Guild Wars 2

How few of the playerbase really has little enough real life constraints and the spare requisite thousands of manhours to grind out the thousands and thousands of grindo points needed to actually use the new expansion class additions? Is this game only for the hardcore forum posters and everyone else can forget about playing the class expansions they bought?

“We don’t make grindy games”.

Congratulations, you’ve made the most grindy MMO I’ve played in 15 years. Grinding AA’s in Everquest1 was more fun and a far better curve on time investment to power/ new class potential jumps.

P.S. thanks so very much for deleting stat boosts from WvW time investment, and yet leaving legendaries and ascended gear aquisition as still giving stat boosts inside wvw play. Because investing your time outside of WvW, should obviously give you the better advantages inside WvW. That makes total sense…

Yup a five million exp grind to continue the story…..

Yay.

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

Sure, many people (including me) were initially drawn to GW2 because it marketed itself as being “not another grindy” game. Yes there was some grind involved …notably legendaries… but that didn’t really affect the vast majority of the player base since such gear is merely optional. But now ?

LOL.

Agree. On top of that, if you only playing that profession due to the new elite spec you’ll have to grind tons of hero proint to unlock the elite spec and start enyoing the gamplay…not kool. Example Necro vs. Reaper. I love the Reaper playstyle but don’t like the Necro at all, now I need to spend hours and hours grinding the hero points to unlock the Reaper…..boring…boring…

Hexalot.8194:

Sure, many people (including me) were initially drawn to GW2 because it marketed itself as being “not another grindy” game. Yes there was some grind involved …notably legendaries… but that didn’t really affect the vast majority of the player base since such gear is merely optional. But now ?

LOL.

Its not exactly grind though as you only have to complete each hero point once. Grind is doing the same content over and over to progress. You just have to do the content on the new maps once time per character, which you would probably be doing anyway right? Otherwise why buy the exp.

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

Seriously you are that unaware that you think everyone plays the game the same way? Guess what some people do not like the tedious open world content in this game, but until now that hasn’t restricted your actual gameplay in other areas, if you were levelling a character and weren’t keen on open world PvE you had plenty of other options – EoTM, WvW, crafting, PvP, tomes, dungeons, etc.

With this people who for example enjoy fractals, dungeons and raids, but can’t stand open world PvE, are forced to go grind these tedious PvE zones as that is where the hero points are.

Maybe you are new, but this game was sold on things like “lack of grind”, “play your own way”, the way getting these new specialisations is handled is contrary to those philosophies.

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

There’s already been a long wait to play the new profession mechanics. Some look at the 3+ years playing with almost nothing new added to profession play. Others look at the 9 months since the HoT announcement. Either way, they feel as if they’ve waited enough. If one’s primary reason to but HoT was to experience the new specs, then finding out at the last minute that one would have to earn masteries first, then complete a bunch of Maguma Challenges to do so was longer than they wanted to wait. It’s not that people don’t want to play the new content, they wanted to experience the new content while playing the new mechanics — not while playing the old ones they’re dog-tired of.

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

Sure, many people (including me) were initially drawn to GW2 because it marketed itself as being “not another grindy” game. Yes there was some grind involved …notably legendaries… but that didn’t really affect the vast majority of the player base since such gear is merely optional. But now ?

LOL.

Its not exactly grind though as you only have to complete each hero point once. Grind is doing the same content over and over to progress. You just have to do the content on the new maps once time per character, which you would probably be doing anyway right? Otherwise why buy the exp.

Once per character, with several masteries each requiring unlocking at one million points of EXP per level, required to get said hero points.

Yes the mastery grind will eventually be over, but add it to the hero point grind and its just too much when its not unlocking a bit of fluff, but is unlocking functionality for a class.

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

Sure, many people (including me) were initially drawn to GW2 because it marketed itself as being “not another grindy” game. Yes there was some grind involved …notably legendaries… but that didn’t really affect the vast majority of the player base since such gear is merely optional. But now ?

LOL.

Its not exactly grind though as you only have to complete each hero point once. Grind is doing the same content over and over to progress. You just have to do the content on the new maps once time per character, which you would probably be doing anyway right? Otherwise why buy the exp.

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

You’re forced to play playstyles you possibly either don’t like, or are very bored of, for thousands of hours to eventually experience the new playstyles you were really excited about.

This is the absolute worst example of grind ever.

Having Zero elites and instead 2-3 entirely new character classes would have been massively superior.

zinkz.7045:

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

Seriously you are that unaware that you think everyone plays the game the same way? Guess what some people do not like the tedious open world content in this game, but until now that hasn’t restricted you actual gameplay, if you were levelling a character and weren’t keen on open world PvE you had plenty of other options – EoTM, WvW, crafting, PvP, tomes, dungeons, etc.

With this people who for example enjoy fractals, dungeons and raids, but can’t stand open world PvE, are forced to go grind these tedious PvE zones as that is where the hero points are.

Maybe you are new, but this game was sold on things like “lack of grind”, “play your own way”, the way getting these new specialisations is handled is contrary to those philosophies.

Actually ive been here since launch and mostly only do dungeons these days. Just because you dont like something doesnt mean its a grind. Game content is not only limited to ‘things I like doing’.

If you want specializations though, yeah you will have to put some effort in and play the game content you paid for. It was marketed as, and designed as, character progression which requires work and effort, not instant gratification, otherwise it wouldnt be character progression.

Play your own way has always referred not being hard locked out of content due to your build or gear choice. Not I should get all the rewards for doing only a tiny part of the game. You can still take part in every single piece of game content without the elite specializations.

If you have such a problem with PVE maps hero points will be coming to wvw too so you can progress your character through those means. So there is an option.

And yes my reply is snarkier than usual but thats because you seemed to think it was ok to insult me for asking a completely reasonable question.

Kalan.9705:

You’re forced to play playstyles you possibly either don’t like, or are very bored of, for thousands of hours to eventually experience the new playstyles you were really excited about.

This is the absolute worst example of grind ever.

Having Zero elites and instead 2-3 entirely new character classes would have been massively superior.

Its character progression though not a new class in itself. I understand it must be frustrating but, well , this is how character progression works. I dont get why people assumed would be different.

Hexalot.8194:

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

I thought you could get masteries by doing anything that granted exp? If im wrong I apologise and please correct me.

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

I thought you could get masteries by doing anything that granted exp? If im wrong I apologise and please correct me.

Only in the new zones if you’re wanting to progress towards specializations.

Edit:

And with requirements of multiple millions of EXP.

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

I thought you could get masteries by doing anything that granted exp? If im wrong I apologise and please correct me.

Exp from anything in the expac jungle yes. So basically I’m stuck running around killing random mobs while running from event to event, and watching my exp bar move ever so slooowly.

Hexalot.8194:

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

I thought you could get masteries by doing anything that granted exp? If im wrong I apologise and please correct me.

Exp from anything in the expac jungle yes. So basically I’m stuck running around killing random mobs while running from event to event, and watching my exp bar move ever so slooowly.

Thats a fair point. Thankyou for explaining, I understand the complains abit more now., although I still think the compaints about hero points are unjustified.

Perhaps a better direction would be to campaign for exp from all aspects of the game to count towards masteries, or at least all new HOT content such as the revamped fractals and wvw borderlands.

zombyturtle.5980:

Actually ive been here since launch and mostly only do dungeons these days. Just because you dont like something doesnt mean its a grind.

Being forced to spend countless hours playing content you dislike in order to be able to fully play the content you do like is grind.

zombyturtle.5980:

Play your own way has always referred …

Not really, it encompasses things such as levelling, where players who enjoy different types of content can “play their own way”, so can level through PvP, WvW, EoTM, crafting, open world PvE, dungeons, etc, which is in direct contrast to the very limited options for unlocking a class specialisation.

This expansion further enhances the uturn from the core original promises of the GW2 team which we bought into at launch.

“Play your own way” – However only a few ways really properly count for progress and rewards. There are wildly different returns on time investment depending on whether you choose well supported or undersupported play modes.

“We don’t make grindy games” – However we’ve made one of the most grindy western mmo’s ever, and gate additions behind extra grinds at every possible opportunity.

Kalan.9705:

This expansion further enhances the uturn from the core original promises of the GW2 team which we bought into at launch.

“Play your own way” – However only a few ways really properly count for progress and rewards. There are wildly different returns on time investment depending on whether you choose well supported or undersupported play modes.

“We don’t make grindy games” – However we’ve made one of the most grindy western mmo’s ever, and gate additions behind extra grinds at every possible opportunity.

You are so adorable. You’ve made my day

Hexalot.8194:

zombyturtle.5980:

Hexalot.8194:

I’m talking about the masteries though, which… at millions of exp per line… is bordering on Korean grind. And you need to get those out of the way before you can tackle the Hero challenges on the map.

I thought you could get masteries by doing anything that granted exp? If im wrong I apologise and please correct me.

Exp from anything in the expac jungle yes. So basically I’m stuck running around killing random mobs while running from event to event, and watching my exp bar move ever so slooowly.

Uh, there’s Maguuma masteries which require the new maps, yes. Tyrian masteries are trained in the old maps (which includes SW and DT). Just wanted to make that distinction clear so people don’t think you can only train masteries in the new maps which would be a lie.

ANet has done a complete 180 from GW1, which was the ultimate “play your way, no-grind” game.

With HoT, they took “no-grind philosophy” out back behind the woodshed, gunned it down like a mad dog, threw it unceremoniously into a ditch, and dumped a metric ton of quicklime over it.

zinkz.7045:

zombyturtle.5980:

Actually ive been here since launch and mostly only do dungeons these days. Just because you dont like something doesnt mean its a grind.

Being forced to spend countless hours playing content you dislike in order to be able to fully play the content you do like is grind.

No. Grind is doing repetitive tasks with no variation in gameplay or strategy. With an emphasis on repetitive.

Just because you dont like doing something does NOT make it grind. Unless you have to repeat it multiple times to achieve your goal, it is by definition not grind. It may be unpleasant or boring for you personally however.
If we accept your definition then literally anything could be taken as grindy as there will always be someone who doesnt like the actual content but wants the rewards.

Now despite that masteries may be a grind. If you have to do events on the new maps over and over to gain enough exp then yes it is a grind. If you only have to do each event once , and complete each map once, it is not.

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

lol. I didn’t pay for this. I paid for elite specializations, not to grind for them.

At the minimum, if I wanted to unlock all of the new, nine specializations, that would be 3,600 hero points. To unlock specializations in all of my sixteen level 80 characters, I would need 6,400 hero points. For reference, I have only 1,000+ spirit shards, which is basically converted skill points scrolls. And yet I need 6,400 hero points, 3,600 at the minimum. In the three years I have played the game, I have only collected 1,000+ skill point scrolls, yet I need 3,600 hero points (and more). Think about that. Arenanet, please be merciful.

HaxTester.9816:

At the minimum, if I wanted to unlock all of the new, nine specializations, that would be 3,600 hero points. To unlock specializations in all of my sixteen level 80 characters, I would need 6,400 hero points. For reference, I have only 1,000+ spirit shards, which is basically converted skill points scrolls. And yet I need 6,400 hero points, 3,600 at the minimum. In the three years I have played the game, I have only collected 1,000+ skill point scrolls, yet I need 3,600 hero points (and more). Think about that. Arenanet, please be merciful.

As another poster above said, it’s only a grind if you have to repeat the same kitten you don’t like doing on a toon that isn’t suited to pve over and over and over…oh wait….

Im enjoying the game atm… but I think this exp grinding is gonna have me bored and re-quitting within a month. A shame really

Im already deleting level 80s. No point if Im never going to be able to progress them due to grind.

I have to say…….I’m really bummed out about the way they implemented this stuff.

I simply hate hate hate doing any of the story content in the game. Now I feel forced into the story content.

Locking away elite specs too is really irritating me. I had 220 points and now I can’t even touch Chronomancer for quite awhile. A real let down.

So far I just feel like going back to farming and working on older legi’s or ascended crafting. All the new content just feels locked away and more hassle then it’s worth.

PS. I’m not really understanding why they felt they had to lock so much away when Gw2 has never been lacking in things to do.

Kalan.9705:

Having Zero elites and instead 2-3 entirely new character classes would have been massively superior.

The gw2 community ladies and gentlemen. Advocating 2-3 additional classes as a viable expansion feature.

Second day into the expansion and already we have someone in guild with lvl 32 mastery (from the regular zone), just by “grinding” a dungeon for several hours for the exp needed.

So basically, you can enter an instance and smack away at the endless mobs that spawn in order to get your masteries, then go into the new zones and kill a crapload of mobs and do a crapload of events in order to get those masteries as well.

Means that you just need to get a lot of Exp. Which is the definition of a grind.

Players just wanted the new content and be able to play it with exactly those specializations (400 hero points) , but now they have to “grind” their butts off first with the standard character(s) before they can even enjoy the new char specializations.

This will lead to players being bored with the content by the time they unlock their class specs.

Way to go Anet, you force players to grind for the exp while telling them ‘this isn’t a grind mmo", tell me, who the hell do you think believes that statement ?

My bet : within 3 months your playerbase will have been returned to the way it was before the HoT announcement.

I’m not really understanding why they felt they had to lock so much away when Gw2 has never been lacking in things to do.

That’s in order to keep people playing longer and spending more gold. Would have been a good idea but some players will definately give up at some point when they have ‘rushed’ through the maps/content again.

Something i see several players do already in the guild i’m in. The rushing i mean.
All the ‘complainers’ wanted was to play the new content with their new spec class, something that will be completely obsolete now for those who don’t go PvP/WvW.

Who would want to play a new spec when they’re done with the content besides those mentioned above.

Personally, i find HoT great, but as i suspected it would be, those elite specs are pretty pointless if content is done.

I would’ve preferred if the story wasn’t gated behind masteries, if the zones were fully explorable without masteries, and if masteries were completely optional features that granted cosmetic rewards.

I played for about 3 hours last night and that’s as much time as I think I’ll spend in the HoT zones. Such a waste of money. Wish I never bought it. GG Anet, you’ve won.

zinkz.7045:

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

Seriously you are that unaware that you think everyone plays the game the same way? Guess what some people do not like the tedious open world content in this game, but until now that hasn’t restricted your actual gameplay in other areas, if you were levelling a character and weren’t keen on open world PvE you had plenty of other options – EoTM, WvW, crafting, PvP, tomes, dungeons, etc.

With this people who for example enjoy fractals, dungeons and raids, but can’t stand open world PvE, are forced to go grind these tedious PvE zones as that is where the hero points are.

Maybe you are new, but this game was sold on things like “lack of grind”, “play your own way”, the way getting these new specialisations is handled is contrary to those philosophies.

There is some misunderstanding here that seems to come up every time someone throws around “play your way” and “no grind”. I would recommend doing some research and finding the origins of these sayings before repeating them. For example, the classic “play your way” was in reference to there being no dedicated roles in the game. The example they gave was about no waiting on healers to clear certain content. They even released this little comic strip to illustrate what they were saying.

Now for my own opinion for the mastery exp is that it really is not that bad. Yea it is millions of exp but you only have to do it once. For example, when you complete gliding all your characters have max level gliding which is a lot better compared to other games that raise the level cap to where you have to get millions of exp on multiple toons along with gearing them up as well. All in all, it’s not as bad as people are making it out to be and is a lot better than what most MMOs usually do with expansions.

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

That’s just it though – they can’t just “play the content”. You hit a wall, and written on that wall is the words, “Go and grind 5million XP (basically to 80 again and then some) and then you can have fun.”

Good job Anet. /sarcasm

zombyturtle.5980:

Can someone please explain to me why sooo many people have such a huge problem actually playing the content they paid for in order to progress their characters. I mean why even buy it if you are so against playing it. I just dont get it x.x

Here’s my viewpoint:

Instead of doing the new content on with the new elites I was excited about using, I have to first complete the new content, and also first do all the old map content I never liked in the first place, all without using the elite specs. Metric frak tons of grind, before I can use the elites.

Now repeat the same grind again, in every case without using the elite specs while doing the grind, because it’s all gated bullshot, for another 8 characters (or more, many people have more).

If you look at all 11 of my characters and add up their entire map completion ‘s across all 11 it wouldn’t even add up to just one time 100, let alone 1100% map completion. The new expansion has gated the elites behind approximately 2200% map completion (approximately one old world map run through plus a new world map run through to get all the stupid grindo points).

If I didn’t want to do map clears even once on any of 11 characters in the last 3+ years, why would I want to do map clears like 18x or more times just to finally be allowed to get past the kitten gates infront of the elite specs?