I have to say that many of these changes sound great. But just like a majority of posters here, I’m not happy about the loss of the “projected profit.” Seems like it would be an easy calculation for the system to make, and there is plenty of room in the UI to add this. Can’t understand why this would be lost
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.
Now I need a calculator to actually see how much money I will get in my hand when selling items?
This specific feature doesn’t sound like an update, more like a downdate. Other things with the Trading Post update are actually updates
You always had to calculate it. Before this update the 10% tax that is taken when the item actually sell wasn’t showing. It just displayed the listing fee which is 5%
Now it show both but doesn’t do the total.
Haishao almost has it right.
Old Trading Post (OTP) ‘projected profit’ didn’t include the listing fee either.
If i list something for 1 gold.. OTP showed me a partial total including only one of the fees called ‘projected profit’ 90 silver and still separated the Listing fee 5 silver.. The Net Total would still be 85 which wasn’t shown.
New Trading Post (NTP) we now show you a total (qty times price) and both fees separated out.
I totally understand the desire for a true net display. It is something we did discuss and will continue to talk about as an addition I’m sure.
Thanks for the clarifications Curtis, would it be possible to clarify the missing “Projected profit” UI element, it seems to be missing for no real reason other than to now arbitrarily calculate yourself how much money you make per sale instead of being able to see it directly on the screen.
We felt it was important when selling something to know exactly what price your buyer was going to see. The change also is the least cluttered way to address feedback we received previously about profit including / not including fees and wanting to be as clear as possible on the order of operations.
We’re balancing a lot of UX design against desire for more information with the new UI.. We’ll be watching to see what sort of confusion comes out of this and may or may not re-introduce a net profit display later.
With all due respect, confusion is not the issue here – at least, not among those of us who are vocally talking about the disappearance of the “profit” display. It’s a requested convenience.
I can pull out a calculator and make the listing/exchanges fee numbers pointless to look at by shaving a % off of the total. A computer program could do it for me, which would make the interface more robust.
Here’s another question that’s always bugged me… will we be able to specifically filter for back items now? (an item for which there was never any kind of filter to begin with)
Corwin Grimjaw: Guardian (80)
Yak’s Bend Server
Crimethink [ct]
Here’s another question that’s always bugged me… will we be able to specifically filter for back items now? (an item for which there was never any kind of filter to begin with)
Yes, back items and accessories are both select-able sub-categories of armor now.
Just being able to filter based on items usable by the current character is a huge improvement. Thank you!
I don’t see why removing the ‘under vendor price’ items would cause any risk to the market – simply kick them back to the person who put in the order!
If simply kicking them back was something simply done I’d agree. The sheer quantity of orders to process posses some risk.. and one wrong bit of processing might require a TP roll-back.. which would be … scary.
Just being able to filter based on items usable by the current character is a huge improvement. Thank you!
I don’t see why removing the ‘under vendor price’ items would cause any risk to the market – simply kick them back to the person who put in the order!
If simply kicking them back was something simply done I’d agree. The sheer quantity of orders to process posses some risk.. and one wrong bit of processing might require a TP roll-back.. which would be … scary.
Positives:
- We can finally filter by profession!
- We can finally filter by back items!
- We can finally lose useless filters for gathering kits and toys?
Negatives:
- I have a feeling basic actions will take more clicks to get to.
- Not sure I understand how removing something entirely is an improvement over simply fixing it (i.e. projected profit).
While this is probably an improvement over the two-year old beta TP, I’m relieved but not jumping for joy for a “feature” that should have been released at the very latest months after launch. I’m sure the new design has more “improvements” than what we had been asking for, but it really isn’t that hard to change a web-based front-end to perform a different set of back-end queries. I have to wonder why they waited 2 years to release improved/relevant filters that would take a fraction of a day to code. If a car design forgot to connect the wiring for the button to open the trunk from the driver’s seat, you’d fix that ASAP, not wait two years to release the fix along with improved driver seat cushions and blinky LED lights (which I’m sure are very nice). =P
Positives:
- We can finally filter by profession!
- We can finally filter by back items?
- We can finally lose useless filters for gathering kits and toys?
Negatives:
- I have a feeling basic actions will take more clicks to get to.
- While this is probably an improvement over the two-year old beta TP, I’m relieved but not jumping for joy for a “feature” that should have been released at the very latest months after launch. I’m sure the new design has more “improvements” than what we had been asking for, but it really isn’t that hard to change a web-based front-end to perform a different set of back-end queries. I have to wonder why they waited 2 years to release improved/relevant filters that would take a fraction of a day to code.
They are probably using some sort of mix between Perl, LISP, and Assembly…
“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”
Here’s another question that’s always bugged me… will we be able to specifically filter for back items now? (an item for which there was never any kind of filter to begin with)
Yes, back items and accessories are both select-able sub-categories of armor now.
These changes sound like very long overdue overhauls, along with Armor Weights. Much appreciated.
I would like to be able to filter weapons by a specific weapon type WITHOUT only seeing items which my class can use.
Sometimes, I like to buy a weapon as a gift for a friend.
Additionally, I dont suppose this means we’ll see something so the API suddenly knows what kinds of items these are so external sites can sort them appropriately and automatically? =)
I totally understand the desire for a true net display. It is something we did discuss and will continue to talk about as an addition I’m sure.
If you truly understand the desire for a net display, why again is it being discussed and talked about instead of implemented? Sure seems like this should have been #2 on the change list. #1 filters ya! (very nice)
Curtis, I’ve written several post for this thread and deleted them all before posting them. Not really thrilled with this but, I’ll wait to give it a try. I will say the single most important piece of information of “what am I getting for this?” is still missing. If you expect players to grab a calculator for every transaction, please have single digit’s display as 05 instead of just 5 please? Say for the screen shot of selling Akitten’s value is 190595, not 19595. I can see players using a calculator will mess this up from time to time causing an unnecessary annoyance.
I’m not thrilled with all the huge icons as it’s taking up valuable real estate for actual items. Having each page reduced from 10 to 7 seems wasteful.
What I am going to be happy about is if the “Top Demanded” items is no longer displayed. The shear abuse of that column has annoyed me for a very longer time. Now if we can add a favorite items list for our regular purchases, then the TP would be much more functional.
I don’t know about you guys but I’m really excited for this trading post update. I mean look at all the new functions such as filtering armor weights! This is a really good patch and I can tell Anet worked on it. I don’t know about you all, but I didn’t see anything that bothered me at all about this new UI. It’s really well done, I guess we will see once the feature pack is released.
Get More Gold!
In my opinion, it’s ridiculous to get upset about this. The ability to trade gold for gems and buy gems with cash has been in the game since it started.
Also, the fact that people can do this is one of the reasons most people get to play the game for free. As shocking as it is, servers, employees, and bandwidth all cost money and your initial purchase just won’t cover it.
How did GW1 survive 3 years w/o a gem store then. And look at my post history, I’ve known since day -3 that you could buy gold with gems m8.
3 years? Try to this day without a gem-store making it 7+ years.
Blackgate Megaserver – [LaZy] Imperium of LaZy Nation
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
How did GW1 survive 3 years w/o a gem store then. And look at my post history, I’ve known since day -3 that you could buy gold with gems m8.
No idea and neither would anyone else know that answer.
Seeing as the cash shop (you had to pay with actual cash rather than a currency that can be bought with in-game currency) was released little more than a year after Prophecies and just a few months after Factions, which means it only had to survive for a little bit more than a year before being added.
Now if we can add a favorite items list for our regular purchases, then the TP would be much more functional.
You might notice on the trading post home screenshot a section called ‘recently viewed’. This in combination with the reworked my transactions list should make regular item repeats much much more accessible.
Now if we can add a favorite items list for our regular purchases, then the TP would be much more functional.
You might notice on the trading post home screenshot a section called ‘recently viewed’. This in combination with the reworked my transactions list should make regular item repeats much much more accessible.
Thanks so much for coming on here and honestly answering questions Curtis. I totally appreciate it!
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
Now I need a calculator to actually see how much money I will get in my hand when selling items?
This specific feature doesn’t sound like an update, more like a downdate. Other things with the Trading Post update are actually updates
You always had to calculate it. Before this update the 10% tax that is taken when the item actually sell wasn’t showing. It just displayed the listing fee which is 5%
Now it show both but doesn’t do the total.
I never really had a problem with it, since I’ve always have had a calculator by my computer at all times, and something simple like multiplying by .85 is no great labor on my part.
It’s not necessarily an actual error, but it does need rewording, that error is actually an internal buffer for trading so the TP doesn’t get clogged in a short period of time. You’ll notice it after filing a few trades, then if you wait 60 or so seconds it’ll reset, and re-appear after you do some more trades in quick succession again.
I don’t think this buffer will be removed, but that error notification needs rewording to something like “Trade quota reached, please wait X seconds for the quota to reset”
This is by FAR the best feature added in a feature patch thus far.
This is probably one of the most asked for things in the game since launch. I would say it second only to precursor crafting. Due to the highly integrated nature of the TP into the game people probably spend more time at the TP then any one other place. Improving this is one of the best additions to the game in a while.
I find it funny that people want a projected profit brought back when the new system is the same as the old system. That just goes to show you that people were very confused by the projected profit, so i’m glad they got rid of it. Projected profit always left out the listing fee meaning you needed a calculator to figure out the actual profit. The new system is the SAME. if you were using the projected profit in the old system without a calculator then you were doing it WRONG.
We felt it was important when selling something to know exactly what price your buyer was going to see. The change also is the least cluttered way to address feedback we received previously about profit including / not including fees and wanting to be as clear as possible on the order of operations.
We’re balancing a lot of UX design against desire for more information with the new UI.. We’ll be watching to see what sort of confusion comes out of this and may or may not re-introduce a net profit display later.
For me, the net profit is the most important value. What possible benefit is there for leaving it out ?
The order of operations doesn’t matter if the final result is displayed.
What possible reason is there for making this aspect worse by making us have to do more math in our heads ?
It seems to me, we haven’t lost any functions. You had to calculate the profit before, because the UI did not show the true profit because one of the ‘taxes’ was missing.
Now, you must calculate the profit…still.
It may not be a step forward, but it is not a step back, either. /shrug
Before: Projected profit – listing fee
After: Price – listing fee – exchange fee
That’s an extra step of math moved from the computer to the human. A step of math moved from the machine that is good at math to the human who is worse.
I don’t really understand the comments like ‘Now I need a calculator…?’ You didn’t need a calculator before? Or did you think the ‘projected profit’ shown before was what you would be getting?
For some people, the difference between x-y and x-y-z is enough to pull out a calculator.
Especially when the UI likes to hide digits. For example, hiding the tens digit in 1s1c
What possible reason is there for making this aspect worse by making us have to do more math in our heads ?
Goldsink from the kind of people that sells 1 copper above what merchant would buy.
ANET should be using goldsinks that work on all players. Not goldsinks that only work on players who can’t do the math, don’t know that that they need to do the math and/or screwed up a calculation this time.
We felt it was important when selling something to know exactly what price your buyer was going to see. The change also is the least cluttered way to address feedback we received previously about profit including / not including fees and wanting to be as clear as possible on the order of operations.
We’re balancing a lot of UX design against desire for more information with the new UI.. We’ll be watching to see what sort of confusion comes out of this and may or may not re-introduce a net profit display later.
For me, the net profit is the most important value. What possible benefit is there for leaving it out ?
The order of operations doesn’t matter if the final result is displayed.
What possible reason is there for making this aspect worse by making us have to do more math in our heads ?
This is pretty much my biggest “problem” with updates like this. While i think the revamp is stellar, there is still a couple key features either removed or that are still missing. It’s like everything we get comes with some sort of caveat, and seriously, for a video game, there is just too kitten much of them.
show the profit, period, make it happen, people have been asking for this, just do it.
sell immediate should absolutely not include a listing fee, there is absolutely no function reason for it.
Regardless, i think the work you did, to a web page none-the-less is stellar, you still might need to rethink who’s in charge of this. I can code this in a day. I bet 100% it doesn’t fix the “error in attempting to sell”. That is server side and we will always get that based on volume.
I mean come on, there are people that write API interfaces that do better.
How hard, (in five days) would it be to add a very simple math function? Sure would put the icing on this sweet update.
The UI redesign would be the longer part. Even though that would just mean moving the sell and cancel buttons down a bit and sticking a net profit line between them and the total price.
We felt it was important when selling something to know exactly what price your buyer was going to see. The change also is the least cluttered way to address feedback we received previously about profit including / not including fees and wanting to be as clear as possible on the order of operations.
We’re balancing a lot of UX design against desire for more information with the new UI.. We’ll be watching to see what sort of confusion comes out of this and may or may not re-introduce a net profit display later.
For me, the net profit is the most important value. What possible benefit is there for leaving it out ?
The order of operations doesn’t matter if the final result is displayed.
What possible reason is there for making this aspect worse by making us have to do more math in our heads ?
Exactly this, it’s ridiculous that a simple math calculation could not have been added for this, i ’m okay with using a calculator if i have 1 or a couple items to sell but if i have 10 or more items i have to calculate every single one, what a freaggin waste of time because you could not be bothered to add 1 more number.
Apart from this step back (imo) every other change seem very good.
I have to wonder why they waited 2 years to release improved/relevant filters that would take a fraction of a day to code.
You should definitely consider applying for a job there.
It’s definitely not the top of the list to fix. Look they released in China, a lot of the things they thought were missing from release in EU/NA… That’s bottom line for all of us. which is totally fine, but i think us questioning WTH they decided, is or is not out of our realm of idealism is questionable at this point.
How hard, (in five days) would it be to add a very simple math function? Sure would put the icing on this sweet update.
The UI redesign would be the longer part. Even though that would just mean moving the sell and cancel buttons down a bit and sticking a net profit line between them and the total price.
You do know this is a website, right? I mean a bunch of us are coders, seriously, we do this stuff in our sleep sometimes. I actually do a TON of translations too. I mean how hard is this?
An honest, sincere question here, regarding the lack of a ‘show total profit’ feature.
In what circumstances would this information change your behavior?
Not “But I want to know how much I’ll make!”… what would you change, based on this information?
Would you charge more? Less? Not list the item at all, and instead salvage or sell at a merchant? Under what situations would you change your listing in these ways?
sell immediate should absolutely not include a listing fee, there is absolutely no function reason for it.
I can think of three: Backend functionality.
Imagine hitting sell instantly but, between your client loading the buy order and you hitting sell instantly, someone else fills the buy order. That will be a problem if the sell instantly button has code specific for it.
But it doesn’t need specific code. If it just makes a sell order at the buy order price, then relies on the code that checks for matching buy and sell orders to make the instant sale, players won’t notice the difference most of the time. But, should the buy order vanish, the system still lists the order.
Which is a better experience than having the order fail and the refresh show a buy order of the same price which did not exist when you hit sell instantly.
But with no special code for the sell instantly button, there is no code to implement the tax exception as the sell instantly button is just a clientside UI effect. Human intuition
Reducing the price gives me more money for the same quantity is counter intuitive. Which can be frustrating.
Gold sink consistency
If selling to a buy order avoided some of the fees, then any time the buy and sell orders get closer together, sellers would sell to buy orders. So during that period, the gold sink of the listing fee would be less effective. Meaning more inflation during that period.
To be fair, usability testing probably went into this in some form. As much as I want that projected profit, UIs are not something you can just slap things onto at random and hope that people will “get it.”
This last feature on together with the other “lesser” features announced make up for a better Guild Wars 2 experience starting next week, that is unquestionable. Thank you Anet for that.
You can clearly notice the hard work that has been put on in reprogramming the TP interface. In contrast to this the new tags colors seems to have been rushed in without an afterthought on how they should have been earned: through the ranking/badges system. We would have needed more colors however.
Question:
In light of those interviews where potential new content for SAB and WvW was dismissed from the near horizon in place for the living story, can expect other large content releases now that the fundamental mechanics have been fixed?
This will hopefully be a great improvement.
I’m just wondering about something, the tax fee that you gotta pay to put an item for sale leads to, in my eyes, a problem with the more valuable items like precursors.
The listing fee is so big when dealing with such valuable items that not many players like to adjust their price to the lowest seller. Aside from the few players that substantially underprice, which leads to a stagnation of the marketprice.
It’s not that it troubles me much, but I just noticed it since I’m trying to sell a precursor myself. I don’t mind waiting longer to sell it and perhaps it could ofcourse be intended.
