RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363
Too few players wanting difficult content?
And yet you don’t feel disenfranchised at all when they repeatedly add new things to the gem store?
Alrite then.
No, I don’t. Because I’m a pragmatist. The gem store is how the game is funded. Do I want the game to be funded. Hell yeah. I want the game to be funded. The game is funded by the gem store. Or did you think it was funded by the box you purchased more than two years ago?
You don’t seem to understand.
It is about adding features that are not available to people who are not willing to work for them – the same argument you’re applying to rewards bound to challenging content – in effect disenfranchising every single player (by forcing them to farm the gold for the covnersion, or to directly purchase gems), because none of those items are available directly in the game itself, which is actually far worse than binding a handful of items to challenging content.
Yet it seems to get a thumbs up from you, because you view it as something innately positive due to its intention without as much as paying half a regard to its consequences (the same consequences you, however, appear to be rather stuck up on when it comes to the challenging content rewards).
Ok.
RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363
You don’t seem to understand.
It is about adding features that are not available to people who are not willing to work for them – the same argument you’re applying to rewards bound to challenging content – in effect disenfranchising every single player (by forcing them to farm the gold for the covnersion, or to directly purchase gems), because none of those items are available directly in the game itself, which is actually far worse than binding a handful of items to challenging content.Yet it seems to get a thumbs up from you, because you view it as something innately positive due to its intention without as much as paying half a regard to its consequences (the same consequences you, however, appear to be rather stuck up on when it comes to the challenging content rewards).
Ok.
Obviously we don’t see eye to eye and we’re not going to see eye to eye. I see a business doing what it needs to do to support itself to provide a service I enjoy. You’re not enjoying that service, so it’s not worth it to you.
Just because we don’t agree, doesn’t mean I don’t understand. And saying it a million times won’t make it any more true.
You’re not addressing the point regardless how many times it is repeated, so I am left believing you simply do not understand it.
RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363
Rewards gated by challenging content are not equivalent to rewards gated by gem cost. Many players will never be able to complete content that is challenging for a game’s better players. In GW2 it takes no skill to accumulate gold for conversion to gems. Sure it may take a while to earn enough for a given gemstore purchase but time alone is insufficient for a player of average or below (by definition half of the player base are below average in ability) to complete content intended to be difficult for the best or better players.
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?
Because nobody is forcing you. You’re forcing yourself and it’s half funny and half sad.
I’m going to do something that’s probably going to ruin your game experience if what you wrote above is true.
I’m going to reveal the fact that : Currently the most profitable content in this game is the trading post – and anyone who wants to make money should learn how to play it and get spreadsheets and calculators and get cracking.If what you wrote above is true – you’re going to become a TP guy right? Hardly.
You know, I know, everybody knows the TP is where it’s at yet I don’t find myself getting a master’s in economics any time soon. And neither will you.
The bottom line is this " pressure " you speak of is something you’re putting on yourself – and it’s a pretty far cry from the casual laid back Vayne you make yourself out to be on the forums.
Nobody is forcing you to play what you don’t like.
Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?
And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?
Why should you enjoy yourself over me?
I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.
It’s rather hilarious, really.
When one mentions how the game implemented vertical gear progression with fractals and thus even further restricted building freedom, the apologists hurry to defend such design choices by claiming ‘oh but you don’t need it to play the game’, yet in the same moment you see such nuggets of hypocrisy flying around from the very same posters.
I really like it how nicely you exposed those double standards.
You do realize I dislike the concept of vertical progression and the fact that FOTM introduced it. I dislike the fact that a few months after launch we got new items with better stats to go for.
How is that having double standards?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
You’re not addressing the point regardless how many times it is repeated, so I am left believing you simply do not understand it.
You keep repeating a point I’ve addressed many times. I can only assume you don’t understand my answer. It’s either that or you’re attempting to deliberately troll me. Either way, this is my last post to you. As usual, you only hear what you want to hear.
How bad could it be if ‘harder’ content gave better rewards? If it is limited to a daily bouncy chest, like a dungeon, I cannot imagine it destroying all of Tyria. Unique rewards would be the kicker. It would be nice if everyone had ways to get it, like a pvp reward track. I’d certainly take a reward track to get a molten jetpack. Or the sale idea people had earlier. I’d just make the theoretical unique drop common enough that the price isn’t too absurd.
I’m rather partial to Zerg content. Most of my game time is spent in Cursed Shore, FSG, Dry Top, and the World Boss tour. The open world Zerg makes me feel like I’m almost raiding except with out the commitment to organized runs, or the toxicity of WoWs looking for Raid.
Whatever gets done it needs to require less people to accomplish. If group requirements are too large then content eventually becomes dead and undo-able. This game desperately needs a auto-matching system similar to Tera. The original complaint about getting bad groups is irrelevant. Not being able to do the content because of no groups is much worse on the game experience. Finally harder content MUST have better rewards otherwise what is the point. If people can blow through content 10 times as fast on easy and get similar rewards why waste the time with harder content. Ultimately this is the issue, people will always do the easiest most beneficial content.
Whatever gets done it needs to require less people to accomplish. If group requirements are too large then content eventually becomes dead and undo-able. This game desperately needs a auto-matching system similar to Tera. The original complaint about getting bad groups is irrelevant. Not being able to do the content because of no groups is much worse on the game experience. Finally harder content MUST have better rewards otherwise what is the point. If people can blow through content 10 times as fast on easy and get similar rewards why waste the time with harder content. Ultimately this is the issue, people will always do the easiest most beneficial content.
Which content one does is a choice. If someone follows the path of least resistance, then one chose that option. If the point is to be challenged, then the challenge itself would be the reward. But, many players don’t roll that way and want the whole ball of wax. Once the initial challenge is overcome, only rewards make repeating the challenge palatable.
If someone truly wanted the rush of facing challenge and stretching themselves, they’d play PvP. Opposing players are always going to adapt and throw new wrinkles at players. Thus, the physiological rush inherent to facing challenge is most always available. PvE cannot provide that with the current state of programming. This is true in raid games also, with the exception that mastery might take longer (at least until someone reads the fan site walk-through). Tell me people don’t get bored with raids once the raid is on farm.
Throw in that many who want hard content are going to be among those who will master new hard content quickly. When you do, you have an audience that is insatiable, hard to please and demanding. Case in point — virtually every piece of content added going back to SSC has upped the difficulty level (compared to launch mobs) to some degree. There are always complaints about the added content being too hard. Yet, the “more challenge” players soon chime in, complaining it’s too easy. No duh! You mastered it, then demanded more. Insatiable.
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?
Because nobody is forcing you. You’re forcing yourself and it’s half funny and half sad.
I’m going to do something that’s probably going to ruin your game experience if what you wrote above is true.
I’m going to reveal the fact that : Currently the most profitable content in this game is the trading post – and anyone who wants to make money should learn how to play it and get spreadsheets and calculators and get cracking.If what you wrote above is true – you’re going to become a TP guy right? Hardly.
You know, I know, everybody knows the TP is where it’s at yet I don’t find myself getting a master’s in economics any time soon. And neither will you.
The bottom line is this " pressure " you speak of is something you’re putting on yourself – and it’s a pretty far cry from the casual laid back Vayne you make yourself out to be on the forums.
Nobody is forcing you to play what you don’t like.
Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?
And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?
Why should you enjoy yourself over me?
I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.
It’s rather hilarious, really.
When one mentions how the game implemented vertical gear progression with fractals and thus even further restricted building freedom, the apologists hurry to defend such design choices by claiming ‘oh but you don’t need it to play the game’, yet in the same moment you see such nuggets of hypocrisy flying around from the very same posters.
I really like it how nicely you exposed those double standards.You do realize I dislike the concept of vertical progression and the fact that FOTM introduced it. I dislike the fact that a few months after launch we got new items with better stats to go for.
How is that having double standards?
You misunderstood me, as I was actually approving and supporting your post.
I simply stated how your post pointed out the hypocrisy of people who tend to be apologetic of things such as ascended gear and typically invoke the ‘but you don’t need it to play the game’ argument, while at the same time they refuse to have cosmetics/minipets added as reward to a newly implemented challenging content, which would be even less impactful to one’s ability to play the game (as they do not compel the player to get said items in order to be able to play the game as such).
On second read, I can see how I worded the post in a rather bad manner though. My bad.
you only hear what you want to hear.
And you’re the prime example of that.
RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363
(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
I like to do FotM for the skins although there’s a lot of skins I haven’t acquired yet. It gives me a rewarding purpose.
Every single apologist argues how ascended is fine because it is not a requirement, and there you are arguing how players would feel forced/compelled getting an item of purely cosmetic value just because it is new (?).
Personally, I would value a cool purely cosmetic option WAAAAAAAAAAAY above a minor statistical difference. If you were to tell me I could have a free Southsun Kasmeer mini, OR a free Sunrise skin that I could only apply to a green stat GS, OR a full set of ascended armor with my ideal stat build, the ascended armor would be far in last place on that list. Don’t consider stats to be some universally valued trait.
How bad could it be if ‘harder’ content gave better rewards? If it is limited to a daily bouncy chest, like a dungeon, I cannot imagine it destroying all of Tyria.
It depends. How much more do you believe someone doing his daily “hard” content should get than someone spending the same amount of time doing “normal” content? And how much would that add up to over a week, month, or year?
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Mai Thrin, Liadri, Imbued Flame Shaman – these all are amazing bosses that showcase the best GW2 combat can offer, it requires team work, coordination,
Too bad instead on expanding on these kinds of bosses they continue to add “spam 1” monsters.
Mai Thrin, Liadri, Imbued Flame Shaman – these all are amazing bosses that showcase the best GW2 combat can offer, it requires team work, coordination,
Too bad instead on expanding on these kinds of bosses they continue to add “spam 1” monsters.
How about Triple Threat? That was added after the others.
Really? What is the problem with having challenging content? This game is full of stuff you can easily do with your eyes closed, why not have something so veteran players can do besides farming skins and AP?
If you don’t like raids or you think they’re not for you, fine. Don’t participate in that part of the game. I do the same with Ranked PvP. It’s not my thing and I don’t care about Esports, so just I do something else.
(edited by Davey.7029)
Really? What is the problem with having challenging content? This game is full of stuff you can easily do with your eyes closed, why not have something so veteran players can do besides farming skins and AP?
If you don’t like raids or you think they’re not for you, fine. Don’t participate in that part of the game. I do the same with Ranked PvP. It’s not my thing and I don’t care about Esports, so just I do something else.
the jelly haters who are bad at the game want everything without effort.
thats the problem.
It’s when the game has too many of these little things and casuals start feeling disenfranchised. You think it won’t happen, I think it might happen.
99% of this game is easy mode content spam 11111 win game.
its when the game only has easy mode content and the veterans start feeling disenfranchised.
seriously dude….
[qT] Quantify
(edited by NoTrigger.8396)
Really? What is the problem with having challenging content? This game is full of stuff you can easily do with your eyes closed, why not have something so veteran players can do besides farming skins and AP?
If you don’t like raids or you think they’re not for you, fine. Don’t participate in that part of the game. I do the same with Ranked PvP. It’s not my thing and I don’t care about Esports, so just I do something else.
the jelly haters who are bad at the game want everything without effort.
thats the problem.It’s when the game has too many of these little things and casuals start feeling disenfranchised. You think it won’t happen, I think it might happen.
99% of this game is easy mode content spam 11111 win game.
its when the game only has easy mode content and the veterans start feeling disenfranchised.seriously dude….
You’re assuming all veterans want challenging content. It’s a kittenumption. The question isn’t whether you feel disenfranchised but how many people by percentage do.
If it’s 5-10% of the playerbase, it might not be enough to justify a whole lot of challenging content.
You do realize I dislike the concept of vertical progression and the fact that FOTM introduced it. I dislike the fact that a few months after launch we got new items with better stats to go for.
How is that having double standards?
That was actually aimed at Vayne, i guess. Who is hypocritical in his defending of ascended gear (even when he himself claims not to like them).
For me, the hard to get/content limited better stat gear is even worse than what we’re talking about here, because it adds vertical progression on top of narrow and stringent acquisition methods. And two wrongs don’t make a right.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Too bad instead on expanding on these kinds of bosses they continue to add “spam 1” monsters.
So, what “spam 1” bosses have been added to the game this year?
the jelly haters who are bad at the game want everything without effort.
And the selfish elitists want everything of value to be available only for them and them alone.
See? I can play the strawman game as well.
its when the game only has easy mode content and the veterans start feeling disenfranchised.
Some veterans perhaps. Some don’t. Please, don’t assume that everyone wants the same things as you.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
k now tell me please where i said that i want everything of value only available for me?
and you probably dont even know what elitist means.
if we get challenging content the content will be there for everyone who decides to play it. nobody will force you to do it.
and thats what you guys dont understand because you only see what you want to see.
seriously get your kitten together.
You’re assuming all veterans want challenging content. It’s a kittenumption. The question isn’t whether you feel disenfranchised but how many people by percentage do.
If it’s 5-10% of the playerbase, it might not be enough to justify a whole lot of challenging content.
2 years and 99% of easy mode content and then the forum gets flooded by waves of tears as soon as people ask for a little bit of challenging content…
more egoistic please.
[qT] Quantify
(edited by NoTrigger.8396)
k now tell me please where i said that i want everything of value only available for me?
Tell me where the other side in the discussion said they want everything for no effort?
Besides, what i said is generally true – if you look at all the reward topics lately, you will see posts clearly stating, that stuff that others can get is of no value to those posters.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Tell me where the other side in the discussion said they want everything for no effort?
what else is the meaning behind “i dont want you guys to get challenging content and have fun because i dont need it” comments?
think about it. the prime example is mr.beldin in this thread.
[qT] Quantify
(edited by NoTrigger.8396)
You do realize I dislike the concept of vertical progression and the fact that FOTM introduced it. I dislike the fact that a few months after launch we got new items with better stats to go for.
How is that having double standards?That was actually aimed at Vayne, i guess. Who is hypocritical in his defending of ascended gear (even when he himself claims not to like them).
For me, the hard to get/content limited better stat gear is even worse than what we’re talking about here, because it adds vertical progression on top of narrow and stringent acquisition methods. And two wrongs don’t make a right.
Okay, let me ask you. How is it hypocritcal to say I don’t like something but I understand why it was done? Trying to make someone look bad because you don’t agre with them is just not on.
I understand why the government of Australia has made certain cuts to budget. I don’t like those cuts to budget, but I understand the necessity of them.
I don’t defend the cuts to budget, I just don’t complain about it, because I understand there was a reason.
Other budget cuts I feel are too important to cut and I do protest against those.
I don’t like the ascended gear, but I understand why Anet felt they needed to put it in. I still don’t think they’re right for doing so. But I understand. If you call that hypocritical, I’d say it says more about you than me.
Really? What is the problem with having challenging content? This game is full of stuff you can easily do with your eyes closed, why not have something so veteran players can do besides farming skins and AP?
If you don’t like raids or you think they’re not for you, fine. Don’t participate in that part of the game. I do the same with Ranked PvP. It’s not my thing and I don’t care about Esports, so just I do something else.
the jelly haters who are bad at the game want everything without effort.
thats the problem.It’s when the game has too many of these little things and casuals start feeling disenfranchised. You think it won’t happen, I think it might happen.
99% of this game is easy mode content spam 11111 win game.
its when the game only has easy mode content and the veterans start feeling disenfranchised.seriously dude….
You’re assuming all veterans want challenging content. It’s a kittenumption. The question isn’t whether you feel disenfranchised but how many people by percentage do.
If it’s 5-10% of the playerbase, it might not be enough to justify a whole lot of challenging content.
Yes, I assume a lot of people want challenging content. After1-2 years of repeating the same dungeons and fractals, I think they want something new, something that probably will last them longer and that they can repeat and enjoy.
And look, this doesn’t have to be only for the PvE Elite. There are ways of implementing something like this so everyone can do it. A very popular MMORPG does it with Normal and Hard modes, but there are also other alternatives. This way everyone wins.
Really? What is the problem with having challenging content? This game is full of stuff you can easily do with your eyes closed, why not have something so veteran players can do besides farming skins and AP?
If you don’t like raids or you think they’re not for you, fine. Don’t participate in that part of the game. I do the same with Ranked PvP. It’s not my thing and I don’t care about Esports, so just I do something else.
the jelly haters who are bad at the game want everything without effort.
thats the problem.It’s when the game has too many of these little things and casuals start feeling disenfranchised. You think it won’t happen, I think it might happen.
99% of this game is easy mode content spam 11111 win game.
its when the game only has easy mode content and the veterans start feeling disenfranchised.seriously dude….
You’re assuming all veterans want challenging content. It’s a kittenumption. The question isn’t whether you feel disenfranchised but how many people by percentage do.
If it’s 5-10% of the playerbase, it might not be enough to justify a whole lot of challenging content.
Yes, I assume a lot of people want challenging content. After1-2 years of repeating the same dungeons and fractals, I think they want something new, something that probably will last them longer and that they can repeat and enjoy.
And look, this doesn’t have to be only for the PvE Elite. There are ways of implementing something like this so everyone can do it. A very popular MMORPG does it with Normal and Hard modes, but there are also other alternatives. This way everyone wins.
Oh I agree a lot of people want new stuff, but that’s not the conversation we’re having here. The question is how many of those people really want to be challenged and what percentage of them are talking about the same level of challenge.
Would you believe there are people in this game for which dungeons are still challenging?
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?
Because nobody is forcing you. You’re forcing yourself and it’s half funny and half sad.
I’m going to do something that’s probably going to ruin your game experience if what you wrote above is true.
I’m going to reveal the fact that : Currently the most profitable content in this game is the trading post – and anyone who wants to make money should learn how to play it and get spreadsheets and calculators and get cracking.If what you wrote above is true – you’re going to become a TP guy right? Hardly.
You know, I know, everybody knows the TP is where it’s at yet I don’t find myself getting a master’s in economics any time soon. And neither will you.
The bottom line is this " pressure " you speak of is something you’re putting on yourself – and it’s a pretty far cry from the casual laid back Vayne you make yourself out to be on the forums.
Nobody is forcing you to play what you don’t like.
Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?
And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?
Why should you enjoy yourself over me?
I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.
It’s rather hilarious, really.
When one mentions how the game implemented vertical gear progression with fractals and thus even further restricted building freedom, the apologists hurry to defend such design choices by claiming ‘oh but you don’t need it to play the game’, yet in the same moment you see such nuggets of hypocrisy flying around from the very same posters.
I really like it how nicely you exposed those double standards.You do realize I dislike the concept of vertical progression and the fact that FOTM introduced it. I dislike the fact that a few months after launch we got new items with better stats to go for.
How is that having double standards?You misunderstood me, as I was actually approving and supporting your post.
I simply stated how your post pointed out the hypocrisy of people who tend to be apologetic of things such as ascended gear and typically invoke the ‘but you don’t need it to play the game’ argument, while at the same time they refuse to have cosmetics/minipets added as reward to a newly implemented challenging content, which would be even less impactful to one’s ability to play the game (as they do not compel the player to get said items in order to be able to play the game as such).
On second read, I can see how I worded the post in a rather bad manner though. My bad.you only hear what you want to hear.
And you’re the prime example of that.
No problem. It’s cool. I get what you mean now.
And yes – I do dislike the attitude of forgiving and overlooking most bad calls and mistakes with this game.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Really? What is the problem with having challenging content? This game is full of stuff you can easily do with your eyes closed, why not have something so veteran players can do besides farming skins and AP?
If you don’t like raids or you think they’re not for you, fine. Don’t participate in that part of the game. I do the same with Ranked PvP. It’s not my thing and I don’t care about Esports, so just I do something else.
the jelly haters who are bad at the game want everything without effort.
thats the problem.It’s when the game has too many of these little things and casuals start feeling disenfranchised. You think it won’t happen, I think it might happen.
99% of this game is easy mode content spam 11111 win game.
its when the game only has easy mode content and the veterans start feeling disenfranchised.seriously dude….
You’re assuming all veterans want challenging content. It’s a kittenumption. The question isn’t whether you feel disenfranchised but how many people by percentage do.
If it’s 5-10% of the playerbase, it might not be enough to justify a whole lot of challenging content.
Yes, I assume a lot of people want challenging content. After1-2 years of repeating the same dungeons and fractals, I think they want something new, something that probably will last them longer and that they can repeat and enjoy.
And look, this doesn’t have to be only for the PvE Elite. There are ways of implementing something like this so everyone can do it. A very popular MMORPG does it with Normal and Hard modes, but there are also other alternatives. This way everyone wins.
Oh I agree a lot of people want new stuff, but that’s not the conversation we’re having here. The question is how many of those people really want to be challenged and what percentage of them are talking about the same level of challenge.
Would you believe there are people in this game for which dungeons are still challenging?
Yes, I know for some people dungeons can still be challenging, but this challenging content could be implemented in a way so those people can still experience it. We have something like that already in the game and it’s called fractals. People can go for the level 1-9 or even 10-19 if they feel like it, while others will probably want something more challenging that actually tests them as a player, the same way Liadri did (and other queen pavillion bosses), so they will probably play higher level fractals.
Fractals are fun, but after 2 years I think some people want more challenging and exciting content. I don’t think that would do any harm. On the contrary, some actually quit the game because they think it doesn’t have anything to offer to them.
(edited by Davey.7029)
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
snip.
And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?
Because nobody is forcing you. You’re forcing yourself and it’s half funny and half sad.
I’m going to do something that’s probably going to ruin your game experience if what you wrote above is true.
I’m going to reveal the fact that : Currently the most profitable content in this game is the trading post – and anyone who wants to make money should learn how to play it and get spreadsheets and calculators and get cracking.snip
Nobody is forcing you to play what you don’t like.
Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?
And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?
Why should you enjoy yourself over me?
I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.
It’s rather hilarious, really.
When one mentions how the game implemented vertical gear progression with fractals and thus even further restricted building freedom, the apologists hurry to defend such design choices by claiming ‘oh but you don’t need it to play the game’, yet in the same moment you see such nuggets of hypocrisy flying around from the very same posters.
I really like it how nicely you exposed those double standards.You do realize I dislike the concept of vertical progression and the fact that FOTM introduced it. I dislike the fact that a few months after launch we got new items with better stats to go for.
How is that having double standards?You misunderstood me, as I was actually approving and supporting your post.
I simply stated how your post pointed out the hypocrisy of people who tend to be apologetic of things such as ascended gear and typically invoke the ‘but you don’t need it to play the game’ argument, while at the same time they refuse to have cosmetics/minipets added as reward to a newly implemented challenging content, which would be even less impactful to one’s ability to play the game (as they do not compel the player to get said items in order to be able to play the game as such).
On second read, I can see how I worded the post in a rather bad manner though. My bad.you only hear what you want to hear.
And you’re the prime example of that.
No problem. It’s cool. I get what you mean now.
And yes – I do dislike the attitude of forgiving and overlooking most bad calls and mistakes with this game.
When I was younger, I was much harder on people. If people screwed up, I tended not to give much quarter. Maybe the first time. But my tolerance was pretty kitten ed low.
As I got older and started seeing more and more people not able to live up to standards I thought were normal, I began to realize that the only one my intolerance was hurting was myself. A good percentage of people aren’t going to meet high expectations..that’s why they’re high expectations.
Anet has over 300 employees working for them and they all have different levels of experience and expertise. There’s also probably a relatively high turnover. That’s business. The QA department is quite probably overworked and underpaid. They’re going to miss stuff…even if they had more time. I could be furious and jump up and down or I can say, well, I’m not in their shoes, I have no idea how hard their job is, how long they’ve been doing it for, how much renumeration they get for doing it, or any of a million other things. For all I know they reported bugs which were fixed and then got rebugged when someone else changed something else. I don’t know. So I give people the benefit of the doubt these days.
Back when I managed a business, I wasn’t nearly this forgiving….so yeah I get it.
You do realize I dislike the concept of vertical progression and the fact that FOTM introduced it. I dislike the fact that a few months after launch we got new items with better stats to go for.
How is that having double standards?That was actually aimed at Vayne, i guess. Who is hypocritical in his defending of ascended gear (even when he himself claims not to like them).
For me, the hard to get/content limited better stat gear is even worse than what we’re talking about here, because it adds vertical progression on top of narrow and stringent acquisition methods. And two wrongs don’t make a right.
Okay, let me ask you. How is it hypocritcal to say I don’t like something but I understand why it was done? Trying to make someone look bad because you don’t agre with them is just not on.
I understand why the government of Australia has made certain cuts to budget. I don’t like those cuts to budget, but I understand the necessity of them.
I don’t defend the cuts to budget, I just don’t complain about it, because I understand there was a reason.
Other budget cuts I feel are too important to cut and I do protest against those.
I don’t like the ascended gear, but I understand why Anet felt they needed to put it in. I still don’t think they’re right for doing so. But I understand. If you call that hypocritical, I’d say it says more about you than me.
So then the only problem here is that you don’t understand why exclusive rewards should exist and be offered when completing difficult content.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
To sum up Harper’s point(s) so far:
In adding unique rewards linked to challenging content, a player would not be forced to obtain a special pet, title, or cosmetics, as it would not reduce or hinder their viability/desirability of their class nor the ability to play the game as such.
Yet many oppose adding challenging content with unique rewards – even if it would not constitute gear threadmill or other forms of vertical progression – merely because they would
1) feel "compelled/forced to get it (however that is an ’it’s all in your head’ issue), and/or
2) they might not be able to obtain it (although it is generally agreed that completionists are a minority of the playerbase).
However these same players have no issues with pvp-only rewards nor with gem-store additions, and much else with the ill-designed rewarding system (the most rewarding content atm seems to boil down to Tp flipping, Champ train, EOTM and Ascended mats, which can be summed up as rather boring and extremely unchallenging ways of playing the game).
Dat sense, much logic.
The main Q Harper was asking, and which (to my knowledge) remained unanswered was why was it inherently wrong that challenging content gives better rewards, but not inherently wrong that unchallenging content gives better rewards.
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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
rekt.
[qT] Quantify
The main Q Harper was asking, and which (to my knowledge) remained unanswered was why was it inherently wrong that challenging content gives better rewards, but not inherently wrong that unchallenging content gives better rewards.
No one said it’s inherently wrong. It might however be inherently bad for business, which would be Anet’s main concern.
No one said it’s wrong to reward people for playing harder content. I certainly have never said it. I’m saying that whether it’s wrong or it’s not wrong, if there’s enough of it,. a certain percentage of people might feel disenfranchised and think the game is no longer for them. How big a percentage of the playerbase would feel that way I don’t know…but I suspect it’s as larger or larger than the percentage of the player base that want those rewards.
This isn’t a moral discussion about right and wrong. It’s a question about are there enough players to support a hard core play style and by doing so, will other players, rightly or wrongly, be affected.
I didn’t answer the question because it’s not actually relevant to Anet’s decision on the matter…in my opinion.
I’m saying that whether it’s wrong or it’s not wrong, if there’s enough of it,. a certain percentage of people might feel disenfranchised and think the game is no longer for them.
just how veterans feel disenfranchised and think the game is no longer for them because 99% of the game is easy mode content and they have nothing to do?
It’s a question about are there enough players to support a hard core play style and by doing so, will other players, rightly or wrongly, be affected.
how can optional content with optional rewards affect players who decide to not play the optional content? especially in this game without gear thread mill?
kkkkkkkkkk
[qT] Quantify
(edited by NoTrigger.8396)
Vayne you say that you’d feel forced to get the new items (are you a compeltionist?), despite the fact it would not mean any statistical change, which boils down to the ’it’s all in your head’ issue, and that doesn’t quite hold water because, as people say with ascended and gem store cosmetics, you’re able to play the game perfectly well without any of the fluff .
Moreover, it’d be impossible to topple the amount of features and items available to everyone, especially with their glacial pace of adding new things to the actual game, so why so concerned?
As NoTrigger said, it’s optional. And we can all agree that those ‘optionals’ will never be able to outnumber the ‘generally availables’.
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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
Vayne you say that you’d feel forced to get the new items (are you a compeltionist?), despite the fact it would not mean any statistical change, which boils down to the ’it’s all in your head’ issue, and that doesn’t quite hold water because, as people say with ascended and gem store cosmetics, you’re able to play the game perfectly well without any of the fluff .
Moreover, it’d be impossible to topple the amount of features and items available to everyone, especially with their glacial pace of adding new things to the actual game, so why so concerned?
As NoTrigger said, it’s optional. And we can all agree that those ‘optionals’ will never be able to outnumber the ‘generally availables’.
I didn’t say forced…I said pressured. As long as you continue to misquote me, I’ll continue to correct you. I’m also pretty sure I didn’t say I’d feel pressured, I said people would feel pressured.
People right now, at this moment, have posted in this very forum saying that they feel pressured to do dailies, even though they clearly don’t need to do them. Some people feel pressured to do even more dailies than the five required to get their laurel.
Do I think that’s silly. Sure I do. If you like doing them, do them. If you don’t like doing them don’t do them. You can’t account for everyone.
I’m saying I think the percentage of people who would feel pressured to do that,. whether it’s right or not, whether it’s justifiable or not,. whether you understand it or not, is all irrelevent…people are not logical. They’re not wind up dolls. They’re not machines. They have feelings and emotions. These games play…and are often designed to play…on those feelings and emotions.
People who are completionists, who are OCD, or who min/maxers, every one of these groups can be manipulated to do content they don’t like to do.
And some people are okay with that and some people aren’t.
It doesn’t matter if it’s right. It doesn’t matter that you don’t get it. It’s out there. It happens. That’s not my opinion, that’s a fact.
The only fact here is that adding minipets, titles, or cosmetics to challenging content would in no way affect your character’s performance, or their desirability/viability in groups.
If one is a completionist or a min/maxer then I suppose they will have to bite the bullet (at least they’d have something to strive for, though), just like the vets had to ‘suck it up’ each time content was implemented which wasn’t aimed at them and which even went sof ar as to spoil their game experience.
p.s. You stated in one of your posts that you yourself would feel pressured into a particular challenging content – how you absolutely intend to complete it, actually – if it were implemented:
If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
I do wonder, in all honesty, how that would change ‘the entire dynamic of the game. For you, perhaps? Because you have an atypical way of playing the game (completionist). But wouldn’t that by default place you in this rumoured minority you keep on bringing up when advocating for or against changes?
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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
The only fact here is that adding minipets, titles, or cosmetics to challenging content would in no way affect your character’s performance, or their desirability/viability in groups.
If one is a completionist or a min/maxer then I suppose they will have to bite the bullet (at least they’d have something to strive for, though), just like the vets had to ‘suck it up’ each time content was implemented which wasn’t aimed at them and which even went sof ar as to spoil their game experience.
p.s. You stated in one of your posts that you yourself would feel pressured into a particular challenging content – how you absolutely intend to complete it, actually – if it were implemented:
If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.I do wonder, in all honesty, how that would change ‘the entire dynamic of the game. For you, perhaps? Because you have an atypical way of playing the game (completionist). But wouldn’t that by default place you in this rumoured minority you keep on bringing up when advocating for or against changes?
The fact that you claim that’s the only fact makes your other comments automatically suspect. There are many facts. You choose to see only one.
If you maintain there is only one fact, there is absolutely no reason to discuss anything with you.
Not quite.
It’s purely an objective matter that your statistical performance is not affected by cosmetics, titles, or minipets (unless they’d by some rather silly decision grant the user special bonuses).
It is however subjective to say you feel forced/compelled to play challenging content just so you can have everything completed. It is also subjective to say players would feel disenfranchised if a couple of such features were to be implemented (some might, but you cannot say with certainty how many that would be, nor can you prove it would have serious negative impacts on the game, i.e. gemstore revenues).
My point, which is basicaly Harper’s point, is that adding in challenging content with unique rewards would not hinder you to play your game, because it’d be completely optional and would not add to vertical progression. That is pure logic. Now, if I take your approach to putting everything in % and playerbase minority vs majority , I dare say that the number of vets who would benefit from such change would dwarf the number of disappointed completionists by far, and it is an estimate I consider quite accurate.
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Not quite.
It’s purely an objective matter that your statistical performance is not affected by cosmetics, titles, or minipets (unless they’d by some rather silly decision grant the user special bonuses).
It is however subjective to say you feel forced/compelled to play challenging content just so you can have everything completed. It is also subjective to say players would feel disenfranchised if a couple of such features were to be implemented (some might, but you cannot say with certainty how many that would be, nor can you prove it would have serious negative impacts on the game, i.e. gemstore revenues).My point, which is basicaly Harper’s point, is that adding in challenging content with unique rewards would not hinder you to play your game, because it’d be completely optional and would not add to vertical progression. That is pure logic. Now, if I take your approach to putting everything in % and playerbase minority vs majority , I dare say that the number of vets who would benefit from such change would dwarf the number of disappointed completionists by far, and it is an estimate I consider quite accurate.
But to say that the only fact is intentionally misleading. It’s a fact that completionists exist. That’s not theory, that’s a fact. It’s a fact even that some people will do content they don’t enjoy to get rewards. If you think those aren’t facts, I’m not really sure what to tell you.
The fact that your statistical performance isn’t increased or decreased is mostly relevant to min/maxers and people who care about stats. Are they are majority? A minority? Clearly, you’re one of the people to whom stats are massively important, so you come to the erroneous conclusion that it’s okay to have rewards that other people want, because they don’t need them.
But you don’t need those stats, even if they are better. It’s not a fact that you need them. It’s your desire for them. It’s that you want them. It wouldn’t be okay to you if these rewards gave higher stats. And that’s the difference. There are people who care less about stats and more about minipets or skins. That’s also a fact, by the way.
So your suggestion that they give no reward means you don’t need them is just your opinion. You don’t need higher stats, but you’re basically saying you would if they offered them.
That’s what we’re arguing about. You think your way is the only way. I think the issue is more complex.
Not quite.
It’s purely an objective matter that your statistical performance is not affected by cosmetics, titles, or minipets (unless they’d by some rather silly decision grant the user special bonuses).
It is however subjective to say you feel forced/compelled to play challenging content just so you can have everything completed. It is also subjective to say players would feel disenfranchised if a couple of such features were to be implemented (some might, but you cannot say with certainty how many that would be, nor can you prove it would have serious negative impacts on the game, i.e. gemstore revenues).My point, which is basicaly Harper’s point, is that adding in challenging content with unique rewards would not hinder you to play your game, because it’d be completely optional and would not add to vertical progression. That is pure logic. Now, if I take your approach to putting everything in % and playerbase minority vs majority , I dare say that the number of vets who would benefit from such change would dwarf the number of disappointed completionists by far, and it is an estimate I consider quite accurate.
But to say that the only fact is intentionally misleading. It’s a fact that completionists exist. That’s not theory, that’s a fact. It’s a fact even that some people will do content they don’t enjoy to get rewards. If you think those aren’t facts, I’m not really sure what to tell you.
The fact that your statistical performance isn’t increased or decreased is mostly relevant to min/maxers and people who care about stats. Are they are majority? A minority? Clearly, you’re one of the people to whom stats are massively important, so you come to the erroneous conclusion that it’s okay to have rewards that other people want, because they don’t need them.
But you don’t need those stats, even if they are better. It’s not a fact that you need them. It’s your desire for them. It’s that you want them. It wouldn’t be okay to you if these rewards gave higher stats. And that’s the difference. There are people who care less about stats and more about minipets or skins. That’s also a fact, by the way.
So your suggestion that they give no reward means you don’t need them is just your opinion. You don’t need higher stats, but you’re basically saying you would if they offered them.
That’s what we’re arguing about. You think your way is the only way. I think the issue is more complex.
thing here is, the game already does this. They already lose customers based on having the best rewards behind repetitive simple tasks.
Now i understand you have agreed that it may not be right, but you theorize it may be best for business.
I disagree whole heartedly, most casual players, are either satisfied taking longer, or are perfectly ok with their being higher levels of something that only people with more time/interest/energy can achieve.
Do 10 year olds quit lego because they make advanced lego kits IN ADDITION to their low end kits?
DOes the existence of high end super detailed expensive car models make people quit buying matchbox cars?
Does having optional super hard to beat bosses in final fantasy 7 make people not finish the game?
The most played facebook game right now has like 2000 levels and has extreme difficulties in addition to normal difficulty.
Do you think the casual players here are unique? somehow they are not heavily invested in the game, but are heavily invested in possible item dropping?
lets be honest, this is a battle of hardcore players of different types, because for the casual player something that requires them to grind 2000 hours, is probably a lot more unlikely than something that requires them to master hard levels that last 1 hour each. In fact most of those players will be able to be carried by people good enough.
If only 5% of the population is interested in raids in LOTRO, i think only 5% of the population is interested in getting every visual/mini/title in the game. So its a battle of the completitionist who doesnt like hard content versus the people who like hard content, neither of them = the majority of players.
Vayne, naturally, there are all kinds of players, but that’s beside the point. After all, even with you it always comes down to % – will more players welcome the change or be disenfranchised (phys addressed that point nicely, as it probably is but a battle of minorities).
I think you are somewhat lost in your posts – one of the main issues at hand is that people are being apologetic about the idea behind additions such as the ascended gear – even if they are not being supportive of vertical progress as such – under the pretext it is not required to be viable or to play every part of the game. Yet those same people seem to have an issue if challenging content was to be implemented which wouldn’t be easily available.
I merely echo Harper in holding up a mirror to show the double standard and the irrationality of such a stance.
I read countless posts claiming how adding new things to the gem store is fine because it’s part of the ‘business strategy’, yet they all refuse to acknowledge the fact it also disenfranchises a lot of players who expect more actual content rather than gem store additions or boring/repetitive grind (again, phys addressed that point nicely).
p.s. It is a strawman to say everyone who does not want challenging content would automatically want the reward – only the completionists would, and they’re without doubt a minority.
Edit: Shortened the original size of the psot, because I ended up somewhat lost in it too.
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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
Whatever gets done it needs to require less people to accomplish. If group requirements are too large then content eventually becomes dead and undo-able. This game desperately needs a auto-matching system similar to Tera. The original complaint about getting bad groups is irrelevant. Not being able to do the content because of no groups is much worse on the game experience. Finally harder content MUST have better rewards otherwise what is the point. If people can blow through content 10 times as fast on easy and get similar rewards why waste the time with harder content. Ultimately this is the issue, people will always do the easiest most beneficial content.
Which content one does is a choice. If someone follows the path of least resistance, then one chose that option. If the point is to be challenged, then the challenge itself would be the reward. But, many players don’t roll that way and want the whole ball of wax. Once the initial challenge is overcome, only rewards make repeating the challenge palatable.
If someone truly wanted the rush of facing challenge and stretching themselves, they’d play PvP. Opposing players are always going to adapt and throw new wrinkles at players. Thus, the physiological rush inherent to facing challenge is most always available. PvE cannot provide that with the current state of programming. This is true in raid games also, with the exception that mastery might take longer (at least until someone reads the fan site walk-through). Tell me people don’t get bored with raids once the raid is on farm.
Throw in that many who want hard content are going to be among those who will master new hard content quickly. When you do, you have an audience that is insatiable, hard to please and demanding. Case in point — virtually every piece of content added going back to SSC has upped the difficulty level (compared to launch mobs) to some degree. There are always complaints about the added content being too hard. Yet, the “more challenge” players soon chime in, complaining it’s too easy. No duh! You mastered it, then demanded more. Insatiable.
people keep saying this, and it is false.
people who want rewards are not the opposite of people who want challenge. This idea that you are either one or the other is a false ideaology. People who like easy games are the ones in opposition to the ones who want challenge.
lets be clear the current assumption in america is most people want rewards, regardless of the level of challenge they enjoy. (the entire economy is based on this principle)
So all that your saying is that some players who want challenge but also want reward must choose between easy grind, and leaving the game (for the far majority of rewards)
whereas the people who want easy content and reward do not have to choose.
Not quite.
It’s purely an objective matter that your statistical performance is not affected by cosmetics, titles, or minipets (unless they’d by some rather silly decision grant the user special bonuses).
It is however subjective to say you feel forced/compelled to play challenging content just so you can have everything completed. It is also subjective to say players would feel disenfranchised if a couple of such features were to be implemented (some might, but you cannot say with certainty how many that would be, nor can you prove it would have serious negative impacts on the game, i.e. gemstore revenues).My point, which is basicaly Harper’s point, is that adding in challenging content with unique rewards would not hinder you to play your game, because it’d be completely optional and would not add to vertical progression. That is pure logic. Now, if I take your approach to putting everything in % and playerbase minority vs majority , I dare say that the number of vets who would benefit from such change would dwarf the number of disappointed completionists by far, and it is an estimate I consider quite accurate.
But to say that the only fact is intentionally misleading. It’s a fact that completionists exist. That’s not theory, that’s a fact. It’s a fact even that some people will do content they don’t enjoy to get rewards. If you think those aren’t facts, I’m not really sure what to tell you.
The fact that your statistical performance isn’t increased or decreased is mostly relevant to min/maxers and people who care about stats. Are they are majority? A minority? Clearly, you’re one of the people to whom stats are massively important, so you come to the erroneous conclusion that it’s okay to have rewards that other people want, because they don’t need them.
But you don’t need those stats, even if they are better. It’s not a fact that you need them. It’s your desire for them. It’s that you want them. It wouldn’t be okay to you if these rewards gave higher stats. And that’s the difference. There are people who care less about stats and more about minipets or skins. That’s also a fact, by the way.
So your suggestion that they give no reward means you don’t need them is just your opinion. You don’t need higher stats, but you’re basically saying you would if they offered them.
That’s what we’re arguing about. You think your way is the only way. I think the issue is more complex.
thing here is, the game already does this. They already lose customers based on having the best rewards behind repetitive simple tasks.
Now i understand you have agreed that it may not be right, but you theorize it may be best for business.
I disagree whole heartedly, most casual players, are either satisfied taking longer, or are perfectly ok with their being higher levels of something that only people with more time/interest/energy can achieve.Do 10 year olds quit lego because they make advanced lego kits IN ADDITION to their low end kits?
DOes the existence of high end super detailed expensive car models make people quit buying matchbox cars?
Does having optional super hard to beat bosses in final fantasy 7 make people not finish the game?
The most played facebook game right now has like 2000 levels and has extreme difficulties in addition to normal difficulty.
Do you think the casual players here are unique? somehow they are not heavily invested in the game, but are heavily invested in possible item dropping?lets be honest, this is a battle of hardcore players of different types, because for the casual player something that requires them to grind 2000 hours, is probably a lot more unlikely than something that requires them to master hard levels that last 1 hour each. In fact most of those players will be able to be carried by people good enough.
If only 5% of the population is interested in raids in LOTRO, i think only 5% of the population is interested in getting every visual/mini/title in the game. So its a battle of the completitionist who doesnt like hard content versus the people who like hard content, neither of them = the majority of players.
You really dont understand crux of the matter after all these posts.
Anyway, this is prime example of tiny miniscule minority being extremely vocal on the forums. And im glad you mentioned LOTRO, because you know what: they dont make raids in LOTRO (AND thats after they promoted those heavily since launch AND had extreme rewardsa as bribes aka wasting a huge amount of their time on it) any more despite extremely vocal forum warriors.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
It’s purely an objective matter that your statistical performance is not affected by cosmetics, titles, or minipets (unless they’d by some rather silly decision grant the user special bonuses).
Yes, but it’s purely a subjective matter whether YOU consider your statistical performance to be more important to YOU than your cosmetics, titles, or minipets. You don’t need ideal stats to do anything in this game, you can participate in endgame content in greens, so stat bonuses aren’t that big a deal. Plenty of players really care how they look though, so you cannot say that there is anything about this game’s rewards that is objectively “more important” than any other, it’s all only as important as you believe it to be.
My point, which is basicaly Harper’s point, is that adding in challenging content with unique rewards would not hinder you to play your game, because it’d be completely optional and would not add to vertical progression.
And yet if someone’s game is “gotta catch’em all,” then putting insurmountable (for them) obstacles in their way would be hindering their game, MUCH more than not giving them access to top-tier stats.
You try to use dispassionate, logical-sounding words to frame your arguments, but the actual content of your argument is anything but. You are making a clear case that you believe the things you would prefer to see are more important than the things others would prefer to see. That’s fine, but own up to it.
p.s. It is a strawman to say everyone who does not want challenging content would automatically want the reward – only the completionists would, and they’re without doubt a minority.
Not everyone would want the reward, but a lot of people likely would, if it’s a reward worth having. There are plenty of “hard content” rewards in the game that I do not have, but I want them, and it nags at me that I don’t have them and makes me enjoy the game less. That doesn’t mean I’ll “try harder” to get them, I mean I tried that Liadri thing a few times, decided I didn’t enjoy banging my head against the wall and stopped, even though I had thousands of tickets to spend. I’d still like a Liadri mini though, it still annoys me that beating Liadri was the only way to get it, and that doing so was such a frustrating waste of time. I would not like to see even more content similarly bound up.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
i dont jack about lotro, but i know that vayne has said multiple times that lotro dev said only 5% of people play raids. Point is it doesnt matter, catering to the 5% who must have every item with low effort, is actually more damaging than catering to the 5% who want raids.
Another key here is raids does not equal challenging content, raids are primarily large group of player content. You can have challenging content anywhere, for any number of players.
the truth is rewards or penalties are the entire means of making a game.
Purely as an experiment for a limited time event, GW2 devs should take the average amount of money earned in eotm/champ train/easy path running per hour. Create some moderately difficult content, and make it pay 1.5x that amount per hour. Then look at how many people play this event.
this will give a lot of information about why people play, and how they will respond to rewards.
My guess is people would meet the challenge and after awhile regularly do this content for better rewards.
@KalaGrey
I roundly applaud your efforts in taking on Vayne’s myopic opinions, however, you must realise it is a lost cause, and in the end not worth the effort.
The sad thing is this game has already been left to the Vaynes and the super casuals coming and going through the revolving door. Oh, and lets not forget the multiple account gold sellers, bot runners, etc, All these are the ecosystem of GW2, each thriving off each other, driving theANET/NCSoft business model.
Veteran players have no place in this system, and we are being firmly frog-marched out the door.
Lvl 80’s: Ranger; Guardian; Mesmer; Necromancer; Thief
Gandara Megaserver