I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
Too few players wanting difficult content?
Not even close, the hardcore crowd hardly ever cheeses fights anyway. You won’t find them standing in the safespot ranging a boss down.
There are safespots where you can range a boss down??
No, what I meant was…you find them stacked in a corner AoEing the crap out of the mobs with guardian reflect up. In fact, almost every single encounter is a form of stack, burn. They use very little strategy beyond stack and burn yet consider themselves awesome players.
Not knocking stack and burn as I’ve used it on many occasions and certainly makes some parts go quicker; just saying that isn’t skill, that’s cheese.
When I PUG FOTM49 or FOTM50 and I’m with the so-called hard-cores, all they want to do is stack here, skip through these, stack there, we pull mobs, blast cooldowns with reflect wall up, maybe have to dodge, skip through these mobs, stack, DPS, stack, DPS. Unless there’s another group of hard-cores somewhere that have a secret society where they purposely don’t stack and burn….
NEWS for you – we are already on side 11 and everyone know now guildwars 2 is easy Thread is about want it like this? or wanna have more chalenge?
The problem with having hard content is not everyone gets to do it. I get that some people at least enjoy being challenged, but I’d rather see ANet introduce a Hard mode specifically for dungeons/instances/etc. rather then just add new content that’s hard for everyone no matter what.
That way you can satisfy the people who just want to go in and see the content without it being impossible for them to do, and the people who want more challenge could have that.
The problem with having hard content is not everyone gets to do it. I get that some people at least enjoy being challenged, but I’d rather see ANet introduce a Hard mode specifically for dungeons/instances/etc. rather then just add new content that’s hard for everyone no matter what.
That way you can satisfy the people who just want to go in and see the content without it being impossible for them to do, and the people who want more challenge could have that.
It’s a catch 22. The ones who want harder content, also want some way to display the fact they are able to do harder content. Either in the form of exclusive skins, titles, loot, what have you. Then you have the people that don’t mind if there is harder content, however they don’t want the people who complete harder content to get anything special that they themselves won’t be able to get through easier content. They think that everyone should be happy with harder content, but no substantial reward for it, as in their minds it would not be fair.
I don’t think there is a group that straight up doesn’t want there to be harder content available for other players. It typically will be tied to rewards.
I think SAB had a good system quite honestly (not to open this can of worms again). Everyone can get the blue skins from playing, and/or purchasing. However you can upgrade the skins via playing the harder content (the mind-numbing trial and error, which can be argued is less of a difficulty test and more of a patience test) to have a different color/glow.
I think that’s the way it should be. So hard mode dungeons, for example, can give special items, that once you have enough you can upgrade the dungeon weapons to have a special effect. They aren’t stronger, simply different. And that, hopefully, would satisfy people.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
I don’t see world’s top football/basketball/tennis players turning anyone off playing said sports, so……
Nor can I imagine top esport players turning people off from playing esportz………..
Also, you cannot back up your claims statistically on how many can and cannot commit, and how many just don’t feel like it, nor how many might simply not want to for reasons that are game-related.
But let me ask you this. Does the top football player play with me? Or people like me? No. They play only with people equal to them.
I don’t see those people walking onto casual fields of play and demanding people be better or get out. In fact, the whole analogy is fraught with issues.
I bet if most pro ballplayers got into a game with amateurs they’d be very gracious and supportive. They certainly wouldn’t be saying L2P noob.
If i do ranked PvP i will have the best possible PvP items.
If i do raids i will have the best possible PvE items.Which is an outdated way to do things. Some people don’t have the time to do raids, should they not be allowed to work towards the best gear in some other manner, or we just resign to the fact that those that have larger chunks of time to play will be the only ones who can get the best gear? This isn’t even a skill issue, it’s a time issue. Raids discriminate people on a time-basis, rarely on a skill basis, as raids aren’t difficult content, they are just really long dungeons.
your way of thinking is the biggest problem the gaming industrie has
when you dont have time to play enough football per week to be good than you never will play in a good team
simple – thats how things work
when you dont have enough time to play it than dont ask for the biggest rewards
Your type of thinking is the biggest problem the gaming industry has. Because you think there are enough people that can spent so many hours a week playing games, and getting good at them, when in fact, most people can’t. And many people who do pay very high prices.
It’s a game. It’s not a job. It’s a bit of entertainment. Those who see games as more than they are are probably worse for the industry, because their actions often chase people away from games. The hard core people who chase people away are probably the reason hard core is dying.
Hard core players are their own worst enemy.
Actually games which bring the biggest profits are easy-to-pick-up but hard-to-master . Just look at LOL,COD,BF,Halo and other games like that . Every casual can turn on this game and have much fun but hardcore players can master these games to perfection and kill everything on their way .
Problem in gw is that we dont have any challenge for more hardcore crowd . There should be 2 living story option , story mode = easy brainless spamming 11111, and explorer mode with bosses like liadri . And casual cant say “i cant finish it nerf it pls !” but the only one problem is that hardcore players want better rewards and casual want to obtain every reward by doing world bosses or cof p1 .
But anyway just look at destiny . Leveling,story mode proces is casual friendly but end game is for true veterans(first raid was finished in 10 hours , now people finish it under 2h) and people play this game and cant stop .
Yes GAMES, not MMORPGs. The fact is there are all sorts of games and some of them are very popular…but shooters aren’t MMORPGs and people who play shooters often play them for different reasons. There aren’t likely many who play shooters to RP or to just experience the story. Like Mass Effect 2 was a shooter but it wasn’t a shooter. You could play in easy mode and enjoy the story.
Comparing COD to MMORPGs has all sorts of problems with it. There’s one thing you play COD to do and that’s kill other players. I’m pretty sure most players in this game aren’t PvPers.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Wait rpg means easy/casual? When did this occur.
Also you do realize the game was and is advertised as having action combat? Don’t say fighting game like its a dirty word. They have some of the most balanced finrly tuned responsive action systems out there.
There are things to be learned from fighting games.
Also some fighting games are fairly accessible, ever play powerstone?
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Wait rpg means easy/casual? When did this occur.
Also you do realize the game was and is advertised as having action combat? Don’t say fighting game like its a dirty word. They have some of the most balanced finrly tuned responsive action systems out there.
There are things to be learned from fighting games.
Also some fighting games are fairly accessible, ever play powerstone?
You miss my point. What made a lot of RPGs hard where thinking challenges, not fighting challenges. The problem is that people who want hard stuff, they’re really looking for boss fights. Since when did RPGs become all about boss fights. I remember older RPGs we didn’t even know what a boss fight was. It was about story, and lore.
My point is all sorts of people play these games and not all of them are after challenge. In fact many aren’t after challenge. They’re after immersion, collecting, achievement point hunting (even if there’s no achievement to it), getting rich by playing the market.
You should look at the people I’m responding to, instead of taking my text out of context. Because it is a response.
Since when does everyone who plays RPGs or even most people play them for the challenge. Most people that I knew didn’t. They played the for the story.
Guild Wars 2 needs help in that department too, but that doesn’t mean that’s not why a lot of people play the game. Or to explore an fantasy world with cool stuff.
The question is do most people want challenge? I don’t think so. Did most people play RPGs to be challenged? Not in the same sense of challenge a lot of people in this thread are asking for.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Wait rpg means easy/casual? When did this occur.
Also you do realize the game was and is advertised as having action combat? Don’t say fighting game like its a dirty word. They have some of the most balanced finrly tuned responsive action systems out there.
There are things to be learned from fighting games.
Also some fighting games are fairly accessible, ever play powerstone?You miss my point. What made a lot of RPGs hard where thinking challenges, not fighting challenges. The problem is that people who want hard stuff, they’re really looking for boss fights. Since when did RPGs become all about boss fights. I remember older RPGs we didn’t even know what a boss fight was. It was about story, and lore.
My point is all sorts of people play these games and not all of them are after challenge. In fact many aren’t after challenge. They’re after immersion, collecting, achievement point hunting (even if there’s no achievement to it), getting rich by playing the market.
You should look at the people I’m responding to, instead of taking my text out of context. Because it is a response.
Since when does everyone who plays RPGs or even most people play them for the challenge. Most people that I knew didn’t. They played the for the story.
Guild Wars 2 needs help in that department too, but that doesn’t mean that’s not why a lot of people play the game. Or to explore an fantasy world with cool stuff.
The question is do most people want challenge? I don’t think so. Did most people play RPGs to be challenged? Not in the same sense of challenge a lot of people in this thread are asking for.
Thing is this is an action rpg, that includes action and combat is a major part of the focus. If it was a turn.based rpg or rts rpg you would have a point. But its not.
And part of the reason its action based is to have a wider appeal. The combat is one of the major facets of this game and they need content that makes full use of that
I played RPGs like KOTOR and Baldur’s Gate for the story and the immersion (even though at one point in one of the BG games I gave one of my characters an Eric Cartman voice pack). Any challenges encountered along the way were appreciated or not depending on my ability to overcome them. For instance, I wasn’t particularly good at some of the races in KOTOR.
The (as one friend put it, and be advised I’m paraphrasing here) ‘Sherlock Holmes stuff’ over in The Secret World was more challenging (and more fun, to me) than any amount of avoiding red circles. Unfortunately, that sort of challenge it isn’t quite as much fun the second time around, while dodging red circles never gets old… ahem.
I do like certain types of challenges, though. In City of Heroes, I loved rounding up vast quantities of foes and then trying to take them all out before they could take out my hero/villain. I try that here, in GW2, sometimes, and sometimes I almost get that happy old “It’s Clobbering Time!” feeling, but it doesn’t usually work because of rapid respawns or adds that just seem to keep on adding no matter how many foes I defeat.
In Guild Wars I enjoyed things like farming the raptors and soloing bosses for their greens – not so much for the loot, but for the fun of being able to do it. A friend and I used to take a pair of rangers into one of the Zaishen Challenge things to see how far we could get. We had strategies worked out and all that. Woo hoo. And I had a blast filling up my necro’s Master Dungeon Guide with mostly heroes/henchies.
Anyway, ramble ramble ramble. I guess I’m more or less agreeing with Vayne. Challenge isn’t the main draw for me with MMOs, but I do enjoy my share of challenges if I have fun attempting them (and I don’t feel like the devs are cheating, which is all too often the case here).
The table is a fable.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Wait rpg means easy/casual? When did this occur.
Also you do realize the game was and is advertised as having action combat? Don’t say fighting game like its a dirty word. They have some of the most balanced finrly tuned responsive action systems out there.
There are things to be learned from fighting games.
Also some fighting games are fairly accessible, ever play powerstone?You miss my point. What made a lot of RPGs hard where thinking challenges, not fighting challenges. The problem is that people who want hard stuff, they’re really looking for boss fights. Since when did RPGs become all about boss fights. I remember older RPGs we didn’t even know what a boss fight was. It was about story, and lore.
My point is all sorts of people play these games and not all of them are after challenge. In fact many aren’t after challenge. They’re after immersion, collecting, achievement point hunting (even if there’s no achievement to it), getting rich by playing the market.
You should look at the people I’m responding to, instead of taking my text out of context. Because it is a response.
Since when does everyone who plays RPGs or even most people play them for the challenge. Most people that I knew didn’t. They played the for the story.
Guild Wars 2 needs help in that department too, but that doesn’t mean that’s not why a lot of people play the game. Or to explore an fantasy world with cool stuff.
The question is do most people want challenge? I don’t think so. Did most people play RPGs to be challenged? Not in the same sense of challenge a lot of people in this thread are asking for.
Thing is this is an action rpg, that includes action and combat is a major part of the focus. If it was a turn.based rpg or rts rpg you would have a point. But its not.
And part of the reason its action based is to have a wider appeal. The combat is one of the major facets of this game and they need content that makes full use of that
Completely irrelevant to what I’m saying.
I don’t care if it’s an action massed mmoRPG or not. It’s an RPG that some people play for other reasons than just action. You’re still not looking at the posts I responded to. People are comparing this to professional football and COD.
COD as far as I know, there’s one reason to play it. To kill other players. That’s it. So yeah, that’s the focus of people who play it.
But mmoRPGs have other focuses and whether this game is turned based, or action or strategy or anything else, there are still different people playing for different reasons. You can bring up action based until you’re blue and it doesn’t change the fact that people play mmoRPGs for reasons other than the action based combat. Not just one or two people. A bunch of people.
So yeah, when you talk about wanting challenge you’ve got different groups of people who may or many not want different types of challenge. If you want to try to refuse this by saying this an action MMO go ahead. But it’s not refuting what I’m saying in any way.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.
I can’t wait till the new raid comes out too. Because it’s so not going to be what you’re expecting it to me. I’m going to be massively entertained at the outcry of people who think raiding is the raiding they new before. I’m pretty sure there’s zero chance that will be the case.
I played RPGs like KOTOR and Baldur’s Gate for the story and the immersion (even though at one point in one of the BG games I gave one of my characters an Eric Cartman voice pack). Any challenges encountered along the way were appreciated or not depending on my ability to overcome them. For instance, I wasn’t particularly good at some of the races in KOTOR.
The (as one friend put it, and be advised I’m paraphrasing here) ‘Sherlock Holmes stuff’ over in The Secret World was more challenging (and more fun, to me) than any amount of avoiding red circles. Unfortunately, that sort of challenge it isn’t quite as much fun the second time around, while dodging red circles never gets old… ahem.
I do like certain types of challenges, though. In City of Heroes, I loved rounding up vast quantities of foes and then trying to take them all out before they could take out my hero/villain. I try that here, in GW2, sometimes, and sometimes I almost get that happy old “It’s Clobbering Time!” feeling, but it doesn’t usually work because of rapid respawns or adds that just seem to keep on adding no matter how many foes I defeat.
In Guild Wars I enjoyed things like farming the raptors and soloing bosses for their greens – not so much for the loot, but for the fun of being able to do it. A friend and I used to take a pair of rangers into one of the Zaishen Challenge things to see how far we could get. We had strategies worked out and all that. Woo hoo. And I had a blast filling up my necro’s Master Dungeon Guide with mostly heroes/henchies.
Anyway, ramble ramble ramble. I guess I’m more or less agreeing with Vayne. Challenge isn’t the main draw for me with MMOs, but I do enjoy my share of challenges if I have fun attempting them (and I don’t feel like the devs are cheating, which is all too often the case here).
This is how I feel too. I don’t mind challenges. I do most, if not all of them. But they’re definitely not a focus for me and, I suspect, many other people.
The problem is, how can you really get a count of how many people like what? I suspect it’s a lot easier to claim you have a majority than it is to prove it.
idk how most people feel but i did not buy this game for pve
the name of the game is guild wars!
but all they do is pve content.
i wish they would focus on guild wars.
not story time
i want to have a character to defending tyria and attack it
guilds and how they fight each other should be the story not
boring challenges about scarlet and how she is attacking the world
kill 50 of this
collect 250 of this
now fight this npc
that is lame…
anet u have awesome character classes .
stop pretending u are a pve game and take wvw and pvp serious
(edited by caveman.5840)
I’d like difficult content, but I would also like to be assured that I will receive appropriate rewards before investing the time & energy.
Tequatl is a good example: requires coordination and strategy (hard to do in a game with such terrible communication tools) and has a chance (probably less than 1 percent) of dropping something good. Why on earth would I want to invest the time (have to be on the map an hour early) for a nearly non-existent chance at a marginally cooler-looking skin?
I’d like difficult content, but I would also like to be assured that I will receive appropriate rewards before investing the time & energy.
Tequatl is a good example: requires coordination and strategy (hard to do in a game with such terrible communication tools) and has a chance (probably less than 1 percent) of dropping something good. Why on earth would I want to invest the time (have to be on the map an hour early) for a nearly non-existent chance at a marginally cooler-looking skin?
Exactly this.The content and reward have to be on equal foot.
TxS – Tequatl Slayer Alliance (EU)
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.I can’t wait till the new raid comes out too. Because it’s so not going to be what you’re expecting it to me. I’m going to be massively entertained at the outcry of people who think raiding is the raiding they new before. I’m pretty sure there’s zero chance that will be the case.
Of course it won’t be like the raiding i knew before.Why?Because the bloody holy trinity is not here.That is what makes raiding great in other MMOs and why dungeons in this game are such a mess.
I really like bosses like Wurm and Tequatl.They make you change specs and bring different builds that are NOT only zerker.I do those two bosses every day and i adore them.I really hope the future raids to be as hard as them or even more.If they are for less people will be great.Because at this time only huge organised guilds can do Wurm.
TxS – Tequatl Slayer Alliance (EU)
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.I can’t wait till the new raid comes out too. Because it’s so not going to be what you’re expecting it to me. I’m going to be massively entertained at the outcry of people who think raiding is the raiding they new before. I’m pretty sure there’s zero chance that will be the case.
The joke’s on you. I never raided before. You have no idea what I’m expecting.
Still – i feel tears coming – and I believe they’ll be mostly cried by casuals.
We shall see.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Well I think challenging content would mean not stacking in one spot spamming skills for one thing. The dungeons which are hard require you not to do this in some fashion. I think Fractals are a good way they tried to get away from that. But I have been running CoE everyday to get some good armor for some of my alts and let me tell you, it gets very boring.
The endless gear grind of other games isn’t really something I’d want to see come to this game. Reason I mentioned Queens Gauntlet before is because that to me is challenging. It required you alone to learn and manuever and strategize, knowing your class’s strengths and skill sets. I missed out on this year’s Queen’s Jubilee for the most part but, from what I remember of it when it first came around it was quite fun and challenging. Maybe something that requires more than just standing in one place spamming.
Teq is decently good at this I guess, but I sort of get bored with massive zerg fights regardless of what strategy is involved. If it’s done on a smaller scale akin to dungeons with a party of 5 then maybe. I’ve done some Raid type stuff in other games I’ve played and honestly didn’t care for it much. I’ve never played WoW and have no desire to so maybe I’m missing out but, anything that feels like a chore just to get cool things isn’t really worth it in my opinion. Games should be challenging for those who want it, yes, but never to a point where it feels like work. Then it just isn’t fun anymore once you know the exact ins and outs of the mechanics of the fight. Because that’s when people devise stacking and smacking and perfecting it so much it can be done in less and less time. That’s not playing a game it’s just… mind numbing work.
(edited by LadyHorus.8214)
an 8+ man against crippled Zhaitan
What is this blissful sensation I’m feeling-
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.I can’t wait till the new raid comes out too. Because it’s so not going to be what you’re expecting it to me. I’m going to be massively entertained at the outcry of people who think raiding is the raiding they new before. I’m pretty sure there’s zero chance that will be the case.
The joke’s on you. I never raided before. You have no idea what I’m expecting.
Still – i feel tears coming – and I believe they’ll be mostly cried by casuals.We shall see.
I’ve beaten all the content in this game except Liadri, mostly because I found it boring/annoying. I’m 100% sure I could have sat there and tried again and again. I just didn’t enjoy it.
I’ve done Triple Threat. All the guild missions. But they’re making it guild stuff, and a lot of casual players don’t guild up or are in very very small guilds.
It’s certainly not going to affect me that way.
Not even close, the hardcore crowd hardly ever cheeses fights anyway.
It’s the hardcores, not the casuals, that do the whole “stack and burn dungeon bosses while afk and drinking coffee” routines. Just saying…
One part of being hardcore is always looking for the most efficient ways to finish encounters, after all – if you don’t cheese, you are not trying enough.
That only shows how little you know about gw2 combat. There is no way you can afk press 1 any encounter in dungeons on berserker gear, let alone in fractals where there’s hardly any corner stacking aside from trash mobs anyway.
Knowing your class and how to use it in dungeons is not cheesing, it’s knowing how to play.
There are safespots where you can range a boss down??
No, what I meant was…you find them stacked in a corner AoEing the crap out of the mobs with guardian reflect up. In fact, almost every single encounter is a form of stack, burn. They use very little strategy beyond stack and burn yet consider themselves awesome players.
Not knocking stack and burn as I’ve used it on many occasions and certainly makes some parts go quicker; just saying that isn’t skill, that’s cheese.
When I PUG FOTM49 or FOTM50 and I’m with the so-called hard-cores, all they want to do is stack here, skip through these, stack there, we pull mobs, blast cooldowns with reflect wall up, maybe have to dodge, skip through these mobs, stack, DPS, stack, DPS. Unless there’s another group of hard-cores somewhere that have a secret society where they purposely don’t stack and burn….
So you don’t have to dodge mossman, archdiviner, veteran grawl shaman, mai trin? You just stack and burn with reflects up? Aside from certain classes full melee is the highest DPS so yes, you will all “stack” but not in corners, there are hardly any corners in fractals that it’s worth to stack behind. Unless you’re talking about the same meaningless, boring trash mobs we’ve been fighting for the last 2 years. Obviously you’re gonna do that with trash mobs, AoEing the crap out of them isn’t different from other MMOs. There a tank pulls em, here we don’t have aggro management so we use line of sight.
(edited by cranos.5913)
The joke’s on you. I never raided before. You have no idea what I’m expecting.
Still – i feel tears coming – and I believe they’ll be mostly cried by casuals.
In a game whose target audience is casuals, you really, really don’t want to happen.
There is no way you can afk press 1 any encounter in dungeons on berserker gear, let alone in fractals where there’s hardly any corner stacking aside from trash mobs anyway.
True, the whole “spamming autoattack while afk” argument is (and has always been) a strawman – but it’s the hardcores, not casuals, that come closest to it in this game.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I never learned typing .. still type with 4 fingers and have to look onto the keyboard
all the time .. and thats why i’m a bad gamer .. even if i’m maybe better than all
these leet player in chess .. because for that you don’t need typing skills, just your
brain.
I don’t know. I never learned touch typing either, and still have to watch my fingers when typing, but I can handle gameplay controls just fine. Still, there is an argument to be made for an over-reliance on twitch gaming = gaming skill, when there are other skills that matter.
I do consider my strength to be in strategic play, in that when there is content that is new to me, I can usually figure out the mechanics and where I fit into them very easily, you know, what to dodge and when, what to hit with and when, that sort of thing, but within a few days the tactics for any new content are widely known and all a player has to do is follow the patterns written out by someone else. It’d be really tricky though to design content that would require changing tactics constantly.
:S you ask me what difference it makes and then you talk about what content you prefer… So obviously it makes a difference for people in what way harder content is presented.
Well, you were basically saying “it doesn’t have to be raids,” as if that made it any better. The real problem for me would be the idea of them making harder content that offers a better reward cycle for players that enjoy that sort of content than for players that don’t. So long as the “hardcore” content does not offer better rewards per time, I don’t care what form it comes in, raid, solo, 5-man, whatever.
As far as nerfing teq and tri-wurm is concerned, I really don’t see the need. Maps will still be capped and it’ll be just more and more easy.
They don’t need to be nerfed, but ideally they would be more adaptive to the players engaging the content, so that they wouldn’t fail as often with less than a fully capped, fully organized map. The mechanics could be left intact, they’d mainly just need to tweak the time limits and DPS checks.
3) Casuals are entitled – usually because of the way they’re made up psychologically people like this feel entitled to this or that just because they bought the game.
More hardcore players aren’t really like this – and most realize that you have to earn your prestige, rewards and whatnot.
That’s not the casual though – “I bought this game – I should be able to get X item”.
I don’t know, hardcore players seem pretty entitled to me, they just take a different tack with it, “I completed content that was harder, I should be able to get better stuff, even though I added nothing of value worthy of higher reward.”
Not everything is for everybody – and if you can’t make the time to play the game long enough or good enough to get the reward then you shouldn’t get them.
Or – if the developers want money – you should be made to pay high amounts of real world currency to get them.
But why do you feel that your higher skill entitles you to better rewards? You aren’t providing any value for it, you aren’t improving the game by being more skilled than other players. Rewards are there to make each player feel that they are doing well and having a good time. If a reward makes one hardcore player happy, but makes even two non-hardcore players sad because they can’t get it, then that is a reward that is doing bad at its job. ANet gets nothing out of making one hardcore player happy at the cost of several casuals, so why should they make special effort to make you happy and them sad? Why do you believe that you’re entitled to that special treatment?
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I think SAB had a good system quite honestly (not to open this can of worms again). Everyone can get the blue skins from playing, and/or purchasing. However you can upgrade the skins via playing the harder content (the mind-numbing trial and error, which can be argued is less of a difficulty test and more of a patience test) to have a different color/glow.
As I said, this didn’t personally bother me because I preferred blue to yellow and green, but if blue were not the default I’d definitely have a problem with it. I don’t mind “hardcore” players getting a unique signifiier, so long as it is the most pointless, purely cosmetic reward, like more cosmetic even than skins. Titles are fine by me. One game I dabble in makes it so that once you level cap you can reset to level 1 and go through again, and repeat several times, and all this accomplishes is that your nametag cycles through colors to show how many times you’ve done this. That’s fine. If someone wants to show off that they’ve done something difficult, I’m ok with that, but as someone that values customization, I don’t like tying it into any sort of actual customization options, because any customization option you lock behind a difficulty barrier might be some weak player’s favorite look!
Exactly this.The content and reward have to be on equal foot.
Yes, and that I’m fine with. Teq takes at least twenty minutes to complete, in my experience. So every time you beat him, you should get a full twenty minutes worth of loot. The only thing you shouldn’t get is special loot that other players can’t get without specifically doing Teq.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.I can’t wait till the new raid comes out too. Because it’s so not going to be what you’re expecting it to me. I’m going to be massively entertained at the outcry of people who think raiding is the raiding they new before. I’m pretty sure there’s zero chance that will be the case.
The joke’s on you. I never raided before. You have no idea what I’m expecting.
Still – i feel tears coming – and I believe they’ll be mostly cried by casuals.We shall see.
I’ve beaten all the content in this game except Liadri, mostly because I found it boring/annoying. I’m 100% sure I could have sat there and tried again and again. I just didn’t enjoy it.
I’ve done Triple Threat. All the guild missions. But they’re making it guild stuff, and a lot of casual players don’t guild up or are in very very small guilds.
It’s certainly not going to affect me that way.
It’s not the content itself, but the massive QQ by the casuals that will get to you. That’s what I’m expecting at least.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.I can’t wait till the new raid comes out too. Because it’s so not going to be what you’re expecting it to me. I’m going to be massively entertained at the outcry of people who think raiding is the raiding they new before. I’m pretty sure there’s zero chance that will be the case.
The joke’s on you. I never raided before. You have no idea what I’m expecting.
Still – i feel tears coming – and I believe they’ll be mostly cried by casuals.We shall see.
I’ve beaten all the content in this game except Liadri, mostly because I found it boring/annoying. I’m 100% sure I could have sat there and tried again and again. I just didn’t enjoy it.
I’ve done Triple Threat. All the guild missions. But they’re making it guild stuff, and a lot of casual players don’t guild up or are in very very small guilds.
It’s certainly not going to affect me that way.
It’s not the content itself, but the massive QQ by the casuals that will get to you. That’s what I’m expecting at least.
I suspect the QQ will be from small and middle sized guilds, rather than casuals. Like when Guild Missions first came out.
So you don’t have to dodge mossman, archdiviner, veteran grawl shaman, mai trin? You just stack and burn with reflects up? Aside from certain classes full melee is the highest DPS so yes, you will all “stack” but not in corners, there are hardly any corners in fractals that it’s worth to stack behind. Unless you’re talking about the same meaningless, boring trash mobs we’ve been fighting for the last 2 years. Obviously you’re gonna do that with trash mobs, AoEing the crap out of them isn’t different from other MMOs. There a tank pulls em, here we don’t have aggro management so we use line of sight.
I was more referring to the non-boss portions. There are encounters that are more difficult than just fighting trash, that “skilled” players reduce to stacking (yes in a corner, or behind a rock, or behind a wall, I wasn’t specifically saying corners only).
Perfect example, Aetherblade fractal. The part where you are supposed to fight the mobs while avoiding cannon fire. You cannot tell me you don’t stack in the left corner and pull them to you to burn them down so you don’t have to worry about cannon fire. I’ve literally never done it without stacking, because nobody wants to have the fight harder than it needs to be. Which leads into the boss. That’s another stack and burn the golems strategy. I’ve never seen someone in 49/50 do either of those encounters without stacking. The reason? There is little room for error and the “skilled” players simply don’t want to risk wiping.
Same goes with Molten Facility. That final weapons test chamber at level 49/50 would be really HARD, but of course the really skilled players clearly are just too skilled to waste their time with that, so what do we do? We stack at one gate for one type of weapons attack, move to a different gate for a different type of attack, then run in when the core is vulnerable.
Or Cliffside, the last seals. Everyone, by now, knows that of course you leave one of the enchanters alive at the first seal, you know, because we don’t want to have to deal with the extra challenge of a ton of mobs, nope not us skilled players. We want to use cheesy mechanics to make what would be a legitimately hard encounter, into one of the easiest seal challenges.
Or Uncategorized fractal, the harpies. We can all agree it is frustrating fighting them on those platforms, in fact, some may say it takes coordination of stability uses to get through it without dying. But for some reason most of the skilled players I’ve played with would rather throw up some SR, AoE stability, speed, and run through them so they don’t have to deal with the added challenge of stability rotation/communication.
Or Snowblind, the large fire. Most groups nowadays just kite the mobs while someone keeps the fire up. They don’t even fight the mobs anymore, because it made it too much of a risk of dying I suppose. Then of course the dark path to the boss, I don’t think I’ve ever been in a group that didn’t skip that entire area. If you died, oh well, as long as one person made it you can rez at the boss.
You will never hear me say you can cheese everything in Fractals, because honestly cannot. There are luckily encounters that are impossible to cheese. But if you do fractals (or dungeons for that matter) as often as I do, you know exactly what I’m talking about when I say that challenging content will be avoided if the game mechanics allow it, even by the skilled players that are asking for more challenging content (which is ironic).
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Can’t wait till the new Raid content comes out.
Gonna be fun watching your reaction.I can’t wait till the new raid comes out too. Because it’s so not going to be what you’re expecting it to me. I’m going to be massively entertained at the outcry of people who think raiding is the raiding they new before. I’m pretty sure there’s zero chance that will be the case.
The joke’s on you. I never raided before. You have no idea what I’m expecting.
Still – i feel tears coming – and I believe they’ll be mostly cried by casuals.We shall see.
I’ve beaten all the content in this game except Liadri, mostly because I found it boring/annoying. I’m 100% sure I could have sat there and tried again and again. I just didn’t enjoy it.
I’ve done Triple Threat. All the guild missions. But they’re making it guild stuff, and a lot of casual players don’t guild up or are in very very small guilds.
It’s certainly not going to affect me that way.
It’s not the content itself, but the massive QQ by the casuals that will get to you. That’s what I’m expecting at least.
I suspect the QQ will be from small and middle sized guilds, rather than casuals. Like when Guild Missions first came out.
That’s just describing casual guilds.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
I suspect the QQ will be from small and middle sized guilds, rather than casuals. Like when Guild Missions first came out.
That’s just describing casual guilds.
Ah, yeah, because obviously big zerg is more hardcore than a small group.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I suspect the QQ will be from small and middle sized guilds, rather than casuals. Like when Guild Missions first came out.
That’s just describing casual guilds.
Ah, yeah, because obviously big zerg is more hardcore than a small group.
Big guilds aren’t necessarily hard core and small guilds aren’t necessarily casual. Small dungeon running guilds exist, where people just run dungeons as a team. They get really good because it’s the same handful of dedicated guys. Some small guilds run around WvW as havoc groups. They’re not big guilds but they’re definitely hard core about their gaming.
Some people just like to know and be friends with everyone in their guild.
By the same token, I wouldn’t call many of the big guilds I’ve seen hard core, since they take literally anyone.
40 people standing under gigant boss and you cant even see any aoe , skillfull as hell . In my opinion most world-bosses should be immune to melee dmg in this way it would be much easier to control boss aoes .
To answer the OP’s fourth question:
I would like to see more content that involves greater elements of mental challenge, in smaller-scale encounters (not zerg-fests).
Mental challenge can include:
- Build preparation (choice of gear, skills, traits, food).
- Maintaining awareness of enemy positions and actions, and formulating responses to the evolving situation.
- Observing patterns in enemy behaviour and preparing for them.
- Making best use of the surrounding terrain (includes jumping puzzles).
- Resisting the urge to scream at the computer when your toon dies (maybe not this one).
It’s not possible to entirely remove the element of physical (reflex) challenge, unless it’s a puzzle similar to the one at the end of Tears of Itlaocol. I’d rather play a single-player puzzle game or turn-based RPG (X-Com, Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2) for that sort of thing.
I liked the LS Season 2 encounters. They tended to build upon earlier encounters and gradually introduced more things to keep track of during the fights. I know these were not everyone’s cup of tea, but since they are designed as Level 80 content it’s not unfair to expect a certain level of familiarity with your profession skills and knowing how to use them in different situations.
Main problem is that it takes time to design, create and test such encounters…and relatively little time for people to play through and eventually master them. Without the artificial time gating shenanigans used by other MMORPGs, this leads to a perceived lack of longevity.
I haven’t played since around launch and I’m currently patching the game and decided to read the forums while I wait to see what’s up. I’m a filthy casual player. After highschool, life tends to do that to you.
So in my general case, having content that I could actually get to while only being able to play a couple nights over the weekend is ideal. At the same time, when I had all that free time in the past I was a hardcore mmo player and that still sticks with me. I loved to see people with insane gear and seeing content that was hard to get to and hard to beat. I was always thinking, “Wow I can’t wait until I can get that and see those things.” I rarely did mind you (alt-oholic, no matter what game I play lol) but I love challenging game play. Dark souls 2 anyone?
That being said before I make it too obvious that my whole life is one big contradiction, I can stand behind difficult content that requires thought or player skill. At the same time make that fun, challenging content, accessible to the larger player base. I don’t believe there should be unwritten rules where challenging content, if it exist, should only be reserved to those who can dedicate x amount of time to the game.
I may not be able to play often, but when I do a challenging dungeon or encounter that I can go to is always welcome.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Wait rpg means easy/casual? When did this occur.
Also you do realize the game was and is advertised as having action combat? Don’t say fighting game like its a dirty word. They have some of the most balanced finrly tuned responsive action systems out there.
There are things to be learned from fighting games.
Also some fighting games are fairly accessible, ever play powerstone?You miss my point. What made a lot of RPGs hard where thinking challenges, not fighting challenges. The problem is that people who want hard stuff, they’re really looking for boss fights. Since when did RPGs become all about boss fights. I remember older RPGs we didn’t even know what a boss fight was. It was about story, and lore.
My point is all sorts of people play these games and not all of them are after challenge. In fact many aren’t after challenge. They’re after immersion, collecting, achievement point hunting (even if there’s no achievement to it), getting rich by playing the market.
You should look at the people I’m responding to, instead of taking my text out of context. Because it is a response.
Since when does everyone who plays RPGs or even most people play them for the challenge. Most people that I knew didn’t. They played the for the story.
Guild Wars 2 needs help in that department too, but that doesn’t mean that’s not why a lot of people play the game. Or to explore an fantasy world with cool stuff.
The question is do most people want challenge? I don’t think so. Did most people play RPGs to be challenged? Not in the same sense of challenge a lot of people in this thread are asking for.
I feel that some sort of challenge is needed for the immersion. Did you feel like the Hero of Shaemore when you got that title in the PS? I sure didn’t. Did you really believe that Zhaitan was this all-powerful and nearly unbeatable foe when you fought him? I sure didnt.
Even console RPGs have challenging fights to materialise the sense of threat. I can be told this guy is powerful as nuts and ate worlds for breakfast, but if I feel that power, I’m not convinced, I just think the rest of the characters are idiots.
/threadwin
Just because you say threadwin, doesn’t mean anything’s been won. Do you see the game getting much harder. I don’t. Do you want to know why? Because Anet knows what side the bread is buttered on.
The thread was lost the moment someone tried to convince the rest of us that the MMORPG playerbase largely consists of people who want hard/challenging content.
Maybe they should take the words RPG out of it, and just make it a fighting game. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Wait rpg means easy/casual? When did this occur.
Also you do realize the game was and is advertised as having action combat? Don’t say fighting game like its a dirty word. They have some of the most balanced finrly tuned responsive action systems out there.
There are things to be learned from fighting games.
Also some fighting games are fairly accessible, ever play powerstone?You miss my point. What made a lot of RPGs hard where thinking challenges, not fighting challenges. The problem is that people who want hard stuff, they’re really looking for boss fights. Since when did RPGs become all about boss fights. I remember older RPGs we didn’t even know what a boss fight was. It was about story, and lore.
My point is all sorts of people play these games and not all of them are after challenge. In fact many aren’t after challenge. They’re after immersion, collecting, achievement point hunting (even if there’s no achievement to it), getting rich by playing the market.
You should look at the people I’m responding to, instead of taking my text out of context. Because it is a response.
Since when does everyone who plays RPGs or even most people play them for the challenge. Most people that I knew didn’t. They played the for the story.
Guild Wars 2 needs help in that department too, but that doesn’t mean that’s not why a lot of people play the game. Or to explore an fantasy world with cool stuff.
The question is do most people want challenge? I don’t think so. Did most people play RPGs to be challenged? Not in the same sense of challenge a lot of people in this thread are asking for.
I feel that some sort of challenge is needed for the immersion. Did you feel like the Hero of Shaemore when you got that title in the PS? I sure didn’t. Did you really believe that Zhaitan was this all-powerful and nearly unbeatable foe when you fought him? I sure didnt.
Even console RPGs have challenging fights to materialise the sense of threat. I can be told this guy is powerful as nuts and ate worlds for breakfast, but if I feel that power, I’m not convinced, I just think the rest of the characters are idiots.
Well yeah, I did feel that about Zhaitan because I think drama as in book and not boss fight as in game.
I spent ten levels fighting Zhaitan. Cutting off a lot of his power. The last bit was the final cut scene.
You cut off his food supply and spies, you wiped out vast amounts of his army and his top commanders, but you didn’t weaken the dragon himself. When you fought him, it was implied he was still at his full power. That’s why there was all the talk before that final confrontation.
I suspect the QQ will be from small and middle sized guilds, rather than casuals. Like when Guild Missions first came out.
That’s just describing casual guilds.
Ah, yeah, because obviously big zerg is more hardcore than a small group.
Big guilds aren’t necessarily hard core and small guilds aren’t necessarily casual. Small dungeon running guilds exist, where people just run dungeons as a team. They get really good because it’s the same handful of dedicated guys. Some small guilds run around WvW as havoc groups. They’re not big guilds but they’re definitely hard core about their gaming.
Some people just like to know and be friends with everyone in their guild.
By the same token, I wouldn’t call many of the big guilds I’ve seen hard core, since they take literally anyone.
The bigger your guild is – at least in GW2 – the more benefits you get from it. Influence alone makes a huge impact – but the more people you generally have the better its.
That’s why – my personal experience is that bigger guilds are more invested in the game because they attract players that want those benefits of a big guild.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
To answer the OP’s fourth question:
I would like to see more content that involves greater elements of mental challenge, in smaller-scale encounters (not zerg-fests).
Mental challenge can include:
- Build preparation (choice of gear, skills, traits, food).
- Maintaining awareness of enemy positions and actions, and formulating responses to the evolving situation.
- Observing patterns in enemy behaviour and preparing for them.
- Making best use of the surrounding terrain (includes jumping puzzles).
- Resisting the urge to scream at the computer when your toon dies (maybe not this one).
It’s not possible to entirely remove the element of physical (reflex) challenge, unless it’s a puzzle similar to the one at the end of Tears of Itlaocol. I’d rather play a single-player puzzle game or turn-based RPG (X-Com, Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2) for that sort of thing.
I liked the LS Season 2 encounters. They tended to build upon earlier encounters and gradually introduced more things to keep track of during the fights. I know these were not everyone’s cup of tea, but since they are designed as Level 80 content it’s not unfair to expect a certain level of familiarity with your profession skills and knowing how to use them in different situations.
Main problem is that it takes time to design, create and test such encounters…and relatively little time for people to play through and eventually master them. Without the artificial time gating shenanigans used by other MMORPGs, this leads to a perceived lack of longevity.
Mental challenges aren’t worth the development time.
One player/one group just has to beat it and upload a guide/video of it and that’s it. Done. Everyone can do it provided they try and copy what the first group has done.
This sort of thing worked back in the day – when there weren’t as many written guilds and content creators invested in creating videos/guides for almost every game.
Every game – from CoD to BF4, Starcraft 2 and GW2 now have youtubers that deal with that game – promote the best strategies and builds and teach you how to master it without you having to strain your mind at all.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
But still I think that patch fixing mobs,bosses AI would be enough(in the beginning) , just try running some dungs without stacking in the corner , they arent so easy . And fixing AI actually is the easiest , you dont have to fix every single mob , there is one AI mechanic used by all enemies
You cut off his food supply and spies, you wiped out vast amounts of his army and his top commanders, but you didn’t weaken the dragon himself. When you fought him, it was implied he was still at his full power. That’s why there was all the talk before that final confrontation.
The dragon was hit by a beam of anti-dragon magic created by Professor Gor. If you followed that Asuran story line you’d know exactly what he was hit with with that laser. Already not eating, partially blinded, he was hit with literally a superweapon.
In that Asuran story the whole process of it’s discovery and later on its creation and testing is documented.
Of course, that does no good to anyone who hasn’t played it.1
I suspect the QQ will be from small and middle sized guilds, rather than casuals. Like when Guild Missions first came out.
That’s just describing casual guilds.
Ah, yeah, because obviously big zerg is more hardcore than a small group.
Big guilds aren’t necessarily hard core and small guilds aren’t necessarily casual. Small dungeon running guilds exist, where people just run dungeons as a team. They get really good because it’s the same handful of dedicated guys. Some small guilds run around WvW as havoc groups. They’re not big guilds but they’re definitely hard core about their gaming.
Some people just like to know and be friends with everyone in their guild.
By the same token, I wouldn’t call many of the big guilds I’ve seen hard core, since they take literally anyone.
The bigger your guild is – at least in GW2 – the more benefits you get from it. Influence alone makes a huge impact – but the more people you generally have the better its.
That’s why – my personal experience is that bigger guilds are more invested in the game because they attract players that want those benefits of a big guild.
My guild has 150 people in it and I don’t really think any of us are there for the “benefits”. But yes, many would be. It’s why we don’t recruit.
The content already exist, adding more content just shift the ratio. The ratio of easy content vs hard content just favor the former. People keep mistaking “moderately challenging” content for difficult content which they aren’t. Moderately challenging content are more in the middle ground. I can understand why people are arguing for more “moderately challenging” content which actually make sense. For the sake of political correctness, I would think people who argue for actual difficult content is but a small vocal minority.
Sidebar Re: the Zhaitan fight.
I think it would have been cool if, after softening him up a bit, we could have jumped off the ship and landed on his head, and then we could have ridden that kitten-juggling rascal back to Claw Island where we could then administer the coup de grace by grabbing his ears and giving him the ol’ TV show neck snap, after which we could bring in expert taxidermists from all over Tyria to stuff and mount (and maybe even bronze) the elderly draconic remains, complete with a plaque that said Dragons is so Stupid.
Reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yobj1Zv91KA
And then have artists draw lifelike renderings (or better yet, create holograms!) which could be air-dropped in the territories claimed by the other Elder Dragons.
Also, the Pact might have devised some form of ‘Dragonbuster’ armor that enabled our characters to go toe to toe with Big Z, in the grand tradition of many a classic console game.
Dramatic presentation:
Pact Guys: Yay, the beam weakened him – but not enough!
Trahearne: Moving on.
Our Character: Get back here, T! Okay, Pact Guys, what else have you got?
Pact Guys: We have this Dragonbuster armor – it amplifies the wearer’s skills and magics (if applicable) while also bolstering toughness and vitality to near gawdly levels – but we’ve only had time to build the prototype! It’s not been tested!
Trahearne: This won’t end well.
Our Character: Shut up, T. Okay, guys. Enough is enough. I have had it with this kitten-juggling dragon in this kitten-juggling Orr. Strap that armor on me. I’m gonna wrangle me a dragon.
/e jump off ship onto dragon, attack weak spot, dodge, dodge, jump to another weak spot, attack, dodge, dodge, etc. – standard anet boss fight, basically, tough enough to spawn several dozen nerf Zhaitan threads but not so artificially drawn out that it becomes epically tedious rather than, ya know, epic.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled difficult content thread.
The table is a fable.
The fact is, if you’re afraid to develop new content because you may anger a small group that possibly doesn’t even exist in significant numbers (players who want hard content but only if it’s tied to exclusive rewards), then you have no business making video games.
It’s your assumption that it’s a small group. However, you have no data to support that assumption. It’s my contention that the small group could well be those who are willing to settle for somewhat better drops. The thing is, you want to use your lack of data to restrict the discussion and I don’t think that’s a good idea.
And it’s your assumption that it’s a significant group. However, you have no data to support that assumption. It’s my contention that the small/nonexistent group could well be those who will only run challenging content for exclusive rewards. The thing is, you want to use fear of a complete unknown quantity to restrict design choices and I don’t think that’s a good idea.
Actually every demographic study so far by multiple mmo developers have shown that the number of people who want harder raid like content with exclusive rewards is really just 1% of the population of their games in each and every study. It’s been done now 5 times by 5 game developers. I’d say that’s pretty good odds that these raiders are literally 1% of the overall gaming population in any title. When they come to these forums the few that do, they become even smaller of a percentage, so yes, I’d say listening to that tiny demographic for large overall game design choices would be suicide as we’ve seen by Wildstar, a game developed exclusively for this demographic. It’s been proven time and time again.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
I suspect the QQ will be from small and middle sized guilds, rather than casuals. Like when Guild Missions first came out.
That’s just describing casual guilds.
Ah, yeah, because obviously big zerg is more hardcore than a small group.
Big guilds aren’t necessarily hard core and small guilds aren’t necessarily casual. Small dungeon running guilds exist, where people just run dungeons as a team. They get really good because it’s the same handful of dedicated guys. Some small guilds run around WvW as havoc groups. They’re not big guilds but they’re definitely hard core about their gaming.
Some people just like to know and be friends with everyone in their guild.
By the same token, I wouldn’t call many of the big guilds I’ve seen hard core, since they take literally anyone.
The bigger your guild is – at least in GW2 – the more benefits you get from it. Influence alone makes a huge impact – but the more people you generally have the better its.
That’s why – my personal experience is that bigger guilds are more invested in the game because they attract players that want those benefits of a big guild.
My guild has 150 people in it and I don’t really think any of us are there for the “benefits”. But yes, many would be. It’s why we don’t recruit.
First off I’m not sure you can spot a player who wants in a big guild for the benefits so easily.
Second – you got my point – bigger guilds are all around better and a lot of players that roll with bigger guilds know this. Sure there are exceptions (I’m sure you feel your guild is – and it might just well be) but overall if you’re a player that wants stuff and shiny items and buffs – bigger guilds are the place to be.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Well yeah, I did feel that about Zhaitan because I think drama as in book and not boss fight as in game.
I spent ten levels fighting Zhaitan. Cutting off a lot of his power. The last bit was the final cut scene.[/quote]
Are you seriously defending the Zhaitan fight? SERIOUSLY!!!! If you think of drama as a book then maybe a text adventure game is more akin to your needs.
The Zhaitan fight was by far the worse and most terribly designed, anticlimactic ending to ANY game that I have ever played in 30+odd years.
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intel 335 180gb/intel 320 160gb WD 3TB Gigabyte GTX G1 970 XFX XXX750W HAF 932
intel 335 180gb/intel 320 160gb WD 3TB Gigabyte GTX G1 970 XFX XXX750W HAF 932
The Zhaitan fight is really awful. So are the long ship sequences. I actually liked the personal story, so it was sad to have such a non-fight with Zhaitan. I hope he’s not dead, because it would be nice to go in there with a party (or our pretend future raid groups) to finish the deed. The cannon beam damage would explain why a smallish group of heroes can go in and fight him. I’m not convinced….he just kind of falls.