Guild Wars 2

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Something to be remembered. GW1 was NOT an MMO. It did not have open world. There is going to be a learning curve on AN’s part, with dealing with more players in one area at one time. They have sever load and population load issues, etc already. In my opinion if they let these events run, they would have server issues, plus the game loses the “Live” feel. Things happen in a linear fashion. To keep things flowing they must begin and end. It’s no fun to miss them, but it simply must be as it is.

I still play GW1 more than I play GW2 these days because of the way they are treating GW2. People don’t want nickel and diming from the gem store. They want stuff to do and earn things.

sonicwhip.9052:

Wreknar.5076:

So SAB, F&F, Guild Missions, Daily and Monthly Reward Systems, and New SPvP doesn’t qualify as expansion worthy content for you?

Right…….

I’m reasonably certain living story content will eventually come back. Right now as it seems that ANet is focused on fleshing out a year’s worth of seasonal content (which they will also expand upon, just not as fervently as this year) and will then focus on permanent content once we come back around to release. If memory serves correctly, they had a similar content development scheme with GW1.

SAB and F&F are both temporary things so they do not count as new content.

Temporary content is a great test for how to improve and create core content.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Temporary-content/first#post1924126

Also any content that is not “old” content, is “new” content…

Wreknar.5076:

So SAB, F&F, Guild Missions, Daily and Monthly Reward Systems, and New SPvP doesn’t qualify as expansion worthy content for you?

It does to you?? Great additions, but I’d hardly call it an expansions worth of content. At least not compared to the games that I have played expansions on (WoW, Starcraft, Guild Wars 1). They do seem like decent patch updates, but expansion worthy? Not at all.

Expansion worthy would have all of that + a whole new set of maps in PvP + a whole new area in PvE with several zones + possibility of level increase + several new armor sets + possibility of new race and/or professions.

I understand that would be hard to do, and that is why I was skeptical when they said an expansion worth of content was coming. However, I was also very excited for it. The over-hype has lead to a major let-down. High expectations usually leads to disappointment.

If they had not made that claim, I would be ecstatic with all of the amazing content updates they have added.

Wreknar.5076:

So SAB, F&F, Guild Missions, Daily and Monthly Reward Systems, and New SPvP doesn’t qualify as expansion worthy content for you?

Right…….

I’m reasonably certain living story content will eventually come back. Right now as it seems that ANet is focused on fleshing out a year’s worth of seasonal content (which they will also expand upon, just not as fervently as this year) and will then focus on permanent content once we come back around to release. If memory serves correctly, they had a similar content development scheme with GW1.

New to the concept of expansions? This is more like DLC.

Jemmi.6058:

Wreknar.5076:

So SAB, F&F, Guild Missions, Daily and Monthly Reward Systems, and New SPvP doesn’t qualify as expansion worthy content for you?

It does to you?? Great additions, but I’d hardly call it an expansions worth of content. At least not compared to the games that I have played expansions on (WoW, Starcraft, Guild Wars 1). They do seem like decent patch updates, but expansion worthy? Not at all.

Expansion worthy would have all of that + a whole new set of maps in PvP + a whole new area in PvE with several zones + possibility of level increase + several new armor sets + possibility of new race and/or professions.

I understand that would be hard to do, and that is why I was skeptical when they said an expansion worth of content was coming. However, I was also very excited for it. The over-hype has lead to a major let-down. High expectations usually leads to disappointment.

If they had not made that claim, I would be ecstatic with all of the amazing content updates they have added.

Why does everyone hinge on every word of what a dev says? People here “expansion worth of content” and decide it means exactly what the player wants it to mean. And if it doesn’t stand up to your definition, then clearly they lied…

There have been a ton of updates, and to me it did feel like an expansion worth for a game that is under a year old still. People will find anything to complain about in a game, even though it is a no sub, buy to play game..

And I would love if people could stop comparing GW2 to games that are 8-10+ years old. A bit of common sense is in order..

Aeonblade.8709:

Seras.5702:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Aeonblade.8709:

Wow I didn’t know SAB ate up months of 8 developers time. That really puts into perspective where all the effort in this game goes too lol. That is really disheartening.

Lol its disheartening to know that they are putting effort into their work? That they are spending the time to make things that people like?

Do you not realize that development takes a lot of time? From concept to implementation requires a lot of team cooperation and man hours, even for something as simple as SAB. You have initial design to think about – how it will function, how it will look, how it interacts with existing design elements. Then you have initial coding – which there’s a lot more to than many people think. Testing…then more coding….more testing, etc and so on until the final push to the live servers. For non-developers, this probably doesn’t seem like a lot or even like it’s all that much work, but it is. It really is.

I think the complaint is that 8 developers spent months working on (admitedly fun) temporary content instead of fixing the numerous bugs that the community and devs know about. There are core mechanics that exist permanently in the game that continue to go unattended. I know Anet has various teams, each focusing on their own thing. But why would you skimp on a team that can’t fix bugs that have been present since launch (ie – engineer scope trait) and affect permanent everyday play, but instead create temporary content? That is the complaint.

Exactly. Why add a a jump puzzle with bad graphics and clunky boss fights when there are still game breaking bugs in WvW and class balance is in shambles. I haven’t seen an engineer in days, I think the last one I saw made one by accident. Yes this is an exaggeration, but it won’t be as long as they keep ignoring the game itself and adding mini games and temporary content instead of fixing core problems that have been here for a while, some since release.

It’s disheartening to think they think the game is good enough by itself to waste time on mini games for it, when half the classes aren’t even really playable in a variety of situations.

I don’t believe they think that. They’ve put a lot of work into class balancing and expanding upon existing content, on top of the new stuff. I’m sure they’re well aware of what’s broken and having their teams address it.

However, I do agree the temporary content is a bit overdone. I’d love to see a new zone, or at least some content made permanent.

Well Rift has a handle on giving out tons of content, just wish GW2 did Because It’s a much better game.

PearlGore.7419:

Life is to hard and is only temporary, It’s not worth living.

Why read a book from a library? That’s too much time investment for something I can’t grab on my shelf. Let’s cut libraries.

sonicwhip.9052:

SAB and F&F are both temporary things so they do not count as new content.

I disagree, it is content provided to the loyal fans that decided to keep playing and enjoying the game. Furthermore, can you say with certainty that Living Story isn’t seasonal, or resets periodically (Meaning the F&F story arc won’t restart in a few months)? Temporary doesn’t mean gone forever, nor a wasted effort.

PearlGore.7419:

New to the concept of expansions? This is more like DLC.

Not new by any stretch of the imagination.

DLC is nothing more than expansion packs, only in digital format. I can point you to a host of games that have offered less under the name of expansion (Diablo II LOD anyone?). If you want to compare it to GW1 expansion packs, you’ll be waiting another year or so until the first one comes by. That’s the release pacing GW1 went before releasing factions (the smallest of the expansions btw).

Geotherma.2395:

Jemmi.6058:

Wreknar.5076:

So SAB, F&F, Guild Missions, Daily and Monthly Reward Systems, and New SPvP doesn’t qualify as expansion worthy content for you?

It does to you?? Great additions, but I’d hardly call it an expansions worth of content. At least not compared to the games that I have played expansions on (WoW, Starcraft, Guild Wars 1). They do seem like decent patch updates, but expansion worthy? Not at all.

Expansion worthy would have all of that + a whole new set of maps in PvP + a whole new area in PvE with several zones + possibility of level increase + several new armor sets + possibility of new race and/or professions.

I understand that would be hard to do, and that is why I was skeptical when they said an expansion worth of content was coming. However, I was also very excited for it. The over-hype has lead to a major let-down. High expectations usually leads to disappointment.

If they had not made that claim, I would be ecstatic with all of the amazing content updates they have added.

Why does everyone hinge on every word of what a dev says? People here “expansion worth of content” and decide it means exactly what the player wants it to mean. And if it doesn’t stand up to your definition, then clearly they lied…

There have been a ton of updates, and to me it did feel like an expansion worth for a game that is under a year old still. People will find anything to complain about in a game, even though it is a no sub, buy to play game..

And I would love if people could stop comparing GW2 to games that are 8-10+ years old. A bit of common sense is in order..

I do not hinge on every word a developer says. I was, however, very excited to hear that we would receive an expansions worth of content. From the industry, this comes with certain expectations.

It was ANet’s intention to use these industry standards to raise hype about this content, which failed to deliver on these standards/expectations. I have yet to play the new content, and am very excited to try out the new dungeon and updates. However, it is already a disappointment, because it does not meet what they originally stated.

That is fine. However, I will be taking future announcements with a grain of salt. It saddens me to say this, because I do believe the ANet dev team has done an amazing job with this game and I really loved GW1. I also think they do an amazing job of listening to their community.

Guys guys guys, it’s like the twister fries of Mcdonalds (at least in the Philippines). Everyone loves them, but if you make them permanent, sales will dip because people can “just buy them whenever”. But if they appear on and off again for a certain time period, people will “upgrade regular fries into twister fries because they might be gone a few days after”. Limited content makes it more enjoyable.

Seras.5702:

I think the complaint is that 8 developers spent months working on (admitedly fun) temporary content instead of fixing the numerous bugs that the community and devs know about. There are core mechanics that exist permanently in the game that continue to go unattended. I know Anet has various teams, each focusing on their own thing. But why would you skimp on a team that can’t fix bugs that have been present since launch (ie – engineer scope trait) and affect permanent everyday play, but instead create temporary content? That is the complaint.

8 people isn’t a large team when it comes to development. Keep in mind, all 8 of those people may not actually be coding. Some may be testing. Some may be dealing with planning and design. Some may be working on business logic and architecture. One or two may be strictly dealing with database requirements. I work in a team of 8 developers, 1 of which is a QA and does no coding at all, 2 others tend to deal with architecture / business logic / management and do essentially no coding, and yet another deals entirely with database work, which leaves 4 people actually doing the code work in a team of 8. Now, do I know for a fact that Anet is working in a similar manner? Not for certain no, but its likely that they also do some sort of Agile coding, which would mean their team isn’t made up of all coders necessarily.

That team may also be comprised of people that work on other projects as well. When they get stuck on one, or have a free moment (waiting on approval or testing, or whatever), then they may work on the other. This is not uncommon in development either.

People are kittening that they are spending ‘too much time on temporary content’ and not enough on other things. They have rolled out skill balances in almost every patch. They have had bug updates in almost every patch. AND they are giving us fun stuff to do for those that are complaining that they are bored/have completed everything/ have nothing to do/etc.

How do you know that they are leaving things unattended to? The fact is that we don’t. We simply assume they are because we aren’t seeing what we want to see as fast as we want to see it. They could be working on those things, but since none of us work for Anet we really dont know. Instead we kitten, whine, and moan that our new toy isn’t perfect. Honestly people, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I will reiterate that development takes time, LOTS of time if you want it done correctly. Developers don’t always find the issue the first time they look. They don’t always fix it the first, or even the second, time they attempt to. The can’t always get the new feature they want to add working on the first attempt. Especially when you have multiple teams that have to coordinate on a large scale project, kitten takes time.

Patience is a virtue.

killcannon.2576:

Here’s an anecdote.

“Hey generic friend person, you should really try this game!”
" Really? What’s it called?"
“Gw2, it’s a great mmo”
“Oh yeah!! I heard about that. Read some articles that they are constantly adding new things to the game. What all have they added since launch?”
" Well they put in some great temporary content…"
“What? Temporary content? In a mmo? So you mean if I go out and buy it today I won’t get to experience all those great things you got to experience already?”
" Well sure you will, you just have to wait 6 or 8 or 12 months till they roll them back out!"
“Pass. I’ll just go buy a game where I can experience things whenever I want to”

Now we all know they have added more than just the temp content, but it’s obvious that each month they probably spend more time developing temporary content than actual permanent content (with FotM and some of the mini dungeons being exceptions). Even this living story is temporary. All this is great for current and long time players, but puts a hitch in plans when trying to sell it to brand new players, especially by word of mouth.

My opinion: Good permanent content trumps temporary great content.

By the same token I don’t like ANY of the permenent content anymore, as far as dungeons go anyway. You run the dungeon a while, it gets dull. People end up doing it for profit. That’s why CoF path 1 is run and other dungeons hardly are. Very few people run dungeons just for fun by percentage.

So you put in a dungeon, let people get their fill of it, and take it away, while it’s still “good”. It’s like when an athlete retires at the height of his career instead of waiting till he’s too old to play. It’s a win from that point of view.

As long as they keep putting in good stuff…and more good stuff, the flow of content will keep people playing.

Cameirus.8407:

I’d prefer perma content over “seasonal” or one off type things.

Same here. Holiday content should be the only content that is temporary and repeats. Big stuff like this new dungeon should be permanent, while the events that go with it (like the MA portals and recapture ‘camps’) should go away.
Future players should get a chance to encounter some of the content that they add. Along that same line, if no new permanent content is added and a player returns and doesn’t see anything different, they’re just gonna go away again.

I played through the new dungeon last night and it’s really a very good, very fun dungeon…

I think by modifying the rewards to be more in line with other dungeons, they could easily make this new dungeon a permanent fixture.

It really saddens me that this is going to be temporary.

On the counter-point is the fact that this “event” (flame and frost) is supposed to “end.” If it’s over…it doesn’t make sense that it’s still “there.”

It just sucks that one of the most well engineered and fun sets of bossfights in the whole game are just going to poof. Seriously….the boss fights in this dungeon made me stop and think…“whoa…they finally get it.”

The other side of that coin is that this team and create more dungeons and we can always have fresh stuff coming in to play relatively frequently, without it hanging around long enough to get stale. Because eventually everything gets stale.

I kind of like that the living story doesn’t stick around. When something happens in the real world, do we get to relive it again and again? Not generally. Something happens, we react to it, it gets resolved, and the world moves on. It has a lasting effect on the world by happening, but isn’t a persistent event. We need more of this, to make the game world feel alive, to make it exciting and enjoyable. We just need it to happen a little more often, rather than once a month.

Vayne.8563:

killcannon.2576:

Here’s an anecdote.

“Hey generic friend person, you should really try this game!”
" Really? What’s it called?"
“Gw2, it’s a great mmo”
“Oh yeah!! I heard about that. Read some articles that they are constantly adding new things to the game. What all have they added since launch?”
" Well they put in some great temporary content…"
“What? Temporary content? In a mmo? So you mean if I go out and buy it today I won’t get to experience all those great things you got to experience already?”
" Well sure you will, you just have to wait 6 or 8 or 12 months till they roll them back out!"
“Pass. I’ll just go buy a game where I can experience things whenever I want to”

Now we all know they have added more than just the temp content, but it’s obvious that each month they probably spend more time developing temporary content than actual permanent content (with FotM and some of the mini dungeons being exceptions). Even this living story is temporary. All this is great for current and long time players, but puts a hitch in plans when trying to sell it to brand new players, especially by word of mouth.

My opinion: Good permanent content trumps temporary great content.

By the same token I don’t like ANY of the permenent content anymore, as far as dungeons go anyway. You run the dungeon a while, it gets dull. People end up doing it for profit. That’s why CoF path 1 is run and other dungeons hardly are. Very few people run dungeons just for fun by percentage.

So you put in a dungeon, let people get their fill of it, and take it away, while it’s still “good”. It’s like when an athlete retires at the height of his career instead of waiting till he’s too old to play. It’s a win from that point of view.

As long as they keep putting in good stuff…and more good stuff, the flow of content will keep people playing.

The CoF p1 runs are more about dungeon design and the reward design of GW2 in general than about permanent content.

Temporary content can be fun and definitely has an impact on the game, there’s no denying that. It keeps GW2 in the news with announcements on websites and news feeds, and gives a sense of immediacy to the game that replaces the gear grind of other mmos “Don’t miss this!! Log in and get this achievement or this cosmetic item or experience this new content!!” It’s great for long time players and for drawing in new players, but also creates “tiers” within the playerbase.

But what is actually added to the game? About five hours of temporary content that will be gone in a couple weeks. I’m not saying it’s not good content, or that it shouldn’t be there. But I was hoping for even more mini dungeons, even more personal story, more permanent DE’s, changes to current dungeons to make them exciting and fun, more armor and weapon designs for crafters (not the mystic forge), more lore integrated into the open world for people who didn’t play the original, new dungeons that I can go visit or revisit as many times as I want. In short, add more variety to the world that I have grown to enjoy.

They have added some permanent content for guilds, mini dungeons, some unique DE’s dealing with the skritt burglar and the one npc guild, and a zone I hope they develop into something (please?). But the temp content from F&F hasn’t really changed the world in a significant way. All the DE’s, farms, houses, dungeons, landscapes, skillpoints are still there and when F&F passes, you won’t have even known it was there in the first place. The world never actually changed. You’re still going to be doing the same things in two weeks you do today, be that CoF p1 or jumping puzzles, grinding those mats for your legendary, or farming world events.

You’re not taking away from the game by “retiring” a player. But you are not adding anything by removing an inning from baseball, or a period from hockey, a quarter from American football. Give people more of what they enjoy, people that are here now, and the people who may be here in the future.

Has ANet said anything about the possibilities of making some of this temp stuff permanent?

I know there was a huge SAB push to make it permanent, but that seems to have been unsuccessful.

Hickeroar.9734:

Has ANet said anything about the possibilities of making some of this temp stuff permanent?

I know there was a huge SAB push to make it permanent, but that seems to have been unsuccessful.

SAB was more of a trial run right now. It’ll be back with the other worlds. Don’t think it’ll be all at once though, probably more like release world 2 (hopefully for 2 or more months instead of 1), then go away, and then world 3, etc. till all worlds are released.
But hopefully after all worlds are complete it’ll stay permanently.

Stuff like the new dungeon should be permanent. We need more permanent (PvE) content, not just new grinds (Wxp) .

Vayne.8563:

Goloith.6349:

I’m sorry but all this holiday/seasonal crap is just a stupid move on ANET’s part. Yes it’s great to get it nailed down, but in a fast paced industry like this it’s important to produce sustaining content to keep the players playing the game. Who gives a rip about Halloween, or Chrismtas, or April Fools if people are quiting and will never see the content ever again. You just made a bunch of content that nobody will give two hoots about 1-2 years from now. Those will be your core gamers and they would have been around had you not had these development dead-ends in the first place.

One thing you’re missing is that Guild Wars 1 players, at least anecdotally DO care about those holidays. The busiest time in Guild Wars 1, the time with most people online and playing were the holiday events. And this isn’t a small jump in the population.

Shing Jea Monastry used to host the Cathan New Year every year. When events aren’t running, there was one zone in Shing Jea Monastary, or once instance of that outpost. Like when a city in Guild Wars 2 has no overflow servers.

On the festival days, there were 90 plus districts, or the equivalent of 90 overflow servers.

You can say what you do and don’t like, but I think you’d be mistaken to say that people don’t care about these events. Some people love them. If Guild Wars 1 is anything to go by, a lot of people.

This is Guild Wars 2, not one. The developers have insisted on making this a treadmill game so there are so many things that need fixing/streamlining that it’s important that they fix those first then even remotely think about this temporary work. Why not work on a new WvW map or something instead of a supid continent that nobody went to unless for guild rush or orichalcum nodes.

It seems many do not like the Living Story and the idea of change being permanent in a game. Not me! Nobody I know watches the same movie in a theater 50 times in a row. The analogy is probably poor but you get my drift. If you miss something in-game, well… do the next release of the Living Story. Just don’t force me to play in a NEVER changing world.

bribrim.9710:

It seems many do not like the Living Story and the idea of change being permanent in a game. Not me! Nobody I know watches the same movie in a theater 50 times in a row. The analogy is probably poor but you get my drift. If you miss something in-game, well… do the next release of the Living Story. Just don’t force me to play in a NEVER changing world.

I’m fine with open-world stuff being temporary.

But complete, interesting dungeons should stick around. People like to have content to do, and many players have gone through all of the “permanent” dungeons so many times there’s no reason to ever return. Why should a new dungeon—a complete, and very fun dungeon—only be around for two weeks? Is it so wrong to want long-term variety in the game, instead of being told, “Okay, this two weeks everybody better do this if you don’t want to miss it. Next two weeks everybody has to do this other thing if you don’t want to miss it.”

bribrim.9710:

It seems many do not like the Living Story and the idea of change being permanent in a game. Not me! Nobody I know watches the same movie in a theater 50 times in a row. The analogy is probably poor but you get my drift. If you miss something in-game, well… do the next release of the Living Story. Just don’t force me to play in a NEVER changing world.

By that logic, with us asking them to keep a single dungeon we like, ANet should be removing the launch dungeons from the game?

I’m only ok with the continued half content/ temporary content if they work on permanent real content at the same time. If people want 8-bit graphics and bad story telling, that’s fine, but don’t sacrifice content updates for them.

Agent Noun.7350:

bribrim.9710:

It seems many do not like the Living Story and the idea of change being permanent in a game. Not me! Nobody I know watches the same movie in a theater 50 times in a row. The analogy is probably poor but you get my drift. If you miss something in-game, well… do the next release of the Living Story. Just don’t force me to play in a NEVER changing world.

I’m fine with open-world stuff being temporary.

But complete, interesting dungeons should stick around. People like to have content to do, and many players have gone through all of the “permanent” dungeons so many times there’s no reason to ever return. Why should a new dungeon—a complete, and very fun dungeon—only be around for two weeks? Is it so wrong to want long-term variety in the game, instead of being told, “Okay, this two weeks everybody better do this if you don’t want to miss it. Next two weeks everybody has to do this other thing if you don’t want to miss it.”

Because; to use your own words – in a months time it becomes ‘a permanent dungeon that many players have gone through so many times and there’s no reason to ever return’

Goloith.6349:

Vayne.8563:

Goloith.6349:

I’m sorry but all this holiday/seasonal crap is just a stupid move on ANET’s part. Yes it’s great to get it nailed down, but in a fast paced industry like this it’s important to produce sustaining content to keep the players playing the game. Who gives a rip about Halloween, or Chrismtas, or April Fools if people are quiting and will never see the content ever again. You just made a bunch of content that nobody will give two hoots about 1-2 years from now. Those will be your core gamers and they would have been around had you not had these development dead-ends in the first place.

One thing you’re missing is that Guild Wars 1 players, at least anecdotally DO care about those holidays. The busiest time in Guild Wars 1, the time with most people online and playing were the holiday events. And this isn’t a small jump in the population.

Shing Jea Monastry used to host the Cathan New Year every year. When events aren’t running, there was one zone in Shing Jea Monastary, or once instance of that outpost. Like when a city in Guild Wars 2 has no overflow servers.

On the festival days, there were 90 plus districts, or the equivalent of 90 overflow servers.

You can say what you do and don’t like, but I think you’d be mistaken to say that people don’t care about these events. Some people love them. If Guild Wars 1 is anything to go by, a lot of people.

This is Guild Wars 2, not one. The developers have insisted on making this a treadmill game so there are so many things that need fixing/streamlining that it’s important that they fix those first then even remotely think about this temporary work. Why not work on a new WvW map or something instead of a supid continent that nobody went to unless for guild rush or orichalcum nodes.

A single tier of gear does not a treadmill make. Just because you use the term treadmill, doesn’t make it a treadmill.

Vertical progression itself doesn’t make a treadmill either.

Play WoW for a few years if you want to see what a treadmill actually looks like.

Something that has been bothering me a bit with the release of this past patch is, why go through all this work and then make it temporary?

Out of all the patches in this game there are only a hand full that added permanent content which varies in how much was actually added.

Southsun Cove (cause there is lots to do here)
Guild Missions
2(?) new Spvp maps
Fractals (prob the biggest addition of the bunch)

Beyond from this i cant think of much else.

Things like Super Adventure Box and the Molten Weapon Facility are great things to keep around and both can be built upon.

Molten Weapon Facility is dungeon with just a story mode, why must it go to the wayside after this? Why cant it be built up with explorable modes so now a new dungeon exists with new loot and such and we have something new to work with. Same goes for super adventure box, keep it around and then next april fools add the next world to it or what have you.

It just feels to me we need some of this stuff to stick around so there is more to generally do, i personally loved super adventure box and wanted to go for the achievements but i wasnt always in the mood for it so i did the other things i enjoyed more. But once those tasks are completed since they will take longer i would love to go and do that as the next thing to tackle, however that is gone now and i must wait till next april.

I just wish some of these things stuck around, even the karka event would of been nice (didnt get to see it thanks to video card fan died) in a lesser sense because currently the champ karka at the top is WORTHLESS and they could of kept it as a good meta event like the orr temples. Anyway just thought if vent a little and hope some of this would stay around longer and be built upon .