This needs to stop

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Posted by: Goose.5196

Goose.5196

I have seen a lot of threads discussing things that people would like to be added or changed about the game. It ranges from making conditions on par with direct damage dealers in group settings to the request for meaningful end game content such as dungeons. However, the replies are always the same. People constantly bash the individual and announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed. Here is the thing though: If the game added new dungeons or made conditions better, how would that take away from you want in the game?

We have all invested a great amount of time into this game, some more than others. Some people would like to see content more geared toward their tastes. It is not enough to just dismiss them and tell them to go play another game. They have invested their time and money into this game. They are politely letting ANet know what would keep them coming back and spending more money. They are not trying to destroy your experience, they are just trying to work with ANet so that people like them won’t just move on.

I have been playing this game since launch and I am not crazy about Living Story, but I am not saying that they should stop doing that. No one is. Most people who complain about Living Story complain because they see it as a substitute for what they really want out of this game. There is no reason ANet cannot attempt to please both crowds.

I don’t want more things to get, I want more things to do.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You’re right in some ways…and not so right in others.

Yes, everyone has a right to ask for the features they want. However, some of those features, it was clear from day one, were never meant to be in this game, including open world PvP and mounts, both of which Anet said they weren’t doing.

Anet is working towards making a living world, and that’s their focus. It’s not all they’ll be doing,. but it is a focus.

That means that if you’re not interested in what they’re doing and interested in, you’re not really interested in Anet’s game.

Now if you were complaining about a way to make the world more of a living world, you’d be more or less on the same page as the developers. That’s their vision. It’s been their vision since the very beginning.

It’s why instanced raids are not likely to be a part of this game. Anet doesn’t want to people people long term out of the world. So those asking for it, of course can ask for it.

But it would be silly for those who believe it won’t happen because it will go against game design to not say something in response also.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I imagine people that are not giddy over say, adding more dungeons, feel that if the Devs used their resources to add such content it would be seen as a substitute for what they want out of the game. It kind of works both ways.

I’m not bashing those that would prefer more dungeons, or more PvP modes, or GvG, or (insert preferred game content here), those specified just aren’t something I would want resources concentrated on. Hopefully, in the years to come, something will be added for everyone. =)

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Posted by: Andred.1087

Andred.1087

People constantly… announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed.

I think that might be exaggerating a little.

Also you’ll find most of the “bashing” that goes on is related to people bringing up topics that have been discussed countless times (typically to no avail). It’s kind of like eternal September. People who have been around for a while are tired of seeing the exact same requests by new forum visitors for things that ANet clearly has no interest in. Doesn’t help that the search function completely does not work.

That said, it kind of shifts. Some days there are a lot of (ostensibly) whiny people with irrational complaints, other days there is an excess of people whose only apparent goal is to put others “in line,” even when they do bring up some valid points. Of course, reality isn’t black and white.

In the end, I have to agree that people are too aggressive on here and online everywhere, but that’s everywhere. We may not live to see a day where this is not the case.

“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs

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Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

I don’t think people announce that the game is basically perfect. It is more like “act like” the game is basically perfect.

The truth to me is if people dont’ like the game in some way they complain. I used to spend a good share of my time telling people that their complaint is nuisance. But in the end I think if people strongly felt about complaining something, it is non of my business to tell them I disagree with them and they need to agree with me.

After all, forum is there to express opinion, not tell people to agree with you.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

However, the replies are always the same. People constantly bash the individual and announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed.

I don’t think you and I go to the same forums…

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

However, the replies are always the same. People constantly bash the individual and announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed.

I don’t think you and I go to the same forums…

This made me laugh. It’s true though. There are far more people attacking me for being a “fan boy” or “white knight” as there are people attacking people for their complaints. I don’t see a lot of people being attacked for their views in the trait feedback thread as an example.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

However, the replies are always the same. People constantly bash the individual and announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed.

I don’t think you and I go to the same forums…

This made me laugh. It’s true though. There are far more people attacking me for being a “fan boy” or “white knight” as there are people attacking people for their complaints. I don’t see a lot of people being attacked for their views in the trait feedback thread as an example.

It’s kind of easy to get agreement on something so universally bad. =P

Still, it’s okay to ask for features. What’s unnecessary is the constant vomit of bile that comes from some people, while others are trying to either make valid points or, even better, give the design team ideas by providing a method to achieve what it is they want.

So, complain, no.
Solve, yes.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

However, the replies are always the same. People constantly bash the individual and announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed.

I don’t think you and I go to the same forums…

This made me laugh. It’s true though. There are far more people attacking me for being a “fan boy” or “white knight” as there are people attacking people for their complaints. I don’t see a lot of people being attacked for their views in the trait feedback thread as an example.

It’s kind of easy to get agreement on something so universally bad. =P

Still, it’s okay to ask for features. What’s unnecessary is the constant vomit of bile that comes from some people, while others are trying to either make valid points or, even better, give the design team ideas by providing a method to achieve what it is they want.

So, complain, no.
Solve, yes.

Most game I saw wait very long time to resolve players complaint. It usually take a expansion or big update change so people might be complaining half to a year before the complaint is addressed.

The thing is the game have been out for nearly 2 years. I’m not sure if they even going to have a big expansion, and if the expansion will create a big overhaul and changes to the current system like other games have. When other games make a new expansion it is like playing a completely new game.

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Posted by: Wolfheart.1938

Wolfheart.1938

Well, it was clear to me since day 1 that endgame gear wasn’t supposed to be a grind, yet due to popular demand of “more to do” here we are with Ascended. So I don’t see why you think it’s so unlikely that given a big enough demand (mounts & duels come to mind) their plans could change.

Design decisions change all the time. Who are we to decide what is likely and what isn’t? What fits and what doesn’t? It’s not like we have access to design documents.

“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”

(edited by Wolfheart.1938)

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

I have seen a lot of threads discussing things that people would like to be added or changed about the game. It ranges from making conditions on par with direct damage dealers in group settings to the request for meaningful end game content such as dungeons. However, the replies are always the same. People constantly bash the individual and announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed. Here is the thing though: If the game added new dungeons or made conditions better, how would that take away from you want in the game?

We have all invested a great amount of time into this game, some more than others. Some people would like to see content more geared toward their tastes. It is not enough to just dismiss them and tell them to go play another game. They have invested their time and money into this game. They are politely letting ANet know what would keep them coming back and spending more money. They are not trying to destroy your experience, they are just trying to work with ANet so that people like them won’t just move on.

I have been playing this game since launch and I am not crazy about Living Story, but I am not saying that they should stop doing that. No one is. Most people who complain about Living Story complain because they see it as a substitute for what they really want out of this game. There is no reason ANet cannot attempt to please both crowds.

Thank you and let me just say I can already see some of the people who replied to your thread are some of the major offenders who pretty much dismisses what you say if you point out something, people don’t come here to complain about the game to troll, we come here because we’re passionate about where it’s going. We come here to help make it into the game we were convinced it would be via the sheer number of prelaunch promises in interviews, and the manifesto. If I didn’t care about this game I would not be here I have so many more pressing things to do right now.

I just don’t get how people can be so oblivious like how can these offenders sit there and say something doesn’t happen when it happens to people like me weekly, or that it’s somehow the players’ fault that loot doesn’t drop like it should, that rewards aren’t there with common activities, that combat is as broken as it is in PVE unless you’re Zerker etc etc. Like what goes through these people’s minds do they get into a car wreck and then deny the other car ever hit them? Do they not pay a bill and then deny that collections will ever come after them? Do they accidentally leave the oven on and then deny that their house will burn down? I just don’t understand, there comes a point when reality comes crashing down even in a game and it’s about to hit the 2 year mark, like how long is too long to wait really and why aren’t these people on board?

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

I have seen a lot of threads discussing things that people would like to be added or changed about the game. It ranges from making conditions on par with direct damage dealers in group settings to the request for meaningful end game content such as dungeons. However, the replies are always the same. People constantly bash the individual and announce that the game is basically perfect and that nothing needs to be changed. Here is the thing though: If the game added new dungeons or made conditions better, how would that take away from you want in the game?

We have all invested a great amount of time into this game, some more than others. Some people would like to see content more geared toward their tastes. It is not enough to just dismiss them and tell them to go play another game. They have invested their time and money into this game. They are politely letting ANet know what would keep them coming back and spending more money. They are not trying to destroy your experience, they are just trying to work with ANet so that people like them won’t just move on.

I have been playing this game since launch and I am not crazy about Living Story, but I am not saying that they should stop doing that. No one is. Most people who complain about Living Story complain because they see it as a substitute for what they really want out of this game. There is no reason ANet cannot attempt to please both crowds.

Thank you and let me just say I can already see some of the people who replied to your thread are some of the major offenders who pretty much dismisses what you say if you point out something, people don’t come here to complain about the game to troll, we come here because we’re passionate about where it’s going. We come here to help make it into the game we were convinced it would be via the sheer number of prelaunch promises in interviews, and the manifesto. If I didn’t care about this game I would not be here I have so many more pressing things to do right now.

I just don’t get how people can be so oblivious like how can these offenders sit there and say something doesn’t happen when it happens to people like me weekly, or that it’s somehow the players’ fault that loot doesn’t drop like it should, that rewards aren’t there with common activities, that combat is as broken as it is in PVE unless you’re Zerker etc etc. Like what goes through these people’s minds do they get into a car wreck and then deny the other car ever hit them? Do they not pay a bill and then deny that collections will ever come after them? Do they accidentally leave the oven on and then deny that their house will burn down? I just don’t understand, there comes a point when reality comes crashing down even in a game and it’s about to hit the 2 year mark, like how long is too long to wait really and why aren’t these people on board?

Good points. I do undertand the frustration, and why the people come to complain, and give what they call feedback, on a paticular area of the game, and how it needs to be changed. I get that people really do enjoy the game, and want it to prosper and grow even more. However, even with those intentions, much of what is put out under the guise of feedback, and suggestions, comes out as pure venom. People who get tired of the way loot works come on here, not to have a discussion, or to provide feedback, or offer suggestions, but to rant. Typically (not always, but generally) such threads look like this:
“The loot system sucks kitten!! This is bullkitten, I have MF at 250% but still only get blues and greens. Anet just want me to spend money on gems instead of giving better loot!!! Anet sucks, and the devs are stupid and don’t know up from down!! Fix it or I’ll quit!!!”

While the loot system is not perfect and could be updated and revamped, a better response would be something like:

“The current loot system isn’t the greatest. With such a high MF (250%) One would think that you should be getting better loot, instead I am getting blues and greens, which are unusable and vastly inferior to rares, or exotics. Is there a way that this can be addressed? I would suggest maybe instead of having increased “rolls” on the RNG table with a higher MF, maybe have a higher permenet “bonus” as a base line for all rolls. So say rare equipment drops at a “roll” of 1500. At 250% MF, the starting number would be 250, and whatever the “roll” is is added to that. Just an idea. Thanks!"

Both posts say basically the same thing, but the tone is very different. Those who also love the game, see the first type of post and take it as an attack on something they also invested time and energy in and love and feel a need to defend it. And in defending it can be just as harsh as those who are attacking.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Good points. I do undertand the frustration, and why the people come to complain, and give what they call feedback, on a paticular area of the game, and how it needs to be changed. I get that people really do enjoy the game, and want it to prosper and grow even more. However, even with those intentions, much of what is put out under the guise of feedback, and suggestions, comes out as pure venom. People who get tired of the way loot works come on here, not to have a discussion, or to provide feedback, or offer suggestions, but to rant. Typically (not always, but generally) such threads look like this:
“The loot system sucks kitten!! This is bullkitten, I have MF at 250% but still only get blues and greens. Anet just want me to spend money on gems instead of giving better loot!!! Anet sucks, and the devs are stupid and don’t know up from down!! Fix it or I’ll quit!!!”

While the loot system is not perfect and could be updated and revamped, a better response would be something like:

“The current loot system isn’t the greatest. With such a high MF (250%) One would think that you should be getting better loot, instead I am getting blues and greens, which are unusable and vastly inferior to rares, or exotics. Is there a way that this can be addressed? I would suggest maybe instead of having increased “rolls” on the RNG table with a higher MF, maybe have a higher permenet “bonus” as a base line for all rolls. So say rare equipment drops at a “roll” of 1500. At 250% MF, the starting number would be 250, and whatever the “roll” is is added to that. Just an idea. Thanks!"

Both posts say basically the same thing, but the tone is very different. Those who also love the game, see the first type of post and take it as an attack on something they also invested time and energy in and love and feel a need to defend it. And in defending it can be just as harsh as those who are attacking.

Expertly portrayed.
If anything, some of the kiddos around here (here = the internet) could use a few tutorials on tact and persuasion.
And problem solving technique.
And logic and debate. But that’s a different thread. <_<

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

Both posts say basically the same thing, but the tone is very different. Those who also love the game, see the first type of post and take it as an attack on something they also invested time and energy in and love and feel a need to defend it. And in defending it can be just as harsh as those who are attacking.

Well you see here’s the trouble. Some of us received the same reaction from the same defenders some of which are on this very thread, when we started posting in the suggestions and class forums 2 months after launch. We were just like you are now, considerate, quiet, less than passionate, but after being attacked so many times by these defenders (who really have nothing to defend because facts are facts and it’s gone far far beyond their excuse of “the game is new”) we get tired of it. It’s so bad that sometimes we wonder if these people work for the company, we really do because some of the things they say in their posts are nothing like what normal people with clear understanding of how the game works (or in this sense doesn’t work) would say after experiencing the same exact things by playing the game normally. Like people who’ve played the title know what it’s like in combat in the open world as someone with condition build, or they know what it’s like to not be able to farm Tier 6 materials properly to raise above the threshold in crafting on the way to 500. But these same people will defend the game blindly, defend an economy that does not work, and prevent those of us who are passionate about the game being right, the game being what we paid for, from being heard without confusing the issue at hand.

So you’ll forgive us if we get tired of the same old from people who might as well be hired by marketing if they aren’t already.

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

Both posts say basically the same thing, but the tone is very different. Those who also love the game, see the first type of post and take it as an attack on something they also invested time and energy in and love and feel a need to defend it. And in defending it can be just as harsh as those who are attacking.

Well you see here’s the trouble. Some of us received the same reaction from the same defenders some of which are on this very thread, when we started posting in the suggestions and class forums 2 months after launch. We were just like you are now, considerate, quiet, less than passionate, but after being attacked so many times by these defenders (who really have nothing to defend because facts are facts and it’s gone far far beyond their excuse of “the game is new”) we get tired of it. It’s so bad that sometimes we wonder if these people work for the company, we really do because some of the things they say in their posts are nothing like what normal people with clear understanding of how the game works (or in this sense doesn’t work) would say after experiencing the same exact things by playing the game normally. Like people who’ve played the title know what it’s like in combat in the open world as someone with condition build, or they know what it’s like to not be able to farm Tier 6 materials properly to raise above the threshold in crafting on the way to 500. But these same people will defend the game blindly, defend an economy that does not work, and prevent those of us who are passionate about the game being right, the game being what we paid for, from being heard without confusing the issue at hand.

So you’ll forgive us if we get tired of the same old from people who might as well be hired by marketing if they aren’t already.

Yeah I can get that. After trying for so long, it becomes very disheartening to feel that no one cares or is listening. However as one who plays and understands how the game works I myself am not blindy defending it. Do I feel that condition builds could use a rework? Definetly yes, I play a condition build. But do I feel it so broken that I need to rant about it? No. Do I understand that farming T6 can be a long and tedious endeavor? Oh god yes. Been farming them for my legendary. But I dont feel that the drop rate, or the methods to be able to get them are broken. The TP prices for them? daunting yes, but not a sign of inflation. These items are becoming much higher in demand, yet farmers and supply are not.

I guess its up to the individual to take it upon themselves to present their case in such a manner without giving in to the trolls and those seeking a reaction. A point is much better recieved when it is delivered in a way that is passionate, yet calm and clear. Ive been a public speaker for several years, and people are more likely to listen and act when a message is delivered quietly and soberly, yet passionate, than a hyped up message filled with bitterness and anger.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”