Guild Wars 2

I think its funny how people say to sell your mats to make money. What they don’t get is that we need those mats for what we are trying to make. So how do you make money to buy mats if you can’t sell them? Sure for those that already have everything and don’t need anything their hoard of gold keeps growing. So for us that are still trying to craft things and not just save gold for gem store purchases WTF are we supposed to do? All of you making money off those mats are selling to all of us that need them for one thing or another or they wouldn’t be worth anything and they nerfed how to get those either directly through the salvage nerf or indirectly through all the gold nerfs. Which leaves your common person that is still trying to get things left with 2 choices, grind or buy gems with cash.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

I think I explained how it works but ok.

The gem exchange works by charging you more gold to get 800 gems than the amount of gold you get for exchanging 800 gems to gold.

Let’s take it a step further. Gems/gold conversion rates are determined by the people exchanging them we are led to believe. But we are not talking about an item on tp here that we can list for whatever price we like. Anet determines the cost of the conversion and here is why:

Gems are anets currency, they own it and they control gem supply. How? By creating gems when people buy them. They also exchange gems for gold. They pay less gold when buying gems back and ask for more gold when selling.

Why do they need to tax us for SPENDING the currency they want us to SPEND?

It’s not like I pay cash for 800 gems but only get 700 due to a tax to stop me making too much gold.

Ah Zing! There it is, if you pay cash you will always get same amount of gems for same amount of cash. It’s only when you don’t want to spend cash on gems does the system change.

You have a lot of reading to do if you don’t understand why a tax on both ways is of benefit to the players.

Here’s a hint: without that tax, some nifty traders would have a field day. You think the rage about the trading post was/is bad now. You really do not want to imagine this scenario. But sure, just keep looking at it from your subjective view and how YOU are affected. I’m sure balance on this basis is healthy.

As was pointed out, there is a ratio between both currency pools of gems and gold in the exchange. has arenanet told us the ration and calculations? No. True.

Should we believe that they are not affecting the ratio at their leisure? No.

Has the gem-gold exchange behaved in similar and expectable ways over 3 years time given all the information a player has access to? Yes.

So either arenanet are really really sneaky and manipulate in tiny fractions, or you know, the ratio has been constant.

Not pushing today apparently

Werdx.2059:

I had to log in just to put on place those “more gold than ever” people.

You can not earn more gold than before HoT,there is no possible way.You can earn less or maybe,but maybe same amount.Lots of materials dropped hard with prices,and you got only Pile of Silky Sand in HoT that is worth some gold.

Obviously,you do not have nothing else to say,and you are trying to to better than others with stupid sentences like i am getting more gold than ever.No you do not.

If someone tried every possible way of farming in game,over past 365 days,that’s me.After everything i did,i decide to stick with SW farm.In times pre HoT,i had 160 gold daily from SW.

Ectoplasm price dropped for couple silvers.You can notice change,after you sell 2000 ecto’s,not 5.

Price of every other material,you get from SW dropped couple silvers,some materials even 20-30 silver.

Bandit Bag,which you could buy with bandit crests,for 9 coper and 10 bandit crests each,got epic nerf.Before HoT,stack of those bags was 12 gold if you sell on TP,these days is 2-3 gold for stack.Why?Because they drop t6 materials,and materials got nerfed in price aswell.That there,is big big big ninja nerf,and you lost automatically 30 gold a day.

Yes, T6 prices tanked. Why would this be of consequence to your SW farm? Aren’t you opening your bandit chests on low level twinks for the lower tier crafting materials?

Shame, could be making so much more gold.

Congrats though, you know your stuff for SW farm, well most of it. 160 gold per day is of no value as infroamtion. If you gave us a timeframe maybe, but on it’s own this information has no value. Did you farm 3 hours for those 160 gold? Or 10 hours? I certainly could farm 160g in 10 hours post HoT if I wanted to. Wouldn’t be fun, but it;s doable.

Cyninja.2954:

Why would this be of consequence to your SW farm? Aren’t you opening your bandit chests on low level twinks for the lower tier crafting materials?

Shame, could be making so much more gold.

Not everyone has low-level twinks.

ITT: omfg i can’t make gold in the exact same way i could’ve done before. i can’t be doing anything wrong, ever. this game is obviously broken, better post on forums and whine about something that have been a part of gem market EVER SINCE THE FREAKING BETA and call the game p2w.
this is clearly an l2p issue.
btw, made 400g in 2days via exploiting the order/buyout price difference.

Mirtis.6847:

ITT: omfg i can’t make gold in the exact same way i could’ve done before. i can’t be doing anything wrong, ever. this game is obviously broken, better post on forums and whine about something that have been a part of gem market EVER SINCE THE FREAKING BETA and call the game p2w.
this is clearly an l2p issue.
btw, made 400g in 2days.

So troll, you said 200 gold then edited it to 400 gold.

Senario.2038:

Mirtis.6847:

ITT: omfg i can’t make gold in the exact same way i could’ve done before. i can’t be doing anything wrong, ever. this game is obviously broken, better post on forums and whine about something that have been a part of gem market EVER SINCE THE FREAKING BETA and call the game p2w.
this is clearly an l2p issue.
btw, made 400g in 2days.

So troll, you said 200 gold then edited it to 400 gold.

just had a “BUUURRRRRN” written at the end and thought i’d remove it to be less toxic.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I think its funny how people say to sell your mats to make money. What they don’t get is that we need those mats for what we are trying to make. So how do you make money to buy mats if you can’t sell them?

If you need the mats you acquire through gameplay, great! In that case they go directly onto your income statement without having to touch the trading post, saving both time and money from saved TP fees. There is also no reason to complain about a lack of ‘liquid’ gold in this case, since you are directly farming the materials you need. Wins all around!

The point, by the way, is that on average a player’s item income (value from drops) is going to be many times greater than their cash income (value from coin) – I’d guess around 8x as a rough estimate. If you don’t pay attention to that item income and don’t value it you’re going to think that your income is only ~10% of what is actually is (on average). Hitting raw gold faucets, in the long run, lowers item prices and raises real incomes – you just have to do some arithmetic to know what your income is now.

Senario.2038:

Mirtis.6847:

ITT: omfg i can’t make gold in the exact same way i could’ve done before. i can’t be doing anything wrong, ever. this game is obviously broken, better post on forums and whine about something that have been a part of gem market EVER SINCE THE FREAKING BETA and call the game p2w.
this is clearly an l2p issue.
btw, made 400g in 2days.

So troll, you said 200 gold then edited it to 400 gold.

The next time he edits it, it’ll be 600 g.

Ensign.2189:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I think its funny how people say to sell your mats to make money. What they don’t get is that we need those mats for what we are trying to make. So how do you make money to buy mats if you can’t sell them?

If you need the mats you acquire through gameplay, great! In that case they go directly onto your income statement without having to touch the trading post, saving both time and money from saved TP fees. There is also no reason to complain about a lack of ‘liquid’ gold in this case, since you are directly farming the materials you need. Wins all around!

The point, by the way, is that on average a player’s item income (value from drops) is going to be many times greater than their cash income (value from coin) – I’d guess around 8x as a rough estimate. If you don’t pay attention to that item income and don’t value it you’re going to think that your income is only ~10% of what is actually is (on average). Hitting raw gold faucets, in the long run, lowers item prices and raises real incomes – you just have to do some arithmetic to know what your income is now.

Yeah, that’s all for good intention, but to get those mats to decide to sell or keep in the first place, you need to be a mindless robot and grind them out. How is that fun?

Celtic Lady.3729:

Senario.2038:

Mirtis.6847:

ITT: omfg i can’t make gold in the exact same way i could’ve done before. i can’t be doing anything wrong, ever. this game is obviously broken, better post on forums and whine about something that have been a part of gem market EVER SINCE THE FREAKING BETA and call the game p2w.
this is clearly an l2p issue.
btw, made 400g in 2days.

So troll, you said 200 gold then edited it to 400 gold.

The next time he edits it, it’ll be 600 g.

even if i did do any of it, that’d be realistic based on how fast you can make gold by having more gold in this game =)

I honestly don’t think they care. They made enough money to fund their next 2 years or so. At this point they just want to see how hard they can push.

illuminati.8453:

I honestly don’t think they care. They made enough money to fund their next 2 years or so. At this point they just want to see how hard they can push.

Unfortunately with the other unpopular changes (aka less rewards) that have been pushed forward they are losing the goodwill of their consumers. Consumers who have no confidence in the game don’t buy gems.

To me it looks like they want to capitalize on the Whales who just buy an insane amount of gems with real money and keep afloat that way rather than putting the effort into making a game with better rewards that people would want to support.

Senario.2038:

illuminati.8453:

I honestly don’t think they care. They made enough money to fund their next 2 years or so. At this point they just want to see how hard they can push.

Unfortunately with the other unpopular changes (aka less rewards) that have been pushed forward they are losing the goodwill of their consumers. Consumers who have no confidence in the game don’t buy gems.

Worst: consumers that dont have confidence in the game/company/ branch dont buy or are less disposed to buy future products (not only gems, the next expansion or future games).

As i have stated in another thread before, this its like a text book demostration of Sales vs Marketing. At long term the effect will come.

I think I have read enough to be fair. As you point out the gem/gold exchange rate has been working the same for 3 years. So answer me this:

If it is working the same then Why do 800 gems cost 150g now, when a year and a half ago it was 64g for 800 gems?

That suggests that gems are more scarce now, than they were a year and a half ago. Did people stop buying gems? Did sales of gems drop by over 50%? I personally don’t think that for a minute.

And I know it was 64g per 800 gems, as I bought quite a few char slots back then and I’m bloody glad I did it back then :-)

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

I think I have read enough to be fair. As you point out the gem/gold exchange rate has been working the same for 3 years. So answer me this:

If it is working the same then Why do 800 gems cost 150g now, when a year and a half ago it was 64g for 800 gems?

That suggests that gems are more scarce now, than they were a year and a half ago. Did people stop buying gems? Did sales of gems drop by over 50%? I personally don’t think that for a minute.

And I know it was 64g per 800 gems, as I bought quite a few char slots back then and I’m bloody glad I did it back then :-)

Inflation, more gold in game more demand for gems using gold as the currency, meaning the price in gold for gems go higher.

Problem here its that shifting the rewards down to deflate or control the inflation of the economy (wich has an impact, specially in casual and ingame poor players) and at the same time press the gem to gold conversion rate with in game publicity isnt a good way to get or mantain an image, that beyond the final result (witch i dont like imo).

The process itself hurts the ones with less gold to resist the changes in the markets or proffit with them. They pushing the gem shop its like pouring salt in the wound lol.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

I think I have read enough to be fair. As you point out the gem/gold exchange rate has been working the same for 3 years. So answer me this:

If it is working the same then Why do 800 gems cost 150g now, when a year and a half ago it was 64g for 800 gems?

That suggests that gems are more scarce now, than they were a year and a half ago. Did people stop buying gems? Did sales of gems drop by over 50%? I personally don’t think that for a minute.

And I know it was 64g per 800 gems, as I bought quite a few char slots back then and I’m bloody glad I did it back then :-)

Yes. Gems are more scarce now inside of the gem/gold pool than they were a year and a half ago.

More people convert gold to buy gems from the pool (for example, dungeon runners who could get 30 gold a day didn’t need to buy gold and they could buy gems with that gold). If more people are pulling gems out of the pool than people are putting gems in, then gems in the pool get scarce and with scarcity, their price goes up.

More people now are vets with all of their gearing needs met. Now what they have is gold and they wish to buy cosmetics and gemstore conveniences. If they have the gold, what else are they going to buy with it? They don’t need to buy more gold if their ingame needs are met, but they could use gems.

Take me for example. I have level 80s geared now with a mix of exotics and ascended. What else now do I spend my gold on except cosmetics? I didn’t use to buy gems with my gold when I was gearing up, but now with nothing to spend it on buying gems once a month or so is a reasonable thing to do. Multiply all the people in the game like me, with max level chars and geared up, and see how many gems we all buy.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

That suggests that gems are more scarce now, than they were a year and a half ago.

No, actually it doesn’t. What it does suggest is that there is more gold available for trade now than a year and a half ago.

I know that I have an order of magnitude more gold now than a couple of years ago. I know others that have seen their stockpiles of gold increase to an even greater degree.

Well there was a downward shift in the exchange rate over the last week or so. Since the rate is set by the ratios of internal reservoirs of gold to gems which implies either less gold and/or more gems within the exchange. It has nothing to do with the amount of either gold or gems in player wallets. As a matter of fact, promoting buying gold with gems will lower the rate which makes it less and less attractive to buy gold and thus self defeating.

This is really about dungeon runners still outraged that their gold farm got nerfed. Nobody likes it when their cheese gets moved.

Ensign.2189:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I think its funny how people say to sell your mats to make money. What they don’t get is that we need those mats for what we are trying to make. So how do you make money to buy mats if you can’t sell them?

If you need the mats you acquire through gameplay, great! In that case they go directly onto your income statement without having to touch the trading post, saving both time and money from saved TP fees. There is also no reason to complain about a lack of ‘liquid’ gold in this case, since you are directly farming the materials you need. Wins all around!

The point, by the way, is that on average a player’s item income (value from drops) is going to be many times greater than their cash income (value from coin) – I’d guess around 8x as a rough estimate. If you don’t pay attention to that item income and don’t value it you’re going to think that your income is only ~10% of what is actually is (on average). Hitting raw gold faucets, in the long run, lowers item prices and raises real incomes – you just have to do some arithmetic to know what your income is now.

Well, there is “no reason to complain”, assuming the person only needs those mats, doesn’t mind taking a long time to gather all of them and doesn’t need (or want) any gold, for anything else.

Look, I know this is how MMOs work – when you’re new, you either have no gold at all, because everything you get you need (or want) to use yourself.

Or, you have no crafting progress, as everything you have gathered you sell for gold for other things.

Then, when you have been playing for longer, you find you have more and more stuff you don’t need, anymore; so, can sell more of it, to buy stuff you do still need/want.

Then, eventually, you need (or want) practically nothing; so, can sell all of it and just sit on your ever growing bank balance.

But, the problem is, that in non-sub games there is both less to get, by just playing the game and also more you are likely to want from the gemstore/TP.

So, you are inevitably stuck, for even longer, at the “Do I keep this and remain broke and basic-looking? Or do I sell it and remain lacking in crafting progress?” stage, for even longer.

…and of course, the temptation is always there to just skip all, or some, of that stage with a credit card.

In a sub game, you have the same problems, to an extent, but there is almost always something in-game to keep people going, without feeling the need to resort to reaching for a card.

There is lower level armour and weapons to farm; both to use, or for skins.

Pet battles (in the case of WoW) to do, to get a large number of companion pets.

You are not left, half so quickly, in this situation of not being able to get anything else, without large amounts of gold (and/or gems).

This game is OKish for a non-sub game, from that POV, when you first start playing; as there is a fair amount of lower level armour/weaps to collect.

But, due to the lack of higher level armour skins, weaps (and of course pets), that drop in-game, it fairly quickly becomes gemstore/TP/BL skins, or (virtually) nothing.

I totally see why they do it – they need to make money, somehow – but it does make the game a less interesting and fulfilling experience than it could otherwise be.

I know right? How dare a company try to actually make money off their product!

I demand anet become a nonprofit organization and reduce all their employees pay to minimum wage so they can make their product the way I want without me paying anything ever.

Inoki.6048:

I’ve been repeating this over and over again. Was about time people started waking up.

Ladies and gentlemen, meet NCSoft’s strategy behind all of their titles = cash machines.

Quite honestly, NCSoft is probably the most honorable game company in Asia.

Players unwilling to pay 10-15$ per month are the problem.

Instead of complaining, try thanking those players that spend money so you actually have a game to play.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

That suggests that gems are more scarce now, than they were a year and a half ago. Did people stop buying gems? Did sales of gems drop by over 50%? I personally don’t think that for a minute.

No, it suggests (to me, anyway) that people have more gold (on average) to buy gems with, so are doing it more often and therefore, causing the price of gems to rise.

I assume that is how it works – although, Anet may also have a hand in setting the prices, for all I know.

Behellagh.1468:

This is really about dungeon runners still outraged that their gold farm got nerfed. Nobody likes it when their cheese gets moved.

And rightfully so! Anet gutted the dungeon rewards to drive people out of them (by their own admission!). Only the fear of bad press probably kept them from deleting them entirely.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Behellagh.1468:

This is really about dungeon runners still outraged that their gold farm got nerfed. Nobody likes it when their cheese gets moved.

And rightfully so! Anet gutted the dungeon rewards to drive people out of them (by their own admission!). Only the fear of bad press probably kept them from deleting them entirely.

No. The dungeon specific currency/gear skins and the story/lore elements kept them from deleting it entirely.

And don’t give me that PvP BS about earning the currency there, that was added so dedicated PvPers wouldn’t have to sully themselves in the filthy PvE world to get the currency. Without dungeons, no need to have those reward tracks any longer.

Tigaseye.2047:

I totally see why they do it – they need to make money, somehow – but it does make the game a less interesting and fulfilling experience than it could otherwise be.

It’s not even about making money – they need to have rewards for players who have played the game for 10 hours, and rewards for players who have played 100 hours, and rewards for those who have played 1000 hours. That’s basic player engagement, and them making money from having an engaging game and not ‘lulz I can make someone buy more gold!’

What I’ll say about GW2 is that the 10 hour rewards don’t feel much like rewards, and the 100 hour rewards (roughly full exotics) being delivered by the TP feel less like rewards and more like a slow grind. So everyone ends up fixating on the thousand hour rewards (legendaries and other high price skins).

Except those are thousand hour rewards and people in the hundred hour category are fixated on them, and instead of looking at the hundred hour rewards they get mad at A.Net for holding the thousand hour rewards out of reach and promoting buying gold to get them faster.

Of course, third party gold sellers have always offered that service (with a side of account theft) so A.Net is cleaning that up by offering a legit service…but the real problem is that any rewards outside the biggest and baddest don’t feel much like accomplishments, so for most players it feels like the real rewards are perpetually out of reach without opening the wallet.

Ensign.2189:

Tigaseye.2047:

I totally see why they do it – they need to make money, somehow – but it does make the game a less interesting and fulfilling experience than it could otherwise be.

It’s not even about making money – they need to have rewards for players who have played the game for 10 hours, and rewards for players who have played 100 hours, and rewards for those who have played 1000 hours. That’s basic player engagement, and them making money from having an engaging game and not ‘lulz I can make someone buy more gold!’

What I’ll say about GW2 is that the 10 hour rewards don’t feel much like rewards, and the 100 hour rewards (roughly full exotics) being delivered by the TP feel less like rewards and more like a slow grind. So everyone ends up fixating on the thousand hour rewards (legendaries and other high price skins).

Except those are thousand hour rewards and people in the hundred hour category are fixated on them, and instead of looking at the hundred hour rewards they get mad at A.Net for holding the thousand hour rewards out of reach and promoting buying gold to get them faster.

Of course, third party gold sellers have always offered that service (with a side of account theft) so A.Net is cleaning that up by offering a legit service…but the real problem is that any rewards outside the biggest and baddest don’t feel much like accomplishments, so for most players it feels like the real rewards are perpetually out of reach without opening the wallet.

All true. Only the really long term stuff feels rewarding because the rest are so common.

Nick Lentz.6982:

really? does this not scream in everyone’s face about every nerf/grind this game has become? Or what direction anet is wanting it to go.. My heart, Its hanging on a thread.

I do love the new stuff, everything is beautiful. But even for me, its plan to see that sugar coating “making it harder, or nefing to fix our economy” Is really saying, We want you to buy our gems. Not make gold and buy our gems. hooray Korean Cash Cows!
This is really sad.

Although I don’t care for the direction Anet is taking with this game. I do not have any problem with them advertising the exchange. I rather like the fact that you can either buy gems with cash or trade gold earned in game to gems.

IndigoSundown.5419:

All true. Only the really long term stuff feels rewarding because the rest are so common.

That’s because everything isn’t shiny and new anymore. When you level your first character you actually got excited with blue and greens but once you’re 80, once you had your first set of exotic, suddenly nearly everything is “junk” that you convert to gold.

Now instead of gear from drops, your or other players available on the TP, it’s about working toward that gear that may be locked behind time gates or scavenger hunts or supply squeezes that shoot up the cost. Which is a problem when you don’t bump the level cap because it’s easier to simply add 10 levels you have to grind through to get those gear drops. But it’s still “grind”. Our grind is crafting and milking events that drop particular materials.

Mahou.3924:

Sizer.3987:

I know right? How dare a company try to actually make money off their product!

I demand anet become a nonprofit organization and reduce all their employees pay to minimum wage so they can make their product the way I want without me paying anything ever.

Get a clue about what the thread is instead of repeating the same flamebatey nonsense like a parrot, scrub.

Really because the same can be said by those parroting the “ANet nerfed dungeons to force players to buy gold with cash” meme.

I wouldn’t mind it that much if they put new skins achievable via actually playing the freaking game on regular basis, not once in 6 months. And by playing the game I don’t mean Silverwastes-esque grind. They have the collections system so how about they use it. Freaking SWTOR has much better game shop system than GW2, because you can actually earn your currency by playing the game.

laokoko.7403:

Quite honestly, NCSoft is probably the most honorable game company in Asia.

Players unwilling to pay 10-15$ per month are the problem.

Instead of complaining, try thanking those players that spend money so you actually have a game to play.

Lol, whatever. Even if they are the most honorable in Asia, that says nothing for how honorable they are in America and Europe compared to others. I’ve seen game companies that cling to integrity and I’ve seen game companies that try to grift you at every turn. Anet is somewhere in the middle right now. I can’t speak for NCSoft as a whole, as I don’t follow most of their titles.

That said, advertising gems to gold on the Gem tab is not unreasonable in itself. It seems it is just the straw that broke the camel’s back for the OP.

The same uproar happened like 18 months ago when it was mentioned in Evon’s weekly blog post about the TP.

Labjax.2465:

I can’t speak for NCSoft as a whole, as I don’t follow most of their titles.

Right off the bat, Anet != NCSoft. Anet is a subsidiary. They are their own people.

Labjax.2465:

I’ve seen game companies that cling to integrity and I’ve seen game companies that try to grift you at every turn. Anet is somewhere in the middle right now.

This you say as they’re giving away free gem shop items right now.

Not to mention the entirety of season 1 and 2, every major update and systems change from then till’ now (WoW would have made maybe three expansions from it), dozens of holidays and special events, new wvw and pvp maps (of which you can play without HoT)…

Yeah. Real greedy folks. Really “grifting” you at every chance they can get. /s

CETheLucid.3964:

Labjax.2465:

I can’t speak for NCSoft as a whole, as I don’t follow most of their titles.

Right off the bat, Anet != NCSoft. Anet is a subsidiary. They are their own people.

Labjax.2465:

I’ve seen game companies that cling to integrity and I’ve seen game companies that try to grift you at every turn. Anet is somewhere in the middle right now.

This you say as they’re giving away free gem shop items right now.

Not to mention the entirety of season 1 and 2, every major update and systems change from then till’ now (WoW would have made maybe three expansions from it), dozens of holidays and special events, new wvw and pvp maps (of which you can play without HoT)…

Yeah. Real greedy folks. Really “grifting” you at every chance they can get. /s

Maybe you better go back and reread what I said.

Labjax.2465:

CETheLucid.3964:

Labjax.2465:

I can’t speak for NCSoft as a whole, as I don’t follow most of their titles.

Right off the bat, Anet != NCSoft. Anet is a subsidiary. They are their own people.

Labjax.2465:

I’ve seen game companies that cling to integrity and I’ve seen game companies that try to grift you at every turn. Anet is somewhere in the middle right now.

This you say as they’re giving away free gem shop items right now.

Not to mention the entirety of season 1 and 2, every major update and systems change from then till’ now (WoW would have made maybe three expansions from it), dozens of holidays and special events, new wvw and pvp maps (of which you can play without HoT)…

Yeah. Real greedy folks. Really “grifting” you at every chance they can get. /s

Maybe you better go back and reread what I said.

You don’t put any names to your examples. One wonders what lofty paragons of integrity your basis for comparison lies in.

Who are you comparing to that Anet is in the middle of with regards to people who have maintained their integrity VS companies who are trying to grift you at every turn?

These forums get so dramatic over such little things, lol.

CETheLucid.3964:

You don’t put any names to your examples. One wonders what lofty paragons of integrity your basis for comparison lies in.

Who are you comparing to that Anet is in the middle of with regards to people who have maintained their integrity VS companies who are trying to grift you at every turn?

I generally don’t shout praises of other MMOs by name on the GW2 forums, out of respect for it being their platform and all. So sorry, I’m not going to be giving detailed examples from other games. I guess if you really want to hear what I have to say on it and aren’t just blowing defensive air in my direction, then you can PM me.

The general gist is, some things are designed such that money is a priority and spending is encouraged, but not required. The darker side is the stuff that is designed such that human psychology is taken advantage of and manipulated to eke out as much profit as possible. This game has some of both.

Psychological manipulation, due to manipulation being something people aren’t supposed to notice, is generally not going to be obvious to the average person at first glance. So if you’re working from a casual overview, you won’t necessarily see it. It’s also not a black and white thing. Some psychological manipulation is used to help people have a better experience. For instance, graphic design could, in some respects, be categorized under psychological manipulation – you’re using known information about where the eyes goes to direct peoples’ attention where you want it.

But you can also do things like draw people in and then once you have your hooks in, you hit them with the price tag. This is the main theme of F2P marketing and micro transactions in general. It’s why P2W games are so hated… cause they literally draw you in with the allure of a free game and then once you’re invested in the game, you get hit with a metric ton of micro transactions that you need to make to get anywhere.

GW2 is obviously not like that. If it was, I wouldn’t be having this conversation. I would be far far away. But it’s hard to deny some of the subtle hooks in place. For instance, you can invest a huge amount of time into the game to get a legendary weapon (the pinnacle of prestige in the game), or you can buy gems with RL money and convert them to gold to help you along. People say this is ok because it’s optional and that’s partly true; they aren’t making you pay RL money to get the highest prestige item. But the pull and allure of it is undeniable.

Giving free stuff every now and then in the gem store is cool and all, but it’s not necessarily a shining beacon of integrity. Grocery stores do the same; they give you samples. Although it can be well-intentioned, there is no reason to believe that it is by default. Giving a sample can be a good way to whet the appetite of people who haven’t participated in the store experience yet. It shows them, “This is the kind of stuff you could be getting from here all the time.”

Anyway, I will cut it here for now. I could probably go on at length on this subject.

Labjax.2465:

CETheLucid.3964:

You don’t put any names to your examples. One wonders what lofty paragons of integrity your basis for comparison lies in.

Who are you comparing to that Anet is in the middle of with regards to people who have maintained their integrity VS companies who are trying to grift you at every turn?

I generally don’t shout praises of other MMOs by name on the GW2 forums, out of respect for it being their platform and all. So sorry, I’m not going to be giving detailed examples from other games.

Are you serious with that?

You make a vague comparison based on these unnamed paragons of MMO integrity, but you’re just so gosh darn respectful that you loathe to name names.

Because that’s totally fair and not at all contradictory to what you’ve stated in making the comparison in the first place.

According to these unnameable paper angels, GW2 is mediocre (or in the middle) in regards to integrity VS grifting fiends.

Got it.

Yeah. That doesn’t pass muster. But I’m not reading through the rest of that wall of text to see if you make it make sense.

When your first paragraph is flawed in reasoning, I’m not inclined to read the remaining 13.

Anet making an advert like this in games means only 1 thing, the company is doing bad.

And I don’t find it very strange, the expac only gave 4 maps of which 1 kicks you out at the boss every single time, no gliding all around Tyria cause they want to limit you to those 4 kitten maps, only 2 new armor skins + guild armor, unfinished content at release… well ye, can keep going on but rly, they did this to themselves, hence the gem advert.

Anet may be free to play but they are still in a buisness and thats to make money 1.they have to fund the game 2.these guys are working and payroll doesnt fill it self im sure they want to eat and survive.3.Ive yet to be forced to pay for anything most stuff in the dang gem shop is cosmetic or just convienence items.Not that hard to gind some gems.

yeah they do have hooks ever go to a store they put the side stacks in the middle of aisles for what we who work in retail like to call for compulsive buyers it is a practice to get that extra buck gem store is no diffrent they toss stuff in the promotion windows to try and get you to buy it compulsivly. Its retail still in game or not.

Vephar.8475:

sephiroth.4217:

Vephar.8475:

LimitBreaker.4165:

Vephar.8475:

I make 200g in about 3-4 days. It’s way easier to make gold now than it has ever been.

Teach meh?

Silverwastes! Seriously, not even chest farming, just doing the events gets me that much gold. You can get even more though with chest farming. I would make 100g a day sometimes chest farming. What I do is salvage EVERYTHING, I mean everything that is below 1g. Sell items 1g or more on the TP. After salvaging everything, you’ll end up with valuable mats like silk, linen, ores and other expensive mats. You sell those all.

Can I ask… How many hours are involved in a days play for you?

Could I make this 100g a day from 2 hours or will I need to invest 8+ hours?

I make about 50g in 2 hours so for 100g it would be 4 hours, with chest farming.
Just doing the events though I make about 30g every 2 hours.

Please,do not lie.I am doing SW at least 8 hours each day.By your calculation,i should get 200 gold in 8 hours,yet i am nowhere close to your numbers.Sure you can get that amount,if you get 5 rares/exotics in every chest/bag and 3x ectos from one item.

Player IM MAXI,doing 16 hours chest farms every day,and even he told me that he cant get more than 160-180 gold by doing Chest Farm for 16 hours,but not only he,every member from his guild is getting around 160 gold after 16 hours of doing CF.They have CF focused guild,and they are pretty fast.I heard,he is best at what he does.

If you get 50 gold every 2 hours,by doing CF that means you dig 600 chests in 2 hours(which is not possible)Because 100 chests is around 7-10 gold.

I kill champ i get one bag

You kill same champ you get 5 bags,even if he drops only one,it is possible,because that’s you.

Werdx.2059,feel free to add me in game.Ill spent 2 hours with you doing CF.If i get 50 gold in 2 hours,i will give you Ghastly Grinning Shield Skin as a gift + all gold i get in 2 hours.If you lose,and you will,you do not owe me nothing.Its going to be one less liar,who lie to players who ask for advice and help.I am sure next time,you will think twice,before you decide to lie to someone or to promote false guides.

Mirtis.6847:

ITT: omfg i can’t make gold in the exact same way i could’ve done before. i can’t be doing anything wrong, ever. this game is obviously broken, better post on forums and whine about something that have been a part of gem market EVER SINCE THE FREAKING BETA and call the game p2w.
this is clearly an l2p issue.
btw, made 400g in 2days via exploiting the order/buyout price difference.

Little one,as smart person said once’ why so serious?You really need someone to hug you warmly,because obviously,you need some attention.My suggestion is,cuddle yourself.

Ensign.2189:

Tigaseye.2047:

I totally see why they do it – they need to make money, somehow – but it does make the game a less interesting and fulfilling experience than it could otherwise be.

It’s not even about making money – they need to have rewards for players who have played the game for 10 hours, and rewards for players who have played 100 hours, and rewards for those who have played 1000 hours. That’s basic player engagement, and them making money from having an engaging game and not ‘lulz I can make someone buy more gold!’

What I’ll say about GW2 is that the 10 hour rewards don’t feel much like rewards, and the 100 hour rewards (roughly full exotics) being delivered by the TP feel less like rewards and more like a slow grind. So everyone ends up fixating on the thousand hour rewards (legendaries and other high price skins).

Except those are thousand hour rewards and people in the hundred hour category are fixated on them, and instead of looking at the hundred hour rewards they get mad at A.Net for holding the thousand hour rewards out of reach and promoting buying gold to get them faster.

Of course, third party gold sellers have always offered that service (with a side of account theft) so A.Net is cleaning that up by offering a legit service…but the real problem is that any rewards outside the biggest and baddest don’t feel much like accomplishments, so for most players it feels like the real rewards are perpetually out of reach without opening the wallet.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

It does feel as though all the, meaningful, objectives are at the end of the endgame.

…and that most of them are about saving and/or buying gold.

In a way, that is a good thing, in theory, as it means you can (again, in theory) play the part(s) of the game you most enjoy, gradually accumulating gold along the way and then, eventually, exchange it for a legendary (or some of the stuff needed to make one).

But, the problem (aside from the fact you could just buy it on a card, on day one!) is that the amount of gold you can get, from various things, varies too widely to seem in any way equal.

…and the other problem is that it is just less engaging to never (or very rarely) have anything really interesting drop, from actually playing.

Not that pure RNG is a perfect system, either, but you know what I mean.

CETheLucid.3964:

Are you serious with that?

You make a vague comparison based on these unnamed paragons of MMO integrity, but you’re just so gosh darn respectful that you loathe to name names.

Because that’s totally fair and not at all contradictory to what you’ve stated in making the comparison in the first place.

According to these unnameable paper angels, GW2 is mediocre (or in the middle) in regards to integrity VS grifting fiends.

Got it.

Yeah. That doesn’t pass muster. But I’m not reading through the rest of that wall of text to see if you make it make sense.

When your first paragraph is flawed in reasoning, I’m not inclined to read the remaining 13.

LOL, ok. You are cute. You ask for an explanation and because I don’t give you all of what you want in my first paragraph, you dismiss my whole post.

You are so transparent man. It’s obvious you don’t want to face down any real arguments against the game. You are just looking for ways to get out of it with dismissive statements.

I get it tho. Sometimes people don’t want what they like to get tarnished by arguments against it. Just next time save me the trouble of writing out what I did and tell me off the bat that you’re afraid to talk about the flaws your precious game might have.

Labjax.2465:

CETheLucid.3964:

Are you serious with that?

You make a vague comparison based on these unnamed paragons of MMO integrity, but you’re just so gosh darn respectful that you loathe to name names.

Because that’s totally fair and not at all contradictory to what you’ve stated in making the comparison in the first place.

According to these unnameable paper angels, GW2 is mediocre (or in the middle) in regards to integrity VS grifting fiends.

Got it.

Yeah. That doesn’t pass muster. But I’m not reading through the rest of that wall of text to see if you make it make sense.

When your first paragraph is flawed in reasoning, I’m not inclined to read the remaining 13.

LOL, ok. You are cute. You ask for an explanation and because I don’t give you all of what you want in my first paragraph, you dismiss my whole post.

You are so transparent man. It’s obvious you don’t want to face down any real arguments against the game. You are just looking for ways to get out of it with dismissive statements.

I get it tho. Sometimes people don’t want what they like to get tarnished by arguments against it. Just next time save me the trouble of writing out what I did and tell me off the bat that you’re afraid to talk about the flaws your precious game might have.

I’m not worried about you giving me an explanation in your first paragraph. I’m a reasonably patient person.

I’m very much worried that you’re inconsistent and outright dodging the discussion in your first paragraph and you have 13 more paragraphs after the fact.

That’s not a discussion. That’s a rant.

You’re one to talk about avoiding the argument when you’re trying to take the moral high ground as a means to avoid an actual discussion with regards to what you said.

You flat out said you will not name names. Paragraph one. Ergo, we can’t have a discussion.

Your unnamed paper angels of MMO integrity are the bestestestest ones and GW2 ranks below them.

Interesting idea of a ‘discussion’ you have there.

CETheLucid.3964:

I’m not worried about you giving me an explanation in your first paragraph. I’m a reasonably patient person.

I’m very much worried that you’re inconsistent and outright dodging the discussion in your first paragraph and you have 13 more paragraphs after the fact.

That’s not a discussion. That’s a rant.

You’re one to talk about avoiding the argument when you’re trying to take the moral high ground as a means to avoid an actual discussion with regards to what you said.

You flat out said you will not name names. Paragraph one. Ergo, we can’t have a discussion.

Your unnamed paper angels of MMO integrity are the bestestestest ones and GW2 ranks below them.

Interesting idea of a ‘discussion’ you have there.

In the time it took you to write this and your other reply, you could have read the rest of what I said. Apparently you didn’t.

I don’t think there are words in the english language. That do justice. To how nonsensical your position is right now. You are insisting that I’m dodging when you admitted that you avoided reading 90% of what I wrote.

I even told you if you wanted names, you could PM me. But you conveniently cut that part out of your quote to make it look like I’m dodging.

Good god man. All this effort to try to dismiss me without addressing the content of what I’ve said. I recommend you log out of the forums and enjoy the game, because you clearly aren’t interested in talking about it critically.

forum. page. bug. ugh.