Guild Wars 2

(New page bug really needs fixed, guys.)

Yargesh.4965:

Guhracie.3419:

Yargesh.4965:

People seem to have attachment issues. This is a game, not a personal relationship. You may be a wonderful person, you may be a nutbar, all the same thing since you are a name and in some cases several books worth of postings on forums or whatever. Nothing more.
There is no relationship except business to customer.
They owe you nothing but the game.
If they lose people it is not because they don’t love you.

Your straw man isn’t even very good. I feel sad for you.

If they lose people, they lose money.

This whole conversation is about the business/customer relationship.

All you have is strawman and sad? You really need new material.

You must of flunked economics 101. The same rules that apply to personal relationships apply to business relationships. Trust, honor, respect, communication etc all apply to either and or.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

sigh
A lot of us strictly mentioned that we know you have a dedicated team of ~70 (?) people for making LS content. The question that bothers everybody that what the heck the rest of the company do if you have 300+ employee? We get it there are a lot of art, design, audio, community, whatnot members but somewhere, someones doing something, right?
We hope you do something beside LS and QoL stuff and 1-2 year old bug fixes. Say yes to this and it’s a good start. If you can be accurate like … “we doing raid content” or “we are making new maps for something bigger ;D” oooor “i like my new great axe on my warrior while i tested new stuff”. Do some hints and oh boy the hype will rip off the roof.
Sincerely.

The world cutest llama.

Asglarek.8976:

Yargesh.4965:

Guhracie.3419:

Yargesh.4965:

People seem to have attachment issues. This is a game, not a personal relationship. You may be a wonderful person, you may be a nutbar, all the same thing since you are a name and in some cases several books worth of postings on forums or whatever. Nothing more.
There is no relationship except business to customer.
They owe you nothing but the game.
If they lose people it is not because they don’t love you.

Your straw man isn’t even very good. I feel sad for you.

If they lose people, they lose money.

This whole conversation is about the business/customer relationship.

All you have is strawman and sad? You really need new material.

You must of flunked economics 101. The same rules that apply to personal relationships apply to business relationships. Trust, honor, respect, communication etc all apply to either and or.

guess I did at that, have fun on this…. topic

Guhracie.3419:

Yargesh.4965:

People seem to have attachment issues. This is a game, not a personal relationship. You may be a wonderful person, you may be a nutbar, all the same thing since you are a name and in some cases several books worth of postings on forums or whatever. Nothing more.
There is no relationship except business to customer.
They owe you nothing but the game.
If they lose people it is not because they don’t love you.

Your straw man isn’t even very good. I feel sad for you.

If they lose people, they lose money.

This whole conversation is about the business/customer relationship.

That’s not necessarily true. Sometimes it’s about losing the right people. I lost quite a few customers in my shop when I closed the mac section and most of them were very annoyed. But I made more profit not having it.

People talk as if losing people isn’t a normal part of business. No business is going to hold everyone. Sometimes losing people who don’t like your product while keeping and attracting people who do is a sound business strategy.

@ palador

When i saw that with Marjory, i was also hoping for it, that this is a kind of sign, that we maybe will see in a distant near future Sub Classes, like I suggested that in the Chracter progression CDI, which could be used to unlock for the classes new Weapon Options and new Utility Skills.

I wouldn’t be surprised, if we would have one day greatsword wielding Ritualists as a Sub Class for Necromancers which enable players to unlock this way by choosing this path of character development the Greatsword for the Necromancer as also “Ash Skills” as new utility to infuse Weapons with “Spectral Magic”, giving them this way spiritual powers from racial different ancestors

This would give the Necromancer also a long wished Melee Build that many peopel wish for under the immersion of them being the kind of “Dark Knight” then that would be played out like the counter to the Guardian.

I always found, that the Ritualist in GW1 was alsready totally obsolete and should have been merged from begin on with the Necromancer, because conceptually, both are the exact same profession – occultic summoners which summon the undead.
Spirits are undead, just without a body, it are just the souls that are still somehow bonded by feelings to the world of the living like pain, hatred, sorrow, love and so on, unable to go to the underworld (the mists)

Its the same way how Belinda stayed as a spirit at the place, where she got killed, because her strong love to her sister still bonded her to the world of of living and that actual place, being first able to rest in peace, until she was able to give her sister a last legacy to never forget her by fusing her soul with the Delaqua Family Blade, what is just something, that someone with Canthan history and knowledge about Spectral Magic can do…so I guess the family blood line from the Delaqua Family comes from Cantha and that their ancestors had some Necromancers and Ritualists among them, knowlege that gets teached from the parents to their children over the time over the centuries that passed until to the current timeline 251 years later.

Not is that only a sign of Character Progression in the Story, as Marjory uses the Sword from that Point on and not anymore her Dagger and Axe, in the same way, how Trahearne uses his Greatsword Caladbolg only from the moment on, where he receives it, as a part of his progression, weere he used before of that a different weapon.
Its now the second time that a necromancer receives in the game history a Greatsword, while we players are still unable to use them…

So I guess, once we get finally one day new useable weapons for our classes, hopefully in addition of Sub Classes, that Grestswords will be in my opinion surely among the weapons for Necromancers.

I could see this happening:
4 Necromancer Sub Classes, each gets an own additional unique Weapon unlocked:

Ritualist > Greatsword
Occultist > Torches (Theres even the Occultist Flame-Torch and yet necros cant use Torches oO, plus adding the change, that those Offhand Items can finally be used also in Main Hand, it makes no difference if I hold a Torch in the left or right hand!)
Witcher > Swords
Visionary > Maces

All this could work out so well ^^

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

Sorry, but no, I disagree.

This season of LS may be good, but it’s just story, a side-dish. The main course for me is WvW, sPvP, dungeons and World Bosses.
A well-developed Living Story is a good idea, but it doesn’t add anything new gameplay wise.
New events and mobs? Only in the new area.
Anything else? No. Just story (which, I repeat, is good but very far from enough).

Thank you for listening to our opinions.

Dalanor.5387:

sigh
A lot of us strictly mentioned that we know you have a dedicated team of ~70 (?) people for making LS content. The question that bothers everybody that what the heck the rest of the company do if you have 300+ employee? We get it there are a lot of art, design, audio, community, whatnot members but somewhere, someones doing something, right?

I thought about 20 devs were working on LS, not 70 o.O

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

Well…the story of GW2 is GREAT! The lore is fantastic! There is (almost feel like saying “was”) so much potential! But if I think about the way those are “told” to the player…One word that comes to my mind is “lackluster”. Another one is “pathetic”. And I am not complaining about the fact that I had to spend 600 gems to actualy play it (just…wow…).
If I want wo hear NPCs talk to each other I’d just stand at a random location and go afk. And not that it is bad enough to see some randoms NPCs having spears on land. No! This time there is a necro with a GS! This is so terrible! It is just another slap in the face…
And you ask if episodes of LW count as content to us. By deffinition it IS content.
But it sucks! Besides that…It is just not the kind of content many of us would like to see.
Oh…and for the “new stuff”…those two words feel so wrong here.
Question: Would so many people ask for new stuff if there were new stuff?
And after > two years…“stuff” is more than one or two little items. More than clipping armour sets. More than two tiny maps. More than anything that was added.

So…Yes LW episodes could count. But not this way.

So…There really isn’t more? That’s all? LW and ESL? This is this games direction?

Jandopo.2107:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

Sorry, but no, I disagree.

This season of LS may be good, but it’s just story, a side-dish. The main course for me is WvW, sPvP, dungeons and World Bosses.
A well-developed Living Story is a good idea, but it doesn’t add anything new gameplay wise.
New events and mobs? Only in the new area.
Anything else? No. Just story (which, I repeat, is good but very far from enough).

Thank you for listening to our opinions.

Agreed, I mean just look at how short the living story content is. Each update is about 2 hours long, if that. You get a new zone each season and like 8 hours of story content, two seasons a year so that’s two zones and 16 hours of content in a whole year.

Look at another game, to use an obvious example, look at WoW. They get an entire expansion every two years with vast quantities of content, quests, zones, monsters, items, increased level cap. They get multiple entire dungeons each with more content and gameplay in each one than any of our living world seasons have. Not only that, but in the time between expansions they still get a few content patches on top!

In the same period of time, we get 4 living story seasons with maybe 32 hours of story content and 4 zones. Maybe 10 new mobs and a few reskins.

I am really not convinced that the drip feeding of living world story content anywhere near makes up for the lack of expansions the game has.

Sure, your team is probably smaller and the game makes less money which goes some way to explaining things, but I really don’t want less content more frequently. I’d be happy to see no living world for 2 years followed by an expansion.

Jandopo.2107:

Dalanor.5387:

sigh
A lot of us strictly mentioned that we know you have a dedicated team of ~70 (?) people for making LS content. The question that bothers everybody that what the heck the rest of the company do if you have 300+ employee? We get it there are a lot of art, design, audio, community, whatnot members but somewhere, someones doing something, right?

I thought about 20 devs were working on LS, not 70 o.O

They merged the 4 LS teams when season 2 started.

Which became approximately 20 members total. I’m sure the other Devs are working on something else. Whatever those big projects in the background are.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

regardless of whether living world is large or small, saying living world is coming eventually has no meaning.

Living World can be as large as an added map, or as small as a cutscene. There is also no definition, or understanding what can or will be in living world.

Its like you ask where you husband is going, and he says “out”. yeah, its true, but it hasnt answered any questions or given you any idea what to expect. Point is, nobody knows what the games future is any more, other than living world which can be anything and nothing.

so yeah, living world is coming! = no real info
new proffesions are coming = info
new weapon types coming = info
new dynamic event chains = info
restructuring rewards = info

just to make it clear, if yall told us, in response to what is coming, “something is coming” people will be just as dissatisfied. When people say they want to know what type of things the future holds for gw2, they mean they actually want to know more than something is coming.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Which became approximately 20 members total. I’m sure the other Devs are working on something else. Whatever those big projects in the background are.

Than the situation is even worse.

The only goal that Anet is hitting right now is into their own. Over and over and over again.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

No.

Are you asking if a single questline each year and a mini-map each 6 months show some commitment ? How can you be this out of touch ? On the contrary, it’s scary that so little thing is done and show an alarming disengagement.

If you consider the LS this year as a so great dev of the game, it means that you didn’t work since launch (or since the 2013, or 2014) on stuff on larger scale ? It means that you have nothing great being worked on the back, big stuff and not some tiny things like collection ? So yes, if the LS is all you can do, it is not commitment by anet, it is disengagement.

I think most people have an issue with the extreme focus on the Living Story, rather than any other aspect of the game (GW2 has been out for over 2 years now. That’s a long time to go without significant updates such as new classes/skills/races/level cap increase/etc).

Too much emphasis here is being put on living story and potential spoilers to it, but I think a lot of us don’t care for LS details, and instead want development feature details.

When will we see new dungeons? When will be get a new race? When will we get some more skills/weapons/professions?

GW2 has such amazing potential, but with so little feature expansion and so much emphasis on the living story as a way to avoid expanding and adding of new features, it’s a bit disappointing (And let’s face it, the new map is just Dry Top MK II. It’s not new, just an existing system with a few changes and some WvW map mechanics)

If this game had a track record of producing enough content through the LS that satisfied the playerbase in general, then maybe. Maybe then, just knowing that they’re working on something would be enough. But for us to trust ArenaNet to produce the content that we want to see, they have to earn that trust, especially if they’re refusing to share anything about what’s coming down the road.

The community has not been satisfied with the content. The ones who are only interested in open-world PvE might be, but those of us who play for instanced content, PvP, WvW, etc are very dissatisfied with the content releases. These areas have seen little to no attention, and often in the form of temporary content that, as you know, caused a lot of frustration as well.

Because the previous content releases have been small and with a narrow focus, we don’t find much comfort in hearing that they’re still working on releases. Without some sort of communication to the contrary, all we can assume is “more of the same.”

I’ll quote some of my OP:

dlonie.6547:

My guild … had a lot of fun learning the original dungeons in the game, and about 10 months after launch, we had them down pat. Not really much challenge left to them after that point … we thought “Well, this is an MMO. Surely there will be new dungeons added as time goes on” and we waited. And waited. And waited. Nothing.

Not even a word about the possibility of new dungeons. One by one, my guild lost its core players as they got bored with the same content day after day. They stopped waiting and left for other games with higher content output. I didn’t give up hope and stuck around. Then, two years after launch, they let it slip in a gamescon interview: They aren’t working on new dungeons, and they have no plans to add more to the game.

I felt cheated. I spent more than a year waiting for content that they knew a lot of us wanted, but they knew it would never come. And we only found out because someone slipped up in an interview. To this day, we have no idea what they intend to add. New races? Professions? Opening up a new continent? More PvP maps? WvW improvements? We have no idea.

Several others have mentioned having similar experiences. Now, reread that, and ask yourself:

Gaile Gray.6029:

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

What I am personally missing is a kind vision or roadmap. I remember Colin talked about a certain type of roadmap in the thread where Mike O;Brien talked about communication. I never heard something again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Communicating-with-you/page/13#post4326939

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Brainstorm-Key-Discussion-Points/first#post4328367

Colin did not talk about a roadmap with dates. It was a more general map picturing what is important for the company in certain aspects of the game. I think such a map would help a lot. This idea is given up apparently in my eyes.

I am missing visions and some clarity. What is the LW for you, Arenanet, something like a small filler or a big tool to deliver are large quantity of content? Is the current amount of content (not story) the maximum the LW can carry? Could you implement things like new classes or weapons into the story of LW and deliver it via LW?

In my eyes Arenat does not transfer visions and clarity in many aspects but impressions. And these impressions can harm the future plans a lot. Many people have the impression LW is a failed concept that binds resources but is not able to deliver a large amount of content. This is burned-in very deep in many heads. It will be very hard to correct this impression.

Belenwyn.8674:

What I am personally missing is a kind vision or roadmap. I remember Colin talked about a certain type of roadmap in the thread where Mike O;Brien talked about communication. I never heard something again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Communicating-with-you/page/13#post4326939

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Brainstorm-Key-Discussion-Points/first#post4328367

Colin did not talk about a roadmap with dates. It was a more general map picturing what is important for the company in certain aspects of the game. I think such a map would help a lot. This idea is given up apparently in my eyes.

I just want to encourage everyone interested to read those posts. Gaile, this is what I meant by “bound and gagged”. Colin is basically saying “Yes, the problem is that we are forbidden to tell you enough to stay interested, but my hands are tied by the same policy.”

Which is my whole point with this post: That policy needs to go for the long-term health of the game.

Many people have the impression LW is a failed concept that binds resources but is not able to deliver a large amount of content. This is burned-in very deep in many heads. It will be very hard to correct this impression.

Very good summary. This is indeed the general consensus I hear from other long-time players. Giving us a clue as to what sorts of things LS plans provide would go a long way. Again, not story, but content.

Gulesave.5073:

I’d like to remind people that the LW isn’t just content, it’s a content-delivery mechanism. It can be used to introduce absolutely anything you want in the game. There is no reason to assume that the only things in the LW pipeline are PvE maps and instances.

I hear you, I really do. That’s exactly what I was telling myself a year ago.

The problem is that there is no reason to believe that there’s anything else in the pipeline, either. Knowing that would make the difference between GW2 being a game we are excited about, and one that we feel we’re wasting our time on. (again, by “we” I don’t mean every single player…just those who have expressed that feeling in this thread.)

I know some of you want regular content and expansions and for everyone at Anet to report to you on everything they’re doing like you’re personally their boss, but the secret is that you will always be disappointed if you go in with a sense of entitlement.

ArenaNet is not your employee. They do not answer to you.

Of course not. I don’t expect daily status reports, and I don’t need to feel that “they answer to me”. I merely want to know: Will we see new PvP maps/modes…ever? Will WvW see some love…ever? Can I expect a new dungeon system in the new territory at some point? Is there a reason for me to feel good about this game’s future, if open-world PvE and the LS achievement grind isn’t my thing?

Minimizing disappoint is a big part of that last item, but I will say that I believe they have over-corrected after their initial post-release openness turned back and bit them. They are so afraid of disappointing veteran players that they’ve forgotten promises are what bring new players in.

Exactly, and I’ll add that promises are what keep older players around, too. We need to have some idea as to what areas of the game are seeing development to know if we want to continuing logging in.

I agree 100% with the remainder of your post.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

I would say an honest road map would be appreciated. Even if that road map doesn’t sit well with players, if it’s honest it’s good for all involved because it’s the truth of where the game is heading. For example, if the roadmap came out and looked like this:

Guild Wars 2: First Half of the Year 2015 Road Map

• January-February: Conclusion of Living Story Season 2.

• March: Feature Patch

• March 31st-May 8th: WvW Tournament

• May 12th-June 22nd: Season 3 Beginning

That would be good to see. I am not saying I would be happy to not see an expansion in there. I wouldn’t be, but I would appreciate the honesty of the direction of the game and the information that this is the path the game is taking. I would be happy that as developers, your goals are to have me login a few hours a week because that is the type of content you are designing for this game.

If an expansion is coming, tell players an expansion is coming. No hype. No details until it’s ready, but give players that want long term content a reason to login.

dlonie.6547:

Many people have the impression LW is a failed concept that binds resources but is not able to deliver a large amount of content. This is burned-in very deep in many heads. It will be very hard to correct this impression.

Very good summary. This is indeed the general consensus I hear from other long-time players. Giving us a clue as to what sorts of things LS plans provide would go a long way. Again, not story, but content.

This reminds me the review by Angry Joe (relevant part from 1:05). Yeah it’s great if we have a nice story, flashy graphics and so on but this game is an MMO. You play the content. You play for fun or more specifically engagement. Even if you manage to do great content (you did, no doubt) after 2 years without any significant changes or releases with problematic “features” (cough fractal loot cough) it becomes stale day by day.

The other very relevant video is about the “noob effect” which couldn’t be more offensive as it is, but i highly suggest you Gaile to watch it and think about what it try to tell.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Which became approximately 20 members total. I’m sure the other Devs are working on something else. Whatever those big projects in the background are.

What do you mean ????
This is like a conspiracy since around 1 year.

There is no hidden super secret project running and A-Net isn’t announcing
anything because there isn’t something to announce.

GW2 was announced 5 years before to hype the crap out of it.

Even the argument it’s just 20 people working on living story isn’t holding anything.
Sure A-Net has 300+ employees but lets break this down.
- 20 guys living story
- 20 people for forum and PR
- CEO and department heads maybe 30
- 2 ground keeper
- 10 server maintenance
- 3 cleaning ladys
- 2 front desk ladys
- 12 dolyak sheppards
- 199 programmer for the gem store

Where do you get the idea someone is working on an expansion?

Gaile Gray.6029:

If so, then my sense is that you want to know more about the nuts and bolts.

• “Are you looking at XXX new feature?”
• “Do you intend to improve ABC functionality?”
• “Is ### working as intended, or is it bugged, or will you incorporate player feedback to change it?”

Naturally we want to know about these things.
Mostly the thing if it`s a bug or a faeture would be apreaciated.

We are also not talking about spoilers, but things we as players are actively play .

Story is a narrative vehicle to keep us in the world, which hopefully is engaging enough to keep players interested, but it is only part of the whole thing.

If you would say that you are working on an expansion, without going into details, people would rejoice.

If you would say feature XY is comming or being worked on. Like you would tell us your top 5 things you are actively working on at the moment, we would know what is on the table and what we could expect in the future.

Sure, there would be people who would be angry that their beloved feature is not being worked on, but you cannot please everyone (as always).

Right now everything is a step up from what we have right now, since that would be: Living story continues, some people work on something and we tell you stuff when it is done, while hosting some PvP and WvW stuff here and there

This is not really reassuring, more so in the timeframe we get these things.

The last feature pack might have been needed (debateable to this day), but so many features came out of left field that it just kept many scratch their head.

You are working on improving the game. We know that. What we want to know is in whcih direction you are heading.

I am very pleased of the direction of S2 so far, as we finaly get ingame rewards in terms of armor and weapons. This was sooo needed after the Gem-shop got flooded with these things.

People are very wary. People want to know which direction we are headed.

You are really doing good work so far with the recent updates, but I for once am really unsure on where the ship is going.

You went from an open approach to a very secluded hush hush way of conveying your intentions and while I do not believe you want to do us any bad, I wish we would get some things to keep us secure for the future and not only right before we hit the shore, getting a mail and a cigar, telling us to make the best of it.

btw. what about the dungeons? Rumor is they are off the table right now, while everyone is still praising the Molten Facility, the Aetherpath and even for a bit the Aetherblade HQ.
What about the redisgn of the old, so exploits won`t happen so much anymore, etc. ? Are they being worked on? Are they a priority?

What are your favourite cookies, will the frogs team up with the Hylecs when they take over LA and can the Frogszepter make me their king?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

So as not to impart too ‘biting’ a tone, please read the following in the voice of Trahearne.

I believe that most GW2 players, not all GW2 players, of course, as evidence has shown that some are, at least allegedly, quite happy to have content removed and/or puréed and/or reduced to depths of drudgery beyond the reach of the sturdiest Pact bathyscaphe, are starving for new content, and to these players Living World amounts to little more than a bowl of soggy nachos. Better than nothing, certainly, but not particularly satisfying.

I believe many GW2 players must surely wonder when, if not indeed, if, they may see the advent of new professions, new skills, new weapons, new playable races, new areas — that is, new areas that would require months of diligent exploration to fully explore.

Further, it seems inescapable that the scope of this ceaseless and as yet unanswered wondering must surely encompass fancies of the hypothetically possible delivery of mass quantities of new quests and missions, side stories, dungeons, mini-dungeons, pvp maps and modes, guild missions, fractals, wvw objectives, and other diverse and sundry things so many have wanted for what feels like an eternity, in one proverbial ‘fell swoop’, so to speak, though there exists no evidence, either circumstantial or conclusive, that any of these things are being seriously considered, as few, in any, GW2 players are privy to the table upon which such may — or may not — lay.

I think what people are getting at here is that LS is seeing as filler between what people really want, the balance and feature packs. I mean, these happen what? Twice a year? Adding a whole bunch of changes at once, rather than spread them out alongside the living story would seem like a better idea, such as once every one to three months.

Do you have to give out all the info on the feature? No. But give us more to speculate or offer feedback on.

Let’s look at the blog for Tuesdays patch:
“Log in next Tuesday, November 18, to experience the Tangled Paths release” along with the video that basically shows clips of the LS. The same with the previous patch (although we could tell there was a new zone. But that’s it. Imagine the buzz if somewhere in the Nov 4 trailer it said “defend pact bases and bolster defenses to prepare for the ultimate showdown, claim buried treasures, and defeat mord’s legendary champions”. Sure we saw a pact base under assault in the vid, but anyone could’ve just recgonized it as a normal defense event, not something that led to being bigger event overall. I mean, imagine if it was said like that:

" oh we need to defend the bases for a big event to happen. I wonder what it is? Maybe a dragon or something!" Instead we got: " yay a new zone with fighting….anything else?"

But with features, or new systems, if we can be given a better taste of what’s to come, we can get more excited and either speculate, or provide limited feedback. Though, in all honesty, the “hush hush super secret” policy over features (NOT story! Keep that under lock and key!) Just seems so…pointless…when other GAMES (not just MMOs) give previews, heads up, and yes even ptrs (not saying gw2 needs a ptr), on new features or gameplay, and they do fine.

I just get sad at times checking out gw2guru to see it hasn’t updated with anything significant in over a month at times >.>

Jaken.6801:

btw. what about the dungeons? Rumor is they are off the table right now, while everyone is still praising the Molten Facility, the Aetherpath and even for a bit the Aetherblade HQ.
What about the redisgn of the old, so exploits won`t happen so much anymore, etc. ? Are they being worked on? Are they a priority?

Unfortunately, it’s more than a rumor. They said “we have no plans for new dungeons at this time.” See the video here, around 4:15.

As for the future, all we know is this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Very-disappointing-news-for-you-guys/page/2#post4325481

Haven’t heard anything back on that, other than Regina swooping back through the dungeon forum a month or so later and locking the threads.

And my usual request: Let’s discuss the specifics of dungeons, etc in another thread, so this one stays on topic. They’ve been closing them quickly as they change topic lately, and that’s too much of an easy out

cracks whip

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

FIrst, living story is a small part of the game and it adds no depth to the gameplay of GW2. It certainly adds to story and lore, but those are finite things. People who don’t care about the story get bored and leave, people that care about the story get bored and take a break. SWTOR had the same exact problem, they focused on story and the rest of the game was a bland soulless shallow mess. So yes you guys keep adding to living story, however other portions of the game like WvW, Dungeons, SPvP, and game mechanics suffer. As for the feature patches they are largely QoL things that ultimately don’t add any depth to the game to keep people interested. The new player changes certainly don’t keep veterans playing, especially since the trait portion was a huge failure, see the trait thread. While QoL is important, it does not reinvigorate stagnant gameplay.

Secondly, no it doesn’t show commitment to adding new stuff. It shows commitment to adding new Living story and fluff. ArenaNet has shown time and time again that they aren’t willing to make major changes to the game. The players have garnered through CDI threads that large changes simply aren’t up for discussion, they have to be small and therefor inconsequential. Take the ranger cdi thread where everyone agreed that pets were the big problem and were basically shutdown from suggesting an overhaul. The only thing that came from WvW cdis is the colored commander tags that at best are a 2 week change and it took 1 year to get them and of course they were still implemented wrong until everyone complained. The condition system has needed overhauls since launch, but the devs are still discussing possible solutions 2+ years after the fact.

Thirdly, this isn’t most peoples first MMO. We know what to expect from a developer and ArenaNet simply isn’t delivering. They haven’t been since day 1. While other MMO’s might patch more infrequently they get more content, better mechanics, and faster balance. Look at FFXIV, since they’ve released in August 2013 they’ve decimated GW2 for content. Oh and they have an expansion coming out in the spring. I remember in vanilla wow getting 2 class overhauls every 3 months, where GW2 makes a handful of value changes for each class in 6 months. It’s not even say the game is balanced so that’s why we get such slow balance changes, most people would agree that a large portion of weapons, abilities, and traits are underpowered or downright useless.

The TLDR is simple. The game has stagnated long ago and ArenaNet doesn’t make changes that impact that at all. We get story patches and fluff, if you don’t like story patches and fluff then you’re SOL.

No Gaile, the LS is currently not enough. We were made a promise that the LS would give us expansion level content. 7 months later we still don’t have it or anything close to resembling expansion level content. Even if we strip away everything in a content except for maps, an expansion would be expected to have an entire region like Kryta, Shiverpeaks, or Ascalon (IE, 6-8 maps). Right now we’re sitting at 2 maps that are about half the size of other maps. So that’s about 1/8th of an expansion in 7 months? And expansions are usually about a year apart? If we don’t strip away everything else like skills, traits, professions, then you’re even farther behind.

I’m actually a fan of the LS. I like what is being tried with it. I don’t want to see it go away. But it is NOT giving us the content that was promised. If you’ve backtracked on that promise and no longer intend to give us that amount of content then you should tell us. Right now all the silence does is make it harder to have faith that good things will come.

On a side note, does anyone else have the feeling that ANet take a look on their metrics and see “Wow every player plays the LS, so it’s succesfull. Great, no expansion for them.” meanwhile everybody plays it just to do something else finally? It’s refreshing after doing something new, even if it’s badly implemented or just boring. A few hour worth of content is still something. I guess. Opinions? (don’t want to derail, just food for tought)

As quoted by Gaile: “You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right?”

Wow, lotta “Nopes” to that question Gaile. I’ll be the odd one out as usual and cast my vote as “Sorta.”

The deal is GW1 set expectations for a large Boxed Expansion at a rate of about one per year. Other games on the market re-enforced that expectation. Then, Living Story comes along and I thought “Great! Something to mess around with until the expansion drops!” Then at some point I had a terrible realization that LS was to replace the large Boxed Expansion. I was horrified to think that was the direction the game was going. As we’ve already beat Living Story to death I’m just summarize with it’s nice filler but nowhere near the same experience I was expecting. Living World isn’t well… Living.

That’s where the tension comes from: The gap between expectations and reality.

Even though Leah did a great job in the last drop it still doesn’t feel like we’re laying the foundation for a expansion much less delivering it. Cantha, Ebola Elona and Eye of the North all scratched that itch. More to the point, I was happy to pre-order them with real world money.

For me, that’s also part of the problem: Why won’t you take my money? Serious, I’ve run the numbers in my head thousands of times. Even at 50 bucks for Cantha you’d have roughly a million pre-orders in 48 hours. That’s 50 million dollars! On an announcement! At that point all these problems and snarky comments would go away.

However, continuing down the path of LS without any word of an expansion just re-enforces the sinking feeling that LS is it. Go back to the OP’s post: “I felt cheated. I spent more than a year waiting for content that they knew a lot of us wanted, but they knew it would never come.” I share this feeling and it isn’t going to go away until we get a traditional boxed expansion along the lines of the GW1.

Try a simple thought experiment: Cantha expansion is announced and 50 million is raised overnight. There is joy in Whoville. Or… Living Story is it and the game continues to bleed players until critical mass is lost. Not talking about it doesn’t change the fact that each player gets burned out on the current path and in time stops playing. It really is that simple. After two years it’s time for ArenaNet to face up to the fact that Living Story isn’t gonna cut it as a replacement.

Remember, Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

MFoy.3284:

Cantha, Ebola and Eye of the North all scratched that itch.

Please tell me that’s a typo…

Torsailr.8456:

MFoy.3284:

Cantha, Ebola and Eye of the North all scratched that itch.

Please tell me that’s a typo…

I was going to post just for this, too.

Torsailr.8456:

MFoy.3284:

Cantha, Ebola and Eye of the North all scratched that itch.

Please tell me that’s a typo…

I am quite sure. Otherwise he would have written “Cancer, Ebola…”

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

Do you play the Living Story updates yourself? How long does it take you to finish the provided content? What do you spend your time on the next 13 days till there’s a little more content? Does it still excite you after 2+ years?

These are honest questions, no trolling. I’m just curious whether or not you enjoy your own game.

To be fair Ls season 2 has been a huge improvement on season 1 specially with the 2 new areas released. I think it has been appreciated.

But I can’t understand the reason why the living story doesn’t introduce replayable dungeons and WvW content instead of being limited to something you only play once.

All the work that went into that last chapter mini-dungeon would have been better served going to make a repayable dungeon. Then the story mode of that dungeon could be the living story.

The new areas added longevity to the experience (and the design is beautiful), but so many other aspects of the game are neglected, specially competitive game modes (WvW? PvP? GvG?), guild support (Guild halls, Guild missions, Guild raids) and skill content (new skills? new traits? new fields? new boons? new weapon types? new classes? more build flexibility?).

Then all the content that has been removed doesn’t help the game survive. Sometimes when we’re bored we wished we could load up SAB once more, specially considering some of us spent real money to buy a continue coin.

So what I’m hearing then is that Living Story as a content delivery system isn’t necessarily a failed idea. It’s more that they haven’t delivered the type of content some of us want to see. I think it’s fair to say that more people would complain less about the Living Story as a concept if they stepped up their variety and amount? of content. If one thing has been communicated clearly about their plans, it’s that we are getting Living Story from here on out. So, shouldn’t we work that angle and suggest that they improve on it? If an idea doesn’t work out initially, you can scrap it or you can make it better. Some people just want to scrap it without considering the merits of fixing it.

On a related note, there was an interview done some time before the release of Echoes of the Past where one of the devs said they consulted with TV industry types on serialized content. I think there is a mindset that they are keeping with that is different from a lot of other mmos that is motivating them to keep all these future details so close to the vest. For example, in another recent interview:
" We asked if this half of the season way going to be another set of four releases and if that is what the studio is aiming for. Meelad Sadat, Head of PR at ArenaNet, jumped in to answer our question. He compared it to a movie, where if you know that there is only 10 minutes left in the movie it can clue you in to how and when the plot points are going to end instead of keeping the suspense."

From this statement, you can get the picture that their silence is a trend that is part of their artistic intent. At least, that’s what I get from it. I can see the value in it, and I can also see how some players are so frustrated with it since other mmos don’t take that sort of silence to the level Anet has.

Edit: Here is the article for reference http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35267 The statement about the consultation wasn’t from the linked interview, I forget which one it was. But the zam interview does have more than a few statements from Bobby Stein and Steven Waller where they clarify why they don’t talk a lot about what’s coming up in the story.

Ok, ok now you know why I’ve never been hired for my spelling. Elona it is then.

Or just maybe it was a cheap gag to see if folks really read this TL;DR stuff

Gaile Gray.6029:

…I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You have been a respected figure in the Guild Wars series for so many years now. I can at least speak for myself but I think I can speak out for others when I say we don’t want to lash out at you. We’re just very passionate about Guild Wars 2 and are sometimes confused and don’t understand why the game turns out the way it does.

Many of us also feel like we could help you all in a Quality Control capacity, because to us potential red flags seem obvious even when the idea is just in writing (I’m thinking back to certain aspects of the Feature Pack teaser pages). If two heads are better than one, aren’t thousands of heads all working together and trying to help you out much better still? That’s why we want some early warning about ideas you guys plan on implementing…

Gaile Gray.6029:

…The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? … it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

I’m actually one of the people who finds things to enjoy in Living Story and I’m not afraid to admit that. I feel like you made strong lore connections to GW1 in your last release and I think that remembering to do that is important to longtime fans.

The problem, as many have identified here, is that Living Story is a story that unfolds over time and adds set pieces. But in GW1 I collected skills like other people collect small digital monsters and I would spend literally hours at a time theorycrafting the perfect builds for the right jobs. As others have pointed out here, not only do weapons having set skills limit that, but in the few hundred years since Guild Wars 1 came out, it seems like Warriors forgot how to hold shortbows and Elementalists forgot how to hold swords. People like me who derive the most enjoyment from playing with entirely crazy builds made from lots of different skills, just for fun, definitely are feeling like GW1 handled that kind of gameplay better.

Living Story very much shows that you want to give something to the players. And to your minds, it shows a big commitment to that end. But to certain sections of the playerbase (including myself, although I really do like what Living Story gives me), it feels like you have your own direction and we don’t understand it. I guess if either traditional additions to an MMO or Living Story had to be cut, I’d rather see some new weapons/skills/races/professions than see what happens next every two weeks (with the same all of those things). Let me swim in a seemingly endless ocean of skill options and I will be happy. Hide them where easily confused players will never find them if your goal is not to overwhelm. But I’m splashing about in a tiny puddle of skills (with many stuck in tiny predefined weapon sets) as it stands right now!

I’m one of those people who loves GW2 and wants to see it be the best game it can be. And I know that means a lot of different things to a lot of different players. But certain things can be polarizing and leave longtime players feeling out in the cold.

Kveldulf.7605:

Well…the story of GW2 is GREAT! The lore is fantastic! There is (almost feel like saying “was”) so much potential! …

So…Yes LW episodes could count. But not this way.

So…There really isn’t more? That’s all? LW and ESL? This is this games direction?

Some of us are starting to feel like the “story is great” and “lore is fantastic” should perhaps be relegated to the past tense as well over at https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/My-Greatest-Fear-Plotline – because we have clearly identified ways in which the game’s lore and story no longer makes sense. While not everyone in the thread loved the old content, there seems to be nearly universal consensus that the way it is now leaves all scratching their heads. This is an example of a polarizing change that leaves old players feeling out in the cold, although it also makes it worse for new players as well.

I think the issue with Living Story is context. Looking at what you’re delivering, in a vacuum, yeah it’s easy to look and say “I don’t understand these fans, we are giving them stuff.” But when you step back and also look at those threads that identify longstanding problems (months, years old – and not the ones where it’s clear that the perceived “problem” is simply that Person A’s interests aren’t met when everyone else is fine) you start to see that, from a player perspective, Anet is marching to its own beat even if it feels like they are deaf to or ignoring basic bugfixes and necessary QoL for retaining players.

I really hope this post gives some insight. I feel like devs and players are speaking two different languages and I just want to help bridge that gap. Hope you don’t think I was trying to bite your head off <3 Gaile!

For me Season 1 got it right.. you had living story updates (nothing will top the Lions Arch battle) but you also had bold, large new game defining features.

Below are features that were added in end of 2012 – 2013, not content updates, like SAB and Tequatl, but game enhancing features that are new and not redesigns of mechanics or UI already in game -

LFG Tool
Costume Brawl
Fractals
Ascended Armour & Weapons
Laurels
Guesting (although redundant, it was still a new feature at the time)
Guild missions, merits and commendations
New PVP maps
WVW Experience and mastery lines
Custom arenas
WvW Traps
Achievement reward system
Wallet
WVW Seasons
Increased crafting levels
New skills

Below is a list for 2014..

PvP Reward Tracks
Megaserver
Additional Commander Tags

Let me be clear that I am listing what I consider to be features – SAB, Tequatl, EOTM, activities and the new zones introduced in recent update are all great additions, but for me they aren’t new features. The last feature update in September was severely lacking in NEW features, almost everything was redesigns of current systems (I am debating collections as a new feature, as they could be considered just a new set of achievements, in the same way a story update brings a new set of achievements).

Don’t get me wrong, I love the recent updates and the new zones kick kitten , but in 2013 there was a lot of new features that were exciting and bold.. especially guild missions, fractals, achievement rewards and WvW Exp and mastery.. these were strong additions that should receive more focus and development. Its new content like this that is the most exciting.

In 2013, you got it right, in 2014 you improved on story delivery at the expense of not growing the feature set of your game. You know the bullet points listed on the back of every game box as great game defining features? That list should grow continuously and I don’t feel in 2014 you have been able to add to it very much.

New content and new features are not the same thing, you need both.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Gulesave.5073:

Gaile was not asking whether the promise of more LW is sufficient to sate our desires for intel, just whether it counts.

Yes, this is correct. When I see comments like “there’s nothing new to do” or “we need fresh content” it just occurred to me to ask if you’re taking LW into account, if you see that as new content and pretty significant chunks of it, at that. (Admittedly, it may not be what you personally have requested, but if the statement is “there’s nothing new” that doesn’t seem quite right.)

Thanks everyone for not barking at me when I asked the question. Again, the question was not “is it enough?” I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world.

The world is static especially if you don’t care for the living story. The living story itself is phoned in content as far as I’m concerned.

Let me throw a question back. When for the last 3 months the same bad communication threads keep popping up don’t you think it is time to make real changes and no just posting more when under a gag order is not better communication, it is just more communication.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Gulesave.5073:

Gaile was not asking whether the promise of more LW is sufficient to sate our desires for intel, just whether it counts.

Yes, this is correct. When I see comments like “there’s nothing new to do” or “we need fresh content” it just occurred to me to ask if you’re taking LW into account, if you see that as new content and pretty significant chunks of it, at that. (Admittedly, it may not be what you personally have requested, but if the statement is “there’s nothing new” that doesn’t seem quite right.)

Thanks everyone for not barking at me when I asked the question. Again, the question was not “is it enough?” I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world.

I was under the impression that LS releases are a given thing for a while until you (ANet) decide to not make LS content anymore. So i would say nope, it doesn’t count since it’s acts as filler content between serious releases (feature packs, possible expansions) but the problem is that those are seriously lacking in stuff that improves gameplay in any way.

Feature packs were mostly QoL fixes (hence the name) and LS simply can’t put out meaningful content in it’s current form. What i mean as a PvE player it provides little to no replayability if you go through the story (it’s a one time thing) and done with achievements (one time too obviously).

WvW and especially sPvP are almost completely excluded from these updates, but these modes require completely different fixes, additions and overhauls which has nothing to do with the LS at all. Thats the reason why players from those gamemodes are frustrated because all they see is LS, LS and again, LS releases meanwhile the actuall target audience, the PvE players are neglected as well.

The other frustrating thing i see, but maybe it’s just a personal opinion, that the game is still really sPvP oriented with balance and promotions (e-sports, tournaments, etc.) meanwhile releasing PvE updates. What do you actually want? A PvP game with additional casual PvE elements or a great PvE game with casual PvP elements? Both can’t happen. Though i personally find the PvE aspect of the game more promising compared to the competitor games, but thats a different topic …

tl;dr: Living story on it’s own doesn’t cut it. The game and the playerbase needs additional and serious content updates on a regular (1-2 years) base to keep engaged.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Thanks everyone for not barking at me when I asked the question. Again, the question was not “is it enough?” I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world.

This is just an anecdote, but it says something about how some people react to the Living Story. I have two friends whom I play with at times. About a month or so after Season 2 launched, we started the story instances. We got done with the second one, which dumped us deeper in Dry Top. Rather than continue, we started figuring out Dry Top and doing events. We never resumed.

The story just didn’t grab us. It didn’t challenge three of us playing together. It didn’t make us use our brains. It seems (to me) that the only reason to complete it would be to see what happens. The first two instanced segments didn’t make me care enough to want to continue, and they didn’t present enough in the way of interesting gameplay in and of themselves. The zone is fun, the story felt like a chore.

So, for me (and likely for my friends), the Living World concept is great when it adds things like Dry Top and Silverwastes. The story aspect isn’t working out so well.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Gulesave.5073:

Gaile was not asking whether the promise of more LW is sufficient to sate our desires for intel, just whether it counts.

Yes, this is correct. When I see comments like “there’s nothing new to do” or “we need fresh content” it just occurred to me to ask if you’re taking LW into account, if you see that as new content and pretty significant chunks of it, at that. (Admittedly, it may not be what you personally have requested, but if the statement is “there’s nothing new” that doesn’t seem quite right.)

Thanks everyone for not barking at me when I asked the question. Again, the question was not “is it enough?” I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world.

My issue with the living world, in both season 1 and season 2, is that it doesn’t add much substance for the amount of effort that goes into it. It has been a poor allocation of resources development time.

Season 1 being temporary is arguably the worst decision you guys have ever made. All that effort and passion by the developers only to be removed after it was over. What a waste.

Robert Hrouda puts it best: "I had always hoped my last hurrah would be an epic dungeon that would stand the test of time, and provide entertainment for players to the very end… but instead it’s an instance that will only persist for two weeks, and then go away.”

Season 2 is permanent, but still doesn’t provide much substance. Months of effort creating these amazing maps and a much better story, for what, a few hours of play time?

You guys need to start looking at ways to get more value out of the content you create. It simply isn’t a good update model, or a good allocation of resources, to spend so much time and resources on something that only lasts players a few days, and to make make matters worse, this is the only content we have been receiving!

I hope you can see why players are so upset over this.

We have been waiting for a meal for such a long time now, yet all we keep getting is appetizers, and then we are told in an interview with the chef that you aren’t even cooking a meal, only more appetizers. Then the restaurant creates a policy where the workers are not allowed to speak about the meal or appetizers.

Has our meal even been started, or is it just taking a while to cook? Are you just going to keep throwing appetizers at us until we get fed up and leave? As customers at your restaurant this is something we would like to know, and the silence isn’t helping at all.

OK, well please allow me to return the favor and thank you for not barking at me for soap boxing outside the scope of the question. My bad.

As to " I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world." I gotta tell ya it’s a solid nope for me. It’s hard to quantify but the dynamic is off somehow.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Thanks everyone for not barking at me when I asked the question. Again, the question was not “is it enough?” I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world.

I like the living world as a concept. As a concept it’s beautiful and it’s potential goes beyond what most MMO’s are attempting. The execution of it however is not. You’ve given yourself a means of building the Prague Castle and instead your making sand castles.

As a method for delivering story content I think it’s doing good and while the quality of the story has been sub par, it is improving.

As a method of delivering lore it has felt a bit lacking but that also seems to be improving.

As a method for delivering maps it works well, but unless you’re going to give us a new map/sub map every release, it’s never going to work well.

As a method for delivering any other content it has entirely failed. The concept would work easily with the story and enable you to deliver new content in very organic ways. Only, you aren’t. It’s not that what you’ve done in this area is less than what we want, it’s that you haven’t done anything.

*Want a new set of traits to find? Stick it in the new maps.
*Want new skills? Maybe we find a new mentor that will teach us how to do it.
*New professions? We’re exploring new areas; we’re bound to find new ways of fighting Mordrem.
*New races? I’m sure we can meet new allies in the push west.

The concept of the living world is great!
The execution of the living world is lacking in every area except story fluff.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Gulesave.5073:

Gaile was not asking whether the promise of more LW is sufficient to sate our desires for intel, just whether it counts.

Yes, this is correct. When I see comments like “there’s nothing new to do” or “we need fresh content” it just occurred to me to ask if you’re taking LW into account, if you see that as new content and pretty significant chunks of it, at that. (Admittedly, it may not be what you personally have requested, but if the statement is “there’s nothing new” that doesn’t seem quite right.)

Thanks everyone for not barking at me when I asked the question. Again, the question was not “is it enough?” I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world.

It’s mostly the delivery and the distance between them. I personally think it is just too ambitious to believe you guys could deliver quality, mostly bug free content in 2 week intervals. Does it count? Sure, but as i’ve said in numerous threads now, you guys really still have some big house-cleaning tasks to do as well and those really just feel neglected. It’s troublesome also that we had and still have conversation about things we’ve been talking about since almost day one.

My personal take is that the LS is likely an extremely stressful process internally, one that would be better served to longer, more substantial releases, maybe once a month, leading up to a typical boxed expansion.

The crux however has been and continues to be the tight-lipped incarnation of any line of communications with players regarding a new course correction, since this clearly doesn’t seem to be working. People still play the game, but i can’t possibly imagine another 2 years of LS being the chuck of new content delivery.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Alerno — Taking what you have (and everyone else has) put on the table I do wonder something. I want to ask, and hope nobody will bite my head off here.

You mention wanting to know there will be more to the game. The new and continuing episodes of the Living World count towards that, right? The fact that players know there’s a team working on new content and features, and that there are releases on a regular basis? I fully understand that may not fulfill every desire, but it does show a continuing commitment to “new stuff” for us players, wouldn’t you agree?

Honestly, no. It’s wholly insufficient and inadequate for conveying the kind of information we would like regarding “new stuff”.

The regularity of the Living Story assures us that we’ll get more of the same: story content to fulfill a few hours worth of regular play and maybe a new map with meta events. We know we’ll get more open world PvE, but it doesn’t tell us about the attention other game modes are getting behind the scenes.

And one of our biggest fears as a community right now is that because open world PvE appears to be the focus, we think that maybe those other game modes aren’t getting any or very much attention. We’re afraid more effort is being poured into the Living story than those other areas.

As a community, we want to know that something is coming along in those other areas. We want to know that something is coming along to change up how we play on a regular basis and to give us more than a few hours worth of challenge (via WvW changes, PvP maps/modes, instanced PvE, new weapons, races, skills, whatever). The thing is, we DON’T know, and we can’t know if any of these things are on the way because we haven’t been told and the Living Story isn’t even related in the slightest.

That’s why we want more info about what is being worked on, to know that love is coming towards other parts of the game.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Gulesave.5073:

Gaile was not asking whether the promise of more LW is sufficient to sate our desires for intel, just whether it counts.

Yes, this is correct. When I see comments like “there’s nothing new to do” or “we need fresh content” it just occurred to me to ask if you’re taking LW into account, if you see that as new content and pretty significant chunks of it, at that. (Admittedly, it may not be what you personally have requested, but if the statement is “there’s nothing new” that doesn’t seem quite right.)

Thanks everyone for not barking at me when I asked the question. Again, the question was not “is it enough?” I really was pointing to it to ask for your impressions of the concept and the execution as continuing, new content in an ever-changing world.

I will speak only for myself here, because everyone wants something different from the game and from you. :-) Speaking to your first post here, I think providing information about the nuts and bolts is not only the most important thing to provide way ahead of time, it is the ONLY important thing to provide way ahead of time. Hearing a list of new features that are being discussed to implement is what makes me excited, even not knowing any specifics to it.

Silverwastes is one of the coolest concepts the game has ever done, and it shocks me how little hype was given for it. Guildmates that took time off for awhile and came back had heard nothing about it. They knew all about the overall plan to fight Mordremoth, had even heard about Glint’s lair, but they had no clue that there was this amazing new map to go along with it. It baffles me that Arenanet doesn’t seed this sort of information ahead of time.

I think what someone before said about Living Story hits the nail on the head. Having Season One as temporarily available content was a colossal misstep that was great fun and a fantastic concept, but probably damaged the game from a long-term perspective. The last six months have been a great course corrective, but the fact that the updates can’t be left in open world means that it feels like nothing is happening in long periods between updates. If we had heard that a Silverwastes style map was coming back in September, then all the whining about nothing happening would probably have been reduced. Moreso if we’d heard bits and pieces about what is on the schedule for longer.

As for whether it’s enough, I think that if what we got permanently over the last 5 months (2 maps with unique mechanics and replayable story chapters with achievements) were expanded to the previous 20 or so in terms of permanent content, nobody would be arguing there wasn’t enough new PvE content. The problem there lies almost exclusively in terms of having the content only be available for two weeks. My word, if the temporary dungeons and dungeon style content had stayed open and provided their own daily reward for completion, dungeoneers would be over the moon.