Guild Wars 2

Dynamic events were supposed to be the new form of questing in GW2 and they have been a welcome addition to MMOs. However a weakness I see in them is that they don’t tell much of a story and don’t take you to new parts of the world the way traditional questing can. It is REALLY nice to be able to explore the world and see an event going on and just jump in and take part but I have to admit that part of me misses what traditional questing can offer.

I would be pro the addition of “traditional” questing into GW2 in addition to the dynamic event system. I think it would be a great way to tell stories about characters in the game and offer new gear to players and new ways to reward players. It would be a good way to point players to content and other maps. It would be a great way to give lore to players and let them learn about a zone and it’s history. On top of all of that I think it would give players something more to do in the game.

‘Traditional’ questing made me quit Wildstar after just a day of playing. :P I’d like to see more dynamic events and the current ones actually scaling to the newly formed zerg swarms, roaming the megaserver’s megaplains…

Traditional questing is why I am still playing Wildstar. The fact that the crafting for some Tradeskills is broken is what made me stop playing today. ;-)

But seriously, I like dynamic quest as well. Build GW2’s biggest problem is the balance of PvE events and Dungeons. I have not played in a while but the lack of build variety in this game always drives me nuts. It is just DPS, DPS, DPS. It is hard to make balanced Dynamic Events that use other styles I guess….

Build diversity exists. Get that fact straight. What you see as lack of build diversity is in fact the content in the game not conforming to preconceived notions.

Second, you want traditional questing, there’s the personal story and if that’s not enough, there’s other games.

Dynamic events are not the quest, Hearts are the traditional questing.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Build diversity exists. Get that fact straight. What you see as lack of build diversity is in fact the content in the game not conforming to preconceived notions.

Second, you want traditional questing, there’s the personal story and if that’s not enough, there’s other games.

No, it is lack of build diversity.

How many Zerker threads are on the front page today?? ;-) There was two when I posted this. Now there is one. And there have been many more since I have been on these forums. Not like this is some new topic….

Exactly…. Yes, there is a lack of diversity. There is no reason to use Control or Support builds in PvE at all.

I do have my facts straight. I have four characters that I can make my observation on thank you…. And it is my opinion, as I said. Glad you have another one. Like how are my so called “preconceived notions” making me see less diversity? What am I supposedly missing in my hours and hours of playing?

“It would be a great way to give lore to players and let them learn about a zone and it’s history.”

GW2 zones are not about history and the lineage of elves and dwarves. The zones and events show the current game world as it is today. GW2 doesn’t assume that you know that skritt are stealing from harpies and krait are taking quaggan slaves so it shows it to you in the events. You do get some history but only when it really does meet the current day GW2, such as the Charr fighting off the ascalonian ghosts.

Events and hearts could show the history just as much as the “collect 10 helmets from undead warriors who fought a battle here 800 years ago” quests. The game designers chose to showcase the current world instead. If you stop and talk to the NPCs you can get lore but it needs searching out.

Darkeus.2369:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Build diversity exists. Get that fact straight. What you see as lack of build diversity is in fact the content in the game not conforming to preconceived notions.

Second, you want traditional questing, there’s the personal story and if that’s not enough, there’s other games.

No, it is lack of build diversity.

How many Zerker threads are on the front page today?? ;-) There was two when I posted this. Now there is one. And there have been many more since I have been on these forums. Not like this is some new topic….

Exactly…. Yes, there is a lack of diversity. There is no reason to use Control or Support builds in PvE at all.

I do have my facts straight. I have four characters that I can make my observation on thank you…. And it is my opinion, as I said. Glad you have another one. Like how are my so called “preconceived notions” making me see less diversity? What am I supposedly missing in my hours and hours of playing?

Control and Support are not seen because they can be folded into DPS. Also, I run a PVT guardian in fractals, and never have any issues. In fact, recently I’ve come close to soloing the first half of the Molten boss fractal fight purely because I can take hits compared to squishy gnats wearing zerker. It was a terrifying experience for sure, those fire fields are not friendly.

In fact, Support was another third of what my guardian offers in fractals. Stability, protection, aegis, regen, retaliation, swiftness, might, my guardian gives all of it. Without it, there’s a notable difference because support does not equate the healing monk of GW1. Oh, Support also includes the burst healing a guardian can put out with the right skills. And then there’s Control. Immobilization, cripple, blindness, knockback, projectile disruption. All of that, when correctly used, is more effective than blind dps.

Oh, there’s also a lesser known component of control; taking the focus of enemies. There’s been plenty of times that me being the beefiest character in the fight makes the bosses focus on me more than others. It’s perfect in fractals such as Mai Trin, as I’m usually the one who needs to pull her into the aoes to strip the stacks off her, without dying.

Try doing a run where no one applies boons to allies, supportive abilities that heal, and no conditions on enemies. A pure and utter DPS run. See how quickly you die.

Anyways, I digress. Yes, GW2 lacks traditional quests, no I dont miss them very much. You either run out of quests and cant take anymore and get bored, or you get the same repetitive quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Much like DEs in GW2.

Our dynamic event system can do everything you asked for. Yeah right now it does a pretty kittenty job of throwing in lore but it is possible.

As far as exploring the world they could have it that you do an event in zone a and the boss drops an item. That item is necessary to set of dynamic event chain in zone b.

Renown hearts are essentially ‘traditional quests’: If you go up and talk to each renown heart NPC, they’ll always tell you what they need done. Occasionally it’ll be interesting, like why they need it done or some other interesting tidbit. And they always have different dialog when you’ve completed their task, usually in the form of gratitude.

Playing it like this is probably the most I’ve enjoyed the game, because that’s in the end that’s all a renown heart is: A traditional quest. The main bonus about how GW2’s done it is you can progress towards it before talking to the NPC – which makes perfect sense. “I need you to kill 20 bears but I saw you kill 20 on the way over here sooo…Gj!” And it can flow very nicely into the dynamic event system, especially when you’ve already spoken to the NPCs in question so you know what’s up.

If you haven’t tried the game like this, give it a shot. It’ll feel a bit oldschool at first, and I know it’s really easy to just breeze through the content without pause, just stop and smell the roses some time.

Their original concept was to remove filler quests and leave story quests. This resulted in dynamic events and the personal story. Hearts were added later, when they found that players couldn’t figure out how to quest without quests.

Dynamic events do tell a story, but you have to pay attention through multiple events and also watch what happens before and after those events. Sometimes you really have to go out of your way to get the story, since some events are related to the personal story, some hide clues within interactable objects and some are based on the lore or events of GW1.

Traditional questing tells a story in a simple method. You’re given all the information you need to know. With dynamic events however, you’re told a story as if you’re living through it. Sometimes it’s not even a story, but rather their daily life. You have to see the big picture to get the full story.

GW2 has been including traditional questing, but the quests have been in the form of achievements or left unmarked. Some of the living story achievements are basically quests. Even the meta tracker has been very quest-like. Some of the side activities, like the making of the Mad King’s book, were also very quest-like, yet not labeled. Maybe one day they’ll include in-world questing, but for now, I don’t think they want to waste resources on developing a system to support it. If they are truly adding a content-complete new zone, it should show what they’ve learnt and where they’re heading.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Darkeus.2369:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Build diversity exists. Get that fact straight. What you see as lack of build diversity is in fact the content in the game not conforming to preconceived notions.

Second, you want traditional questing, there’s the personal story and if that’s not enough, there’s other games.

No, it is lack of build diversity.

How many Zerker threads are on the front page today?? ;-) There was two when I posted this. Now there is one. And there have been many more since I have been on these forums. Not like this is some new topic….

Exactly…. Yes, there is a lack of diversity. There is no reason to use Control or Support builds in PvE at all.

I do have my facts straight. I have four characters that I can make my observation on thank you…. And it is my opinion, as I said. Glad you have another one. Like how are my so called “preconceived notions” making me see less diversity? What am I supposedly missing in my hours and hours of playing?

Control and Support are not seen because they can be folded into DPS. Also, I run a PVT guardian in fractals, and never have any issues. In fact, recently I’ve come close to soloing the first half of the Molten boss fractal fight purely because I can take hits compared to squishy gnats wearing zerker. It was a terrifying experience for sure, those fire fields are not friendly.

In fact, Support was another third of what my guardian offers in fractals. Stability, protection, aegis, regen, retaliation, swiftness, might, my guardian gives all of it. Without it, there’s a notable difference because support does not equate the healing monk of GW1. Oh, Support also includes the burst healing a guardian can put out with the right skills. And then there’s Control. Immobilization, cripple, blindness, knockback, projectile disruption. All of that, when correctly used, is more effective than blind dps.

Oh, there’s also a lesser known component of control; taking the focus of enemies. There’s been plenty of times that me being the beefiest character in the fight makes the bosses focus on me more than others. It’s perfect in fractals such as Mai Trin, as I’m usually the one who needs to pull her into the aoes to strip the stacks off her, without dying.

Try doing a run where no one applies boons to allies, supportive abilities that heal, and no conditions on enemies. A pure and utter DPS run. See how quickly you die.

Anyways, I digress. Yes, GW2 lacks traditional quests, no I dont miss them very much. You either run out of quests and cant take anymore and get bored, or you get the same repetitive quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Much like DEs in GW2.

I would consider you the exception rather than the rule. The DPS problem exist, there is no doubt about that. In fact, things being folded into DPS is part of the problem with build diversity. In the end, you are just DPS. Little variations to do all those thing you describe but in the end, still a DPS build with interesting status effects.

But anyway, time to get the thread back on post….

So I digress.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Also, I run a PVT guardian in fractals, and never have any issues. In fact, recently I’ve come close to soloing the first half of the Molten boss fractal fight purely because I can take hits compared to squishy gnats wearing zerker. It was a terrifying experience for sure, those fire fields are not friendly.

Are you insinuating that it’s bad to go full DPS? Definitely seems so. FotM is probably one of the worst places to use PVT. At higher levels, mobs deal a very high amount of damage no matter what; prolonging encounters doesn’t help the team (your reflects will hit less because of the gear you’re wearing…).

I feel the need to chime in because of the snide remark about people using berserker gear. People screw up and people will die on this game quite often, but hopefully people will learn from their mistakes and improve to the point of being able to avoid them happening in the future. You obviously make them too if you “can take hits.”

Stooperdale.3560:

“It would be a great way to give lore to players and let them learn about a zone and it’s history.”

GW2 zones are not about history and the lineage of elves and dwarves. The zones and events show the current game world as it is today. GW2 doesn’t assume that you know that skritt are stealing from harpies and krait are taking quaggan slaves so it shows it to you in the events. You do get some history but only when it really does meet the current day GW2, such as the Charr fighting off the ascalonian ghosts.

Events and hearts could show the history just as much as the “collect 10 helmets from undead warriors who fought a battle here 800 years ago” quests. The game designers chose to showcase the current world instead. If you stop and talk to the NPCs you can get lore but it needs searching out.

I’m not talking about dwarves and elves… obviously. I’m saying that GW2 takes place 200 years in the future of GW1. There is a history, there is a story to this world. They could show it through “traditional questing” better than dynamic events can. I want to also point out that I refer to traditional questing with quotations as to imply not a literal traditional but more a GW2 version of it.

That was the appeal of GW2 over other traditional MMOs. No “go out and collect 20 of this and bring it back” quests etc. Also they didn’t want the trinity in this game. To an extent it worked, but I secretly miss the trinity sometimes in this game. It’s basically a dps based zerging anymore. Of course, used properly, the support builds can be very helpful, but in most PvE going anything than mostly attack/dps based stats ends up being a punishment. I don’t miss he quest grind and gear progression grind of other games, but I do miss being a dedicated healer sometimes v_v.

Bolthar.7192:

Dynamic events were supposed to be the new form of questing in GW2 and they have been a welcome addition to MMOs. However a weakness I see in them is that they don’t tell much of a story and don’t take you to new parts of the world the way traditional questing can.

Actually they do, but you have to be more observant to find the “quest lines” that other games shove right in your face.

A while ago, I came upon a dynamic event somewhere in the Iron Marches that I had done quite often before, but rarely ever saw through to the end (a choice which I very much appreciate, if I get tired of an event I can just leave it and still get a form of reward if it goes through). This time, I did not only stay until the end but hung around to check out the lengthy conversation the quest npc had with an npc at the destination. Eventually, that other npc started an event as a result of this conversation … which, again after some npc conversation led to yet another event that I had often done before, too, but never realized its origin. In the end, it turned out to be a chain of 8 or 9 events which told quite a complex story to whoever was willing to listen to the npcs and took you clear across the zone through a variety of locations.

That’s just one event chain out of many all over Tyria. Each zone has them, some shorter with just two or three events linkes, and some fairly long and complex. Even the stupid boar in Queensdale has a story attached to it, although few people bother to listen to the npcs (ok, this one is short, but it’s there). So this is where I disagree with your view of things: Events do tell stories just as well as other games, this game simply doesn’t force you to observe them but leaves it up to you to do so or ignore the story.

As for the “take you to new parts of the world”, I’m actually very much satisfied with finding my own way through the world. The personal story does take you places (and can offer quite a bit of “traditional story questing” feeling), but for the rest, you are free to explore where your fancy takes you, instead of having to follow where some quest designer wants you to go. To me, map exploration is all the incentive I need to go out in the world, to find what large and small stories are hidden away in the next map, and even on my fourth full world exploration I’m still finding events and stories I hadn’t seen before.

I understand that dynamic events tell a story and I’m not debating their worth or how great they are. I think I stated this in the beginning. And I realize that the hearts are basically a better version of traditional quests. And I do not suggest that GW2 become WoW or Wildstar, please God, no…

This is what I’m trying to say: A system SIMILAR to “traditional” questing could be used to introduce side story, history and lore and give small characters or NPCs identity and strengthen the identity of larger characters.

Say you talk to Rytlock and he gives you a mission (or quest) and though this you learn of the struggles of the Black Citadel and Rytlock specifically. Maybe some hints to future content through the living story.

Say you get a mission from Vigil keep as a member and you are sent to kill risen in a specific zone or near an outlying encampment. You meet with the NPC there you’ve been sent to meet with and help kill risen. While doing this maybe a dynamic event pops supporting whatever story is tied to that mission. I have posted on this specific portion before. Missions from the vigil or priory or order would help to make it seem like it mattered that you are a member at all. You could earn reputation and unlock new gear skins.

I would like some complex, recurring characters with interesting backstories. I would also like to be able to learn about the characters and locations in Tyria I visit without having to go far out of my way, and I would like to feel like my actions have a significant impact on the world— that is, not seeing the same event come around not 20 minutes later.

I realize these things are not easy to implement, but I feel that the story is currently the weakest part of GW2. After a while, “X is attacking Y!” gets really boring.

Another useful part of questing and getting information on an area is the Scouts scattered all over the place.

Darkeus.2369:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Darkeus.2369:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Build diversity exists. Get that fact straight. What you see as lack of build diversity is in fact the content in the game not conforming to preconceived notions.

Second, you want traditional questing, there’s the personal story and if that’s not enough, there’s other games.

No, it is lack of build diversity.

How many Zerker threads are on the front page today?? ;-) There was two when I posted this. Now there is one. And there have been many more since I have been on these forums. Not like this is some new topic….

Exactly…. Yes, there is a lack of diversity. There is no reason to use Control or Support builds in PvE at all.

I do have my facts straight. I have four characters that I can make my observation on thank you…. And it is my opinion, as I said. Glad you have another one. Like how are my so called “preconceived notions” making me see less diversity? What am I supposedly missing in my hours and hours of playing?

Control and Support are not seen because they can be folded into DPS. Also, I run a PVT guardian in fractals, and never have any issues. In fact, recently I’ve come close to soloing the first half of the Molten boss fractal fight purely because I can take hits compared to squishy gnats wearing zerker. It was a terrifying experience for sure, those fire fields are not friendly.

In fact, Support was another third of what my guardian offers in fractals. Stability, protection, aegis, regen, retaliation, swiftness, might, my guardian gives all of it. Without it, there’s a notable difference because support does not equate the healing monk of GW1. Oh, Support also includes the burst healing a guardian can put out with the right skills. And then there’s Control. Immobilization, cripple, blindness, knockback, projectile disruption. All of that, when correctly used, is more effective than blind dps.

Oh, there’s also a lesser known component of control; taking the focus of enemies. There’s been plenty of times that me being the beefiest character in the fight makes the bosses focus on me more than others. It’s perfect in fractals such as Mai Trin, as I’m usually the one who needs to pull her into the aoes to strip the stacks off her, without dying.

Try doing a run where no one applies boons to allies, supportive abilities that heal, and no conditions on enemies. A pure and utter DPS run. See how quickly you die.

Anyways, I digress. Yes, GW2 lacks traditional quests, no I dont miss them very much. You either run out of quests and cant take anymore and get bored, or you get the same repetitive quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Much like DEs in GW2.

I would consider you the exception rather than the rule. The DPS problem exist, there is no doubt about that. In fact, things being folded into DPS is part of the problem with build diversity. In the end, you are just DPS. Little variations to do all those thing you describe but in the end, still a DPS build with interesting status effects.

But anyway, time to get the thread back on post….

So I digress.

You’re saying he’s “just DPS” – but not really. He’s Support/Control. with a little bit of damage.

The thing is… in ALL MMOs, the only thing that actually matters is DPS. The only purpose of Tanks and Healers is keeping the DPS dishing out their damage by not letting them be Dead (0 DPS) or Running Around Trying Not To Die (Minimal DPS). Otherwise, they’re absolutely useless. Dungeons have a specific amount of HP you have to chew through, and the faster you chew through it, the faster you get your reward. Build diversity comes into play when it comes to getting that damage applied. Too much squishiness means that you have to spend more time engaging in active defenses than actually dishing out the hurt. Overreliance on single heavy hits makes misses and interrupts brutal, and risks Overkill. A bit of condition damage can finish off foes without needing to waste an attack, or stack and exceed burst/direct damage in extended battles. Failure to control enemies can result in missed/blocked/interrupted attacks (0 Damage), dead allies (0 DPS), or inefficient AoE. Support abilities work as a force multiplier,

I’d like to see some traditional single-player RPG style quests running alongside the dynamic events.

Emphasis on single player RPG because I suspect when many MMO players think ‘traditional’ questing they’re thinking of the “Collect 10 rats” style quests.

Whereas what I (and I suspect the OP) would like is the kind of quests that in game mechanics terms amount to going to a number of locations to speak to NPCs, maybe collecting 1 item (which is always there) or kill 1 specific enemy. The emphasis would be on what those NPCs are saying – the dialogue and the insight it gives you into the game world and lore.

I know that wouldn’t interest some people (including some Anet staff, who described this sort of thing as ‘clicking past a wall of text’) but some people really enjoy it and it’s the kind of quest that’s very hard to do via the dynamic event system. You do get a bit of lore if you listen to NPCs between events, and more from speaking to random NPCs around the world, but it’s not the same as having someone actually explain the background to a situation your character is directly involved in.

that’s what personal story is for. I’m sure that tells much better story than your “traditional questing”

Bolthar.7192:

This is what I’m trying to say: A system SIMILAR to “traditional” questing could be used to introduce side story, history and lore and give small characters or NPCs identity and strengthen the identity of larger characters.

So basically you are looking for more personal story type storylines? Stories kind of revolving around/relying on you as a single hero rather than the event line stories that revolve around locations and npcs and the player heroes that help are interchangeable? Stories where you can set the pace rather than the world/game, where your input progresses the story instead of the event schedule?

Traditional questing almost always equates to “here’s some snippets of flavor text to give an excuse for making you do this chore.” I’ll be glad to see it go the way of the dodo.

The ONLY mmorpg I’ve ever seen do this sort of questing right is The Secret World. They’re far better written and far more diverse than your standard fare.

I really like GW2’s approach. Since a huge number of people just clickclickclick to accept and then plow through them, GW2 essentially pre-empts that by default. However, if you want the traditional experience, all you have to do is go find the heart NPC for an area.

Bolthar.7192:

However a weakness I see in them is that they don’t tell much of a story and don’t take you to new parts of the world the way traditional questing can.

Actually in Malchor’s Leap there’s a nice escort event that takes you across the map, leading you into a number of other events. Most maps have some form of escort event however they don’t particularly take you anywhere significant. So to counter you’re claim regarding taking you places, I’d say yes events can, however ANet just didn’t implement many of those events. I think perhaps its because ANet didn’t want you to feel like you’re being led around by the nose. They wanted players to explore and find events by themselves.
As for the lore, I have to agree. But I think there are better ways to carry lore across.

Danikat.8537:

Whereas what I (and I suspect the OP) would like is the kind of quests that in game mechanics terms amount to going to a number of locations to speak to NPCs, maybe collecting 1 item (which is always there) or kill 1 specific enemy. The emphasis would be on what those NPCs are saying – the dialogue and the insight it gives you into the game world and lore.

Was kinda hoping for a bit more of this (was doing my map completing in Black Citadel and I was in awe of the diversity, the visuals and underused potential) in the personal story. However the personal story was a bit too instanced, too disconnected from the rest of the world. Would have loved these smaller quests, being able to talk to people, riddle things out a bit give the option of talking or killing etc.