Guild Wars 2

forum bug

15 chars on a charrtacylce

It’s good to see that the notion that the limit is simply an anti-bot measure is dead and buried.

Banaghran.7510:

John Smith.4610:

1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE

It might be better if you are a bit more specific, these would be true even if there was a limit of 2 billion items for buy and 100 items for sell, ofcourse making you a donkey in the process :P

Odds are because of the fact that when you’re selling items, the server has to make sure there’s no conflicting sales attempting to make a sale at the same time. While I’m no where near 100% (let alone 10%) confident this IS true, my guess is that the tradepost isnt actually doing instantaneous transactions. Sure we get gold and lose the item instantly and vice versa, but I think the TP server is taking a successive list of transactions in a given timeframe (say, 5 seconds) and running a FIFO transaction method with the transactions based on current stock. It’s probably using a predictive method in addition in this case to make sure it’s not giving out “fake” gold or items. But of course, this is also probably entirely wrong. Who knows.

Dante.1508:

Shadelang.3012:

Dante.1508:

John Smith.4610:

Things YOU know as facts:
1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up – what?
Things devs have stated as facts in the past:
-series of random ad hominems that clearly make your points more valid…right?

Just because you don’t see the technical implementation of some aspects of the systems doesn’t mean it’s magic.

Do you really need to be so condescending about it?

Even if he WAS being condescending (And I don’t feel like he was in truth. Atleast no more than was deserved due to the assumptive nature of the post hes responding to) the forums have shown that that attitude is the only one players actually respond too.

When they try to be uber polite they are often looked down on by the very people who have been demanding answers. (Perhaps the fact that they are DEMANDING answers is a sign?)

But John Smith in particular has a good bit more respect on the forums precisely because he doesn’t always take peoples kitten.

If people are talking out of there kitten they need to be shut down. Whether it be a player or a developer. Because on a public forum misinformation can be spread like fact. Even if it has no basis in reality.

I understand customers being kitten, its everywhere me included when i’m upset but i figured Developers were professionals and well were supposedly on another level etc.

Aren’t they suppose to be polite to their customers either way, honestly talking down to them doesn’t help at all and well imo no wonder the forums so hostile to them..

I am sorry, but this is exactly the attitude that makes people be intolerable kittenbags towards employees and then expect them to still be friendly and helping. If a customer is a condescending kittenbag it is only deserved when they are shown their place.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

General Health.9678:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So the issue clearly isn’t technical.

Clearly /s
Despite the redname post above.
Clearly /s

Things we know as facts:

1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations.
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up

I’ll stick with the facts over the red posts, thanks though.

Calling John a liar and giving themselves expert level above those actually working with and on the system is just stupid and John’s answer is simply on point. Kudos to John!

And seriously, the biggest limitation there is to buying and selling is the limit of 250 units for any single purchase. If that isn’t an indicator, what is?

Edit: And how would ZudetGambeous.9573 even come to the conclusion that they could pick up an unlimited number of items from the TP at once? There is a maximum of 100 stacks per pick up process iirc.

Folks, if the best thing you can find to do in the game is bicker with the devs on the forum then, truly, you are done with the game.

I’ve got almost 30 years as a software engineer and I can assure you that software is definitely not magic. It’s way more complicated than that.

John Smith.4610:

Things YOU know as facts:
1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up – what?
Things devs have stated as facts in the past:
-series of random ad hominems that clearly make your points more valid…right?

Just because you don’t see the technical implementation of some aspects of the systems doesn’t mean it’s magic.

Okay, you had your little rant against what you seem to see as unjustified criticisms, how about actually trying to explain WHY this apparently arbitrary and player-hostile limitation is actually based on TECHNICAL reasons when no other game I play (or I expect most others play) has anything like this alleged design flaw.

Kraggy.4169:

Okay, you had your little rant against what you seem to see as unjustified criticisms, how about actually trying to explain WHY this apparently arbitrary and player-hostile limitation is actually based on TECHNICAL reasons when no other game I play (or I expect most others play) has anything like this alleged design flaw.

Other games you play don’t have trading posts, they have simplistic auction houses that allow inflation to ruin the game’s economy.

Because this game has a robust economy, it requires a significantly more complex trading system, which by it’s very nature is going to be subject to more technical limitations as a result of trying to do a lot more.

mtpelion.4562:

Kraggy.4169:

Okay, you had your little rant against what you seem to see as unjustified criticisms, how about actually trying to explain WHY this apparently arbitrary and player-hostile limitation is actually based on TECHNICAL reasons when no other game I play (or I expect most others play) has anything like this alleged design flaw.

Other games you play don’t have trading posts, they have simplistic auction houses that allow inflation to ruin the game’s economy.

Because this game has a robust economy, it requires a significantly more complex trading system, which by it’s very nature is going to be subject to more technical limitations as a result of trying to do a lot more.

Not to mention most games with AH still have listing limitations.

CO has had a global TP since it launched in ’09, but has never had the player base that GW2 does.

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

BTW, global TP seems like a great decision. For you to manage, and for us to use alike.
Thanks for that.

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

Hi John, just my 2 cents.
I guess the technical limitation has something to do with the database and the amount of querys some amount of players can do before the DB cache queue get fills up (AKA beginning to lose transactions.

I would in your case implement a double queue system: Your TP already have in place one (i guess).

At the client side i would implement an internal queue where the items that the player want to sell are queued. Those items are listed in the TP as soon as possible if the limit is reached it tries in X seconds/minutes.
If the player close the game before those items are listed they are returned to the player to his inventory.

For the player would not be any visual difference and would solve the hindrance of the limit pop up, the TP could get some breather because you could decide what are the limit of quees x second and player could be the limits of the amount of items posted per x time.

And at security level wouldn’t change much, simply would be another “hidden space” were those items could be placed while waiting to be listed in the TP. If those have to be returned because the player closed the game before they could be listed and his bags are full again, it could be given back in a way similar to a daily chest so the player can try to list them again in the TP as soon as he is able to free up the bag.

Sure it will need some coding, but the change shouldn’t be very invasive, is simply creating a queuing interface to handle the listing.

anduriell.6280:

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

Hi John, just my 2 cents.
I guess the technical limitation has something to do with the database and the amount of querys some amount of players can do before the DB cache queue get fills up (AKA beginning to lose transactions.

I would in your case implement a double queue system: Your TP already have in place one (i guess).

At the client side i would implement an internal queue where the items that the player want to sell are queued. Those items are listed in the TP as soon as possible if the limit is reached it tries in X seconds/minutes.
If the player close the game before those items are listed they are returned to the player to his inventory.

For the player would not be any visual difference and would solve the hindrance of the limit pop up, the TP could get some breather because you could decide what are the limit of quees x second and player could be the limits of the amount of items posted per x time.

And at security level wouldn’t change much, simply would be another “hidden space” were those items could be placed while waiting to be listed in the TP. If those have to be returned because the player closed the game before they could be listed and his bags are full again, it could be given back in a way similar to a daily chest so the player can try to list them again in the TP as soon as he is able to free up the bag.

Sure it will need some coding, but the change shouldn’t be very invasive, is simply creating a queuing interface to handle the listing.

This seems like a great idea! A Visual TP Queue. And it shouldn’t be hard to implement either(coding wise). Art-wise, the TP UI would just need an extra visual tab I suppose.

The main problem I suspect is synchronous transactions rather than an asynchronous que which you are suggestion would fix things a lot.

The only transactions which should be sync would be insta sell ones- the rest can be async

If anyone is interested I presume you mean something what this describes
https://blog.codepath.com/2013/01/06/asynchronous-processing-in-web-applications-part-2-developers-need-to-understand-message-queues/

I think of it as being analogous to a CPU time slice in a multitasking OS, a limit that allows others to get a crack at the database when selling an object.

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

Runescape, and I would say the player base is 10x greater than GW2 if not more…
Not trying to add to the negative here but just saying.

Having said that, TY for the info earlier about this being a limitation thing and not the game accusing me of being a bot. At least with this I can bear the annoyance somewhat more.

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

While it’s structured a little differently, I’d really be surprised if EVE Online’s market wasn’t significantly larger that GW2’s. Their’s is also global, as all EVE players share the same universe (barring China).

Dante.1508:

John Smith.4610:

Things YOU know as facts:
1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up – what?
Things devs have stated as facts in the past:
-series of random ad hominems that clearly make your points more valid…right?

Just because you don’t see the technical implementation of some aspects of the systems doesn’t mean it’s magic.

Do you really need to be so condescending about it?

It kind of comes across as a rant, doesn’kitten lol

The message really does gives players the impression that we can’t sell a certain number of items because they’ve got bot restrictions in place – like they have DR in place – it always amazes me how low the number is, though, of items that you can sell before this pops up. And I’ve never seen whatever posts there are out there stating that this isn’t bot related, so had no idea it was anything else. Still seems weird, though.

the only work around to this selling too much to fast thing working for me is simply collecting your stuff from the tp vendor and then trying to sell or buy again , it only seems to happen if the player keeps trying to buy and sell tons of items and not collect any

Tamasan.6457:

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

While it’s structured a little differently, I’d really be surprised if EVE Online’s market wasn’t significantly larger that GW2’s. Their’s is also global, as all EVE players share the same universe (barring China).

Reinventing the wheel is the pitfall of this industry, every developer thinks he is the first and only to tackle a specific problem or have a specific feature.

For example in EVE, they treated offloading skill effect computations and the subsequent caching of the final number (5% from skill1 + 15% from skill 8 …) as a somewhat technological revolution a while back

John Smith.4610:

anduriell.6280:

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

Hi John, just my 2 cents.
I guess the technical limitation has something to do with the database and the amount of querys some amount of players can do before the DB cache queue get fills up (AKA beginning to lose transactions.

I would in your case implement a double queue system: Your TP already have in place one (i guess).

At the client side i would implement an internal queue where the items that the player want to sell are queued. Those items are listed in the TP as soon as possible if the limit is reached it tries in X seconds/minutes.
If the player close the game before those items are listed they are returned to the player to his inventory.

For the player would not be any visual difference and would solve the hindrance of the limit pop up, the TP could get some breather because you could decide what are the limit of quees x second and player could be the limits of the amount of items posted per x time.

And at security level wouldn’t change much, simply would be another “hidden space” were those items could be placed while waiting to be listed in the TP. If those have to be returned because the player closed the game before they could be listed and his bags are full again, it could be given back in a way similar to a daily chest so the player can try to list them again in the TP as soon as he is able to free up the bag.

Sure it will need some coding, but the change shouldn’t be very invasive, is simply creating a queuing interface to handle the listing.

These are some interesting ideas, but I’m afraid they don’t address the root issues. I’m not at liberty to discuss the architecture of the game, but the problems are harder than what you’re thinking. That being said, are they fixable? Yes. Do we know how to fix them? Yes. Are we going to spend man-years doing it so people can sell items faster on the TP? Probably not. There’s just bigger fish to fry.

Something smells fishy…

John Smith.4610:

anduriell.6280:

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

Hi John, just my 2 cents.
I guess the technical limitation has something to do with the database and the amount of querys some amount of players can do before the DB cache queue get fills up (AKA beginning to lose transactions.

I would in your case implement a double queue system: Your TP already have in place one (i guess).

At the client side i would implement an internal queue where the items that the player want to sell are queued. Those items are listed in the TP as soon as possible if the limit is reached it tries in X seconds/minutes.
If the player close the game before those items are listed they are returned to the player to his inventory.

For the player would not be any visual difference and would solve the hindrance of the limit pop up, the TP could get some breather because you could decide what are the limit of quees x second and player could be the limits of the amount of items posted per x time.

And at security level wouldn’t change much, simply would be another “hidden space” were those items could be placed while waiting to be listed in the TP. If those have to be returned because the player closed the game before they could be listed and his bags are full again, it could be given back in a way similar to a daily chest so the player can try to list them again in the TP as soon as he is able to free up the bag.

Sure it will need some coding, but the change shouldn’t be very invasive, is simply creating a queuing interface to handle the listing.

These are some interesting ideas, but I’m afraid they don’t address the root issues. I’m not at liberty to discuss the architecture of the game, but the problems are harder than what you’re thinking. That being said, are they fixable? Yes. Do we know how to fix them? Yes. Are we going to spend man-years doing it so people can sell items faster on the TP? Probably not. There’s just bigger fish to fry.

Well I think we have our answer – they know its a bug that is annoying people and has been since the game launched, but its not worth their time to fix it. Cool.

Josh XT.6053:

Well I think we have our answer – they know its a bug that is annoying people and has been since the game launched, but its not worth their time to fix it. Cool.

Software and hardware limitations are not bugs.
Limitations do not indicate failure to work as intended.

Josh XT.6053:

John Smith.4610:

anduriell.6280:

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

Hi John, just my 2 cents.
I guess the technical limitation has something to do with the database and the amount of querys some amount of players can do before the DB cache queue get fills up (AKA beginning to lose transactions.

I would in your case implement a double queue system: Your TP already have in place one (i guess).

At the client side i would implement an internal queue where the items that the player want to sell are queued. Those items are listed in the TP as soon as possible if the limit is reached it tries in X seconds/minutes.
If the player close the game before those items are listed they are returned to the player to his inventory.

For the player would not be any visual difference and would solve the hindrance of the limit pop up, the TP could get some breather because you could decide what are the limit of quees x second and player could be the limits of the amount of items posted per x time.

And at security level wouldn’t change much, simply would be another “hidden space” were those items could be placed while waiting to be listed in the TP. If those have to be returned because the player closed the game before they could be listed and his bags are full again, it could be given back in a way similar to a daily chest so the player can try to list them again in the TP as soon as he is able to free up the bag.

Sure it will need some coding, but the change shouldn’t be very invasive, is simply creating a queuing interface to handle the listing.

These are some interesting ideas, but I’m afraid they don’t address the root issues. I’m not at liberty to discuss the architecture of the game, but the problems are harder than what you’re thinking. That being said, are they fixable? Yes. Do we know how to fix them? Yes. Are we going to spend man-years doing it so people can sell items faster on the TP? Probably not. There’s just bigger fish to fry.

Well I think we have our answer – they know its a bug that is annoying people and has been since the game launched, but its not worth their time to fix it. Cool.

It’s called, only so many dev hours in the day.

If changing something is going to be more labor intensive than what the payoff will give you then it’s low on the list of things to do. Personally I’d rather they spend the time fixing actual bugs than a minor annoyance.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s called, only so many dev hours in the day.

That’s why they should support addons, so we can fix or work around the problems. Spam for example is trivial to counter on the client side. In this case, simply allow redirecting the trading post to a local server.

Back before the trading post was updated, I was working on a project that did just that, which was technically against the rules. I had extra features such as pricing history, searching for components within items, caching to greatly speed up searches and sell queuing to work around this specific issue. Imagine being able to select a group of items and selling them all at once with a single button. I haven’t touched it since then however and originally stopped working on it after finding hints of a trading post update in the code months prior to its release.

It might be low on your list of priorities, but it’s all the way up high on my list of daily annoyances. My god man, if I can sell the first few things quickly, just let me sell the rest too, instead of having to wait 15 seconds between sales. I’m rather sure the few of us commenting aren’t the only people who get annoyed by it… We’re just annoyed enough to speak up about it. This is one of the main errors EVERYONE in the game has to deal with. Tiny, cute lil’ fish can still stink

TL;DR:
Kitten just fix it already q.q kitten.

Luna.1839:

It might be low on your list of priorities, but it’s all the way up high on my list of daily annoyances. My god man, if I can sell the first few things quickly, just let me sell the rest too, instead of having to wait 15 seconds between sales. I’m rather sure the few of us commenting aren’t the only people who get annoyed by it… We’re just annoyed enough to speak up about it. This is one of the main errors EVERYONE in the game has to deal with. Tiny, cute lil’ fish can still stink

TL;DR:
Kitten just fix it already q.q kitten.

And I’d rather they fix things that have a bigger negative impact on the game. Like making sure inflation stays in check. That a particular mat isn’t vendor trash but at the same time doesn’t skyrocket to ridiculously expensive for what it is.

To talking with the living story people and the raid people to help add reward systems that won’t destroy the economy.

There are higher priority things on their list than making the time frame where you can sell sell sell longer. Especially if they think their current solution would only add a fraction of the current time.

And it may be devoted to pet project status where someone (or group of someones) work on it when they’ve got nothing else that they can work on at the moment, which I imagine given the size of ANet doesn’t happen often.

If we could maybe trade 1000 units each time would help a lot and I sure that will not slow the server down.

Luna.1839:

It might be low on your list of priorities, but it’s all the way up high on my list of daily annoyances. My god man, if I can sell the first few things quickly, just let me sell the rest too, instead of having to wait 15 seconds between sales. I’m rather sure the few of us commenting aren’t the only people who get annoyed by it… We’re just annoyed enough to speak up about it. This is one of the main errors EVERYONE in the game has to deal with. Tiny, cute lil’ fish can still stink

TL;DR:
Kitten just fix it already q.q kitten.

It’s not one of the main errors for EVERYONE. I have only encountered it twice in my 3.5 years of playing and I buy & sell every day. Lots of people will never encounter it.

Even if it did affect most people, we don’t know what the fix would involve. Suppose it required overhauling the entire TP queuing system, then fixing it would be an amount of work equivalent to adding a second TP in the game. That same work could go into building a wardrobe that works for runes|sigils and infusions or another couple of mastery tracks. If that’s the case, is fixing this particular issue really worth their time?

I’m sorry that this issue crops up and that people are slowed down by it. Interface issues are always the most annoying, since the UI should be about reducing the boring stuff and letting us focus on the fun. But there are always going to be more ideas of how to improve it than there are developers to go around.

Healix.5819:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s called, only so many dev hours in the day.

That’s why they should support addons, so we can fix or work around the problems. Spam for example is trivial to counter on the client side. In this case, simply allow redirecting the trading post to a local server.

Back before the trading post was updated, I was working on a project that did just that, which was technically against the rules. I had extra features such as pricing history, searching for components within items, caching to greatly speed up searches and sell queuing to work around this specific issue. Imagine being able to select a group of items and selling them all at once with a single button. I haven’t touched it since then however and originally stopped working on it after finding hints of a trading post update in the code months prior to its release.

An add-on wouldnt do kitten to fix this “problem” with the TP because such an add-on would likely need to ACCESS server infrastructure to do it’s job. That’s something Anet’s not going to allow happen even if hell freezes over in a nuclear winter.

It’s true, this is more of an annoyance than anything else. It would be nice if it would go away, but it sounds like it would be complicated. And think, too, of what would happen if the fix turned out to be a break…. Guess I’ll just have to endure it. I have for this long, and it hasn’t buried me yet.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Dante.1508:

John Smith.4610:

Things YOU know as facts:
1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up – what?
Things devs have stated as facts in the past:
-series of random ad hominems that clearly make your points more valid…right?

Just because you don’t see the technical implementation of some aspects of the systems doesn’t mean it’s magic.

Do you really need to be so condescending about it?

It kind of comes across as a rant, doesn’kitten lol

The message really does gives players the impression that we can’t sell a certain number of items because they’ve got bot restrictions in place – like they have DR in place – it always amazes me how low the number is, though, of items that you can sell before this pops up. And I’ve never seen whatever posts there are out there stating that this isn’t bot related, so had no idea it was anything else. Still seems weird, though.

I actually had this happen to me when i was trying to add heaps of dyes to the AH.. Was very annoying and i figured it was just poor server connectivity, now i’m not so sure.

Either way its pretty annoying but that seems to be the thing in Guildwars 2.

Personally would prefer they fix the loot drops so i actually have something worth putting on the AH… lol

I’ve never encountered this issue. How do people sell things that causes this to happen? Is it by clicking the ‘Sell Instantly’ button repeatedly? Or listing large amounts of items? Just curious.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’ve never encountered this issue. How do people sell things that causes this to happen? Is it by clicking the ‘Sell Instantly’ button repeatedly? Or listing large amounts of items? Just curious.

I get this a lot and I don’t sell large quantities of the same item. I’m just selling a lot of different items all in a row. I usually sell once my bags are full by right clicking wherever I am and selling off my stuff. That’s my experience.

Hmm. I never use the ‘right-click to sell’ feature; I always open the Trading Post window to sell. Maybe that’s the difference. /shrug

Celtic Lady.3729:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’ve never encountered this issue. How do people sell things that causes this to happen? Is it by clicking the ‘Sell Instantly’ button repeatedly? Or listing large amounts of items? Just curious.

I get this a lot and I don’t sell large quantities of the same item. I’m just selling a lot of different items all in a row. I usually sell once my bags are full by right clicking wherever I am and selling off my stuff. That’s my experience.

That’s the biggest issue for me, it hits people that explore and graze mats and sell after each trip as they have a small numbers of lots of different mats. To combat this I’ve tried to farm 1 location over and over so when it’s time to sell I only have a dozen different stacks, but that brings up the next issue if you do this, DR which is a ant-bot measure… but I’m not a bot! T.T

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Hmm. I never use the ‘right-click to sell’ feature; I always open the Trading Post window to sell. Maybe that’s the difference. /shrug

I’ve been going on a trek through Tyria gathering and I’ve been selling the mats I don’t need when I get to the portal to the next map. I typically have about 10-15 unique items to sell. I open the trading post window to sell and I typically can sell down to 2-5 items before I start getting the error.

But I go pretty quickly as I don’t sit and analyze whether sell order or sell instantly is better. Mats get listed, gems/jewels/runes get sold immediately.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Hmm. I never use the ‘right-click to sell’ feature; I always open the Trading Post window to sell. Maybe that’s the difference. /shrug

I think it’s less about the selling method, and more about the quantity in a short amount of time.

John Smith.4610:

These are some interesting ideas, but I’m afraid they don’t address the root issues. I’m not at liberty to discuss the architecture of the game, but the problems are harder than what you’re thinking. That being said, are they fixable? Yes. Do we know how to fix them? Yes. Are we going to spend man-years doing it so people can sell items faster on the TP? Probably not. There’s just bigger fish to fry.

yeah i understand, my advise is only good if the client is designed to handle some of the ingame events, wich clearly it doesn’t.

if the inventory is handled exclusively by server side trying to create that interface to handle the listing would might need too many changes in the game engine (i don’t expect years but probably many weeks or even some months).

so i agree with you, there is a bigger fish to fry. Also thanks for the acknowledgement.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Hmm. I never use the ‘right-click to sell’ feature; I always open the Trading Post window to sell. Maybe that’s the difference. /shrug

No, unfortunately. I use the trading post window, and I get this all the time.

nosleepdemon.1368:

Josh XT.6053:

John Smith.4610:

Things YOU know as facts:
1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up – what?
Things devs have stated as facts in the past:
-series of random ad hominems that clearly make your points more valid…right?

Just because you don’t see the technical implementation of some aspects of the systems doesn’t mean it’s magic.

Doesn’t really answer any questions. I know as a fact that software development isn’t magic, I’ve been doing it for 20 years. The limitations are generally set by hardware or network connections. If those are your limitations – upgrade. See NCSoft earnings report and tell me how this isn’t possible.

I don’t really know why you’re being defensive about it, lets try to be constructive and think about what can be done. Why are other games not limited in the way that you are? Maybe utilize your community who may just have some ideas you missed.

I pegged you for a dba or sql monkey until I read about your theory that limitations in software engineering are generally either hardware or network based. Now I can only assume you are in fact, not a programmer at all.

Just saw your reply, made me laugh a little.

Now, if you are a programmer – you might just be a programmer that is stuck on one programming language if you don’t believe me. Programming in general is limited only by hardware and the mind of the person writing the code. Now I may not be able to do something in PHP that I can do in C#, that is just because different languages are better at certain things than others. But programming is always only limited by hardware. Unless of course the programmer behind the screen doesn’t know how to do something, then its limited by user and hardware.

Source: 20 years programming experience between 14 different programming languages on both Windows and Linux platforms.

DGraves.3720:

Software and hardware limitations are not bugs.
Limitations do not indicate failure to work as intended.

So much this, the whole trading post is essentially a very complicated Web API/Application. Not necessarily complicated though because the API is defined to be complex or the front end implementation is complex, although it certainly can be (haven’t looked, let alone compared or evaluated the design of their public API’s).

What makes it complex is that it is not just a web site that implements an API and has to scale really well, but also that it has to interface with potentially several foreign interfaces that were originally designed to be interacted in an entirely different environment (ie. the game client/server connections).

Although John Smith said that he is not at liberty to discuss the game architecture, and while the architecture for the public API’s is no doubt an order of magnitude different (and likely simple, when looked at from the outside, as it plays by vastly different rules) than the internal TP API’s the tidbits their API developer who frequents that section of the forums has divulged both about the API setup and even some vague details that can be inferred about the actual games architecture is truly interesting to read.

Josh XT.6053:

Well I think we have our answer – they know its a bug that is annoying people and has been since the game launched, but its not worth their time to fix it. Cool.

You design an API to be fit for purpose, trying to predict future… especially in a scenario where scalability is such a huge factor is not productive. While good API design is both stable and expandable, accounting for what if scenarios just in case you might run in to issues during development or after deployment is not something you should spend a great deal of time on.

Also, the TP has to interact with systems that are very much foreign to it, that likely both pre-date it and, while central to the game, might impose limitations to this different use case of those system in the context of the TP. The limitation might not even directly relate to the TP itself… it could very well just be something that floats up the chain and we perceive it problem with the TP because the limitation is only triggered through the use of the TP.

The way John phrased it, is that this issue is not even on their “priority list” or a list of known issues to be fixed at all. And yes, while it sucks… I wouldn’t want them throwing what is likely senior development staff on this issue for years to come. They did this with culling and for a great reason, however, with culling parts of the game were rendered literally not fit for purpose. TP is, however, fit for purpose now… does it scale perfectly no, but it isn’t broken either.

If you list your item as lowest seller, you’ll never get this warning.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Luna.1839:

It might be low on your list of priorities, but it’s all the way up high on my list of daily annoyances. My god man, if I can sell the first few things quickly, just let me sell the rest too, instead of having to wait 15 seconds between sales. I’m rather sure the few of us commenting aren’t the only people who get annoyed by it… We’re just annoyed enough to speak up about it. This is one of the main errors EVERYONE in the game has to deal with. Tiny, cute lil’ fish can still stink

TL;DR:
Kitten just fix it already q.q kitten.

It’s not one of the main errors for EVERYONE. I have only encountered it twice in my 3.5 years of playing and I buy & sell every day. Lots of people will never encounter it.

Even if it did affect most people, we don’t know what the fix would involve. Suppose it required overhauling the entire TP queuing system, then fixing it would be an amount of work equivalent to adding a second TP in the game. That same work could go into building a wardrobe that works for runes|sigils and infusions or another couple of mastery tracks. If that’s the case, is fixing this particular issue really worth their time?

I’m sorry that this issue crops up and that people are slowed down by it. Interface issues are always the most annoying, since the UI should be about reducing the boring stuff and letting us focus on the fun. But there are always going to be more ideas of how to improve it than there are developers to go around.

if you’ve only encountered it twice then you haven’t traded much or you spend way too much time thinking about what price you want to set something at, any time I’m trying to sell 7 or more items at the same time it happens, in 3.5 years I’ve had it happen usually atleast once a day when I play, even when I sell stuff as I go.

Tamasan.6457:

John Smith.4610:

This game also has a global TP, not a server based TP. As far as I know, there isn’t another game TP that’s within an order of magnitude of scale of this one.

While it’s structured a little differently, I’d really be surprised if EVE Online’s market wasn’t significantly larger that GW2’s. Their’s is also global, as all EVE players share the same universe (barring China).

The thing with EvE’s market, last I remember, was that it was still based around the region you placed the items on sale. There wasn’t a global market you could just access from anywhere in game. If you put up a bunch of modules for sale in Jita, some guy way off in Amarr space wouldn’t be able to buy them without flying into range of the station where you listed them.

Despite being a single shard server, the game world was still largely segmented into instances via star systems and space regions etc. It probably made for a much easier to handle system.

EvilTwin.4125:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Hmm. I never use the ‘right-click to sell’ feature; I always open the Trading Post window to sell. Maybe that’s the difference. /shrug

No, unfortunately. I use the trading post window, and I get this all the time.

Me too and it is super annoying.

Josh XT.6053:

nosleepdemon.1368:

Josh XT.6053:

John Smith.4610:

Things YOU know as facts:
1. I can buy unlimited items off the Tp without any server limitations- FALSE
2. I can pick up unlimited items into my inventory from the TP without any server limitations – FALSE
3. I can set arbitrary buy order prices at unlimited speed without server limitations. – FALSE
4. Doing any of these things in reverse (selling) causes an error to pop up – what?
Things devs have stated as facts in the past:
-series of random ad hominems that clearly make your points more valid…right?

Just because you don’t see the technical implementation of some aspects of the systems doesn’t mean it’s magic.

Doesn’t really answer any questions. I know as a fact that software development isn’t magic, I’ve been doing it for 20 years. The limitations are generally set by hardware or network connections. If those are your limitations – upgrade. See NCSoft earnings report and tell me how this isn’t possible.

I don’t really know why you’re being defensive about it, lets try to be constructive and think about what can be done. Why are other games not limited in the way that you are? Maybe utilize your community who may just have some ideas you missed.

I pegged you for a dba or sql monkey until I read about your theory that limitations in software engineering are generally either hardware or network based. Now I can only assume you are in fact, not a programmer at all.

Just saw your reply, made me laugh a little.

Now, if you are a programmer – you might just be a programmer that is stuck on one programming language if you don’t believe me. Programming in general is limited only by hardware and the mind of the person writing the code. Now I may not be able to do something in PHP that I can do in C#, that is just because different languages are better at certain things than others. But programming is always only limited by hardware. Unless of course the programmer behind the screen doesn’t know how to do something, then its limited by user and hardware.

Source: 20 years programming experience between 14 different programming languages on both Windows and Linux platforms.

While you’re technically correct, an algorithm with low efficiency and subsequently “bad” performance (in the eyes of a user) cannot simply just have blame shifted to lack of hardware support. You should know well about NP-hard problems and the complexity of concurrent systems, which, while solvable and may have ways to tune and tweak performance gains, may not simply have good solutions which hardware can make up the gap. This is especially exacerbated with OS/scheduler involvement disabling processes in potential multi-core systems.

That said, I’m not sure if it’s fair for John to say that the solutions to fix the problem are known. If the solutions are truthfully known, then implementing the fix would not be difficult. There’s a substantial difference between knowing that a solution/potential improvement exists and knowing the solution. Typically, such lack of priority or inattentiveness is the result of the former being true while the latter not being true.