Guild Wars 2

Why does it exist?
It seems to be relatively useless unless you have 3.5k armor on you.

It barley makes any noticeable difference when you have 3k or 2.5k armor

Its like this game just wants everyone to be either full dps and die in 2 hits or no dps and be able to tank like 2-3 guys and get kitten d still if its 4 or even if 2 good guys hitting you.

Anyone else know why this stat exists? I mean its useless unless you get everything with toughness.
Where as if you use semi zerker/X you still do dmg but not super much like a full zerker. But its very noticeable that you do dmg.

Have you tryed playing wvw in full zerker gear? Tell me how that worked out for you…

It really does help a lot in WvW zerg fighting unless you have a dodge forever build. Not every build can support a dodge forever ability. My tanky build can hurt people easily in zerker gear. Please keep doing that if you play against my server. If you are on my server, you shouldn’t be a squishy because you are then called rally bait.

You don’t quite need that much.

There is always wvw.

You launch 3 Kamikaz Elem full zerk in an ennemy bus, you let them hurt every one and die, ennemies use heal and some CD, you ram in with your bus. WvW, how to 25vs100 for dummies, lesson 12.

im sitting on almost 4k toughness and it DOES worth it

I laugh on the silver mobs in the dungeons and I also have nice dmg

Knight gear ftw!!!

From the start I always built around maxxing the toughness trait line and using armor that added to it. I never used anything else so I can`t really comment on how much damage I`s take without it. But I do notice I can handle damage better then some.

English is not my first language so sorry if this doesn’t make sense.

Armor scales in a logarithmic way. This means that the more you invest in it, the less gain-per-given-investment you get. In other words, the 500 toughness points you invest to go from 2k to 2.5k armor give you more benefit than the same 500 points invested to go from 2.5k armor to 3k.

So when people say that the difference isn’t noticeable unless you reach crazy amounts of armor (+3.5k armor) it really baffles my mind.

With that mathematical consideration out of the way, toughness is far from useless, especially the first few hundred points you invest in it. Sure it won’t allow you to forget about dodging in PvE, but you also have to factor in the innate healing capabilities of each class.

“nice” damage… Define nice.
Nice is 10 000+ damage per second of effective fighting.
I’m for the use of berserker with parsimony in WvW (For roaming or kamikazing BEFORE bus collision), but i’m for abusive use of berserker in PvE since you can’t be more effective than a well dosed dps/support team. By well dosed i mean minimum support for maximum dps.
While some very good players can bypass support most groups need a minimum support to not become uneffective because of the skill factor.

The Sixteenth.2561:

“nice” damage… Define nice.
Nice is 10 000+ damage per second of effective fighting.
.

/faaaaaaaaaace…………………………………………………desk

Wolfheart.1938:

English is not my first language so sorry if this doesn’t make sense.

Armor scales in a logarithmic way. This means that the more you invest in it, the less gain-per-given-investment you get. In other words, the 500 toughness points you invest to go from 2k to 2.5k armor give you more benefit than the same 500 points invested to go from 2.5k armor to 3k.

So when people say that the difference isn’t noticeable unless you reach crazy amounts of armor (+3.5k armor) it really baffles my mind.

With that mathematical consideration out of the way, toughness is far from useless, especially the first few hundred points you invest in it. Sure it won’t allow you to forget about dodging in PvE, but you also have to factor in the innate healing capabilities of each class.

Does this make Celestial Stats a more appealing proposition since the initial stats one invests have more impact?

What I said only applies for toughness. Healing power, condition damage, vitality and all the other stats scale linearly as far as I know, meaning that you get, for example, 1% chance to crit per 21 points of precision no matter your total precision, or 1000 HP per 100 vitality no matter your total vitality.

Celestial is appealing only if you make good use of all the stats, which is extremely rare.

Thanks, that explains things. So a small investment in toughness is a good idea, but there comes a point when the numbers would favour investing the points elsewhere. I suppose the question is, what is the approximate number one would invest in toughness (assuming you have a defensive build), before the gain ceases to be worth it?

well if you get hit for a 10k in 1-2 seconds with 3k armor you tend to wonder. Btw i meant if you have 3k armor it isnt as effective as having 3.5k+. The armor dosent do much noticeable dmg reduction till you have enough of it.

Ive tried full zerk. If you dont get hit you will win. If you are fighting a full zerker with high defensive stats you will win because you can take the pain and you will still deal dmg since most of the tanky stat gives power and the zerker cant even take those hits.

Im talking about wvw/spvp when i say this because in pve the bosses/champs dont care what you got on.

Tibago.8276:

Thanks, that explains things. So a small investment in toughness is a good idea, but there comes a point when the numbers would favour investing the points elsewhere. I suppose the question is, what is the approximate number one would invest in toughness (assuming you have a defensive build), before the gain ceases to be worth it?

As Wolfheart said, above, survivability is also influenced by the innate healing capability of your profession and build. Bunker (survival) builds all make use of toughness and passive healing (regeneration) in addition to the “normal” heal every profession has. It also depends on what type of content you’re doing. PvP is different than open-world PvE is different than dungeons. It also depends on the kind of damage you’re facing. In PvP, toughness is useful versus direct damage and useless versus conditions, which are survived by a combination of higher health through vitality, regeneration and condition cleanse.

I have survival builds on a necro, elementalist and engineer. All three have around 1600 (so, ~2520, 2520 and 2624 armor). This seems to work in most contexts, although the ele is more susceptible to one-hit kills if I miss a dodge due to having a lower health pool. That sweet spot works for me, but players of varying skill may want more or less toughness to suit their ability and style.

Armor/Healing is pointless in PvE. They don’t wnt you to be a tank and they don’t want you to be a healer, therefore all that is left – you’re a DPS. And If You want to be a good DPS, you run Berserker Armor.

The people that say you have good dps in tanky gear have clearly never used berserker before…

My glass cannon Thief can hit easily -10k with #2.
My semi Berserker Warior deals ~11k with 100 Blades.

My full cleric Guardian deals ~4k with #2 (1000+ heals, 3300 Armor).

There’s a big difference indeed.

No content, except Tequati, in PvE encourages you to not to run full Berserker.

Mosharn.8357:

Btw i meant if you have 3k armor it isnt as effective as having 3.5k+. The armor dosent do much noticeable dmg reduction till you have enough of it.

You mean, more armor means you take less damage? I never realized…

Ive tried full zerk. If you dont get hit you will win.

OMG why didn’t anyone tell me this before now? Mind blown.

Tibago.8276:

Wolfheart.1938:

English is not my first language so sorry if this doesn’t make sense.

Armor scales in a logarithmic way. This means that the more you invest in it, the less gain-per-given-investment you get. In other words, the 500 toughness points you invest to go from 2k to 2.5k armor give you more benefit than the same 500 points invested to go from 2.5k armor to 3k.

So when people say that the difference isn’t noticeable unless you reach crazy amounts of armor (+3.5k armor) it really baffles my mind.

With that mathematical consideration out of the way, toughness is far from useless, especially the first few hundred points you invest in it. Sure it won’t allow you to forget about dodging in PvE, but you also have to factor in the innate healing capabilities of each class.

Does this make Celestial Stats a more appealing proposition since the initial stats one invests have more impact?

I have the celestial breastplate, legs, and helm so far and I love them. I also have a celestial type ascended amulet and a ring. What I lose in some areas I make up for it in others and it really is a decent balance. To me it feels more rounded and adaptable for any situation.

Nick.6972:

My glass cannon Thief can hit easily -10k with #2.
My semi Berserker Warior deals ~11k with 100 Blades.

My full cleric Guardian deals ~4k with #2 (1000+ heals, 3300 Armor).

There’s a big difference indeed.

No content, except Tequati, in PvE encourages you to not to run full Berserker.

11k with 100 blades is NOT nice. 11k/3.5 = ~3.14k/s which kinda sucks for a warrior since a berserker warrior hit more than 3.14k/s with spamming the 1 on the axe.
Standard 100 blades on berserker war is 35k without optimisation and around 50-60k optimised.
And yet you have as much armor as a full cleric necro while you being in berserker.

Cleric necro does tons of healing ~3000 per life transfusion, 380/s on staff heal, 850/s on wells of blood (you can make 2 at a same time if you rez someone), 380/s on focus heal. Blind, protection and weakness to prevent damage, condition reverter on staff, condition converter on wells of power, very good at stacking vulnerability…
The only point of using a guardian instead of a necro is for his stability, projectile protection/reflection and aegis.