Thoughts on recent silent nerf
I really don’t understand the people that say this makes lower level content too difficult. It’s like, Silverwastes, yea no that’s an OK difficulty, it’s level 80, the mobs are hard, but no one complains it is too hard.
They change down-scaling to essentially make it so that playing at a down-scaled level is actually like being that level and suddenly it’s the end of the world, the content is too hard, it’s like being crippled.
Like seriously? It literally took the downscaled content from facerolleasy, to just regular easy.
I wish people would get over this idea that because you are level 80 in max gear that you should somehow be a god walking around the lower level zones. Where monsters melt just from looking at you. If you want that, go play a game that doesn’t down-scale. You can AoE 1-shot all the grey mobs you want then.
Except nobody is asking to be gods, we’re asking to be more powerful than low level toons in green gear. You can ignore that fact for your own convenience all you want but it won’t change it. As it stands my level 21 mesmer in level 20 green gear does more than my full level 80 full exotic full meta build mesmer. Sorry, that is bogus and it needs to be fixed.
If you’re struggling while being downscaled, then you’re not very good at the game. I barely notice a difference. As someone mentioned, you still get all your traits and (possibly) all your sigil bonuses so you’re still probably stronger than that level 11 guy in Queensdale you’re so eager to be superior to.
It’s fairly obvious that most of the people complaining just want to be able to one shot things in lowbie zones and expend zero effort for loot and rewards like it was before the patch. Maybe you should spend that energy complaining about something that should have been this way since launch towards adjusting instead.
I cannot fathom the thought process that allows people to go “Oh, low level toons are stronger than level 80s. Better praise anet and ignore the issue” Seriously, Go make a level 20 and then bring your level 80 to a 20 zone. Your level 20 will kill things faster, traits don’t matter at low levels.
I cannot fathom the thought process that allows people to go “Oh, low level toons are stronger than level 80s. Better praise anet and ignore the issue” Seriously, Go make a level 20 and then bring your level 80 to a 20 zone. Your level 20 will kill things faster, traits don’t matter at low levels.
But.. they aren’t stronger.
Raw attribute points is rather irrelevant. Me running around with a Greatsword Mesmer getting Might every single auto-attack makes me rather powerful compared to a lvl 21 Greatsword Mesmer without the “free” might applications for example.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Sorry, I compared my two mesmers hitting the same mob and no, the 21 is hitting harder.
Your post its cool, but out of context:
First: You are facing the content you alredy have in the open world (witch its heaven compared to dungeons – even if i think dungeons are easy, the difference its that big).
Second: A good implementation of downscaling make you have:
- The equivalent of the better gear for that level (tier of gear and level of it).
- All the skill slots, elite slots, class mechanics skills, available for your level ina n area witch level not necesaryly have them.
- All the traits buffs at your disposition (even if not all work perfectly since the stats are for lower levels).
- All the flexibility of skills and traits to adapt.
The end result its that you are playing content that its easier than level 80 open world areas, been buffed comparativly to the best available at the area level, later situation that most low levels never have when leveling.
Downscaling isnt making the game tougher than it is, not even as it was when you leveled up, only nearly as your first experience.
As i said at the start, your whole post explains why you could kill a not hardcore MMO if you put hardcore content in the open world, but its irrelevant to the downscaling context.
Sorry, I compared my two mesmers hitting the same mob and no, the 21 is hitting harder.
Even with the traits that give Might on every hit?
What about traits that increase the damage (and add conditions) to the Shatter and Illusion skills?
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Sorry, I compared my two mesmers hitting the same mob and no, the 21 is hitting harder.
Even with the traits that give Might on every hit?
What about traits that increase the damage (and add conditions) to the Shatter and Illusion skills?
Why would I care about might in a level 20 zone? I am still killing things in 3-4 hits. Might doesn’t build up fast enough to matter.
However my level 20 is killing them in 2-3 hits. Which makes my level 80 and my gear moot.
What’s the point of leveling if you are matched with lowest common denominator?
Because you have to take traits into consideration when you downscale?
If you had a lvl 80 with the exact same attributes as a lvl 21, the lvl 80 would be many times stronger than the lvl 21.
With slightly lower attributes however they are rather equal.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
They never should be equal. I wasted my time for leveling to be stronger than I was at lvl 20. 80s don’t have to be OP, but making them equal is illogical.
Still I believe it’s bug. They never came here and told us it’s intended.
Sorry, I compared my two mesmers hitting the same mob and no, the 21 is hitting harder.
Even with the traits that give Might on every hit?
What about traits that increase the damage (and add conditions) to the Shatter and Illusion skills?Why would I care about might in a level 20 zone? I am still killing things in 3-4 hits. Might doesn’t build up fast enough to matter.
However my level 20 is killing them in 2-3 hits. Which makes my level 80 and my gear moot.
If everything dies in a few hits regardless of your level, what is the problem with your 80 being numerically a teensy bit weaker than your 21? What exactly are you complaining about? Your level 80 and your gear aren’t moot – you have access to way more content with them than with your 21.
What’s the point of leveling if you are matched with lowest common denominator?
They never should be equal. I wasted my time for leveling to be stronger than I was at lvl 20. 80s don’t have to be OP, but making them equal is illogical.
Still I believe it’s bug. They never came here and told us it’s intended.
So now you’re arguing against downscaling in its entirety. Of course the whole point is to make characters more or less equal, otherwise the whole thing wouldn’t make a lick of sense.
Also, no, they didn’t. They don’t come here for every change and say that it’s intended, and they shouldn’t have to. What they should do more often is come here and tell us when something isn’t intended.
Oh, and just as I told Krall: No, you didn’t waste your time. You have access to way more content with level 80. If you don’t like being downscaled, go there.
No I don’t. I’m arguing against overtweaked downscaling which we have now.
They don’t come here for every change and say that it’s intended, and they shouldn’t have to. What they should do more often is come here and tell us when something isn’t intended.
I don’t know if you are aware, but sometimes anet doesnt know if changes are intended. For 3 months they havent decided if Lupicus auto hitting in melee is intended change. This is why I can’t trust them. There should be a confirmation for current downscaling level – is it intended or overlooked bug.
(edited by krzygum.4028)
I’ve been waiting for low level content to become challenging again for 3 years!
I always love this posts. Are you people really level up to 80, gear yourself up in
exotic or even ascended, just to go then directly to Queensdale to have a greater
challenge then you had there as when you were level 1-15 ?Oh my gawd .. i leveled up to 80 .. and now i am NOT weaker than i was at
level 1 .. that can’t be right .. the whole reason for leveling is to get weaker
and weaker. If i’m 80 i expect to need a full party of five to kill a skelk in
Queensdale .. and not oneshot it like those newbies.Really .. go kill some Terragriffons if you want more challenge.
Yeah I mean why go anywhere else when you can boil down entire Tyria to one map and stay there and grind and grin and grind until you’re drooling mess.
No, I want challenge wherever I go because that’s what makes game interesting to me. If you want to feel overpowered, claim your dominance over others by having slightly larger numbers and are looking for something to keep your kitten upright, you certainly have enough mmos out there that do that. Big titles too, can’t miss em!
If Anet says that entire world is endgame then I well expect it to feel like endgame map.
I’m enjoying the downscaling change. I don’t like being able to steam roll content, pretty much ever. It also makes it a better experience for actual newbies/lowbies.
No I don’t. I’m arguing against overtweaked downscaling which we have now.
They don’t come here for every change and say that it’s intended, and they shouldn’t have to. What they should do more often is come here and tell us when something isn’t intended.
I don’t know if you are aware, but sometimes anet doesnt know if changes are intended. For 3 months they havent decided if Lupicus auto hitting in melee is intended change. This is why I can’t trust them. There should be a confirmation for current downscaling level – is it intended or overlooked bug.
Again: What do you think is the point of downscaling? You still haven’t answered that question, and I think it’s integral to this discussion. What do you think ANet intended with that system if not for characters in a certain area to be at about the same level? Note: “About” because it’s actually possible, though hard, for a levelling character to be below the current level ceiling.
And Lupicus: Maybe they haven’t decided whether they want to keep this bug that isn’t in any of the patch notes and thus truly unintended. This change to the scaling, however, is intended – it’s in the patch notes and as you can see here it’s not something they consider broken – else it would be on the list.
I really don’t understand the people that say this makes lower level content too difficult. It’s like, Silverwastes, yea no that’s an OK difficulty, it’s level 80, the mobs are hard, but no one complains it is too hard.
They change down-scaling to essentially make it so that playing at a down-scaled level is actually like being that level and suddenly it’s the end of the world, the content is too hard, it’s like being crippled.
Like seriously? It literally took the downscaled content from facerolleasy, to just regular easy.
I wish people would get over this idea that because you are level 80 in max gear that you should somehow be a god walking around the lower level zones. Where monsters melt just from looking at you. If you want that, go play a game that doesn’t down-scale. You can AoE 1-shot all the grey mobs you want then.
Except nobody is asking to be gods, we’re asking to be more powerful than low level toons in green gear. You can ignore that fact for your own convenience all you want but it won’t change it. As it stands my level 21 mesmer in level 20 green gear does more than my full level 80 full exotic full meta build mesmer. Sorry, that is bogus and it needs to be fixed.
Except you have access to far more powerful traits and skills….
And in general you are likely a far better player who knows how to utilize proper skill rotation, combos, positioning, kiting, etc.
But if you want to completely focus on one aspect and compare the attack of a 21 mesmer vs an 80 mesmer, then sure, I guess then the level 21 mesmer is just so much better than your fully geared 80 mesmer… (even though your DPS will be far greater simply because of the traits and skills that have been unlocked)
Your whole argument boils down to: “Yea it’s easy, but I don’t like the fact that a low level character in level appropriate gear can auto-attack for more than I can because I’m a level 80 in the best gear and I need to feel like I am.”
Easy is easy. Who cares if it’s slightly easier for lower level characters. That’s the WHOLE point….
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.
I really don’t understand the people that say this makes lower level content too difficult. It’s like, Silverwastes, yea no that’s an OK difficulty, it’s level 80, the mobs are hard, but no one complains it is too hard.
They change down-scaling to essentially make it so that playing at a down-scaled level is actually like being that level and suddenly it’s the end of the world, the content is too hard, it’s like being crippled.
Like seriously? It literally took the downscaled content from facerolleasy, to just regular easy.
I wish people would get over this idea that because you are level 80 in max gear that you should somehow be a god walking around the lower level zones. Where monsters melt just from looking at you. If you want that, go play a game that doesn’t down-scale. You can AoE 1-shot all the grey mobs you want then.
Except nobody is asking to be gods, we’re asking to be more powerful than low level toons in green gear. You can ignore that fact for your own convenience all you want but it won’t change it. As it stands my level 21 mesmer in level 20 green gear does more than my full level 80 full exotic full meta build mesmer. Sorry, that is bogus and it needs to be fixed.
Except you have access to far more powerful traits and skills….
And in general you are likely a far better player who knows how to utilize proper skill rotation, combos, positioning, kiting, etc.
But if you want to completely focus on one aspect and compare the attack of a 21 mesmer vs an 80 mesmer, then sure, I guess then the level 21 mesmer is just so much better than your fully geared 80 mesmer… (even though your DPS will be far greater simply because of the traits and skills that have been unlocked)
Your whole argument boils down to: “Yea it’s easy, but I don’t like the fact that a low level character in level appropriate gear can auto-attack for more than I can because I’m a level 80 in the best gear and I need to feel like I am.”
Easy is easy. Who cares if it’s slightly easier for lower level characters. That’s the WHOLE point….
Those “powerful” traits are meaningless if they have underpowered base stat to scale from.
And I feel like your argument is “you are higher lvl, you play longer, you must be better/stronger – lets punish you for this”. This is exactly why some ppl are upset. We invested in our characters and now we are made in pair with lowbies – no matter if those are alts or new players. We put our time to lvl, to gear and explore this game. It is fully expected that we should be more powerful, not overpowered but stil more powerfull. Today the game punishes us for leveling our characters. Lol.
(edited by krzygum.4028)
I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.
I really don’t understand the people that say this makes lower level content too difficult. It’s like, Silverwastes, yea no that’s an OK difficulty, it’s level 80, the mobs are hard, but no one complains it is too hard.
They change down-scaling to essentially make it so that playing at a down-scaled level is actually like being that level and suddenly it’s the end of the world, the content is too hard, it’s like being crippled.
Like seriously? It literally took the downscaled content from facerolleasy, to just regular easy.
I wish people would get over this idea that because you are level 80 in max gear that you should somehow be a god walking around the lower level zones. Where monsters melt just from looking at you. If you want that, go play a game that doesn’t down-scale. You can AoE 1-shot all the grey mobs you want then.
Except nobody is asking to be gods, we’re asking to be more powerful than low level toons in green gear. You can ignore that fact for your own convenience all you want but it won’t change it. As it stands my level 21 mesmer in level 20 green gear does more than my full level 80 full exotic full meta build mesmer. Sorry, that is bogus and it needs to be fixed.
Except you have access to far more powerful traits and skills….
And in general you are likely a far better player who knows how to utilize proper skill rotation, combos, positioning, kiting, etc.
But if you want to completely focus on one aspect and compare the attack of a 21 mesmer vs an 80 mesmer, then sure, I guess then the level 21 mesmer is just so much better than your fully geared 80 mesmer… (even though your DPS will be far greater simply because of the traits and skills that have been unlocked)
Your whole argument boils down to: “Yea it’s easy, but I don’t like the fact that a low level character in level appropriate gear can auto-attack for more than I can because I’m a level 80 in the best gear and I need to feel like I am.”
Easy is easy. Who cares if it’s slightly easier for lower level characters. That’s the WHOLE point….
Those “powerful” traits are meaningless if they have underpowered base stat to scale from.
And I feel like your argument is “you are higher lvl, you play longer, you must be better/stronger – lets punish you for this”. This is exactly why some ppl are upset. We invested in our characters and now we are made in pair with lowbies – no matter if those are alts or new players. We put our time to lvl, to gear and explore this game. It is fully expected that we should be more powerful, not overpowered but stil more powerfull. Today the game punishes us for leveling our characters. Lol.
The fact that you need to feel elite in comparison to low level toons as opposed to just appreciating the content you unlock by leveling is really kind of sad.
I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.
I really don’t understand the people that say this makes lower level content too difficult. It’s like, Silverwastes, yea no that’s an OK difficulty, it’s level 80, the mobs are hard, but no one complains it is too hard.
They change down-scaling to essentially make it so that playing at a down-scaled level is actually like being that level and suddenly it’s the end of the world, the content is too hard, it’s like being crippled.
Like seriously? It literally took the downscaled content from facerolleasy, to just regular easy.
I wish people would get over this idea that because you are level 80 in max gear that you should somehow be a god walking around the lower level zones. Where monsters melt just from looking at you. If you want that, go play a game that doesn’t down-scale. You can AoE 1-shot all the grey mobs you want then.
Except nobody is asking to be gods, we’re asking to be more powerful than low level toons in green gear. You can ignore that fact for your own convenience all you want but it won’t change it. As it stands my level 21 mesmer in level 20 green gear does more than my full level 80 full exotic full meta build mesmer. Sorry, that is bogus and it needs to be fixed.
Except you have access to far more powerful traits and skills….
And in general you are likely a far better player who knows how to utilize proper skill rotation, combos, positioning, kiting, etc.
But if you want to completely focus on one aspect and compare the attack of a 21 mesmer vs an 80 mesmer, then sure, I guess then the level 21 mesmer is just so much better than your fully geared 80 mesmer… (even though your DPS will be far greater simply because of the traits and skills that have been unlocked)
Your whole argument boils down to: “Yea it’s easy, but I don’t like the fact that a low level character in level appropriate gear can auto-attack for more than I can because I’m a level 80 in the best gear and I need to feel like I am.”
Easy is easy. Who cares if it’s slightly easier for lower level characters. That’s the WHOLE point….
Those “powerful” traits are meaningless if they have underpowered base stat to scale from.
And I feel like your argument is “you are higher lvl, you play longer, you must be better/stronger – lets punish you for this”. This is exactly why some ppl are upset. We invested in our characters and now we are made in pair with lowbies – no matter if those are alts or new players. We put our time to lvl, to gear and explore this game. It is fully expected that we should be more powerful, not overpowered but stil more powerfull. Today the game punishes us for leveling our characters. Lol.
The fact that you need to feel elite in comparison to low level toons as opposed to just appreciating the content you unlock by leveling is really kind of sad.
Please show me where am I expressing my urge to feel elite. I am a total noob. Today the game punishes me for playing it because if I was a lowbie I would be stronger in the area I like to play in. This is ridiculous.
Lvl 20 should never be equal or stronger than lvl 80. I think this system is bugged and I’m waiting for confirmation from arena net if it is intended or is it bugged and when will be fixed.
I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.
You keep evading the question. Why do you think downscaling was implemented? What was the intention in your opinion? Or rather: Why do you think characters shouldn’t be equal at the regional level ceiling? You feel that it’s necessary for downscaled characters to be more powerful, but what would be the point of downscaling if that were the case?
So because your gear is “pointless” in downscaled areas, you want a refund on them – despite the fact that it’s still at its full power everywhere else. Okay.
I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.
You keep evading the question. Why do you think downscaling was implemented? What was the intention in your opinion? Or rather: Why do you think characters shouldn’t be equal at the regional level ceiling? You feel that it’s necessary for downscaled characters to be more powerful, but what would be the point of downscaling if that were the case?
So because your gear is “pointless” in downscaled areas, you want a refund on them – despite the fact that it’s still at its full power everywhere else. Okay.
There is more <80 areas than lvl 80 areas in this game. So I am punished more than I’m rewarded. That’s lol indeed.
The rest of the questions I’ve already answered. It’s pointless to run in circles with arguments when we won’t find a common ground. You believe in equality I don’t. Have a nice, equal day.
I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.
You keep evading the question. Why do you think downscaling was implemented? What was the intention in your opinion? Or rather: Why do you think characters shouldn’t be equal at the regional level ceiling? You feel that it’s necessary for downscaled characters to be more powerful, but what would be the point of downscaling if that were the case?
So because your gear is “pointless” in downscaled areas, you want a refund on them – despite the fact that it’s still at its full power everywhere else. Okay.
There is more <80 areas than lvl 80 areas in this game. So I am punished more than I’m rewarded. That’s lol indeed.
And again you’ve evaded the question. What would be the point of downscaling if it wasn’t to make characters equal?
I knew I should’ve added that with HoT coming out, you’ll have more areas to play in, but eh, whatever. If you can’t figure out how wrong your aforementioned statement was, that’s your problem.
Oh, one last thing: Have you actually tried playing downscaled without having a constant eye on the numbers? Try it. You’ll notice that you’re no slower at dispatching mobs as a lower level character is.
Edit:
The rest of the questions I’ve already answered. It’s pointless to run in circles with arguments when we won’t find a common ground. You believe in equality I don’t. Have a nice, equal day.
You think equality somehow makes you weaker. There’s a difference.
I can accept or deny why anet put downscaling in this game. It doesn’t matter what I think about this. Or you. However when a change is made I can have an opinion if it is needed. I think the change to downscaling was needed for a long time however my opinion is it was overdone, it scales down too much and makes me question the goal of leveling. If a random lvl 20 character is equal or stronger than my lvl 80 toon with full ascended gear I should get a refund for all purchases I made for this character because they are pointless now in downscaled areas.
You keep evading the question. Why do you think downscaling was implemented? What was the intention in your opinion? Or rather: Why do you think characters shouldn’t be equal at the regional level ceiling? You feel that it’s necessary for downscaled characters to be more powerful, but what would be the point of downscaling if that were the case?
So because your gear is “pointless” in downscaled areas, you want a refund on them – despite the fact that it’s still at its full power everywhere else. Okay.
There is more <80 areas than lvl 80 areas in this game. So I am punished more than I’m rewarded. That’s lol indeed.
And again you’ve evaded the question. What would be the point of downscaling if it wasn’t to make characters equal?
I knew I should’ve added that with HoT coming out, you’ll have more areas to play in, but eh, whatever. If you can’t figure out how wrong your aforementioned statement was, that’s your problem.
Oh, one last thing: Have you actually tried playing downscaled without having a constant eye on the numbers? Try it. You’ll notice that you’re no slower at dispatching mobs as a lower level character is.
Edit:
The rest of the questions I’ve already answered. It’s pointless to run in circles with arguments when we won’t find a common ground. You believe in equality I don’t. Have a nice, equal day.
You think equality somehow makes you weaker. There’s a difference.
Neither of us is right or wrong. You can’t mathematically prove opinions, only facts. And our opinions differ, you stated your arguments, I stated mine, there’s no point in arguing.
The only unsolved case is if this overtweaked change was intended. Anet will prove which one of us was right.
And equality is bad. Always. Rewards should be distributed by the level of effort put into your actions, therefore lvl 80 player should be more powerful when downscaled than genuine lvl 20 for example. It never should be overpowered, simply stronger. If everyone is equally the same, there is no reason to put any effort in playing. If you want to see why equality in this game is bad, come check world bosses or SW or pvp leachers. Whenever an event/match is won, those who tagged and akitten for the rest of the time are rewarded equally to those who put effort in winning. This is bad. In every case.
Now I’m going to eat my pizza. Have fun in whatever you are doing.
(edited by krzygum.4028)
Yeah, Might as well just quit. A game that makes you weaker as you level is hilariously backwards.
The rest of the questions I’ve already answered. It’s pointless to run in circles with arguments when we won’t find a common ground. You believe in equality I don’t. Have a nice, equal day.
You are really only upset because actual low level characters have an advantage against content for their own level and you don’t. You don’t need that advantage. You are able to clear all of the content with ease anyway.
And no, the traits are not useless because you have lower base stats. If you have a trait that procs an additional condition stack, or removes a condition, or does additional % damage for a weapon use, or procs an ability on crit, etc. It’s still an increase in DPS. And an increase that lowbie characters do not have access to.
For example, whatever DPS numbers a 21 Guardian is putting out based on his stats, I can already add like 15%+ damage onto it if I have traits for a) +% scepter/GS damage b) +% damage under Aegis effect and c) +% damage if target is burning.
Not to mention access to my Wrath shout elite that gives me 10s of fury and attack speed.
How the heck can you not see that these alone put you well above a lowbie character in terms of DPS and survivability.
Like for real. Use your brain.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
This complaint reminds me of seeing my nephew complain that he only got one thing from his grandfather while his brother got four. He got a five dollar bill, his brother got four ones.
This complaint reminds me of seeing my nephew complain that he only got one thing from his grandfather while his brother got four. He got a five dollar bill, his brother got four ones.
No, its more like you work hard all day and get 4 dollars. But your brother sat on his kitten and got a five. So you’re like “Well this is bogus, I spent a lot of time earning my money and he gets more?”
AKA, level 80s are being punished for their effort and time invested in leveling and gearing up. Don’t try your false equivalency crap.
This complaint reminds me of seeing my nephew complain that he only got one thing from his grandfather while his brother got four. He got a five dollar bill, his brother got four ones.
No, its more like you work hard all day and get 4 dollars. But your brother sat on his kitten and got a five. So you’re like “Well this is bogus, I spent a lot of time earning my money and he gets more?”
AKA, level 80s are being punished for their effort and time invested in leveling and gearing up. Don’t try your false equivalency crap.
This is a stupid analogy. The point of leveling is to open up tactical options and new playable content. It’s not so you can break the game and feel elite around lowbies.
Let me guess, you’re an ill-informed conservative.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
I’ve seen a number of numeric examples of this issue across half a dozen threads and have yet to see anything that is horrifically out of whack in the numbers. So you are doing slightly less damage to a foe than a lower level in a downscaled zone….if you are seriously in jeopardy of dying in any of these scenarios, I doubt the real issue is the downscalling changes.
I get the OP posted he has some sort of disability that exacerbates the issue, but that part of the issue is really NOT part of the downscalling issue. Note that I’m not trying to be insensitive to or dismissive of the OPs condition, but the general difficulty of the game we are talking about is not that high to begin with.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
This complaint reminds me of seeing my nephew complain that he only got one thing from his grandfather while his brother got four. He got a five dollar bill, his brother got four ones.
No, its more like you work hard all day and get 4 dollars. But your brother sat on his kitten and got a five. So you’re like “Well this is bogus, I spent a lot of time earning my money and he gets more?”
AKA, level 80s are being punished for their effort and time invested in leveling and gearing up. Don’t try your false equivalency crap.
Nope.
Still have more skills, traits, etc at level 80. Taking a myopic view by looking at one portion of what contributes to a character’s performance means missing the big picture. “He got slightly higher numbers,” in this one aspect of character performance, while discounting or ignoring the larger picture pretty much matches my analogy.
Too bad they nerfed downscaling and buffed world bosses by 100% at basically the same time. For example, Shadow Behemoth is STILL EASY but he takes kittenING FOREVER.
It really feels like almost no thought went into some of these changes. Level 80s have a horrible crit chance downscaled now, so even if the world bosses were actually crittable, they would still take way too long. All these nerfs work together to make the experience TEDIOUS, not CHALLENGING. There is a huge difference between the 2.
So what’s the point with excessive downscaling in the first place?
Actually the point of leveling is to progress and become more powerful. I certainly didn’t level to become weaker.
My analogy is perfect. You put in more work and time and the end result is a lesser reward. If I wanted my time to be kitten on by less deserving people I’d avoid this game and go back to work.
Power is the singular important stat in anything pre-80 and you get 28% less if you’re a downscaled level 80.
So what’s the point with excessive downscaling in the first place?
The point is that once you reach 80 and start going back to starter zones to complete the map, the content is so easy it gets boring. As in “Literally can’t die” level of easy. Downscaling ’s intent was to make content more challenging to a higher level player coming back to starter zones. However, the original model failed to take into account exactly how much difference there was in an 80 being fully geared/traited/skilled in a zone balanced around a level 20 in a mix of white/blue gear. So they tweaked the numbers a bit more to put everyone a little closer to on par, with 80s still having the advantage of more attributes/traits/skills!
Skif F Galco (War) | Bas Flaith (Thf) | Rawr Doomshot (Rng) | Cheshire Glamourclaw (Mes)
They didn’t tweak numbers “a bit more”. They went so far that unless you’re on lvl 80 map your level and gear don’t matter.
They didn’t tweak numbers “a bit more”. They went so far that unless you’re on lvl 80 map your level and gear don’t matter.
That’s patently untrue. Against a level 20 thief using pure power, myself using Carrion, I’ll have more power than them unless they’re twinked to the gills. I’ll also have more condition damage, more health, and deal more damage from my own might stacking off of traits. I’ll stay in stealth longer, and drop into it easier. My cooldowns are shorter, my initiative higher, and I can swap skills to match the EXACT situation I’m in with little to no issues.
Yes, if they’re twinked to the heavens in all crafted masterwork gear, their auto-attacks white damage is higher than mine, but that’s ONE stat. I have more.
Skif F Galco (War) | Bas Flaith (Thf) | Rawr Doomshot (Rng) | Cheshire Glamourclaw (Mes)
The only stat that matters is power. If power is nerfed, everything else is not important.
They didn’t tweak numbers “a bit more”. They went so far that unless you’re on lvl 80 map your level and gear don’t matter.
That’s patently untrue. Against a level 20 thief using pure power, myself using Carrion, I’ll have more power than them unless they’re twinked to the gills. I’ll also have more condition damage, more health, and deal more damage from my own might stacking off of traits. I’ll stay in stealth longer, and drop into it easier. My cooldowns are shorter, my initiative higher, and I can swap skills to match the EXACT situation I’m in with little to no issues.
Yes, if they’re twinked to the heavens in all crafted masterwork gear, their auto-attacks white damage is higher than mine, but that’s ONE stat. I have more.
So basically, “Yes, if they spend 10 silver to get green gear their attacks will be higher than mine in my full exotic/ascend gear that costs me anywhere from 15g to 500g.”
Seems legit. Power is life pre-80. Power is all that matters, all of those other stats are pointless.
Yeah, Might as well just quit. A game that makes you weaker as you level is hilariously backwards.
Even if you can see the difference when using a stop watch (and I don’t know why you’d care), the idea is to make the zones relevant.
Before they weren’t. I was occasionally one shotting creatures in low level zones. New players had no chance at all to actually do the events they were in, because things would die before they could even hit them.
You may think that’s okay, I don’t.
If the low level zones are too hard for you, stay in the high level zones. I’m fine with it the way it is.
It is neither fair nor right than a low-level character in lower-tier gear should have more of ANYTHING than a downscaled high-level character in higher-tier gear. Regardless of the availability of traits, skills or sigils.
Nobody, or nearly nobody arguing against this nerf is arguing against downscaling in general. But it is obviously not done right, and it is not fair to high-level characters. At least the way it is currently. “LOL UR BAD” is not really a valid response here.
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
I don’t really agree with this change. I do think the downscaling needed some work, but they overdid it. A full ascended level 80 should always have better stats than a lowbie when down-leveled. They should also kill things faster than a lowbie. You’re supposed to feel some sense of accomplishment and progression when you achieve these things, this severe downscaling ruins that feeling.
snip _They should also kill things faster than a lowbie. _snip
The point I was trying make is that you DO kill things faster than a lowbie; even a lowbie in twinked gear. You can also handle more of them at a time, higher level groups of them, and can solo events the twink can’t. The only area you’re not stronger is white damage on the auto attacks.
In return, more of the game is actually relevant and can be fun. It’s still not hard, but I’m also not going AFK in the middle of zones in a spawn area, coming back to 12 things attacking me, and I’m literally not taking enough damage to die.
Skif F Galco (War) | Bas Flaith (Thf) | Rawr Doomshot (Rng) | Cheshire Glamourclaw (Mes)
I haven’t even paid much attention to this. It doesn’t affect me personally because of how I play, but it will help low level characters do their PvE dalies instead of a zerg of level 80s burning down all the events in seconds. IMO the better way to fix it would have been to make “Shiverpeaks Event Completer, Maguuma Event Completer” etc.
Neither of us is right or wrong. You can’t mathematically prove opinions, only facts. And our opinions differ, you stated your arguments, I stated mine, there’s no point in arguing.
The only unsolved case is if this overtweaked change was intended. Anet will prove which one of us was right.
And equality is bad. Always. Rewards should be distributed by the level of effort put into your actions, therefore lvl 80 player should be more powerful when downscaled than genuine lvl 20 for example. It never should be overpowered, simply stronger. If everyone is equally the same, there is no reason to put any effort in playing. If you want to see why equality in this game is bad, come check world bosses or SW or pvp leachers. Whenever an event/match is won, those who tagged and akitten for the rest of the time are rewarded equally to those who put effort in winning. This is bad. In every case.
Now I’m going to eat my pizza. Have fun in whatever you are doing.
Now you’re evading two questions. In your opinion, what’s the point of downscaling? And have you tried and seen whether it actually makes any real difference outside of the hero screen?
Actually, one of us is factually wrong. You even say so in the same post.
You are being rewarded for your effort. You have access to more content, more skills, more traits, more tactics, more everything. Heck, you even get more powerful loot, although a fully decked out level 80 likely has little use for the gear that drops from trash mobs. But you get more gold, and if I’m not mistaken you get more karma too.
The one thing you don’t get is to be more powerful because the whole point of downscaling is that you’re no more powerful than a decked out character of the appropriate level. Why else would they have implemented it? Why can you not fess up and answer that simple question? It’s not a difficult one.
And not everyone is “equally the same” – just switch to a map with a higher level and presto! You’re more powerful than the low level guy. The only case where you’re not is when you’re in his level range. As it should be.
And the world bosses etc? Yeah, that’s been in the game since the start. You knew that was their philosophy. Now that scaling has been buffed, you complain. If equality is so bad, you should’ve left the game a long, long time ago. Literally every other MMORPG you can get a better reward if you actually participate, because just hanging around won’t get you a tag.
Edit: Power is the only stat that matters? Yeah, right. Not if it doesn’t make a difference in kill speed, it doesn’t.
In zergs this change does nothing. I’ve only noticed it at gathering nods on the way to a world boss, where I now have to take care of agroed mobs or risk getting downed in a couple of hits (on zerker).
I figure we will not hear anything about this officially until devs have time to do their own testing/checking so that they know whether the effects are what they intended or not.
But, I really doubt they intended for newish players with their level 45 characters to double back to a 30s area wearing level 25 gear (cuz there’s no way a person would know how gear interacts with downscaling unless they are reading the forums and such) and find it harder than when they were there a few days earlier.
A lot of you are talking about the effects of the downscaling on optimal use – optimal skills/traits/builds, high player skill level and knowledge level, level 80 character or character with optimized gear, etc. But you aren’t thinking about typical use – random skills/traits non-optimally utilized, average (~by definition~) player skill/knowledge, not the best gear. Which doesn’t even address the accessibility issue, which this game is honestly kind of on the poor side of in a number of ways.
Anyway, with so many changes recently, it’s not surprising that downscaling may not be working as intended. I hope they say something clear about it soon though.
Is it actually true that downscaled toons are worse than intended level, or is it hyperbole?
I have ’t had much chance to look into it
i havent do any test
but my lv 80 can 1hit Queensdale low level wurm in the farm
while my lv2 cant
but ppl say the status is lower than a new characters
so i guess it is not just simple status downscaling, maybe some extra factor involve in that fomular
(edited by Ringsound.7806)
It wasn’t silent.
/thread