Guild Wars 2

Okay, I’ve whined about this several times already as replies in other threads, but I think it’s time I just make my own.

What happened to other races’ culture?

I never played the original GW (though I actually just started a few days ago, loving it so far) but I did keep an eye on GW2 for a year or so before release. I remember looking up lore on all the races, and settling on Norn because… 9 foot tall shapeshifting alcoholics that can’t decide if they’re vikings or native americans? Sign me up!

I looked up stuff about Jora, Svanir, the shiverpeaks, the Spirits of the Wild, and just fell in love! But it’s been close to 3 years now, and I feel like we never really got any new ‘stuff’ the way some other races did. Particularly humans.. of course. (Disclaimer: As a norn main I’m particularly talking about them, but really I think the other 3 races [charr, asura, sylvari] need a bit more love too.)

So what has come out since launch that fits the norn? Particular weapon sets or armor that looks cultural and belongs to them? Braham’s stuff (that my ranger can’t even use)? Maybe the arctic explorer outfit, kinda, even though that is more wintersday? The black wings backpack until you realize its kind of more human cultural? I was STOKED to see the raven and snow owl mail carrier, even though I know that is probably more because of GoT/Harry Potter.

Meanwhile, we see all kinds of releases catering to human culture and their Gods. That is fine, I know a lot of GW1 people appreciate the throwback, and so do I. But will we ever see back items or anything else that has to do with the Spirits of the Wild? The Charr legions? Sylvari Cycles? Asura at least got the spinal blades, but they still fall short in terms of cultural items released for them (haha get it? I’m hilarious.)

I’m really happy that all this dreamer’s stuff looks like it was made for sylvari, that is awesome, let’s keep it up! But when looking at my own race of choice, I just really see nothing. We have had plenty of plant-themed items come out for sylvari, “machine-ish” stuff that could make sense for asura and charr (though they still need a lot of love too)… but just nothing for norn. And then the absolute plethora for humans. I remember reading quite some time ago about a dev that said they were getting rid of cultural stuff, please let’s not. I don’t want our outfits to be pretty asian-themed dresses, or weapons that symbolize a human god. I want to be a NORN! Please Anet, I don’t wan’t want to be just a tall human anymore.

tldr; more stuff for other races!

Well, I know its not the answer you are necessarily looking for, but I suspect we’ll eventually see a Norn-expansion just like the Sylvari are now getting Heart of Thorns.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It is kind of what I’ve held on to. We will see more norn-themed items when it’s time for Jormag…

But when is that I wonder? Two years minimum assuming he is the next elder dragon we fight?

Just a quick note, Asuras have NOTHING to do with steampunk trash. Asuras are tied with geometrical stones and magic runes style.

So, basically, the same issue you are saying that exist on norns, does exist on asuras too. (Altough I think that there are as much norn’ish armors in games as it does for asuras, and both have some quite good matching culturally speaking).

Steampunk = High technology embased on vapor, usually themed on victorian age style.

Norn is very peculiar in the GW lore, while imo they have the most defined and detailed culture among all races (maybe even more than humans), but the origin and actual lore is nearly absent.

I suspect the order of events to go something along the lines of:

Zhaitan >

Mordremoth > Sylvari Story > opens up Maguuma Jungle > rediscovery of a Blood Stone?

Jormag > Norn Story > opens up Northern Shiverpeaks > Blood Stone in Shiverpeaks?

Primordus > Asura Story > opens up Central Transfer Chamber > missing Blood Stone?

Kralkatorrik > Charr Story > opens up Crystal Desert > missing Blood Stone? > Elona

Steve > Largos Story > opens up Unending Ocean > Cantha (one can always hope)

Just fun/hopeful speculation on my part though.

I see where the OP is coming from. As a Charr main, to say my options are limited is an euphemism. ( Don’t talk to me about Aetherblades stuff… it has nothing to do with Charr )

MauricioCezar.2673:

Just a quick note, Asuras have NOTHING to do with steampunk trash. Asuras are tied with geometrical stones and magic runes style.

So, basically, the same issue you are saying that exist on norns, does exist on asuras too. (Altough I think that there are as much norn’ish armors in games as it does for asuras, and both have some quite good matching culturally speaking).

Steampunk = High technology embased on vapor, usually themed on victorian age style.

I had mentioned in my OP but I’ll say again, I used norn as an example but I believe ALL non-human races could use some love. I know asura isn’t all steampunk and whatnot, but I guess what I meant is that some of those kinds of items look nice on them, but that is just my opinion.

Harak.8397:

I see where the OP is coming from. As a Charr main, to say my options are limited is an euphemism. ( Don’t talk to me about Aetherblades stuff… it has nothing to do with Charr )

lol okay I feel like I’ll have to edit my OP and take the steampunk thing out.. I used it as a loose adjective for I guess a “machinery” feel but I know it isn’t the perfect term, and nor was it added as “charr/asura cultural.”

Oh we poor, neglected Norn. Forever to be overlooked because we’re solitary adventurers, as opposed to the other races whose soldiers fight in formations, mere cogs in their machines. Forever to be condemned to an existence where it’s us against the world.

Just the way we like it.

The game is all about sylvari, charr and asura and you have to complain about god-themed back items?

Which game are you playing ? Granted the Sylvari have taken alot of space since game launch but when it comes to new armor and gear none of the others have gotten even half the work hours put in to them humans have.

I think this is a large part of why I got so tired of the LS despite liking Flame and Frost.

serenke.4806:

The game is all about sylvari, charr and asura and you have to complain about god-themed back items?

Armor wise the game is frankly mostly catered to human chars, human female mostly. Not saying you cant make a non human char that wears armor that reflects a specific race theme… but you gonna be very restricted with the parts… mostly to dungeon and cultural armor and even there it can be a kitten to get the “feel” in…looking specially at you medium charr cultural. Try to find a single gear on these things… I dare you lol.

Also the op asks for more “different” options that use more racial “traits” added to the game. Think braham’s armor… Sorta that way, just for all race “traits”

Strictly numbers-wise Anet is best off sticking to pretty dresses for human females. Humans are the basis for new skin designs. Most armors look like they’ve been taken from the human model and pulled out into something that might fit a norn or a catcow. Stretched textures, awkward models and nasty clipping issues abound.

Crossflip.4390:

Strictly numbers-wise Anet is best off sticking to pretty dresses for human females.

If that is their priority they might as well make games where playable characters are just attractive humanoids with a few novelty features so you can tell races apart. Tolerating lower standards for skins on the other races, in a game where a large part of progression is getting more/rarer skins, will only make them even less appealing.

Asking for cultural themed things is nice and i can understand the OP, but while half of the charr wear a neon coloured anime hairdo and the other half look like a kitten from your backyard the point is lost.

And the norn? Ridiculous moustaches everywhere (also in neon pink or cyan). Some pitch black armoured.

Basaltface.2786:

Armor wise the game is frankly mostly catered to human chars, human female mostly.

This is not true. Maybe there are more items that could look good but the actual number of working combinations is quite limited. I guess it’s still “the thing” to say that females get the better armors… (Even if it is not the case)

serenke.4806:

Asking for cultural themed things is nice and i can understand the OP, but while half of the charr wear a neon coloured anime hairdo and the other half look like a kitten from your backyard the point is lost.

And the norn? Ridiculous moustaches everywhere (also in neon pink or cyan). Some pitch black armoured.

Basaltface.2786:

Armor wise the game is frankly mostly catered to human chars, human female mostly.

This is not true. Maybe there are more items that could look good but the actual number of working combinations is quite limited. I guess it’s still “the thing” to say that females get the better armors… (Even if it is not the case)

Quality wise they certainly do. Crisp clear textures all the way, most of the time perfectly form fitting… I as a charr player get almost a joygasm when i get an armor with tail slot or a helmet that does not take my horns away or boots with 3 toe covering and helmets with ear holes. Well its my own fault for playing charr or asura you could say… but then again i like them way more then humans.

To be fair, most races have been having cultural problems since launch, including humans. Sure, most things that are added to the game tend to fit humans and there have been the occasional references to the other cultures from Guild Wars 1, but it’s still pretty token. Humans are just one giant vague super culture now, which detracts from something GW1 did really well, and it doesn’t really make much sense (especially with how completely we’re cut off from Elona and Cantha).

The reason humans have so much though is because GW1 was entirely about various human cultures. Aside from the Charr (who started as “always chaotic evil” hordes), the rest of the races weren’t invented until the end, and the different races came at the cost of deep and varied cultures.

Asura and Norn got hit especially hard in GW2, because what did define them, golems and shapeshifting, were relegated to gimmicky racial skills.

I’d agree that Norn got hit the hardest though. They were introduced as these heroic giants. Each Norn could take on a whole army all on their own, and each was a legend. Their “army” was just a handful of people. Now Norn are treated as just another race that is no more powerful than anyone else (this makes sense for gameplay, but is a problem for lore characters).

Seeing Norn soldiers casually in various armies contributing little more than anyone else has completely destroyed one of their most defining aspects. And the Norn need distinct defining aspects more than the rest of the races, since they do just look like large humans on the surface.

The other major problem they face deals with customization. Most Norn I see run around with some combination of armor or character customization that fails to have the nordic/celtic aspects that make the Norn distinct from the GW human cultures. A lot of people also tend to play small Norn or large humans, so there’s almost no difference between the two, especially when you consider the armor and character designs most people go with.

A female Norn shouldn’t look like a beauty queen, and a male Norn shouldn’t look like some shaved marine. They should look like Valkyries and vikings. Not saying people shouldn’t play what they want to, but those two designs seem way more popular than the berserker look the race is supposed to have, which has completely diluted the Norn culture.

Basaltface.2786:

serenke.4806:

The game is all about sylvari, charr and asura and you have to complain about god-themed back items?

Armor wise the game is frankly mostly catered to human chars, human female mostly. Not saying you cant make a non human char that wears armor that reflects a specific race theme… but you gonna be very restricted with the parts… mostly to dungeon and cultural armor and even there it can be a kitten to get the “feel” in…looking specially at you medium charr cultural. Try to find a single gear on these things… I dare you lol.

Also the op asks for more “different” options that use more racial “traits” added to the game. Think braham’s armor… Sorta that way, just for all race “traits”

Yeah this was mostly the point of my OP, perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. If you take into account all of the “new” (as in, after release) armors, weapons, and outfits… they tend to all cater to humans, kind of sylvari, and barely the other 3 races. Funny how often we see new threads pop up about the cultural NPC armor (we just got a new one too!), that would make some awesome cultural outfits imo. But hey, thats something people have wanted since release and still doesn’t seem to be happening.

Regarding the post about the crazy hair colors and styles, yes, that makes me sad too. But I guess play how you like to play, right?

LameFox.6349:

Crossflip.4390:

Strictly numbers-wise Anet is best off sticking to pretty dresses for human females.

If that is their priority they might as well make games where playable characters are just attractive humanoids with a few novelty features so you can tell races apart. Tolerating lower standards for skins on the other races, in a game where a large part of progression is getting more/rarer skins, will only make them even less appealing.

Seems they’re quite fine with that

Jokubas.4265:

To be fair, most races have been having cultural problems since launch, including humans. Sure, most things that are added to the game tend to fit humans and there have been the occasional references to the other cultures from Guild Wars 1, but it’s still pretty token. Humans are just one giant vague super culture now, which detracts from something GW1 did really well, and it doesn’t really make much sense (especially with how completely we’re cut off from Elona and Cantha).

The reason humans have so much though is because GW1 was entirely about various human cultures. Aside from the Charr (who started as “always chaotic evil” hordes), the rest of the races weren’t invented until the end, and the different races came at the cost of deep and varied cultures.

Asura and Norn got hit especially hard in GW2, because what did define them, golems and shapeshifting, were relegated to gimmicky racial skills.

I’d agree that Norn got hit the hardest though. They were introduced as these heroic giants. Each Norn could take on a whole army all on their own, and each was a legend. Their “army” was just a handful of people. Now Norn are treated as just another race that is no more powerful than anyone else (this makes sense for gameplay, but is a problem for lore characters).

Seeing Norn soldiers casually in various armies contributing little more than anyone else has completely destroyed one of their most defining aspects. And the Norn need distinct defining aspects more than the rest of the races, since they do just look like large humans on the surface.

The other major problem they face deals with customization. Most Norn I see run around with some combination of armor or character customization that fails to have the nordic/celtic aspects that make the Norn distinct from the GW human cultures. A lot of people also tend to play small Norn or large humans, so there’s almost no difference between the two, especially when you consider the armor and character designs most people go with.

A female Norn shouldn’t look like a beauty queen, and a male Norn shouldn’t look like some shaved marine. They should look like Valkyries and vikings. Not saying people shouldn’t play what they want to, but those two designs seem way more popular than the berserker look the race is supposed to have, which has completely diluted the Norn culture.

This is a great post. I can sympathize with what you mean with the human culture having to become all mish-mash now (though unfortunately that sounds like it is NCsoft’s doing and may never change, but I hope it does), and the way you describe norn summed up my thoughts well. Thank you.

Check it out, another human outfit and tech weapons! Woo!

:,(

Jokubas.4265:

I’d agree that Norn got hit the hardest though. They were introduced as these heroic giants. Each Norn could take on a whole army all on their own, and each was a legend. Their “army” was just a handful of people. Now Norn are treated as just another race that is no more powerful than anyone else (this makes sense for gameplay, but is a problem for lore characters).

Yeah, I think ANet made a pretty big mistake when they characterized the norn the way they did in Eye of the North. Those sorts of features were never going to make it through the gauntlet of game balance without being obliterated.

" 9 foot tall shapeshifting alcoholics that can’t decide if they’re vikings or native americans? Sign me up! "

Nice one OP… made me chuckle

Please!
All this non-human coming to Kryta and stealing our jobs. Now they want to impose their culture on us.
They all should go back to their homes!

Sorry, I’m not racist I just couldn’t resist this.
Anyway i agree with OP, all races need a little more attention. Whenever a new outfit comes is my human that get to be the model, because the other races i have they just don’t fit in anything really