Guild Wars 2

So not sure if others feel this way, but I would love it if for the next expansion we didn’t just run in and kill the main protagonist (the elder dragons) in the first season.

During the orinal story, it took us all the way from level 1 to level 80 to finally reach the climatic battle with Zhaitan at the end (though it was a crappy battle).

Then we had all these living stories that finally led up to the first expansion. When that expansion hit, we played through the initial story and then killed Mordremoth! I was actually surprised when I killed him, thinking that there was no way he was really already dead so soon into the expansion that was themed around him.

So now we have our new story line that is building up to an encounter with Primordus and Jormag, which I can only guess will be the main protagonists for the next expansion.

I just can’t help but feel though that this is a bit backwards. I feel like all these stories we are doing now should of been at the start of the Primordus/Jormag expansion, with it ending with the defeat of the two elder dragons.

Maybe it doesn’t matter that much to others, but it really downplayed the “threat” of Mordremoth to me with it being done this way. I feel like we had an introduction to Mordremoth, and then the expansion hit and we just rushed his layer and took him down. I feel as though there was a potential larger back-and-forth struggle between Tyra and Mordremoth that was just skipped over, and I don’t want to see this happen for all the elder dragons.

Sure, Zhaitan went down in a horrible fight against glitter cannons, but up until then he was a truly threatening presence. I would of liked some more encounters with Zhaitan before taking him down, and a better final battle, but he was still a major focus for such a long time and I feel that made a difference.

The closest comparison I can think of would be Deathwing from WoW (though not really a huge fan of that expansion or game due to other various reasons). We didn’t just rush in and kill Deathwing when the expansion dropped, and he also wasn’t just some big boss in the background that we never saw. We had multiple encounters with Deathwing (most if not all just being simple cutscenes iirc) and of course the occasional open world moments where he just popped his head in and killed everyone on the map. Point being, he was a threat throughout the whole expansion until we finally faced off against him in the end.

And although it isn’t really necessary to have Jormag or Primordus occasionally swoop in and murder every player on the map, I would just like to see the Elder Dragons have more of a presence and remain a threat throughout the expansion. Something as simple as catching a glimpse of an elder dragon in a cutscene as we arrive to the aftermath of its destruction would be cool.

Anyways, just my opinions, and curious if anyone else feels the same.

I completely agree. Quite frankly, I actually to this day don’t really understand why Mordremoth was considered as such a big deal; he was largely isolated and went down extremely quickly without much of a fight. And mind you, this is a dragon that was supposedly in it for the long game; for all intents and purposes, we shouldn’t have seen his forces rally until way later considering just how quickly he went down.

This is a big stretch, but here I go.

Considering that they are introducing the idea of fighting two dragons at once, presenting us with more interesting antagonists, and dropping hints of the Elder Dragons’ roles in maintaining the balance of magic in the world, it would be no surprise to me if Anet is attempting to complete the Elder Dragons’ story as quickly as they can.

I have to wonder if ANet isn’t bored by the Dragon story line or finds it difficult to do an interesting story where humans fight an almost impersonal force of magic. There are a lot of other, much more interesting stories in the game. Palawa Joko and what happened to Elona. Cantha and its story line. Both of these would be more complex and interesting than fighting a dragon.

Coffietire.2783:

This is a big stretch, but here I go.

Considering that they are introducing the idea of fighting two dragons at once, presenting us with more interesting antagonists, and dropping hints of the Elder Dragons’ roles in maintaining the balance of magic in the world, it would be no surprise to me if Anet is attempting to complete the Elder Dragons’ story as quickly as they can.

You know, I really wouldn’t even mind this. I mean, after some time, fighting the Elder Dragons expansion after expansion, I get that it could get stale because there may not be too much they can change up from one dragon to the next. I mean, big dragon, causes damage, tons of minions, kill, rinse, repeat. But still, we’re in an expansion that hyped Mordremoth up and labeled itself as Heart of Thorns, and that guy has been dead forever now and we’re off chasing fire and ice dragons and mursaat.

But yeah, no problem at all with them pulling us away from the elder dragon hunt to focus on different protagonists, but kitten , still give the dragons the respect and screen time they deserve. lol. I mean, they might as well have labeled this expansion “Aftermath of Mordremoth”, cause that is all it has been.

I’m all in favor of killing all the dragons ASAP, so that we can move on to something else. Tyria’s been fighting these beasties for 250 of their years (give or take) and over 10 of ours (give or take); it’s about time we dealt with something that threatens us in a new way.

On the other hand, it’s been real and it’s been fun, and often really fun. So I’m up for whatever they throw at us. #Bring-it-on

How do they move the battle with a dragon to the end of an expansion? I don’t really understand that. What or where is the end of the expansion? The concluding battle is at the end of the story, or the last map included. I’d guess, then, that players dictate how fast they finish the story or the maps.

Are you suggesting it should have been released as part of the Living World stories? If so, there is already much lamentation about all expansion content not being released on the first day.

It’s probably difficult to come up with stories that include gameplay and aren’t time-gated by update releases. It would be difficult for me to do, anyway.

I think keeping some big baddies alive would be a good thing, adds to the whole constant threat thing. I don’t find safe to be fun.

Please do not start the hype train. Please do not even dare to fuel it.

When first expansion was released, the hype started from these discussions, and after release people started complaining on forums about price, bugs, features they did not like, professions overpowered in PvP, graphical glitches, WvW maps, game balance, and so on… even though the community started the hype all together.

Please, stop asking for a new expansion. If you continue on this path, you are sending marketing team messages like this: “we got money and we desire a new expansion”. Stop pushing developers in turbo-programming-mode, because we all know where this is going.

However, this is just a thought. If you do want a new expansion, keep giving them ideas and fuel for this hype train. But be warned: be careful what you wish for, because you might get only some of it, with a big price.

Since the Devs announced they were working on a new expansion long ago, I don’t think posting about it will make any difference. It’s already a done deal.

Elder Dragons seem impressive, but when you get right down to it I see no way to make these battles or the journey to them interesting. As others point out, dragons aren’t human-like. They don’t make interesting enemies. And how exactly do you fight a dragon face to face?

With Zhaitan we had lame airships taking him down. With mordremoth we fought him in dream land. Even when we do fight lesser dragons (Claw Island, Claw of Jormag, the Shatterer, Teqatl) it’s an army beating on the dragon’s toenails while cannons keep them pinned down. It’s just lame.

I think more human-like enemies would be much more interesting and with far more plausible battles that don’t require so much outside help. In other words, we can be the hero that takes these guys down. We don’t need airships, cannons, or an army with dragon-sized toenail clippers to do it!

taking the dragons fast is not a requirement for newer storylines. these creatures are supposed to wake up once in a while they could just let them sleep for a good while and focus on more pressing matters. I agree that mordremoth going down was waaay to fast and anticlimatic, and I fear the next 2 will be even worse.
if anet feels trapped in the dragon storyline just do another thing in between.

Personally I think ANet boxed themselves in somewhat with the “us vs. the multi elder dragons” themed game. One, maybe 2, elder dragons can be reasonably fought but more than that? How do you keep the story line interesting when you’re fighting something so impersonal and alien to human concerns. Why don’t the elder dragons join forces instead of letting us pick them off? Why don’t they attack directly. Just one dragon flying over the Charr area did massive damage. Why not fly over the major race’s cities and core territories to kill or corrupt and throw the governments into chaos? I think all they can do is introduce side stories unrelated to dragons such as Caduceus, Mursaat, Braham, bringing in stories that have more complexity than killing dragons. I vote they kill all the dragons off and get to something else.

And after that….

Cantha?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I have to wonder if ANet isn’t bored by the Dragon story line or finds it difficult to do an interesting story where humans fight an almost impersonal force of magic. There are a lot of other, much more interesting stories in the game. Palawa Joko and what happened to Elona. Cantha and its story line. Both of these would be more complex and interesting than fighting a dragon.

This. If ANet isn’t bored with the dragon thing, I am. There’s only so many primordial forces of nature I can stomach.

I agree to your points. Mordremoth was praised as a very huge threat and went down quiet simply. But we have to look at this event from a different perspective as well. Maybe Mordremoth himself underestimated the threat the Pact can still bring to him even after taking down most of Destiny’s Edge? Or maybe Commander and his team were lucky and happened to reach Mordremoth just in time or when he was vulnerable?
I am a guy who likes to roleplay and was roleplaying in my past a lot, so seeing things from different perspectives was always fascinating for me. Maybe Arena Net just wanted to point out that Elder Dragons ARE vulnerable and they have vulnerability, like said in the story. Though I would not want to see such a plain and easy fight against Elder Dragons in the game again. Mordremoth was OK, but if next expansion brings same plain and linear narrative type, I will be a bit disappointed I guess.

Even though your points make sense, it is TOO LATE to ask anything from Anet, because most likely the new DLC is already almost finished and they will not re-do it from a scratch again

Maybe they are trying to play the story line that the Ancient Dragons were combining their power to banish the Gods influence to the world. That the destruction of the dragons will bring back the power of the Gods!

Crowbeard MysticSpirit.6083:

Maybe they are trying to play the story line that the Ancient Dragons were combining their power to banish the Gods influence to the world. That the destruction of the dragons will bring back the power of the Gods!

Those gods might not be the good guys everyone remembers. Ancient people may have set the elder dragons up to consume magic to keep the more dangerous gods at bay.

Tekoneiric.6817:

Crowbeard MysticSpirit.6083:

Maybe they are trying to play the story line that the Ancient Dragons were combining their power to banish the Gods influence to the world. That the destruction of the dragons will bring back the power of the Gods!

Those gods might not be the good guys everyone remembers. Ancient people may have set the elder dragons up to consume magic to keep the more dangerous gods at bay.

Which leads to a WORLD of possibilities for Expansions and Story lines

The Dragons were on Tyria many tens of thousands of years before the Human Gods arrived remember.

LIVING STORY SEASON IS NOT HOT
though it is gated by hot…

Living story is free for everyone until it ends as is the case with living story season 2 and no doubt season 1 if they ever bring it back.

Thus HoT only consists of the four maps you paid for those four maps and in the future after season 3 has ended new players are going to have to pay for Season 3 as well. Seperate payment means its a separate product meaning Mordremoth was indeed killed at the very end of HoT. Bloodstone Fen and everything till S3 is over is all part of Season 3 and not part of HoT.

So TC while I understand your complaint the issue is really that HoT is crazy short and spread out through numerous gates and checkpoints.

Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if the gods and the dragons were the same thing. There’s too much overlap, so I don’t believe it but I still would not be surprised..

Doam.8305:

LIVING STORY SEASON IS NOT HOT
though it is gated by hot…

Living story is free for everyone until it ends as is the case with living story season 2 and no doubt season 1 if they ever bring it back.

Thus HoT only consists of the four maps you paid for those four maps and in the future after season 3 has ended new players are going to have to pay for Season 3 as well. Seperate payment means its a separate product meaning Mordremoth was indeed killed at the very end of HoT. Bloodstone Fen and everything till S3 is over is all part of Season 3 and not part of HoT.

So TC while I understand your complaint the issue is really that HoT is crazy short and spread out through numerous gates and checkpoints.

Well, Living World (Season 3, and more?) is advertised as part of Heart of Thorns (on the Heart of Thorns contents page/site). Only new players to the entire game, and not just Heart of Thorns will have to pay an additional amount, though, of course, one can bypass the cash cost by using in-game Gold to exchange for Gems.

I don’t know how one truly determines how long or short an expansion is; some players might finish everything in a week, and others might take a year or two. /shrug

I think Primordus and Jormag are beyond saving. We’re going to fight them “normally”.

If they want to change things up, Kralkatorrik is where the story can get interesting. Once Primordus and Jormag are down, he’ll have a vast array of powers to draw upon. More importantly, the deaths of Glint and Snaff may have altered his mind, awakened it. Add Mordremoth’s influence as well, and Kralkatorrik may be the first fully aware and thinking Elder Dragon we get to face.

Imagine Kralkatorrik calling some people to him, and converting them into followers. They go out, and using the powers given to them, start to convert barren lands into fields of green. They quell the fires and melt the ice. They erect towers of vines and crystal, and welcome all who seek shelter. Their message? “Let the dragon’s influence spread, and he can rebalance the world once more. He is awake now, and means you no harm.”

What would we, the hero, do? Help? Fight? Either choice has us going up against something other than the normal dragon minions. Either choice will likely turn us against some of our friends. And even if the dragon turns out to be evil in the end and needs to be put down, what misdeeds will have been done before then? And how do you take down an Elder Dragon that’s able to out think you?

Acrisor.8097:

Please do not start the hype train. Please do not even dare to fuel it.

When first expansion was released, the hype started from these discussions, and after release people started complaining on forums about price, bugs, features they did not like, professions overpowered in PvP, graphical glitches, WvW maps, game balance, and so on… even though the community started the hype all together.

Please, stop asking for a new expansion. If you continue on this path, you are sending marketing team messages like this: “we got money and we desire a new expansion”. Stop pushing developers in turbo-programming-mode, because we all know where this is going.

However, this is just a thought. If you do want a new expansion, keep giving them ideas and fuel for this hype train. But be warned: be careful what you wish for, because you might get only some of it, with a big price.

I’m sorry to tell you this, but you’re almost a year late; ANet’s formalized that there will be another expansion coming almost ten months ago. I made the proposal linked in my signature solely because they announced another one, hoping it’d get popular as a basis of inspiration due to how poorly-designed most HoT content is. Obviously the potential release date is way off, though we have no info on what’s coming, and it very well could be shortly after the next LS episode. The hype train was not good for HoT; I think MO recognizes they better not overhype and under-deliver the next one, which is why things are quiet.

Yes, it’s a bad move, and I’m probably not going to buy it after the blunder that HoT still is until that itself gets fixed, but NCSoft demanded they profit more because HoT under-sold, and demanded it be done with more, and more frequent, boxed expansions.

Once the players started pretending en masse that a boxed expansion was going to be good for the game in 2013, there was no stopping it. It was originally not part of the plan, and it never should have been. Too late, though.

I agree that in the second expansion they should expan on the story and make it last an entire season. Yes the expansion should start off wit the fight against the dragon, but it should elaborate on strategies and plots, in the efforts of creating a better storyline with a much more satisfying victory.

Yannir.4132:

Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if the gods and the dragons were the same thing. There’s too much overlap, so I don’t believe it but I still would not be surprised..

theyre not.

DeceiverX.8361:

Yes, it’s a bad move, and I’m probably not going to buy it after the blunder that HoT still is until that itself gets fixed, but NCSoft demanded they profit more because HoT under-sold, and demanded it be done with more, and more frequent, boxed expansions.

Oh boy…
We’re not even sure next XPac will release in 2018 (even if I hope so) and you’re talking about more frequent boxed expansions ? You’re the optimistic one :o)

I reckon Primo/Jormag will be dead by the next xpac, given that the leaked info (if true) suggests we’re heading to the Crystal Desert to fight Kralkatorik.

DeceiverX.8361:

Acrisor.8097:

Please do not start the hype train. Please do not even dare to fuel it.

When first expansion was released, the hype started from these discussions, and after release people started complaining on forums about price, bugs, features they did not like, professions overpowered in PvP, graphical glitches, WvW maps, game balance, and so on… even though the community started the hype all together.

Please, stop asking for a new expansion. If you continue on this path, you are sending marketing team messages like this: “we got money and we desire a new expansion”. Stop pushing developers in turbo-programming-mode, because we all know where this is going.

However, this is just a thought. If you do want a new expansion, keep giving them ideas and fuel for this hype train. But be warned: be careful what you wish for, because you might get only some of it, with a big price.

I’m sorry to tell you this, but you’re almost a year late; ANet’s formalized that there will be another expansion coming almost ten months ago. I made the proposal linked in my signature solely because they announced another one, hoping it’d get popular as a basis of inspiration due to how poorly-designed most HoT content is. Obviously the potential release date is way off, though we have no info on what’s coming, and it very well could be shortly after the next LS episode. The hype train was not good for HoT; I think MO recognizes they better not overhype and under-deliver the next one, which is why things are quiet.

Yes, it’s a bad move, and I’m probably not going to buy it after the blunder that HoT still is until that itself gets fixed, but NCSoft demanded they profit more because HoT under-sold, and demanded it be done with more, and more frequent, boxed expansions.

Once the players started pretending en masse that a boxed expansion was going to be good for the game in 2013, there was no stopping it. It was originally not part of the plan, and it never should have been. Too late, though.

In the AMA (I believe it was in the AMA), Mike O’Brien stated that it was only one line from the conference call about future expansions, and one should not put much stock in it. Also, that NCSoft pretty much lets ArenaNet call their own shots. Thus, no demands, and as far as when the next expansion(s) release, it may be a shorter period, or a longer period. Likely, it will be ‘when it’s ready’, and no sooner.

Yannir.4132:

Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if the gods and the dragons were the same thing. There’s too much overlap, so I don’t believe it but I still would not be surprised..

I believe the devs have said they’re not the same.

However, I think we’re seeing similarities for a reason. Magic in Tyria naturally falls into different types, such as “Death” and “Fire”. This holds true for both the dragons and the gods, it’s just natural that they’d fall into these types.

Which may also mean that the anti-dragon weapons may be god killers as well. If we figure out how to kill off all of the Elder Dragons, the gods might want to be VERY careful what they say when they return.