Guild Wars 2

Well of course there needs to be an actual incentive for content to be played, be it engaging battles or rewards. TA has neither.
If you spent a little less time on forums, you’d know that if you had to work for a few months without a salary, you’d lose all motivation to do anything, especially when there’s something you want to buy or get or if you have to support your family.

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

If it seems like no one wants difficult content, it’s because

The vets who did want difficult content have already quit the game after waiting in frustration for two years.

If you’ve been following the dungeon forum, you’ll have noticed quite a few prominent members quitting around this last feature patch.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

the funny thing about your posts is that somehow you are always right and everyone else is always wrong. ok vayne.
you should probably stop playing the forums and start playing the game. because literally everyone hates the puzzles and the cutscenes.

Literally everyone hates the puzzles. Oh wait…I don’t hate the puzzles. Therefore LITERALLY EVERYONE doesn’t hate the puzzles.

Even in this thread people have said they’d play it if the rewards were better. You’ll have to do better than that to form an argument.

i dont form arguments with you because you are always right and nobody can convience you that you are wrong. pointless.

go to the dungeon forums, make a thread, and ask the people why they dont run the path. then come back and talk.

and for the rewards, why should i make myself watch unskippable boring stuff and do boring puzzles when i can run a more fun dungeon path for more rewards on top of that? thats the thing.

really, stop playing the forums and play the game.

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

i dont form arguments with you because it is pointless.

go to the dungeon forums, make a thread, and ask the people why they dont run the path. then come back and talk.

and for the rewards, why should i make myself watch unskippable boring stuff and do boring puzzles when i can run a more fun dungeon path for more rewards on top of that? thats the thing.

Dear Anet, make hard content, but only make it specifically the way I specifically want hard content, because that’s what literally everyone wants.

Sincerely.

Hard core guy

with this post you have disqualified yourself from any further discussion.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

i dont form arguments with you because it is pointless.

go to the dungeon forums, make a thread, and ask the people why they dont run the path. then come back and talk.

and for the rewards, why should i make myself watch unskippable boring stuff and do boring puzzles when i can run a more fun dungeon path for more rewards on top of that? thats the thing.

Dear Anet, make hard content, but only make it specifically the way I specifically want hard content, because that’s what literally everyone wants.

Sincerely.

Hard core guy

with this post you have disqualified yourself from any further discussion.

Look you’re the one saying literally everyone agrees. Literally means there are no exceptions, everyone agrees. I don’t think everyone agrees.

What percentage of the playerbase even posts in the dungeon forums. I don’t, I run dungeons. There are ten people who run dungeons in my guild and not a single one of them post.

And none of them run TA Aetherblade even if I want to. When I ask why they tell me, it’s too long, for the reward you get…and that’s all they say. They don’t complain about the puzzles. They don’t complain about the cut scenes.

They complain about time vs reward. So you know, I understand that you believe the dungeon forums represent some sort of player consensus, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Now why’d you have to delete that beautiful post of yours there, vayne.

p.s. I know you don’t want to consider, let alone believe it, but the reason why your guildies thought that path was too long very likely (also) had to do with the unskippables and the puzzles.

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

all you guys are not really reading the report, it didnt say hardcore, it said people want solo activities.
Perhaps all the hub bub about people not wanting challenge is being conflated with people not wanting high number of player content.

After all, i love challenge, but i seldom do raids. I dont really tend to like the culture created by raids either, though that may be different with gw2 drop systems.

point is, desire for low/small man content is not the same thing as desire for easy content

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

all you guys are not really reading the report, it didnt say hardcore, it said people want solo activities.
Perhaps all the hub bub about people not wanting challenge is being conflated with people not wanting high number of player content.

After all, i love challenge, but i seldom do raids. I dont really tend to like the culture created by raids either, though that may be different with gw2 drop systems.

point is, desire for low/small man content is not the same thing as desire for easy content

It’s possible. It’s also likely that the solo content in that game isn’t particularly challenging and so you couldn’t really say much either way.

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

dungeon flavor actually matters.
Twilight arbor/sylvari always was low on my list of dungeon coolness, just cause i dont like em that much, and scarlet annoys me whenever i see her. Its not like the my head explodes, but its a deterrent.

Kythan Myr.4719:

So here are some final questions:

1. Do you think there is already enough challenging content that requires strategy and coordination in this game?

2. If Anet did design more challenging content, would there even be enough players to play it?

3. Is the zerg mentality too strong to even prevent some development?

4. What would more challenging content in GW2 look like?

1. There need to be more challenging smallscale(single player/little group) open World Events without punishment. A net of conherent events, so if one event fails the questline will not be resetted or stuck(like balthasar), but will lead into instead to another direction so you’re able to achieve your goal with a different way(f.e. questline A is really difficult. If you win you’ll proceed on A, if you only partially complete it you’ll move on questline B which is slightly less challenging). Of course this net of events needs to be large enough to pretend a living world where your actions will always succeed in a different way.
2. There won’t be enough players for frustrating content, as long it’s no best gp/time. But if loosing doesn’t punish you but opens insted another path, players will still enjoy the contend.
3. Don’t try to fight the zerg mentality, use it. Anet could even exploit the zerg-mentality of the playerbase and create farmable difficult “must-loose”-content(a village you need to defent, the longer you stand up against the enemy the more powerful[and of course rewarding] the attackwaves get resulting into you needing to complete other sideevents and tons of coordination to being able to stand up against the enemys being rewarded with great gp/hour at high-level-waves @ a increasing level of strategy, coordination and difficulty).
4. There are many ways to increase the fun for everyone . TripleTroubleWorm, Twilight Arbor, … taught us that typical raids/hardcoredungeons only please a minority and lock out the majority of the playerbase- the casuals- from content. I don’t think those two playstiles should be pit against each other, but could complement each other to achieve pure awesomeness.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Now why’d you have to delete that beautiful post of yours there, vayne.

p.s. I know you don’t want to consider, let alone believe it, but the reason why your guildies thought that path was too long very likely (also) had to do with the unskippables and the puzzles.

I deleted the post because on retrospect I found I offended someone, and decided I didn’t want to do that.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

dungeon flavor actually matters.
Twilight arbor/sylvari always was low on my list of dungeon coolness, just cause i dont like em that much, and scarlet annoys me whenever i see her. Its not like the my head explodes, but its a deterrent.

The people in my guild who don’t run it enjoy it…they just think it’s not worth the time investment. They can run two, three smaller dungeons in the time it takes that run that once.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

all you guys are not really reading the report, it didnt say hardcore, it said people want solo activities.
Perhaps all the hub bub about people not wanting challenge is being conflated with people not wanting high number of player content.

After all, i love challenge, but i seldom do raids. I dont really tend to like the culture created by raids either, though that may be different with gw2 drop systems.

point is, desire for low/small man content is not the same thing as desire for easy content

It’s possible. It’s also likely that the solo content in that game isn’t particularly challenging and so you couldn’t really say much either way.

depends on what solo content in the game you are talking about. To be honest, most of the difficulty i have seen in raid like content in most games isnt actually any harder than solo/small man content. Its more from an organization stand point, and the fact that some random person will probably mess up.

a lot of people just dont have the time, energy or desire to group up with 20+ people and try to do something, especially if it requires skill, because people tend to react poorly when pressure is on them.

not to mention, in general, your singular contribution is diminished, or your tasks simplified.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

dungeon flavor actually matters.
Twilight arbor/sylvari always was low on my list of dungeon coolness, just cause i dont like em that much, and scarlet annoys me whenever i see her. Its not like the my head explodes, but its a deterrent.

The people in my guild who don’t run it enjoy it…they just think it’s not worth the time investment. They can run two, three smaller dungeons in the time it takes that run that once.

regardless, i agree that challenging/time consuming content needs better rewards than easy/short content.

Again, it would be fine if challenging, time consuming content got a greater quantity of rewards than short and easy content, a pile of loot that is enough to make it worth doing, but if challenging, time consuming content must come hand in hand with unique rewards, cool things that you can’t get anywhere else, then I’d just rather not have it in the game at all, because I might want those rewards, and I might not enjoy that content, and I don’t appreciate being pressured into content that I do not enjoy doing.

Vayne.8563:

No, it wouldn’t ruin the game. Nor would it save the game for hard core players. You guys say you want one instance, but you always want better rewards. Once you get good at that instance and farm it, you’ll want another and another and another. It becomes a regular drain on the resources of the company.

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

We want appropriate rewards for time spent, there’s no reason Aether shouldn’t be 3g like arah. But even with the extra gold no one will run it much, it’s just not very well liked.

As for rewards, look at fractals, how many of us do it over and over and over for little to no reward? I can assure you fractals is more difficult on high level than that kittenty dungeon path.

Now you are right in a way, we don’t want 1 instance for the rest of this game’s lifetime. Really, how hard would it be to release one every year or even every 6 months? They release solo casual stuff on a bi-weekly basis. They already have the casual crowd covered. So I don’t see a reason why you should be against them making a bit of hardcore content on the side.

Vayne.8563:

What percentage of the playerbase even posts in the dungeon forums.

Much of the “hardcore” crowd you seem to know so much about.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

all you guys are not really reading the report, it didnt say hardcore, it said people want solo activities.
Perhaps all the hub bub about people not wanting challenge is being conflated with people not wanting high number of player content.

After all, i love challenge, but i seldom do raids. I dont really tend to like the culture created by raids either, though that may be different with gw2 drop systems.

point is, desire for low/small man content is not the same thing as desire for easy content

It’s possible. It’s also likely that the solo content in that game isn’t particularly challenging and so you couldn’t really say much either way.

depends on what solo content in the game you are talking about. To be honest, most of the difficulty i have seen in raid like content in most games isnt actually any harder than solo/small man content. Its more from an organization stand point, and the fact that some random person will probably mess up.

a lot of people just dont have the time, energy or desire to group up with 20+ people and try to do something, especially if it requires skill, because people tend to react poorly when pressure is on them.

not to mention, in general, your singular contribution is diminished, or your tasks simplified.

The thing that gets me is how many devs make the same assumptions and the same mistakes. The stuff the Carbine Devs said could almost be an echo of the stuff the Trion Devs said a few months into Rift when they started trying to develop stuff for smaller groups….but none of it was challenging at all.

So we have multiple questions. Do people want to be challenged? If they do what form should that challenge take?

And we still have the problem that different people are challenged by different things.

There should be some way to satisfy everyone. I actually liked the Fractals because you could play all the content without ever going to higher levels.

That’s one thing I would hate. I’d hate to be locked out of content because maybe I’m not good enough to finish it.

Games like Mass Effect have different difficulties for stuff, which brings us back to hard mode.

Maybe it’s time to implement something like that.

Nick.6972:

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

That’s quite surprising indeed.

What exactly is your point though? xD

The point is that this is just another statement from Devs that there are not sooo many
people that really want hardcore content than some people think.

Wildstar was a game that was catered especially to those people that wanted very
hard content .. and this shows for me that all those people that say : we need hardcore
content else GW2 will dye .. are just wrong.

I don’t say we don’t need new content .. and that a little bit hardcore content would be
wrong .. but just that catering especially for hardcore crowd and don’t care about the
casual players wouldn’t “save” the game .. but do maybe more damage than it helps

How is making 1 elite instance for those who enjoy elite content catering to hardcore crowd when 99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”
Please elaborate.

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

Vayne.8563:

The thing that gets me is how many devs make the same assumptions and the same mistakes. The stuff the Carbine Devs said could almost be an echo of the stuff the Trion Devs said a few months into Rift when they started trying to develop stuff for smaller groups….but none of it was challenging at all.

So we have multiple questions. Do people want to be challenged? If they do what form should that challenge take?

And we still have the problem that different people are challenged by different things.

There should be some way to satisfy everyone. I actually liked the Fractals because you could play all the content without ever going to higher levels.

That’s one thing I would hate. I’d hate to be locked out of content because maybe I’m not good enough to finish it.

Games like Mass Effect have different difficulties for stuff, which brings us back to hard mode.

Maybe it’s time to implement something like that.

I think the surprise mostly comes from how much that game had been advertised as a game for the hardcore crowd.

As for being locked out of content, if you can do arah and TA aetherblade I doubt you have that much to worry about. If they made a new instance/dungeon, which they never will, it’d probably be along the same lines of those paths.

Beldin.5498:

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

What a horrible stereotype. My friendslist is filled with friendly players who play this game pretty hardcore. Just look at [noob], all friendly ‘elitists’ who help people get better at this game.

cranos.5913:

Vayne.8563:

The thing that gets me is how many devs make the same assumptions and the same mistakes. The stuff the Carbine Devs said could almost be an echo of the stuff the Trion Devs said a few months into Rift when they started trying to develop stuff for smaller groups….but none of it was challenging at all.

So we have multiple questions. Do people want to be challenged? If they do what form should that challenge take?

And we still have the problem that different people are challenged by different things.

There should be some way to satisfy everyone. I actually liked the Fractals because you could play all the content without ever going to higher levels.

That’s one thing I would hate. I’d hate to be locked out of content because maybe I’m not good enough to finish it.

Games like Mass Effect have different difficulties for stuff, which brings us back to hard mode.

Maybe it’s time to implement something like that.

I think the surprise mostly comes from how much that game had been advertised as a game for the hardcore crowd.

As for being locked out of content, if you can do arah and TA aetherblade I doubt you have that much to worry about. If they made a new instance/dungeon, which they never will, it’d probably be along the same lines of those paths.

I was thinking more of raids in other games, which I found too constricting and annoying. I’m in Australia and I don’t want to have to wake up on a US schedule to get stuff done with 20 people.

phys.7689:

depends on what solo content in the game you are talking about. To be honest, most of the difficulty i have seen in raid like content in most games isnt actually any harder than solo/small man content. Its more from an organization stand point, and the fact that some random person will probably mess up.

a lot of people just dont have the time, energy or desire to group up with 20+ people and try to do something, especially if it requires skill, because people tend to react poorly when pressure is on them.

not to mention, in general, your singular contribution is diminished, or your tasks simplified.

For some reason people that do raids however think that they are sooooo much better
than the rest of the players and that only they should get the best rewards while
everyone else should just get trash.

Personally for me raiding is just totally unheroic … you are just a small number in a
blob of 24 players .. you don’t even see if what you do has any effect as long as you
are not the Maintank or in the MT-Healergroup .. and if MT dies you just want to
have a skill to kill yourself so you don’t have to wait the 5-15 seconds till raidboss
kills you. No way anyone could turn around the wipe if MT goes down.

At least that was the raiding i had in EQ2 .. and the longer i did it the more i hated it.
Also .. you could either have fun playing the game but maybe never manage to kill
the raid-bosses .. or you need to be just like an army-guy that does exactly what
the leader tells him .. and never ever say a word in TS unless the leader says you can speak.

So personally i would much prefer challenging solo or maybe 2-3 man content
over everything else that requires masses of players.

Vayne.8563:

I was thinking more of raids in other games, which I found too constricting and annoying. I’m in Australia and I don’t want to have to wake up on a US schedule to get stuff done with 20 people.

I won’t deny it, personally I would love raids here… but I think we should be more realistic and keep it on dungeons/fractals/other possible small man instances. This new “raid” position anet advertised is obviously to overhaul the boring monstrosity that is shatterer, or simply for a new world boss.

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

What a horrible stereotype. My friendslist is filled with friendly players who play this game pretty hardcore. Just look at [noob], all friendly ‘elitists’ who help people get better at this game.

That was just directly said to the person that wrote :

99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”

Not against anyone that wants hardcore content .. just about people that always
have to insult other player in these kin of way ..

Its the same as if i would everytime say that hardcore players are just fat kids that
live in moms basement .. or things like that ..

Beldin.5498:

Nick.6972:

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

That’s quite surprising indeed.

What exactly is your point though? xD

The point is that this is just another statement from Devs that there are not sooo many
people that really want hardcore content than some people think.

Wildstar was a game that was catered especially to those people that wanted very
hard content .. and this shows for me that all those people that say : we need hardcore
content else GW2 will dye .. are just wrong.

I don’t say we don’t need new content .. and that a little bit hardcore content would be
wrong .. but just that catering especially for hardcore crowd and don’t care about the
casual players wouldn’t “save” the game .. but do maybe more damage than it helps

How is making 1 elite instance for those who enjoy elite content catering to hardcore crowd when 99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”
Please elaborate.

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

Lets assume you were right, just for a second. It’s obviously not, but nonetheless.
What would stop you from making your own party with like minded players?

Nick.6972:

Beldin.5498:

Nick.6972:

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

That’s quite surprising indeed.

What exactly is your point though? xD

The point is that this is just another statement from Devs that there are not sooo many
people that really want hardcore content than some people think.

Wildstar was a game that was catered especially to those people that wanted very
hard content .. and this shows for me that all those people that say : we need hardcore
content else GW2 will dye .. are just wrong.

I don’t say we don’t need new content .. and that a little bit hardcore content would be
wrong .. but just that catering especially for hardcore crowd and don’t care about the
casual players wouldn’t “save” the game .. but do maybe more damage than it helps

How is making 1 elite instance for those who enjoy elite content catering to hardcore crowd when 99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”
Please elaborate.

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

Lets assume you were right, just for a second. It’s obviously not, but nonetheless.
What would stop you from making your own party with like minded players?

Nothing .. but do you expect me to say : Hey ANet .. these guy all the times called
me a totally idiot .. so please spend all your time just to do content for them because
its so great to get called by them all day .. and i don’t want that you loose those
player because i would seriously miss to get insultet.

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

What a horrible stereotype. My friendslist is filled with friendly players who play this game pretty hardcore. Just look at [noob], all friendly ‘elitists’ who help people get better at this game.

That was just directly said to the person that wrote :

99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”

Not against anyone that wants hardcore content .. just about people that always
have to insult other player in these kin of way ..

Its the same as if i would everytime say that hardcore players are just fat kids that
live in moms basement .. or things like that ..

Fair enough, I don’t agree with that statement either. I would like to see people applying this strategy in fractals or arah. No dodging allowed ofc.

Beldin.5498:

Nick.6972:

Beldin.5498:

Nick.6972:

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

That’s quite surprising indeed.

What exactly is your point though? xD

The point is that this is just another statement from Devs that there are not sooo many
people that really want hardcore content than some people think.

Wildstar was a game that was catered especially to those people that wanted very
hard content .. and this shows for me that all those people that say : we need hardcore
content else GW2 will dye .. are just wrong.

I don’t say we don’t need new content .. and that a little bit hardcore content would be
wrong .. but just that catering especially for hardcore crowd and don’t care about the
casual players wouldn’t “save” the game .. but do maybe more damage than it helps

How is making 1 elite instance for those who enjoy elite content catering to hardcore crowd when 99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”
Please elaborate.

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

Lets assume you were right, just for a second. It’s obviously not, but nonetheless.
What would stop you from making your own party with like minded players?

Nothing .. but do you expect me to say : Hey ANet .. these guy all the times called
me a totally idiot .. so please spend all your time just to do content for them because
its so great to get called by them all day .. and i don’t want that you loose those
player because i would seriously miss to get insultet.

If there’s someone calling you that way or harassing you, you should use the report function.

As someone who’s never been in a PvE centric guild, and who has always been puging dungeons and high level fractals, I personally have never encountered people like you’re describing, or if I join a party I don’t like, I simply quit.

What you’re saying is quite simply not true, don’t generalize people based on your narrow and limited experience with few individuals.

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Personally i must say i also just don’t want ANet waste ressources for players that
always think they have to insult other players and show them massive amounts
of disrespect only because they are not that great as you think you are yourself.

And maybe its not even true and some of them are much better than you .. they
only don’t brag about it all the time and insult other players to be sooo bad.

What a horrible stereotype. My friendslist is filled with friendly players who play this game pretty hardcore. Just look at [noob], all friendly ‘elitists’ who help people get better at this game.

That was just directly said to the person that wrote :

99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”

Not against anyone that wants hardcore content .. just about people that always
have to insult other player in these kin of way ..

Its the same as if i would everytime say that hardcore players are just fat kids that
live in moms basement .. or things like that ..

I don’t find it insulting to say the game is kitten easy.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

all you guys are not really reading the report, it didnt say hardcore, it said people want solo activities.
Perhaps all the hub bub about people not wanting challenge is being conflated with people not wanting high number of player content.

After all, i love challenge, but i seldom do raids. I dont really tend to like the culture created by raids either, though that may be different with gw2 drop systems.

point is, desire for low/small man content is not the same thing as desire for easy content

It’s possible. It’s also likely that the solo content in that game isn’t particularly challenging and so you couldn’t really say much either way.

depends on what solo content in the game you are talking about. To be honest, most of the difficulty i have seen in raid like content in most games isnt actually any harder than solo/small man content. Its more from an organization stand point, and the fact that some random person will probably mess up.

a lot of people just dont have the time, energy or desire to group up with 20+ people and try to do something, especially if it requires skill, because people tend to react poorly when pressure is on them.

not to mention, in general, your singular contribution is diminished, or your tasks simplified.

The thing that gets me is how many devs make the same assumptions and the same mistakes. The stuff the Carbine Devs said could almost be an echo of the stuff the Trion Devs said a few months into Rift when they started trying to develop stuff for smaller groups….but none of it was challenging at all.

So we have multiple questions. Do people want to be challenged? If they do what form should that challenge take?

And we still have the problem that different people are challenged by different things.

There should be some way to satisfy everyone. I actually liked the Fractals because you could play all the content without ever going to higher levels.

That’s one thing I would hate. I’d hate to be locked out of content because maybe I’m not good enough to finish it.

Games like Mass Effect have different difficulties for stuff, which brings us back to hard mode.

Maybe it’s time to implement something like that.

yeah, i mentioned this back when they released the info on the fractured update.
Fractured has a key flaw, the new fractal mechanics are only available once you hit level 31
now 31 is pretty far, but not impossible, but anything they add from now on, will require 50+ (new instabilitities)
so then they will want to reset progress again so that a wider audience can attempt fractals.
also they designed instabilities such that you can bypass the harder ones by playing one further along the difficulty curve. So a lot of people just join like level 50 fractals or level 40, and do the same instability 20 times.

point is they should have developed a more scalable system, where the item/mechanical difficulty scales, but the actual differences in game play mechanics are selectable at some lower level.
They can make it unlocks, but have it unlock at lower levels, or when certain conditions have been met.

point is to allow people to have some means of playing content at a level they feel comfortable with.

The other point is, large number of player content does not neccesarily equal challenging content.

What i think casuals, and a lot of people really want, is content that they can get into fairly naturally and easily, without too much hassle. Casual isnt about difficulty perse, its more about being able to get in and do something without much set up/hassle.

Didn’t read whole thread, just first page… I think that every dungeon must have better reward for paths that are more difficulty then others. I mean, SE path 2, COF p3, TA new path… This dungeon paths must have 2 or 3 golds reward at the end, not 1g like in other paths.

Hard content must have better rewards, more gold for example. Make those “harder” paths more harder, and put some good reward – everyone will play that.

Giant in Dry Top, nobody is doing that event. Why?! Because the reward is the same as in other, easier, events. Put some gold in it and it will be all right. And one more thing, when players succeed giant event, let the event bar fill more that the other events will fill the bar.

(Sry for my bad English.)

Since dungeons are instanced they could add some kind of difficulty setting.

But looking at the big picture MMOs have now reached saturation. Your two choices to grow your player base are 1) draw players who have just churned out of the MMO they were playing and 2) expand the potential pool of players by making a casual MMO that isn’t so time demanding.

Churn happens in MMOs. Players will become bored or chase after that new shiny thing until they become bored there and return. Casual doesn’t have to mean easy, it just has to mean you aren’t punished for not playing for X hours everyday. LS1 sort of failed this test because if you missed it, oh well. LS2 sort of fixed that aspect.

I think it is more of a priority. You could add both casual and hardcore content. And just let people play whatever they want.

The problem is you probably can’t develop that many contents. So you have to choose.

Behellagh.1468:

LS1 sort of failed this test because if you missed it, oh well. LS2 sort of fixed that aspect.

Yes one can pay gems to unlock a LS2 episode they missed, however the pricing is all off. I’m pretty sure no one would honestly say that shuffling through some dialog boxes and the playing some slow unchallenged content is worth the listed price.

Surbrus.6942:

Behellagh.1468:

LS1 sort of failed this test because if you missed it, oh well. LS2 sort of fixed that aspect.

Yes one can pay gems to unlock a LS2 episode they missed, however the pricing is all off. I’m pretty sure no one would honestly say that shuffling through some dialog boxes and the playing some slow unchallenged content is worth the listed price.

Doesn’t completing the LS episode unlock an achievement chase? I’d believe that achievement hunters would find the price reasonable.

Really some people still say that we dont need more difficult content ?!
Almost every player who leaves this game say same thing"no content" or “easy game”.
What is wrong with game where you can die ? where you have to use your brain ? not only stand in one spot and spam 111111 . My friend started playing this game one week ago , he is already lvl32 . we did ac story and I created lfg “all welcome” , we had only 100-200 ap players I was the only one with 16k+ but playing on low lvl char without armor .And we did this story without wiping or even dying . My low lvl char has 0 deaths and my friend has 1 !!!!! really completly new player even cant die in this game !!!! or maybe he just understands to not stand in red circle and dodge .

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

Almost every player who leaves this game say same thing “no content” or “easy game”.

Funny, a lot of friends and guild members have left GW2. Not one of them said either of those things. Perhaps you meant to say, “Almost every player I know who leaves …”?

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

What is wrong with game where you can die ? where you have to use your brain ? not only stand in one spot and spam 111111.

Is anyone else getting almighty sick and tired of egregious claims about “stand in one spot and spam 1”? If you don’t like standing in a safe spot and letting the auto-attack run, then don’t do the world boss events where this is possible. I mostly avoid those events. In the events I do, people who stand in one spot end up downed.

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

My friend started playing this game one week ago , he is already lvl32 . we did ac story and I created lfg “all welcome” , we had only 100-200 ap players I was the only one with 16k+ but playing on low lvl char without armor .And we did this story without wiping or even dying.

Talking about lack of difficulty and pointing to AC Story is off. First, it’s a story dungeon — which is supposed to be the easy mode. Second, of all story mode dungeons you pick the one that was nerfed to the ground a few months after launch.

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

My low lvl char has 0 deaths and my friend has 1 !!!!! really completly new player even cant die in this game !!!! or maybe he just understands to not stand in red circle and dodge .

Persistent world content is designed to be doable by players in the average range of ability while playing solo. You, an experienced player, are leveling in the persistent world with a friend. Other than events scaling up — which I don’t believe a party of two will accomplish, yeah, if you play in a group you’re going to find solo content easy.

I’m not saying you don’t find the game too easy, or that the game does not need more difficult content, but the examples you provide are not helping to make your case.

laokoko.7403:

I think it is more of a priority. You could add both casual and hardcore content. And just let people play whatever they want.

The problem is you probably can’t develop that many contents. So you have to choose.

or you make the same content for both.. casuals and “hardcores” and add a setting to make it harder IF you want it to be harder, hard mode dungeons, hard mode LS instances and maybe even hard mode maps. Technically maps are also instances so whats the harm to add a difficulty setting in the options that ensures you get put on these maps and a hardcore story and hard core exploration mode for dungeons. That way you get the very same content…just the mobs\bosses are harder to kill, use additional conditions and hit much harder.. or move faster, or are 5-10 levels over the zone´s\instance´s\dungeons level cap or all in one. This thing unlocks after..dunno you unlocked all your skill slots and then you can get your kitten handed to you if you want it. Thats how id do it atleast…but then again nobody asks me so whatever

IndigoSundown.5419:

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

Almost every player who leaves this game say same thing “no content” or “easy game”.

Funny, a lot of friends and guild members have left GW2. Not one of them said either of those things. Perhaps you meant to say, “Almost every player I know who leaves …”?

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

What is wrong with game where you can die ? where you have to use your brain ? not only stand in one spot and spam 111111.

Is anyone else getting almighty sick and tired of egregious claims about “stand in one spot and spam 1”? If you don’t like standing in a safe spot and letting the auto-attack run, then don’t do the world boss events where this is possible. I mostly avoid those events. In the events I do, people who stand in one spot end up downed.

Its just there way to make them feel better because all they know is how to stack
in corners and spam #1 .. and they need to prove the world how much better they are ^^

So, I’ve been playing through the personal stories again on an alt. If Anet added a feature similar to GW1’s model where you could replay “missions” with a bonus stage and harder difficulty, would you do it? I don’t really want to complain about the new and “improved” rewards, but the various crafting bags were sure nice.

So, if they added one-time better rewards, would you be willing to play through harder personal story missions? They could add bonuses which provide better rewards too. It’s kind of like what they did with the LS and being able to go back and complete extra challenges.

For example, I was playing the mission “Close the Eye” where you had to defend while Trahearne performed his ritual to open it There were tendrils catapulting stuff at you and a small pact squad trying to survive that and the risen army coming for you. There’s all sorts of things that could be added to make things a bit more challenging and forcing the player to be more intentional about their builds and play style. They could make a challenge to not let a single pact soldier go down, or you need to destroy all three catapults before they kill Trahearne, or keep the risen army for crossing some line or the ritual automatically fails, etc.. You get the idea

If they ever improve the AI then maybe they could add a hard mode too. That would also make bonus objectives even harder and maybe more rewarding. Might even put more meaning into some of these PS instead of being able to just auto attack through most of it.

Kythan Myr.4719:

So, I’ve been playing through the personal stories again on an alt. If Anet added a feature similar to GW1’s model where you could replay “missions” with a bonus stage and harder difficulty, would you do it? I don’t really want to complain about the new and “improved” rewards, but the various crafting bags were sure nice.

So, if they added one-time better rewards, would you be willing to play through harder personal story missions? They could add bonuses which provide better rewards too. It’s kind of like what they did with the LS and being able to go back and complete extra challenges.

For example, I was playing the mission “Close the Eye” where you had to defend while Trahearne performed his ritual to open it There were tendrils catapulting stuff at you and a small pact squad trying to survive that and the risen army coming for you. There’s all sorts of things that could be added to make things a bit more challenging and forcing the player to be more intentional about their builds and play style. They could make a challenge to not let a single pact soldier go down, or you need to destroy all three catapults before they kill Trahearne, or keep the risen army for crossing some line or the ritual automatically fails, etc.. You get the idea

If they ever improve the AI then maybe they could add a hard mode too. That would also make bonus objectives even harder and maybe more rewarding. Might even put more meaning into some of these PS instead of being able to just auto attack through most of it.

Of course that i would play the harder difficulty especially if i’m being rewarded with better shiny things.
In my opinion if the rewards are not equal to the difficulty curve and time spent then that is not a real MMO.

moiraine.2753:

Kythan Myr.4719:

So, I’ve been playing through the personal stories again on an alt. If Anet added a feature similar to GW1’s model where you could replay “missions” with a bonus stage and harder difficulty, would you do it? I don’t really want to complain about the new and “improved” rewards, but the various crafting bags were sure nice.

So, if they added one-time better rewards, would you be willing to play through harder personal story missions? They could add bonuses which provide better rewards too. It’s kind of like what they did with the LS and being able to go back and complete extra challenges.

For example, I was playing the mission “Close the Eye” where you had to defend while Trahearne performed his ritual to open it There were tendrils catapulting stuff at you and a small pact squad trying to survive that and the risen army coming for you. There’s all sorts of things that could be added to make things a bit more challenging and forcing the player to be more intentional about their builds and play style. They could make a challenge to not let a single pact soldier go down, or you need to destroy all three catapults before they kill Trahearne, or keep the risen army for crossing some line or the ritual automatically fails, etc.. You get the idea

If they ever improve the AI then maybe they could add a hard mode too. That would also make bonus objectives even harder and maybe more rewarding. Might even put more meaning into some of these PS instead of being able to just auto attack through most of it.

Of course that i would play the harder difficulty especially if i’m being rewarded with better shiny things.
In my opinion if the rewards are not equal to the difficulty curve and time spent then that is not a real MMO.

In my opinion, making up definitions to suit your own taste and play style servers no purpose.

An MMO is a massive, multiplayer online game, period. That means any game that has a persistent world where you can walk around with a bunch of other people at the same time is an MMOG. And if you add an RP aspect it’s an MMORPG.

Difficulty doesn’t, and never will define what makes a game an MMO.

@Vayne,
Of course difficulty and role playing elements define what is the MMO genre.Most MMOs are gear based.This means harder difficulty = better loot.This can’t be denied.There are very few MMOs that have different model.GW1 and GW2 are such MMOs.
What makes for instance Rift or Wildstar better than GW2 in my eyes is that i am being rewarded with the appropriate items for my time spent doing harder modes.

If i do ranked PvP i will have the best possible PvP items.
If i do raids i will have the best possible PvE items.

I don’t mind GW2’s model where everything is cosmetic based.But places like Arah/TA:AE/FotM and bosses like Tequatl/Wurm must have better loot.Why AC gives the same ammount of gold as Arah P3?Or why AC gives more gold from SE P2?Or why FotM lvl 50 gives only 1g30s?That is the bloody lvl50 what is that piece of crappy reward?The loot tables in GW2 are just such a mess at this moment.Just throw a look on Wurm and Tequatl…They are consider the equivalent of a raid boss and still they drop….

I like GW2 a lot.I have played 4k+ hours in it.But i’m just not very happy with it’s current direction.It is just not moving in a direction where the veterans can be happy too.It is cattering mostly to the casuals.

moiraine.2753:

What makes for instance Rift or Wildstar better than GW2 in my eyes is that i am being rewarded with the appropriate items for my time spent doing harder modes.

For the same reason i prefer GW2 .. because in those other games your are not
rewarded on the time spent .. but only if you play the “correct” content .. and that are
of course raids.

You can spent time as much as you want .. you never get the good rewards if you
don’t do raids.

Beldin.5498:

moiraine.2753:

What makes for instance Rift or Wildstar better than GW2 in my eyes is that i am being rewarded with the appropriate items for my time spent doing harder modes.

For the same reason i prefer GW2 .. because in those other games your are not
rewarded on the time spent .. but only if you play the “correct” content .. and that are
of course raids.

You can spent time as much as you want .. you never get the good rewards if you
don’t do raids.

In GW2 already exist raid bosses.They are Tequatl and Wurm.Why they don’t have better loot tables?On top of that who ever you ask will tell you that Wurm is even less rewarding from Tequatl when it’s obvious that The undead dragon is not harder.

moiraine.2753:

@Vayne,
Of course difficulty and role playing elements define what is the MMO genre.Most MMOs are gear based.This means harder difficulty = better loot.This can’t be denied.There are very few MMOs that have different model.GW1 and GW2 are such MMOs.
What makes for instance Rift or Wildstar better than GW2 in my eyes is that i am being rewarded with the appropriate items for my time spent doing harder modes.

If i do ranked PvP i will have the best possible PvP items.
If i do raids i will have the best possible PvE items.

I don’t mind GW2’s model where everything is cosmetic based.But places like Arah/TA:AE/FotM and bosses like Tequatl/Wurm must have better loot.Why AC gives the same ammount of gold as Arah P3?Or why AC gives more gold from SE P2?Or why FotM lvl 50 gives only 1g30s?That is the bloody lvl50 what is that piece of crappy reward?The loot tables in GW2 are just such a mess at this moment.Just throw a look on Wurm and Tequatl…They are consider the equivalent of a raid boss and still they drop….

I like GW2 a lot.I have played 4k+ hours in it.But i’m just not very happy with it’s current direction.It is just not moving in a direction where the veterans can be happy too.It is cattering mostly to the casuals.

Difficulty doesn’t define the MMO genre. You can look it up in wikipedia. You can look it up anywhere. There’s an existing definition of MMOs. It’s like saying I don’t consider a car a car, because it’s not a race car.

There are harder MMOs and easier MMOs, but the MMO genre is, and has always been evolving. It’s been getting easier and easier.

Sandbox MMOs, for example, are almost always going to be more difficult than themepark MMOs. Niche MMOs might be harder. But WoW has been dumbing down it’s game for years and years. Is WoW not an MMO?

A majority of cars today probably come with AC. Does that mean cars without AC aren’t cars?

We can’t just make up definitions to serve our own purpose.

Here’s the first two paragraphs from the Wikipedia page of MMORPG.

“Massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) mix the genres of role-playing video games and massively multiplayer online games, possibly in the form of web browser-based games, in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual world.

As in all RPGs, the player assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world or science-fiction world) and takes control over many of that character’s actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player online RPGs by the number of players able to interact together, and by the game’s persistent world (usually hosted by the game’s publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game."

This matches my definition of what an MMORPG is. Any other arbitrary criteria is just that. Arbitrary.

moiraine.2753:

Beldin.5498:

moiraine.2753:

What makes for instance Rift or Wildstar better than GW2 in my eyes is that i am being rewarded with the appropriate items for my time spent doing harder modes.

For the same reason i prefer GW2 .. because in those other games your are not
rewarded on the time spent .. but only if you play the “correct” content .. and that are
of course raids.

You can spent time as much as you want .. you never get the good rewards if you
don’t do raids.

In GW2 already exist raid bosses.They are Tequatl and Wurm.Why they don’t have better loot tables?On top of that who ever you ask will tell you that Wurm is even less rewarding from Tequatl when it’s obvious that The undead dragon is not harder.

You said : RIFT and Wildstar .. i played RIFT and left because it tuned out to be
just another Raid grinder even since i really liked the world events .. but there
was no way to get better stuff without dungeons and in the end raids. Heck we ddidn’t
even got lvl 50 items in the end for purple shards from world events.

Played nearly 5 years EQ2 .. also no way at getting better items without raiding, and
the difference in quality got bigger an bigger with the years .. also first there was some
stuff still tradeable .. later all got bind on pickup .. so no chance.

I just assume Wildstar is the same .. but haven’t played it.

moiraine.2753:

If i do ranked PvP i will have the best possible PvP items.
If i do raids i will have the best possible PvE items.

Which is an outdated way to do things. Some people don’t have the time to do raids, should they not be allowed to work towards the best gear in some other manner, or we just resign to the fact that those that have larger chunks of time to play will be the only ones who can get the best gear? This isn’t even a skill issue, it’s a time issue. Raids discriminate people on a time-basis, rarely on a skill basis, as raids aren’t difficult content, they are just really long dungeons.