Guild Wars 2

Torment – A condition that inflicts periodic damage, which is larger if you are moving.

….and this is being given to thieves?

This being after the official advice on how to deal with a thief was “move on”, ie run the heck away. I mean, as a staff ele, my only option against a reasonable thief is to run and hope I can get into a tower before I`m cut to pieces.

Now I am dead either way, if I stand still or if I run? Whose idea was this?

Staff ele would benefit from this….as if people take five steps to the right or left, they are completely able to avoid my aoe damage. Thieves are not the ones needing tools to keep people still as we cant outrun them anyway.

The idea is for you to carry condition removal skills.

Melandru/Lemongrass spike incoming…

If you couldn’t catch them before this, why would you continue to chase them after…?

I’m starting to get rather frustrated by the anti-thief bias on the forums.

Torment is a condition, when was the last time you saw a condition build thief?
It’s not gonna be dangerous coming from a backstab thief or whatnot.
Personally I can’t remember when I last saw a condi thief. They are ALL direct damage build with myself included and do you want to know why? It’s because all a condition thief can do is stack bleeds. That is 1 condition which is only dangerous on high stacks and just gets cleansed before it gets dangerous anyway. And since bleed is the only condition you will have on you from a condition thief (bar the cripple if you didn’t move from caltrops) you didn’t even have to pray to the RNG gods to please remove the condition you wanted it to remove when you pressed a cleanser skill. Torment will give thieves finally a 2nd condition to use (hopefully) reliably which might still not be enough for condition thieves to become viable but I guess we’ll know more on this when we see the actual patchnotes.

PS. You are an ele mr.OP. If you are unable to keep clean from thief conditions (I just explained you how little we got) then I think this new condition named torment is the least of your problems.

i just dont know what to think about the direction this game want me to take, maybe i just shut my mind and reroll a thief, delete all my character and forget they ever exits. every build i make for my wvw characters have to be thinking in counter thiefs.

now they run from you like nothing, now something that will make us dont run from them? what you want anet? what you really want?

I am going to reserve judgment on this until I see it in action.

That said, I have some pretty extreme reservations about this actually addressing any issue. I see the strong possibility this will only exacerbate current problems. But, we will have to wait to see how it is implemented.

I have to agree with the OP.

I do agree Thieves need another condition like some have said (I have one myself), however .. a condition based on movement, from a class you need to avoid is kinda ridiculous.

Vyxion.6358:

Torment is a condition, when was the last time you saw a condition build thief?
It’s not gonna be dangerous coming from a backstab thief or whatnot.

This. Seriously, guys, stop crying. D/P backstabbers aren’t going to be hitting you with this. S/D skirmishers aren’t going to be hitting you with this either. You’ll see this on P/D condition thieves, and honestly, they need a buff anyway. This is a good thing for the thief class, and won’t be harming the other classes’ viability.

Be careful what you give to a mesmer.

They like to give things back.

VOLKON.1290:

Be careful what you give to a mesmer.

They like to give things back.

This.

The whole point of their combat system was about dynamic mobility and positioning…and now they create a condition to counter that.

Seriously, what the heck?

Give the two of the strongest pvp classes torment , GJ arenanet.

They will destroy the game this patch 100 %.

Add to the fact that this new condition, as we currently understand it, has ZERO PvE impact (mobs aren’t known for moving much) makes this a PvP ability.

Yeah, I hope we’re all missing something because this doesn’t smell well.

It’s Common Sense; reason we run from thieves is because we can’t fend ourself against them while they’re in stealth.

The name says it all; Don’t Dare Move, or I’ll Torment You

Like we haven’t heard that before…

Once again and again..

I’m not Surprised by the countless undeserved Rewards this class is getting

Honestly i can predict the future of this game; Thief Wars 2

Totally

Sad

Perhaps the trade off for torment will be less access to stealth … in which case few people will have a problem with this. However, if thieves can maintain their current level of access to stealth AND gain this mechanic – the forums will explode. LOL

Ision.3207:

Perhaps the trade off for torment will be less access to stealth … in which case few people will have a problem with this. However, if thieves can maintain their current level of access to stealth AND gain this mechanic – the forums will explode. LOL

I sincerely doubt this will be accompanied by a change to stealth.

I would love to be wrong on that, however.

Vyxion.6358:

I’m starting to get rather frustrated by the anti-thief bias on the forums.

Torment is a condition, when was the last time you saw a condition build thief?
It’s not gonna be dangerous coming from a backstab thief or whatnot.
Personally I can’t remember when I last saw a condi thief. They are ALL direct damage build with myself included and do you want to know why? It’s because all a condition thief can do is stack bleeds. That is 1 condition which is only dangerous on high stacks and just gets cleansed before it gets dangerous anyway. And since bleed is the only condition you will have on you from a condition thief (bar the cripple if you didn’t move from caltrops) you didn’t even have to pray to the RNG gods to please remove the condition you wanted it to remove when you pressed a cleanser skill. Torment will give thieves finally a 2nd condition to use (hopefully) reliably which might still not be enough for condition thieves to become viable but I guess we’ll know more on this when we see the actual patchnotes.

PS. You are an ele mr.OP. If you are unable to keep clean from thief conditions (I just explained you how little we got) then I think this new condition named torment is the least of your problems.

Newsflash, new condition – now ONLY for condition builds!!

You don’t even know on which weapon/skill/trait will it be slapped, neither how reliable and with wich duration/limitation is applied the condition yet.

Look at Anet patch history…we have the right to be a touch cynical based on experience.

People always assume that a build is going to be capable of doing everything simultaneously – and do it well.

Like back in the day people’d complain how mesmers can create a massive damage spike with shatters, while simultaneously time warping their party while invisible, turning everyone into moas and then summon over 9000 phantasms to rip them to bits and reflecting every shot fired at them

People now realise that actually doing that requires at least 3 seperate builds and a single mesmer cannot do all of the above.

People now know thieves will be a recipient of torment, but they don’t actually know how it’ll be implemented, it’s not unlikely that backstab builds and heartseeker spammers won’t really be able to leverage this condition as fully.

Now condition mesmers… you’re gonna want to be afraid, so very afraid of those. Condition bunker mesmers are already a pain in the kitten to break, their greatest weakness is that they are also one of the slowest moving mesmer builds – but give ’em torment and running away is so much harder

The most likely source of Thief torment will be traps or venoms. Ohhh, so scared already!

That backstab thief with 0 condition damage will HURT me when I move while under Torment effect!

Apparently Thief burst builds also have high condition damage.

Nice, OP. I learn something new every day.

/sarcasm

Wouldn’t it have made more sense to give Torment to classes that have a hard time dealing with fleeing enemies, like Warriors?

Everybody is way to quick at jumping to conclusions with this condition. First off, like what was said in an earlier post, thieves only have bleed and poison. (poison wasn’t mentioned, but I do believe it still counts as a condition) Second, nobody knows where or how this condition will be used with thieves. Which weapons will include it, or which traits or skills have it. It could only appear on a shortbow, which tends to be one of the less popular weapons used.
A thief which includes torment, may not be so good at stealthing, and vice versa. Finally, if they are going to add torment, they will also add a way to defend against it. So all of the elementalists should stop crying till you actually see how it works.

Also, I personally like this new condition. I can see how it would be usefull in PvP, WvW and even PvE. Granted, the enemies don’t run so much in PvE. There are times when an enemy is nearly defeated and it turns tail and runs, I don’t know about anybody else, but to me, this is extremely annoying. Or, when fighting a boss while kiting, if the enemy uses melee attacks, it will give chase. This condition can be put to a very good use in PvE.
As for PvP or WvW, torment (and the whole update) might make more defensive builds, on different classes, seem like a better option. Being able to stand your ground while fighting against a thief, mitigating the torment damage.

Shemsu.8721:

kishter.9578:

i just dont know what to think about the direction this game want me to take, maybe i just shut my mind and reroll a thief, delete all my character and forget they ever exits. every build i make for my wvw characters have to be thinking in counter thiefs.

now they run from you like nothing, now something that will make us dont run from them? what you want anet? what you really want?

Maybe Anet wants you to improve your own personal skill level. I suppose i should clarify, i mean your skill in game, not your forum qq skill

this is insulting, and plz i dont need this. were having a conversation and nobody is offending anybody here but you.

When was the last time you saw a condition damage warrior? Those use Sword/xxx and Longbow mostly and got already two damaging conditions, movement control and good movement themselves with sword.

Besides, a Warrior cannot get Torment, it doesn’t fit with his type :o

Rising Dusk.2408:

Vyxion.6358:

Torment is a condition, when was the last time you saw a condition build thief?
It’s not gonna be dangerous coming from a backstab thief or whatnot.

This. Seriously, guys, stop crying. D/P backstabbers aren’t going to be hitting you with this. S/D skirmishers aren’t going to be hitting you with this either. You’ll see this on P/D condition thieves, and honestly, they need a buff anyway. This is a good thing for the thief class, and won’t be harming the other classes’ viability.

You you know how torment will be implemented how exactly? That’s right you don’t. People have every right to be concerned about this given Anets past changes.

Valin.4527:

Look at Anet patch history…we have the right to be a touch cynical based on experience.

How so? Thieves are far less scary than they were near launch with the 1shot downs and the unkillable stealth condition builds.

Where I can really see this condition being amazing is by a necro in combination with fear. A condition that causes more damage the more they move and a condition that makes them move and can be traited to do more damage the more conditions on the target gets a whole new condition.

Also the change to weakness will really hurt a lot of thieves because you just weaken them when they appear out of stealth and their burst is ruined and their burst>stealth rotation is thrown off. It will also serve to make some thief builds specifically those that use lotus poison(assuming it is unchanged) to have the potential to survive bursts without being forced to gear both toughness and vit.

People also need to learn to swap weapons/traits if they are going to be running alone back to the zerg or to an objective. A Staff Ele should never bee running around alone… switch to D/D or Sc/F to run then back to Staff when you catch the zerg.

what is this torment condition ? and where is the official word on it being given to thieves ? never heard of this condition before !

If true, my thought is: WTF !!! are you crazy a.net !!!! instead of fixing thieves resource type and burst, or giving engineers stealth detection this is what you come up with ?
OMFG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Latinkuro.9420:

what is this torment condition ? and where is the official word on it being given to thieves ? never heard of this condition before !

If true, my thought is: WTF !!! are you crazy a.net !!!! instead of fixing thieves resource type and burst, or giving engineers stealth detection this is what you come up with ?
OMFG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Balance-changes/page/2#post2249457

Here is the original thread with a link on the article.

Latinkuro.9420:

what is this torment condition ? and where is the official word on it being given to thieves ? never heard of this condition before !

If true, my thought is: WTF !!! are you crazy a.net !!!! instead of fixing thieves resource type and burst, or giving engineers stealth detection this is what you come up with ?
OMFG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is part of their largest balancing patch to date that is coming next week. Check the main page news to read more about it.

gaspara.4079:

People also need to learn to swap weapons/traits if they are going to be running alone back to the zerg or to an objective. A Staff Ele should never bee running around alone… switch to D/D or Sc/F to run Edit: then put your fist through your monitor instead of switching back to staff, because apparently not taking damage and not using skills for well over a minute means you’re in combat, trolololo.

FTFY.

’sides, staff elementalists can travel alone perfectly fine, assuming they have contemplated the mysteries of static field and frozen ground.

To be honest I see this more as a way to help ranged thieves by controlling target’s movement. I doubt melee thieves will be getting it.

P/P needs a huge boost and this could be really interesting for that build.

How long is it going to take for people to realize that thief and Mesmer are the golden children of ANet?

Yay! Ignorance and paranoia! Let’s all rage wildly about something we know nothing about! Everyone welcome on the bandwagon! Hurrah!

Things we know about Torment:

• it was designed as a condition primarily for Necros to solve the problem of people easily running away from them without giving them significant mobility as well.
• ANet decided it would effectively compliment other classes, namely Thieves and mesmers.

That’s it. We don’t know how powerful it’ll be. We don’tknow scaling, cooldowns, durations, potential interactions with traits… nothing.

In fact, the only educated guess we can make is that it’ll scale with condition damage, since it’s a condition designed originally for Necros. And even that is tentative at best. How many thief or mesmer condition builds do you know that are really all that right now?

Yeah… calm the kitten down. Tim foil hats back in their drawers, and fingers off the fire alarms please. Jeeez…

ProxyDamage.9826:

Yay! Ignorance and paranoia! Let’s all rage wildly about something we know nothing about! Everyone welcome on the bandwagon! Hurrah!

Things we know about Torment:

• it was designed as a condition primarily for Necros to solve the problem of people easily running away from them without giving them significant mobility as well.
• ANet decided it would effectively compliment other classes, namely Thieves and mesmers.

That’s it. We don’t know how powerful it’ll be. We don’tknow scaling, cooldowns, durations, potential interactions with traits… nothing.

In fact, the only educated guess we can make is that it’ll scale with condition damage, since it’s a condition designed originally for Necros. And even that is tentative at best. How many thief or mesmer condition builds do you know that are really all that right now?

Yeah… calm the kitten down. Tim foil hats back in their drawers, and fingers off the fire alarms please. Jeeez…

But Proxy, you’re supposed to overreact and claim one of the extreme ends of the spectrum!

DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW THE INTERNET WORKS?!

GG ANET

Amun Ra.6435:

You you know how torment will be implemented how exactly? That’s right you don’t. People have every right to be concerned about this given Anets past changes.

Actually, we know it’s a condition that deals damage, which means it will scale with condition damage. We also know that D/P Thieves and S/D Thieves do not invest into condition damage, which will make this condition minimally effective on them. So yes, I can safely say all of the things I said.