Guild Wars 2

All the rewards seem out of reach, or you got it last year. Dungeon armor was great with the tokens. After you got what you wanted from dungeons, then what? If you want Fractal skins or World Boss skins you have to battle with RNG. If you want a legendary you have to farm a lot of other stuff, trade on TP a bit and then win out on RNG (or farm even more for your precursor).

There are some middle ground items, like Abyssal Scepter and such, but it’s not enough. Battling with RNG feels like running on a treadmill and waiting to arrive somewhere. The other road is to do something unrelated to accumulate gold and then sell it on TP to get money for what you actually want.

Does anyone else see this as a problem?

I see some of these issues, yes…

I thought ascended was the middle ground.

Sube Dai.8496:

I thought ascended was the middle ground.

Not for everyone. Just for the ones looking for power creep.

Sube Dai.8496:

I thought ascended was the middle ground.

It’s sort of a middle ground, but it doesn’t really feel like something you achieved (like dungeon armor), it’s more like something you sold enough junk so you could buy it. The huge difference between light armor and medium doesn’t help either. Imagine if ascended pieces had some kind of quest line connected to it or boss fight, that’s more “ascended” than “I made it from stuff I bought”.

Way too much RNG in this game. Everything should be obtainainable with some kind of currency such as tokens no longer how long it takes, because then it would all at least be a reachable goal instead of “he got lucky and I didn’t”.

I agree, I wish there were more middle ground mystic forge weapons and such introduced. (similar to the mesmer weapon skins, jormag’s breath, corrupted weapons, destroyer weapons, etc)

Yeah, there’s definitely a lack of moderate and appropriately rewarding content. Most of the new stuff I’ve seen added in the past year is either a mind-numbing easy mode zerg, or heavily time consuming and gated. Dungeons represent a kind of happy medium imo, we definitely need more content like them: Relatively fast, small group PvE stuff for decent account bound rewards.

Also, considering the minor stat increases (and possibility of getting a combination you have no use for), Ascended weapon and armour drops seem entirely too rare. Also, they’re account bound and un-salvageable. You’d expect them to drop at least half as often as exotics.

Unfortunately, ‘The Economy’. Full stop. That is why we can’t have nice things.

Anet could make better use of the currency in this game.

I want to know when i will be able to get what i want, like ascended amulets, 20 days + achievement chest or a hour of BoH train in EotM. Dungeon armor, 1 day for helm/glove/boot, 2 days for the chest piece…
Precursors should be sold for a balanced amount of gold, karma and laurels.
Fractal skins should be sold for pristine and regular relics + shards.

RNG is awful, i left D3 because i couldn’t stand droping lots of kitten legendaries everyday and when i got what i want, it had the worst stats possible.

More horizontal progression would help tremendously.

Ascended Weapons feel like a middle ground. But armor is just way too costly and time-consuming to be considered a “middle ground”. Especially once you add infusions into the mix.

GW2 in general has a huge problem with its reward system. 99.999% of loot you find feels worthless. Blues, Greens and most trash drops, which the game swamps you with at every corner, have no residual value left to them. They are all essentially “junk”.

Rare items are the only items that feel both rewarding, while still being a relatively common drop.

Exotics are very uncommon drops but so common from other sources (crafting and badges) that they ultimately feel unrewarding.

Ascended materials on the other hand are way too abundant again since they are rewarded for EVERYTHING.

Ascended drops on the other hand are so incredibly rare that you may well never see one.

It’s like ANet can’t seem to balance their loot at all. Crafting and badges undermine the value of exotics completely while it’s commonplace to run 1-2 hours through Fractals 49, only to come out with nothing more than 1-2 rares and a bunch of “junk”. Something you could have easily gotten by auto-shot-afking 2 megaevents.

Case point, GW2 loot system is crap and very unsatisfying.

Rynn.1324:

More horizontal progression would help tremendously.

Glad I’m not the only one who says exactly this.

This game desperately needs desirable end-game loot that isn’t nigh unobtainable.

Well more of everything is always better. But i think there is a lot of ‘’middle ground’’ skin.

Reave of the Mists, Titan’s Vengeance, Flux Matrix, Spirit Links, Anomaly, Cobalt, Foefire’s Essence, Volcanus, Genesis, Mjolnir, Azureflame, Wintersbite, Wings of Dwayna, Lyss, Abyssal Scepter, Eye of Rodgort, Wall of the Mists, Aether, The Crossing, Whisperblades, Infinite Light, Jormag’s Breath, and several others.

Of course, some weapons don’t really have a lot of choice. For exemple, i hope you like purple if you want a good looking focus, because other than that or skin wihtout effect, you will be disappointed. Staff also lack in diversity and cool looking skin, same thing with dagger and other weapons.

IMO; one of the core problems with the loot system is the tiering (coloring) of drops.

Early levels are set well with blues, and a green sets us above the AI a bit.
Mid levels, the AI is more tuned to be against greens with yellows setting us above the curve.
Late game, or max levels and the AI is more tuned to yellows, with oranges (exotics) setting us above.

At least, that’s how it feels to me.

With that in mind, in mid levels, blues should stop dropping and only greens and yellows show up. Mostly greens so that yellow maintains it’s “Sweet I got an upgrade” feel.
However, at the cap, we should no longer be seeing Greens or Blues. Yellows should be the norm with oranges and the really rare ascended piece making the whole day worth while.

Removing some of the “junk” from the loot tables will go a long way in making items have more value other than “just more of the same crap” all the time.

Once steps like the above have been done (if Anet wanted to adapt such a thing anyway) then they could focus on finally adding in some badly needed diversity in art design to the drops – which has been a complaint since Beta that I’m shocked still hasn’t been addressed outside Gem Shop silliness. Stuff needs to be IN game as drops to add value to the content. – IMO of course.

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

FLiP.7680:

….
I want to know when i will be able to get what i want, like ascended amulets, 20 days + achievement chest or a hour of BoH train in EotM. Dungeon armor, 1 day for helm/glove/boot, 2 days for the chest piece…

Your examples imply you seem to know EXACTLY WHEN you can get those items. Making those times shorter is a different complaint (sounds like you want all those end game items just given to you, but maybe I’m misunderstanding your post).

Everyone here needs to take a step back and realize that while providing players with a viable game IS the goal, there is also a larger (some would say, more important) goal that Anet (and ANY business) must address….making enough money to keep servers running and earn a profit.

With that in mind, exactly HOW does Anet do this? Seriously, think about it. There are EXACTLY 2 methods for ANet to make revenue (with their current game model):

1. Sell new copies of the game.
2. Sell Gems.

That’s a pretty short list of ways to generate money to keep the servers running so all of us can actually log in and play. Certainly, there could be some changes to the economic model to make more ways, but currently the above 2 methods are literally their bottom line.

To increase the chance that players will BUY GEMS, they must gear content toward keeping players logged in so the access to the GEM store is present. You may not like it, but that’s the economic truth of this game.

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

+100

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

This +200 alot worse in many other mmorpg its actually not that bad in this game at all.

WasAGuest.4973:

IMO; one of the core problems with the loot system is the tiering (coloring) of drops.

Early levels are set well with blues, and a green sets us above the AI a bit.
Mid levels, the AI is more tuned to be against greens with yellows setting us above the curve.
Late game, or max levels and the AI is more tuned to yellows, with oranges (exotics) setting us above.

At least, that’s how it feels to me.

With that in mind, in mid levels, blues should stop dropping and only greens and yellows show up. Mostly greens so that yellow maintains it’s “Sweet I got an upgrade” feel.
However, at the cap, we should no longer be seeing Greens or Blues. Yellows should be the norm with oranges and the really rare ascended piece making the whole day worth while.

Removing some of the “junk” from the loot tables will go a long way in making items have more value other than “just more of the same crap” all the time.

Once steps like the above have been done (if Anet wanted to adapt such a thing anyway) then they could focus on finally adding in some badly needed diversity in art design to the drops – which has been a complaint since Beta that I’m shocked still hasn’t been addressed outside Gem Shop silliness. Stuff needs to be IN game as drops to add value to the content. – IMO of course.

I like your ideas about tiers of loot drops. I mean really ANet… I’m level 80, in a level 80 zone, with 277% MF, and I’m getting white drops!! WHITE!! This should not even be a thing. 90% of what I get is utter trash – disappointing, non-exciting, trash.

vincecontix.1264:

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

This +200 alot worse in many other mmorpg its actually not that bad in this game at all.

Except it’s not.

I just spent 2 hours doing Fractals 49 in a Pug. We had Swamp, Cliffside, Dredge Fractal and the Molten Duo. It was a time consuming, and somewhat tedious experience. And for what?

1 Gold and 40 Silver.

Roughly the same reward I would have gotten for zerging AC in 15 minutes.

That’s bollux. Absolutely bollux. This game has no correlation between risk/reward or any sort of loot-tiering.

You can get the same amount and quality of loot for zerging around in Orr, doing Champ trains or FotM or auto-shotting your way through mega-events. It’s an abyssal way to reward people for their efforts.

FotM can be hard, frustrating and punishing, especially if you’re in a PuG. The rewards need to reflect that or why even bother?

Brother Grimm.5176:

FLiP.7680:

….
I want to know when i will be able to get what i want, like ascended amulets, 20 days + achievement chest or a hour of BoH train in EotM. Dungeon armor, 1 day for helm/glove/boot, 2 days for the chest piece…

Your examples imply you seem to know EXACTLY WHEN you can get those items. Making those times shorter is a different complaint (sounds like you want all those end game items just given to you, but maybe I’m misunderstanding your post).

Everyone here needs to take a step back and realize that while providing players with a viable game IS the goal, there is also a larger (some would say, more important) goal that Anet (and ANY business) must address….making enough money to keep servers running and earn a profit.

With that in mind, exactly HOW does Anet do this? Seriously, think about it. There are EXACTLY 2 methods for ANet to make revenue (with their current game model):

1. Sell new copies of the game.
2. Sell Gems.

That’s a pretty short list of ways to generate money to keep the servers running so all of us can actually log in and play. Certainly, there could be some changes to the economic model to make more ways, but currently the above 2 methods are literally their bottom line.

To increase the chance that players will BUY GEMS, they must gear content toward keeping players logged in so the access to the GEM store is present. You may not like it, but that’s the economic truth of this game.

Or option 3, make and sell expansions (read: meaningful content) instead of feeding off of recycled cash shop garbage (which surely must have diminishing returns).

All this living story is great, but currently they’re relying on selling cash shop items with every new content update, instead of selling the content itself (since it’s much too small and short-lived to sell, after all). Surely they don’t think they can keep this up for several more years without a single expansion.

Dee Jay.2460:

FotM can be hard, frustrating and punishing, especially if you’re in a PuG. The rewards need to reflect that or why even bother?

FotM is brutal with a PuG. Once got all the way to the boss of the last fractal, it was the reactor one with the boss fight in the sky, and as soon as any one party member died, we were all screwed. We tried for at least an hour before collectively giving up.

Dee Jay.2460:

vincecontix.1264:

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

This +200 alot worse in many other mmorpg its actually not that bad in this game at all.

Except it’s not.

I just spent 2 hours doing Fractals 49 in a Pug. We had Swamp, Cliffside, Dredge Fractal and the Molten Duo. It was a time consuming, and somewhat tedious experience. And for what?

1 Gold and 40 Silver.

Roughly the same reward I would have gotten for zerging AC in 15 minutes.

That’s bollux. Absolutely bollux. This game has no correlation between risk/reward or any sort of loot-tiering.

You can get the same amount and quality of loot for zerging around in Orr, doing Champ trains or FotM or auto-shotting your way through mega-events. It’s an abyssal way to reward people for their efforts.

FotM can be hard, frustrating and punishing, especially if you’re in a PuG. The rewards need to reflect that or why even bother?

Been there, done worse, with a much larger time commitment in many other mmorpgs. What viralthefrog and vincecontix say is very true. If you don’t like the RNG in this game, then you will absolutely detest it in many other mmorpgs.

But what is kittening people off is the gem<—>gold exchange. That alone is making them feel anet has intentionally made RNG a massive pain in the kitten so that you would get desperate and simply buy the gold.

That is sleazy.

Dee Jay.2460:

vincecontix.1264:

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

This +200 alot worse in many other mmorpg its actually not that bad in this game at all.

Except it’s not.

I just spent 2 hours doing Fractals 49 in a Pug. We had Swamp, Cliffside, Dredge Fractal and the Molten Duo. It was a time consuming, and somewhat tedious experience. And for what?

1 Gold and 40 Silver.

Roughly the same reward I would have gotten for zerging AC in 15 minutes.

That’s bollux. Absolutely bollux. This game has no correlation between risk/reward or any sort of loot-tiering.

You can get the same amount and quality of loot for zerging around in Orr, doing Champ trains or FotM or auto-shotting your way through mega-events. It’s an abyssal way to reward people for their efforts.

FotM can be hard, frustrating and punishing, especially if you’re in a PuG. The rewards need to reflect that or why even bother?

You dont run Fractals for the gold. You run Fractals for the loot. Exclusive weapon skins, ascended rings, ascended armor, and ascended weapons. The empyreal fragments are also why.

Dee Jay.2460:

vincecontix.1264:

viralthefrog.6130:

If you hate the RNG in this game, you’re gonna have a bad time playing any other MMORPG.

This +200 alot worse in many other mmorpg its actually not that bad in this game at all.

Except it’s not.

I just spent 2 hours doing Fractals 49 in a Pug. We had Swamp, Cliffside, Dredge Fractal and the Molten Duo. It was a time consuming, and somewhat tedious experience. And for what?

1 Gold and 40 Silver.

Roughly the same reward I would have gotten for zerging AC in 15 minutes.

That’s bollux. Absolutely bollux. This game has no correlation between risk/reward or any sort of loot-tiering.

You can get the same amount and quality of loot for zerging around in Orr, doing Champ trains or FotM or auto-shotting your way through mega-events. It’s an abyssal way to reward people for their efforts.

FotM can be hard, frustrating and punishing, especially if you’re in a PuG. The rewards need to reflect that or why even bother?

Sure, you can blame the RNG for that, but really, sounds more like a dev problem than the RNG.
RNG in other games is much worse.
I have never had a full tier set in WoW, no matter how many times I did the raids all through Vanilla to WotLK.

I wouldn’t say the issue’s with risk/reward, but time/reward. Same time investment should give same reward. Then, people can find the content they find fun.

Also – catching barrels in the Shiverpeaks should pay a lot more than it currently does (Which I think is nothing)

I get the impression that quite often the designers know what they don’t want to do, since they’ve seen problems in other MMOs, but don’t actually have the vision to create something else that works. Horizontal loot rewards fit that bill, so do open world raid events, repetitive questing, etc. Let’s hope they have some new ideas for Season 2.

Loot balancing has been specifically bad though in GW2 and anything that has been fixed has generally had about 4 other corrections later to make the fix right. Champion loot bags are the prime example as eventually they even had to remove some champions.

Hannelore.8153:

Way too much RNG in this game.

It’s not that too many things are random drops. It’s that the random drop rate is incredibly terrible.

Take champion boxes : every once in a while you’ll get a 40s rare. Maybe every 50 box you’ll get a 1g worth rare, or if you are lucky 2g ! For ascended you can think of thousand. You can pretty much think of getting a precursor as likely as being hacked…
And the rest of the time ? 3s worth of blues/greens.

And it’s not limited to champion boxes, it’s pretty much in everything else.

Of course, someone else will come and say “well I got 40 ascended from champion boxes and I don’t even play that much”, do which I’ll say “good for you, you’re lucky, I’m not”.
It’s like people getting 3 Plague recipes and 5 other dungeons recipes while some people still don’t know such a thing exists or even think it’s fake…

It’s either “lucky” or “terrible” with barely nothing in the middle.

RedStar.4218:

Hannelore.8153:

Way too much RNG in this game.

It’s not that too many things are random drops. It’s that the random drop rate is incredibly terrible.

Take champion boxes : every once in a while you’ll get a 40s rare. Maybe every 50 box you’ll get a 1g worth rare, or if you are lucky 2g ! For ascended you can think of thousand. You can pretty much think of getting a precursor as likely as being hacked…
And the rest of the time ? 3s worth of blues/greens.

And it’s not limited to champion boxes, it’s pretty much in everything else.

Of course, someone else will come and say “well I got 40 ascended from champion boxes and I don’t even play that much”, do which I’ll say “good for you, you’re lucky, I’m not”.
It’s like people getting 3 Plague recipes and 5 other dungeons recipes while some people still don’t know such a thing exists or even think it’s fake…

It’s either “lucky” or “terrible” with barely nothing in the middle.

Get off the Weeniedale train if you want better loot from champion bags. Farm level 80 champs and you’ll have faaaaaaaaaaaar better odds at dropping T6 fine materials, which all fetch 35-50s each.

This. And more challenging content to gate those items behind.

Hannelore.8153:

Way too much RNG in this game. Everything should be obtainainable with some kind of currency such as tokens no longer how long it takes, because then it would all at least be a reachable goal instead of “he got lucky and I didn’t”.

Funny, I was thinking way too much, “Do X content umpty-seven times and get X.” The problem with this content is that the reward (2.5% of item X) does not foster a sense of anticipation the way farming the Fissure of Woe for a unique sword skin did. Completing most GW2 content for reward just means one more check box checked, or that much more gold earned.

What I’ll give you about GW2 RNG is that it’s extremely unfocused. There is very little content that is the only source for a specific item, and way too much, “X can drop from anywhere but the chances are ridiculously low.” Also, that the primary source for “earning” a precursor is dropping stuff in the mystic toilet speaks volumes about GW2’s miserable excuse for a reward system.