To waypoint or not to WP
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event#Event_scaling
“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.”
That being said, it will usually take longer for someone (or a couple of people) in combat to rez a dead person than it would for that dead person to waypoint and run back.
(edited by RoseofGilead.8907)
To be fair it doesn’t really matter. A dead player is not helping in anyway, shape or form. They are however a hindrance in the fact that they become an interactable object that takes presidence over other objects or downed (not dead) that may help in the immediate area.
In other words…..WP and stop being a lazy cheapskate.
Serenity now~Insanity later
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/26vke4/boss_blitz_scaling_revelead/ is the only legit research I’ve seen. It suggests that dead players count.
The information on the wiki is based on very old information. Scaling was changed at some point during season 1 due to zergs being able to instantly kill bosses before they actually scaled. Originally, you didn’t count towards scaling until you dealt damage while in the event’s area. To fix that, they simply made all players within the area count.
Thanks. That’s pretty darned solid.
To your second paragraph, that’s true, except when the distance to the nearest uncontested WP is long.
Thanks. That’s pretty darned solid.
To your second paragraph, that’s true, except when the distance to the nearest uncontested WP is long.
It’s a judgment call. Unless it takes you much longer to walk back than to get revived, it’s more considerate to walk back.
Like with Golem Mk II, just walk.
Tequatl, just walk.
Vinewrath? Not quite as sure. Might depend on which skritt tunnels are active.
But yeah, most of the time, do yourself and those around you a favor and waypoint. Your corpse may not scale the event, but getting 1-4 people to stop DPS to rez you isn’t a good thing.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
Basically, ALWAYS WP WHEN DEAD*.
*There is an acceptable exception, which is that if the boss is VERY close to dying, fine, wait for a rez after the battle, but not if the enemy is going to take another 30+ seconds to die, and especially if you’re dead right in the middle of the action.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/26vke4/boss_blitz_scaling_revelead/ is the only legit research I’ve seen. It suggests that dead players count.
The information on the wiki is based on very old information. Scaling was changed at some point during season 1 due to zergs being able to instantly kill bosses before they actually scaled. Originally, you didn’t count towards scaling until you dealt damage while in the event’s area. To fix that, they simply made all players within the area count.
That entry was checked (and kept) less than a month ago.
I don’t want to hear opinions. I want facts. I already know there’s a large contingent who says “always WP when dead”.
To me, it depends on 2 factors:
- Which is faster: to rez vs. to WP and run back? (Must remember that when rezzing, one other person is out of action. Also, the scaling change due to being dead probably doesn’t happen instantly. So, we probably should double-count the time the person rezzing is out of action.)
- Are there mitigating factors? (For instance, it’s nearly impossible to rez someone in the Hidden Depths. Rezzing is difficult against some bosses, too, because you can get knocked around, downed, or even killed yourself.)
This doesn’t seem like it would be all that hard to test for a reasonably coordinated guild.
1. Find a reasonably tough champ that is relatively out of the way so that nobody is likely to mess with him (ideally with some good one-shot abilities). Bring at least five peak-DPS players who are assured to be able to take the boss out well, and then a dozen or two whatevers. 2. Approach the boss, give him time to scale. Everyone tags him, again give him a little time. 3. Then let him kill everyone but the 5 DPSers, and everyone stays on the ground. Note the TTK. 4. Then repeat, only everyone WPs out when they die and stays well away from the fight (obviously if they ran back it would die faster but that skews the results).
If the TTKs are close, then dead is dead. If the latter one is noticeably faster, then WPing is absolutely necessary, but even if it’s not, it’s still considerate if just to avoid screen clutter.
For science!
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I just made the run: It takes 1:35 to run from the north gate in SW to where the kidney guy stands.
Therefore, if it takes less than 62 seconds to rez someone, it’s more profitable (for the team) to rez. Longer = WP and run.
But, that’s probably the longest possible run in the game outside of fractals. Normal situations would seem to take less time to run (the aforementioned IG2, for instance).
Does anybody know how long it takes to rez someone?
I just made the run: It takes 1:35 to run from the north gate in SW to where the kidney guy stands.
Therefore, if it takes less than 62 seconds to rez someone, it’s more profitable (for the team) to rez. Longer = WP and run.
But, that’s probably the longest possible run in the game outside of fractals. Normal situations would seem to take less time to run (the aforementioned IG2, for instance).
Does anybody know how long it takes to rez someone?
For VW, you’re under time restrictions. You lose DPS and time when reviving people from being dead.
Does anybody know how long it takes to rez someone?
I believe that’s dependent on how much HP they have….but I have no clue and that’s just a complete and total guess.
For VW, you’re under time restrictions. You lose DPS and time when reviving people from being dead.
You also lose the dead guy’s DPS, at least for as long as the down-scaling takes.
For VW, you’re under time restrictions. You lose DPS and time when reviving people from being dead.
You also lose the dead guy’s DPS, at least for as long as the down-scaling takes.
Yeah and now you lose another player’s DPS if they revive them for an event that has time restrictions.
So, what really matters is the time to rez vs. the time for the scaling to catch up. Unfortunately, we would need ANet to tell us how long scaling takes.
Please give us a link, Stompy. Search doesn’t see anything called “dps meter” (except your post here).
So, the bottom line is that unless there is a close waypoint, or there are other circumstances, it’s always better to rez your comrades.
“Close” = time taken to walk back is less than it takes to rez someone.
This principle was illustrated in a huge way in a recent VW. At south, everybody was rezzing away. We succeeded by over a minute.
The other two teams were both constantly telling people to waypoint out, and they both failed.
South succeeded, again, with everybody rezzing away throughout the battle. Unfortunately, we didn’t get a 3rd chance.
So, the bottom line is that unless there is a close waypoint, or there are other circumstances, it’s always better to rez your comrades.
Nope. If they are downed, I keep a eye open for that and revive them right away if possible. If not possible and they die, they need to WP out, period. Only time I don’t think them to be a waste of character slot is if it’s the last sliver of life in the event such as with a grenth assault vs. high priest phase.
But no one listens, so failure happens sometimes when about the only one left is my d/d stealth thief dancing around 30 player corpses that won’t wp out. Sometimes I can pull it off, sometimes I cant. Though I’m better off just soloing the priest from the start with no one around.
The only place it’s best to not tap out is in wvw. Bout’ it.
(edited by Daywolf.2630)
So, the bottom line is that unless there is a close waypoint, or there are other circumstances, it’s always better to rez your comrades.
Nope. If they are downed, I keep a eye open for that and revive them right away if possible. If not possible and they die, they need to WP out, period. Only time I don’t think them to be a waste of character slot is if it’s the last sliver of life in the event such as with a grenth assault vs. high priest phase.
But no one listens, so failure happens sometimes when about the only one left is my d/d stealth thief dancing around 30 player corpses that won’t wp out. Sometimes I can pull it off, sometimes I cant. Though I’m better off just soloing the priest from the start with no one around.
The only place it’s best to not tap out is in wvw. Bout’ it.
Also the only place with forced spawn.
So, the bottom line is that unless there is a close waypoint, or there are other circumstances, it’s always better to rez your comrades.
“Close” = time taken to walk back is less than it takes to rez someone.
This principle was illustrated in a huge way in a recent VW. At south, everybody was rezzing away. We succeeded by over a minute.
The other two teams were both constantly telling people to waypoint out, and they both failed.
South succeeded, again, with everybody rezzing away throughout the battle. Unfortunately, we didn’t get a 3rd chance.
Yea good mesure there maybe you were 80 people the other lanes were 20/20 so you dident have problem with rezing and dpsing
Edit
Always alot more people in bottom vs middle and top lanes.
I think often people spend so much energy arguing about this that it defeats the main goal, which is a successful run. All that “discussion” (by those pro or those con) means that folks aren’t focusing on the battle or on helping those still present to focus.
IMO, vinewrath succeeds when “enough” people know the mechanics; it fails when too few do. I’ve been in plenty of south|middle|north attempts that succeeded with 4/5 of the characters dead and failed a few with most everyone up (although some lanes are prone to failure/death going together). Largely, this is also true for tequatl and other runs where “wp if dead” is a common cry in /map.
I think we get fixated on “WP if dead” because it’s the easiest thing to explain during combat and it’s “obvious” when people are dead. But that doesn’t mean it’s the difference between a good run and a bad one.
(Full disclosure: I do waypoint if dead, unless very little time remains and I’ll sometimes link the nearest waypoints to make it easy for others to do so, only if those calling for “wp if dead” aren’t including the link.)
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
I think often people spend so much energy arguing about this that it defeats the main goal, which is a successful run. All that “discussion” (by those pro or those con) means that folks aren’t focusing on the battle or on helping those still present to focus.
IMO, vinewrath succeeds when “enough” people know the mechanics; it fails when too few do. I’ve been in plenty of south|middle|north attempts that succeeded with 4/5 of the characters dead and failed a few with most everyone up (although some lanes are prone to failure/death going together). Largely, this is also true for tequatl and other runs where “wp if dead” is a common cry in /map.
I think we get fixated on “WP if dead” because it’s the easiest thing to explain during combat and it’s “obvious” when people are dead. But that doesn’t mean it’s the difference between a good run and a bad one.
(Full disclosure: I do waypoint if dead, unless very little time remains and I’ll sometimes link the nearest waypoints to make it easy for others to do so, only if those calling for “wp if dead” aren’t including the link.)
I would prefer to go with “don’t die” but you know how that is going to come across…
I just made the run: It takes 1:35 to run from the north gate in SW to where the kidney guy stands.
Therefore, if it takes less than 62 seconds to rez someone, it’s more profitable (for the team) to rez. Longer = WP and run.
But, that’s probably the longest possible run in the game outside of fractals. Normal situations would seem to take less time to run (the aforementioned IG2, for instance).
Does anybody know how long it takes to rez someone?
For VW, you’re under time restrictions. You lose DPS and time when reviving people from being dead.
And you’ll lose DPS for the rest of the battle if you WP out, as you cannot return.
So, the bottom line is that unless there is a close waypoint, or there are other circumstances, it’s always better to rez your comrades.
Nope. If they are downed, I keep a eye open for that and revive them right away if possible. If not possible and they die, they need to WP out, period. Only time I don’t think them to be a waste of character slot is if it’s the last sliver of life in the event such as with a grenth assault vs. high priest phase.
But no one listens, so failure happens sometimes when about the only one left is my d/d stealth thief dancing around 30 player corpses that won’t wp out. Sometimes I can pull it off, sometimes I cant. Though I’m better off just soloing the priest from the start with no one around.
The only place it’s best to not tap out is in wvw. Bout’ it.
Ahh, so I see that you are claiming you can beat the boss by yourself, once those other 30 waypoint out.
Thank you for making my point:
reduction ad absurdum
If it’s always better to WP out when dead, then logically, teams should have an easier and easier time of defeating the boss as they leave. Reducing to the absurd, when the last character dies, the boss should be really easy.
Since that clearly can’t be true, the premise is falsified. It then follows that rezzing your colleagues is best. (Although, as stated above, there may be timing problems, like really close but still active waypoints.)
I think often people spend so much energy arguing about this that it defeats the main goal, which is a successful run. All that “discussion” (by those pro or those con) means that folks aren’t focusing on the battle or on helping those still present to focus.
IMO, vinewrath succeeds when “enough” people know the mechanics; it fails when too few do. I’ve been in plenty of south|middle|north attempts that succeeded with 4/5 of the characters dead and failed a few with most everyone up (although some lanes are prone to failure/death going together). Largely, this is also true for tequatl and other runs where “wp if dead” is a common cry in /map.
I think we get fixated on “WP if dead” because it’s the easiest thing to explain during combat and it’s “obvious” when people are dead. But that doesn’t mean it’s the difference between a good run and a bad one.
(Full disclosure: I do waypoint if dead, unless very little time remains and I’ll sometimes link the nearest waypoints to make it easy for others to do so, only if those calling for “wp if dead” aren’t including the link.)
The problem is that there’s frequently a contingent of people demanding that others WP out during combat. So, in addition to getting the math wrong, they’re wasting precious damage points by typing instead of fighting. That’s why I start this thread, and why it’s important:
- it’s flat wrong, and
- it wastes time arguing or even speaking about it in-game.
And you’ll lose DPS for the rest of the battle if you WP out, as you cannot return.
My point exactly. At least for VW.
For other bosses, IF there’s a close uncontested waypoint, it might be feasible to measure the time spent running back against the down-time that a second character loses while rezzing you.
Folks, this is GW2, not WoW or any other MMO. One of GW2’s guiding philosophies is that you are rewarded and not penalized for helping others. It would be diametrically opposed to that goal for it to make sense to not rez people.
That’s why they disabled the ability to WP in dungeons when defeated: they don’t WANT us gaming the system (if it’s even mathematically possible). They want the friendliest MMO on the market. It would be crazy for them to reward unfriendly behavior (like, ignoring dead people until they WP out).
The issue that was addressed above is the only issue here that matters between a good or bad run.
Whether the dead scale the boss or not the people rezzing certainly count towards scaling and are not doing their share of the DPS. I believe that the dead don’t count towards scaling based on…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event#Event_scaling
“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.”
That being said, it will usually take longer for someone (or a couple of people) in combat to rez a dead person than it would for that dead person to waypoint and run back.
this was the second post in this thread.
you are in the way when you dont WP when dead. But thats it.
Folks, this is GW2, not WoW or any other MMO. One of GW2’s guiding philosophies is that you are rewarded and not penalized for helping others. It would be diametrically opposed to that goal for it to make sense to not rez people.
That’s why they disabled the ability to WP in dungeons when defeated: they don’t WANT us gaming the system (if it’s even mathematically possible). They want the friendliest MMO on the market. It would be crazy for them to reward unfriendly behavior (like, ignoring dead people until they WP out).
No. Totaly wrong conclusion.
When the game released people were able to waypoint during combat, even in dungeons.
This resulted in exactly 1 tactic = die, respawn, run in, die, respawn, run in, die, respawn, run in… I’m not even kidding, that’s how I finished nearly all of the dungeon paths when the game came out.
They then rebalanced dungeons and changed the respawn machanic. This had NOTHING to do with friendliness.
On topic and given this information: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/26vke4/boss_blitz_scaling_revelead/
- more than 4 players start scaling the boss up. some bosses require a minimum amount of players to complete due to time restraints (they basically require a minimum amount of dps and since they don’t scale with 100% base life, more players doing damage increase the kill speed)
- down and upsacling is almost instant
- downed players can (depending on difficulty and risk of the encounter) get helped/ressurected since they’ll be back in the fight fast
- dead players scale the event up and bring 0 damage. ressurecting dead players takes a lot of time and now multiple ressurecting players are providing 0 damage (and subjecting themselves to get killed by boss aoe).
Only logical conclusion:
- if alive, stay alive, maybe help downed players and IGNORE dead players!
- if downed, try to get back up
- if dead -> spawn to waypoint (unless the boss is at 1-5% life. I have seen encounters complete with 2 seconds left and 10 people waypointing in the last 10 seconds. those would have failed otherwise)
Ahh, so I see that you are claiming you can beat the boss by yourself, once those other 30 waypoint out.
Thank you for making my point:
reduction ad absurdum
What’s that point? You think the risen high priest of grenth becomes easy??? hahahahaha
k
But when there are 30 people just laying there dead watching me kill it from ~50%, well that IS just l-a-z-y. It’s a 2 minute run from the nearest wp, it may take me 7min to finish off the priest by myself (which is next to impossible but I’ve done the event ~400+ times with a class/build I fully understand). And so now somehow I made YOUR point so to just lay there lazy and dead until the guy doing all the work (me with max dps but low heal power to be your slave doctor?) to hand you your event reward on a silver platter comes over and gets you off your bum. Dude, just uninstall, k?
And that is a ~2m run, this happens at lyssa too! There is a wp at a 30sec run, many people just lay there waiting to be fully revived until they get barked at to wp out by the com. So, not only is it an event scale issue, but it also stops someone from helping to complete the event by reviving someone from a dead state. There is just no good reason to lay there other than laziness… in a virtual world where you yourself don’t even exert any real energy running an avatar from point A to point B. I find it ridiculous.
Quite honestly, I revive no one from a dead state, sometimes even not after the event is all over if I had noticed them laying there for too long during the event. Many times I just ran off after the end of an event leaving someone behind dead.
(edited by Daywolf.2630)
The issue that was addressed above is the only issue here that matters between a good or bad run.
Whether the dead scale the boss or not the people rezzing certainly count towards scaling and are not doing their share of the DPS. I believe that the dead don’t count towards scaling based on…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event#Event_scaling
“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.”
That being said, it will usually take longer for someone (or a couple of people) in combat to rez a dead person than it would for that dead person to waypoint and run back.
this was the second post in this thread.
you are in the way when you dont WP when dead. But thats it.
The dead do count towards scaling for a “period of time”. How long that period of time is does have an effect on whether it’s worth it or not. However, 5 people can rez a person from fully dead to alive in only a couple of seconds, so is it really even worth not rezzing them? They are able to get back into the fight and contribute additional damage that otherwise wouldn’t have been there.
Also, no, it never takes as much time for somebody to be rezzed than it does for them to WP and run back. If there’s an instance it does, then it means there’s a fight almost quite literally on top of a waypoint. (MKII is not on top of it, but the AoE damage is a good reason to tell people to run back)
The issue that was addressed above is the only issue here that matters between a good or bad run.
Whether the dead scale the boss or not the people rezzing certainly count towards scaling and are not doing their share of the DPS. I believe that the dead don’t count towards scaling based on…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event#Event_scaling
“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.”
That being said, it will usually take longer for someone (or a couple of people) in combat to rez a dead person than it would for that dead person to waypoint and run back.
this was the second post in this thread.
you are in the way when you dont WP when dead. But thats it.
Agreed but partly incorrect. Dead and downed players do scale the boss up and you can sometimes notice a big chunk of players waypointing.
Also read http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/26vke4/boss_blitz_scaling_revelead/
The issue that was addressed above is the only issue here that matters between a good or bad run.
Whether the dead scale the boss or not the people rezzing certainly count towards scaling and are not doing their share of the DPS. I believe that the dead don’t count towards scaling based on…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event#Event_scaling
“Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.”
That being said, it will usually take longer for someone (or a couple of people) in combat to rez a dead person than it would for that dead person to waypoint and run back.
this was the second post in this thread.
you are in the way when you dont WP when dead. But thats it.
The dead do count towards scaling for a “period of time”. How long that period of time is does have an effect on whether it’s worth it or not. However, 5 people can rez a person from fully dead to alive in only a couple of seconds, so is it really even worth not rezzing them? They are able to get back into the fight and contribute additional damage that otherwise wouldn’t have been there.
Also, no, it never takes as much time for somebody to be rezzed than it does for them to WP and run back. If there’s an instance it does, then it means there’s a fight almost quite literally on top of a waypoint. (MKII is not on top of it, but the AoE damage is a good reason to tell people to run back)
No, simply no. Let’s not even get into the risk of people standing there for 5 seconds in 1 place and maybe getting wiped out. Let’s just do some simple math.
For this let’s assume perfect reactions and a base 10k dps per player.
1 player dead = -10k dps
5 players ressurecting him = -50k dps
player is dead for 5 seconds = 5 x (10k+50k) = 300k dps loss
Player is now back in action and does his 10k dps. He would have to do full 30 seconds of 10k dps to even break even on the investment of time on people ressurecting him. Now let’s multiply this example up by 3-4 people dead. Am I getting some where?
It is NOT worth ressurecting a dead player for damage purposes. Period.
EDIT: and just to be clear. I did not factor in for ressurectors dying, players having to evade post ressurection, boss mechanics that allow for only period of time to do damage, etcetc. All of those work most of the time even more against ressurecting.
For VW, you’re under time restrictions. You lose DPS and time when reviving people from being dead.
And you’ll lose DPS for the rest of the battle if you WP out, as you cannot return.
If you wp out, the boss scales down accordingly within 2-3 seconds. While it will also scale down for the dead, it seems to take significantly longer.
Also remember, that the people that end up dead are, on average, less experienced/skilled than those that remained, and that often ressing ends up not in a ressed player, but in 2 dead ones.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Also remember, that the people that end up dead are, on average, less experienced/skilled than those that remained, and that often ressing ends up not in a ressed player, but in 2 dead ones.
Or they are running with a zerker dungeon build/gear in open-world events that where you see 5 people reviving one of these glass cannons you wind up with one still dead and five down… and this I have seen a lot.
Also remember, that the people that end up dead are, on average, less experienced/skilled than those that remained, and that often ressing ends up not in a ressed player, but in 2 dead ones.
Or they are running with a zerker dungeon build/gear in open-world events that where you see 5 people reviving one of these glass cannons you wind up with one still dead and five down… and this I have seen a lot.
Nothing wrong with using berserker gear in the open world. It’s not for dungeons only.
Also remember, that the people that end up dead are, on average, less experienced/skilled than those that remained, and that often ressing ends up not in a ressed player, but in 2 dead ones.
Or they are running with a zerker dungeon build/gear in open-world events that where you see 5 people reviving one of these glass cannons you wind up with one still dead and five down… and this I have seen a lot.
Yeah, as i said, the less skilled players will go down more often, while the better skilled ones will stay alive. And you actually have to be a really bad player to consistently go down in Open World just because you’re wearing zerkers… They affect your survivablity in insignificant way compared to your skill.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Nothing wrong with using berserker gear in the open world. It’s not for dungeons only.
uh-huh, and you do that at like Cathedral of Zephyrs taking full force hits… We can usually tell who the peeps running with glass cannon builds are. Same peeps laying dead at the feet of the risen high priest of grenth after not even being able to survive one bounce. Places where “skill” just fails due to sub-par mechanics at times, and you just need to be able to take a serious hit now and again. They used to be harder though… ah well, but too many people complained “oh my glass cannon dungeon build doesn’t work here, make it easy naow”. yup-uh-huh.
Vinewrath? Not quite as sure. Might depend on which skritt tunnels are active.
I hate dying in that one. If no tunnels are active you have to run all the way across the SW to get back. Of course some monster will try and attack, delaying you.
The good thing is if you did enough damage first it does not matter as much. Even if the fighting ended right after you died the path to the chest will stay open a good long time.
So, the bottom line is that unless there is a close waypoint, or there are other circumstances, it’s always better to rez your comrades.
Nope. If they are downed, I keep a eye open for that and revive them right away if possible. If not possible and they die, they need to WP out, period. Only time I don’t think them to be a waste of character slot is if it’s the last sliver of life in the event such as with a grenth assault vs. high priest phase.
But no one listens, so failure happens sometimes when about the only one left is my d/d stealth thief dancing around 30 player corpses that won’t wp out. Sometimes I can pull it off, sometimes I cant. Though I’m better off just soloing the priest from the start with no one around.
The only place it’s best to not tap out is in wvw. Bout’ it.
Ahh, so I see that you are claiming you can beat the boss by yourself, once those other 30 waypoint out.
Thank you for making my point:
reduction ad absurdum
If it’s always better to WP out when dead, then logically, teams should have an easier and easier time of defeating the boss as they leave. Reducing to the absurd, when the last character dies, the boss should be really easy.
Since that clearly can’t be true, the premise is falsified. It then follows that rezzing your colleagues is best. (Although, as stated above, there may be timing problems, like really close but still active waypoints.)
cool, you know a philosophcial term. Unfortunately, it does not apply to what the poster in question described. And WPing out implies running back into the fray. Your overall posting heavily implies you are not really interested in the “math” of rezzing vs WP, you are just one of those “play as you want” hierophants on a propaganda mission for clueless casuals :P
Nothing wrong with using berserker gear in the open world. It’s not for dungeons only.
uh-huh, and you do that at like Cathedral of Zephyrs taking full force hits… We can usually tell who the peeps running with glass cannon builds are. Same peeps laying dead at the feet of the risen high priest of grenth after not even being able to survive one bounce. Places where “skill” just fails due to sub-par mechanics at times, and you just need to be able to take a serious hit now and again. They used to be harder though… ah well, but too many people complained “oh my glass cannon dungeon build doesn’t work here, make it easy naow”. yup-uh-huh.
Fall damage reduction trait. Player skill is the issue and not armor stat choice.
Nothing wrong with using berserker gear in the open world. It’s not for dungeons only.
uh-huh, and you do that at like Cathedral of Zephyrs taking full force hits… We can usually tell who the peeps running with glass cannon builds are. Same peeps laying dead at the feet of the risen high priest of grenth after not even being able to survive one bounce. Places where “skill” just fails due to sub-par mechanics at times, and you just need to be able to take a serious hit now and again. They used to be harder though… ah well, but too many people complained “oh my glass cannon dungeon build doesn’t work here, make it easy naow”. yup-uh-huh.
There is nothing in this game currently that can not be done in full zerker. Nothing.
Now full zerker might not be ideal for every occasion (tequatle), but it is not the limiting factor as far as doability goes. That is strictly a player skill issue.
uh-huh, and you do that at like Cathedral of Zephyrs taking full force hits… We can usually tell who the peeps running with glass cannon builds are. Same peeps laying dead at the feet of the risen high priest of grenth after not even being able to survive one bounce. Places where “skill” just fails due to sub-par mechanics at times, and you just need to be able to take a serious hit now and again. They used to be harder though… ah well, but too many people complained “oh my glass cannon dungeon build doesn’t work here, make it easy naow”. yup-uh-huh.
The people dead on the ground at Dwayna are those who (zerker or not zerker) don’t know the fight well enough to know when to dodge her massive damage attack. The people dead at Grenth are also the people who don’t know the fight well enough to trait for fall damage reduction, avoid the swirling pools on the ground, and dodge out of the giant ice aoe. Zerker gear has nothing to do with that; not knowing the fight is what causes that.
- more than 4 players start scaling the boss up. some bosses require a minimum amount of players to complete due to time restraints (they basically require a minimum amount of dps and since they don’t scale with 100% base life, more players doing damage increase the kill speed)
The minimum number varies for different types of scaling and event classes, but because of this, if every player that couldn’t handle it waypointed out, events would never fail, assuming there were a few decent players left. The problem however is they don’t bother and the lower amount of participants you have, the far greater of an impact each individual makes and the more of a problem leechers become. Personally, I’ve done Vinewrath with only ~4 people per lane and have solo’d the breaches, which is far more fun than zerging it.
Events don’t scale 1:1, so you would expect that more people would be able to kill it faster, but most of the time, they’re worse. The average zergling is a terrible and mindless 1 button spammer. If there are twice as many bad players than good players, numbers are hurting you.
Vinewrath? Not quite as sure. Might depend on which skritt tunnels are active.
I hate dying in that one. If no tunnels are active you have to run all the way across the SW to get back. Of course some monster will try and attack, delaying you.
The good thing is if you did enough damage first it does not matter as much. Even if the fighting ended right after you died the path to the chest will stay open a good long time.
I still don’t understand people who WP to Camp instead of Hidden Labyrinth if defeated at VW. I’ve never been to a VW where someone hasn’t cleared the WP beforehand.
Honestly, it’s just better to WP out if you are defeated vs timed bosses. People likely won’t take the time to Rez you and if they do, they run the risk of dying too and aren’t supplying DPS.
dead players scale the event up and
Proof? Unless you can prove this statement, the whole argument is invalid. And, much evidence (not proof) has been cited that says the opposite.
and bring 0 damage. ressurecting dead players takes a lot of time and now multiple ressurecting players are providing 0 damage (and subjecting themselves to get killed by boss aoe).
Again, it also takes a lot of time to walk back. If it takes 20 seconds for 1 person to rez and 30 seconds to walk back, then it’s a net gain to rez the person.
What’s that point? You think the risen high priest of grenth becomes easy??? hahahahaha
You said that it was better to waypoint out, because the boss would scale down. I was merely bringing your statement into force for larger numbers. It’s a logical method of defeating an argument by reducing the argument to a conclusion that is obviously false. It’s called reductio ad absurdum.
Example: 20 characters are fighting a boss. One dies. It was claimed that it would assist the remaining 19 if he WPed out.
What I did was extend the argument to the 19th player. And the 18th player. And so on down to 1 player remaining. By the argument, this one player can beat the boss.
This conclusion is absurd; therefore the original premise is false by reductio ad absurdum.
This indicates that the downscaling occurs instantly. I doubt that’s true, but I’ll concede that it’s very quickly changed for his data to show what it did.
One problem, though, is that it’s not infinite. Beyond a certain number of players (10, if his data is still accurate), the scaling up is less than the player adds to the battle. So, it’s bad to lose players, since the downscaling brings the numbers down to a new number that slightly favors the boss.
In VW, when a player leaves, it’s permanent because that player cannot return. Therefore, beyond 10 players, it is more favorable to the players to stay and get rezzed. By extension, players who do not rez defeated players are hurting themselves. But, not to the degree I originally postulated.
This same effect would be true in other boss battles, but it applies only to the time the player is gone from the battle, and is less extreme that I thought.
Based solely on the results of fights with the vinewrath thrasher: always waypoint.