Guild Wars 2

More and more do I see people using the same old non-arguments to shoot down requests or ideas from players whenever they suggest a certain feature to be added to GW2. The most common 2 non-arguments are:

“This isn’t WoW.”

or “GW2 doesn’t need that.”

One doesn’t have to look far on the forums to see these arguments contently pop up when people (for example) talk about mounts and request (more) mounts to be added to GW2. Certain people always jump those players with those same 2 non-arguments: “this isn’t WoW” and “GW2 doesn’t need mounts”.

We all know GW2 isn’t WoW. I don’t see the point in stating the obvious. That doesn’t mean we can’t request features that might perhaps be in WoW or other games. Games take ideas from other games all the time. Anet already took ideas and features from WoW and implemented those in GW2 and vice-versa. There is no reason why people shouldn’t request features that are present in other games and there is no reason to shoot these requests down with non-arguments like "this isn’t WoW’.

We all know that GW2 doesn’t specifically need mounts or other features that are often requested. However saying “GW2 doesn’t need that” is a horrible meaningless argument as well because technically GW2 doesn’t need anything aside from the core-mechanics and core-gameplay. GW2 doesn’t need mini-pets. GW2 doesn’t need legendaries. GW2 doesn’t need more outfits and GW2 most certainly doesn’t need a daily achievement overhaul. Yet GW2 has all that.
Just because GW2 doesn’t need a certain feature doesn’t mean the game won’t be better or more fun with it. GW2 doesn’t need mounts but it already has them (the broom and the carpet) and I’m sure the game would be more fun with more and cooler mounts added.

This isn’t another “please give us mounts” thread, I’m just using mounts as an example because it’s the most often requested feature that I see on the forum and it’s most often shot down with non-arguments like “this isn’t WoW” and “GW2 doesn’t need mounts”.

Please, next time a request thread comes up, please skip these non-arguments and get straight to the real arguments why a requested feature should or shouldn’t be added to GW2.

Thank you and merry Christmas.

For mounts, though, GW2 really doesn’t need them. They wouldn’t add anything, and the waypoint system makes travel far less tedious than mounts would. The maps were designed so that there is literally no use for mounts.

If the game doesn’t have a use for a requested feature, I would much rather see development time be used on something the game does need than something it has been built to eliminate the need for.

So yes, saying “GW2 doesn’t need X” is a poor argument if they stop there. The full argument is “GW2 doesn’t need X because Y, so development time/effort of X should instead be used for something the game does need.” And that is a very good argument.

The problem is that they’re all topics that are beaten to death with a stick already.

Ofcourse I agree that there are more important things for the devs to do than adding features that the game technically doesn’t need (such as fixing bugs and adding new playable content).

That being said, the devs who work on bug fixes and adding new playable content aren’t the same devs who add new outfits, gem store items and fun items. So saying “GW2 doesn’t need mounts but there are other things GW2 needs so Anet should focus on that” is not really a good counter argument against mounts either. While I get where you’re coming from and I agree, it’s just not how game development works. Different teams are responsible for different parts of the games and it’s entirely possible for Anet to add new gem store stuff without hindering or delaying bug fixes or other more important things.

No, but saying, for example “no mounts, I’d rather cooler enemies” would be something that the same devs would work on. Primarily those responsible for creating the models. Programming would still be a different set of Devs as AI and player UI are very different sets of programming., but the devs that would create the models for mounts would be better put to work designing and animating new enemies.

Those that would be working on designing a new Mount UI could instead work on improvements to other UI (such as re-designing the Wallet to allow Bandit Crests and Geodes to go there).

For any topic that someone says “GW2 doesn’t need X” to, there is most likely a better job for the same set of developers that would be required to develop X.

I just knew this would be a mounts thread. That’s hilarious. NAY! I say nay to mounts, and probably whatever else this was about. Nay, cause it’s a horse joke.

The thing is, GW2 advertised itself as being both for players who loved other MMO’s and people who hated other MMO’s. What the, “This isn’t WoW” arguments boil down to is, “I did not like feature X from game Y.” Whether you like it or not, what’s really being said is legitimate feedback.

When it comes to mounts, whether they get added or not, some people want them and some don’t. I happen to not want them. My argument is that there is currently an opportunity cost to speed buffs. Mounts as implemented in other games would circumvent this cost. If I thought mount lovers would accept mounts with no speed boost, I might reconsider, but I’m not that naive.

what exactly do you think can be accomplished by wasting developer time implementing mounts? what possible good would it do in this game? Please explain this to me. What is there to gain by adding mounts???

X T D.6458:

what exactly do you think can be accomplished by wasting developer time implementing mounts? what possible good would it do in this game? Please explain this to me. What is there to gain by adding mounts???

The same thing accomplished as making living story, aka nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t like mounts all that much especially since i like to look at my character and not have the mount constantly be in the way. But if i were to pick something that i can customize and progress my character horizontally vses a living story that can be finished in 10 minutes and forgotten after, i prefer the former.

I’d have to go with Drarnor on this one. While I applaud your use of sense in this thread, mounts is a horrible example. Mostly because the idea of mounts that people are requesting is absurdly unnecessary because the waypoint system works for fast travelling, mounts provide no combat and they’re extremely junky.

There are a lot of other things – such as minipets, outfits, armors or weapon skins – that players feel should be highly prioritized over a mount system for legitimate reasons. These things can actually improve your aesthetic game while still being used in combat situations. While I would certainly like to see mounts in the future as nothing else other than some broom or carpet that you pull out in town and ride around on like an idiot – it’s so far down the list of sensible requests that it’s not up for discussion (yet).

But really, I do enjoy your sense in disregarding their non-arguments. It’s nice to read that someone reads the sense in the trivialization of such additions and the “arguments” against the additions are as fake as a three dollar bill.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

This isn’t another “please give us mounts” thread, I’m just using mounts as an example because it’s the most often requested feature that I see on the forum and it’s most often shot down with non-arguments like “this isn’t WoW” and “GW2 doesn’t need mounts”.

I would say that is false premise or just a straight up lie. It is an obvious attempt to reintroduce a mount thread and circumvent the mount merge by pretending to introduce a new subject to hide that it is nothing than another mount thread. It is nothing more than another give us mounts thread.

Lifestealer.4910:

X T D.6458:

what exactly do you think can be accomplished by wasting developer time implementing mounts? what possible good would it do in this game? Please explain this to me. What is there to gain by adding mounts???

The same thing accomplished as making living story, aka nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t like mounts all that much especially since i like to look at my character and not have the mount constantly be in the way. But if i were to pick something that i can customize and progress my character horizontally vses a living story that can be finished in 10 minutes and forgotten after, i prefer the former.

Living story, like it or not adds content, maps, skins, advances lore and storyline, how do you compare that to something that would be so completely out of place in gw2 like mounts

#Forumfail2014.
This is my first mount troll bait thread because I was previously able to avoid this stupidity by going straight to the BLTC forums and avoiding general discussion.

But my 2 cents: mounts are superfluous. We got waypoints…..dont waste the devs time…

you’re basically asking people to use rational thought before they type what they want to type.. which, i highly doubt is going to stick
why even bring up wow, when ncsoft’s other titles all have mounts and housing
also, your argument for there already being mounts in game.. it’s actually just a potion
that’s like saying ‘we are practically on the doorstep of getting new races’ simply because there are costume brawl skritt..
i do however agree that there is nothing wrong with talking about wanted features..
this is a general forum and is infinitely underdeveloped compared to that of other games
i would rather people show up to a mounts thread, and scream “well i personally think it’s stupid and the game is cooler without it” than the continual ‘hey buddy.. this topic comes up a lot, so what i’m going to do is ignore your intentions entirely, try to get this topic locked deleted moved or simply spat upon while i shine my forum warrior badge’
this forum would be infinitely happier if they just stickied a mounts thread and a housing thread at the top of the general forum with a disclaimer saying it’s not a cdi, it’s for the fans, but it certainly isn’t a promise of content.. right now, i couldn’t even tell you where the mounts thread is.. also just using mounts as an example.. i think everyone gets the point
lastly, i totally disagree on your statement about achievements because with the layout of open world and this point in the games longevity it was a well needed overhaul

X T D.6458:

Lifestealer.4910:

X T D.6458:

what exactly do you think can be accomplished by wasting developer time implementing mounts? what possible good would it do in this game? Please explain this to me. What is there to gain by adding mounts???

The same thing accomplished as making living story, aka nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t like mounts all that much especially since i like to look at my character and not have the mount constantly be in the way. But if i were to pick something that i can customize and progress my character horizontally vses a living story that can be finished in 10 minutes and forgotten after, i prefer the former.

Living story, like it or not adds content, maps, skins, advances lore and storyline, how do you compare that to something that would be so completely out of place in gw2 like mounts

Most of the content, maps and skins can be added without a “living story” . As for advanced lore and storyline, i don’t play mmo for its story because they are all terribly written and gw 2 is no different.

DA: inquisition is out for anybody who actually wants a story and lore that is worth caring about.

X T D.6458:

What is there to gain by adding mounts???

Another source of revenue.

Not saying that I want to see mounts added but that is the bottom line.

Lifestealer.4910:

X T D.6458:

Lifestealer.4910:

X T D.6458:

what exactly do you think can be accomplished by wasting developer time implementing mounts? what possible good would it do in this game? Please explain this to me. What is there to gain by adding mounts???

The same thing accomplished as making living story, aka nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, i don’t like mounts all that much especially since i like to look at my character and not have the mount constantly be in the way. But if i were to pick something that i can customize and progress my character horizontally vses a living story that can be finished in 10 minutes and forgotten after, i prefer the former.

Living story, like it or not adds content, maps, skins, advances lore and storyline, how do you compare that to something that would be so completely out of place in gw2 like mounts

Most of the content, maps and skins can be added without a “living story” . As for advanced lore and storyline, i don’t play mmo for its story because they are all terribly written and gw 2 is no different.

DA: inquisition is out for anybody who actually wants a story and lore that is worth caring about.

Just because things can be added w/o a living story does not negate the practical purpose of having a living story, and just because you dont play for story, doesnt mean everyone else is the same, its always this me me me attitude, there is no practical reason to implement mounts here, again why is that so hard to understand.

you’re taking his statement out of context.. he was simply saying some people don’t feel living story has added a considerable amount to the game.. whereas, compare that to whatever else.. and to be blunt, i actually agree.. living story was horrible least year, and this year it was doing much better until these last few installments.. it leaves me with little hope for the next few chapters.. at this point, if arena net introduced mounts on january 13th instead of living story, i honestly wouldn’t feel this way or that about it..

Non-arguments? Heh. How cute. Just because you disagree with how people feel and why, in these cases, doesn’t make them invalid for it.

Ironically, “I don’t want it here because it won’t be cool” is as valid as “I want it here because it will be cool”.

Requested merge with https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mounts-14

After 1st sentence I knew that this thread will be about Mounts again.
Desperate people are desperate…

the hilarious part is this thread doesn’t have to be about mounts..
yet people make it about mounts and therefore it will be handled in the same manner it always is and therefore we’ll see this threads clone later this week

hoorraayy for progress – scarlet briar

It think it’s the part where there’s so many way point and it take so little time to get anywhere without mount.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/List-of-Common-Controversial-Forum-Topics/first#mounts

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mounts-14/page/12

This thread will likely be merged.

I think it’s just laziness, OP. It’s a lot easier to dismiss something and feel justified in doing so when one feels that they are on the side of the spoken authority on the matter, which often make it very incidentally convenient for not having to have things like explicable, sound reasons for bleating ‘no’ on infinite loop.

I think it let’s people feel like they’ve earned their gold star for the thread, to be the good little ,‘person that obviously understands the authority’s intentions’ to be like that.

Ever see how, between some siblings, there is sometimes one that makes a point of being mommy or daddy’s little parrot, often eager to tattle and often seeming to thirst for opportunity to be more obedient than any if their siblings?

I suspect there a lot of people like that that transfer that sort of approval-seeking to things beyond their parents when they get out into the world, digital though this part is.

Just a thought for the pondering, in any case!

And a mount without a speedbuff? Would that be a problem?

I know it would be ‘useless’, but it would rake some money in for Anet and my asura would look fabulous on it. :p

Kal Spiro.9745:

I just knew this would be a mounts thread. That’s hilarious. NAY! I say nay to mounts, and probably whatever else this was about. Nay, cause it’s a horse joke.

It’s funny, cause the OP’s post is based on a straw man.

butch.8136:

And a mount without a speedbuff? Would that be a problem?

I know it would be ‘useless’, but it would rake some money in for Anet and my asura would look fabulous on it. :p

There are travel items w/o speedbuffs etc.

Instead of crying loud about mounts which are the same as those travel items, how about simply ask Anet to make more of them?

Alright, I’m sorry I ‘cried loud’….

Anet: would you please make more travel items without speedbuffs… in the form of a mount?

butch.8136:

Alright, I’m sorry I ‘cried loud’….

Anet: would you please make more travel items without speedbuffs… in the form of a mount?

Neigh, or rather Nay!

X T D.6458:

What is there to gain by adding mounts???

Verisimilitude.

I was hoping this thread would be addressed to all the naysayers of the Living Story, or the new dailies, or pick your favorite popular thing to hate on, but it turned out to be so much worse. Mounts? Seriously? I’m impressed you even got me to type that word again after this topic has been discussed so much.

Mounts are nothing but clutter in a world with the ease of travel of waypoints, and if you didn’t notice, mounts are pretty clearly not in the interest of the developers. I’m a little glad you brought it up, though, because it’s the perfect example of something that a lot of people asked for on the forums, but will absolutely never happen, because it’s just objectively a bad idea to put mounts in GW2. Can you imagine the backlash? If mounts were added to this game, it would essentially look no different than any other generic WoW clone MMO from the last decade, and severely decrease the appeal of the game to people who want something different than that, which is exactly what GW2 has been marketed as this whole time.

Andred.1087:

I was hoping this thread would be addressed to all the naysayers of the Living Story, or the new dailies, or pick your favorite popular thing to hate on, but it turned out to be so much worse. Mounts? Seriously? I’m impressed you even got me to type that word again after this topic has been discussed so much.

Mounts are nothing but clutter in a world with the ease of travel of waypoints, and if you didn’t notice, mounts are pretty clearly not in the interest of the developers. I’m a little glad you brought it up, though, because it’s the perfect example of something that a lot of people asked for on the forums, but will absolutely never happen, because it’s just objectively a bad idea to put mounts in GW2. Can you imagine the backlash? If mounts were added to this game, it would essentially look no different than any other generic WoW clone MMO from the last decade, and severely decrease the appeal of the game to people who want something different than that, which is exactly what GW2 has been marketed as this whole time.

But there are already mounts in the game. We currently have a flying carpet, witches broom, the michanical scorpion, and the sonic drill. They are small and unintrusive, but you still ride on them which in my book makes them count as mounts.

If they added a moa to ride on I would pick one up

deadhorse.gif /15

simplesimon.2084:

Andred.1087:

I was hoping this thread would be addressed to all the naysayers of the Living Story, or the new dailies, or pick your favorite popular thing to hate on, but it turned out to be so much worse. Mounts? Seriously? I’m impressed you even got me to type that word again after this topic has been discussed so much.

Mounts are nothing but clutter in a world with the ease of travel of waypoints, and if you didn’t notice, mounts are pretty clearly not in the interest of the developers. I’m a little glad you brought it up, though, because it’s the perfect example of something that a lot of people asked for on the forums, but will absolutely never happen, because it’s just objectively a bad idea to put mounts in GW2. Can you imagine the backlash? If mounts were added to this game, it would essentially look no different than any other generic WoW clone MMO from the last decade, and severely decrease the appeal of the game to people who want something different than that, which is exactly what GW2 has been marketed as this whole time.

But there are already mounts in the game. We currently have a flying carpet, witches broom, the michanical scorpion, and the sonic drill. They are small and unintrusive, but you still ride on them which in my book makes them count as mounts.

If they added a moa to ride on I would pick one up

I, for one, think the decorative mount idea’s a good one. They don’t do anything other than look like a thing. I fail entirely to see why that would be problematic.

Speed increasing mounts? Nah, we can leave that off the table. The game wasn’t built with those in mind. Neither was it made with anything like flying mounts in mind.

But what the heck do froofy little decorative mounts that do nothing but look spiffy/pretty/whatever hurt?

Lishtenbird.2814:

Ironically, “I don’t want it here because it won’t be cool” is as valid as “I want it here because it will be cool”.

Requested merge with https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mounts-14

Except the difference in affirmatively wanting something doesnt deprive you of not having to have it. You and your ilk, on the other hand, want to dictate how other people enjoy their game, and the features they might have available to them.

By all means, dont buy a mount if they become available – then you will have gotten exactly what you want. meantime, try not to be such a jerk to people asking for what THEY want.

Andred.1087:

I was hoping this thread would be addressed to all the naysayers of the Living Story, or the new dailies, or pick your favorite popular thing to hate on, but it turned out to be so much worse. Mounts? Seriously? I’m impressed you even got me to type that word again after this topic has been discussed so much.

Mounts are nothing but clutter in a world with the ease of travel of waypoints, and if you didn’t notice, mounts are pretty clearly not in the interest of the developers. I’m a little glad you brought it up, though, because it’s the perfect example of something that a lot of people asked for on the forums, but will absolutely never happen, because it’s just objectively a bad idea to put mounts in GW2. Can you imagine the backlash? If mounts were added to this game, it would essentially look no different than any other generic WoW clone MMO from the last decade, and severely decrease the appeal of the game to people who want something different than that, which is exactly what GW2 has been marketed as this whole time.

It’s looking like that already. Another game ruined by the “Vision”™ of the shills in suits who only want to pump and dump the company. Mounts have nothing to do with the poor decisions being made, and the lack of features/investment in the game.

Frankly, I find the skills, traits, and a lot else with this game extremely limited, and when a half-decent game with spellbooks, consistent speed buffs, flying mounts, etc becomes available (and sure, I’d play WoW if it was FTP model and they’d quit screwing with the class trees all the time) I will most certainly dump this turkey.

There’s a lot of good ideas in this game, and the voice acting is stupendous – but the level of commitment has clearly dropped off, and they are just milking it now.

X T D.6458:

what exactly do you think can be accomplished by wasting developer time implementing mounts? what possible good would it do in this game? Please explain this to me. What is there to gain by adding mounts???

The same could be said about a lot of stuff currently available in the cash shop….

Mounts would serves the same purpose as all those other useless junk currently available there : to generate revenues.

And there is already some kind of mounts available : witch’s broomstick and flying carpet.

OP, I underestand what you’re getting at. Someone making a suggestion and 10 rabid fanbois jumping on it simply to trash the thread rather than providing any feedback.

Look, fanbois are going to be fanbois. No matter how logical a suggestion may be there’s going to be someone ready to blindly defend the game, or say you are QQing.

If you have a point to make then make it. Ignore any trolls you come across. I can’t tell you how many good player ideas Anet has actually implemented. I’ve had several of my posts eviscerated that have seen change materialized.

Since you mentioned mounts, I’d much prefer to see free waypoints. I like the waypoint system. I’d probabvly use it much more freely if I could well, “use it freely” :p The map is big and run speed is comparitvely slow.

See what I did there?

Free waypoints won’t happen because the game needs gold sinks, and waypoints are one of the best. I’ll admit I get to Lion’s Arch by hitting “B”, then going through a portal in WvW, but I don’t hesitate to waypoint somewhere otherwise because the cost isn’t high enough to care.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Free waypoints won’t happen because the game needs gold sinks, and waypoints are one of the best. I’ll admit I get to Lion’s Arch by hitting “B”, then going through a portal in WvW, but I don’t hesitate to waypoint somewhere otherwise because the cost isn’t high enough to care.

the same argument was made about repair costs ………… Now they are free and the sky isn’t falling. There’s plenty of gold sinks in this game. This would not disturb the economy.

I use the same go around to get to LA that you do. Once you are centeral its better. You actually make my point for me that they should either be reduced or free. Or why use the WvW go around?

Not many gold sinks, really. Just Waypoints and TP taxes. Those were the most effective anyway, because they didn’t punish players of lesser skill and be meaningless to better players, which armor repair costs did.

Dunno why people making such a big deal about mounts.
You can have them at 25% run speed, so swiftness is still better, a lot of classes have access to 25% run speed anyways.
Only allowed in outdoor pve zones, not allowed in wvw, spvp, dungeons, city hubs.
You don’t have to remove waypoints they’re still faster to travel around with, (another topic I don’t know why people complain about, the cost it’s next to nothing).

It opens a big area for Anet to make some money in the gem store as well as a heavy gold sink if they wanted, and if you think they don’t sell tell that to blizzard who make millions off just one mount. You can even make them themed like the monthly weapons that are released. It’s certainly a better area to make money in than mini’s.

You think seeing a mount will make you think the game is wowified? here’s a fyi wow isn’t the only game and certainly not the first game to have mounts. If you want GW2 to be like GW1, it’s too late that ship sailed long ago. At this point Anet is only in this to make money off the gem store and living story.