Guild Wars 2

Tolmos.8395:

Mirta.5029:

hmm. If you had such a violent relationship and have a person tracking you on real life how about you just pick up a new copy of Guild Wars 2, that it’s likely you will do. I don’t see the problem.

A) Because that is unnecessary when GW2 is a tweak away from fixing the problem and one of the only MMOs available that actively ENABLES stalking. That’s even assuming she has the 50 dollars to throw away on a pointless venture C) So your suggestion is that she give up everything in her character that she’s worked on just so that stalking can continue to be easy in the game?

Mirta.5029:

Not to mention police should know about it and you should have some security at your place. Otherwise the person could just as well wait for you to go back from work at your door step just as efficiently.

The police knowing about it doesn’t change that there is danger. And not everyone who has trouble with another person and has their personal welfare endangered suddenly grows a money tree in the backyard with which to fund security systems, new copies of GW2 and whatever else.

Mirta.5029:

You could also be logging and playing on your account from a different location, like for example your friend’s house.

Or she could be home. And him knowing that puts her in danger.

I’m pretty sure that a) he wouldn’t bother checking GW2 for her and just stalk her house and beat her to death there (so much simpler) b) she would have changed the place she lives in and WOULD buy a new copy.
Nice for you to invent an illogical situation just to support your own argument.

Mirta.5029:

Tolmos.8395:

Mirta.5029:

hmm. If you had such a violent relationship and have a person tracking you on real life how about you just pick up a new copy of Guild Wars 2, that it’s likely you will do. I don’t see the problem.

A) Because that is unnecessary when GW2 is a tweak away from fixing the problem and one of the only MMOs available that actively ENABLES stalking. That’s even assuming she has the 50 dollars to throw away on a pointless venture C) So your suggestion is that she give up everything in her character that she’s worked on just so that stalking can continue to be easy in the game?

Mirta.5029:

Not to mention police should know about it and you should have some security at your place. Otherwise the person could just as well wait for you to go back from work at your door step just as efficiently.

The police knowing about it doesn’t change that there is danger. And not everyone who has trouble with another person and has their personal welfare endangered suddenly grows a money tree in the backyard with which to fund security systems, new copies of GW2 and whatever else.

Mirta.5029:

You could also be logging and playing on your account from a different location, like for example your friend’s house.

Or she could be home. And him knowing that puts her in danger.

I’m pretty sure that a) he wouldn’t bother checking GW2 for her and just stalk her house and beat her to death there (so much simpler) b) she would have changed the place she lives in and WOULD buy a new copy.
Nice for you to invent an illogical situation just to support your own argument.

You’re trying to downplay a very real possibility, due to your own insensitivity, by trying to say that it is “unlikely”. Shall we just go a step farther and say “It’s unlikely he’d even stalk her since that isn’t normal, so stalking doesn’t exist”? Sounds legit to me!

Stalkers aren’t some mythical monster with no other whims or desires. They dont sit around all day thinking “stalk stalk stalk stalk” and then when the opportunity appears, they strike. They do have other things they enjoy doing, and if they happen to play GW2 they will very likely be on it at some point. If that happens to be the same time the person they are stalking logs on? Welp, sucks to be them.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Snow White.9680:

Siphaed.9235:

“Appear Offline” shouldn’t happen in a SOCIAL MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME. Want to appear offline? Play Skyrim. I heard that game’s privacy security is so good that you’ll never appear online to anyone every so long as you play it.

Appearing offline already exists in this game, we’re only asking that it be tweaked.

In other MMOs, when you block someone you ‘go offline’ on their friends list.. never to be seen again.

These are not unreasonable requests. Gw2 should have these features.

I miss the old /anon from DaoC or the anon option from STO.

They work just like they should. The invisible in GW2 is a joke at best, flawed beyond comprehension.

I logged on (people on my friends list see x has come online)
I pop invis (people see x has gone offline)
I eventually log for the day (people see x has gone offline, even though I was invis)

Some days you just want to play solo without getting bothered with PMs from friends, guildies and “friends”

IMO Siphaed has no clue what hes talking about. Anon features is a fundamental thing in every good MMO, game with multiplayer features or those that use social 3rd party matchmaking programs (Steam, Origin etc).

GW2s social anon feature is probably the worst implemented I’ve seen since I started MMOing.

This would be the situation that most people face. Their parents or some friend just put together a slideshow of their cat’s first hairball and want to show it off. You don’t want to hurt their feelings so you say “No no, I’m busy right now. Sounds awesome though!”. Then you realize “holy crap, they (or someone they know) plays GW2. If I log on, they’ll know I have free time! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!”

While not life threatening, it’s far more annoying than it should be and than any other game that doesn’t have such an… odd friends list would make it.

Tolmos.8395:

Mirta.5029:

Tolmos.8395:

Mirta.5029:

hmm. If you had such a violent relationship and have a person tracking you on real life how about you just pick up a new copy of Guild Wars 2, that it’s likely you will do. I don’t see the problem.

A) Because that is unnecessary when GW2 is a tweak away from fixing the problem and one of the only MMOs available that actively ENABLES stalking. That’s even assuming she has the 50 dollars to throw away on a pointless venture C) So your suggestion is that she give up everything in her character that she’s worked on just so that stalking can continue to be easy in the game?

Mirta.5029:

Not to mention police should know about it and you should have some security at your place. Otherwise the person could just as well wait for you to go back from work at your door step just as efficiently.

The police knowing about it doesn’t change that there is danger. And not everyone who has trouble with another person and has their personal welfare endangered suddenly grows a money tree in the backyard with which to fund security systems, new copies of GW2 and whatever else.

Mirta.5029:

You could also be logging and playing on your account from a different location, like for example your friend’s house.

Or she could be home. And him knowing that puts her in danger.

I’m pretty sure that a) he wouldn’t bother checking GW2 for her and just stalk her house and beat her to death there (so much simpler) b) she would have changed the place she lives in and WOULD buy a new copy.
Nice for you to invent an illogical situation just to support your own argument.

You’re trying to downplay a very real possibility, due to your own insensitivity, by trying to say that it is “unlikely”. Shall we just go a step farther and say “It’s unlikely he’d even stalk her since that isn’t normal, so stalking doesn’t exist”? Sounds legit to me!

Stalkers aren’t some mythical monster with no other whims or desires. They dont sit around all day thinking “stalk stalk stalk stalk” and then when the opportunity appears, they strike. They do have other things they enjoy doing, and if they happen to play GW2 they will very likely be on it at some point. If that happens to be the same time the person they are stalking logs on? Welp, sucks to be them.

No, I’m saying that if she is being in danger, NOT changing her living place, NOT announcing it to the police and NOT hiring guards is really not smart. I’m also saying that real stalkers and murderers DO NOT take their time to check the internet because they CAN just stand outside your unguarded door. I just think that you have NO idea how stalking works and should not attempt to participate in the discussion.

I think that paranoia definitely plays a big part in “stalking.” Whether or not it actually occurs is a different story.

That said, being anonymous is pretty standard for an MMO. And by “anonymous” I mean actually anonymous (no one knows you are online until you change your status).

The way things are setup, it also has the issue of guildies and actual friends not being sure when someone is on. Not everyone may run into this problem, but I get logged out of the game due to inactivity quite a bit. However, I still appear as online, and it has even made some friends think something is wrong since I am not replying. Seems to be an oversight, in more ways than just stalking, imo. Especially considering you can stay on the char select screen indefinitely.

edit: On a slightly random note, is anyone aware of whether or not being on the character select screen counts towards hours played? Havent cared enough to test it, but seeing as how I still appear fully online and in-game, could definitely see it working that way.

Tolmos.8395:

So basically it comes down to: “If someone you know snaps and is stalking you, you’re screwed because no game company should ever implement any features that could possibly help someone maintain personal privacy or security”?

That’s a bit… extreme. When the fix is to simple add a single option to be able to out invisible, instead of switching to invisible after logging in.

I’m not against adding option, but I’m against all of the QQ about non-problem — block will block all messages, and even if some persistent 1@#!# manages to find one in whole zone (did you tried guild bounties, finding marked NPC on the known path is a kitten with lots of people looking), what it can do — kill steal, resource steal, PK (well maybe in wvwvw if on opposite side but then just get some friends and return a favor), …?

GW2 already did a great job to prevent things like that happening.

About followers, I also have to people I do not know in it (or at least do not remember), but, I did not jumped on the “they are stalking me” bandwagon — more realistic reason is that most of them are people I was playing and having fun with at some point in time (event, dungeon, whatever) and they, as I do from time to time, added me to the list of people which are interesting to play with and may call first when I need more for something in game if they are interested and available.

I never really understood why you can add someone to friends without an accept invite feature

Even if some dont take “stalking” as the OP mentioned seriously enough since its online “stalking” in a game, it’s still “stalking”.

It leads to an uncomfortable time while online, leading to a less fun gaming experience. This is something that shouldnt be tolerated IMO, since the game is supposed to be fun for everyone.

Or is this where the part “online experience may vary from person to person” comes in?

I also have a feeling that many people in this thread are actually “stalkers”.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Even if some dont take “stalking” as the OP mentioned seriously enough since its online “stalking” in a game, it’s still “stalking”.

It leads to an uncomfortable time while online, leading to a less fun gaming experience. This is something that shouldnt be tolerated IMO, since the game is supposed to be fun for everyone.

Or is this where the part “online experience may vary from person to person” comes in?

I also have a feeling that many people in this thread are actually “stalkers”.

Whether or not someone is being stalked, or whether or not someone is doing the stalking is not imperative to the point of implementing such a feature. It has a much wider range of effect than just that one aspect.

I think you see so many are so jaded because of the “boy who cried wolf” syndrome. The definitions of stalking are not subjective, though the perception of it is. That leads to a disparity.

I think we can all mostly agree that there has been a standard set by the MMO industry, for many different reasons, and there doesnt seem to be much justification for doing things differently in GW2.

Tolmos.8395:

This would be the situation that most people face. Their parents or some friend just put together a slideshow of their cat’s first hairball and want to show it off. You don’t want to hurt their feelings so you say “No no, I’m busy right now. Sounds awesome though!”. Then you realize “holy crap, they (or someone they know) plays GW2. If I log on, they’ll know I have free time! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!”

While not life threatening, it’s far more annoying than it should be and than any other game that doesn’t have such an… odd friends list would make it.

Then you are deserving any annoyance from that … lying never made things better

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

ZenonSeth.5739:

Maybe I’m missing something, but we’re talking about ‘stalking’ in-game?
Why is this an issue?
This isn’t the real world, they don’t know you, they just follow some pixels in game. There is nothing they can do to you, or your character, except annoy you, and that’s only if you let them.

Just go about your daily business as though they’re just another random npc or something – worrying about this stuff, or giving any sort of feedback to people like that (i.e. saying “leave me alone” or “stop following me”) only gives these people the attention they want, and lets them know that they have an effect on you.
Just ignore them, they’ll get bored and go away.

You seem to be of the opinion that online stalking is okay. Unfortunately, the courts disagree with you.

Anyways…these are all things I’ve been complaining about since I started playing. Allowing anyone to friend you and then see when you are online, what character you are on, and where is ridiculous. What if I don’t want someone knowing every character I have? Hell, I don’t want my guilds knowing that either.

To make matters worse, setting yourself to offline doesn’t help. Not only do they see when you hit the login screen, but they can still see what zone you are in. If anyone is paying attention, they can blatantly see that you are online and doing stuff, then they get upset that you are hiding and you have to deal with extra drama.

I have no idea what the thought process behind these systems were, but even Blizzard figured out that you need to have an invite/accept system for global friends lists.

Spiral Architect.6540:

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

I would change my account -_-

Mirta.5029:

Spiral Architect.6540:

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

I would change my account -_-

Some of us have more than 600+ hours logged into our account. Dropping all of that because some someone decides they want to ruin your life isn’t an appealing option when the alternative is simply “Let me log in invisible as opposed to setting myself to invisible 2 seconds after logging in”.

Mirta.5029:

Spiral Architect.6540:

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

I would change my account -_-

And that would most likely do the trick. But what of the person who has multiple 80’s on their account, with exotics/ascended, lots of achievements, etc.? Isn’t it a better solution for ANet to tweak their UI a bit, and include the option to appear offline to those on the “blocked” list? And to provide a way to log in “invisible?”

It seems obvious to me.

Edit: oops, sorry — cross-posted with Tolmos.

Rhysati.4932:

ZenonSeth.5739:

Maybe I’m missing something, but we’re talking about ‘stalking’ in-game?
Why is this an issue?
This isn’t the real world, they don’t know you, they just follow some pixels in game. There is nothing they can do to you, or your character, except annoy you, and that’s only if you let them.

Just go about your daily business as though they’re just another random npc or something – worrying about this stuff, or giving any sort of feedback to people like that (i.e. saying “leave me alone” or “stop following me”) only gives these people the attention they want, and lets them know that they have an effect on you.
Just ignore them, they’ll get bored and go away.

You seem to be of the opinion that online stalking is okay. Unfortunately, the courts disagree with you.

[snip]

No, I am not. I wrote several lengthy posts after that one explaining my view, and why I posted that.
Please stop putting words in my mouth.

Spiral Architect.6540:

Mirta.5029:

Spiral Architect.6540:

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

I would change my account -_-

And that would most likely do the trick. But what of the person who has multiple 80’s on their account, with exotics/ascended, lots of achievements, etc.? Isn’t it a better solution for ANet to tweak their UI a bit, and include the option to appear offline to those on the “blocked” list? And to provide a way to log in “invisible?”

It seems obvious to me.

Edit: oops, sorry — cross-posted with Tolmos.

I’m not opposed to the idea of starting invisible. I would support your idea. However I’m just saying that if you got a stalker in real life it’s pretty kitten serious and how many hours you have put into an online game shouldn’t get a say in the decision to stay safe or not.

Spiral Architect.6540:

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

You seem to be under the impression that those individuals wouldn’t post in this sort of thread in order to defend a system which aids them.

nekitten234:

Spiral Architect.6540:

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

“Sensitive” thing being what? QQing and asking welfare <something> to help you … or just deal with it — there are few good tips about that in this thread.

Sorry for the ranty answers, but all that talk about being “sensitive” is just dumbing down of the general population (male and female alike) into drones who ends up expecting that their problems must be solved by the “higher powers” without even trying to do anything about it.

And, in case that’s not clear — if one I know (or me) gets into trouble like that … well, enough is to say that would be stalker will be dealt with one way or another — real “sensitive” persons help others not QQ and standing by waiting for someone else to go and help them. And, no I’m not aggressive type going around trying to pick fights, but sometime ignoring and turning away is not a solution but main problem …

I’m not sure how you got all that from my post, to be honest. QQ’ing? Welfare? All I’m suggesting is that:

1) the current UI is making it too easy for players to be tracked — even by people they don’t want to be tracked by.

2) The suggestion that some players might not feel safe because of #1 seems to be engendering a lot of negative reaction.

I described that negative reaction as “insensitive.” Why? Because if you, or someone you care about, were victimized by stalking behavior, you might have a different attitude. But not being able (or willing) to see that this could potentially be a problem for some people, strikes me as rather callous and insensitive.

Tolmos.8395:

Mirta.5029:

Tolmos.8395:

Mirta.5029:

hmm. If you had such a violent relationship and have a person tracking you on real life how about you just pick up a new copy of Guild Wars 2, that it’s likely you will do. I don’t see the problem.

A) Because that is unnecessary when GW2 is a tweak away from fixing the problem and one of the only MMOs available that actively ENABLES stalking. That’s even assuming she has the 50 dollars to throw away on a pointless venture C) So your suggestion is that she give up everything in her character that she’s worked on just so that stalking can continue to be easy in the game?

Mirta.5029:

Not to mention police should know about it and you should have some security at your place. Otherwise the person could just as well wait for you to go back from work at your door step just as efficiently.

The police knowing about it doesn’t change that there is danger. And not everyone who has trouble with another person and has their personal welfare endangered suddenly grows a money tree in the backyard with which to fund security systems, new copies of GW2 and whatever else.

Mirta.5029:

You could also be logging and playing on your account from a different location, like for example your friend’s house.

Or she could be home. And him knowing that puts her in danger.

I’m pretty sure that a) he wouldn’t bother checking GW2 for her and just stalk her house and beat her to death there (so much simpler) b) she would have changed the place she lives in and WOULD buy a new copy.
Nice for you to invent an illogical situation just to support your own argument.

You’re trying to downplay a very real possibility, due to your own insensitivity, by trying to say that it is “unlikely”. Shall we just go a step farther and say “It’s unlikely he’d even stalk her since that isn’t normal, so stalking doesn’t exist”? Sounds legit to me!

Stalkers aren’t some mythical monster with no other whims or desires. They dont sit around all day thinking “stalk stalk stalk stalk” and then when the opportunity appears, they strike. They do have other things they enjoy doing, and if they happen to play GW2 they will very likely be on it at some point. If that happens to be the same time the person they are stalking logs on? Welp, sucks to be them.

While I do think game companies have a responsibility to make sure people aren’t breaking the rules and to punish them properly if they have it is EXTREMELY difficult to prove that someone is stalking you. It’s just as hard to prove it in real life as well.

I think it’s everyone’s responsibility to protect themselves as much as they can ingame, it shouldn’t all be Anet’s fault if something has happened. Stalking is bad, but it’s something only you can protect yourself from.

Additional friendlist features and restrictions may help, but at the same time adding in more functions is going to make things more complex for the percentage of people who aren’t being stalked. Which is, I gather, higher than the percentage of people being stalked.

Right now everyone is talking in the hypothetical with a side of hyperbole. With a dash of tin-foil-hat level paranoia. No, I don’t agree that online stalking should be treated with this level of hateful responses, personal derangement and vitriol. Yes, I have been stalked online and not in a pleasant way. (People basically followed me around to spread hateful comments about me and deliver death threats) The stalker only gets power over you if you let them. If you shut them down every chance then they can’t get to you. Ever. Ever. EVER.

Yeah, it’s upsetting. But in the end you are the only one who can stop it. Block them, contact Anet etc etc. But don’t say, “It’s all friendlists fault because they can see where you are and add you without your consent.”

Plus, if I was completely honest, if someone started stalking me I’d turn it into the biggest troll opportunity EVAR.

Tuluum.9638:

SneakyErvin.3056:

Even if some dont take “stalking” as the OP mentioned seriously enough since its online “stalking” in a game, it’s still “stalking”.

It leads to an uncomfortable time while online, leading to a less fun gaming experience. This is something that shouldnt be tolerated IMO, since the game is supposed to be fun for everyone.

Or is this where the part “online experience may vary from person to person” comes in?

I also have a feeling that many people in this thread are actually “stalkers”.

Whether or not someone is being stalked, or whether or not someone is doing the stalking is not imperative to the point of implementing such a feature. It has a much wider range of effect than just that one aspect.

I think you see so many are so jaded because of the “boy who cried wolf” syndrome. The definitions of stalking are not subjective, though the perception of it is. That leads to a disparity.

I think we can all mostly agree that there has been a standard set by the MMO industry, for many different reasons, and there doesnt seem to be much justification for doing things differently in GW2.

Implement what feature?

GW2 is currently doing, what most other MMOs did fine, completely wrong with a utterly broken anon system.

Updating locations even when invis.
Giving people on your friends list log on/log out messages when you are invis or want to be at log in.
Removing your ability to sea guild chat while being invis (WTF?).

Among other bad things.

I would love to see a system where you have to accept a friend before you get a follower. I would also love to be able to log in as invis, like you can in Origin for example and STO if you check a box 1 single time.

EvilParfait.7538:

But don’t say, “It’s all friendlists fault because they can see where you are and add you without your consent.”

I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that the blame lies on ANet. I see this thread as a request for a couple of simple changes to the friend list functionality that would make the game a less “stalker-friendly” place.

Spiral Architect.6540:

EvilParfait.7538:

But don’t say, “It’s all friendlists fault because they can see where you are and add you without your consent.”

I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that the blame lies on ANet. I see this thread as a request for a couple of simple changes to the friend list functionality that would make the game a less “stalker-friendly” place.

And if you would kindly go back and read my post again, carefully, I would point out I addressed that at least somewhat. It is up to everyone to protect themselves from stalking.

If you feel threatened you need to block/ignore them. Acknowledging their act only gives them power and they escalate. So what if they can tell where you are? If they are stalking you they probably have a good idea where you are regardless.

What I was attempting to say is don’t blame the game for not helping you. Everyone has the tools to stop such behavior.

tl;dr Make block actually work but at the same time stand up to stalkers. Also, don’t use hypothetical hyperbole tinfoil hat arguments to make your points more valid. (Not aimed at you Spiral)

It was said earlier, but it’s worth repeating because it seems to be the best solution:

When you block a player’s account, that account should no longer have any in-game access to information about you (whether you’re on its friends list or not).

This would severely limit stalking behavior while requiring only a small change to the game that few players would ever notice. Everybody wins. (Except the programmers who have to implement it, but that’s what they get paid for, eh?)

Here are my concerns with how the current system works.

In game, other players can easily gather enough information to make life hard for others. Take my username for example. Unless I’m mistaken, that username was assigned to me when I signed up for these forums.

That is the same username that is displayed to all players in-game. Because I don’t have many tools available to me to limit the amount of information others can see about me while I’m online, it opens the door for abuse.

Imagine that I’m online and someone decides to plug my username into Google, or on these forums. They can very quickly find every post I’ve ever made on here. If I happen to be one of those who has an account on another website, they can start putting together information about me such as my age, location, sex, etc.

As gamers we should have the opportunity to control what information others see. While it may not seem like a big deal to some, there are situations where online stalking, bullying, and identity theft are a very real possibility.

Some people don’t care, but for those who have found themselves on the receiving end of an unpleasant situation, not having the ability to protect oneself is a big deal. Everyone should feel safe when playing games online. No one deserves to have their gaming experience ruined because a company doesn’t understand or care about privacy. I really hope ANet starts to take security more seriously.

Great job bringing this up Snow White.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Here are my concerns with how the current system works.

In game, other players can easily gather enough information to make life hard for others. Take my username for example. Unless I’m mistaken, that username was assigned to me when I signed up for these forums.

That is the same username that is displayed to all players in-game. Because I don’t have many tools available to me to limit the amount of information others can see about me while I’m online, it opens the door for abuse.

Imagine that I’m online and someone decides to plug my username into Google, or on these forums. They can very quickly find every post I’ve ever made on here. If I happen to be one of those who has an account on another website, they can start putting together information about me such as my age, location, sex, etc.

As gamers we should have the opportunity to control what information others see. While it may not seem like a big deal to some, there are situations where online stalking, bullying, and identity theft are a very real possibility.

Some people don’t care, but for those who have found themselves on the receiving end of an unpleasant situation, not having the ability to protect oneself is a big deal. Everyone should feel safe when playing games online. No one deserves to have their gaming experience ruined because a company doesn’t understand or care about privacy. I really hope ANet starts to take security more seriously.

Great job bringing this up Snow White.

I find it weird that you’re afraid of other players, but not the people on the Forum. I could do the same right now by taking your username from here and start bullying you. I won’t do that. I’m just pointing at the gap in logic.

Healix.5819:

You can also invite people to a guild when they’re offline, allowing you to see other information such as what server they’re on. (the friends list only shows what zone they’re in)

Honestly, I think this is ok. The online/offline thing is the same as the friends list (and can be fixed the same way), and just knowing what server someone is on won’t really let them do much, but is very useful for the guild because of the system this game uses.

So like others said above, log in offline and only confirmed/mutual friends being able to see your info should go a long way for easier first steps.

Mirta,

Exactly!

My account name should not be public information on here, or in-game. Sure, I realize we all need usernames, but why is my username displayed in-game as well?

For me, the difference between the forums, and in-game is that if my forum experience is being ruined by others, I can easily avoid the forums. If someone (or a group of people) in-game decides to make my life hell, then the whole reason for being here is threatened.

I should have the ability as a player to choose what information other see. If I want to post on these forums with a different username, then I should be able to. If I want to hide my username, location, online status, to other in game, I should be able to.

hildegain.2106:

Neural.1824:

Spiral Architect.6540:

The insensitivity in this thread is staggering. Stalkers DO use whatever means they can to “keep tabs” on people, including monitoring game log-ins through friend lists.

To those of you who feel the OP is just being “paranoid,” if you ever got stalked, you’d change your tune — in a hurry.

You seem to be under the impression that those individuals wouldn’t post in this sort of thread in order to defend a system which aids them.

Before I report your post for the blatantly insolent content it has, allow me to enlighten you a little.

1. Nobody is against the ability to go fully invisible, remove followers and block players so that they can’t track you.

2. What people are criticizing are the ridiculous and unrealistic hypothetical situations given to justify it. We don’t need an unrealistic situation to justify something that we can agree would be a nice thing to have.

Report all you want. I was simply stating a fact that Spiral may have overlooked in his/her comment. True, I could have probably worded it better, as it comes across flat in its delivery. It certainly wasn’t intended as a slight against Spiral, with whom I generally agree.

This thread, however, is no different than threads on botting, RMT, or other issues. There’s always someone stretching things to extremes in order to defend their own unconscionable actions.

hildegain.2106:

1. Nobody is against the ability to go fully invisible, remove followers and block players so that they can’t track you.

cough

actually, I am. These are all abilities that would help cheaters/hackers/griefers/etc remain undetected/unreported.

Also, giving a player these abilities would also help stalkers. Currently, if someone feels stalked and/or harassed in-game, they can use the friends list to keep track of their stalkers and avoid them.

In the end, if you’re being seriously harassed in any way in-game.. REPORT IT! that’s the truly important bit. Any other course of action is letting the stalker get away with his/her harassment.

@Snow White, I agree with your concerns. It’s amazing to me that people in this thread criticize you for not wanting to be upset and intimidated while you play. I had a problem with a stalker in a previous MMO so I do sympathize. The lack of privacy options in this game is crazy.

Hopefully there will be a response. But I should warn you that this was all brought up in beta and discussed at length. Nothing was done.

One thing to understand is that online stalking isn’t always about what the other person may, or may not do to you. Sure, we can sit here and come up with a million different “stalker” horror stories, but in reality it can often be about power.

The constant pressure of knowing you have no privacy from someone can be very stressful. If someone in game has the ability to constantly remind you that they’re forcing themselves into your life, and that your only recourse is to stop playing, it can be very hard to deal with.

It can also be hard for those who find themselves in bullying situations. It can be psychologically stressful to know that a person/people can essentially find, and follow you in-game.

I can’t speak to how often these situations occur, but even if they’re happening to a small percentage of players, doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter. As I said, all gamers have the right to privacy in game. ANet needs to be aware of potential problems, and take the steps necessary to make sure everyone has a great gaming experience.

The issue of a “stalker” or any of the other consequences of the current setup are largely just symptomatic of the underlying problem….and that is the right to privacy. That the game allows “Nair-do-wells” their opportunity to invade your privacy (in whatever fashion) is purely a consequence.

That said I believe that ANet should address the privacy issues raised by the OP in terms of the right to privacy for us all….regardless.

Thanks for the thumbs up everyone. I really appreciate all the helpful (and even the not so nice) comments.

I feel that privacy is very important in large communities like this one, and I have only recently learned how little of it we get in Guild Wars 2. Honestly it’s getting to the point where I’m having a hard time enjoying myself in game knowing I’m so exposed.
I know it sounds silly to some of you, and I don’t expect everyone to understand but it’s very real for me, and many others.

I really hope ANet will give us more privacy options.

Snow White.9680:

Thanks for the thumbs up everyone. I really appreciate all the helpful (and even the not so nice) comments.

I feel that privacy is very important in large communities like this one, and I have only recently learned how little of it we get in Guild Wars 2. Honestly it’s getting to the point where I’m having a hard time enjoying myself in game knowing I’m so exposed.
I know it sounds silly to some of you, and I don’t expect everyone to understand but it’s very real for me, and many others.

I really hope ANet will give us more privacy options.

I don’t understand your feeling of being exposed. What sort of things happen that make you uncomfortable? Where do you think those feelings come from?

Why would you play an online game when that means that other’s actions could affect you? Does it ring illogical to you to feel so ‘exposed’ in an online game where no one could possibly know your name, address, personality or favorite color unless you tell them?

Again, I’m sorry, I just don’t understand.

I strongly disagree with points 2 and 3

I strongly agree with points 1 and 4

point 4 makes point 3 quite irrelevant though. If you block someone and they cant see you online ever whats the point of implementing point 3?

Lastly account names are very important for reporting and game features. the game does everything by your account name so it should be perfectly ok for it to use that account name.

If someone is really harassing you, please report them.

Implementing 3 would be a negative on the game. As it will be harder to contact people. For example if I want to catch a certain guild leader on another server when they are online its easier to add them to my friends list and pop them a pm when they get online. I’m not stalking them, just getting in contact. And as a guild leader myself and an officer in another guild I need to be contacted over all sorts of things, and for people to contact me its easier if they know i’m online or not before they try to send a message. All #3 does is impede these operations for no good reason, as your 4th suggestion would solve that problem.

I agree with the OP there there should be better privacy options. Naturally people that keep to themselves, play by themselves, or have never had any of these issues come up will find it silly or unnecessary. But those that have been through it can say that it is annoying, it ruins the fun of the game, and it can get downright creepy/scary. I love whoever wrote this:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

The constant pressure of knowing you have no privacy from someone can be very stressful. If someone in game has the ability to constantly remind you that they’re forcing themselves into your life, and that your only recourse is to stop playing, it can be very hard to deal with.

It can also be hard for those who find themselves in bullying situations. It can be psychologically stressful to know that a person/people can essentially find, and follow you in-game.

It sums it up exactly. My ex happens to play GW2 as well, and he makes it a point to let me know hes there, he can find me, and he isn’t going anywhere. Sure, I can “pick up another copy of GW2”…if I can scrape up an extra $50 that would otherwise go towards my student expenses, and throw away all my progress on this account, as well as the GW1 account it is linked to. But why should I have to do that when the fix is an easy one? Sure I can block him so he can’t send me messages, but that doesn’t stop him from knowing exactly where I am at any time. Making yourself invisable to those you block, and making friending be a mutual aggreement would fix ALL my issues. I can go to a new server and the issue would be gone. People like that can’t really be reported since they aren’t clearly breaking any rules. Support would just tell us to add them to ignore, and we’re back to square one.

Short version…I agree with the OP totally.

Draygo.9473:

Implementing 3 would be a negative on the game. As it will be harder to contact people. For example if I want to catch a certain guild leader on another server when they are online its easier to add them to my friends list and pop them a pm when they get online. I’m not stalking them, just getting in contact. And as a guild leader myself and an officer in another guild I need to be contacted over all sorts of things, and for people to contact me its easier if they know I’m online or not before they try to send a message. All #3 does is impede these operations for no good reason, as your 4th suggestion would solve that problem.

They can always send you a mail.

Mirta.5029:

Snow White.9680:

2. No one should see your account name until you add them to friends. They party userface kind creeps me out.

3. When someone wants to add you to friends, IT SHOULD ASK YOUR PERMISSION before they are allowed to see your account name and every toon you log on.

I use my friends list to catch botters. If I see someone acting suspiciously I add them to friends list and if they start teleporting to nearby nodes I find their name on my friends list and report them. If these changes would be made catching botters would be so much harder.

This is so bizarre on so many levels. I don’t even think Cartman would do this if he played an mmo.

Oh and those accounts you are reporting are the only thing keeping things on the TP at a reasonable level. Bots are horrible but Anet should police it’s own game and not make it the responsibility of the players.

I just have to comment since this feels like such a weird topic. First of all yes, privacy is important, no matter where you are. I also agree that you should have to accept the friend request before they can actually see you.

Still, all this brings up a question: WHO and WHY would anyone actually “stalk” you in-game to that extent where you start to feel uncomfortable. If it’s some bitter brat who you kicked out of a party because he was slowing you and your partys progress, you could just easily report him. Or is it some other in-game drama, which I honestly don’t understand anyways.

Drew.1865:

Mirta.5029:

Snow White.9680:

2. No one should see your account name until you add them to friends. They party userface kind creeps me out.

3. When someone wants to add you to friends, IT SHOULD ASK YOUR PERMISSION before they are allowed to see your account name and every toon you log on.

I use my friends list to catch botters. If I see someone acting suspiciously I add them to friends list and if they start teleporting to nearby nodes I find their name on my friends list and report them. If these changes would be made catching botters would be so much harder.

This is so bizarre on so many levels. I don’t even think Cartman would do this if he played an mmo.

Oh and those accounts you are reporting are the only thing keeping things on the TP at a reasonable level. Bots are horrible but Anet should police it’s own game and not make it the responsibility of the players.

“keeping on a reasonable level” and preventing you from making money by selling those materials that you have gathered, yeah.
Though I do agree with your second statement. I feel as if the forum is over moderated and the game is under moderated, if we moved like 3/5ths of the moderators from the forum to the game so much more botters would get banned.

Mirta.5029:

Drew.1865:

Mirta.5029:

Snow White.9680:

2. No one should see your account name until you add them to friends. They party userface kind creeps me out.

3. When someone wants to add you to friends, IT SHOULD ASK YOUR PERMISSION before they are allowed to see your account name and every toon you log on.

I use my friends list to catch botters. If I see someone acting suspiciously I add them to friends list and if they start teleporting to nearby nodes I find their name on my friends list and report them. If these changes would be made catching botters would be so much harder.

This is so bizarre on so many levels. I don’t even think Cartman would do this if he played an mmo.

Oh and those accounts you are reporting are the only thing keeping things on the TP at a reasonable level. Bots are horrible but Anet should police it’s own game and not make it the responsibility of the players.

“keeping on a reasonable level” and preventing you from making money by selling those materials that you have gathered, yeah.
Though I do agree with your second statement. I feel as if the forum is over moderated and the game is under moderated, if we moved like 3/5ths of the moderators from the forum to the game so much more botters would get banned.

If only and it’s sad they don’t just ban any ip that is reported or seen to be botting. I think you have a lot of wisdom about mmos especially this one and could be having more fun and helping other players a lot more if Anet really cracked down on the bots.
It’s nice that you have passion about this game and it’s very admirable but it’s sad that the bots have been so bad you felt like you needed to do that to help.

Hicci.8761:

I just have to comment since this feels like such a weird topic. First of all yes, privacy is important, no matter where you are. I also agree that you should have to accept the friend request before they can actually see you.

Still, all this brings up a question: WHO and WHY would anyone actually “stalk” you in-game to that extent where you start feel uncomfortable…And why do you care? If it’s some bitter brat who you kicked out of a party because he was slowing you and your partys progress, you could just easily report him. Or is it some other in-game drama, which I honestly don’t understand anyways.

Does it really matter the reason they do it? The reason stalkers stalk, and bullies…bull…is really irrelevant here. What matters is the result it has on the person on the receiving end.

Bullying/stalking doesn’t always start in-game. Sometimes the game can simply become a convenient tool for these people to continue what they started previously.

For example, when my girlfriend was in university, she had a stalker that started in real life. As it progressed this person was able to use her forum nicknames and email addresses to see her online status. Eventually by using the information gathered online, he was able to find out, and purchase the games she was currently playing. This allowed him to further keep tabs on her, and because she lived alone, he was able to deduce that because she was online in-game, she was obviously at home, and would show up at her door.

This of course was quite a while back, and some things have changed in terms of privacy (she also learned better privacy techniques since then), but it may help to show how these things can progress.

The point is, we have to be very careful not to blame the victim in these situations. Brushing off privacy concerns by saying someone is being overly sensitive, stupid, unrealistic, unreasonable, dramatic, or whatever, takes the responsibility off the people who act without consent, and game developers.

I can understsand where you are coming from. Good thing for me is that when I log on my friends instantly message me saying hey and stuff, I can’t imagine how annoying it would be if someone who you didn’t want messaging you did.

Hopefully Anet can make your experience more positive by changing the security options.

As I mentioned above, I feel that privacy is a right of us all to enjoy…..therefore it does not need justifying.

Analyzing why the OP needs privacy is not the issue….it is that his/her privacy has been compromised through game inadequacies that is…regardless of whatever consequences ensued. Focusing on those consequences will not resolve the issue.

Oldbugga.7029:

Analyzing why the OP needs privacy is not the issue….it is that his/her privacy has been compromised through game inadequacies that is…regardless of whatever consequences ensued. Focusing on those consequences will not resolve the issue.

Bingo. Why are so many people here criticizing the OP’s feelings about privacy? That is completely irrelevant to this thread. Come on, GW2 friends, we all learned this in Internet Kindergarten…it’s called “derailing” and in the same species is that organism called “flaming.”

The only relevant thing to discuss is whether or not the feature should be added and why/why not. Criticizing the OP’s personal feelings has no place here.

Please, let’s all be friendly and support each other, even when we disagree.

Snow White.9680:

It is FAR too easy to stalk someone in this game.

-People can add you to friends without your knowledge or permission and see everything about you.

Thank you for bringing attention to this issue, Snow White. Several weeks after the game’s release, I discovered entries on my followers tab of people I did not know and had never spoken with. I then familiarized myself with the contact list’s features (I had never used it until then) and thought it very unsettling the account name, current character name, location, and achievement points are exposed without the player being asked to grant permission to that information – or be even notified that someone has it! I submitted a ticket through Anet’s support website inquiring how to disallow followers. The answer was you couldn’t, but to post a Suggestion.

Some time later in this post , a player who reported being stalked asked for means of removing entries from the contact list. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, some (not all) who replied treated this individual with little civility. My guess as to that behavior is that some are unsympathetic to concerns of others because they do not immediately apply to their own situations. This is regrettable because those types of responses can function to derail or mask a meritorious concern that is deserving of attention – but there you have it.

I hope for positive developments regarding privacy enhancements in future updates. Get Josh Forearm on it, that man knows how to get things done. (Oh, I’m just kidding with the misspelling, Mr. Foreman) Anyway, let’s keep our fingers crossed.

-Vawn

With all respect I understand the concern of your visibility but if blocking the person doesn’t stop them annoying you then you should report this to Arenanet so that can investigate and punish this player as this would be considered harassment.

If someone is simply being clingy or slightly annoying rather than full on harassing you then surely this is something you can deal with yourself by asking them to stop and if that does not work to block them? I mean if they still follow you around and annoy you in some way after that then that would be classified as harassment which you can report.

So yes perhaps you are more visible than necessary and it isn’t ideal but there is a system in place to deal with these kind of situations when they get out of hand and doesn’t really ‘need’ to be urgently improved on.

Especially when considering how a complete overhaul of this system would be very time consuming and resource expensive when there are so many other things in game that are in more need of attention because they are either completely absent or severely lacking/problematic in functionality.

So if you are being harassed I’m sorry to hear I’ve had it happen a few times myself before and it can really ruin your fun and be a terrible experience so really please do report these type of people.

Snow White.9680:

Draygo.9473:

Implementing 3 would be a negative on the game. As it will be harder to contact people. For example if I want to catch a certain guild leader on another server when they are online its easier to add them to my friends list and pop them a pm when they get online. I’m not stalking them, just getting in contact. And as a guild leader myself and an officer in another guild I need to be contacted over all sorts of things, and for people to contact me its easier if they know I’m online or not before they try to send a message. All #3 does is impede these operations for no good reason, as your 4th suggestion would solve that problem.

They can always send you a mail.

Mail has a limit of 10 messages, and often when you are trying to do an invite transaction its easier if both parties are online.

If blocking someone stops the ‘stalker’ from seeing you online, your location, and the ability to send you a message it will solve all your problems without possibly getting something implemented that could impede my fair use of the friends list.

hildegain.2106:

Buttercup.5871:

you’re stalking botters. Or, to put it more correctly, persons that you believe to be botters (sorry, I’m a lawyer, I couldn’t help myself)

I doubt that you’re a lawyer when you consider the 1-2minute checking of suspicious behaviour on a non-person to be “stalking”.

But, but, I am! Haha! The lawyer comment related to “persons you believe to be botters”. Because they’re not botters until Anet labels them as such (“innocent until proven guilty”, that kind of thing).

Now, whether your habit is to do “1-2 minute checking” is irrelevant; other people can do a 1-2 hour checking. It’s the potential use of this list that is tricky; your individual behaviour (or, more precisely, the behaviour as you state it to be on this forum, which may or may not be true for all we know) when using this list is entirely irrelevant in this context.