Guild Wars 2

With the news that Bruce Jenner is now known as Caitlyn Jenner, and the fact that people are becoming more comfortable with alternative lifestyles, perhaps it’s time for Guild Wars 2 to have a Transgender character in the storyline. We already have homosexual couples (Marjory/Kasmeer and Caithe/Faolain), a close inter-species couple (Braham and Rox), and a bi-racial couple (Logan and Jenna). It’s safe to say that Anet is not one to shy away from the non-traditional relationships that many in the world share.

I have homosexual friends who find GW2 story refreshing and empowering. To openly showcase main characters with such relationships, the Anet writers are carving new opportunities to introduce people to aspects of the LGBT community. And in doing so, helps to make people more comfortable and understanding of our misunderstood friends.

So, my fellow Tyrians. Do you feel it’s time to expand the story to more LGBT type characters? You could even take existing heroes, and have them undergo a transformation! Imagine the possibilities!

I have no problem with LGBT chars/relationships in games.

As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, it is absolutely fine.

I do, however, draw the line at interspecies stuff as that is just wrong.

Who is to say none of the characters are trans-gender anyway?

Getting tired of pump and dump tp postings?

what does sexual preferences have to do with a fantasie game? isnt like caithe lesbian already?

(i am no where near against lgbt community, but it is just a game after all)

Real world issues do not need to be reflected in a game, nor should they. If people find empowerment in a game, they need to take a closer look at their lives. If something like your suggestion were to happen, I assure you it would not have the desired result. It would just be a tool in which to ridicule the very people you wish to include.

Not sure where I stand on this. Honestly I have no problem with same gender couples and have multiple friends who live that livestyle or people who feel trapped in the wrong body, though I still get slightly confused here. Good friends in fact.

I know there is more and more news about people changing gender and/or feeling unhappy about they gender they are born with. Don’t think this becomes more, just that people are more open and ready to accept this and act on their emotions/desires. This is a good thing!

What I DON’T like is having this rubed in my face every step of the way. There are minors playing this game who are in their formative years and already confused enough with hitting puberty and post puberty years. I understand the need to create awareness but am not so sure about videos games being the first place to start doing so. I’m also not a big fan of violance on tv and video games (though that boat has sailed) and I certainly enjoy my share of Witcher 3 blood and gore.

Would I be offended if anet added transgender characters? No.

Would I question their decision to do so in GW2? Sure.

A good example is Bioware and their latest games. They’ve gone so over the top trying to incorporate alternative crowds that the novelty has worn off and people have moved to an “another gay couple, hooray (sarcasm warning!)” mood. It’s counter productiv.

I can see some double standards already. With Taimi, her disabilities were a boon to players with similar real life disabilities. The Anet writers were cheered on and praised for including a hero with shortcomings. Players felt empowered, and followed the Living Story closely as Taimi persevered through her trails.

Now let’s switch things around, and say that Taimi was a Transgender asura. All of a sudden, it’s no longer inspiring to have a main character, a hero no less, have an alternative lifestyle. Taimi would be shunned in this instance.

Moral of the story, fantasy characters allow players to connect to them in various ways. It helps players to have a brief escape from the pains of reality. Be it being disabled, or bullied for being different. This is where you find the difference between a writer who just creates a character, and a writer who creates a story. If you can create someone who players can connect to, the story has more meaning, and gets a life of it’s own.

Why?

I’m all for equality and have been a lifelong egalitarian, but what would be the point? Why mire a game in political controversy unless it can forward the narrative in a meaningful way?

Tyria is a world full of prejudice and conflict with little room for luxury and no precedent of surgical procedures at all that I am aware of. Popping a transgender NPC in to the game would make absolutely no narrative sense and bring nothing at all to the game except a giant plot hole

I honestly don’t see a reason. This isn’t a mature game. Our characters never encounter sex. They don’t even have sexual organs. You can make feminine looking guys, you can make masculine women. You can RP your character however you like. But visually nothing needs to change. Do they need to put this into a characters story to be inclusive? I don’t think so. I don’t see this as common in a fantasy/medieval setting. They usually have more important things to worry about than gender identity. Like getting food on the table or not dying to bandits or wild monsters.

I have nothing against it, but from a story and lore standpoint, I don’t feel the game needs to change at all.

rapthorne.7345:

Tyria is a world full of prejudice and conflict with little room for luxury and no precedent of surgical procedures at all that I am aware of. Popping a transgender NPC in to the game would make absolutely no narrative sense and bring nothing at all to the game except a giant plot hole

being trans doesn’t require surgery

Smooth Penguin.5294:

With the news that Bruce Jenner is now known as Caitlyn Jenner, and the fact that people are becoming more comfortable with alternative lifestyles, perhaps it’s time for Guild Wars 2 to have a Transgender character in the storyline.

I like the idea (full disclosure: I am transgendered). It is just a matter of finding the right way to do it. One way is via lore for a character’s backstory: next to nothing to implement and those that did not want the content could easily avoid that part of the backstory. There is at least one big LGBT guild and who would have even more idea.

Who is bruce jenner?

Oxidia.8103:

Who is bruce jenner?

ex-olympian american celebrity who now goes by Caitlyn

i think like 500 posts just got deleted

One of my posts was just deleted because I quoted someone. Okay, without quoting then.

As was said, being trans does not require surgery. We do have magic everywhere and there is high-tech via the asura if someone needed to do a full transition though.

In all honesty, I could see this falling in to the Sylvari way of life, if it isn’t already. The Sylvari have a very fluid view on sexuality and identity as it is so it could fit with their lore.

The main issue truly is the whole just having a trans character for the sake of having a trans character would be pointless without a meaningful attachment to the character and their struggles.

Unless a meaningful narrative can come from it, it should not be pursued just for the sake of having a trans character in the game.

If you could come up with some way in which a trans character could forward the narrative of the living/personal/etc story while also having their own backstory to tell that isn’t just cheap pandering to the LGBT community, then I’m all for it.

Do not, however, just demand that a trans character be put in to the game for the sake of representation of the trans community, because that just cheapens things and devalues the immersiveness and narrative of Tyria

Ralanost.8913:

I honestly don’t see a reason. This isn’t a mature game. Our characters never encounter sex. They don’t even have sexual organs. You can make feminine looking guys, you can make masculine women. You can RP your character however you like. But visually nothing needs to change. Do they need to put this into a characters story to be inclusive? I don’t think so. I don’t see this as common in a fantasy/medieval setting. They usually have more important things to worry about than gender identity. Like getting food on the table or not dying to bandits or wild monsters.

I have nothing against it, but from a story and lore standpoint, I don’t feel the game needs to change at all.

The female humans have secondary sexual organs – pretty sure we’re supposed to assume they also have primary ones?

I don’t think there is any need for sexual themes in this game, but marriages aren’t supposed to just be about sex.

The point is, if a Sylvari female, for example, called you over and said her wife had gone missing in the forest and could you help find her, would that be so bad?

I’m straight and it doesn’t bother, or threaten, me.

If I had kids, I wouldn’t think it would upset them, or turn them gay.

I don’t think you can be turned gay, anyway – you either are, or you aren’t (or you’re somewhere in between).

I think you can be given permission to be who you are, but that is a good thing, surely?

If this was about anything else, we would (hopefully) want our kids to realise they could be themselves and not have to try to live a lie.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I can see some double standards already. With Taimi, her disabilities were a boon to players with similar real life disabilities. The Anet writers were cheered on and praised for including a hero with shortcomings. Players felt empowered, and followed the Living Story closely as Taimi persevered through her trails.

Now let’s switch things around, and say that Taimi was a Transgender asura. All of a sudden, it’s no longer inspiring to have a main character, a hero no less, have an alternative lifestyle. Taimi would be shunned in this instance.

Moral of the story, fantasy characters allow players to connect to them in various ways. It helps players to have a brief escape from the pains of reality. Be it being disabled, or bullied for being different. This is where you find the difference between a writer who just creates a character, and a writer who creates a story. If you can create someone who players can connect to, the story has more meaning, and gets a life of it’s own.

I agree. I’m also seeing the same double standards.

People are fine with Taimi, and her struggle in people treating her differently because of her disability, but then the very same people say games shouldn’t ‘force’ or have LGBT characters in the game (who are also a minority and still treated like 2nd class citizens in many countries – some even imprisoned and killed for being who they are – Uganda, Pakistan, Nigeria, as a few examples) because heaven forbid, people may just feel like they’re actually INCLUDED and have a voice, where they may not have one in real life.

And if people think characters with different sexual orientations or gender identities are being ‘shoved down your throat’, please don’t flatter yourself. One could argue I have heterosexuality shoved down my throat everyday. You don’t see me picketing.

We’re all different. Accept this, and get over it.

You have my support for LGBT characters.

Edit: And as for personal opinion, I think Caitlyn Jenner looks fierce (I also think she looks better as a woman than her former identity), and I’m glad she’s finally able to be herself.

I agree it needs to be done correctly. For example, one way would be to have them do important things in lore both before and after their transition. One source for inspiration could come from mythology … Cybele is one example.

Yeah, I don’t know what is happening with the post deletion, here, Menadena.

Some of my replies have gone, too.

Tigaseye.2047:

Yeah, I don’t know what is happening with the post deletion, here, Menadena.

Some of my replies have gone, too.

Reply number 3 or 4 from when the thread was created (which was very hateful) got moded. Every message quoting said reply gets deleted too as to not leave it in the thread.

EDIT:
Just for clarification since people might get confused as to what was hateful. The deleted post of corse, not the OP or topic

I’m glad their post was deleted. It was so disgusting. If I could remember the player’s username I would also put them on my block list so as to not see any more of the vile they spewed in here :-/

Cyninja.2954:

Tigaseye.2047:

Yeah, I don’t know what is happening with the post deletion, here, Menadena.

Some of my replies have gone, too.

Reply number 3 or 4 from when the thread was created (which was very hateful) got moded. Every message quoting said reply gets deleted too as to not leave it in the thread.

Well, that’s good then, I guess.

Although, we do have to face facts – some people still feel that way, unfortunately.

Zaoda.1653:

I agree. I’m also seeing the same double standards.

People are fine with having Taimi, with her struggle in people treating her differently because of her disability, but then the very same people say games shouldn’t ‘force’ or have LGBT characters in the game (who are also a minority and still treated like 2nd class citizens in many countries – some even imprisoned and killed for being who they are – Uganda, Pakistan, Nigeria, as a few examples) because heaven forbid, people may just feel like they’re actually INCLUDED and have a voice, where they may not have one in real life.

And if people think characters with different sexual orientations or gender identities are being ‘shoved down your throat’, please don’t flatter yourself. One could argue I have heterosexuality shoved down my throat everyday. You don’t see me picketing.

We’re all different. Accept this, and get over it.

You have my support for LGBT characters.

And if we were 20-50 years in the future I would completely agree. But we are not, and society as a whole is changing. This means that people need to get used to new concepts and be given enough time to adapt and change.

Just screeming “You have to accept me!” does not make it so. Also don’t mix same sex relationsships with gender confusion. Those are 2 very different things and one of both is futher down the road than the other. Will we as a society come to accept both fully? Hopefully. But denying people their comfort and own pace to adapt is just as ignorant as people refusing to adapt.

Zaoda.1653:

One could argue I have heterosexuality shoved down my throat everyday. You don’t see me picketing.

Zaoda.1653:

We’re all different. Accept this, and get over it.

See what I did there?

Tigaseye.2047:

Ralanost.8913:

I honestly don’t see a reason. This isn’t a mature game. Our characters never encounter sex. They don’t even have sexual organs. You can make feminine looking guys, you can make masculine women. You can RP your character however you like. But visually nothing needs to change. Do they need to put this into a characters story to be inclusive? I don’t think so. I don’t see this as common in a fantasy/medieval setting. They usually have more important things to worry about than gender identity. Like getting food on the table or not dying to bandits or wild monsters.

I have nothing against it, but from a story and lore standpoint, I don’t feel the game needs to change at all.

The female humans have secondary sexual organs – pretty sure we’re supposed to assume they also have primary ones?

I don’t think there is any need for sexual themes in this game, but marriages aren’t supposed to just be about sex.

The point is, if a Sylvari female, for example, called you over and said her wife had gone missing in the forest and could you help find her, would that be so bad?

I’m straight and it doesn’t bother, or threaten, me.

If I had kids, I wouldn’t think it would upset them, or turn them gay.

I don’t think you can be turned gay, anyway – you either are, or you aren’t (or you’re somewhere in between).

I think you can be given permission to be who you are, but that is a good thing, surely?

If this was about anything else, we would (hopefully) want our kids to realise they could be themselves and not have to try to live a lie.

I think you are getting transgender characters and same sex relationships mixed up. Those are completely different subjects.

Cyninja.2954:

Tigaseye.2047:

Yeah, I don’t know what is happening with the post deletion, here, Menadena.

Some of my replies have gone, too.

Reply number 3 or 4 from when the thread was created (which was very hateful) got moded. Every message quoting said reply gets deleted too as to not leave it in the thread.

Interesting, the post I quoted was positive and they were quoting something that was, if I remember correctly, misinformed rather than hateful.

It has the potential to feel a bit forced imo, like how tv shows shoehorn in minority characters in a half-baked attempt to look progressive.

Why would one persons personal choice in the real world affect how I want to play in gw2?
Seems like yet another non starter post meant to illicit a response!

Interesting that someone should bring up that it does not follow that same sex relationships does not mean gender identity gets coverage as well. At least in the US the ‘pioneers’ for what became the gay pride movement were trans people. I would not be shocked if it was the same in other societies as well.

Menadena.7482:

Interesting that someone should bring up that it does not follow that same sex relationships does not mean gender identity gets coverage as well. At least in the US the ‘pioneers’ for what became the gay pride movement were trans people. I would not be shocked if it was the same in other societies as well.

Except that same sex relationships date back to before the middle ages and the US did not even exist back then. :/

EDIT:
Or to be more precise, records of same sex relationships. Actual same sex relations probably date back to almost when we as a species started having sex, or like 5 minutes after.

Ralanost.8913:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ralanost.8913:

I honestly don’t see a reason. This isn’t a mature game. Our characters never encounter sex. They don’t even have sexual organs. You can make feminine looking guys, you can make masculine women. You can RP your character however you like. But visually nothing needs to change. Do they need to put this into a characters story to be inclusive? I don’t think so. I don’t see this as common in a fantasy/medieval setting. They usually have more important things to worry about than gender identity. Like getting food on the table or not dying to bandits or wild monsters.

I have nothing against it, but from a story and lore standpoint, I don’t feel the game needs to change at all.

The female humans have secondary sexual organs – pretty sure we’re supposed to assume they also have primary ones?

I don’t think there is any need for sexual themes in this game, but marriages aren’t supposed to just be about sex.

The point is, if a Sylvari female, for example, called you over and said her wife had gone missing in the forest and could you help find her, would that be so bad?

I’m straight and it doesn’t bother, or threaten, me.

If I had kids, I wouldn’t think it would upset them, or turn them gay.

I don’t think you can be turned gay, anyway – you either are, or you aren’t (or you’re somewhere in between).

I think you can be given permission to be who you are, but that is a good thing, surely?

If this was about anything else, we would (hopefully) want our kids to realise they could be themselves and not have to try to live a lie.

I think you are getting transgender characters and same sex relationships mixed up. Those are completely different subjects.

Well, I was talking about the subject, in general, when I gave that example; not just transgender.

I used that example, as opposed to one for transgender, as it is something you would need to explain, to an extent.

Otherwise, if a female char just asked you to find another female char for her, without saying she was her wife/girlfriend/partner, you would probably just assume that they were friends, or sisters, or something.

I would have thought it would be even easier to subtly include a transgender character?

As you would just include a female-looking char with a male name (or maybe not even a male name), or vice versa.

No explanation needed.

Remember my mentioning Cybele? That is evidence right there of gender identity going WELL before the middle ages!

Great idea! I’d start with Trahearne. Someone give me a saw, please.

Menadena.7482:

Remember my mentioning Cybele? That is evidence right there of gender identity going WELL before the middle ages!

And it was received a mixed reception back then too where as having a catamite (I think this is the term. basically a toyboy) was widely accepted especially for artists during the renaissance. Not to mention orgies in old Rome.

All I’m saying is, from my point of view and experience, in a wide part of society same sex relations are more accepted than transgender at the moment. This has to be taken into account.

They could do it in a rather interesting way, like having a Mesmer spawn clones of the opposite sex because its how they would prefer to see themselves. It woud be more subtle than someone running up and saying it, feeds into the world’s lore and would be a rather good way of representing a complicated issue in a fantasy world.

I think that all the political correctness is getting a bit tiresome, frankly. Not because I’ve got any issues with gender identity / handicaps / sexual orientation / race or what have you, but because I’m tired of getting my face rubbed into it.

Why bring political agenda into videogames. I can’t see a need or a reason for them to do this, the game is fine, the characters are fine, why push in controversy just for the sake of pushing in controversy. I’m not against LGBTin any way irl, But i don’t like people trying to push social agenda into my life through vidya games, if you want to show support go make a sign and visit a parade.

I’m kind of ambivalent on this. Do it or don’t, it won’t matter much anyway. Story is irrelevant for the most part, and adds very little long-term value to the game (which is what is needed most, imo).

Generally I still think the lore and setting of Tyria are too vanilla and basic for that sort of thing. I can dig the bisexual Sylvari, that works, but going too much beyond that would just seem forced.

VaaCrow.3076:

Why bring political agenda into videogames. I can’t see a need or a reason for them to do this, the game is fine, the characters are fine, why push in controversy just for the sake of pushing in controversy. I’m not against LGBTin any way irl, But i don’t like people trying to push social agenda into my life through vidya games, if you want to show support go make a sign and visit a parade.

You contradicted yourself when you said ’I’m not against LGBT in any way, *BUT*’. When you say ‘but’ in a sentence like this, you’re basically saying ‘this is what I want people to think, now I’m going to say what I REALLY think’

Sexuality isn’t (or at least, shouldn’t be) an agenda, any more than having 95% of straight characters in games shoved in MY face or straight couples with the 2 kids, the dog and the white picket fence adverts on tv is an ‘agenda’.

These really are, the same sort of arguments made when black people were struggling to be accepted as equals. Now let me rephrase everything you just said, but instead of it being about sexuality, let’s make it about race, to see if it has any more logic…

VaaCrow.3076:

Why bring racial agenda into videogames. I can’t see a need or a reason for them to do this, the game is fine, the characters are fine, why push in controversy just for the sake of pushing in controversy. I’m not against black people in any way irl, But i don’t like people trying to push their agenda into my life through video games, if you want to show support go make a sign and visit a parade.

Nope, sorry. No logic.

Broom.2561:

I think that all the political correctness is getting a bit tiresome, frankly. Not because I’ve got any issues with gender identity / handicaps / sexual orientation / race or what have you, but because I’m tired of getting my face rubbed into it.

As someone else pointed out, earlier – on that basis, we’re constantly rubbing their faces (not sure I really like that phrase, under the circumstances!) in our non-transgender heterosexuality, all the time, without even realising it.

If straight marriages between feminine women and masculine men are depicted constantly, why shouldn’t they get the occasional gay marriage, or transgender person, to relate to?

If that had just happened automatically, no one would have had a reason to make a thread like this.

As a Muslim I can barely tolerate gays and now you would want to make me more uncomfortable? This game is made for everyone, not just Americans.

Uuuurgh I’m sick of all the hate towards the LGBT community here. People saying we’re ‘deviants, weirdo’s’ etc. and people saying they can barely tolerate us…

I’m leaving this thread. I don’t want to waste any more time bashing my head against a brick wall. Just going nowhere with this.

Moral of this thread: Most people don’t want people who are different, represented in the game.

I can’t say I’m surprised really. There’s still clearly so much hatred for LGBT people. Good luck with your thread OP, I’m out. I feel like I’m arguing with 5 year olds.

Since the discussion in this thread has derailed and is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.