Guild Wars 2

…and it wasn’t because there was more mini-games.

At launch the game was about dynamic events, leveling, crafting and gear progression. I had more fun back then. I really miss that time. I loved the feeling that there is a reason to fight that monster and help those peasants. Now I feel that the game is about farming achievements and getting 8th back piece that I really don’t need and don’t care about… I never cared much about achievements. That didn’t change. But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

After launch I was playing a LOT. Now I rarely log in. Just to check out new area or dungeon. After an hour I’m done and bored. I spend more time on the forums now.

You cant possibly be done with leveling, crafting and gear progression. I’ve got 7 80’s, working on two more and still getting different gear and levels for all of them. SO much to do.

I have the same problem in most MMOs. Leveling is usually fun for me and end game stuff usually isn’t.

However, I still think my guild has a lot to do with how entertained I am. There’s always someone that needs help in the open world and I go help them and boom, I find something I’ve either never seen before or an event that I’ve not entered from that point in time, or some detail that I either overlooked or perhaps forgot.

I still spend a lot of time in the open world doing events and enjoying them.

I guess the difference is, I really like some of the new stuff that’s come out.

I agree, at launch there were so many players running around doing hearts & DE’s, and we were all leveling our characters. But those days are over. Most players have their level 80s, and are “done” with that part of the game.

I still enjoy PvE, but now it’s only for grinding out my own personal goals. I no longer pay attention to what the NPC’s are saying and I don’t care why I’m helping farmer Joe for the 100th time kill whatever is attacking his crop.

When a player reaches the point where the game is no longer enjoyable, then it’s time to move on to another game. Anet is trying to keep players entertained by adding some sort of content every 2 weeks. So at least there is something “new” to look forward to and try each month.

So far, PvE is still my favorite, and I still HATE JP’s, but I will continue to try out the new content each month.

I just miss the features original Guild Wars had.

Like Vanquish for example. While I did not Vanquish many zones at all, I still thought it was a good features to the game.

For people who don’t know what Vanquish was in original Guild Wars is that you entered a zone in hardmode, and you had to kill all of the enemies in it, or a certain amount at least, for rewards. Enemies did not respawn.

I also miss henchmen and Heroes. You collected heroes and they helped you on your missions and whatnot, you could make builds for them. You could also collect hero armour for your heroes if you did special missions, making them stronger.

I also miss the challenge modes you could do on your normal missions, like extra bonuses. Think of your personally story, and being able to replay it, but with additional bonus mission inside them, like you have to go to another path to kill a certain boss, or collect a certain item and bring it to a place in a certain amount of time and then finish the mission, to get an extra reward.

(Really early Human Common story line) Like, instead of going to the bandit cave and get the antidote for Andrew, you walk deeper into the cave to kill an Ettin, grab his club, and put it somewhere to open a new path to do something there, and then return to finish the mission by grabbing the antidote.

I also miss the Hall of Monuments in original Guild Wars, where your accomplishments showed in big trophies.

I also miss those special challenge modes that showed what time you beat it in, and you could see what time other players beat it in, and you could play it over and over again to get the 1st place, discuss tactics and what builds to bring.

Vayne.8563:

I have the same problem in most MMOs. Leveling is usually fun for me and end game stuff usually isn’t.

However, I still think my guild has a lot to do with how entertained I am. There’s always someone that needs help in the open world and I go help them and boom, I find something I’ve either never seen before or an event that I’ve not entered from that point in time, or some detail that I either overlooked or perhaps forgot.

I still spend a lot of time in the open world doing events and enjoying them.

I guess the difference is, I really like some of the new stuff that’s come out.

Pretty much this… endgame in most MMOs nowadays is lacking, I can’t figure how it could be better for GW2 given the philosophy they chose.

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

The ‘Making Money for the Investors’ philosophy ….

“I agree, at launch there were so many players running around doing hearts & DE’s, and we were all leveling our characters. But those days are over. Most players have their level 80s, and are “done” with that part of the game.”

Funny you say that. I have started a new char, and the initial area are still full of char, so many then when a champion is up, and somebody in the chat says “so and so is up at waypoint xyz”, even clicking the Wp and runnign as quick as possible I only get there within 20 seconds, and the mob is already dead with at least a dozen guy dispersing away.

I’ll admit I feel somewhat the same as the OP. Unlike many who seem to be really enjoying the living story content my interest has really started to diminish with each update. Class balance seems to progress at a snails pace while now every couple weeks I’m getting shiny fluff and a slew of a achievments instead. Maybe if I’m lucky a dungeon that might prove tricky for a couple runs. Sadly, for me it’s not really enough.

None of it really motivates me to play more, or to spend money on gems. The core of this game is still what I go back for, but without a confirmed extensive expansion on the horizon soon my interest will undoubtedly wane quickly.

OP, if I thought all the future held was mini-game platformers I’d pull the plug now. And I think that the AP system introduced was important as an enhancement to perceived reward for play which was lacking in the game. I believe the next frontier for GW2 will be a move to focus on an evolving, permanent living world, which I think is the best thing they can do. It’s the alternative to the expansion, which I really don’t want. I don’t know their plans but Colin’s statements have contained enough to give me hope for the future of GW2. (Colin, correct me if I’m wrong.)

HiddenNick.7206:

…and it wasn’t because there was more mini-games.

At launch the game was about dynamic events, leveling, crafting and gear progression. I had more fun back then. I really miss that time. I loved the feeling that there is a reason to fight that monster and help those peasants. Now I feel that the game is about farming achievements and getting 8th back piece that I really don’t need and don’t care about… I never cared much about achievements. That didn’t change. But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

After launch I was playing a LOT. Now I rarely log in. Just to check out new area or dungeon. After an hour I’m done and bored. I spend more time on the forums now.

I hear ya. I feel exactly the same. Except that my alts are making THAT same last year game last… so far.

Plan B was the “reward systems”, unfortunately I don’t play reward systems, I play games. And while minigames and coxbox updates seems to be pretty much the Plan C, I’m hoping maybe they’re actually making a mmo game in there somewhere, even if on the side… Maybe the Orr revamp is not gonna suck, maybe it’s gonna be somewhat remotely epic.

C’mon guys! Hold your hands, squeeze your eyes! Blind faith! Willpower! Aliens, give our devs back! :P

Ive felt the same at least 2 times over the past year, but then I created a new char with a different race/class combo and everything felt fresh again. It helped that I didnt attempt to get full map completion on any of my chars, so each time I had new areas to explore. In fact im pretty sure the drive to map completion on 1 char is responsible for people getting bored of pve so fast.

having said that I have 3 lvl 80s and 1 lvl 50, the latter I stopped lvling once I hit trahearne. Will probly save him for living world content. Still got a lvl 1 sylvari that I need to lvl, so havent done the sylvari storyline yet.

Dare I say it – server merge?

tl;dr: Arenanet should stop working on things that the OP doesn’t like, and instead focus 24/7 on making him happy so he doesn’t get bored.

Given that the game hasn’t lost anything since launch, merely added options that you are in no way forced to partake in, the OP is objectively and demonstrable wrong.

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

There is a gear treadmill. There is also a gold treadmill and even more.

Ascended gear is a treadmill and it does make a difference. Now there is new armor that tweaks stats yet again which means yet another treadmill. And if you think taking a break and coming back puts you at a equal footing, it does.

Content is changing pretty quickly and if you take a break, ignore it, or are slower; well, you just missed out on something.

Not saying it is good or bad, just saying it is what it is and there are treadmills in this game.

Antitheist.5306:

tl;dr: Arenanet should stop working on things that the OP doesn’t like, and instead focus 24/7 on making him happy so he doesn’t get bored.

I don’t know what should they do… I’m just saying that the game used to be more fun for me. And the fact is that back then it was about something else then now. I had a dragon to kill and whole world to explore. Now I have kites to collect and a race to win.

Raine.1394:

OP, if I thought all the future held was mini-game platformers I’d pull the plug now. And I think that the AP system introduced was important as an enhancement to perceived reward for play which was lacking in the game. I believe the next frontier for GW2 will be a move to focus on an evolving, permanent living world, which I think is the best thing they can do. It’s the alternative to the expansion, which I really don’t want. I don’t know their plans but Colin’s statements have contained enough to give me hope for the future of GW2. (Colin, correct me if I’m wrong.)

Did you follow any of ArenaNet’s statements before GW2 launched? They’ve backtracked on so many of them, their talk never matches their walk.

deees ah gree

It’s got all the stuff it had at launch plus more stuff; it’s more fun now

Valento.9852:

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

There is a gear treadmill. There is also a gold treadmill and even more.

Ascended gear is a treadmill and it does make a difference. Now there is new armor that tweaks stats yet again which means yet another treadmill. And if you think taking a break and coming back puts you at a equal footing, it does.

Content is changing pretty quickly and if you take a break, ignore it, or are slower; well, you just missed out on something.

Not saying it is good or bad, just saying it is what it is and there are treadmills in this game.

No… I think maybe you don’t understand what a treadmill is in the usage case of “gear treadmill.”

“Gold treadmill” makes absolutely no sense, it is in effect an utterance void of meaning.

Shiren.9532:

Raine.1394:

OP, if I thought all the future held was mini-game platformers I’d pull the plug now. And I think that the AP system introduced was important as an enhancement to perceived reward for play which was lacking in the game. I believe the next frontier for GW2 will be a move to focus on an evolving, permanent living world, which I think is the best thing they can do. It’s the alternative to the expansion, which I really don’t want. I don’t know their plans but Colin’s statements have contained enough to give me hope for the future of GW2. (Colin, correct me if I’m wrong.)

Did you follow any of ArenaNet’s statements before GW2 launched? They’ve backtracked on so many of them, their talk never matches their walk.

Anet made tens of thousands of statements before launch. The percentage they’ve “backtracked on” is neglible.

If that’s all you focus on, that’s fine. But to say that game developers who claim to have an iterative process might change things as they go…oh yeah, that’s right, they wrote whole articles about how they iterate and change things.

I guess that means that you CHOSE to listen to some things that were said while ignoring other things that were said.

Aepervius.2701:

“I agree, at launch there were so many players running around doing hearts & DE’s, and we were all leveling our characters. But those days are over. Most players have their level 80s, and are “done” with that part of the game.”

Funny you say that. I have started a new char, and the initial area are still full of char, so many then when a champion is up, and somebody in the chat says “so and so is up at waypoint xyz”, even clicking the Wp and runnign as quick as possible I only get there within 20 seconds, and the mob is already dead with at least a dozen guy dispersing away.

I started a new character yesterday afternoon. My 10th. This one is an asura (making this one of two that are not human), so I figured I’d get started by doing map completion of Metrica Province. Haven’t done that one in a while.

Anyway! There were a few other people running around there, both yesterday afternoon and this morning when I was playing, but not many. And not much map chatter. I found it refreshingly quiet and peaceful. Others, however might feel somewhat lonely in such a situation. The question, though: does this lack of chatty players signify impending DooOOooOOOooOOoom for our beloved GW2?

Nah, it means everybody (figuratively speaking) is over in Queensdale!

Hawkian.6580:

deees ah gree

It’s got all the stuff it had at launch plus more stuff; it’s more fun now

Valento.9852:

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

There is a gear treadmill. There is also a gold treadmill and even more.

Ascended gear is a treadmill and it does make a difference. Now there is new armor that tweaks stats yet again which means yet another treadmill. And if you think taking a break and coming back puts you at a equal footing, it does.

Content is changing pretty quickly and if you take a break, ignore it, or are slower; well, you just missed out on something.

Not saying it is good or bad, just saying it is what it is and there are treadmills in this game.

No… I think maybe you don’t understand what a treadmill is in the usage case of “gear treadmill.”

“Gold treadmill” makes absolutely no sense, it is in effect an utterance void of meaning.

Oh? Enlighten me.

HiddenNick.7206:

…and it wasn’t because there was more mini-games.

At launch the game was about dynamic events, leveling, crafting and gear progression. I had more fun back then. I really miss that time. I loved the feeling that there is a reason to fight that monster and help those peasants. Now I feel that the game is about farming achievements and getting 8th back piece that I really don’t need and don’t care about… I never cared much about achievements. That didn’t change. But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

After launch I was playing a LOT. Now I rarely log in. Just to check out new area or dungeon. After an hour I’m done and bored. I spend more time on the forums now.

Are you level80?

If so that’s the problem. Leveling your toon you felt epic because you were all over the place following your personal story and creating your own story. At 80 that stops and you don’t progress anymore with your character. The story progresses around you and that doesn’t feel epic, at least not to me. So I can feel for ya.

Glad for WvW!

HiddenNick.7206:

…and it wasn’t because there was more mini-games.

At launch the game was about dynamic events, leveling, crafting and gear progression. I had more fun back then. I really miss that time. I loved the feeling that there is a reason to fight that monster and help those peasants. Now I feel that the game is about farming achievements and getting 8th back piece that I really don’t need and don’t care about… I never cared much about achievements. That didn’t change. But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

After launch I was playing a LOT. Now I rarely log in. Just to check out new area or dungeon. After an hour I’m done and bored. I spend more time on the forums now.

You’re suffering “Worn out Shiny” syndrome.
Those of us who had been playing the first game constantly just months before Gw2 launched, could tell right off the bat that it was very Shallow from the get-go and all the hustle and bustle around the new features everyone else was so jazzed about, was in reality, mostly illusionary.

.

gurugeorge.9857:

Dare I say it – server merge?

It’s not so much that we need Server’s merged, b/c there’s plenty still that you get thrown into OVERFLOW when you try to go to LionsArch or Queensdale.

Where we need the “Merges” basically, are all the other Openworld zones in the mid-levels… basically everything from Brisbane Wilds up to Malchor’s Leap… IE: they just need to make 1 single instance for NA, and 1 for EU, and then just use selectable Overflows the way “Districts” used to work in the first game… (this would also help people meet up for a particular Dungeon they wanted without requiring a 3rd party website)

HiddenNick.7206:

…and it wasn’t because there was more mini-games.

At launch the game was about dynamic events, leveling, crafting and gear progression. I had more fun back then. I really miss that time. I loved the feeling that there is a reason to fight that monster and help those peasants. Now I feel that the game is about farming achievements and getting 8th back piece that I really don’t need and don’t care about… I never cared much about achievements. That didn’t change. But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

After launch I was playing a LOT. Now I rarely log in. Just to check out new area or dungeon. After an hour I’m done and bored. I spend more time on the forums now.

Rose-coloured glasses.

At launch the game was more shallow than it is now. Gold was very rare, exotics were harder to get. All we did were boring karma zergs or dungeons. Now we have more fun options.

Why is everyone using incorrect quotes of mine? LOL

AntiGw.9367:

Now we have more fun options.

Like what?

HiddenNick.7206:

AntiGw.9367:

Now we have more fun options.

Like what?

Like new events, new content, new dungeons, new guild missions, new daily system, new WvW stuff etc.

What exactly do you think was more fun than what we have right now?

Vayne.8563:

Shiren.9532:

Raine.1394:

OP, if I thought all the future held was mini-game platformers I’d pull the plug now. And I think that the AP system introduced was important as an enhancement to perceived reward for play which was lacking in the game. I believe the next frontier for GW2 will be a move to focus on an evolving, permanent living world, which I think is the best thing they can do. It’s the alternative to the expansion, which I really don’t want. I don’t know their plans but Colin’s statements have contained enough to give me hope for the future of GW2. (Colin, correct me if I’m wrong.)

Did you follow any of ArenaNet’s statements before GW2 launched? They’ve backtracked on so many of them, their talk never matches their walk.

Anet made tens of thousands of statements before launch. The percentage they’ve “backtracked on” is neglible.

If that’s all you focus on, that’s fine. But to say that game developers who claim to have an iterative process might change things as they go…oh yeah, that’s right, they wrote whole articles about how they iterate and change things.

I guess that means that you CHOSE to listen to some things that were said while ignoring other things that were said.

Vayne, you didn’t even mention the irony in seeing me being educated on the fact that they’ve backtracked on promises. Just when you think you’ve built a solid reputation on the forums.

Backtracking on promises, overall, is negligible and nothing that should define Anet’s name. VP, in fact, is the only area i feel is worth continued comment. And, my thought there is only to work to eliminate it or minimize it. It would be a better game without it.

There’s a lack of horizontal progression right now. I don’t feel like I’m getting anywhere when I do things. I’m not talking about earning gold, or laurels, or relics, or any other currency. I have no desire for that stuff. I have no desire for more skins, or anything in that realm.

I just want to feel like I’m getting better at this game, or that I’m making some kind of progress towards something I care about. Lately, I’ve been feeling more like a spectator of events rather than the hero.

I would suggest taking a break, it worked for me.
I only PvE at this point and enjoy the game.

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Moneyz!

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

<————————-WOW and Rift are back that way. If continuing gear treadmills and constant progression is what you want then go back to wow or play rift cause you are in the wrong game. You people are a fickle lot.. Rift was bashed to no end for being similar to wow and here you all are wanting to turn GW2 into wow… The day they turn this game into wow is the day I quit. Anet were very up front and informative at the beginning and long before launch that gw2 will not have a gear grind, so you people have no excuse to complain. You knew when you pressed that play button that this is a no gear grind game.. What? You thought you would just cry and whine til they give you your gear grind like a bunch of spoiled brats? pfft!!!! Get over it and stop trying to ruin this game. GW1 has the same philosophy.. Once I had avatars in their prestige armor those days of constant searching for new upgrades were over and that is the way I like it. I don’t want to change my armor like you change underwear. I like concentrating on playing the kitten game instead of having to constantly worry about gearing up every freakin frackin level..pffft…

I still find the game fun, if I grow bored of one aspect of the game (PvE for example) I simply go to another (WvW). I do however think the game needs more action in that whole maps can be taken over by enemies if left alone for extended periods; you know like a real war zone would be.

If we are to remain interested in an area we have already been through many times on many different characters, you need to change the tactics of the creatures we encounter. Similar to the way fighting real live humans can change based upon different scenarios. This would make things more difficult yes, but the breath of fresh air it would add would be amazing IMO.

I dunno, just today I was reminded of how much fun the game is when there are people around to do DEs (a run of a few DEs in Fields of Ruin), and how dull it is when there aren’t any people around.

It’s the same with any MMO really, but because of DEs, there’s an extra fun factor when there are lots of people.

I still say server merge, or early zone merge, or something like that. Surely it ought to be possible for the game to dynamically adjust to the numbers of players playing in zones?

It always amazes me why developers don’t prioritize this sort of thing more. There’s nothing that kills the atmosphere of an MMO more than it feeling “dead”. That was one of the big problems with SWTOR – it was apparent early on that there were too many servers, and that some were ghost towns. Early merging might have been a loss of face, but it probably would have saved the game, simply because MMOs are most fun when there are lots of people around – even if you’re soloing, having players around makes it feel alive.

Now GW2 isn’t nearly in the same sort of trouble as SWTOR, but surely it must have had some reduction in numbers from the early days when lots of people tried it, even if it wasn’t a precipitous decline, there would still have been some decline.

HiddenNick.7206:

…and it wasn’t because there was more mini-games.

At launch the game was about dynamic events, leveling, crafting and gear progression. I had more fun back then. I really miss that time. I loved the feeling that there is a reason to fight that monster and help those peasants. Now I feel that the game is about farming achievements and getting 8th back piece that I really don’t need and don’t care about… I never cared much about achievements. That didn’t change. But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

After launch I was playing a LOT. Now I rarely log in. Just to check out new area or dungeon. After an hour I’m done and bored. I spend more time on the forums now.

The beauty of GW2, in my opinion, is that the world is open to you and it allows you to make choices in what to do and how to play. If you don’t like grinding for rewards then stop grinding for rewards! Problem solved! If you feel compelled to do something that you don’t find enjoyable you might want to step back and take a long look at yourself.

If you enjoyed the early game play where you were playing for level progression, scrapping through various zones and exploring, doing dynamic events and hearts, then go roll another character and do it again. You know, most people did not play through leveling up their first character with a group of friends. Why not try it with some of your friends or guild mates, its a whole new and fun experience, and learning a new class or having a new starting zone can put a new spin on the game.

If you you enjoyed

HiddenNick.7206:

But AN puts most of their effort on mini games and achievement system instead of that what was really fun for me – dynamic events, fighting giants and dragons with crowd of people!

I agree.

This is my main issue with the lack of an expansion. At release, Guild Wars 2 opened its entire world in front of us and told us to go, explore, find new fun dynamic events. By releasing small pieces of content every two weeks, this feeling is gone – even when a new area is introduced, it’s very small, not enough to bring back that feeling of having an entire new world open for you. To make things worse, the dynamic events in the Living Story have been very poor – usually just the same thing repeating in different points of the map (see the Instigators in Southsun as the perfect example of this).

Even the Zephyr Sanctum, by far my favourite part of the Living Story, is very cool to explore yet has next to no dynamic events, and the ones that are there feel rather bland (and frankly they just get in the way, by making us lose our aspects).

I would love to see an expansion with areas like Queensdale – large areas filled with interesting dynamic events that tell small stories within their own chains. Unfortunatelly, it appears that’s not going to happen, and so far the team behind the Living Story have failed to dynamic events interesting like that.

ArenaNet could rework Orr completely, changing even the map design, to make it a place in which it’s actually fun to play in, with dynamic events and small stories behind said events (not to mention interesting, varied enemies). I expect that to happen a bit after Hell freezes over.

For me it’s simply not a living world. You can completely ignore whatever event comes to pass and everything will be the same static environment as it was before.

Shatterer will still be ignoring the throng gnats bashing him in the knee, rather than simply turning and flamespraying the lot of them. Jormag will still throw up wall 37,452 and not figure out that the masses are just going to knock it down again, and Ulgoth is working on raising his 80,237th pair of hounds.

If the community ignores a zone; I want it overrun. I want to feel like what we do matters. Likewise, when we aggressively push into a zone there should be a true reward; dungeons which unlock which give valuable reward for your effort;
Instead we destroyed the flame legions Searing Effigy; the superweapon which will change the face of the planet (in 7 minutes 52 seconds) and got a rare…… tonic.

Wow guys we just slew Gaheron Baelfire, but his dreams of godhood are still alive. Now the Flame Citadel is abuzz with his followers seeking to restore their lost leader… except they’re not.

And what new content has this living world created? Are pirate ships randomly appearing over cities hordes of bloodthirsty marauders kitten lling (to descend on a rope, really.. I cannot even say that) down to kitten , loot and pillage..

Is a powerful mesmer within the city opening a portal to provide access for a boarding party to ignite the ships magazine?

Are Asuran engineers manufaturing pod tossers to fling boarding parties into the skies.

Nah, but we to jump around and collect crystals by using some half thought arcane spell which may or may not work when a wooden ladder would suffice.

GW2 has the potential to combine their awesome creativity with a solid engine into a great MMO.. instead they give me a nintendoesque platformer so I can collect even more crap. Instead of giving me a true story; a world where subtle changes are added to the landscape to represent the past.

But go level another character.. the old zones will still be there.. just like they always are..

Ill be back later; I’m NOT going to go grind another kill of Jormag.

Khai.6435:

If the community ignores a zone; I want it overrun. I want to feel like what we do matters.

You mean, like Orr? Because that’s already in the game.

Eladriel.7295:

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

<————————-WOW and Rift are back that way. If continuing gear treadmills and constant progression is what you want then go back to wow or play rift cause you are in the wrong game. You people are a fickle lot.. Rift was bashed to no end for being similar to wow and here you all are wanting to turn GW2 into wow… The day they turn this game into wow is the day I quit. Anet were very up front and informative at the beginning and long before launch that gw2 will not have a gear grind, so you people have no excuse to complain. You knew when you pressed that play button that this is a no gear grind game.. What? You thought you would just cry and whine til they give you your gear grind like a bunch of spoiled brats? pfft!!!! Get over it and stop trying to ruin this game. GW1 has the same philosophy.. Once I had avatars in their prestige armor those days of constant searching for new upgrades were over and that is the way I like it. I don’t want to change my armor like you change underwear. I like concentrating on playing the kitten game instead of having to constantly worry about gearing up every freakin frackin level..pffft…

I don’t want GW2 to turn into WoW-clone, I just said I have no solution to create a better endgame given what the game stands for… actually all my suggestions have been posted in Suggestion Forum, while respecting the ideas behind the game, some people just should stop nerd-raging. lol

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Shiren.9532:

Raine.1394:

OP, if I thought all the future held was mini-game platformers I’d pull the plug now. And I think that the AP system introduced was important as an enhancement to perceived reward for play which was lacking in the game. I believe the next frontier for GW2 will be a move to focus on an evolving, permanent living world, which I think is the best thing they can do. It’s the alternative to the expansion, which I really don’t want. I don’t know their plans but Colin’s statements have contained enough to give me hope for the future of GW2. (Colin, correct me if I’m wrong.)

Did you follow any of ArenaNet’s statements before GW2 launched? They’ve backtracked on so many of them, their talk never matches their walk.

Anet made tens of thousands of statements before launch. The percentage they’ve “backtracked on” is neglible.

If that’s all you focus on, that’s fine. But to say that game developers who claim to have an iterative process might change things as they go…oh yeah, that’s right, they wrote whole articles about how they iterate and change things.

I guess that means that you CHOSE to listen to some things that were said while ignoring other things that were said.

Vayne, you didn’t even mention the irony in seeing me being educated on the fact that they’ve backtracked on promises. Just when you think you’ve built a solid reputation on the forums.

Backtracking on promises, overall, is negligible and nothing that should define Anet’s name. VP, in fact, is the only area i feel is worth continued comment. And, my thought there is only to work to eliminate it or minimize it. It would be a better game without it.

Anet didn’t backtrack on PROMISES. Anet said a few things which changed. I don’t understand how you can say a change is a promise. This is what I don’t get.

Every MMO makes changes. The try things, they don’t work, they try different things. They experiment. Something doesn’t work they modifiy it. Before launch they said they had energy and energy potions. They later ditched that.

But most people aren’t calling them on getting rid of energy potions. Why wasn’t that a promise?

Backtracking on a promise is simply hyperbole. Anet designed a game and during the design of that game they made sure everyone knew they were iterative. They said straight out there were times when they tried something and threw the whole thing away. Did you read that article? Did you see just how many articles Anet used the word Iterative and Iteration in? I even named a character Iteration, when the game first lauched, because my wife and I had a personal joke about them overusing the word.

So if I come to you and say I try all sorts of different things and then I change them…when I try different things and change them, I’m proving what I said.

You can use the word promise from today till doomsday but all Anet did was see what they thought worked. See what didn’t worked and make changes.

If you want to feel like a jilted lover over it, be my guest. It doesn’t change the reality of the situation.

Valento.9852:

Eladriel.7295:

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

<————————-WOW and Rift are back that way. If continuing gear treadmills and constant progression is what you want then go back to wow or play rift cause you are in the wrong game. You people are a fickle lot.. Rift was bashed to no end for being similar to wow and here you all are wanting to turn GW2 into wow… The day they turn this game into wow is the day I quit. Anet were very up front and informative at the beginning and long before launch that gw2 will not have a gear grind, so you people have no excuse to complain. You knew when you pressed that play button that this is a no gear grind game.. What? You thought you would just cry and whine til they give you your gear grind like a bunch of spoiled brats? pfft!!!! Get over it and stop trying to ruin this game. GW1 has the same philosophy.. Once I had avatars in their prestige armor those days of constant searching for new upgrades were over and that is the way I like it. I don’t want to change my armor like you change underwear. I like concentrating on playing the kitten game instead of having to constantly worry about gearing up every freakin frackin level..pffft…

I don’t want GW2 to turn into WoW-clone, I just said I have no solution to create a better endgame given what the game stands for… actually all my suggestions have been posted in Suggestion Forum, while respecting the ideas behind the game, some people just should stop nerd-raging. lol

Ermm.. Sorry to burst your bubble but it already has.

Vayne.8563:

But most people aren’t calling them on getting rid of energy potions. Why wasn’t that a promise?

Because it wasn’t a promise. They were talking about a minor feature in the game added to serve a purpose, but it wasn’t the best feature for the purpose they were going for, so it was changed.

That’s very different from claiming what was their design philosophy when building the game – “we don’t want players to grind” – and then going back on it. It feels less like iterative process, and more a change of direction in the game.

It’s little surprise that people continue discussing that line in the Manifesto. It was fundamentally part of the basic premises ArenaNet would theorically build the game on, but they changed their minds halfway through development.

It’s a pity that they didn’t keep the “we don’t want players to grind” mentality through the end. Crafting, dungeons, the reward systems and so on would have been much better with it.

PSX.9250:

Valento.9852:

Eladriel.7295:

Valento.9852:

HiddenNick.7206:

Valento.9852:

philosophy they chose.

What philosophy?

Well, no gear treadmill and no sort of progression, many people like the way it is now (explore and redo stuff), but many others don’t.

<————————-WOW and Rift are back that way. If continuing gear treadmills and constant progression is what you want then go back to wow or play rift cause you are in the wrong game. You people are a fickle lot.. Rift was bashed to no end for being similar to wow and here you all are wanting to turn GW2 into wow… The day they turn this game into wow is the day I quit. Anet were very up front and informative at the beginning and long before launch that gw2 will not have a gear grind, so you people have no excuse to complain. You knew when you pressed that play button that this is a no gear grind game.. What? You thought you would just cry and whine til they give you your gear grind like a bunch of spoiled brats? pfft!!!! Get over it and stop trying to ruin this game. GW1 has the same philosophy.. Once I had avatars in their prestige armor those days of constant searching for new upgrades were over and that is the way I like it. I don’t want to change my armor like you change underwear. I like concentrating on playing the kitten game instead of having to constantly worry about gearing up every freakin frackin level..pffft…

I don’t want GW2 to turn into WoW-clone, I just said I have no solution to create a better endgame given what the game stands for… actually all my suggestions have been posted in Suggestion Forum, while respecting the ideas behind the game, some people just should stop nerd-raging. lol

Ermm.. Sorry to burst your bubble but it already has.

I’m sorry is it a WoW clone because of the new tiers of gear every few months, the static wall of text quests, or the fact that you can use taunt and hold aggro to keep everyone else in your party save, while the healer heals the tank? Or maybe you were talking about flight paths and mounts? Or was it the monthly fee? Or the jumping puzzles?

Maybe you should look up clone in the dictionary. I’m not sure it means what you think it means.

AntiGw.9367:

Khai.6435:

If the community ignores a zone; I want it overrun. I want to feel like what we do matters.

You mean, like Orr? Because that’s already in the game.

Orr doesn’t change… oh you lose a few bases.. that’s not the same thing I am describing..

I’m talking dropping in events which change the state of map. If the orrions take over a base; modify it. change the architecture over time; change the surrounding terrain; likewise when the sylvarri beat them back show reclamation.

I am talking advancing fronts. You can never take back Orr.. Even though you have killed in the story the primary influence.. you have undead.. just mindlessly loitering around.. there is no story to their movements; no reason for why they are standing there if they are an undead army under the direction of dark magic.

Set your clock it’s time for the hourly Orr event farm; Plinx is up. There should be generals leading the army; their deaths should be felt across the zone. You should fear their presence on the battlefield.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

But most people aren’t calling them on getting rid of energy potions. Why wasn’t that a promise?

Because it wasn’t a promise. They were talking about a minor feature in the game added to serve a purpose, but it wasn’t the best feature for the purpose they were going for, so it was changed.

That’s very different from claiming what was their design philosophy when building the game – “we don’t want players to grind” – and then going back on it. It feels less like iterative process, and more a change of direction in the game.

It’s little surprise that people continue discussing that line in the Manifesto. It was fundamentally part of the basic premises ArenaNet would theorically build the game on, but they changed their minds halfway through development.

It’s a pity that they didn’t keep the “we don’t want players to grind” mentality through the end. Crafting, dungeons, the reward systems and so on would have been much better with it.

Nothing in this game is a grind, unless you choose to grind. And that’s simply a player’s choice. For example, if a player just simply must have the TA armor ASAP, and they grind TA day after day to get the set, and they don’t find that enjoyable, then that’s just their own stupid fault.

The game gives you choices on what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. Players make the mistake of chasing rewards to the detriment of enjoying the game. Unless ANet began restricting player’s freedom to choose how to play I don’t see how its preventable in an open game like GW2. At least they have made some effort to discourage it by including diminishing returns or by limiting certain things like Laurels to daily events, which prevents people from farming and grinding even more than they already do.

Vayne.8563:

I have the same problem in most MMOs. Leveling is usually fun for me and end game stuff usually isn’t.

However, I still think my guild has a lot to do with how entertained I am. There’s always someone that needs help in the open world and I go help them and boom, I find something I’ve either never seen before or an event that I’ve not entered from that point in time, or some detail that I either overlooked or perhaps forgot.

I still spend a lot of time in the open world doing events and enjoying them.

I guess the difference is, I really like some of the new stuff that’s come out.

Vayne, I find that I’m liking your post more and more. Wait….OH MY GOD! Am I being assimilated??!! ;-)

Seriously, I don’t always agree with what you might say 100% of the time, but I do believe you always try to be fair and unbiased. Cheers!