I honestly don’t know why this has never been brought up (or has it?), but let’s face it, we all know about those little tricks with shadowsteps to finish people the easy way (start the finisher animation -> hop away with shadowstep -> get back to opponent with another right when the animation is about to finish).
Arenanet, I ask you to make it so that all shadowstep type abilities break finisher casting. This is something that should have been fixed since the beginning.
Whether something is either wrong or right, someone will always complain about it.
Sorry, but that’s the mechanic. Instant utilities / steal don’t interrupt channels. If they did, you wouldn’t have a “precast cloak and dagger + steal”, or Ele’s doing a precast of churning earth + teleport to their poor victim, or mesmers… whatever the bloody hell that mesmers do.
It’s one of the only things spicing up the game. Don’t be a crybaby and try to get that little spice removed.
Sorry, but that’s the mechanic. Instant utilities / steal don’t interrupt channels. If they did, you wouldn’t have a “precast cloak and dagger + steal”, or Ele’s doing a precast of churning earth + teleport to their poor victim, or mesmers… whatever the bloody hell that mesmers do.
It’s one of the only things spicing up the game. Don’t be a crybaby and try to get that little spice removed.
^ This.
If a fantasy world requires you to wave a hand in a specific pattern to make earth erupt and you can teleport without waving the same hand in another pattern but (unlike dodging) blinking your eyes instead, then it makes perfect sense.
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Whether something is either wrong or right, someone will always complain about it.
Yea, this is obviously an unforeseen issue that gives the class an edge over others when finishing. I see this as an obvious yet overlooked bug, using shadowstep should break finishers as it is a channeling power.
“I am Evon Gnashblade and this message is acceptable to me.”
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
You see these as gimmicks, bugs that need to be fix. I see that as concepts and tricks that need to be learn and perfected in order to become better. Tricks that need to be recognize and counter.
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Yeah, it’s “balance” you’re asking for.
What’s that to do with anything?
I’d have termed it ‘counterplay’.
If that mechanic can completly negate the downed state (shadowstepping out of range), then it leaves no room for counterplay.
Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
I’m curious how people counter a stealth thief while downed with classes like Warrior, Necro and Engi.
Let alone ones that also teleport away in combo whilst channeling their stomp safely away. Which also renders AoE counters useless from most of the other classes.
Please, do tell me the counterplay. I’d love to hear it.
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Yeah, it’s “balance” you’re asking for.
What’s that to do with anything?
I’d have termed it ‘counterplay’.
If that mechanic can completly negate the downed state (shadowstepping out of range), then it leaves no room for counterplay.
But it doesn’t completely negate the downed state, it just moves out of range of the downed player. The stomp can still be prevented & the downed player still has opportunity to get up.
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Yeah, it’s “balance” you’re asking for.
What’s that to do with anything?
I’d have termed it ‘counterplay’.
If that mechanic can completly negate the downed state (shadowstepping out of range), then it leaves no room for counterplay.
But it doesn’t completely negate the downed state, it just moves out of range of the downed player. The stomp can still be prevented & the downed player still has opportunity to get up.
If your opponent is out of your downed skill range a millisecond before you are stomped, how are you supposed to counter that?
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
Stability/Invulnerability stomps can be countered using a downed movement skill. Same goes for Stealth stomps.
However, shadowstep stomps leave no room for counterplay, like TheDaiBish said.
Whether something is either wrong or right, someone will always complain about it.
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
Agreed. Ele’s can mistform stomp, Engi’s can Elixir stomp, stability stomps (as you’ve said).
IMO it’s not the way you can stomp people that’s stupid, it’s the downed mechanic itself. Also, If you’re 1v1, you’re not getting up from that downed state anyway and you’re just delaying the inevitable by seconds so it’s a moot point to complain about the way in which you are stomped.
[Zeus] Guild ~ Desolation. Not some silly muffin thing, stop stalking me Dhiania!
If I recall correctly, it was for this reason (or partly this reason) that the thief sword skill 3 was changed. The return now takes a full 1/2 second to cast, where it used to be instantaneous. One of the reasons cited by Karl (maybe it was Roy) during the live stream where they talked about these changes was being able to pop in, initiate a stomp and pop back out with 0 risk to the stomper. They wanted to change that; I would not be surprised if we saw tweaks to other such skills in regards to stomps in the future.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
And given how many tricks there are to secure a stomp, from Stability over Blind to Mist Form or Stealth I don’t see how Shadowstep is different.
Aside from Mist Form and the Engi Elixer (which i also don’t agree with), the others still leave you vulnerable in taking damage in other ways/sources. Even with an ally, unless you can revive fast enough (which would have to be immediate), there is no stopping those 3 from occurring.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Yeah, it’s “balance” you’re asking for.
What’s that to do with anything?
Exactly what it says – that classes who have significantly lower damage, mobility and defence received more tricks to finish classes who’re harder to kill in the first place. And that is the balance.
You should be content with the fact that someone is willing to use a 60+ second cooldown just to finish you off.
This. If you want to “counter” a shadowstep skill, make them use those skills before you’re downed. If you let them hold these skills for the entire fight (thus leaving them with 1 utility less or enough initiative) and got downed – it’s a L2P problem.
If I recall correctly, it was for this reason (or partly this reason) that the thief sword skill 3 was changed. The return now takes a full 1/2 second to cast, where it used to be instantaneous. One of the reasons cited by Karl (maybe it was Roy) during the live stream where they talked about these changes was being able to pop in, initiate a stomp and pop back out with 0 risk to the stomper. They wanted to change that; I would not be surprised if we saw tweaks to other such skills in regards to stomps in the future.
I don’t think that’s entirely necessary.
I get the change to the sword skill of the thief because that thing has virtually no cooldown (or very little, if you take initiative regeneration into account). Any other form of shodowstep/teleport mechanic has a longer cooldown. So, as I said, I don’t see the problem with those to be that extreme.
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you may keep them to rear new and interesting variants in your basement.
If I recall correctly, it was for this reason (or partly this reason) that the thief sword skill 3 was changed. The return now takes a full 1/2 second to cast, where it used to be instantaneous. One of the reasons cited by Karl (maybe it was Roy) during the live stream where they talked about these changes was being able to pop in, initiate a stomp and pop back out with 0 risk to the stomper. They wanted to change that; I would not be surprised if we saw tweaks to other such skills in regards to stomps in the future.
I don’t think that’s entirely necessary.
I get the change to the sword skill of the thief because that thing has virtually no cooldown (or very little, if you take initiative regeneration into account). Any other form of shodowstep/teleport mechanic has a longer cooldown. So, as I said, I don’t see the problem with those to be that extreme.
No, the others aren’t on the same level, which is also why I used the term ‘tweak.’ Minor adjustments, nothing earth shattering.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Yeah, it’s “balance” you’re asking for.
But a Mesmer can also teleport, can cause invisibility, can strip boons, increase attack spede, all WITH that same build. It is all NOT ABOUT the ‘zerker’ mentality. That is the issue. Players get stuck in the simplest mind set to get through a game, no experimentation is required.
Finishing should be interrupted if the target gets too far. I’m talking over 900 units.
But not if they simply use a shadowstep or teleport with no activation time.
For example, an elementalist using Lightning Flash to go behind a warrior that just used Hammer Toss. If their timing is right, the hammer won’t hit, and the finisher would end. And that would require skill, and would be fine.
Finishing is rather easy for those prepared for it, so counters against it won’t always be reliable. And different professions are better prepared against certain finishing tricks than others. So it’s better to play trying not to get downed in the first place.
SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!
Aside from Mist Form and the Engi Elixer (which i also don’t agree with), the others still leave you vulnerable in taking damage in other ways/sources. Even with an ally, unless you can revive fast enough (which would have to be immediate), there is no stopping those 3 from occurring.
Not true, a warrior could use stability and Endure Pain, so can also stomp without any risk of damage besides conditions.
moving yourself out of shadowstep position (vapor form, mesmer’s deception),
your teammates killing/interrupting the finisher in another place,
timing to interrupt them before/after they shadowstep,
forcing them to use those skills before you get downed.
It can more easily be countered if you have a necro simply throw down a fear mark on the downed player, even using shadowstep, you won’t get that stomp, but anyone with invulnerable/mist form/stability will.
[Zeus] Guild ~ Desolation. Not some silly muffin thing, stop stalking me Dhiania!
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Yeah, it’s “balance” you’re asking for.
What’s that to do with anything?
I’d have termed it ‘counterplay’.
If that mechanic can completly negate the downed state (shadowstepping out of range), then it leaves no room for counterplay.
But it doesn’t completely negate the downed state, it just moves out of range of the downed player. The stomp can still be prevented & the downed player still has opportunity to get up.
If your opponent is out of your downed skill range a millisecond before you are stomped, how are you supposed to counter that?
You can rally off another opponent, or your allies can interrupt them for you. It’s not a 1v1 game. If you are dueling, getting out of one stomp with a downed ability isn’t going to save you for the next one. Therefore you can only assume the downed state was put in the game for teamwork to begin with, and shadowstep stomps don’t negate that.
What I’m asking is for that type of skills to interrupt just finishers, not every skill, if that’s your concern. Finishing an enemy should require you to stay put in one place.
The way things are now, classes with shadowstep skills have an edge over others when finishing enemies in PvP/WvW.
All I’m asking for is balance.
Did you know that a full DPS-traited Mesmer with all phantasms up and doing everything he can provides as much damage as your meta axe-mace Warrior pushing 111111 on autoattack?
Yeah, it’s “balance” you’re asking for.
What’s that to do with anything?
I’d have termed it ‘counterplay’.
If that mechanic can completly negate the downed state (shadowstepping out of range), then it leaves no room for counterplay.
But it doesn’t completely negate the downed state, it just moves out of range of the downed player. The stomp can still be prevented & the downed player still has opportunity to get up.
If your opponent is out of your downed skill range a millisecond before you are stomped, how are you supposed to counter that?
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
Stability/Invulnerability stomps can be countered using a downed movement skill. Same goes for Stealth stomps.
However, shadowstep stomps leave no room for counterplay, like TheDaiBish said.
Ummm, Shadowstep stomps ARE in fact countered by a downed movement skill. The step brings you back where you started from, so if your target moves away you won’t be completing the stomp.
They are also marginally more difficult to pull off than standing over a target and popping invuln/stability, not to mention the thief is blowing a longish Cd that may be their only stun break and condition cleanse.
The sword 2 stomp was only a tacked-on reason for that nerf, the main reason was sword thieves had a spammable stun break/condition cleanse/reposition that had no possible counter due to being instant.
Consider to get the sword 2 stomp you had to have an enemy targeted out of range of IS start your stomp, hit IS, then port back. Because if you hit your IS target you broke the stomp. I would argue doing that in the middle of a fight is the definition of skillful play.
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
Stability/Invulnerability stomps can be countered using a downed movement skill. Same goes for Stealth stomps.
However, shadowstep stomps leave no room for counterplay, like TheDaiBish said.
You can’t interrupt a stability or invulnerability stomp. The only thing you can do is either invis or teleport away, which you could still do for a shadowstep stomp. And even then, the shadowstep stomper is still susceptible to CC from other players while stabilty and invulnerability stompers are immune. If you are complaining about not being able to save yourself from a stomp in a 1v1, you were already dead the second you went down.
I honestly don’t know why this has never been brought up (or has it?), but let’s face it, we all know about those little tricks with shadowsteps to finish people the easy way (start the finisher animation -> hop away with shadowstep -> get back to opponent with another right when the animation is about to finish).
Arenanet, I ask you to make it so that all shadowstep type abilities break finisher casting. This is something that should have been fixed since the beginning.
I am 100% against this. Tactics like shadowstepping, blinding, stability, etc. all add another layer to the skill involved in landing a stomp. Take this away and you have a situation where every stomp is incredibly predictable and one dimensional.
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
Stability/Invulnerability stomps can be countered using a downed movement skill. Same goes for Stealth stomps.
However, shadowstep stomps leave no room for counterplay, like TheDaiBish said.
You can’t interrupt a stability or invulnerability stomp. The only thing you can do is either invis or teleport away, which you could still do for a shadowstep stomp. And even then, the shadowstep stomper is still susceptible to CC from other players while stabilty and invulnerability stompers are immune. If you are complaining about not being able to save yourself from a stomp in a 1v1, you were already dead the second you went down.
You can certainly interrupt a stability or invulnerability stomp.
Stability can be stripped and both are countered by either stealth or teleporting away. A trickery thief can strip the stability and stun at the same time in a single steal.
For a good, full list of how to counter stomps or being stomped by a variety of classes, check out Killchained’s video playlist:
Classes that can shadowstep stomp don’t have easy access to stability/invulnerability. If you want shadowstep stomps out, then remove stability stomps or invulnerability stomps. Which I think would be a stupid change if it were to come out.
Stability/Invulnerability stomps can be countered using a downed movement skill. Same goes for Stealth stomps.
However, shadowstep stomps leave no room for counterplay, like TheDaiBish said.
You can’t interrupt a stability or invulnerability stomp. The only thing you can do is either invis or teleport away, which you could still do for a shadowstep stomp. And even then, the shadowstep stomper is still susceptible to CC from other players while stabilty and invulnerability stompers are immune. If you are complaining about not being able to save yourself from a stomp in a 1v1, you were already dead the second you went down.
You can certainly interrupt a stability or invulnerability stomp.
Stability can be stripped and both are countered by either stealth or teleporting away. A trickery thief can strip the stability and stun at the same time in a single steal.
For a good, full list of how to counter stomps or being stomped by a variety of classes, check out Killchained’s video playlist:
You cannot hit, let alone CC, someone who is invulnerable (ie. Mist Form, Elixir S, Distortion). The only counter would be to teleport or stealth, which is pretty much a universal counter. True, an ally may be able to assist in stopping a stability stomp if the boon was ripped, I will give you that. But how many times would an ally with boon ripping be near each time you go down? Also, what if the stomper had multiple boons? You cannot choose to rip specific boons, the prequisites to stop a stability stomp is far more demanding than that of stopping a shadowstep stomp.
OP was complaining that a shadowstep stomp is unbalanced. I beg to differ, invulnerability stomps can’t be stopped and stability stomps are more difficult to stop than shadowstep stomps. Stealth and teleporting are not valid arguements as they are both universal counters in all stomps. Again, if the complaint was because he died 1v1 and was shadowstep stomped, he was already dead the moment he went down. Had he faced any other class without shadowsteps, he would’ve still died.
If I recall correctly, it was for this reason (or partly this reason) that the thief sword skill 3 was changed. The return now takes a full 1/2 second to cast, where it used to be instantaneous. One of the reasons cited by Karl (maybe it was Roy) during the live stream where they talked about these changes was being able to pop in, initiate a stomp and pop back out with 0 risk to the stomper. They wanted to change that; I would not be surprised if we saw tweaks to other such skills in regards to stomps in the future.
Sword 2 is the shadow step. I kind of recall the purpose being the way sword 2 actually acts when stomping, the skill itself does all the work once a stomp began.
“Shadow step” is different in that the player has to do all the work in targeting a destination, spend the longer cd, not to mention just having the skill on your bar.
No different than other classes spending utility slots and then using those slots when stomping. Stability, aegis, mistform, elixir s all pretty much do the same thing. Far more thieves blind stomp imo. One thing to consider, all of these forms are pretty much guaranteed unless you are helped by team members. Sure you may mist/vanish/teleport in some cases, but that just delays the inevitable.
but then warriors using stability to cast the stomp would have to be made impossible too since its just a utility that gives them savestomp vs guardians/engis/necros/warriors
and for thief its the same
just 1 utility on even longer cooldown!
i dont see the problem
every class has its advantages vs certain classes for finishing
Most of the time if you time it well enough, you can interrupt a shadowstep finish, also, any class porting away needs to use powerful abilities which can be used offensively or defensively and have significant cooldowns. Mesmers and guardians need to use two abilities to teleport finish, as mentioned by others these classes are more susceptible than others when simply face tanking, so in my opinion it’s not out of balance, it’s a large sacrifice to ensure you guarantee a finisher. In smaller fights countering a blind field is a lot harder than a port stomp.
No counterplay to shadowstep stomps? Wot? You have Line and Ring of Warding from guardians, Static Field from eles, Reaper’s Mark and Spectral Wall from necros. All of them CC the player shadowstepping through them if they don’t have stability, which is usually the case. It’s much harder to counter stability stomps.
