Guild Wars 2

It’s unevitable. With new content will eventually come a level cap increase, perhaps a new level of traits and more powerful weapons and armor.
Guild Wars 2 began differently, but will become similar to the vast majority of MMOs.

I’m even fine with that, though as long as gear elitism and farm/grindfests are kept off the game.

cherrie.8907:

Zephaust Zenith.8376:

I posted earlier on about this.
Lvl cap will probably increase with expansions and i’d assume with it, new higher lvl gear will be released aswell unless they’ll have some different lvl/gear progression.

Unless I’m mistaking you with someone else, you actually attributed that claim to ANet themselves.
I’d like a source for that if you wouldn’t mind. Thank you.

The link was posted elsewhere a few times within the mess of this thread but here’s a previous post of mine:

Zephaust Zenith.8376:

Kelvran.9047:

…

Think of how many mystic stones would be needed for a full set for everyone’s main and alts. Then when the first expansion hits the stores in a year or so, we can all do it again for the new higher level ascended armor and infusions to match the new level cap. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHfq2lJY5A&t=58m35s Ascended armor will still be best in slot, and legendaries will still be equivalent to best in slot. But you’ll still need to upgrade your infusions and also your new ascendeds if you haven’t done the legendary grind. Anet has been telling us the truth all along, there won’t be a GEAR grind. It’ll be a gold/resource grind.

…

Interesting take.

Also, i’d like to point this incase some people are not aware,
from the link about GameOverCast interview at EuroGamer 2011
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLHfq2lJY5A&t=58m35s ) one can hear :

Q: “What about the level cap… ?”
A: “The level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game and we will absolutely increase it further into the game, probably through expansions…”

One would assume, after lvl cap is increased later on through an expansion, let’s say to lvl 100 for example, new lvl 100 (“Ascended”) gear to be released aswell making lower lvl gear redundant ?
Then, there will be a gear threadmill regardless… unless there is an unconventional Lvl / gear progression implemented.

Just food for thought.

Namu.5712:

Caran.3217:

stof.9341:

Chrissle.8690:

There´s one flaw in your philosphy about only farming for looks though. Imagine a new dungeon coming out. Only new looks on the dungeon sets, not better stats. 50% of the player base likes the looks, 50% hate them. What incentive do the 50% that hate the looks of the new armor have to do the content?

Around the same motivation that I have doing dungeons where I don’t want the gear at the end : they are fun to do.

Some people have been brainwashed into believing that gear progressing equals fun and is a desirable goal in itself to keep them motivated playing.

The fun is the challenging content or not, and to show off that you have beaten it a new skin is all that’s need if you want to boast. Increasing stats has nothing to do with it whatsoever. It’s a lie, an illusion – you have not gotten better at the game just with stats because new content can be scaled to said new stats.

Its not really brainwashing.

Why do you buy a faster fancier car in real life? For the appeal, for the power, and for the looks.

Its really human nature, and its especially prevalent in the USA where your social status/worth is based on how many shiny’s you own and how much they cost.

You spend years grinding for that fast sports car, then you get it and of course the first thing you do is parade around town showing off its sleek lines…. then after that you take it out on the open road and gun it and watch the speed rise and say to yourself ya this things got so much power and speed compared to my old car!

Now flip that into the mmo world… you spend hours/days/weeks/months grinding for that new gear that has boosted stats. It looks better, its stonger. You get it and you put it on dye do whatever your gonna do with it and go show off… then you go kill some bad guys with your fancy gear and say oh ya I hit way harder now!

You see this mentality directly translates from how you think in real life. Well maybe not how you think personnally but how a great number of people in general think.

Real life comparisons are very likely to utterly fail, like yours did. Not to mention there’s a speed limit everywhere except on the Autobahn HAHAHA.

It doesn’t matter if you go faster now, i the ‘god developer’ make the boss mob go faster now as well. Now you have to keep chasing him AGAIN right? You gained NO power whatsoever, but your vision is still focused on the carrot…

SuddenlyOnFire.3162:

I am truly perplexed at the reaction of some people.
Are you guys really complaining about getting new stuff every month for free? Do you really don’t get it that they are throwing with content at us for free? Are you really saying I’m gonna stop playing their game because they added too much stuff and I want to prove how manly I am on the forums ?

Even if they do add a gear treadmill (which they don’t), even if they do add new item tiers on a regular base (which they will NOT do, stop reading between the bloody lines … “oh noes, why did they say 3 months? why not 4? is 3 a secret code for ‘mwuahahahaha’?”), they are still the best MMO company in my eyes. Because they kept the most important promise: Unparalleled content release rate which we don’t even have to pay for.

Am I also the only one who vaguely remembers the gazillion other trolls on the forum posting that there is nothing to do at lvl 80? I am quite positive that some them are also complaining here.

Please, show me anyone in this thread, or on this forum, or on any other forum for that matter complaining about the new zone or the new dungeon in general.
No one is complaining about new content, people here are complaining about a change in mechanics they believe is crucial.

Conner.4702:

Namu.5712:

Here’s what I don’t understand.

I understand people feel lied to and so on.

But, didn’t they say they would be increasing level cap? And that they would be releasing new gear? Naturally that would make old gear obsolete, wouldn’t it? Or was it expected that the old 80 gear would maintain the same stats as say 85 gear.

Would that not get a little boring with so little change? If you look at the game as it is now could you see yourself one year from now doing the same exact thing but in a different scenery? Same hp, same everything. Your just smacking a different monster around.

I didn’t play gw1 but didn’t they have some kind of infusion system as well? Or did I read wrong.

Please point out where they said they would raise the levelcap. I’ve never seen them mention that.

As you said you never played GW1 so you lack experience with the system. Most of us did not get bored being level 20 all the time and wearing the same armor.

Ah okay, well I didn’t know for sure thats why I asked.

And yes never played GW1 but I hear it was much more fun… more involved skill system and such you could truly build some interesting skill setups, which that by itself would be very fun. I find in GW2 for a majority of professions you either go tanky build or glass cannon… there really is no inbetween because it gives up too much of one or the other.

Urxx.6840:

Jezath.7395:

I agree with you ganzo and i feel the same way. I do. However I really truly beleive that this is not happening here. They are upgrading the stats of gear already ingame. Im sorry if im starting to sound like a broken record here but really, people seem to be missing this major point.

They are upgrading the stats of legendaries, not exotics. Legendaries are owned by a tiny percentage of the player base, and so far are only limited to weapons anyway.

All armors and most weapons today are at most exotics (because stat-wise there isn’t anything better in the game) and will become more and more obsolete.

Which is the opposite of what was promised in the manifesto and in other statements by ANet representatives.

Correct me please if i am wrong but they dident say if it would be legendarys or not. They just said they will be upgrading items already ingame to bring them inline with the new gear and make it so that it was not a wasted effort to get those items..

However… If this is not the case, I agree that they have gone back on there word if there words were that they would never bring out a new tier of gear with better stats. I havent seen those words exactly though, as with most press releases they are deliberatly vague in some areas. You must understand ( i dont mean to sound condescending here) that games especially MMO evolve over time. If they stay stagnant then they will eventually rot and wither away.

I do not envy anets position here, they are trying to please everyone and that in itself is an almost impossible task. I really feel sorry for them. Remember if you try to please everyone you will end up pleasing no-one. All you can do is please some and upset others.

Im glad i dont work in there HR department right now. Imagine all the hard work that they have put into this game so far only to have people critisize and draw conjecture before the patch has even been released. This must be terribly depressing and morale killing.

===========

People calling for refunds are in my opinion vbeing aliuttle childish, it is coming across as i they cant have it there way they will try to bring the game crashing down around everyone else out of spite. Im not saying this is true but it is how it comes across to me.

I have an open mind as much as the next guy. In the past, I have taken a stance and been proved wrong so i have retracted my statements and agreed that i was wrong.

However, I am firm in the beleif that I am not wrong on this. Im trying not to draw conclusions before the patch has been released and i get a chance t0o play through it and see for real if this is going to be a gear treadmill/vertical progression/gear grind, or not.

I know, i have drawn conclusions on the positive side but many also have drawn conclusions on the negative side. Everyone sees things according to there own values and experience and i accept this.

I say this to you, give it a chance… Wait to see what is actually going to happen, This discussion is good and you can rest assured that anet is reading every post on here and making notes. It wouldent make any sense for them to alienate a large portion of there playerbase. However! This malkes iot also true that you should have a little faith. Try not to read between the lines and only take what they have said as fact.

This is what am doing and I feel that they have not betrayed anyone or anything they have said yet.

Hi, this will count as the first and perhaps last time I respond on this forum— I absolutely love watching these discourses and exchanges about a game that I’ve found very enjoyable, but I generally don’t involve myself too much.

I feel the need to add a drop to the bucket however and make my voice heard. I am perhaps the closest thing to a casual player there can be. I haven’t seen Orr yet, haven’t done a single round of WvW and I’ve run through the Ascalonian Catacombs all of one time. I never followed this game or read up on it. I just up and picked it up one day simply because I wanted to enjoy it with a friend. Thus far, Guild Wars 2 has absolutely floored me. I don’t feel at any point that I’m called upon to do any work, only that I sign on and have a good time no matter what I do. It’s been an incredible ride.

That being said, this shift in direction is extremely worrisome. I will not see Ascended Gear for a very long time. I have no clue about stat impacts, the nuances of competitive play are unknown to me and at this point, the new content offered to me with The Lost Shores is nothing but great news.

However.

I believe the addition of gear progression and gated content via the Agony mechanic can and will influence me for months to come. I’ve had nothing but a great experience with the local community and I recognize that this threatens to change that. But how? My opinion is this: the way this content is being introduced is in such a way that the effects of it will be negligible at best to begin with. A back piece and a ring, I speculate, will have little to no immediate impact on the game. But it sets a very dangerous precedent and opens the door for more and more additions like this. You take one step in the wrong direction and you find yourself on the wrong path towards making a game that was once simply about having a good time and sharing that time with close friends and like-minded strangers to an exclusive, tiered game in which the spirit of cooperation is replaced with a cold numbers game in which people will have nothing to do with each other if they don’t meet a certain numerical standard. This isn’t a danger that will have an immediate, obvious impact. It’s a slow-killing poison that over time can and will damage the credibility and the pure joy of playing this game.

I urge the kind folks at ArenaNet to rethink their current course of action, and I urge those who are discontent with this addition to raise their voices not only now, but for weeks and months to come. I know I would very much prefer to be silent and just enjoy this fantastic game and for the most part I do, but I recognize that this is a potential game-changer and I cannot be silent about this. Thank you, and I hope you all have a pleasant day.

Hermes.7014:

It’s unevitable. With new content will eventually come a level cap increase, perhaps a new level of traits and more powerful weapons and armor.
Guild Wars 2 began differently, but will become similar to the vast majority of MMOs.

I’m even fine with that, though as long as gear elitism and farm/grindfests are kept off the game.

Yet they had managed to keep GW1 alive 7 years, releasing 3 campaigns and 1 expansions, without ever raising level cap. Nor gear power. 7 years after launch, there still wasn’t a single amor set that was more powerful than any max level armor present at launch.

All their behavior up until now had pointed to them doing the same on GW2. They have proven it’s entirely possible, so it wasn’t so implicit as you make it to be that they would take that route.

Quite the contrary.

Caran.3217:

Namu.5712:

Caran.3217:

stof.9341:

Chrissle.8690:

There´s one flaw in your philosphy about only farming for looks though. Imagine a new dungeon coming out. Only new looks on the dungeon sets, not better stats. 50% of the player base likes the looks, 50% hate them. What incentive do the 50% that hate the looks of the new armor have to do the content?

Around the same motivation that I have doing dungeons where I don’t want the gear at the end : they are fun to do.

Some people have been brainwashed into believing that gear progressing equals fun and is a desirable goal in itself to keep them motivated playing.

The fun is the challenging content or not, and to show off that you have beaten it a new skin is all that’s need if you want to boast. Increasing stats has nothing to do with it whatsoever. It’s a lie, an illusion – you have not gotten better at the game just with stats because new content can be scaled to said new stats.

Its not really brainwashing.

Why do you buy a faster fancier car in real life? For the appeal, for the power, and for the looks.

Its really human nature, and its especially prevalent in the USA where your social status/worth is based on how many shiny’s you own and how much they cost.

You spend years grinding for that fast sports car, then you get it and of course the first thing you do is parade around town showing off its sleek lines…. then after that you take it out on the open road and gun it and watch the speed rise and say to yourself ya this things got so much power and speed compared to my old car!

Now flip that into the mmo world… you spend hours/days/weeks/months grinding for that new gear that has boosted stats. It looks better, its stonger. You get it and you put it on dye do whatever your gonna do with it and go show off… then you go kill some bad guys with your fancy gear and say oh ya I hit way harder now!

You see this mentality directly translates from how you think in real life. Well maybe not how you think personnally but how a great number of people in general think.

Real life comparisons are very likely to utterly fail, like yours did. Not to mention there’s a speed limit everywhere except on the Autobahn HAHAHA.

It doesn’t matter if you go faster now, i the ‘god developer’ make the boss mob go faster now as well. Now you have to keep chasing him AGAIN right? You gained NO power whatsoever, but your vision is still focused on the carrot…

Hey I was just comparing the general mentality of people, and that subconcious mentality does carry over believe it or not. Speed limits exist. But how many people do you know that explicitly follow them.

Raising overall power level does one of two things:

1: Everything is now scaled up to match your new power level, or in GW2’s case, you are scaled down. In which case, what was the point?

2: Nothing is scaled up, you can faceroll lvl 80 content. You are now too powerful to be challenged by all previous content.

Neither option is particularlly “fun”.

Zephaust Zenith.8376:

The link was posted elsewhere a few times within the mess of this thread but here’s a previous post of mine:

Thanks. Indeed, I’ve missed both that statement when it was released and you posting it.

Personally, this is the first time I hear about that and I can’t say I’m happy with it, but that’s not relevant anyway.

Ballistic.4531:

They are increasing stats on Legendary items. No more optional-anything. Legendary weaps are a must, and soon Legendary armor as well.

thought that wasn’t due for several months (next year basically) after they drip feed us the rest of the ascended armour etc when they introduce ascended wepons

but nothing else is getting upgrades which i beleive is what was being implied

Jezath.7395:

Correct me please if i am wrong but they dident say if it would be legendarys or not. They just said they will be upgrading items already ingame to bring them inline with the new gear and make it so that it was not a wasted effort to get those items..
thus mjolnir etc are worthless unless you want a pretty expensive skin for that new ascended wepon youll be rocking

ah its nice to infer things correctly

" Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items"

^ from linsey’s post

Jezath.7395:

Correct me please if i am wrong but they dident say if it would be legendarys or not. They just said they will be upgrading items already ingame to bring them inline with the new gear and make it so that it was not a wasted effort to get those items.

I wish you were right but I’m afraid it’s only legendaries:

Lindsay Murdock:

Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game.

Namu.5712:

Tinfoil hat on-
Wonder if NCSoft has any say in content of this game as they are technically the company that owns them.

Much like EA has ruined games run by studios like Anet.

Just curious.

I thought of EA/Dice when I read about this.

Why couldn’t they have added new super rare weapons to the Champions around the world like the ‘Design a Weapon’ in GW that gave us the frog scepter etc. they had same stats as other weapons but still people wanted them badly.

I’ll see how this turns out but I probably will quit if I have to constantly upgrade my gear every few months. It’s already enough of an annoyance to now realise the exotics on my toons are now outdated.

I mostly agree with Namu, I whole-heartedly agree that the endgame is too easily attainable and was already making people stop playing. I can’t honestly say what other type of things to work against could keep people playing.

ALl I know is that , whether this was promised, or whatever you think you signed up for. I’m still stuck that what most people find the most important in the game is the gear, and how the gear system works.

I don’t think I have ever played Guild Wars 2 where I thought, Sweet! I have all the gear i ever need. Or Yes! I must get that piece of super rare loot. If I look at the game from moment to moment, I think, wow that is really cool.

Sadly enough I already have played most of the game, seen loads of the events. (Even though I keep backtracking through every area, I only feel disappointed that there isn’t anything new.

I’m not much of a farmer, though still i have started to build up some stuff to eventually get a legendary. But it’s still far away. I applaud for getting some kind of loot in between legendary and exotic. (ANd really I never found all the “lodestone gear” to be something to strife for, because it was merely lodestone farming.

I look forward to the legendary changes. I look forward to the new area. I look forward even more towards guild progression/events or some stuff like that that will build community and things to do. I look forward to ten times of different events , because right now it feels like a world stuck in a timeloop, sadly enough.

Gear? Never was an issue. even if there is more powerful gear, I won’t simply get it for the power. I will continue to wander around Tyria because I like Tyria. Not some piece of equipment in my inventory.

I do however see problems for WvW. And if I think about gear progression I find the idea of it pretty ridiculous, though in fact I find the notion that people will actually feel compelled of doing this, whether they like it or not, even more silly.

Lol I have been laughed at many times in Guild Wars 2 itself when I said I didn’t care so much for the loot. Yet, now when there’s new loot , people are upset. It makes me feel really disconnected with any of you, because it feels very hypocritical to me.

Everyone wants the new loot to get, but you don’t want to feel it’s necessary to get.
The people that feel betrayed, I’m sorry for you guys.
“They said no rarity should be more powerful than the other.”

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.Where were you all at the start of the game, when this clearly wasn’t an issue?
But now, when they decided.. Exotic gear is too easy to get, we need a new tier to properly set the barrier for the people to get the maximum stats. Everyone is up in arms about it.

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.Where were you all at the start of the game, when this clearly wasn’t an issue?
But now, when they decided.. Exotic gear is too easy to get, we need a new tier to properly set the barrier for the people to get the maximum stats. Everyone is up in arms about it.If they released this tier, and this rarity from the start, there wouldn’t be an issue.
But because they underestimated the players, and exotic gear was attained way easier and faster than expected, they’re trying to fix that.

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.Where were you all at the start of the game, when this clearly wasn’t an issue?
But now, when they decided.. Exotic gear is too easy to get, we need a new tier to properly set the barrier for the people to get the maximum stats. Everyone is up in arms about it.If they released this tier, and this rarity from the start, there wouldn’t be an issue.
But because they underestimated the players, and exotic gear was attained way easier and faster than expected, they’re trying to fix that.That’s how it looks to me. They wanted the maximum gear to be this hard to attain from the start, except it wasn’t. (see legendary weapon stats being higher than exotic, at first. )

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.Where were you all at the start of the game, when this clearly wasn’t an issue?
But now, when they decided.. Exotic gear is too easy to get, we need a new tier to properly set the barrier for the people to get the maximum stats. Everyone is up in arms about it.If they released this tier, and this rarity from the start, there wouldn’t be an issue.
But because they underestimated the players, and exotic gear was attained way easier and faster than expected, they’re trying to fix that.That’s how it looks to me. They wanted the maximum gear to be this hard to attain from the start, except it wasn’t. (see legendary weapon stats being higher than exotic, at first. )

Alaric.3654:

Hi, this will count as the first and perhaps last time I respond on this forum— I absolutely love watching these discourses and exchanges about a game that I’ve found very enjoyable, but I generally don’t involve myself too much.

I feel the need to add a drop to the bucket however and make my voice heard. I am perhaps the closest thing to a casual player there can be. I haven’t seen Orr yet, haven’t done a single round of WvW and I’ve run through the Ascalonian Catacombs all of one time. I never followed this game or read up on it. I just up and picked it up one day simply because I wanted to enjoy it with a friend. Thus far, Guild Wars 2 has absolutely floored me. I don’t feel at any point that I’m called upon to do any work, only that I sign on and have a good time no matter what I do. It’s been an incredible ride.

That being said, this shift in direction is extremely worrisome. I will not see Ascended Gear for a very long time. I have no clue about stat impacts, the nuances of competitive play are unknown to me and at this point, the new content offered to me with The Lost Shores is nothing but great news.

However.

I believe the addition of gear progression and gated content via the Agony mechanic can and will influence me for months to come. I’ve had nothing but a great experience with the local community and I recognize that this threatens to change that. But how? My opinion is this: the way this content is being introduced is in such a way that the effects of it will be negligible at best to begin with. A back piece and a ring, I speculate, will have little to no immediate impact on the game. But it sets a very dangerous precedent and opens the door for more and more additions like this. You take one step in the wrong direction and you find yourself on the wrong path towards making a game that was once simply about having a good time and sharing that time with close friends and like-minded strangers to an exclusive, tiered game in which the spirit of cooperation is replaced with a cold numbers game in which people will have nothing to do with each other if they don’t meet a certain numerical standard. This isn’t a danger that will have an immediate, obvious impact. It’s a slow-killing poison that over time can and will damage the credibility and the pure joy of playing this game.

I urge the kind folks at ArenaNet to rethink their current course of action, and I urge those who are discontent with this addition to raise their voices not only now, but for weeks and months to come. I know I would very much prefer to be silent and just enjoy this fantastic game and for the most part I do, but I recognize that this is a potential game-changer and I cannot be silent about this. Thank you, and I hope you all have a pleasant day.

How very well written.

Namu.5712:

Safer Saviour.9685:

Namu.5712:

Ganzo.5079:

Jezath.7395:

Sorry cherrie but i feel this is horizontal progression. If they said they wernt going to increase the stats of gear already in the game then yes i would agree this is vertical progression as you put it. But they are increasing stats of gear in the game already.. They havent said if this would be solely legendarys or not. so in fact they are in my mind adding in a layer of content to help casual players out. They are bringing in some gear that people can aquire along the road to aquiring there legendarys.

Remember the manifesto, most of ppl are here because of that.
No one say that a grindy game is a bad game… i played WOW for about 2 years and i enjoy it every moment… but a was looking for something different, with the constant need to upgrade my gear time to time to be competitive. GW since the start was a real spark of light… i tanke a month to gather my first exotic set, and for me the real game is started when the last exotic piece was setted on my charecter.
Gather equipment is not playing… its a preparation for the real play…and i simply dont want to be always in preparation!

What if your getting the equipment as you play the new content?

Say theres a dungeon, theres 5 rooms and a boss room. You have to go through the 5 rooms and defeat the 5 miniboss’s. Now each mini boss drops your new armor garanteed. So by the time you get to the inner depths of the dungeon you already have your new items and are ready for battle. You didn’t have to gear up before entering to even attempt it but rather got your gear progressively from the dungeon on your way to the end.

Would you then consider your time devalued and that you had to prepare for the real play when the real play is what awarded you your gear?

What if you have alts? Worse, what if someone joins the game in six months to find that the only people running Fractals are people who are already Infused, who refuse to accept Uninfused into the group? What happens when the nect level of Ascended and Infused items come, and players who move on to this content refuse to accept Extotically equipped, Uninfused players into their parties for the new content? What if the game wouldn’t let those players survive anyway?

It gates content, adds a gear grind and makes something that might have been fun somewhat less so.

Ah okay I get what your saying about that, and yes ive run into that alot in other games…. what gear you have…. nope sorry you have to have this gear to run in our group, regardless of if you can run it flawlessly…

I however run into this anyways as a ranger in this game. Sorry we dont want a ranger in our group your damage sucks and your pet is useless…… >.> totally sucks.

But ya content gating is bad, players make it worse.

That’s a balance issue that may be addressed in the upcoming patch. Ascended is something that’s /intended/, and may cause some irksome problems in the future.

Hermes.7014:

It’s unevitable. With new content will eventually come a level cap increase, perhaps a new level of traits and more powerful weapons and armor.
Guild Wars 2 began differently, but will become similar to the vast majority of MMOs.

I’m even fine with that, though as long as gear elitism and farm/grindfests are kept off the game.

You’re kidding yourself aren’t you or not being serious? GW1 has proven that nothing you state is ‘inevitable’.

You also seriously think that if GW2 becomes like all the other MMORPGs (RPG dude!), it won’t be plagued by the thinks you don’t like? That is very naive.

FOr the ones that have no clear ONE simple thing:

Actual game model: Gather material – > make exotic items – > play what you want to play.

Supposed game model: Gather Material – >grind new tiers – > Hit the legendary wall – > play what you want to play

the only real thig of the Anet new model, is that the legendary items ARE THE BEST IN SLOT.
But between exotics and legendary, they can made infinite tiers of equiment!(because legenary simply will be updated to match the last tier) So the game is forcing people to make legendary items! But only grinders can hit that wall… all the normal players that only enjoy challenge are doomed to grind forever.

clear now?

FrizzFreston.5290:

If they released this tier, and this rarity from the start, there wouldn’t be an issue.
But because they underestimated the players, and exotic gear was attained way easier and faster than expected, they’re trying to fix that.

That’s how it looks to me. They wanted the maximum gear to be this hard to attain from the start, except it wasn’t. (see legendary weapon stats being higher than exotic, at first. )

Exactly.

Or, in other words, they are saying

“Hey, we did a design mistake, underestimating how much time it would take the average player to get exotics. So even though we dind’t say anything at the beginning about a new tier and thus led everyone to invest in exotics because nobody could see ascended gear coming, why don’t we just make them pay for our misjusdgement and waste their efforts, instead of thinking of a better and less disruptive way of solving the problem?”

Ganzo.5079:

FOr the ones that have no clear ONE simple thing:

Actual game model: Gather material – > make exotic items – > play what you want to play.

Supposed game model: Gather Material – >grind new tiers – > Hit the legendary wall – > play what you want to play

the only real thig of the Anet new model, is that the legendary items ARE THE BEST IN SLOT.
But between exotics and legendary, they can made infinite tiers of equiment!(because legenary simply will be updated to match the last tier) So the game is forcing people to make legendary items!

clear now?

It does make sense…. legendary or bust folks haha. Guess you can grind the top set and never have to grind again.

But then again the weapon is very time consuming to get ….. how much time to get the other pieces o.o, which aren’t even in game yet.

I will summerize

Analysis of the situation is high risk low reward on this move (and after only 3 months into it’s infancy)

I assume Ascended weapons will have that transfusion only slot or what ever….thus statistically Legendaries will be the best of the best since it has the ability to put any sigil you want in it thus making it better than Ascended outside of one instance. And it also has more stats/dmg to so it’s way better than exotics. Plus it looks hyper cool as an extra added bonus.

So essentially if you only have an exotic weapon(s)….mr legendary guy will win and get invited into the ‘cool kids club’ above the exotic noobs due to having superior gear.

Is that ok? Maybe in that other game or the countless pay to win MMOs where this is a feature, but here? I play GW2 to avoid all that arms race mess. Not cool, man. Not cool.

Gw2 has been sitting on my shelf for awhile now and i was exited to see the news of this content patch…yes finally a new area that isnt infested with anoying risen.
Then i saw this and gw2 is going to the bin and not the shelf.

Shadow Blade.1324:

Ballistic.4531:

They are increasing stats on Legendary items. No more optional-anything. Legendary weaps are a must, and soon Legendary armor as well.

thought that wasn’t due for several months (next year basically) after they drip feed us the rest of the ascended armour etc when they introduce ascended

Well tomorrow or in 3 months, there isn’t much difference from my point of view. It’s still coming and is still making old gears obsolete. No more “I choose what part I play” phylosophy. It’s becoming “Anet chooses my playstyle for me”.

fixit.7189:

I assume Ascended weapons will have that transfusion only slot or what ever….thus statistally Legendaries will be the best of the best since it has the ability to put any sigil you want in it thus making it better than Ascended. And it also has more stats/dmg to so it’s way better than exotics. Plus it looks hyper cool as an extra added bonus.

So essentially if you only have an exotic weapon(s)….mr legendary guy will win due to having superior gear.

Is that ok? Maybe in that other game or the countless pay to win MMOs where this is a feature, but here? I play GW2 to avoid all that arms race mess. Not cool, man. Not cool.

WvW was never ment to be equal. I do know they said that for a fact. They specifically said if you want even pvp join spvp matches because WvW isn’t that.

On that note how many times are you 1v1 in wvw…. I rarely find that.

If it was meant to be equal, your level 2 character joining WvW would have full traits, and exotics + sigils, just like spvp.

They scale you sure but thats so that you don’t get farted on by a level 80 and fall over dead before you can even react….

Caran.3217:

Hermes.7014:

It’s unevitable. With new content will eventually come a level cap increase, perhaps a new level of traits and more powerful weapons and armor.
Guild Wars 2 began differently, but will become similar to the vast majority of MMOs.

I’m even fine with that, though as long as gear elitism and farm/grindfests are kept off the game.

You’re kidding yourself aren’t you or not being serious? GW1 has proven that nothing you state is ‘inevitable’.

You also seriously think that if GW2 becomes like all the other MMORPGs (RPG dude!), it won’t be plagued by the thinks you don’t like? That is very naive.

Read my previous post above in the same page.

Ascended gear is just one of the concerns.
Another GW1 major features might have changed with the sequel.

Muppolle.8075:

Gw2 has been sitting on my shelf for awhile now and i was exited to see the news of this content patch…yes finally a new area that isnt infested with anoying risen.
Then i saw this and gw2 is going to the bin and not the shelf.

Be smart and be a better human next time, embrace mother nature! Buy digital like i did, all it takes is an uninstall, no real waste material!

Wandar.3607:

Alaric.3654:

Hi, this will count as the first and perhaps last time I respond on this forum— I absolutely love watching these discourses and exchanges about a game that I’ve found very enjoyable, but I generally don’t involve myself too much.

I feel the need to add a drop to the bucket however and make my voice heard. I am perhaps the closest thing to a casual player there can be. I haven’t seen Orr yet, haven’t done a single round of WvW and I’ve run through the Ascalonian Catacombs all of one time. I never followed this game or read up on it. I just up and picked it up one day simply because I wanted to enjoy it with a friend. Thus far, Guild Wars 2 has absolutely floored me. I don’t feel at any point that I’m called upon to do any work, only that I sign on and have a good time no matter what I do. It’s been an incredible ride.

That being said, this shift in direction is extremely worrisome. I will not see Ascended Gear for a very long time. I have no clue about stat impacts, the nuances of competitive play are unknown to me and at this point, the new content offered to me with The Lost Shores is nothing but great news.

However.

I believe the addition of gear progression and gated content via the Agony mechanic can and will influence me for months to come. I’ve had nothing but a great experience with the local community and I recognize that this threatens to change that. But how? My opinion is this: the way this content is being introduced is in such a way that the effects of it will be negligible at best to begin with. A back piece and a ring, I speculate, will have little to no immediate impact on the game. But it sets a very dangerous precedent and opens the door for more and more additions like this. You take one step in the wrong direction and you find yourself on the wrong path towards making a game that was once simply about having a good time and sharing that time with close friends and like-minded strangers to an exclusive, tiered game in which the spirit of cooperation is replaced with a cold numbers game in which people will have nothing to do with each other if they don’t meet a certain numerical standard. This isn’t a danger that will have an immediate, obvious impact. It’s a slow-killing poison that over time can and will damage the credibility and the pure joy of playing this game.

I urge the kind folks at ArenaNet to rethink their current course of action, and I urge those who are discontent with this addition to raise their voices not only now, but for weeks and months to come. I know I would very much prefer to be silent and just enjoy this fantastic game and for the most part I do, but I recognize that this is a potential game-changer and I cannot be silent about this. Thank you, and I hope you all have a pleasant day.

How very well written.

I second that. I’ve been known to wax poetic from time to time, but this trumps anything I’ve written with ease. Well worded, expressive, clear, concise…. thanks for taking the time to share how you feel about this issue Alaric.

Urxx.6840:

Someone else affirmed what you just said, but so far nobody has provided any evidence whatsoever backing those claims.

I have seen the video but can’t see to find a working link to it. The actual quote is well spread and has been for a long time:

“Yeah, the level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game, and we absolutely will increase it further into the game” – Colin

FrizzFreston.5290:

The people that feel betrayed, I’m sorry for you guys.
“They said no rarity should be more powerful than the other.”

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.

Exotic was (and is) more powerful than lesser tiers, true, but the difference is that Exotic was a pinnacle people knew existed, that they did not have to reach beyond to gain that “even playing field” where they would need not focus on gear to be “as powerful” as everyone else (skill aside). People knew if they wanted to finish off the powering up of their character up to standard they would need exotic, but no more, so most were accepting of that I believe. The addition of a new tier (and presumably tiers to come) changes that, adding vertical progression that was advertised as not to occur in this game. Once you got your end gear, you were supposed to be set. People counted on that, spend $$ on fine transmutation stones, set up their preferred end set gear (or various sets for different circumstances – there is your “horizontal progression” which people had no problem with).
Now the tables are being turned, and a lot of people (myself included) clearly do not like it. Those who spent on transmutation stones for an “end set” realize we were misled into believing exotic was an end set (power-wise), and in effect that money spent on transmutation was wasted, and will be needed to be spent all over again once the ascended set is rolled out – not because we find a new kind of gear appearance we want to attach to the stats we already have, which would be acceptable and even welcomed! – But because our existing max stat set is made obsolete, which is one aspect of what people are finding unacceptable with this new gear progession sprung upon us.

Zephaust Zenith.8376:

Caran.3217:

Hermes.7014:

It’s unevitable. With new content will eventually come a level cap increase, perhaps a new level of traits and more powerful weapons and armor.
Guild Wars 2 began differently, but will become similar to the vast majority of MMOs.

I’m even fine with that, though as long as gear elitism and farm/grindfests are kept off the game.

You’re kidding yourself aren’t you or not being serious? GW1 has proven that nothing you state is ‘inevitable’.

You also seriously think that if GW2 becomes like all the other MMORPGs (RPG dude!), it won’t be plagued by the thinks you don’t like? That is very naive.

Read my previous post above in the same page.

Ascended gear is just one of the concerns.
Another GW1 major features might have changed with the sequel.

Yep seems like they planed this, to be just like that ‘other’ MMORPG, from the outset. Fighting the fight everyone else has lost – up front subscription fee or ‘hidden’ one like you elaborated.

Shame i have been falling for all the spin and lies.

Namu.5712:

WvW was never ment to be equal. I do know they said that for a fact. They specifically said if you want even pvp join spvp matches because WvW isn’t that.

On that note how many times are you 1v1 in wvw…. I rarely find that.

If it was meant to be equal, your level 2 character joining WvW would have full traits, and exotics + sigils, just like spvp.

They scale you sure but thats so that you don’t get farted on by a level 80 and fall over dead before you can even react….

Right now there is absolutely no stat difference between true 80s since there is no gear disparity if both have exotics. After these changes it will have an impact, a massive one at that. Imagine a thief hitting for 5k now, instead hitting for 6.5k after? That breaks the game for true 80s and the lower levels together.

Like to point out that the scaling tech is pretty good here in GW2. My level 2 is capable of smacking a true 80 for up to 6k if I get lucky. Difference is not really gear but the amount of skills/slots unlocked; more versatility. A level 40+ can compete pretty well actually; stack your prefered stats and the scaling tech will buff them. It actually might be cheaper and better to twink a 40+ toon to combat legendary lvl 80s…maybe. It begs experimentation…

Having said that, Wv3 is end game for many of us and it is unsettling they are so quick to wreck whatever balance has been done so far; it actually will throw it entirely out of whack and will inevitably result in knee jerk, over done nerfs to classes and their abilities. I see it coming.

Last thought; Wv3 is end game content. It is something meant for capped players to do. It is the pinnacle of PvP to me. sPvP is just like any other BG driven game I have played a million times and thus not really interesting. Keep Ascended and Legendaries outa Wv3; that would please me to no end.

nice post frizz i agree with your sentiments I do.

Ok i stand corrected they said legendarys were on par with exotics, now they will change legendarys to remain best in slot item. They havent said they wont change exotics also, in fact they have even said legendarys were designed to be the same as exotics so this almost infers they will change exotics also.

However, this is not the issue I feel. I feel the main issue at theheart of this discussion is wether anet lied to players about there manifesto. http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto This is a link to that manifesto that alot of people are mentioning.

Mike O’Brian typed the following..

It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

I’m sorry but this is all i can see here about gear. I dont feel they have lied to you about a gear grind as this wasent specifically mentioned. Im sure it wasent mentioned for the exact reason we see here today in this thread and what is being discussed but hey, mute point huh?

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

Lets break this sentance down and really take a look at it.

This new dungeon and gear is not about preparing to have fun, this I feel is true but to be honest the oppisite conclusion can also be obtained from this.

Or about grinding for a future fun reward.

This dungeon is not about grinding for a future fun reward either. However! the oppisite conclusion could also be extrapolated from this sentance and what is occuring also.

Basically, what im getting at, is that they havent actually lied about anything because the manifesto is deliberatly vague on this point. For this I dont blame them, people on the internet these days will try to find holes in anything people say in order to "prove" there point is the right one.

Now I agree, we should get a clear explanation about all this to stop all this conjecture that is flying about. Until that time I beleive that we havent been lied to and that thjey are doing exactly what they promised.

Wildclaw.6073:

Urxx.6840:

Someone else affirmed what you just said, but so far nobody has provided any evidence whatsoever backing those claims.

I have seen the video but can’t see to find a working link to it. The actual quote is well spread and has been for a long time:

“Yeah, the level cap will be 80 on the initial release of the game, and we absolutely will increase it further into the game” – Colin

The reason why a quote is needed is also to put that kind of statement in context. In the early phases of the GW2 development they weren’t even sure they would have a level cap at all.

Even if that sentence does in fact come from Colin Johanson, it could mean nothing unless is very recent.

ANet uses an iterative approach to their production process and that idea could now be obsolete.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.

Except.. you know… this was already the case. Exotic already had more power than rare, which had more power than masterwork.Where were you all at the start of the game, when this clearly wasn’t an issue?
But now, when they decided.. Exotic gear is too easy to get, we need a new tier to properly set the barrier for the people to get the maximum stats. Everyone is up in arms about it.

- Everyone that spent some efforts getting a rare knew perfectly well he wasn’t getting the best but only some “temporary” gear. People that spent some efforts for pre Ascended announcement exotics got shafted
- Except for jewelry, every single level 74+ rare can be refunded practically at 100% by making ectos out of it once you are done with it. The market value of those rares is pretty close to the expected return on salvaging them. As a result, spending money to gear up in temporary rares is an extremely efficient use of your gold. Doing the same for temporary exotics on the other hand …

Shadow Blade.1324:

Ballistic.4531:

They are increasing stats on Legendary items. No more optional-anything. Legendary weaps are a must, and soon Legendary armor as well.

thought that wasn’t due for several months (next year basically) after they drip feed us the rest of the ascended armour etc when they introduce ascended wepons

but nothing else is getting upgrades which i beleive is what was being implied

Jezath.7395:

Correct me please if i am wrong but they dident say if it would be legendarys or not. They just said they will be upgrading items already ingame to bring them inline with the new gear and make it so that it was not a wasted effort to get those items..
thus mjolnir etc are worthless unless you want a pretty expensive skin for that new ascended wepon youll be rocking

ah its nice to infer things correctly

" Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items"

^ from linsey’s post

Changing the quote from my post does not make it true. I did not say this last sentance in the quote.

Jezath.7395:

Ok i stand corrected they said legendarys were on par with exotics, now they will change legendarys to remain best in slot item. They havent said they wont change exotics also, in fact they have even said legendarys were designed to be the same as exotics so this almost infers they will change exotics also.

Except for the fact that (even stated with screen shot) ascended gears will be better than exotics, and legendary will get bumped to match the ascended.

fixit.7189:

Namu.5712:

WvW was never ment to be equal. I do know they said that for a fact. They specifically said if you want even pvp join spvp matches because WvW isn’t that.

On that note how many times are you 1v1 in wvw…. I rarely find that.

If it was meant to be equal, your level 2 character joining WvW would have full traits, and exotics + sigils, just like spvp.

They scale you sure but thats so that you don’t get farted on by a level 80 and fall over dead before you can even react….

Right now there is absolutely no stat difference between true 80s since there is no gear disparity if both have exotics. After these changes it will have an impact, a massive one at that. Imagine a thief hitting for 5k now, instead hitting for 6.5k after? That breaks the game for true 80s and the lower levels.

Last not, the scaling tech is pretty good here in GW2. My level 2 is capable of smacking a true 80 for up to 6k if I get lucky. Difference is not really gear but the amount of differences in amount of skills/slots unlocked. A level 40+ can compete pretty well actually; stack your prefered stats and the scaling tech will buff them.

Having said that, Wv3 is end game for many of us and it is unsettling they are so quick to wreck whatever balance has been done so far; it actually will throw it entirely out of whack and will inevitably result in knee jerk, over done nerfs to classes and their abilities. I see it coming.

Ya you say that but thats not how they view WvW. My warrior can one shot non 80’s as it is.

A level 2 tank build vs a level 80 tank build is a major difference for example. talking like 10k -15k difference then defense wise the 80 will have much higher rating stat wise.

Also it sounds like you recieve this new gear through WvW as well so if you are a WvW end game player its likely you will recieve the items anyways as they come out.

But that aside, its not meant to be equal. Plain and simple. An 80 in exotics right now will do the same to a 80 in blues and greens as an 80 in ascended gear will do to an 80 in exotics. I was pretty much instant exotics by 80 anyways, they weren’t hard to get by any means… time invested leveling was the same time invested for endgame gear really.

Heres from the wiki:
In WvW, characters will have their effective level boosted to 80 but do not receive any new abilities or gear, and experience must still be gained to unlock them. Therefore, higher level characters will still be more powerful than lower level characters, despite both having the same effective level. Levels gained in WvW are kept and a player may level to the maximum 80 entirely within WvW.

Now the last bit of your post I am afraid of, I really hope that doesn’t happen. But you are probably right and it will happen.

A counter to this would be to limit WvW to exotic level gear and lower. Making ascended and legendary pve only. You could keep the appearance of your ascended or legendary upon entering WvW but it would be scaled down to what exotics are at.

I stand corrected Zplus. thankyou.

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Namu.5712:

WvW was never ment to be equal. I do know they said that for a fact. They specifically said if you want even pvp join spvp matches because WvW isn’t that.

On that note how many times are you 1v1 in wvw…. I rarely find that.

If it was meant to be equal, your level 2 character joining WvW would have full traits, and exotics + sigils, just like spvp.

They scale you sure but thats so that you don’t get farted on by a level 80 and fall over dead before you can even react….

Right now there is absolutely no stat difference between true 80s since there is no gear disparity if both have exotics. After these changes it will have an impact, a massive one at that. Imagine a thief hitting for 5k now, instead hitting for 6.5k after? That breaks the game for true 80s and the lower levels.

Last not, the scaling tech is pretty good here in GW2. My level 2 is capable of smacking a true 80 for up to 6k if I get lucky. Difference is not really gear but the amount of differences in amount of skills/slots unlocked. A level 40+ can compete pretty well actually; stack your prefered stats and the scaling tech will buff them.

Having said that, Wv3 is end game for many of us and it is unsettling they are so quick to wreck whatever balance has been done so far; it actually will throw it entirely out of whack and will inevitably result in knee jerk, over done nerfs to classes and their abilities. I see it coming.

Ya you say that but thats not how they view WvW. My warrior can one shot non 80’s as it is.

A level 2 tank build vs a level 80 tank build is a major difference for example. talking like 10k -15k difference then defense wise the 80 will have much higher rating stat wise.

Also it sounds like you recieve this new gear through WvW as well so if you are a WvW end game player its likely you will recieve the items anyways as they come out.

But that aside, its not meant to be equal. Plain and simple. An 80 in exotics right now will do the same to a 80 in blues and greens as an 80 in ascended gear will do to an 80 in exotics. I was pretty much instant exotics by 80 anyways, they weren’t hard to get by any means… time invested leveling was the same time invested for endgame gear really.

Heres from the wiki:
In WvW, characters will have their effective level boosted to 80 but do not receive any new abilities or gear, and experience must still be gained to unlock them. Therefore, higher level characters will still be more powerful than lower level characters, despite both having the same effective level. Levels gained in WvW are kept and a player may level to the maximum 80 entirely within WvW.

They have explicitley stated that this gear will not effect PVP. Now, im not sure about wvwvw but in the tournements at least it will remain balanced and you will not see this gear in there. I wouldent be suprised if they scale down the gear to exotic lvl in wvw also. but this is just conjecture we do not know either way on this point yet.

Jezath.7395:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Namu.5712:

WvW was never ment to be equal. I do know they said that for a fact. They specifically said if you want even pvp join spvp matches because WvW isn’t that.

On that note how many times are you 1v1 in wvw…. I rarely find that.

If it was meant to be equal, your level 2 character joining WvW would have full traits, and exotics + sigils, just like spvp.

They scale you sure but thats so that you don’t get farted on by a level 80 and fall over dead before you can even react….

Right now there is absolutely no stat difference between true 80s since there is no gear disparity if both have exotics. After these changes it will have an impact, a massive one at that. Imagine a thief hitting for 5k now, instead hitting for 6.5k after? That breaks the game for true 80s and the lower levels.

Last not, the scaling tech is pretty good here in GW2. My level 2 is capable of smacking a true 80 for up to 6k if I get lucky. Difference is not really gear but the amount of differences in amount of skills/slots unlocked. A level 40+ can compete pretty well actually; stack your prefered stats and the scaling tech will buff them.

Having said that, Wv3 is end game for many of us and it is unsettling they are so quick to wreck whatever balance has been done so far; it actually will throw it entirely out of whack and will inevitably result in knee jerk, over done nerfs to classes and their abilities. I see it coming.

Ya you say that but thats not how they view WvW. My warrior can one shot non 80’s as it is.

A level 2 tank build vs a level 80 tank build is a major difference for example. talking like 10k -15k difference then defense wise the 80 will have much higher rating stat wise.

Also it sounds like you recieve this new gear through WvW as well so if you are a WvW end game player its likely you will recieve the items anyways as they come out.

But that aside, its not meant to be equal. Plain and simple. An 80 in exotics right now will do the same to a 80 in blues and greens as an 80 in ascended gear will do to an 80 in exotics. I was pretty much instant exotics by 80 anyways, they weren’t hard to get by any means… time invested leveling was the same time invested for endgame gear really.

Heres from the wiki:
In WvW, characters will have their effective level boosted to 80 but do not receive any new abilities or gear, and experience must still be gained to unlock them. Therefore, higher level characters will still be more powerful than lower level characters, despite both having the same effective level. Levels gained in WvW are kept and a player may level to the maximum 80 entirely within WvW.

They have explicitley stated that this gear will not effect PVP. Now, im not sure about wvwvw but in the tournements at least it will remain balanced and you will not see this gear in there. I wouldent be suprised if they scale down the gear to exotic lvl in wvw also. but this is just conjecture we do not know either way on this point yet.

Ya I think it should be scaled down to exotic level while your in WvW making your legendary/ascended gear purely a pve only stat boost if thats the way they are going.

But that doesn’t solve other problems outside of pvp.

They said PvP, but not what type of PvP.

I assume its sPvP and not Wv3.

sPvP has its own gear sets so of course it will not be affected.

It’s Wv3 that is the question and I assume much like it now: anything goes.

And no matter what anyone says….Wv3 is PvP and highly competive at that. Possibly more so than sPvP will ever be.

Jezath.7395:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Namu.5712:

WvW was never ment to be equal. I do know they said that for a fact. They specifically said if you want even pvp join spvp matches because WvW isn’t that.

On that note how many times are you 1v1 in wvw…. I rarely find that.

If it was meant to be equal, your level 2 character joining WvW would have full traits, and exotics + sigils, just like spvp.

They scale you sure but thats so that you don’t get farted on by a level 80 and fall over dead before you can even react….

Right now there is absolutely no stat difference between true 80s since there is no gear disparity if both have exotics. After these changes it will have an impact, a massive one at that. Imagine a thief hitting for 5k now, instead hitting for 6.5k after? That breaks the game for true 80s and the lower levels.

Last not, the scaling tech is pretty good here in GW2. My level 2 is capable of smacking a true 80 for up to 6k if I get lucky. Difference is not really gear but the amount of differences in amount of skills/slots unlocked. A level 40+ can compete pretty well actually; stack your prefered stats and the scaling tech will buff them.

Having said that, Wv3 is end game for many of us and it is unsettling they are so quick to wreck whatever balance has been done so far; it actually will throw it entirely out of whack and will inevitably result in knee jerk, over done nerfs to classes and their abilities. I see it coming.

Ya you say that but thats not how they view WvW. My warrior can one shot non 80’s as it is.

A level 2 tank build vs a level 80 tank build is a major difference for example. talking like 10k -15k difference then defense wise the 80 will have much higher rating stat wise.

Also it sounds like you recieve this new gear through WvW as well so if you are a WvW end game player its likely you will recieve the items anyways as they come out.

But that aside, its not meant to be equal. Plain and simple. An 80 in exotics right now will do the same to a 80 in blues and greens as an 80 in ascended gear will do to an 80 in exotics. I was pretty much instant exotics by 80 anyways, they weren’t hard to get by any means… time invested leveling was the same time invested for endgame gear really.

Heres from the wiki:
In WvW, characters will have their effective level boosted to 80 but do not receive any new abilities or gear, and experience must still be gained to unlock them. Therefore, higher level characters will still be more powerful than lower level characters, despite both having the same effective level. Levels gained in WvW are kept and a player may level to the maximum 80 entirely within WvW.

They have explicitley stated that this gear will not effect PVP. Now, im not sure about wvwvw but in the tournements at least it will remain balanced and you will not see this gear in there. I wouldent be suprised if they scale down the gear to exotic lvl in wvw also. but this is just conjecture we do not know either way on this point yet.

WvW is a pvp mode… dont care about it is a really bad decision.
Because if this gear is excluded by Spvp, it mean that it can effect the balance of PVP. situations.
i dont care about Spvp, i dont have time to make a pro team, but i enjoy WvW because i know that my opponent cant have a gear better then mine if i am full exotic, that is quite easy to make.

fixit.7189:

They said PvP, but not what type of PvP.

I assume its sPvP and not Wv3.

And no matter what anyone says….Wv3 is PvP and highly competive at that. Possibly more so than sPvP will ever be.

While that may be true its no where near a balanced state. And that’s how its supposed to be.

People talking about gear and wasted time make me chuckle, try taking a map then losing all your hard work while your not there.

I agree with these points fixit and namu. wvwvw gives stat bonuses so you could say it is more important than Spvp. However imho its 200 vs 200 or whatever the population cap is and a fw point of stats on maybe 25% of players will not make that big a difference.

Wrong. There is balance atm. Gear threshhold in Wv3 has a cap.

True exo 80 vs True exo 80 in Wv3 atm is equal in gear.

It does not matter about legendaries since their stats are equal to exo; thus no problems there.

Difference is skill.

After they go through with this:

True legendary 80 >>>>> True exo 80.

If you don’t spend the time, money, and or RL money you are doomed to being second best. That is not right and true to their Manifesto.

Last point: 3x orb bonus was axed b/c it made Wv3 unbalanced. Stat increase was to great. What they are doin with legendaries and Ascended gear is like giving everyone access to their very own personal ‘3 orbs’ via gears as long as you grind/pay $$ for it.

Jezath.7395:

I agree with these points fixit and namu. wvwvw gives stat bonuses so you could say it is more important than Spvp. However imho its 200 vs 200 or whatever the population cap is and a fw point of stats on maybe 25% of players will not make that big a difference.

Its not always 200 vs 200, depend on the situation… and when you are 1v1 with someone now, you know that his gear cant be better than yours. so if you lose, its your fault, or simply the enemy is skilled then you, and you only have to improve you skills!

whit different tiers, i really dont know how can become a fun experience.

Well this is also true for people in white gear compared to blue, or blue compared to green. Its always been the case, why so worried now?

Jezath.7395:

I agree with these points fixit and namu. wvwvw gives stat bonuses so you could say it is more important than Spvp. However imho its 200 vs 200 or whatever the population cap is and a fw point of stats on maybe 25% of players will not make that big a difference.

Ya if you get aoed by 20 players your gonna die regardless of if they are in exotic gear or ascended really.

It would really only make a huge difference in small group pvp, which is rather rare depending on the server. If it were say 5v5 and 5 had all ascended and the other for whatever reason had exotics and lower then they would be at a disadvantage. But again something like that would be very rare.

Which now makes me curious on how its aquired through WvW…. badges?