Guild Wars 2

I don’t know what you did to our attributes on down-leveled character but lv.80 characters right now are pretty useless, the time it takes for a lv80 zerk ascen-exotic mixed char to kill a veteran is pretty much the same for a lv.11 in queensdale, Not to say you nerf us in advance by taking passive specialization attributes from us.

what does that mean?
leveling, gear customization are rendered useless right now, why armed to the teeth when lv.80 are forced to score like lv.11 no matter what gears we have?

So you didn’t see the other thread on this topic in the top half of this page?

UNO.4906:

I don’t know what you did to our attributes on down-leveled character but lv.80 characters right now are pretty useless, the time it takes for a lv80 zerk ascen-exotic mixed char to kill a veteran is pretty much the same for a lv.11 in queensdale, Not to say you nerf us in advance by taking passive specialization attributes from us.

what does that mean?
leveling, gear customization are rendered useless right now, why armed to the teeth when lv.80 are forced to score like lv.11 no matter what gears we have?

How’s it a silent nerf when it was in the patch notes?

OP not only didn’t see that it was in the patch notes (which makes it not so silent), but also didn’t see that some people support the change. Nor does he realize that some people have asked for the change.

The whole idea of downscaling has always been to make content meaningful. That means you know, there’s a chance for something bad to happen to you. Maybe you don’t realize it, OP, but a lot of people have been complaining the game is too easy. This is a nerf some of us have been asking for.

OP, what exactly do you think the point of downleveling characters was in the first place?

Widely asked for changes that are clearly mentioned in patch notes are my favorite kind of stealth nerf.

In general, scaling down has been weakened, and scaling up has been increased.
Stat scaling now better accounts for level ranges at which equipment begins offering more possible stats (e.g., one-, two-, or three-stat pieces of gear).
Rarity scaling now takes into account how close you are to the maximum available rarity when scaling up or down.
Some minor “stack on kill” sigils have had their values reduced.

Is this it, as far as patch notes go? Then it wasn’t terribly clear.

What is “weakened”? What is “increased”? (rhetorical question, as we now know).
Gear is supposed to account better for rarity. Does this mean that my exotic or ascended piece should give more of a stat than a best available green piece of the same level as what I’m scaled to? This isn’t what I’m seeing (green pieces are actually better when downscaled).

Anyway… if this is the official party line, then so be it I suppose. Too bad the nerf herders won out. GW2 was fun while it lasted. Have fun using nerfs as a marketing tool for HoT, ANET

Nerfs won’t affect HoT at all since the entire expansion is going to be level 80. No down scaling, no nerf.

Xdmatt.3958:

In general, scaling down has been weakened, and scaling up has been increased.
Stat scaling now better accounts for level ranges at which equipment begins offering more possible stats (e.g., one-, two-, or three-stat pieces of gear).
Rarity scaling now takes into account how close you are to the maximum available rarity when scaling up or down.
Some minor “stack on kill” sigils have had their values reduced.

Is this it, as far as patch notes go? Then it wasn’t terribly clear.

What is “weakened”? What is “increased”? (rhetorical question, as we now know).
Gear is supposed to account better for rarity. Does this mean that my exotic or ascended piece should give more of a stat than a best available green piece of the same level as what I’m scaled to? This isn’t what I’m seeing (green pieces are actually better when downscaled).

Anyway… if this is the official party line, then so be it I suppose. Too bad the nerf herders won out. GW2 was fun while it lasted. Have fun using nerfs as a marketing tool for HoT, ANET

This was a much requested ‘nerf’ though. Fans did ask for this. The official party line in this case is Anet listened to it’s fan base.

Pretty good party line.

UNO.4906:

what does that mean?
leveling, gear customization are rendered useless right now, why armed to the teeth when lv.80 are forced to score like lv.11 no matter what gears we have?

Which is exactly how GW2 is designed to be.

You still get noticable advantages from runes and sigils though. Last I checked, sigils didnt even scale (ie a fire proc instantly killed low level creatures), but that was prepatch. I havent even bothered checking now because I dont care. A level 80 char still plow through level 10 stuff.

Vayne.8563:

OP not only didn’t see that it was in the patch notes (which makes it not so silent), but also didn’t see that some people support the change. Nor does he realize that some people have asked for the change.

The whole idea of downscaling has always been to make content meaningful. That means you know, there’s a chance for something bad to happen to you. Maybe you don’t realize it, OP, but a lot of people have been complaining the game is too easy. This is a nerf some of us have been asking for.

It is still very easy.

Personally I think this new scaling is lame. What doesn’t get mentioned is lvl 80 players armorvalue is also heavily reduced so now you take damage like a wet tissue.

Players claim they used to one-shoot low-lvl mobs before although I’ve never seen it let alone one-shotted anything myself. Now IF is was possible, should I be able to one-shoot lvl 2 mobs? Of course, if my level is 40 times that of the mob.

“Much requested nerf” ?? By whom? As if lvl 80’s in full ascended spend so much time in Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica or Caledon Forrest. Some of the very few I see in those maps with Legendary weapons – and I have to assume they also wear Ascended armor – are the ones I have to resurrect. Lets hope they requested this new scaling.

Upscale mobs, not players. 90% of the problem solved instantly as most players are level 80 anyway.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Upscale mobs, not players. 90% of the problem solved instantly as most players are level 80 anyway.

That would not work at all…

Anyway, Anet went too far with the downscaling. Downscaling os good, but full ascended should not be out-done in damage by a new player leveling.

The scaling is no so out of order .. last night i felt in Frostgorge as if i was in Queensdale
before the nerf, since mobs in normal events died there very often before i could
make a hit, while mobs in Wayfarer Foothills still live after 5-6 hits.

dietzero.3514:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Upscale mobs, not players. 90% of the problem solved instantly as most players are level 80 anyway.

That would not work at all…

Anyway, Anet went too far with the downscaling. Downscaling os good, but full ascended should not be out-done in damage by a new player leveling.

Of course it would work. And the advantage is

1. Players have tons of stats that need to be accounted for when scaling (the usual toughness, vitality, etc. and stats from skills, traits, food, consumables). And it’s really easy to ruin player builds with scaling (those that need precision, for example). Mobs, on the other hand, have no traits and barely any skills. So it’s easier to balance the scaling of mobs.
2. Most players are level 80. If mobs are default level 80, then no scaling is used most of the time. So even if your scaling algorithm is not perfect, most players are satisfied. Currently, most players are 80 so they’re downscaled: so if your scaling algorithm is bad, most players are affected negatively.

How does it work?

• Mobs are default level 80.
• Each player sees a mob as being the same level as that player. A level 40 will see that mob as level 40, while a level 60 will see that mob as level 60.
• Damage a player does to a mob is converted to a percentage of that mob’s health. That’s how much health each player sees the mob losing. For example: a level 40 sees a mob as having 1000 health. A level 60 sees that same mob as having 2000 health. The level 40 does 100 damage to the mob. 100 is 10% of 1000. So to every single player, that mob appears to lose 10% of its health. The level 40 sees the mob has 900 health now and the level 60 sees it as having 1800 health.
• UI health bars show health as percentages anyway, so nothing UI-wise has to be modified.
• This can be tweaked as desired. For example if Anet doesn’t want a level 2 person in Orr, they can set a limit on downscaling. So mobs in Orr might only be allowed to downscale to at most level 60 and never below, for example.

How is a player level 80? I’m intrigued behind the reasoning of this.

Tomorrow is a patch day, I hope it will be fixed. For me the nerf came because of the power increase with new trait system and moving stats from trait lines to gear. I’m waiting for rebalance for downscaling because being downscaled lvl 20 weaker than genuine lvl 20 is lame.

I hope future updates and HoT will be tested because it is clear for me that June 23rd patch didn’t even get basic testing.

I’m someone who is rather bad at action combat due to physical limitations. I didn’t mind this as much as I knew that upon leveling to 80 and getting a full set of exotic equipment (courtesy of a lovely guildie) I will be able to manage most things at least outside of Orr. Which is exactly what happened.

The nerf is noticable for me. Now it feels like I’m much closer to the pre-80 and pre-exotic period of my character’s life and I yet again find myself dying over and over to everything. Have to resort to constantly asking others to help me out when I would like to explore or do jumping puzzles because I can no longer handle combat situations I could before. It’s not fun.

Back to WoW for the time being.

Tea.7025:

I’m someone who is rather bad at action combat due to physical limitations. I didn’t mind this as much as I knew that upon leveling to 80 and getting a full set of exotic equipment (courtesy of a lovely guildie) I will be able to manage most things at least outside of Orr. Which is exactly what happened.

The nerf is noticable for me. Now it feels like I’m much closer to the pre-80 and pre-exotic period of my character’s life and I yet again find myself dying over and over to everything. Have to resort to constantly asking others to help me out when I would like to explore or do jumping puzzles because I can no longer handle combat situations I could before. It’s not fun.

Back to WoW for the time being.

Hey, change to a build and stats that suit more your needs.

It will take more time to down a mob but you will survive and explore.

Also theres plenty of builds that can just overlook combat.

zenleto.6179:

How is a player level 80? I’m intrigued behind the reasoning of this.

+1 lol

In a serius note, im happy with the changes, i advice people having problems to either practice or change to builds and stats that suit them (or both depending of the situation).

And as Zenleto said, if they go for upscaling they will punish new players (gw2 retention rate was – not sure if it still is- an issue for Anet), plus you will get a great group of veterans thatwere saying that they want the change reverting, saying that now (when upscaling exist) leveling its anoying or imposible.

Point: Upscaling its way worst that downscaling, if you want to feel like you are strong, do it with skills. And to be skilled you need practice, so the more you play the potentially better you are.

Xdmatt.3958:

In general, scaling down has been weakened, and scaling up has been increased.
Stat scaling now better accounts for level ranges at which equipment begins offering more possible stats (e.g., one-, two-, or three-stat pieces of gear).
Rarity scaling now takes into account how close you are to the maximum available rarity when scaling up or down.
Some minor “stack on kill” sigils have had their values reduced.

Is this it, as far as patch notes go? Then it wasn’t terribly clear.

What is “weakened”? What is “increased”? (rhetorical question, as we now know).
Gear is supposed to account better for rarity. Does this mean that my exotic or ascended piece should give more of a stat than a best available green piece of the same level as what I’m scaled to? This isn’t what I’m seeing (green pieces are actually better when downscaled).

Anyway… if this is the official party line, then so be it I suppose. Too bad the nerf herders won out. GW2 was fun while it lasted. Have fun using nerfs as a marketing tool for HoT, ANET

It’s actually pretty clear. They couldn’t give exact values, because there was so much to take into account, so they wrote “weakened” and “increased” – no need to go into specifics, really.

Gear accounting for rarity means that the better your gear, the stronger it remains. It does not mean that ascended gear makes you stronger than the best available piece of the level you scaled to. Scaling is supposed to make you be around the same strength as a character of that level, after all. And someone has speculated about why low-level green pieces seem better: You get three stats, they get one or two, so their individual bonuses are higher.

Annika.7084:

Personally I think this new scaling is lame. What doesn’t get mentioned is lvl 80 players armorvalue is also heavily reduced so now you take damage like a wet tissue.

Players claim they used to one-shoot low-lvl mobs before although I’ve never seen it let alone one-shotted anything myself. Now IF is was possible, should I be able to one-shoot lvl 2 mobs? Of course, if my level is 40 times that of the mob.

“Much requested nerf” ?? By whom? As if lvl 80’s in full ascended spend so much time in Queensdale, Plains of Ashford, Metrica or Caledon Forrest. Some of the very few I see in those maps with Legendary weapons – and I have to assume they also wear Ascended armor – are the ones I have to resurrect. Lets hope they requested this new scaling.

Downscaled characters were extremely overpowered before the patch. If you’ve never one-shotted anything, you weren’t in Queensdale or similar zones. High level characters out-damaged low level characters so much that they dominated events. And no, your character isn’t 40 times the level of the mob, they’ve been downscaled to about its level, hence you shouldn’t be much stronger than a normal level player with good gear.

Who requested that feature? People like me who have tons of alts (though apparently with one of each profession, I’m actually rather tame) and new players who were fed up by supposedly downscaled characters effectively stealing their kills. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but kill stealing isn’t something that’s supposed to be possible in GW2. And yes, plenty of high leveled characters run around in low level zones. The Queensdale champ train, now defunct if memory serves, was not run by characters of the zone’s level.

And lastly: armour. You now have to actually pay attention when you’re playing in low level zones. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

It was suppose to be like this since launch. Low level content remaining challenging was one of the things they wanted with gw2. But for 3 years we’ve had a very ineffective downscaling.

You’re still stronger than an low level character. Just not as ridiculously much anymore.

Terrahero.9358:

It was suppose to be like this since launch.

Do you have any data or quote to prove this statement? Or is it a wild guess? Because I don’t see any comment from Anet that it’s a bug or intended change. I know it’s in patch notes but the nerf seems over the top and considering how many bugs were introduced 2 weeks ago the scaling can be bugged also.

Lucius.2140:

In a serius note, im happy with the changes, i advice people having problems to either practice or change to builds and stats that suit them (or both depending of the situation).

Its not that i have problems with anything .. i just don’t like it to have crafted
ascended gear and leveled to 80 to find myself weaker than a level 40 in green
stuff in a midlevel zone.

If they really want to make all areas even, then they should simply remove the
whole concept of levels and everyone is 80 at creation and we can forget about
blue and green gear. Maybe make the whole game like sPvP where you can
select your amulet for free .. and thats it.

krzygum.4028:

Terrahero.9358:

It was suppose to be like this since launch.

Do you have any data or quote to prove this statement? Or is it a wild guess? Because I don’t see any comment from Anet that it’s a bug or intended change. I know it’s in patch notes but the nerf seems over the top and considering how many bugs were introduced 2 weeks ago the scaling can be bugged also.

I think I’ll just repeat my question: What do you think the point of downscaling is in the first place?

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Terrahero.9358:

It was suppose to be like this since launch.

Do you have any data or quote to prove this statement? Or is it a wild guess? Because I don’t see any comment from Anet that it’s a bug or intended change. I know it’s in patch notes but the nerf seems over the top and considering how many bugs were introduced 2 weeks ago the scaling can be bugged also.

I think I’ll just repeat my question: What do you think the point of downscaling is in the first place?

I asked first – data or wild guess?

krzygum.4028:

tairneanach.8427:

krzygum.4028:

Terrahero.9358:

It was suppose to be like this since launch.

Do you have any data or quote to prove this statement? Or is it a wild guess? Because I don’t see any comment from Anet that it’s a bug or intended change. I know it’s in patch notes but the nerf seems over the top and considering how many bugs were introduced 2 weeks ago the scaling can be bugged also.

I think I’ll just repeat my question: What do you think the point of downscaling is in the first place?

I asked first – data or wild guess?

Er… Are we in the playground or something? If so: Nu-uh, I asked first. See the fourth post in this thread. That I didn’t ask you doesn’t make you exempt from answering it.

And no, it’s not a wild guess. It’s just logical reasoning. But fine, if you don’t want to answer the question, I will: What purpose could downscaling have? Why, to make high level players more equal to the content they’re playing when they enter low level areas.
Follow-up question: Would it make sense, then, when characters were capable of wasting their opposition with ease? And I’ll answer that for you too: No, it wouldn’t. Hence the nerf.

But fine, you wanted hard facts, so here’s a quote from an interview done way back when sidekicking was still a thing. It’s since developed into the scaling mechanic we know now:

“CJ: There is side kicking in all of dungeons in the game. Each dungeon whether it is a story dungeon or an explorable dungeon has a correlated level that your character gets side kicked down to if you are over the level of the dungeon, but we do not sidekick you up to the level of the dungeon. So to do any of the dungeons in the game you need to get be high enough level to participate in it and then if you go over level for it, we’ll side kick you down to keep it challenging and fun for you. So for example the Ascalon Catacombs story dungeon is a level 30 and if you get up to say, level 38 we’ll side kick you down to the level of the dungeon so you can keep playing it with everyone and have it be fun and challenging for you.”

Taken from here:
http://www.tashadarke.co.uk/2012/04/eufandayqandapt1/

But I don’t disagree with you about downscaling being necessary, however, as I stated in this thread already, while I consider this change necessary I think it was made over the top.

And about some personal implications in your post, please keep it to yourself and talk about topic only.

I’ve been waiting for low level content to become challenging again for 3 years! They promised us this and finally delivered and still there’s someone who complains about it.

We were overpowered all this time in low level zones and people who suffered the most from it were low level chars that were just trying to level up, when a level 80 char comes in and plows through the mobs like hot knife through butter. I like that it’s more fair now.

Zergs.9715:

I’ve been waiting for low level content to become challenging again for 3 years!

I always love this posts. Are you people really level up to 80, gear yourself up in
exotic or even ascended, just to go then directly to Queensdale to have a greater
challenge then you had there as when you were level 1-15 ?

Oh my gawd .. i leveled up to 80 .. and now i am NOT weaker than i was at
level 1 .. that can’t be right .. the whole reason for leveling is to get weaker
and weaker. If i’m 80 i expect to need a full party of five to kill a skelk in
Queensdale .. and not oneshot it like those newbies.

Really .. go kill some Terragriffons if you want more challenge.

Is it actually true that downscaled toons are worse than intended level, or is it hyperbole?
I have ’t had much chance to look into it

Randulf.7614:

Is it actually true that downscaled toons are worse than intended level, or is it hyperbole?
I have ’t had much chance to look into it

In terms of stats perhaps. Not necessarily in terms of total character performance.

Downscaling is done for a reason.

Gear gets toned down to the maximum rarity possible at that level. All stats get reduced too. Since critical calculations take your actual level instead the downscaled level, greatly reduce precision is needed to compensate.

This is to reduce things like people 1-shotting enemies in low level areas, preventing lower level character from hitting anything. Which, by the way, still happens. I just tried with a Soldier elementalist, I can still 1 shot wurms in the first farm heart in Queensdale. Someone can still troll newbies by killing the wurms before they can land 1 hit, because scaling is not enough there as people gets scaled to level 6 instead the level of the area: 2.

krzygum.4028:

Terrahero.9358:

It was suppose to be like this since launch.

Do you have any data or quote to prove this statement? Or is it a wild guess? Because I don’t see any comment from Anet that it’s a bug or intended change. I know it’s in patch notes but the nerf seems over the top and considering how many bugs were introduced 2 weeks ago the scaling can be bugged also.

“You’ll still be more powerful in lower-level zones because you have more traits, skills, and gear, but the level adjustment system will insure that the monsters give you a proper fight.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

It never worked as they intended, my mes could one shot with one shatter clone.
Now its working as intended, but overall some people dont like the idea of downscaling.

Noone is arguing against downscaling. However the last patch kind of butchered whole idea of gearing and leveling. What is the reason to get better items or leveling, when your performance is downgraded below genuine level?

Tomorrow is patch day. I hope they will fix this.

Beldin.5498:

Lucius.2140:

In a serius note, im happy with the changes, i advice people having problems to either practice or change to builds and stats that suit them (or both depending of the situation).

Its not that i have problems with anything .. i just don’t like it to have crafted
ascended gear and leveled to 80 to find myself weaker than a level 40 in green
stuff in a midlevel zone.

If they really want to make all areas even, then they should simply remove the
whole concept of levels and everyone is 80 at creation and we can forget about
blue and green gear. Maybe make the whole game like sPvP where you can
select your amulet for free .. and thats it.

About the green vs ascended: thats bad you are suposed to be scaled to the actual top gear of that level: yellow equipment.

About the leveling, i agree, but they didnt do it because leveling make people feel some progresion and also make more difficult that a new char can go to arah and kill Zaithan. You need to grow up for that, after all a level 2 vs a a level 80 mob its in a very bad situation (still i think theres some cases of people trying and suceding).

The other way around for not leveling would be to make the mobs in “higher” areas, stronger in AI and some extra adamage, atacks , etc. In a sense the dumbing down of leveling zones do that (in the wrong way).

The problem with that, a side from making half the players in game quit the game, its that it require more resources to a proper implementation. Resouces not only in difficulty scaling, but also in making rewards increase with risk and effort, so that the low level areas dont become super farm spots. But at the same time create different rewards, making high skilled players have incentive to go to easier areas (other case the game become only one or two maps – whats happening since the game started, because most areas lacked proper rewards- they are trying, at their pace, to fix it).

Personally i would have loved that kind of setup, making so that you only get experience to unlock new skills or trait options, but now its basically a dream, at least for existing zones. They have been trying to do this with the new zones, so every new or more “story advanced” level 80 area its a litle tougher.

About the ascended: They exagerated with armor and weapons, its a absolut pain to get that gear -.- .

Also in general i understand people dont liking the concept of downscaling, but was intended since the start, it just that the implemantation wasnt optimal and still isnt.

“WTF I’m full ascended level 80 and I’m downscaled to 11 and I pretty much only do the same damage as a level 11?!”

HOW CAN THIS BEEEEEEE

Randulf.7614:

Is it actually true that downscaled toons are worse than intended level, or is it hyperbole?
I have ’t had much chance to look into it

https://whyigame.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/gw2-i-think-downscaling-is-borked/

I kill a bunch of boar with the level 20.

Yes, the words are very small, so let me summarize:

Cyclone Axe (~80 damage)
Chop (~165-170 damage, critting for 210-250)
Double Chop (~149-163 damage, critting for 229-259)
Triple Chop (~145-149 damage on the first two strikes, 324-334 on the last strike, critting for 469-540 damage on the last strike.)
Boar hits me for 70-77 damage each direct attack, more or less, and healing signet pulses away for 32 healing.

80downscaled

I swap over to the level 80 and do the same thing.

Cyclone Axe (~64-69 damage, critting for 98-119)
Chop (~112-145 damage, critting for 171-245)
Double Chop (~104-129 damage, critting for 168-257)
Triple Chop (~104-129 on the first two strikes, 235-286 on the last strike, critting for 188-233 on the first two strikes, and didn’t manage to crit on the last strike during my test)
Boar hits me for 82-89 damage each direct attack, and healing signet still pulses away for 32 healing.

The boar’s bleeds was a constant 32 in both cases (makes sense, since armor doesn’t affect conditions), and the level 80 had a trait that had a chance of applying a bleed on a critical (which did 28-40 damage.)

I dunno… but it SURE SEEMS TO ME like the level 20 is doing more damage than my downscaled level 80. I kill the same boars in less hits on the lowbie than it takes the level 80 to finish off his.

the scaling on crit damage and crit chance really hurts. 33 →11? 185% →165%? I might as well just go full soldier gear for any time i expect to be scaled.

That said, it still doesn’t feel difficult.

Downscaling is a great concept, keeps content relevant(ish) and prevents higher players from ruining lower players’ experience (whether by accident or griefing).

But there’s a point where common sense has to step in.
Let me start with a quote from DevilLordLaser.8619 on another thread.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

I would like to know where the attitude keeps coming from in all these forum threads I read when I have spare time and forget that this place is bad for my health.

‘The attitude’, of course, is that this game should be teeth-grinding, cheek-clenching, blood-curdling, utterly-impossible-without-cybernetic-enhancements, make-Souls-games-look-like-candy ultra mad hard. That missing one dodge, or failing to pull off a perfectly optimized DPS rotation, or bringing non-Berserker gear/traits, should cause you to not only die, but cause your character to delete itself, your game to uninstall itself, your computer to brick itself, and your house to burn down.

Nobody wants to play that game. That’s not what Guild Wars is. Could the game as a whole use some more interesting enemies? Sure. Do those enemies need to be three times stronger than any PC whilst also attacking in groups of 10+? No, stop that. Sure, one or two Challenge Zones or what-have-you, a’la the original game, which push organized player parties a lot harder than the base open-world content would be appreciated. Everybody deserves a slice of the pie, and realistically things like dungeons should be a whole lot more difficult than they are.

The entire game, however, does not need to be an exercise in frustration. This is not Dwarf Fortress. Knock it off.

They say “We want a challenge”
Okay fair enough, no one likes being limited to one tiny area to have fun in.
But stop and think for a second. You’ve geared yourself up as powerfully as possible and then complain that makes content (in starter zones even) too easy.

If you want that kind of challenge go solo Arah.
Oh wait, some of you already have.
How in the world can you expect basic open world zones to provide the same kind of challenge??
That’s not fun to a lot of people, its mindless tedium or hair pulling frustration.
And that’s not why we all play.
We play for fun (just like you, we just have a different view of “fun”)

So what if you could one-shot a trash mob with a burst skill?
Whoop-de-doo.

I swear, watching anet try to balance things has always been facepalm worthy; it’s like watching someone try to adjust the positioning on a couch. 4 inches this way, too far, 4 inches back, too far, 4 inches again, too far.
Never stopping to wonder if maybe smaller adjustments might be where the balance waits?
(ignoring the fact it’s actually impossible here, you can’t make the hardcore min/maxers, and the average gamer, and the struggling gamer all happy when what they want is so drastically different.)

As I’ve said since launch, when the topic first came up, downscaling is great, nay, fantastic. But it shouldn’t cripple me.

Also, see this post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-I-am-not-okay-with-this/5241477

Randulf.7614:

Is it actually true that downscaled toons are worse than intended level, or is it hyperbole?
I have ’t had much chance to look into it

Yes, There is a whole thread with people comparing their full exotic/ascended toons at 80 downscaled next to natural level 20s, 30s, 50s,etc. Every single time we come out weaker and hit weaker.

I’ve attached my mesmer. On the right is my full exotic/ascended mesmer and on the left is my level 21 in level 20 greens. 28% more power on the low level toon. You might point out the other stats are higher on my 80 but the fact remains that my level 21 in greens hits harder than my level 80 in full ascended/exotic gear.

The problem seem only limited to the power and armor.

You mean the most important stat in the game? Yeah, my level 21 in greens HITS HARDER than my fully geared level 80. Whether or not it is “limited to the power and armor” that is still a huge deal.

Dinks.2478:

You mean the most important stat in the game? Yeah, my level 21 in greens HITS HARDER than my fully geared level 80. Whether or not it is “limited to the power and armor” that is still a huge deal.

I didn’t said it wasn’t a big deal. I’m just saying that whatever they kitten up, it seem limited to power and armor.

ScribeTheMad.7614:

As I’ve said since launch, when the topic first came up, downscaling is great, nay, fantastic. But it shouldn’t cripple me.

What you wrote is great and all, but it’s not the only argument for the changes. Even though the scaling is heavier than before, many people still feel like this is not “crippling” us. Downscaling doesn’t remove abilities or traits, it only scales their power. The two primary design concerns behind downscaling are:

1) Not trivializing content for higher levels (to some extent), which, for example, is shown as an issue by the Fire Elemental dying in literally 10 seconds.

2) Not restricting lower-level players from enjoying the game because even one or two people are one-shotting area mobs, preventing any participation. Sometimes this is unavoidable, like Yaks in WVW where they take maybe five hits to kill, so most people never see WXP pop up, but it’s also prevalent in starting zones.

I still completely plow through mobs on all of my 80’s (primarily my Guardian, Engineer, or Necromancer) in whatever zone I go to. In some regards, I don’t even know if it has gone far enough. Mobs are still incredibly easy to kill. I really don’t think it’s fair to say it is crippling, but it is an opinion after all so if you think it is crippling then it’s possibly crippling to you.

I’m ok with it, maybe more more level 80s will start playing in Orr, FS and Maguuma Wastes. I always though it was so dumb when the champ train in QD had more level 80s than Cursed Shore.

FLiP.7680:

I’m ok with it, maybe more more level 80s will start playing in Orr, FS and Maguuma Wastes. I always though it was so dumb when the champ train in QD had more level 80s than Cursed Shore.

That is because all of those other zones use to have more people but were nerfed. Queensdale had a lot of people when it was more rewarding. Now the place to be in Silverwastes because it is the most rewarding.

This isn’t an issue of level 80s being downscaled, its an issue of fully geared level 80s being downscaled lower than low level toons in green gear. It is the opposite of rewarding. You actually grow weaker as you level. Half of the joy of leveling is becoming more powerful.

I really don’t understand the people that say this makes lower level content too difficult. It’s like, Silverwastes, yea no that’s an OK difficulty, it’s level 80, the mobs are hard, but no one complains it is too hard.

They change down-scaling to essentially make it so that playing at a down-scaled level is actually like being that level and suddenly it’s the end of the world, the content is too hard, it’s like being crippled.

Like seriously? It literally took the downscaled content from facerolleasy, to just regular easy.

I wish people would get over this idea that because you are level 80 in max gear that you should somehow be a god walking around the lower level zones. Where monsters melt just from looking at you. If you want that, go play a game that doesn’t down-scale. You can AoE 1-shot all the grey mobs you want then.

It is of course worth pointing out that even if power and armor scales badly, a lvl 80 character does have access to traits and such, and thus are much more powerful naturally even at lower stats, than a natural lvl 21.