Guild Wars 2

It’s “hard”.

When I went in I expected an actually difficult experience that would test my performance and skills. Instead what I have discovered is a long trail of “no, ur ded :P” traps that instantly kill you hidden in the ground across the place.

It’s not an obstacle course that tests skill. It’s just an exercise in tedium.

Please change the text on the Tribulation Mode Cloud, so that others won’t be mislead into seeking a difficult experience and finding a boring one.

An example might be, “Click here to embark upon a three hour journey of tedium and general misery that will test your blood pressure to its limits”. That would be much more fitting, because talent isn’t mentioned.

Thanks, Anet.

~Somebody that was hoping for a jumping puzzle

SAB is not a jumping puzzle in itself. Therefore, you can’t just make Tribulation mode a jumping puzzle. And if all of tribulation mode WAS a jumping puzzle, what about all the people that can’t do or aren’t very good at them? For some of us, it takes us 10 minutes to learn how to do a course and do it well. For others, that may take hours, or even days. Think about all the complaints about the wintersday jumping puzzle being a required achievement for winter’s presence. Implementing this would generate a lot more of those complaints.

And yes, there is skill required. But it’s all mental

Yeah I slightly dislike that 99% of the stuff that kills you is not visible. Guess you just have to learn the spots

It’s fun if you know what you’re getting into (which should be quite clear after the very first jump) and are doing it with a group of friendly people. I had blast while repeatedly dying horribly and watching the rest of my party run into traps as well.

that’s kind of the point. Tribulation mode is intended to harken back to the days of platformers where artificial difficulty and hidden death traps were the norm.

…so what would hard actually look like, to you?

I speedran farmed w2 and it was a blast. If thats not your thing,

w2z3 especialy has many real hard jumps and on slippery platforms if your looking for movement key precision.

Otherwise, whats the difference between this and NotSoSecret, after a failed jum u just go to begining/check point, death is even faster than walking

There are certainly hard parts to it and certain jumps are pretty hard. But figuring it out is relatively hard. It’s certainly easier if people run to youtube and look up a video.

In fact, figuring out where to go and what to do is hard. In fact, it’s hard in the same way a raid is hard.

Most people figure out what to do relatively fast raiding, but it’s the execution that takes practice…SAB tribulation mode is the same way.

It requires patience, repetition and focus. But it’s the puzzle aspects that I enjoy most.

Vayne.8563:

There are certainly hard parts to it and certain jumps are pretty hard. But figuring it out is relatively hard. It’s certainly easier if people run to youtube and look up a video.

In fact, figuring out where to go and what to do is hard. In fact, it’s hard in the same way a raid is hard.

Most people figure out what to do relatively fast raiding, but it’s the execution that takes practice…SAB tribulation mode is the same way.

It requires patience, repetition and focus. But it’s the puzzle aspects that I enjoy most.

This is my experience with nearly every game ever. Most games are a puzzle. You just have to figure out the method, then suddenly it is easy.

I just want to know who thought it was a good idea to put spikes on a stupidly-narrow ledge that, if you jump onto at an angle that won’t get you into the spikes, has you fall off the edge. Especially as a Charr. (That should be worth extra rewards)

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

It’s “hard”.

When I went in I expected an actually difficult experience that would test my performance and skills. Instead what I have discovered is a long trail of “no, ur ded :P” traps that instantly kill you hidden in the ground across the place.

It’s not an obstacle course that tests skill. It’s just an exercise in tedium.

Please change the text on the Tribulation Mode Cloud, so that others won’t be mislead into seeking a difficult experience and finding a boring one.

An example might be, “Click here to embark upon a three hour journey of tedium and general misery that will test your blood pressure to its limits”. That would be much more fitting, because talent isn’t mentioned.

Thanks, Anet.

~Somebody that was hoping for a jumping puzzle

I think that what the part about Masochists is for.

Tribulation mode is pretty much trial and error game. Cat Mario stuff to eat your contiue coins..and maybe convince people to buy that infinite coin :p

Just remember, you can do it! There’s a certain technique to much of the jumps. The absolute worst part was the icy floor with the spikes in world 3-stage 3 because on icy floors you start off slow then go fast then takes much longer to slow down. Of course that part is hard since you’re surrounded by instant death spikes, have poor traction, and said poor traction will still get you even if you know when to run when the blower walls open up.

Agemnon.4608:

Just remember, you can do it! There’s a certain technique to much of the jumps. The absolute worst part was the icy floor with the spikes in world 3-stage 3 because on icy floors you start off slow then go fast then takes much longer to slow down. Of course that part is hard since you’re surrounded by instant death spikes, have poor traction, and said poor traction will still get you even if you know when to run when the blower walls open up.

Just use no-no cloud, you will have invulnerability and you can skip this “hard” part easily.

w2z3 is easier than w2z2. You have more room for errors and less pixel perfect jumps.

What I hear the OP saying is: they don’t like SAB/tribulation mode. They expected X and they got Y and they don’t like it.

Which is fine — not everyone is going to enjoy it (I certainly don’t). But there’s a huge crowd of people that love that sort of thing. No reason to rain on their parade.

Takoyakii.2146:

Tribulation mode is pretty much trial and error game. Cat Mario stuff to eat your contiue coins..and maybe convince people to buy that infinite coin :p

I was seriously confused why anyone would really need the Infinite coin – even just playing normal mode spits a lot of them at you as loot.

Then I started playing Tribulation mode…

Ticky.5831:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

It’s “hard”.

<snip>

I think that what the part about Masochists is for.

It is deliberately parroting games like IWBTG and Cat Mario, I personally don’t like that kind of difficulty either but it is literally wearing its inspiration on its sleeve.

See here for some old clarification by Josh himself: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/sab-bts/Tribulation-Mode-I-am-ready/first#post2739003

The whole Back to School section is a treasure trove of old dev posts by Josh, and among other things it sadly also likely hides the real reason why future worlds basically got axed this time around.

Tribulation Mode is the SAB version of Cat Mario.

It’s supposed to be troll and funny (thus April Fools).

I feels for you OP, I had the same opinion when I started w1z1 and got through my first set of five lives without leaving sight of the picnic. I raged fairly hard at the bouncing rocks and chasm part too, that in itself consumed more lives than the entire rest of the zone. I also got very angry when I realised that the bar steward youtuber whose video I was watching got in a VERY lucky shortcut near the end with a pixel perfect jump, that I did not need to waste 3 continues on. But now I have that little green coin, have farmed 3-4x more continues than I used for w1z1, and am looking forward to w1z2. I guess this is what they meant by “I like this sort of thing, don’t judge me”. Best. Festival. Ever.

Artemid.3925:

…so what would hard actually look like, to you?

Probably removing (most of) the hidden part of all the traps. As it is, it’s a test of memory, not reflexes or strategy. Not even a test of observation and attention like Pain Cliffs is.

You find a guide, because otherwise you’ll be dying a lot, and you memorize the path. Done.

If it were challenging/hard content, rather than punishing content, then you wouldn’t need a guide to avoid a hundred deaths.

CadeRG.4508:

Tribulation Mode is the SAB version of Cat Mario.

It’s supposed to be troll and funny (thus April Fools).

It wasn’t part of April Fool’s, technically speaking.

What? Tribulation Mode is difficult for the average gamer and that’s enough, it’s not meant to be a raid or extremely difficult. Aaaand was made in spare time Josh had… it’s fine as it is.

I think that is why they called it tribulation mode rather than hard mode.

Tribulation means to go through suffering or pain (which I think they accomplished with the mode) – so the warning is right there in the name.

Remember, SAB was never intended to be serious content. It’s an homage to old console games that started as a bit of an April Fool’s Day joke by a developer in his spare time.

Blaeys.3102:

Remember, SAB was never intended to be serious content. It’s an homage to old console games that started as a bit of an April Fool’s Day joke by a developer in his spare time.

Correction, SAB was an April Fools joke that Josh came up with and pitched to the company and while doing so he said he had an idea of the people he’d want to do it with. They prototyped it for a while and eventually got the full green light for that first April Fools.

SAB was conceived by Josh, but created by a team of people (4-5 if memory serves) with Josh as their coordinator. So please let’s debunk this one developer spare time project theory once and for all… yes Josh deserves a lot of credit for SAB but not all of it. Even for the first release, while it was that small team for most of it towards the end bunch of other people at the company pitched in (like the composers for the music and cinematics team for the trailer, and obviously QA).

Blaeys.3102:

I think that is why they called it tribulation mode rather than hard mode.

Tribulation means to go through suffering or pain (which I think they accomplished with the mode) – so the warning is right there in the name.

Remember, SAB was never intended to be serious content. It’s an homage to old console games that started as a bit of an April Fool’s Day joke by a developer in his spare time.

That’s it?! Tribulation Mode is a work of art requiring memory, judgment, and excellent fine motor skills. The next expansion’s map needs to take inspiration from Tribulation Mode and have exploring those areas as difficult and in the same way, but more difficult overall because you’d have new enemies slightly tougher than the ones in HoT areas. You’d even have narrow landing ledges and trampolene like world 2-stage 2.

Imagine what the developers could do with expansion maps? You’re dodge jumping to a ledge and narrowly make it, then you perform a tight dodge jump around the corner…only to be confronted with the next expansion’s equivalent of shadow reapers and mordrem tormentors? And they’d respawn too.

ANet does seem to follow that “punishing” is equivalent to “challenging.” Playing SAB has reminded me of that. Well, reminded me even more. GW2 has always had this edge of “do or die” that doesn’t promote “fail and learn” very well.

Also, Trib mode is there to sell Infinite Continue Coins. [/tinfoilhat]

Agemnon.4608:

Blaeys.3102:

I think that is why they called it tribulation mode rather than hard mode.

Tribulation means to go through suffering or pain (which I think they accomplished with the mode) – so the warning is right there in the name.

Remember, SAB was never intended to be serious content. It’s an homage to old console games that started as a bit of an April Fool’s Day joke by a developer in his spare time.

That’s it?! Tribulation Mode is a work of art requiring memory, judgment, and excellent fine motor skills. The next expansion’s map needs to take inspiration from Tribulation Mode and have exploring those areas as difficult and in the same way, but more difficult overall because you’d have new enemies slightly tougher than the ones in HoT areas. You’d even have narrow landing ledges and trampolene like world 2-stage 2.

Imagine what the developers could do with expansion maps? You’re dodge jumping to a ledge and narrowly make it, then you perform a tight dodge jump around the corner…only to be confronted with the next expansion’s equivalent of shadow reapers and mordrem tormentors? And they’d respawn too.

What does this rant have to do with the message you replied to?

Rauderi.8706:

Also, Trib mode is there to sell Infinite Continue Coins. [/tinfoilhat]

That is definitely a popular theory but if Josh is to be believed that is not the case.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/sab-bts/Is-it-too-hard-Respect-the-awesome-work/page/19#post2785093

Note: this is from a time before the generous shortcut over the clouds in W2 Z2 or the teleport to Yeti on Z3 or even the skip over one of the rivers in rapids were ever a thing, those are all new for this release. The Piranha Bend was also significantly different with a pattern puzzle with geysers going up and down. Same with the flowers they worked differently (if you know Not So Secret they worked the same as there, and in the dragon ball arena).

It’s an exercise in memory and technical jumping. Most people would consider that hard. Not sure if you want to humblebrag, or just are one of those people that are disenchanted with the game and want to spread it around.

Even when you learn the trap locations, there are legitimately hard jumps you need to make where failing will send you back a solid 10min-15min. Or areas where you need precise timing and positioning. How is that not hard? What IS hard then? By your definition nothing is hard then because every game boils down to putting time into learning the mechanics and muscle memory.

Perhaps an understanding of what tribulation means would shed some light on things. I don’t recall tribulation mode ever being marketed as your typical “hard mode”.

Blaeys.3102:

I think that is why they called it tribulation mode rather than hard mode.

Tribulation means to go through suffering or pain (which I think they accomplished with the mode) – so the warning is right there in the name.

Remember, SAB was never intended to be serious content. It’s an homage to old console games that started as a bit of an April Fool’s Day joke by a developer in his spare time.

And yet, I hold this content dearly in my heart since it first became available. Second to first Halloween event it was the best seasonal content ever!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Artemid.3925:

…so what would hard actually look like, to you?

Probably removing (most of) the hidden part of all the traps. As it is, it’s a test of memory, not reflexes or strategy. Not even a test of observation and attention like Pain Cliffs is.

You find a guide, because otherwise you’ll be dying a lot, and you memorize the path. Done.

If it were challenging/hard content, rather than punishing content, then you wouldn’t need a guide to avoid a hundred deaths.

That might be hard mode for the regular game, but it wouldn’t fit the Zeldathic theme. In fact, the entire reason I don’t like games like that is that they are set up to be nearly identical each time, that the entire challenge of any mode is about learning the route and remembering where to turn, twist, hide, fight, avoid fights, etc.

Again, I think the point here is that the OP doesn’t like the challenge of tribulation mode. That should be okay with them and with us — SAB isn’t for everyone and Tribulation Mode is for a smaller subset.

Just because we don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed or inherently flawed.

tl;dr it’s okay not to like SAB and it’s okay not to like Tribulation Mode. That doesn’t mean they aren’t “hard” and “harder.”

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Artemid.3925:

…so what would hard actually look like, to you?

Probably removing (most of) the hidden part of all the traps. As it is, it’s a test of memory, not reflexes or strategy. Not even a test of observation and attention like Pain Cliffs is.

You find a guide, because otherwise you’ll be dying a lot, and you memorize the path. Done.

If it were challenging/hard content, rather than punishing content, then you wouldn’t need a guide to avoid a hundred deaths.

That might be hard mode for the regular game, but it wouldn’t fit the Zeldathic theme. In fact, the entire reason I don’t like games like that is that they are set up to be nearly identical each time, that the entire challenge of any mode is about learning the route and remembering where to turn, twist, hide, fight, avoid fights, etc.

Again, I think the point here is that the OP doesn’t like the challenge of tribulation mode. That should be okay with them and with us — SAB isn’t for everyone and Tribulation Mode is for a smaller subset.

Just because we don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed or inherently flawed.

tl;dr it’s okay not to like SAB and it’s okay not to like Tribulation Mode. That doesn’t mean they aren’t “hard” and “harder.”

Exactly. And it is not meant to be super-ultra hard content with varying randomic encounters and difficult simultaneous mechanics. It’s fine as it is.

I love Tribulation mode as long as I have a friend who can put up with my absolute failure at jumping (Being a Charr doesn’t help at all here), and my complete lack of memory.

Highlight from the weekend Tribulation Run of 1-2 included me running into the same set of spike traps right in front of a lily-jumping sequence about two dozen times in a row. About half a dozen of them even had the most experienced member of the run standing in front of the spikes to deter me from running into them (And It successfully got me to veer away about half those attempts). And even when I did remember the spikes were there, I kept fouling up the lily-jumps, so…

Ticky.5831:

Agemnon.4608:

Blaeys.3102:

I think that is why they called it tribulation mode rather than hard mode.

Tribulation means to go through suffering or pain (which I think they accomplished with the mode) – so the warning is right there in the name.

Remember, SAB was never intended to be serious content. It’s an homage to old console games that started as a bit of an April Fool’s Day joke by a developer in his spare time.

That’s it?! Tribulation Mode is a work of art requiring memory, judgment, and excellent fine motor skills. The next expansion’s map needs to take inspiration from Tribulation Mode and have exploring those areas as difficult and in the same way, but more difficult overall because you’d have new enemies slightly tougher than the ones in HoT areas. You’d even have narrow landing ledges and trampolene like world 2-stage 2.

Imagine what the developers could do with expansion maps? You’re dodge jumping to a ledge and narrowly make it, then you perform a tight dodge jump around the corner…only to be confronted with the next expansion’s equivalent of shadow reapers and mordrem tormentors? And they’d respawn too.

What does this rant have to do with the message you replied to?

It’s just that such an amazing level design can come from one guy just messing around and how there’s so much potential the main maps can achieve regarding level design and overall challenge. .

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Artemid.3925:

…so what would hard actually look like, to you?

Probably removing (most of) the hidden part of all the traps. As it is, it’s a test of memory, not reflexes or strategy. Not even a test of observation and attention like Pain Cliffs is.

You find a guide, because otherwise you’ll be dying a lot, and you memorize the path. Done.

If it were challenging/hard content, rather than punishing content, then you wouldn’t need a guide to avoid a hundred deaths.

That might be hard mode for the regular game, but it wouldn’t fit the Zeldathic theme. In fact, the entire reason I don’t like games like that is that they are set up to be nearly identical each time, that the entire challenge of any mode is about learning the route and remembering where to turn, twist, hide, fight, avoid fights, etc.

Again, I think the point here is that the OP doesn’t like the challenge of tribulation mode. That should be okay with them and with us — SAB isn’t for everyone and Tribulation Mode is for a smaller subset.

Just because we don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed or inherently flawed.

tl;dr it’s okay not to like SAB and it’s okay not to like Tribulation Mode. That doesn’t mean they aren’t “hard” and “harder.”

Gonna disagree, but I think we’re just using different ideas of what “hard content” means.

I’m not talking about something you’d get from raids or the like. I’m not asking for truly hardcore content.

I’m just talking about people calling punishing content to be the same as challenging content. Some folks like punishing content – that’s fine and all. I don’t mind it, though I don’t find it enjoyable. I also dislike so many achievement points (over 200) being locked behind such a niche content.

For example, Agemnon.4608’s example of: “Imagine what the developers could do with expansion maps? You’re dodge jumping to a ledge and narrowly make it, then you perform a tight dodge jump around the corner…only to be confronted with the next expansion’s equivalent of shadow reapers and mordrem tormentors? And they’d respawn too.”

That’s punishing content, not challenging, and not necessarily difficult either. And while there are (obviously) some who enjoy that, it is not something that should be considered a “main attraction”. Tribulation mode is considered a primary (well, secondary – but certainly not tetriary) content to SAB, given that the majority of SAB’s rewards (half if not more) are locked behind it.

iirc, production on SAB was stopped because world 2 was considered unpopular by the mass due to the difficulty

cant find the source though =X

SkyShroud.2865:

iirc, production on SAB was stopped because world 2 was considered unpopular by the mass due to the difficulty

cant find the source though =X

I basically linked it above, even if it is not that exact post… it is somewhere in that hidden forum section. You can also probably find Josh’s personal musings on the subject in his personal blog somewhere on the web (not linking that here, because it is as I said his personal blog).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Artemid.3925:

…so what would hard actually look like, to you?

Probably removing (most of) the hidden part of all the traps. As it is, it’s a test of memory, not reflexes or strategy. Not even a test of observation and attention like Pain Cliffs is.

You find a guide, because otherwise you’ll be dying a lot, and you memorize the path. Done.

If it were challenging/hard content, rather than punishing content, then you wouldn’t need a guide to avoid a hundred deaths.

That might be hard mode for the regular game, but it wouldn’t fit the Zeldathic theme. In fact, the entire reason I don’t like games like that is that they are set up to be nearly identical each time, that the entire challenge of any mode is about learning the route and remembering where to turn, twist, hide, fight, avoid fights, etc.

Again, I think the point here is that the OP doesn’t like the challenge of tribulation mode. That should be okay with them and with us — SAB isn’t for everyone and Tribulation Mode is for a smaller subset.

Just because we don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed or inherently flawed.

tl;dr it’s okay not to like SAB and it’s okay not to like Tribulation Mode. That doesn’t mean they aren’t “hard” and “harder.”

Gonna disagree, but I think we’re just using different ideas of what “hard content” means.

I’m not talking about something you’d get from raids or the like. I’m not asking for truly hardcore content.

I’m just talking about people calling punishing content to be the same as challenging content. Some folks like punishing content – that’s fine and all. I don’t mind it, though I don’t find it enjoyable. I also dislike so many achievement points (over 200) being locked behind such a niche content.

For example, Agemnon.4608’s example of: “Imagine what the developers could do with expansion maps? You’re dodge jumping to a ledge and narrowly make it, then you perform a tight dodge jump around the corner…only to be confronted with the next expansion’s equivalent of shadow reapers and mordrem tormentors? And they’d respawn too.”

That’s punishing content, not challenging, and not necessarily difficult either. And while there are (obviously) some who enjoy that, it is not something that should be considered a “main attraction”. Tribulation mode is considered a primary (well, secondary – but certainly not tetriary) content to SAB, given that the majority of SAB’s rewards (half if not more) are locked behind it.

… I fail to see what makes it ‘punishing’ instead of ‘challenging’. Can you enlighten me? There is a challenge in being able to pull off a complex platforming sequence flawlessly while navigating hard-to-see/invisible obstacles.

Sartharina.3542:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Artemid.3925:

…so what would hard actually look like, to you?

Probably removing (most of) the hidden part of all the traps. As it is, it’s a test of memory, not reflexes or strategy. Not even a test of observation and attention like Pain Cliffs is.

You find a guide, because otherwise you’ll be dying a lot, and you memorize the path. Done.

If it were challenging/hard content, rather than punishing content, then you wouldn’t need a guide to avoid a hundred deaths.

That might be hard mode for the regular game, but it wouldn’t fit the Zeldathic theme. In fact, the entire reason I don’t like games like that is that they are set up to be nearly identical each time, that the entire challenge of any mode is about learning the route and remembering where to turn, twist, hide, fight, avoid fights, etc.

Again, I think the point here is that the OP doesn’t like the challenge of tribulation mode. That should be okay with them and with us — SAB isn’t for everyone and Tribulation Mode is for a smaller subset.

Just because we don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s poorly designed or inherently flawed.

tl;dr it’s okay not to like SAB and it’s okay not to like Tribulation Mode. That doesn’t mean they aren’t “hard” and “harder.”

Gonna disagree, but I think we’re just using different ideas of what “hard content” means.

I’m not talking about something you’d get from raids or the like. I’m not asking for truly hardcore content.

I’m just talking about people calling punishing content to be the same as challenging content. Some folks like punishing content – that’s fine and all. I don’t mind it, though I don’t find it enjoyable. I also dislike so many achievement points (over 200) being locked behind such a niche content.

For example, Agemnon.4608’s example of: “Imagine what the developers could do with expansion maps? You’re dodge jumping to a ledge and narrowly make it, then you perform a tight dodge jump around the corner…only to be confronted with the next expansion’s equivalent of shadow reapers and mordrem tormentors? And they’d respawn too.”

That’s punishing content, not challenging, and not necessarily difficult either. And while there are (obviously) some who enjoy that, it is not something that should be considered a “main attraction”. Tribulation mode is considered a primary (well, secondary – but certainly not tetriary) content to SAB, given that the majority of SAB’s rewards (half if not more) are locked behind it.

… I fail to see what makes it ‘punishing’ instead of ‘challenging’. Can you enlighten me? There is a challenge in being able to pull off a complex platforming sequence flawlessly while navigating hard-to-see/invisible obstacles.

I dare say today’s gamer demands their reward on a silver lined plate, but it mustn’t be too easy! That would make it trivi~STOP! That’s too hard! kitten it, you code monkies! Can you not get anything right?! I said I want it all! But I still want to feel exclusive!… Where’s my jewelled sucker?? Lowis! The meatloaf!