons and fractals where that’s not completely true. If you’re talking about open world bosses, well, that’s pretty much the same as open world bosses in every game I’ve encountered them in.

Yes, but many games have epic boss instances that you do as a guild or multi party group. Epic bosses here have no limitation on the number of parties doing the boss (and so all get zerged) and boss mechanics of the dragons is really uninteresting. It looks epic, but it doesn’t feel like you did anything special.

I think they are limited at 100 man when events stop scailing, at least someone said that months ago. But if they would scale it for more man, boss would 1 shot most of the guys, and that is when boring mechanics really comes to mind.

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

Vayne.8563:

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

You can zerg alpha too (stack on him, dodge once in a while, some classes can probably save you easy even if you fails dodge), dodging once in a 10 s isn’t really great mechanic. Lupi is really great, just hoping they won’t nerf him cause of complains. (like they did with some other things)
And these “changes” to events for me it looks like fixes for events, they were probably intended to be that way from the start, but they rushed to release this game, gets more obvious more time it goes from launch.

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

You can zerg alpha too (stack on him, dodge once in a while, some classes can probably save you easy even if you fails dodge), dodging once in a 10 s isn’t really great mechanic. Lupi is really great, just hoping they won’t nerf him cause of complains. (like they did with some other things)
And these “changes” to events for me it looks like fixes for events, they were probably intended to be that way from the start, but they rushed to release this game, gets more obvious more time it goes from launch.

The point is, for every guy who likes Lupi, ten guys can’t stand him. I’ve beaten him and still don’t like him.

You can stack on Alpha in the submarine path, but it’s much much harder in the other paths. And when we fight him on those paths, my guild, at least, doesn’t stack on him. We move a lot, we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed, and we do a whole lot of moving and dodging.

Vayne.8563:

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

You can zerg alpha too (stack on him, dodge once in a while, some classes can probably save you easy even if you fails dodge), dodging once in a 10 s isn’t really great mechanic. Lupi is really great, just hoping they won’t nerf him cause of complains. (like they did with some other things)
And these “changes” to events for me it looks like fixes for events, they were probably intended to be that way from the start, but they rushed to release this game, gets more obvious more time it goes from launch.

The point is, for every guy who likes Lupi, ten guys can’t stand him. I’ve beaten him and still don’t like him.

You can stack on Alpha in the submarine path, but it’s much much harder in the other paths. And when we fight him on those paths, my guild, at least, doesn’t stack on him. We move a lot, we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed, and we do a whole lot of moving and dodging.

I stack on him on p2 i think (with my guard, but i can see that it can get harder with no guardian)
Also did him many times on necro, you just need to dodge at a right time. But sometimes he can get undodgeable (pets and if someone dies he can focus more on you, it happened to me that he puts me in crystal, aoe on me, after first crystal is destroyed immediately 2nd crystal :P)
And for Lupicus just learn the game, i did it first time with 4 first timers (including me).
After that it’s really easy with good players.

“we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed” ????? One of the basic rules of GW2 is to ress downed as fast as you can and don’t ress dead unless you are sure someone can kite boss.

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

Sovta.4719:

Vayne.8563:

But since Anet has said they’re going to redo world bosses (and we see some of that in Orr already), I guess its’ a matter of time before it changes. And there’s still Project Alpha and Lupi for people who actually want that level of frustration. lol

You can zerg alpha too (stack on him, dodge once in a while, some classes can probably save you easy even if you fails dodge), dodging once in a 10 s isn’t really great mechanic. Lupi is really great, just hoping they won’t nerf him cause of complains. (like they did with some other things)
And these “changes” to events for me it looks like fixes for events, they were probably intended to be that way from the start, but they rushed to release this game, gets more obvious more time it goes from launch.

The point is, for every guy who likes Lupi, ten guys can’t stand him. I’ve beaten him and still don’t like him.

You can stack on Alpha in the submarine path, but it’s much much harder in the other paths. And when we fight him on those paths, my guild, at least, doesn’t stack on him. We move a lot, we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed, and we do a whole lot of moving and dodging.

I stack on him on p2 i think (with my guard, but i can see that it can get harder with no guardian)
Also did him many times on necro, you just need to dodge at a right time. But sometimes he can get undodgeable (pets and if someone dies he can focus more on you, it happened to me that he puts me in crystal, aoe on me, after first crystal is destroyed immediately 2nd crystal :P)
And for Lupicus just learn the game, i did it first time with 4 first timers (including me).
After that it’s really easy with good players.

“we don’t rez people until they’re dead instead of downed” ????? One of the basic rules of GW2 is to ress downed as fast as you can and don’t ress dead unless you are sure someone can kite boss.

The reason why we don’t rez people IN THAT BATTLE when they’re downed, is because Project Alpha targets downed players. Sometimes he crystals them, but he always puts millions of circles around them. Half the people who get downed in that battle do it trying to rez someone else downed.

In most dungeons we rezz people before they go down, because it makes good sense. But in that particularly battle (not the submarine path) we found it’s easier not to. We have more people up more often by running around and rezzing someone after death.

I wouldn’t have said it if it was something we normally did. It’s a strategy just for that fight.