Too much work for temporary content.
The Super Adventure Box will return.
Not enough content? People complain. Too much content? People complain.
I’m not complaining about either, I just feel it is strange they would work so hard on something that would soon be gone.
So do chefs. You go out have a great meal and that’s that. The book you read in a week might have taken the author ten years to write. Most books won’t get read again and again and again.
I don’t know about you but I’m bored with most of the permanent dungeons in the game anyway. I do them with guildies, but after all this time if I never did one of the original dungeons again, I wouldn’t be too sad.
Maybe temporary content isn’t so bad as people might think.
Well you can’t compare an mmo to food cooked by a chef.
this is more like a house…Anet is building house by making a huge room and then taking it down to replace it with another room that will also be taken down.I don’t really see it that way at all. Anet is decorating a room, and you spend some time in that room and then they’re redecorating.
Content that keeps getting played eventually become stale is my point. By bringing out stuff and bringing out different stuff, they’re doing something most games don’t do. I think that if they can keep doing it (better than they’ve done it so far), then it might be an interesting formula.
At very least, it’s an experiment in the genre.
The problem is the game is far from a good state where they have the luxury of temporary content. Going with the room analogy they are redecorating the room but there are still nails coming out of the drywall, holes in the walls, carpet has stains, etc. The new decorations take your eyes of those imperfections for a second but very quickly you end up asking yourself “why would you spend money decorating the room instead of fixing it first?”
I am absolutely fine with temporary content as long as the game is in a good place, GW2 isn’t. Class balance is an absolute travesty and probably the worst among any AAA mmo that has ever released. The combat is shallow and stale. SPvP is in a dire state and will probably never be an eSport like ANet wanted. WvW needs some serious reworking. I could go on. The basic game systems need serious attention, not more temporary content. What makes it even worse is that almost every additional game mechanic they’ve added have had massive issues/design flaws, it does not give one hope that when they finally do rework base systems that they will get it right.
I could dig up this quote on any MMO forum to date if I had the time.
Well you can’t compare an mmo to food cooked by a chef.
Why not?
Because it’s like comparing a carrot to an airplane.
Insufficient answer. A chef creates a meal as an art to be savored, tasted, and finished. Over and done.
Why can’t they be content chefs creating a meal to be savored, tasted, and finished?
I do not see (yet) any reasonable explanation of why it’s different. I see an arbitrary statement because.
The analogy, it burns!!!
You order something from a restaurant, you like it, they decide to quit serving it, but you want more because you really like it.
Another restaurant has seen how popular that dish was, they decide to serve it everyday, to everyone that comes in who wants it.
Which restaurant flourishes, which one dies?
Temporary can make events (or foods) special and memorable, and there is certainly space for it and customers who want them. What happens when you get the craving for that special ice cream, hamburger, shrimp scampi and no one is there to serve it? Does a customer in today’s marketplace just say “Oh well” and go without? No, because there are retailers who will fulfill that need or wish.
A focus on a more permanent content isn’t a bad thing and can seriously help a business in a long run. Temporary content helps to fill certain needs or shortfalls in a strategy, but shouldn’t be a strategy in and of itself. Has GW2 been focusing on short term goals, or a long term strategy? Holiday events are both short term and long term, but are still temporary. The Living Story idea is long term, but the content itself is short term and temporary. These short term events and holidays are made to draw in customers, similar to a special on crab legs or braised short ribs if you want to continue the food analogy. We have seen quite a few Daily Specials in GW2’s short lifetime.
Permanence and reliability breed customer retention.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
Anet has always rolled out annual content. While this content is part of the game, it certainly isn’t the game itself. Sorry Killcannon, but I think a reasonable person would understand the difference between seasonal content and the game’s core content. I believe that it is the unreasonable people, the kind of people that would say what you quoted that do more harm than anything to these games. Being online games, the gaming community is part of what makes the game. It doesn’t matter how good the game is, if the community is garbage, the game takes a big hit because of it.
EVE is a fine example of this. The sand box game is great. It offers a ton of freedom. The community is the worst I’ve ever seen. Egocentric, egotistical, arrogant, selfish, and spiteful. The worst of the worst when it comes to griefing.
Anet is trying to do something new. They are trying to play the role of “dungeon master” with a video game and have the story (and thus the game world itself) constantly move forward. ‘Right place, right time’ is a spice of life and is something that can add spice to a game.
Every player wants to make their mark and/or have their character stand out and/or be above the rest. In order for that to work, not every will be able to. On a few will be able to. This is what compounds the issue with elitism. It’s what turns the impressionable new players (new to gaming in general) into the majority of what can be found in EVE.
‘Right place, right time’ is a two way street. By having your character experience events that only you and a dozen or so others have, and ever will, experience, you get that feeling of uniqueness. Especially if you have something visual to show for it. However, since it involves being in the right place at the right time, you will not experience everything and other people will have things to show for it that you won’t.
Right now, the biggest thing is RNG. Low proc rates that a minority seems to get lucky on while the rest gets nothing but the same thing that everyone else can get, even those that got lucky.
It’s one thing to get something for being extra clever and figuring something out or being quite skillfull at a particular meta game or happening to be at the right place at the right time (especially if everyone at some point or another gets a kick at the cat) but it’s another to simply be lucky.
The worst is when it’s not just vanity items that are awarded to the lucky but things that actually effect performance and what not. Like the highest stat gear being depended on pure RNG to get. New MMO’s focus should be to eliminate such a thing. It only creates a poisonous attitude in both the person who gets lucky (they become a bit egotistical as a minimum) and the people who don’t (they become bitter and resentful).
Edit: Wanted to say something about the post above mine. There are restaurants that change their menus daily. In fact, some of the most prestigious, fanciest, most expensive, and successful restaurants do it.
(edited by Deamhan.9538)
The Mad King will return.
The Karka suffered quite badly from a lack of effort in both planning and execution.
Wintersday was fairly limited in scope, compared to Halloween, and will probably repeat.
And 95% of the living story could be done by a basement dwelling dropout, since it’s all just text, scripting extremely simple event spawns, placing static items and npcs, setting npc pathing, and modeling, what, 12 generic and hero character models.
The only part of the “living” story that’s shown any effort were the instances, with voice acting, level design, and suchlike.
So personally I don’t think it’s ‘too much work’, as long as it’s really only the small percentage of Anet working on this stuff that it appears to be. And, as I’ve said, the events that involved effort are reusable at some level.
I agree with the OP title but not so much with where the OP takes it. Any game as sociologically rich as an MMO is going to follow a liturgical calendar of some kind. The content is holiday themed and not so much temporary as cyclical. I have no problem with this.
Where I think Anet goes wrong is with the “monthly” content delivery. You don’t have to read long in their marketing literature to know that this is a huge factor for them in the creation of a value proposition around GW2. Hey look, you are getting an expansion’s worth of content over a couple months.
Being a software developer, I tend to see the monthly delivery schedule for significant content as more a detriment than anything associated with value. The “events” generally don’t work in some significant way and it’s not surprising as there is barely time to conceive and code, let alone test anything in a month. We’ve also seen the inability to deliver on schedule with the Living Story. We got teasers because there were not enough developers to go around. It’s funny as here, with the SAB, it would be one temporary project trumping another temporary project for developer resources.
Meanwhile, basic problems in the game go unattended. I don’t need to list them here as it would just derail the thread. Read the forums. Play the game.
I don’t see it so much as temporary vs permanent as simply priorities that are askew tied to a development cycle that is too short.
I understand what seasonal content is very well, and I addressed it in my post. I didn’t go on about how I felt left out by another game though.
How many people eat at those restaurants? How many people do you want to play this game? Can you name one of those restaurants? How many of the not so fancy, not so concierge restaurants can you name instead? What is the measure of success for this game? That only the few privileged individuals get to experience all the best content? Or should everyone get a chance to experience all the best content?
Anet also released permanent content for GW1, and lots of it. More than any temporary content. Can you say the same thing so far with GW2 given current trends?
Temporary content breeds elitism, be it from temporary skins I can sell on the TP to people who didn’t get a chance to run certain content, to Achievement Points that some will use to gauge your commitment to the game or your skill (some guilds are already using this as a base to kick people).
Didn’t get a chance to run the Karka event and get your precursor? Too bad for you. Didn’t get a chance to run christmas event and get your special snowflakes? Too bad for you certain parts of the game are now locked out. Didn’t get a chance to run Halloween content and get your candy corn, candy bars, plastic teeth, etc etc etc, Too bad for you certain parts of the game are locked out. I’m not saying it’s bad to have holiday content, but it’s a poor choice to ONLY have holiday, time based, temporary content.This content centers around cosmetics to an extent, and horizontal progression can create as much elitism in a game as vertical content. Check the forums for the umpteen million posts about “unfair” precursors and legendaries.
None of this temporary content is bad, just like I stated. It’s made to draw in new customers. But while we have had a tremendous amount of this temporary content, we have not had as much permanent content. And permanent content retains customers.
The restaurants you mention that are high scale base their business on a few things they do very well, not on a specials sheet.
Do me a favor. Make a list of all the temporary content, and then another list of permanent content that has been introduced to the game. Which list is larger, has more meat to it? And that answers where the focus has been for GW2.
Part of this is because they don’t care as much about “churn” in this game, or player turnover. In a sub based game you want to have less churn, but with a B2P model it’s not as important. You get most of your cash from box sales and impulse buys from the Gemstore. Every new person they bring in is more important than retaining people who have already bought the game, it’s an idea leftover from their GW1 days I assume. Player retention won’t hurt them until a new MMO comes out that does what this game can do, only better.
(edited by killcannon.2576)
I wish they would just keep some of the temporary content in the game like the halloween and wintersday pvp events. I do not see what harm it would do keeping fun content in other then a few people would say they were bored of them.
You’re making a pretty big set of assumptions there. First may be the scope of work. From what i understood of the things they talked about, they actually designed the game around being able to add and remove content fairly painlessly. Second is, and this one is pretty likely, are you certain that the work they did won’t be used in future temporary content. Perhaps a script that took a team to write over the course of the cycle can be easily modified to fit a different scenario? Seems to me the work they do is hardly as in vein as you make it sound.
[TAO] Founder/Owner and Administrator for the NSP Server Website
You’re making a pretty big set of assumptions there. First may be the scope of work. From what i understood of the things they talked about, they actually designed the game around being able to add and remove content fairly painlessly. Second is, and this one is pretty likely, are you certain that the work they did won’t be used in future temporary content. Perhaps a script that took a team to write over the course of the cycle can be easily modified to fit a different scenario? Seems to me the work they do is hardly as in vein as you make it sound.
I’m sure they will use it again. But I would like to draw your attention to something you stated “Future temporary content”. My question is: Why make temporary content at all unless it’s based off of a holiday, especially when it’s done right like so much of the temp content is? No one can argue (much) that the additions to spvp, crafting, events, dungeons from the temporary content wasn’t fun or well designed. Where is the reason to remove these very fun additions to the game? Will this be a better game due to a lack of content? Both types of content are good, for different reasons. And they should indeed have both, to make people feel special sometimes that they got to take part in certain events, and to increase the size of the world and immersion overall.
I enjoy the temp content. But to me the permanent content is what really makes a game and makes me want to keep coming back. It’s just my opinion, and others have theirs. I just hope that everyone gets what they want to an extent, and GW2 continues to do well and we see more of both.
This has been their style since GW1.
Not.
In GW1 they only had the classic holyday-based patches just like every single MMO out there.Huh? They had holiday based mini-games. You speak as if I have never played the game… lol. FYI, I’ve played every expansion other than Eye of the North. Every other MMO out there does not do mini-games. They just redecorate everything so it fits the theme and maybe add a couple drops here and there like a Santa hat.
Disagree.. many MMO’s have mini games and seasonal games alongside I them… my personal favourites are the Ice Games – ice skate, ski jump seasonal games in DDO … came in as part of the 2010 Winter Olympics and has been coming back ever since around Christmas. Also the Pirates Cove and Graveyard Halloween events.
Many MMO’s introduce small scale content.. its not only a game freshner to pull players in/back but its also a way to test out new mechanics “DDO tested out crafting/drop box recipe crafting mechanics with such content”.
They also (from the Pirates Cove success" implements a whole game zone in Cannith dedicated to at least a dozen mini game quests, which in turn have opened up other new mechanics, crafting items etc.. – - This is just one example of A N OTHER MMO using mini games inside its core content.
Added to all that – all content big or small is its own marketing tool which helps bring in much needed revenue boosts for games like GW2, its also opens the door for special / exclusive store purchases.
So please don’t bleat that its something only Guild Wars does, you clearly have limited experience outside GW if you think that’s true.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
They spoken on this before, much of this is to give the feeling of a living/changing world. I’m pretty happy with it. I’m enjoying the fact that adventure box will return down the road with new worlds and possibly some other twists. I’d take that over permanent content that i’ve done 100 times.
[TAO] Founder/Owner and Administrator for the NSP Server Website
You’re making a pretty big set of assumptions there. First may be the scope of work. From what i understood of the things they talked about, they actually designed the game around being able to add and remove content fairly painlessly. Second is, and this one is pretty likely, are you certain that the work they did won’t be used in future temporary content. Perhaps a script that took a team to write over the course of the cycle can be easily modified to fit a different scenario? Seems to me the work they do is hardly as in vein as you make it sound.
They need to keep adding to the core of the games content not temporary kitten.
look at runescape they have been slowly building up more and more content over the years that a max level player will literally never run out of stuff to do, this is what gw2 should be doing right now expanding on all areas of the game and keep building them up. temporary content so early in a game were some people are already getting bored and leaving is probably the first or second nail in the coffin, they still have a lot of time to repair the situation but it will run out soon.
Temporary content = The killer of GuildWars 2 they need to cut this kitten out.
The problem is the game is far from a good state where they have the luxury of temporary content.
..
I am absolutely fine with temporary content as long as the game is in a good place, GW2 isn’t.Class balance is an absolute travesty and probably the worst among any AAA mmo that has ever released.
The combat is shallow and stale.
SPvP is in a dire state and will probably never be an eSport like ANet wanted.
WvW needs some serious reworking. I could go on.
The basic game systems need serious attention, not more temporary content. What makes it even worse is that almost every additional game mechanic they’ve added have had massive issues/design flaws, it does not give one hope that when they finally do rework base systems that they will get it right.
Just had to QFT this great post, as it so perfectly sums up the core problem with all this fluff.
Do I have to remind the unwashed masses, that the reason Ascalon isn´t the easy-peasy cash cow anymore, but now has some pretty interesting Dungeon & Boss mechanics, is because of ONE DEV ( with some minor help? ) and his countless personal working hours ?
I don´t even want to imagine what he could´ve done to the complete Dungeon content by now , with even half of the teams working on all those frikken jumping puzzles for this weird (American only btw) Halloween obsession and the other Christian Holidays Specials.
Polish > hype
(edited by HawkMeister.4758)
I agree. It’s one thing if some of this stuff comes back around on a yearly basis, but given how much work needs to be done on so many zones in the game, (ideally, you should not have to limit your playable zone list based on availability and density of events), I just don’t get why so much time is wasted on apparently one-off stuff.
Not enough content? People complain. Too much content? People complain.
I’m not complaining about either, I just feel it is strange they would work so hard on something that would soon be gone.
So do chefs. You go out have a great meal and that’s that. The book you read in a week might have taken the author ten years to write. Most books won’t get read again and again and again.
I don’t know about you but I’m bored with most of the permanent dungeons in the game anyway. I do them with guildies, but after all this time if I never did one of the original dungeons again, I wouldn’t be too sad.
Maybe temporary content isn’t so bad as people might think.
Well you can’t compare an mmo to food cooked by a chef.
this is more like a house…Anet is building house by making a huge room and then taking it down to replace it with another room that will also be taken down.I don’t really see it that way at all. Anet is decorating a room, and you spend some time in that room and then they’re redecorating.
Content that keeps getting played eventually become stale is my point. By bringing out stuff and bringing out different stuff, they’re doing something most games don’t do. I think that if they can keep doing it (better than they’ve done it so far), then it might be an interesting formula.
At very least, it’s an experiment in the genre.
The problem is the game is far from a good state where they have the luxury of temporary content. Going with the room analogy they are redecorating the room but there are still nails coming out of the drywall, holes in the walls, carpet has stains, etc. The new decorations take your eyes of those imperfections for a second but very quickly you end up asking yourself “why would you spend money decorating the room instead of fixing it first?”
I am absolutely fine with temporary content as long as the game is in a good place, GW2 isn’t. Class balance is an absolute travesty and probably the worst among any AAA mmo that has ever released. The combat is shallow and stale. SPvP is in a dire state and will probably never be an eSport like ANet wanted. WvW needs some serious reworking. I could go on. The basic game systems need serious attention, not more temporary content. What makes it even worse is that almost every additional game mechanic they’ve added have had massive issues/design flaws, it does not give one hope that when they finally do rework base systems that they will get it right.
This very adequately describes the issue. And it isn’t just the bugs, balance, etc., it’s also the fact that there isn’t really a sufficient amount of permanent content in the game yet to justify so much work on temporary content.
Temporary content is great as a bonus, terrible as a baseline.
Not enough content? People complain. Too much content? People complain.
I’m not complaining about either, I just feel it is strange they would work so hard on something that would soon be gone.
So do chefs. You go out have a great meal and that’s that. The book you read in a week might have taken the author ten years to write. Most books won’t get read again and again and again.
I don’t know about you but I’m bored with most of the permanent dungeons in the game anyway. I do them with guildies, but after all this time if I never did one of the original dungeons again, I wouldn’t be too sad.
Maybe temporary content isn’t so bad as people might think.
Well you can’t compare an mmo to food cooked by a chef.
this is more like a house…Anet is building house by making a huge room and then taking it down to replace it with another room that will also be taken down.I don’t really see it that way at all. Anet is decorating a room, and you spend some time in that room and then they’re redecorating.
Content that keeps getting played eventually become stale is my point. By bringing out stuff and bringing out different stuff, they’re doing something most games don’t do. I think that if they can keep doing it (better than they’ve done it so far), then it might be an interesting formula.
At very least, it’s an experiment in the genre.
The problem is the game is far from a good state where they have the luxury of temporary content. Going with the room analogy they are redecorating the room but there are still nails coming out of the drywall, holes in the walls, carpet has stains, etc. The new decorations take your eyes of those imperfections for a second but very quickly you end up asking yourself “why would you spend money decorating the room instead of fixing it first?”
I am absolutely fine with temporary content as long as the game is in a good place, GW2 isn’t. Class balance is an absolute travesty and probably the worst among any AAA mmo that has ever released. The combat is shallow and stale. SPvP is in a dire state and will probably never be an eSport like ANet wanted. WvW needs some serious reworking. I could go on. The basic game systems need serious attention, not more temporary content. What makes it even worse is that almost every additional game mechanic they’ve added have had massive issues/design flaws, it does not give one hope that when they finally do rework base systems that they will get it right.
This very adequately describes the issue. And it isn’t just the bugs, balance, etc., it’s also the fact that there isn’t really a sufficient amount of permanent content in the game yet to justify so much work on temporary content.
Temporary content is great as a bonus, terrible as a baseline.
^ This.
Like I said they new to take example from runescape over all the years that game has been out they have been adding more and more content as well as endgame content that only max players can do that if a new player were to start on rs right now he/she would never run out of things to do and all their content updates are permanent except for holiday events.
Well you can’t compare an mmo to food cooked by a chef.
Why not?
Because it’s like comparing a carrot to an airplane.
Insufficient answer. A chef creates a meal as an art to be savored, tasted, and finished. Over and done.
Why can’t they be content chefs creating a meal to be savored, tasted, and finished?
I do not see (yet) any reasonable explanation of why it’s different. I see an arbitrary statement because.
The chef also doesn’t spend a few weeks + $100,000+ in labor to create his meal.
There is a distinct price, time and labor difference between baking a cake and producing AAA MMO content.
Molten Weapons Facility
••This content is available from April 30 to May 12.
the adventure box
the island event
why make decent content that only stays a month or less, that’s just wasted development time imo, ppl are crying out for things to do leave the good fun stuff you do make in the game might help this problem.
Yes the holiday events for a set time I agree with since its the same for gw1 but to make the things above and only roll them out for a few weeks is madness when I guess it took a while to make.
You have no idea whatsoever how many people a.net has on any given project or what the best use of their time is. Why do people keep assuming they know how to run a game better than people who have run a successful game for 8 years already?
Making the mad king event in GW1 took time too, but then again it was used every year.
Maybe it’s the same idea here.
You have no idea whatsoever how many people a.net has on any given project or what the best use of their time is. Why do people keep assuming they know how to run a game better than people who have run a successful game for 8 years already?
Well they cant have a big team since the content worth of an xpac is 4months out and still waiting…. so why waste this content they do give us for only a week or 3 ? why not keep it in game, iv never played a MMO that makes content then removes it.
don’t say the holiday events as you will be seeing the same events for years to come.
Limited time things gives the illusion of a dynamic world.
Although I do not know. I think the original idea of dynamic events were that they would make the world feel more alive. Like what you do has consequences. The problem is that the scope of the events are relatively small and repeat too often.
Temporary content is suppose to make the world feel like a real place.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
Ultima online was dynamic as a 2d game, also the best open world game. (over 15 years of succes)
I dont see nothing new here actually.
SBI Firstborn.
(LX) Legion
(LX) Legion
Limited time things gives the illusion of a dynamic world.
Although I do not know. I think the original idea of dynamic events were that they would make the world feel more alive. Like what you do has consequences. The problem is that the scope of the events are relatively small and repeat too often.
Temporary content is suppose to make the world feel like a real place.
Not only gives the illusion of a dynamic ever changing world, which is a good thing, but it also gives some sense of exclusiveness to players. Meaning, that players who were there when a certain content happened can say, “yeah I was there when, so and so”. It also keeps players coming back to play more, because there is always something new to play. I think this is a wonderful approach to a dynamic world in MMOs.
You have no idea whatsoever how many people a.net has on any given project or what the best use of their time is. Why do people keep assuming they know how to run a game better than people who have run a successful game for 8 years already?
Well they cant have a big team since the content worth of an xpac is 4months out and still waiting…. so why waste this content they do give us for only a week or 3 ? why not keep it in game, iv never played a MMO that makes content then removes it.
don’t say the holiday events as you will be seeing the same events for years to come.
As I remember the dev team is a couple hundred people, and we know that there were, what, 8 people on the SAB team? I can’t say what all those people are doing, but I think they have the resources to develop more than one thing at once.
You have no idea whatsoever how many people a.net has on any given project or what the best use of their time is. Why do people keep assuming they know how to run a game better than people who have run a successful game for 8 years already?
Well they cant have a big team since the content worth of an xpac is 4months out and still waiting…. so why waste this content they do give us for only a week or 3 ? why not keep it in game, iv never played a MMO that makes content then removes it.
don’t say the holiday events as you will be seeing the same events for years to come.
As I remember the dev team is a couple hundred people, and we know that there were, what, 8 people on the SAB team? I can’t say what all those people are doing, but I think they have the resources to develop more than one thing at once.
If so were is all the new patchs ? I mean if you got 100 ppl still working on the game and they had content stored before release (crystal desert) and the mini games that were meant to be in at launch(25) why aren’t we seeing it, instead we get a weak 30mins content per month
still waiting since launch for Nerco minions to get their ai fixed ditto ranger pets and traits
(edited by raiden.9024)
Because they can,like it and are doing it.
TxS – Tequatl Slayer Alliance (EU)
You have no idea whatsoever how many people a.net has on any given project or what the best use of their time is. Why do people keep assuming they know how to run a game better than people who have run a successful game for 8 years already?
It doesnt take a genius to know that building something like SAB is a lot of work. Only allowing it in the game for a month seems like a tremendous waste of effort.
I can see them nerfing some of the rewards (like the shards) after a month, but I can’t imagine why they would straight up REMOVE a “dungeon” from the game.
Same goes for the new dungeon they added in this patch. It’s nonsensical.
Maybe it’s the coke classic theory, you remove beloved content to create demand for it and it is even more popular when it returns?
To make it special. It’s just like how there’s an economy around the holiday items. If you could just log in at any time to witness it, then there’s no incentive to log in.
Furthermore, this is not a subscription game, meaning people aren’t just going to play for the sake of playing. They will take breaks, and what more to get them back by introducing novel content.
The illusion of a living world is quite strong. But think about it this way. A lot of people complained that their actions had no effect. That town you saved? Overrun by centaurs 30 minutes after you left.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
You have no idea whatsoever how many people a.net has on any given project or what the best use of their time is. Why do people keep assuming they know how to run a game better than people who have run a successful game for 8 years already?
It doesnt take a genius to know that building something like SAB is a lot of work. Only allowing it in the game for a month seems like a tremendous waste of effort.
I can see them nerfing some of the rewards (like the shards) after a month, but I can’t imagine why they would straight up REMOVE a “dungeon” from the game.
Same goes for the new dungeon they added in this patch. It’s nonsensical.
There were like 2 people working on it initially, which was expanded to like 8 a couple months ago. Personally I think it was an amazingly good use of the effort considering that it only took 2 and then 8 people and it was really really fun.
Beyond that I don’t think the devs owe us any explanation of what they’re doing in their time. I could maybe see that argument holding water if we were paying a monthly, but we’re not. If you think there’s not enough permanent content, you can play something else for a while and come back when more has been added, it’s awesome that way:)
Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.
Not sure what to say to that really since it’s heartening to me…maybe GW2 isn’t the game for you?
The problem is not with temporary content in and of itself, there’s nothing wrong with doing that and the benefits are obvious.
The problem is that they appear to be focusing only on temporary content when there’s not a particularly good baseline of permanent content yet in the game.
Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.
Not sure what to say to that really since it’s heartening to me…maybe GW2 isn’t the game for you?
Yes because a temporary mini game…thing…. isnt for me the whole game must not be.
Wow. Just wow. Thanks for the laugh.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
Something to be remembered. GW1 was NOT an MMO. It did not have open world. There is going to be a learning curve on AN’s part, with dealing with more players in one area at one time. They have sever load and population load issues, etc already. In my opinion if they let these events run, they would have server issues, plus the game loses the “Live” feel. Things happen in a linear fashion. To keep things flowing they must begin and end. It’s no fun to miss them, but it simply must be as it is.
Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.
Not sure what to say to that really since it’s heartening to me…maybe GW2 isn’t the game for you?
Yes because a temporary mini game…thing…. isnt for me the whole game must not be.
Wow. Just wow. Thanks for the laugh.
What you said indicated you were disheartened at the way a.net runs their dev team in general, which means GW2 may not be the game for you.
You’re welcome for the laugh though, I aim to please!
Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.
Lol its disheartening to know that they are putting effort into their work? That they are spending the time to make things that people like?
Do you not realize that development takes a lot of time? From concept to implementation requires a lot of team cooperation and man hours, even for something as simple as SAB. You have initial design to think about – how it will function, how it will look, how it interacts with existing design elements. Then you have initial coding – which there’s a lot more to than many people think. Testing…then more coding….more testing, etc and so on until the final push to the live servers. For non-developers, this probably doesn’t seem like a lot or even like it’s all that much work, but it is. It really is.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
This new dungeon is not even considered new content since it will be gone soon lol. and hardcore pve’ers will quit all over again. hopefully the next patches will bring in some good permanent content.
Has anyone even considered that the temporary content may be filler until they are ready to push a solid permanent patch to us?
Has anyone bothered to consider how much time they are investing in the temporary content just to give us something in the mean time? While they work on something larger, while they fine tune the system, while they tweak balance and fix bugs….
That the temporary content will likely be reused?
That it, in and of itself, may be their testing for some fine tuning, such as faster patching, user feedback, etc?
Yeah, I’m going to get flamed for that, but from one developer to another…Thank you Anet for your time and your effort! Even if you do push the gem shop too much. XD
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.
Lol its disheartening to know that they are putting effort into their work? That they are spending the time to make things that people like?
Do you not realize that development takes a lot of time? From concept to implementation requires a lot of team cooperation and man hours, even for something as simple as SAB. You have initial design to think about – how it will function, how it will look, how it interacts with existing design elements. Then you have initial coding – which there’s a lot more to than many people think. Testing…then more coding….more testing, etc and so on until the final push to the live servers. For non-developers, this probably doesn’t seem like a lot or even like it’s all that much work, but it is. It really is.
I think the complaint is that 8 developers spent months working on (admitedly fun) temporary content instead of fixing the numerous bugs that the community and devs know about. There are core mechanics that exist permanently in the game that continue to go unattended. I know Anet has various teams, each focusing on their own thing. But why would you skimp on a team that can’t fix bugs that have been present since launch (ie – engineer scope trait) and affect permanent everyday play, but instead create temporary content? That is the complaint.
Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)
Has anyone even considered that the temporary content may be filler until they are ready to push a solid permanent patch to us?
Has anyone bothered to consider how much time they are investing in the temporary content just to give us something in the mean time? While they work on something larger, while they fine tune the system, while they tweak balance and fix bugs….
That the temporary content will likely be reused?
That it, in and of itself, may be their testing for some fine tuning, such as faster patching, user feedback, etc?
Yeah, I’m going to get flamed for that, but from one developer to another…Thank you Anet for your time and your effort! Even if you do push the gem shop too much. XD
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t they already say we where supposed to get an expansions worth of free content for the months of January – March?? to me it does not feel like an expansion.
It’s unfounded though. Most of the work was done by Josh, the jumping puzzle guy, it was his new jumping puzzle. The idea was that if the content got a good reception, it would be expanded upon and made permanent. I’m pretty sure I remember him saying that is going to happen now, so nobody wasted time doing anything. The other people were only added a month or two before launch, and if the numbers I recall are correct, that’s not even close to 10% of a.net’s workforce.
The vast majority of the time spent on this project was not spent by anybody who fixes bugs.
You have no idea whatsoever how many people a.net has on any given project or what the best use of their time is. Why do people keep assuming they know how to run a game better than people who have run a successful game for 8 years already?
Well they cant have a big team since the content worth of an xpac is 4months out and still waiting…. so why waste this content they do give us for only a week or 3 ? why not keep it in game, iv never played a MMO that makes content then removes it.
don’t say the holiday events as you will be seeing the same events for years to come.
As I remember the dev team is a couple hundred people, and we know that there were, what, 8 people on the SAB team? I can’t say what all those people are doing, but I think they have the resources to develop more than one thing at once.
If so were is all the new patchs ? I mean if you got 100 ppl still working on the game and they had content stored before release (crystal desert) and the mini games that were meant to be in at launch(25) why aren’t we seeing it, instead we get a weak 30mins content per month
still waiting since launch for Nerco minions to get their ai fixed ditto ranger pets and traits
That is all going to be included in the first “buy to play” expansion.
Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.
Lol its disheartening to know that they are putting effort into their work? That they are spending the time to make things that people like?
Do you not realize that development takes a lot of time? From concept to implementation requires a lot of team cooperation and man hours, even for something as simple as SAB. You have initial design to think about – how it will function, how it will look, how it interacts with existing design elements. Then you have initial coding – which there’s a lot more to than many people think. Testing…then more coding….more testing, etc and so on until the final push to the live servers. For non-developers, this probably doesn’t seem like a lot or even like it’s all that much work, but it is. It really is.
I think the complaint is that 8 developers spent months working on (admitedly fun) temporary content instead of fixing the numerous bugs that the community and devs know about. There are core mechanics that exist permanently in the game that continue to go unattended. I know Anet has various teams, each focusing on their own thing. But why would you skimp on a team that can’t fix bugs that have been present since launch (ie – engineer scope trait) and affect permanent everyday play, but instead create temporary content? That is the complaint.
Exactly. Why add a a jump puzzle with bad graphics and clunky boss fights when there are still game breaking bugs in WvW and class balance is in shambles. I haven’t seen an engineer in days, I think the last one I saw made one by accident. Yes this is an exaggeration, but it won’t be as long as they keep ignoring the game itself and adding mini games and temporary content instead of fixing core problems that have been here for a while, some since release.
It’s disheartening to think they think the game is good enough by itself to waste time on mini games for it, when half the classes aren’t even really playable in a variety of situations.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
So SAB, F&F, Guild Missions, Daily and Monthly Reward Systems, and New SPvP doesn’t qualify as expansion worthy content for you?
Right…….
I’m reasonably certain living story content will eventually come back. Right now as it seems that ANet is focused on fleshing out a year’s worth of seasonal content (which they will also expand upon, just not as fervently as this year) and will then focus on permanent content once we come back around to release. If memory serves correctly, they had a similar content development scheme with GW1.
(edited by Wreknar.5076)
I am happy so far with the content, but I too would like to see some more focus on permanent additions. Wintersday and Halloween make sense as temporary content. Even the Lost Shores made sense as a temporary thing, but it would be nice to have some more balance. We’ve had fractals, which was a brilliant addition, and hopefully Southsun Cove will eventually become an actual area at some point. I think there’s just been a little bit too much temporary content in a row, and not enough permanent. It feels like the world is dynamic, but it doesn’t feel like the world is evolving.
So SAB, F&F, Guild Missions, Daily and Monthly Reward Systems, and New SPvP doesn’t qualify as expansion worthy content for you?
Right…….
I’m reasonably certain living story content will eventually come back. Right now as it seems that ANet is focused on fleshing out a year’s worth of seasonal content (which they will also expand upon, just not as fervently as this year) and will then focus on permanent content once we come back around to release. If memory serves correctly, they had a similar content development scheme with GW1.
SAB and F&F are both temporary things so they do not count as new content.