Guild Wars 2

Here are two complaints I see all the freaking time:

1) There is nothing to do once you’re level 80.
2) I wanted to get away from gear grinds and just play.

Here is the problem – this is a MMO. The world does not, and will not stay stagnant. You guys can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a game where you get the best gear and then there is nothing to go to from there AND a game that continues to expand on itself by creating new content and, inevitably, gear.

Everyone here is complaining about the POSSIBILITY of a gear grind – why are you complaining? Isn’t this what you guys are so adamant about? “There is nothing to do when I get to 80”. Well you know what? Now there will be. What is it you guys are really looking for from ANet? I’m personally very happy with the game. I feel it has nailed everything that I’m looking for in a MMO. Bring on the content, and bring on more gear and dungeons. Keep on keeping in fresh ANet.

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

You need to focus a little Selon.

There are 2 groups

1 did not buy into ArenaNets design thoughts. Bought the game as a new shiny expecting the same old MMO. THEY want grinding after lvl 80.

1 agreed with Anets design thoughts and went for GW2 specificly to get away from the grind at lvl 80 for better stats. Those NEVER complained about being bored at lvl 80. Those are NOW complaining because we have to grind to keep up with the stat progression.

Arena Net has made a choice. They will lose all their old customers for the ones that want the grind. The question is will those people stay like we did for 7 years in GW1? or leave to the new shiny in a month?

yeah we all know what they will do. Only Anet does not seem to know this.

Selon.7056:

You can’t have a game where you get the best gear and then there is nothing to go to from there AND a game that continues to expand on itself by creating new content and, inevitably, gear.

You can have a thriving, successful game where there is still stuff to do all the time but it’s not “get better gear”.

And that game can retain a sizable player base for, like, 6 years while raking in close to $300 per player through cash shop upgrades and expansions.

It was called Guild Wars.

Gee, could it be possible that people complaining about nothing to do at level 80 may not be the same people that argue against the gear grind?

What do you GW1 guys want from the game then? How are to keep a MMO fresh without introducing new content and gear? I’m just so confused by this – that’s what MMOs do. They continue to evolve. GW1 did change and it did have new gear. they had 5 (or something) expansions and I know I wasn’t sitting in the gear I got from vanilla GW1 that whole time.

Yes, but the stats were always the same in GW1…

GW1 wasn’t an MMO, so there’s that.

Gee, do you think it just might be possible to release new content without adding new gear?

I wore my GW1 armor through all 4 campaigns, I did collect a few more along the ways but they were only cosmetic changes.

GW2 was advertised as the MMO for those who don’t want to grind, so there’s that.

They made GW1 more difficult and challenging by giving the mobs better builds, smarter AI, and levels higher than the player. Level 20 was the plateau, but you could always overcome with skillful play.

Giving you more gear doesn’t do that. It becomes a barrier to skillful play and a crutch to artificially give you a sense of progress and make you feel like your are getting ever more powerful instead of just better/more crafty. Once you get this new gear, you’ll be bored again, and the cycle continues.

That is true, but I had more fun with it than any MMO I played (WoW, Aion). So what is the point of a game if its not fun?

The problem is MMO lean on the gear tread mill like a crutch. I play way way more hours on FPS games, Because they are FUN.

MMOs seems to go……OH NO people are leaving. Give them a huge grind to do something over and over again. The reason this works is you can keep lieing to your self that the game will get better if I just get those 2 more pieces of gear. Not because it makes the game better.

Game is fun till Fort Trinity (expected and exeeded)
Hate gear/requirement progression.
Hate the dungeons, and the last 3 zone’s (not enough events).

Liked the Halloween event.

Selon.7056:

What do you GW1 guys want from the game then? How are to keep a MMO fresh without introducing new content and gear? I’m just so confused by this – that’s what MMOs do. They continue to evolve. GW1 did change and it did have new gear. they had 5 (or something) expansions and I know I wasn’t sitting in the gear I got from vanilla GW1 that whole time.

If you don’t understand the core issue at hand, it’s probably best not to make a thread.

Selon.7056:

What do you GW1 guys want from the game then? How are to keep a MMO fresh without introducing new content and gear?

Where did anyone say you cant introduce content / gear? A game can add content and gear without making it a gear treadmill. All you have to do is not make the new gear better than the ones already in the game. They should be completely aesthetic, like they were in GW1.

Selon.7056:

You guys can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a game where you get the best gear and then there is nothing to go to from there AND a game that continues to expand on itself by creating new content and, inevitably, gear.

Sure you can: Make a game where you get the best gear and then there is nothing statistically superior from there.
Then when the game expands and there’s new content, the new gear that comes with it has the same stats, but newer/cooler appearances.

Look how easy that problem was to solve.

I would post a full list of valid complaints, but last time i did i received a 5 day suspension from the forums, with no reason listed, and no response at all.

Note that the complaints were listed constructively and with full breakdown on how to rectify it. The thread i made received 4-5 pages of constructive replies, yet it got locked, then deleted.

Edit: I should add that ive given up trying to communicate with ArenaNet. They seem to simply not listen to any queries, or constructive criticism. Either here, on reddit, mmo champ or even on their own Facebook page.

If they relaxed their forum moderation, and actually allowed people to DISCUSS the game ( remember arenanet, discussion works both ways. Not just the way you decide), we could air out the problems with the game, and the developers can come into the thread and comment on things.

As it stands now, things are just getting deleted, and posters banned so no replies can be made.

aliquis.9180:

GW2 was advertised as the MMO for those who don’t want to grind, so there’s that.

It may have been advertised as such, but even the launch content once you hit 80 there is significant grind. It’s a grind to get legendaries, it’s a grind to get dungeon sets/weapons, it’s a grind to get karma, gold etc etc.

I’m surprised people who claim to have experience playing MMOs in the past take any PR speak or advertising seriously. I’ve been playing this genre a long time, around 15 years, and learned long ago to take anything a developer says (especially pre-launch) about their game with a grain of salt. Their intentions may be good, they may even believe what they are saying, but it’s a business, and first a foremost businesses are about making money.

Selon.7056:

What do you GW1 guys want from the game then? How are to keep a MMO fresh without introducing new content and gear? I’m just so confused by this – that’s what MMOs do. They continue to evolve. GW1 did change and it did have new gear. they had 5 (or something) expansions and I know I wasn’t sitting in the gear I got from vanilla GW1 that whole time.

How do you keep a game fresh by copying a tired old format – many gamers bought GW2 because it promised to move away from that tired old format which it turns out is not true. And yes Armour in GW1 changed but by the addition of more skins not stats and the armour skins were beautiful btw… here they’re ugly as hell.

Selon.7056:

GW1 did change and it did have new gear. they had 5 (or something) expansions and I know I wasn’t sitting in the gear I got from vanilla GW1 that whole time.

GW1 had plenty of new gear. But you know what? If you had sat in the gear you got from vanilla GW1 the whole time, your gear would still be exactly as powerful as the best gear available in the game.

I know that, because my oldest Guild Wars 1 character is still using a max-stat weapon that I found in the 24 hour headstart for pre-orders, before the game even technically launched. And that character is also wearing the set of 15k armour from (edit: Not Droknar’s Forge. Uhh… Granite Citadel? Whichever. The Dragon armour) that I bought about three days after the game went live.

And there is still nothing in the game that is more powerful than that gear, three expansions and seven and a half years later.

I created this thread to understand what you guys are really looking for. GW1 had these new armor upgrades (I forget the name). Just because they weren’t in the initial GW2 game doesn’t mean there will be a treadmill. It just means they have introduced it earlier than expected so that they can create the dungeons you are looking for. GW1 was an MMO, it just played differently than any other because the entire game was mostly an instance. What made the endgame of GW1 so great? Honest question.

Selon. The treadmill is already in game. Period.

The devs from day 1 said outright that this game would be GW1 but in a full blown MMO. This just hasnt happened at all.

Oh and GW1… was never an MMO. GW1 devs even said that themselves.

Selon.7056:

What made the endgame of GW1 so great? Honest question.

First and foremost, there was Hard Mode. You could play any explorable or mission zone in a toughened-up mode designed for maxed-out characters. The achievements and game map provided clear feedback that made “vanquishing” everything in Hard Mode really appealing.

I would been fine, if they introduced items with different stat combinations or new effects, but new items with better stats than the initial top gear is, in my eyes, the worst thing they could have done to this game.

Selon.7056:

I created this thread to understand what you guys are really looking for. GW1 had these new armor upgrades (I forget the name).

By upgrade you mean insignia?
They weren’t upgrade to the previous armor. All it did was to take the stats of those armor and make it into an insignia instead of directly built into the armor. So it became easier to mix and match sets and create the armor with the look and stats we wanted.
Pretty much like the insignia we use to craft right now in GW2, just that they were added after item creation instead of during the process.

Selon I played GW1 for 5 years and bought this game in the trust that it would be along the same lines as advertised/promised. Complaints are a bit out of hand but they are also justified. If you bought a PS3 game in a Xbox 360 case but the retailer told you it was Gears of War 4 for PS3 (don’t worry) but turned out to be for Xbox. You wouldn’t complain?

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Selon.7056:

Here are two complaints I see all the freaking time:

1) There is nothing to do once you’re level 80.
2) I wanted to get away from gear grinds and just play.

Here is the problem – this is a MMO. The world does not, and will not stay stagnant. You guys can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a game where you get the best gear and then there is nothing to go to from there AND a game that continues to expand on itself by creating new content and, inevitably, gear.

Everyone here is complaining about the POSSIBILITY of a gear grind – why are you complaining? Isn’t this what you guys are so adamant about? “There is nothing to do when I get to 80”. Well you know what? Now there will be. What is it you guys are really looking for from ANet? I’m personally very happy with the game. I feel it has nailed everything that I’m looking for in a MMO. Bring on the content, and bring on more gear and dungeons. Keep on keeping in fresh ANet.

The people complaining about the first point are not the same people complaining about the second point.

The people complaining about the first point didn’t play Guild Wars and didn’t read about ArenaNet’s design philosophy. The people complaining about the second point did play Guild Wars and did read about ArenaNet’s design philosophy.

There is plenty to do at the level cap. There’s also plenty of other things to do before you reach the level cap.

ArenaNet has sold out and gone back on their design philosophy. The complaints are justified and warranted. Loyal fans of the franchise feel lied to and betrayed.

If you don’t like reading about complaints and objections to the new direction ArenaNet is taking this once-wonderful game in, then please don’t read them.

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
well cheers! things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Stop reading threads you don’t like? Problem solved.

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
well cheers! things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

For me I couldn’t change my mind after I told millions I was going to do something, that would make me a lia….ohhh!

WoW set the trend for gear treadmills. It isn’t the best method nor the most desirable method to increase the longevity of a game. Saying that we need it to prevent stagnation is just laziness.

Start associating cost (gear grinds) with desirable activities (PvP, dungeons, etc.) and you’ll see a rapid decline in population. The casuals will move on, the WoW players are fickle, and the diehards will feel betrayed.

tjockis.3798:

but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME!

This week is kind of a special case, since the latest patch represents a huge structural shift in what the game is about. Lots of people who don’t, in fact, just sit around forums kvetching have come out to kvetch.

tjockis.3798:

what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games?

Well, in the MMOG genre, designers decided to kill fun and replace it with raid-gear treadmills. And then they made money hand-over-fist by doing so, so that became the One True Way.

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Im sorry, you just proved with one post that you have absolutely NO idea at all what you are talking about. Im not even going to bother responding to any points you may have made in that post.

Nerth.3940:

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
well cheers! things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Stop reading threads you don’t like? Problem solved.

yeah, its easy to spot those threads when most are complains about this and that… but thanks for the tip…

Renegadeimp.8439:

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Im sorry, you just proved with one post that you have absolutely NO idea at all what you are talking about. Im not even going to bother responding to any points you may have made in that post.

okaj… yeah, i have no clue… so since i dont whine and complain and think the same as you im clueless..

Uh, no. Horizontal progression at 80 and new content TO DO is what people want. Vertical progression is what ANet specifically and loudly proclaimed their game wasn’t about. You don’t need bigger numbers on your gear (while the enemy numbers get bigger to compensate) to make content fun and engaging. That’s just power creep: http://extra-credits.net/episodes/power-creep/

You know what I was hoping for when they announced unique rewards that can only be obtained in the new area and a new dungeon? I wanted a new armor set. I wanted them to finally put in the Tribal armor set and a new set of exotic heavy/medium armor and weapons so I could get a cool new appearance option for some of my characters that still don’t have just the “right” look. I wanted a new legendary weapon to consider grinding. That is the content I want at 80.

I do not want the “endgame” of GW2 to become an arrow comparison engine like most other MMOs. Especially when they specifically said it wouldn’t be.

Selon.7056:

I created this thread to understand what you guys are really looking for. GW1 had these new armor upgrades (I forget the name). Just because they weren’t in the initial GW2 game doesn’t mean there will be a treadmill. It just means they have introduced it earlier than expected so that they can create the dungeons you are looking for. GW1 was an MMO, it just played differently than any other because the entire game was mostly an instance. What made the endgame of GW1 so great? Honest question.

What made the endgame of GW1 so great was that your character didn’t just arbitrarily get more powerful, which meant that 90% or more of the game was tuned to be in line with one baseline of power. They didn’t have to make encounters easier than they should have been because “Oh, most people will still be in Rares/Exotics”, and they didn’t have to try to constantly hit a moving target with game balance by making content that was appropriately difficult for the new maximum, which is 15% better than the old maximum, only it also has to be doable for people in the old old maximum…

And the game respected you as a player enough to say “You know what, giving you an extra 10% damage and health is pointless if we’re just going to end up increasing enemy health and damage by 10% to compensate. We won’t waste your time and insult your intelligence by giving you that extra damage and health ‘so you have something to do’.”

Once you completed the content, you could do it again, if you thought it was fun enough to play a second time. And if you didn’t think it was fun enough to do a second time? Then they didn’t try to bribe you to stick around by putting a Sword +1 at the end of a hundred runs.

And by the way, you’re misremembering the “new armor upgrades” that were introduced with GW Nightfall. The Insignias offered the exact same bonuses that were already available in the gear to begin with. The difference was that Insignias reduced the amount of grind required, because you could simply swap them out instead of having to go out and grind money and materials for an entirely new set of armour.
And when Insignias were introduced, everybody’s armour was automatically converted to Insignia armour, from the old bonus system.
There were a handful of Insignias that offered new effects, but none of them were upgrades to existing effects, and all of them naturally required that you give up the older effect in favour of them. They didn’t introduce +HP armour that you could suddenly slot with Elemental Resistance.
The only other ‘new’ runes that were ever introduced were the Attunement, Vitae, and condition-reducing runes, which still used up an existing rune slot (meaning that some classes/builds wouldn’t have any spare room for them at all), which had tiny effects (A Rune of Vitae was an increase of less than 2% of your maximum HP, nothing like the 8-15% estimates for Ascended over Exotics), and most importantly: They were incredibly easy to find, to the point where you could be buying them at level 4 or 5 and not really even feel the drain on your bank account. If Ascended equipment cost 2 silver, they would be an appropriate comparison.

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Im sorry, you just proved with one post that you have absolutely NO idea at all what you are talking about. Im not even going to bother responding to any points you may have made in that post.

okaj… yeah, i have no clue… so since i dont whine and complain and think the same as you im clueless..

Im sorry, since was posting valid concerns and constructive criticsm " whining and complaining?"

In case you hadnt noticed, they LIED to us and pulled a HUGE bait and switch tactic. They deliberately waited until 2 months after release as well, so nobody could start chargeback proceedings with their bank so they could keep the money.

The sad thing is, they dont even have the decency to even comment on the very serious issues with the game.

One other MMO tried this 7 years ago, and look what happened to it.

Renegadeimp.8439:

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Im sorry, you just proved with one post that you have absolutely NO idea at all what you are talking about. Im not even going to bother responding to any points you may have made in that post.

okaj… yeah, i have no clue… so since i dont whine and complain and think the same as you im clueless..

Im sorry, since was posting valid concerns and constructive criticsm " whining and complaining?"

In case you hadnt noticed, they LIED to us and pulled a HUGE bait and switch tactic. They deliberately waited until 2 months after release as well, so nobody could start chargeback proceedings with their bank so they could keep the money.

The sad thing is, they dont even have the decency to even comment on the very serious issues with the game.

One other MMO tried this 7 years ago, and look what happened to it.

lied.. seriously.. they changed their mind and found this to be a better direction for THEIR game. and come on.. chargeback.. havnt you have fun worth 60$ since release? stop beeing cheep and ungrateful, plz…
and thats all from me on this.. we have different views on this and thats OK. now go play or something…

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

tjockis.3798:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Theyre not being “fresh” at all. They are also doing a complete 180 on their manifesto.

THAT is why you are seeing complaints from a lot of players. All they want is for a dev to respond to these complaints, and the devs just arent doing it.

isnt it time to forget that kitten manifesto soon? yeah, they changed their mind, havnt you sometimes? im also starting to get insanly tierd of all complains on this and other forums. i try to come here looknig for USEFULL info, guides, help and other various
things, but everytime its filled with unhappy whinnig ppl. EVERYTIME! if i was so unhappy and miserable about just about EVERYTHING and NOTHING i sure would leave. maybe come back when next patch arrives to check that out, maybe. i might be uniqe in that matter, who knows. just grow up or something, will you? (and not just you, but all other who complain, youre only one of em and i happend to use you and quote you, could be anyone). what happend to the small thing called FUN that ppl used to have when playing games? and again – if its not fun, pick another game.

im just so tierd to see all complains and useless whine. grow up, get over it and lets play!

Im sorry, you just proved with one post that you have absolutely NO idea at all what you are talking about. Im not even going to bother responding to any points you may have made in that post.

okaj… yeah, i have no clue… so since i dont whine and complain and think the same as you im clueless..

Im sorry, since was posting valid concerns and constructive criticsm " whining and complaining?"

In case you hadnt noticed, they LIED to us and pulled a HUGE bait and switch tactic. They deliberately waited until 2 months after release as well, so nobody could start chargeback proceedings with their bank so they could keep the money.

The sad thing is, they dont even have the decency to even comment on the very serious issues with the game.

One other MMO tried this 7 years ago, and look what happened to it.

lied.. seriously.. they changed their mind and found this to be a better direction for THEIR game. and come on.. chargeback.. havnt you have fun worth 60$ since release? stop beeing cheep and ungrateful, plz…

lied.. seriously.. they changed their mind and found this to be a better direction for THEIR game. and come on.. chargeback.. havnt you have fun worth 60$ since release? stop beeing cheep and ungrateful, plz…and thats all from me on this.. we have different views on this and thats OK. now go play or something…

I give up trying to respond or even reason with you. It’s become obvious you are completely oblivious to the history of this games development and its marketing right through to a week or so ago.

I hope you have fun in the game. Personally, if my bank allows me to, chargeback proceedings are being started on monday. As its a visa card, and im in the UK, im pretty much guaranteed by law to get it back.

Again, have fun. This is my last response to you.

tjockis.3798:

they changed their mind and found this to be a better direction for THEIR game

And they designed and coded all of the new content in less than two months?

Selon.7056:

How are to keep a MMO fresh without introducing new content and gear?

It’s amazing that traditional MMOs managed to indoctrinate players so well.

The reason why traditional MMOs introduce new gear often is not to make the game better, or more fun, or to please players – it’s to add more cheap grind so players keep grinding (and thus playing and thus paying, which is the goal here) longer. Players were the one who, in order to justify how much (time and money) they wasted grinding, decided to believe with almost religious fervor that a MMO cannot exist without a gear treadmill.

So let’s make it clear: a MMO can exist without a gear treadmill. The proof is called “Guild Wars”.

The crux of the argument, though, is that MMOs should exist without a gear treadmill. The need to grind for better items is a cheap way to add content – it’s not adding fun content, rather just adding one more carrot for players to chase. Instead of working on making something interesting and fun, developers can simply catter to an almost irrational aspect of human beings – the need to see a constant +1 – and call it a day. Just as life is better than that (whenever someones goes to the movies, we don’t expect to be paid for doing so – going to the movies is its own reward, since it’s something fun), so games should be better than that.

Gear treadmill is not “an option”. It’s not a “different path”. It’s bad design, pure and simple.

The fact the so-called “MMO veterans” cannot even conceive of a MMO without gear grind shows the sad state the MMO genre currently is in.

Malefactor.2971:

GW1 wasn’t an MMO, so there’s that.

Y’know, I keep seeing this thrown around as if it means something.

It doesn’t. It’s also not accurate. If you think Guild Wars isn’t an MMO, please provide answers to the following:

1. What is an MMO? What are the definitive qualities of the genre?

2. How is Guild Wars not an MMO?

Now, I realize the game was marketed as a “Competitive Online Role-Playing Game” in order to distinguish it from the “conventional” MMORPG design. But then, a lot of games have broken from that conventional model and yet still call themselves MMORPGs. So, the rebranding doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

But even if we accept that marketing pitch, that doesn’t remove it from the broader genre. Even the game’s website admits that.

Played online in a hosted environment. Check. Persistent world. Check. Thousands of players. Check.

That there’s an MMO.

Ballistic.4531:

tjockis.3798:

they changed their mind and found this to be a better direction for THEIR game

And they designed and coded all of the new content in less than two months?

since you ask me a question i guess its rude to not awnser.
i dont know, some have probaly been in development for long time, and some decisions might have come late. but thats just a guess just as good as anyones…

DootmasterX.3025:

They made GW1 more difficult and challenging by giving the mobs better builds, smarter AI, and levels higher than the player. Level 20 was the plateau, but you could always overcome with skillful play.

Giving you more gear doesn’t do that. It becomes a barrier to skillful play and a crutch to artificially give you a sense of progress and make you feel like your are getting ever more powerful instead of just better/more crafty. Once you get this new gear, you’ll be bored again, and the cycle continues.

What do you think levels are? Go take your level 10 character to level 80 content and see how well you do.

Better gear is just leveling up in a different sense. It’s much easier to keep the game balanced that way too, which is why every MMO I know of adopts this as their endgame strategy.

(I won’t quote this time so no one would feel obligated to answer)
Exactly the point. If they new that they would (at any point in time when they started to develop this new content) deviate in any way from what they said and how they marketed their product, shouldn’t they have came clean and told the community about the new changes in direction?
Because I really, really don’t think they came up with this idea 7 days ago.

Ballistic.4531:

(I won’t quote this time so no one would feel obligated to answer)
Exactly the point. If they new that they would (at any point in time when they started to develop this new content) deviate in any way from what they said and how they marketed their product, shouldn’t they have came clean and told the community about the new changes in direction?
Because I really, really don’t think they came up with this idea 7 days ago.

Oh no, I agree with that part. I was really interested to see how they where going to avoid the most inescapable part of MMO’s. Turns out they didn’t.

I’m pretty sure you got the title wrong. It should read “This is now another stagnant MMO” because they are now officially offering identical mechanics to their competitors who have had years of perfect the art of vertical gear-based progression.

No one would have cared if the pellets being dispensed for running like a good little hamster didn’t affect those who don’t want anything to do with it. But it does affect us. It affects us in other dungeons, in world PVE and in WvW.

Otherwise, believe me, there wouldn’t be a bit of fuss. You guys would have been free to run around that hub until you died in your chairs from forgetting to eat, drink, and have a life.

Only if the gear didn’t affect other parts of the game, you guys wouldn’t want to run the dungeons, would you? You’d complain that the gear isn’t meaningful enough. So basically, you only want your hamster wheel if you get pellets that will aggravate the crap out of other players who don’t run on it.