Guild Wars 2

Darx.9842:

What it does do is assure progression through a set of dungeons. You’ll have to get gear from the first to be able to do the next. Which I don’t mind.

It’s great for the people that love PvE and enjoy progression.

As for your suggestions: You haven’t played the content yet, don’t be so quick to critique.

The “suggestion” is not actually a suggestion for how to improve the system. Its a simple example to show how the system could have required player skill. There’s a lot of ways it could be done, mine is just a very basic illustration.

I don’t have to play the content to understand this new mechanic. Its simple. Get the new gear & infusions, and the damage from agony is mitigated. Explain how that challenges my skill (or lack thereof) as a player?

This is something I would dearly love to see:

“I would have been totally fine with the Ascended armor if it was just as good as exotic gear, but the infuse slot would be something for cosmetic stuff instead.

The infuse slot could just be for really, really, really awesome cosmetic animations that would appear on your character, or whatever.

Put whatever thing you will in your infuse slot and make wings appear on your character, a glowing aura which can be dyed, butterflies, bananas, carrots, bees, winds with leafs or whatever you like.”

So the door is being opened to a gear-grind with gated content. I know the company needs to make some money to keep this game financially viable but is this really the way to go?

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

I think a lot of people are missing this…

Shieldbreaker.4012:

I’d write something longer, but at 116 pages in I think just adding my voice to those against this change is enough. Don’t patch this garbage to the live servers, and fire whoever thought this was a good idea. Try importing your GW1 staff to take their places.

Another gem from Linsey Murdock. You might remember her as the one who posted that she thought people endlessly throwing exotics into the mystic forge for a minuscule chance at a precursor was “fun.”

ShadowBorn.6984:

This is mental, all of it. All the commotion created from this UPDATE is just silly. When they make an update obviously they don’t want to lose people. So in their minds they are trying to make things BETTER for us…otherwise, why bother.

So either you(hypothetical you) play the game however you like and for whatever reasons you like, or you simply just stop.

I’m not a so called “fanboy” ANet makes mistakes, and some stuff is just not what I want it to be, but let’s just focus on whichever aspects of the GAME we like.

Yeah try looking at it like this. You go to a restaurant famous for how a steak is prepared. The steak arrives as promised, but 5 minutes into eating it the cook comes running stating he needs to add something and subsequently burns the steak to a crisp yet still wishing you a pleasant dinner after doing so. That’s what Anet is doing here.

Can anyone confirm that you can’t use any runes on Ascend Armor (helm, chest, legging etc) ??

Ostra.3927:

I will also let my “friends” invites sit and rot because the people that had a SLIGHT interest in GW2 was because it didnt have gear treadmill. Those I would have invited will not buy the game anyway because of this change.

Same here.
I convinced my friends to join me in both warhammer online and in swtor at launch and in both games they all left disappointed within a few weeks.
This time around I waited too see for myself if the game actually where any good and to see if I thought the game would be fun for both me and my friends long term before trying to convince them again.
A few days ago I started talking about gw2 with them and said I think they would enjoy it. The reply I got where that they where sick of the same old gear grind all over again and had no interest in mmo’s anymore because of that.
And then I told them “well that’s great because gw2 doesn’t have gear progression it’s only for cosmetics” and some of them got a bit exited and said they where willing to give it a try.

And now this…

Luckily they haven’t bought the game yet or they would have been as disappointed as I am..

Xeres.3724:

And, BTW, the amount of replies to this topic – even if they were all unique and all were in favor / disapprove of this topic – it’s still a fanstastically small percentage of the player base.

And yet the official blog by Linsey Murdock says that they did this in response to player feedback after the game went live. So that means they have betrayed their core philosophy based on a fantastically small percentage of the player base. The only way to get a good sampling of what the player base really wants (or doesn’t want) is to do a log-in poll. There has been no such poll, so based on what “player feedback” are they supposedly making this fundamental shift in game policy?

So now we have over a hundred pages and over 5k responses of “player feedback” that dwarfs any pro-progression posts on these forums; if GW2 is so responsive to “player feedback”, where are they? IF this was truly a “player feedback”-driven addition, then the current overwhelming player pushback should have them take the Agony/Ascended “end game” mechanism out of the content update, now that they realize that no, we really do not want this.

Comparing apples to apples – player feedback to player feedback, each as a “miniscule” portion of the player base, those against the Ascended mechanic win. If ANET is really responding to player feedback, they’ll take it out of the update.

Unfortunately, this “item progression initiative” has been in the works for much longer than the game has been live, and they’re only trying to spin it as the developers being responsive to community concerns.

Xiccarph.7352:

This is something I would dearly love to see:

“I would have been totally fine with the Ascended armor if it was just as good as exotic gear, but the infuse slot would be something for cosmetic stuff instead.

The infuse slot could just be for really, really, really awesome cosmetic animations that would appear on your character, or whatever.

Put whatever thing you will in your infuse slot and make wings appear on your character, a glowing aura which can be dyed, butterflies, bananas, carrots, bees, winds with leafs or whatever you like.”

So the door is being opened to a gear-grind with gated content. I know the company needs to make some money to keep this game financially viable but is this really the way to go?

Hire this guy.

Ah I guess my previous posts weren’t quite on the topic you wanted.

I completely agree. Adding a condition that can ONLY be countered with a buff from gear requires no skill whatsoever, it doesn’t make the dungeon more challenging..it just creates a completely artificial way to limit who can participate in the content…and the limit is not set by player skill, just time invested in gathering gear.

tkalamba.2541:

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

The idea they will add more tiers after this yes it’s a speculation but the fact is that they will add a new tier and gated content on the next patch, something that is out of line with what they’ve said about their game so far and why people are complaining

Altair.6109:

Can anyone confirm that you can’t use any runes on Ascend Armor (helm, chest, legging etc) ??

Considering that they aren’t being released with this patch, no, no one can confirm.

However, with the precedent set by the fact that the items we do know about wont be able to be upgraded, one would assume that the armour will lack upgrade slots for Runes aswell.

Conner.4702:

Yeah try looking at it like this. You go to a restaurant famous for how a steak is prepared. The steak arrives as promised, but 5 minutes into eating it the cook comes running stating he needs to add something and subsequently burns the steak to a crisp yet still wishing you a pleasant dinner after doing so. That’s what Anet is doing here.

Not true at all mate. Sticking with your analogy. It’s like this.

Steak is perfect and you love it, he remembers he could do something else, brings you ANOTHER steak, you can either get miffed and say its outrageous he even tried and not want anything at all. Love the new steak and enjoy both, or hate the new steak and stick with the old one.

I don’t understand why Anet didn’t give Ascended gear the same stat potential as Exotics. Choosing to make Ascended gear have a higher item level makes zero sense, aside from encouraging everyone to get up to the next tier. They could have avoided this whole fiasco by not making it more powerful.

MajorMelchett.6042:

ChairGraveyard.2967:

MajorMelchett.6042:

Relevent to the topic.
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win..

I really hope all the people against this keep going/posting and don’t just cave in when the content comes out.

Well, for me at least, I know I’m still going to play. My alternatives for an open world fantasy MMO with good action combat (TERA need not apply, not being able to move while attacking sucks) are extremely limited. Until Neverwinter comes out, probably.

That said, I definitely won’t be purchasing any gems if this whole “going back on the entire design of the game” nonsense continues.

Which is kinda why i posted the video, loads are saying “well i’m leaving” or “if you don’t like it leave” but just because we are upset doesn’t mean we should leave. We can still play and we can still “whine” on the forums as much as we can, and we can show our disapproval in other ways (not buying gems etc) all while still playing the game.

Basically as the video states, whining works a lot better than just leaving and we need to keep whining until we get heard.

Agreed. I was actually agreeing and just elaborating on my reasons, rather than disagreeing with your original post (I fully agree with that too).

In any case, I do agree it’s also much more useful if you want the game to be fixed and avoid these types of poor design decisions to actually play and continue to post complaints and such.

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

… Well, Colin?

Yahti.9321:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

I think a lot of people are missing this…

THERE’S NOTHING TO MISS!!!

We don’t know how Infusions will work. The Infusions slots could very well include their own set of upgrades as well. We even know that there are categories : Offensive, Defensive and Omni which have their own tiering as per Murdock’s statement that Omni infusions will be tiered as “fine” quality.

How will those not make up for the lack of Runes? If Exotic = Ascendent without any slotting, then what happens when you slot Infusions? Unless these Infusions literally do nothing against non-Fractal enemies, then the gear is objectively better than Exotics. End of story.

i thought ascended gear would be like in Gw1, where the armor is called that and it has a special stat specific for fighting a certain enemy type. and i got what i was hoping for excluding the power boost on stats.

MikeTsa.7396:

tkalamba.2541:

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

The idea they will add more tiers after this yes it’s a speculation but the fact is that they will add a new tier and gated content on the next patch, something that is out of line with what they’ve said about their game so far and why people are complaining

Having a dungeon that is accessible to everyone is not really gated content. It only becomes gated at which point you progress far enough to start encountering Agony.

You can still participate in the content to your hearts content. However, you just wont be able to keep goin in with the same group’s saved progress at a certain point. Considering its a never ending, randomly generated dungeon that is in no way mandatory or will effect the overall game, It does not qualify as traditional gated content. Odds are you will find your ascended item before you start running into the Agony aspect.

ShadowBorn.6984:

Yeah try looking at it like this. You go to a restaurant famous for how a steak is prepared. The steak arrives as promised, but 5 minutes into eating it the cook comes running stating he needs to add something and subsequently burns the steak to a crisp yet still wishing you a pleasant dinner after doing so. That’s what Anet is doing here.[/quote]

Not true at all mate. Sticking with your analogy. It’s like this.

Steak is perfect and you love it, he remembers he could do something else, brings you ANOTHER steak, you can either get miffed and say its outrageous he even tried and not want anything at all. Love the new steak and enjoy both, or hate the new steak and stick with the old one.
[/quote]

Sorry no yours is the faulty one as the new gear will impact everything already in game. Or did you not read the fact that Legendaries will be upgraded to the level of the best tier gear. So please enlighten me how that doesn’t affect the game as a whole.

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

No one bothers to read posts in full, there was even a picture dear god.
But Ill post it here anyway since people read with their eyes closed.

/Hint, add up the stats and compare. You’ll see.

Omega.1473:

Yahti.9321:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

I think a lot of people are missing this…

THERE’S NOTHING TO MISS!!!

We don’t know how Infusions will work. The Infusions slots could very well include their own set of upgrades as well. We even know that there are categories : Offensive, Defensive and Omni which have their own tiering as per Murdock’s statement that Omni infusions will be tiered as “fine” quality.

How will those not make up for the lack of Runes? If Exotic = Ascendent without any slotting, then what happens when you slot Infusions? Unless these Infusions literally do nothing against non-Fractal enemies, then the gear is objectively better than Exotics. End of story.

They said Infusions only add resistance to Agony…..

critickitten.1498:

….uh, hi.

Big fan of you guys, ANet. Have been ever since I bought GW1 years ago. I’ve been in and out of many MMOs during that time and I wanted something that would stick. I found that in GW1: a game which allows me massive flexibility in my builds, and lets me basically “doll myself up” however I like, with item skins being the big thing.

When GW2 was announced, I was one of the biggest fans of the idea. I was so eager to get my hands on the game that I pre-purchased, happily throwing down 60 bucks for a game I knew I’d love. And I have….but recently, like a mesmer’s illusions, reality seems to be shattering the world I’d built all around me and is forcing me to confront the possibility that this game might become the sort of game I can’t bring myself to keep playing.

I was already discontented enough with legendaries, an item which demands an immensely impractical amount of my free time to obtain. But I’d shrugged it off and was looking forward to more updates until….this ascended business, and the “agony” talks.

Now, as one of your long-time defenders and biggest fans, I must ask this. And keep in mind I don’t mean to offend. But….are you out of your minds?

Let’s review in case you don’t understand what I mean: you just proposed a brand new system of gear that will be essentially REQUIRED in order to run your new dungeon efficiently, due to this “Agony” condition. This is the antithesis of GW1, and while I know “new game, new rules”, you promised us a game that would be new while staying true to the principles of GW1. This is standard MMO design, and it’s clear from this thread that very few people want this. You’ve become exactly what you were building this game to fight AGAINST.

I can’t help but feel a bit betrayed by this. We don’t NEED more “gear progression”. We need bug fixes, and more unique skills/traits, and other things that will increase variety in the game. A gear treadmill is not what we need. And if, as you say, this is “just the start” then I worry that one day I won’t be able to convince myself to defend you.

I can honestly say I won’t participate in the new dungeon if it’s going to boil down to this “Agony” business. And I probably won’t encourage other people to buy this game any more if this policy continues, either.

My sentiments exactly! +1

Takato.4976:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

No one bothers to read posts in full, there was even a picture dear god.
But Ill post it here anyway since people read with their eyes closed.

/Hint, add up the stats and compare. You’ll see.

Perhaps all infusions grant -8% to the stats that are on the item?

Takato.4976:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

No one bothers to read posts in full, there was even a picture dear god.
But Ill post it here anyway since people read with their eyes closed.

/Hint, add up the stats and compare. You’ll see.

+5 to power and precision, an increase which is so small it wont have any real effect to anyones ability to play.

5 power for every item is huge. 7 of these and you permanently have 1 might over someone who doesn’t have it.

Now all this game needs is trinity and raiding. Would be perfect.

/sarcasm off

Forum combat log:

Playerbase uses skill Cry of Frustration.
ANet Dev Team counters with Husk of Indifference.
Playerbase is defeated.

…Where did THAT skill come from? It’s certainly a new one for ANet, that’s for sure…

The whole thing reminds me of radiance gear from lotro.
Their plan too was to make it something that only happened in dungeons.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?279179-quot-End-Game-quot-and-Radiance-Gear-explained

Maybe watching the history of that you can see what played out.
The players did not like it and it didn’t feel like progression because they never got stronger, only more able to deflect things. They also felt obligated to get grades of gear, in fact, if you had enough gloom it would stun your character promising that you wouldn’t be able to continue if you weren’t geared for the place you went.

They say history repeats itself. This was back in 07/08.
If this concept is like that one…

Derk.3189:

5 power for every item is huge. 7 of these and you permanently have 1 might over someone who doesn’t have it.

You can’t equip 7 rings though….

And even if you had +5 on armour, there are runes that add even more to a stat, and Ascended items cannot be upgraded.

alanis.6094:

Perhaps all infusions grant -8% to the stats that are on the item?

Then why not keep the stats the same as exotics ? =|

Fungalfoot.7213:

“The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.”

… Well, Colin?

Colin, having stepped out of the meeting to use the restroom at precisely the wrong moment, comes back to find this…..

MikeTsa.7396:

tkalamba.2541:

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

The idea they will add more tiers after this yes it’s a speculation but the fact is that they will add a new tier and gated content on the next patch, something that is out of line with what they’ve said about their game so far and why people are complaining

No it’s not speculation. It literally says it right on the blog post “This November update is only the beginning of our item progression initiative….”

It’s not “speculation” when it was put in plain English right on the blog post that there will be more of this added in the future, as part of an entire “initiative” dedicated to adding gear treadmill (er… “item progression”).

Takato.4976:

alanis.6094:

Perhaps all infusions grant -8% to the stats that are on the item?

Then why not keep the stats the same as exotics ? =|

Infusions do not give stat bonuses, only resistance to Agony.

tjockis.3798:

ohhh myyy gooood! time to get over this crying, allready? This is starting to get ridiculous. Grow up, to start with! You all whiners sound like cry-babies. Wisiting these forums makes me feel ashamed over the so called community. Be happy they add something at all – for free. Seriously you kittens.

(on a more personally opinion i look forward to this since i find it cool with new things and im not so uptight and a demanding prick)

sry if i might have some strong words, but come on… dont worry, be happy, for kitten sake!

So your argument is “I like this change, therefore anyone who disagrees is just whining and has invalid opinions!”

Conner.4702:

Sorry no yours is the faulty one as the new gear will impact everything already in game. Or did you not read the fact that Legendaries will be upgraded to the level of the best tier gear. So please enlighten me how that doesn’t affect the game as a whole.

No point in arguing whose faulty, I was merely saying how I saw the update to be. I’ve lost ambition for even attempting to get a Legendary, something about impossibilities does not strike me fancy. The rest of the game is gonna remain the same as far as we know. Current things will not get magically harder because there are more powerful items to attain. And the game is honestly fairly easy currently. It’ll just make things more fair with the new stuff they are introducing. We currently will not be kittened, or nerfed at all I didn’t think.

I’m disappointed. I only get to play less than 10 hours a week and now there is gear progression. I’m sol in my guild, because I’ll be gim-ped for newer content for a long time. Also people will want to do the newest most “challenging” content, and all my guildies gear will make current dungeons easier.

I wish ANet would spend their time catering to their aging fanbase, by simply making new challenges and new content as opposed to creating a carrot on a stick gear progression… I feel like I have better things to do with my time than run another gear treadmill, id play diablo 3 if I wanted that.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

MikeTsa.7396:

tkalamba.2541:

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

The idea they will add more tiers after this yes it’s a speculation but the fact is that they will add a new tier and gated content on the next patch, something that is out of line with what they’ve said about their game so far and why people are complaining

No it’s not speculation. It literally says it right on the blog post “This November update is only the beginning of our item progression initiative….”

It’s not “speculation” when it was put in plain English right on the blog post that there will be more of this added in the future, as part of an entire “initiative” dedicated to adding gear treadmill (er… “item progression”).

What they are saying is they will add additional items, like say Pendants, or helms…. Not entire new tiers.

tkalamba.2541:

Derk.3189:

5 power for every item is huge. 7 of these and you permanently have 1 might over someone who doesn’t have it.

You can’t equip 7 rings though….

And even if you had +5 on armour, there are runes that add even more to a stat, and Ascended items cannot be upgraded.

The current example we have shows that the Ascended item is 8% better than an exotic item with an upgrade included.

There is no valid reason to believe that Ascended armor won’t also be stronger than Exotic armor.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Xeres.3724:

And, BTW, the amount of replies to this topic – even if they were all unique and all were in favor / disapprove of this topic – it’s still a fanstastically small percentage of the player base.

And yet the official blog by Linsey Murdock says that they did this in response to player feedback after the game went live. So that means they have betrayed their core philosophy based on a fantastically small percentage of the player base. The only way to get a good sampling of what the player base really wants (or doesn’t want) is to do a log-in poll. There has been no such poll, so based on what “player feedback” are they supposedly making this fundamental shift in game policy?

So now we have over a hundred pages and over 5k responses of “player feedback” that dwarfs any pro-progression posts on these forums; if GW2 is so responsive to “player feedback”, where are they? IF this was truly a “player feedback”-driven addition, then the current overwhelming player pushback should have them take the Agony/Ascended “end game” mechanism out of the content update, now that they realize that no, we really do not want this.

Comparing apples to apples – player feedback to player feedback, each as a “miniscule” portion of the player base, those against the Ascended mechanic win. If ANET is really responding to player feedback, they’ll take it out of the update.

Unfortunately, this “item progression initiative” has been in the works for much longer than the game has been live, and they’re only trying to spin it as the developers being responsive to community concerns.

/Signed

tkalamba.2541:

They said Infusions only add resistance to Agony…..

They never said that. There are defensive, offensive and omni infusions, so if defensive infusion protect you from Agony, what do offensive and omin infusions do?

I guess they will increase your damage against special mobs or offer a mix of protection and damage. Still not a big deal if each infusion is strictly bound to only one dungeon and can be obtained and therefore switched easily. Otherwise it’s a very bad design decision.

Zaber.5609:

I like the new feature, adds a sense of progression for us PvErs. And why are people complaining about grind in a MMORPG? Doesn’t make sense at all.

I like difficult content. It adds the best sense of progression for us PvE-ers. I want content that is challenging and fun to play for its own sake, with mementos to mark me as SKILLED enough to overcome those challenges.

Making one number bigger than the other is not skill. It might look like it if you squint carefully and tilt your head, or maybe if you’ve never known anything else. And if that’s the case, I feel sorry for you.

Nar.8327:

Xiccarph.7352:

This is something I would dearly love to see:

“I would have been totally fine with the Ascended armor if it was just as good as exotic gear, but the infuse slot would be something for cosmetic stuff instead.

The infuse slot could just be for really, really, really awesome cosmetic animations that would appear on your character, or whatever.

Put whatever thing you will in your infuse slot and make wings appear on your character, a glowing aura which can be dyed, butterflies, bananas, carrots, bees, winds with leafs or whatever you like.”

So the door is being opened to a gear-grind with gated content. I know the company needs to make some money to keep this game financially viable but is this really the way to go?

Hire this guy.

If this was about money, this update would be about taking stuff like your suggestions above and countless similar such suggestions and making such content available to purchase from the cash shop. This update was not in reaction to lack of revenue or “customer feedback”; it been in the hopper for a long time – had to be. Everything else is spin and con.

tkalamba.2541:

Derk.3189:

5 power for every item is huge. 7 of these and you permanently have 1 might over someone who doesn’t have it.

You can’t equip 7 rings though….

And even if you had +5 on armour, there are runes that add even more to a stat, and Ascended items cannot be upgraded.

Currently, as shown in the ring, the base for a ascended gear is > base exotic + upgrade

If anything, it seems ascended gear might have less flexibility than exotics, but definitely not weaker in stats.

When I first read about the new Ascended gear I was indifferent, until they mentioned that you needed the Infusions from it in order to do the new dungeons. At that point, I was mad. Then I thought about it some more and no longer am.

1. Excluding Legendary, there are already 5 different Tiers of gear in the game.

2. At level 80, all 5 Tiers are available to be bought from other players on the Auction House.

3. Upon reaching 80, you can buy up what is essentially the best gear to do any and all content with, “Exotics”.
-Exotics are comparable to other MMOs’ " Top Tier/End Game Bind on Pickup" gear which you can only obtain either after a set amount of RL days has passed (Token/Badge system) or through a random drop from a raid boss
-The difference however, is that in GW2 you can just buy it on the Auction House

4. The new 6th Tier, Ascended, is not merely “just another Tier”. It seems to be an absolute requirement to do the new dungeons because of the Infusions.

5. You can just buy the new Ascended gear, along with Infusions off the Auction House
^Speculation, but considering the fact that the final form of a Legendary Weapon can be sold on there too, do you really think Ascended will be any different?

So I guess the question is…..at level 80, does the majority of players really only buy Basic Tier (Whites) on the Auction House to wear for most of the content they do?

Yougottawanna.7420:

If nothing else I would like more communication from Anet. I don’t like what I see right now:

-angry people on the forums
-negative press
-except for the official response, deafening silence from the developer
-the occasional tweet from an official source, with the characteristic whiff of condescension towards critics
-the occasional carefully worded and discordantly cheerful press release

I’ve seen this beast many times before. This is the behavior of a company that has insulated itself in a criticism-free bubble. Now it’s early still, this is not a terminal condition, they can still be cured. But the symptoms are already there.

This reminds me of what happened with Diablo 3, and it took a long time, but eventually Blizzard caved. They admitted they messed up, apologized to the fans, and started trying to make things better. ANet was never like this in the past, so it’s sad they they’ve become like (D3 release date) Blizzard. It’s bad that they utterly don’t care and won’t respond to the fans and community that supported them for so long.

Twoflower.7031:

tjockis.3798:

ohhh myyy gooood! time to get over this crying, allready? This is starting to get ridiculous. Grow up, to start with! You all whiners sound like cry-babies. Wisiting these forums makes me feel ashamed over the so called community. Be happy they add something at all – for free. Seriously you kittens.

(on a more personally opinion i look forward to this since i find it cool with new things and im not so uptight and a demanding prick)

sry if i might have some strong words, but come on… dont worry, be happy, for kitten sake!

So your argument is “I like this change, therefore anyone who disagrees is just whining and has invalid opinions!”

I think most of those people are actually just trolls. Literally. Like not oh he’s stupid, he must be a troll, but literally someone just trying to piss people off. It is incredibly easy to troll this topic if people wanted to.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

MikeTsa.7396:

tkalamba.2541:

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

The idea they will add more tiers after this yes it’s a speculation but the fact is that they will add a new tier and gated content on the next patch, something that is out of line with what they’ve said about their game so far and why people are complaining

No it’s not speculation. It literally says it right on the blog post “This November update is only the beginning of our item progression initiative….”

It’s not “speculation” when it was put in plain English right on the blog post that there will be more of this added in the future, as part of an entire “initiative” dedicated to adding gear treadmill (er… “item progression”).

I considered all the ascendant gear to come as 1 tier, that’s why I formed my answer that way. If they do release all the ascendant gear and then deside to introduce another gear that would be the new tier I was saying was a speculation, Ascendant gear is not a speculation

Lothair.8942:

Also the fact that this is LAUNCHING IN 2 kitten DAYS – you can understand why people are upset. The community that doesn’t want this included in the next patch needs to speak up now or never.

Exactly. Once they let this in the door, the game is changed forever, and in a direction which makes them much more like other more traditional MMOs. We want this to stop now, not later.

Count me in the group that is unhappy with the new Ascended level of gear grind.

The Ascended gear is ENTIRELY contrary to ANet’s stated game design manifesto. It is better than current Exotics, and it will be required in any competitive group situation. That, in an of itself, violates the major reason I was a Guild Wars fan and vocal promoter.

In addition…

The new Ascended gear will gateway entry to the new dungeon, with groups spamming for “need 1 more, must have XX infusion”.

ANet, you’re pandering to the WoW crowd, and that’s not why I left WoW to come play GW2.

I’m not one to complain a lot; I’ve defended ANet in the Ranger forums, and I felt they did a great job with Halloween. We have four copies in this house; NONE of us is thrilled with your new gear grind.

A new WoW-like gear grind and gateway? I am very disappointed, and likely to stop playing if this is the future of the game.