Guild Wars 2

After playing through to level 50 I have to say I miss the Trinity. No I don’t miss the long waits for groups and such but I do miss the structure in the form of designated roles.

I’m having fun right now, but the play gets a bit monotonous in dungeons. The rule seems to be kill, die, kill, die, kill, die, kill, die and ultimately win by attrition.

I miss the heroics of a tank coming in to protect the group or a healer getting the tank back up or the DPS burning the mob down at the right time and then support/utility backing the whole process up.

It just seems a bit too one-sided toward ranged. I play a Ranger btw. I wanted to roll a guardian but don’t want to experience frustration.

If guardians could have a bit more HP and some aggro generation would that be such a bad thing?

Thoughts?

I agree on the feeling of victory through attrition – especially when it comes to graveyard zerging. It doesn’t feel very epic to bring a boss down if you died and ran back 3x during the fight.

But the game is young, and I do think a soft trinity will begin to develop as time goes on.

Mark my words, the first addition to new classes they will eventually add to the game will be the monk.

Banewrath.5107:

Mark my words, the first addition to new classes they will eventually add to the game will be the monk.

Priest, maybe.

The game is young and strats haven’t really been developed yet. Right now it seems everybody’s just hell-bent on hitting 80 and graveyard zerging is the fastest way to do it. Nobody (very general term) seems to be taking time to truly learn their profession and function, whether they are damage, control, or support.

Our guild has really just started doing dungeons and the first time through AC in story mode is our base. Now we are going to work on getting through it in exploration mode in the most efficient way possible by determining what function each of us will fill, builds…etc…

We’re not in any hurry and we’re having fun.

Totally disagree. If everyone plays their class well using double taps to dodge/evade attacks, then the run goes well without a bunch of deaths.

Trinity lite already exists, it’s just most PvE’ers aren’t aware of it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Trinity-Lite/first#post87679

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

Banewrath.5107:

Mark my words, the first addition to new classes they will eventually add to the game will be the monk.

Priest, maybe.

Monk is GW’s priest.

And I really could use one. For the concept of a light spellcaster that wears light armor, I mean, I like that the trinity is gone.

My Ele is 53 and has done all the dungeons thus far on storymode and CM on explorable also and my experience has been different. A few deaths but not repeated deaths on one boss. People need to learn their classes and there are strategies. If you’re zerg death rushing and ignoring the versatility of each class and the multitude of strategies and ways to approach a dungeon, that’s not Anet’s fault. It’s a different game and one I find quite fun, it just takes some getting used to. Definitely requires more thought and skill than the trinity setup and is certainly offers a more varied dungeon experience instead of the same thing every time.

strange how I see a lot of people not doing this and still being succesful in boss fights. Most deaths I see are the same people dying over and over again in the same place. Stop playing it like you played that other game instead of insisting it has to turn into that environment. Seriously, why are you guys so insistent on turning this game into one of the million games that are still out there?

I think if they got rid of graveyard rushing it’d force people to see how much depth this game truly has. For right now, you’re not punished hard enough for playing like an idiot.

Keep preaching the truth, supporters of the GW2 way, as the message must be getting through at least a little: this time it’s been called “lite”.

actually, it is no fun at all partaking in these threads all the time, but I do not like a vocal minority giving the dev team wrong impressions and have the game turned into their beloved wow-clone.

wait, you want them to make the game more generic, less innovative & more restrictive because you don’t know how to play with the new system?

No.

I think most people are so conditioned to the Trinity mentality to dungeoning from other MMOs that they don’t stop and think about how to approach each battle in a more thoughtful and coordinated way. Everyone is in a rush and impatient and so the zerg is what people do. Let the game spank them for their impatience. After a while they will learn. That is not to say that dungeon encounters cannot be improved but that improvement will likely have to wait until people stop zerging and try other approaches first.

I already tank for groups as a Guardian.

What is a tank? It is a person who stops the mobs from attacking other people, and is able to soak/absorb the damage that the mob is putting out.

With Walls, and Barriers you can prohibit mob movement quite effectively. With the Aegis Boon, and Blind Condition you can absorb quite a lot of damage. Focusing on specific skills such as Aegis and Blind in your traits, and gearing up for Toughness and Vitality you are in effect, a tank.

Weapon swap to a Hammer, or a Staff will give you the ability to prohibit mob movement. You can think of this as a type of “taunt” because if the mob cannot get to its target, it will turn and attack you instead.

Healers in general are still around too, they just take on different forms. Any class that can remove conditions, toss out the Regeneration Boon, and Blind Condition will significantly negate a large amount of damage done to the “tank” or anyone else for that matter.

When zerging an instance with a PUG of people that all want to just spam their abilities, you will graveyard zerg over and over. But if you have 1 or 2 people that understand how mob control works things go SO much smoother.

Kindread.9481:

I already tank for groups as a Guardian.

What is a tank? It is a person who stops the mobs from attacking other people, and is able to soak/absorb the damage that the mob is putting out.

With Walls, and Barriers you can prohibit mob movement quite effectively. With the Aegis Boon, and Blind Condition you can absorb quite a lot of damage. Focusing on specific skills such as Aegis and Blind in your traits, and gearing up for Toughness and Vitality you are in effect, a tank.

Weapon swap to a Hammer, or a Staff will give you the ability to prohibit mob movement. You can think of this as a type of “taunt” because if the mob cannot get to its target, it will turn and attack you instead.

Healers in general are still around too, they just take on different forms. Any class that can remove conditions, toss out the Regeneration Boon, and Blind Condition will significantly negate a large amount of damage done to the “tank” or anyone else for that matter.

When zerging an instance with a PUG of people that all want to just spam their abilities, you will graveyard zerg over and over. But if you have 1 or 2 people that understand how mob control works things go SO much smoother.

Well-said.

As I’ve stated before…it’s mainly because people refuse to learn how to play their character correctly in this game.

Waypoc.6125:

I’m having fun right now, but the play gets a bit monotonous in dungeons. The rule seems to be kill, die, kill, die, kill, die, kill, die and ultimately win by attrition.

Strange. When you’re a healer it is “heal, heal, heal, heal, heal” or a DPS “hit, hit, hit, hit, hit” or a tank “omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, heal mekittenit, omg going down”

Nothing much different I believe.

If it is kill die kill die for you, you’re doing something wrong. For example, as a guardian I am, it is “hit, hit, run, run omg it comes, check boons, check allies, alright tome of courage we’re so screwed, dazedazedaze oh yeah here it goes now, light of deliverance do not fail me!” and so on for me.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of assuming that because the Trinity has been pretty much the only form of tactical cooperation in so many games that it’s the only possible one that’s out there.

Which isn’t the case at all. There are many different roles that players can assume, not just in GW2 but in a lot of games, and many different ways those roles can fit together.

As other people have said the problem at the moment is the majority of people haven’t really learnt how their profession works, and a lot haven’t even tried because they’ve been too busy rushing to level 80. Given time more people will learn and settle into the different roles they can play and people will work out tactics for making them work together.

Shootsfoot.9276:

The game is young and strats haven’t really been developed yet. Right now it seems everybody’s just hell-bent on hitting 80 and graveyard zerging is the fastest way to do it.

Excellent points. Plus people haven’t been playing the game long enough to figure out strategies that are much more than zerging. I’m looking forward to seeing how people are doing dungeons in a few months.

We’re not in any hurry and we’re having fun.

This has been my mantra every time I log on It’s been serving me very well and I think it’s greatly contributed to the enjoyment I’ve been getting from the game.

Basically, people want someone to be their tank so they aren’t attacked and someone to be healer for when the tank loses aggro and they get hit or from aoe damage.

Alternatively they could stop standing in the fire and spamming buttons whilst wishing GW2 had recount.

I melee as a guardian. I have to move a lot and dodge and sometimes go range, but Jesus it is fun.

Honestly, the “Trinity Lite” that you speak of is already in the game. Properly specced warriors and guardians can be very effective at protecting their allies. Similarly guardians with another spec and other classes like elementalist, necromancer or engineer can spec to do some solid healing to their allies. Any closer to having roles and it would be a holy trinity.

From Anthony Ordon:

A common mistake that I’ve seen people make with guardians is assuming that they should be taking damage for other people. In my experiences, absorbing damage with your hit points is about the worst way to play defensively (second only to trying to heal people who are doing this).
For guardian, make sure to give consideration to the abilities that proactively mitigate, prevent, or better yet, reflect damage. These are harder to get right because they require more precise timing. But it feels really great when you plop down that wall of reflection, and return that blast of whatever for thousands of damage to the thing that threw it at you.

This game does have trinity light, in my experience.

Though it’s not a Tank/Damage/Heal trinity, it’s a Support/Damage/Soak trinity.

Kindread.9481:

I already tank for groups as a Guardian.

^ This. I basically play as a tanky support on my Warrior. I bring Mace/Warhorn (with Longbow swap for when I need damage or need to back up to save myself). I bring Healing Signet, Banner of Defense and Battle Standard, then either two offensive banners or “For Great Justice” and “Shake It Off” if I need extra condition removal. With traits in Defense and Tactics, I can bring quite a bit of healing, defensive support, and offensive buffs.

I then focus in battle on keeping up a banner and shout when it’s useful, and try to engage dangerous targets in melee so I can interrupt or block them, and keep Weakness up on them. I really think Weakness is under-rated. It’s a sizeable hit to the enemy’s DPS, and with Mace applying it every third autoattack, and Warhorn granting an AoE Weakness effect, it’s pretty easy to keep up on a target. When I start to take too much damage, or if we need more damage ourselves, I switch to Longbow which gives me a huge combo field on my burst skill that I can self-combo for an AoE might buff, and the ability to blind or immobilize enemies.

With Healing Signet on, I’ve found that I can hold enemy attention well and debuff them with weakness, and when I get low I just dodge roll out, switch to Longbow, and someone else is able to distract them while I passively heal up, then jump back in.

There already is a Trinity Lite. The first run I did of AC, we were all damage geared and damage specced, except an Ele with some Water traits (but damage gear), and we did pretty terrible against the trash. But the second time I went, I was built like I said above, with another Water specced Ele and a Mesmer that was great at kiting when I needed to duck out, and we didn’t wipe at all.

I personally think that dps is boring as kitten, but from a numbers standpoint support isn’t as effective. You can build a support character, but you are kittening your team when you do that. Gw2 is all about dps, with a wee bit of support and control tacked on to everyone. I don’t think Anet should change that, as I respect their vision of the game, but I don’t particularly enjoy it. I’m going to be playing as close to pure support as possible because that is what I enjoy. It’d be nice if I wasn’t also screwing over my side, but at the end of the day I play to have fun. I also enjoy the irony of a support player being a detriment to the team.

Do you miss waiting 2 hours shouting “looking for tank” also? How people forget the bad parts…

Deadpoint.4751:

I personally think that dps is boring as kitten, but from a numbers standpoint support isn’t as effective. You can build a support character, but you are kittening your team when you do that. Gw2 is all about dps, with a wee bit of support and control tacked on to everyone. I don’t think Anet should change that, as I respect their vision of the game, but I don’t particularly enjoy it. I’m going to be playing as close to pure support as possible because that is what I enjoy. It’d be nice if I wasn’t also screwing over my side, but at the end of the day I play to have fun. I also enjoy the irony of a support player being a detriment to the team.

I dunno man, there are some nasty support and control guardian builds that are wrecking in tournament play right now. Staff and Hammer with 30% boon duration from runes.

I’m sure they’d be decent enough builds in PvE as well as they’re all about boon stacking and enemy control.

This game doesn’t need any sort of “trinity lite” or any other sort “trinity” system at all. Aside from the fact that the “holy trinity” is the epitome of bad game design, none of the encounters in the game require it, and it would involve an entire reworking of all the game’s mechanics to even be viable.

The game is great partially due to the lack of the hackneyed and poorly designed “trinity” system that infects most MMORPGs, the last thing that needs to happen is such a massive step backwards in gameplay and design.

Shillen.1723:

Do you miss waiting 2 hours shouting “looking for tank” also? How people forget the bad parts…

I rather do that, than playing a mega boring dungeon where everyone is just rolling their heads on their keyboards like zombies until they completed it.. A game is about fun, looking for groups in my opinion was not bad at all! it means that the dungeon is hard and you are looking for experienced players to clear it.

CoRtex.2157:

Shillen.1723:

Do you miss waiting 2 hours shouting “looking for tank” also? How people forget the bad parts…

I rather do that, than playing a mega boring dungeon where everyone is just rolling their heads on their keyboards like zombies until they completed it.. A game is about fun, looking for groups in my opinion was not bad at all! it means that the dungeon is hard and you are looking for experienced players to clear it.

+1
People seem to fail to realize why the trinity system was so widely used: because it’s efficient. Everyone knows what their job is and is [usually] good at it.

But there is a “lite trinity”, in dungeons you need to make and strategy, separating roles:

Full dps <→ Support(boons&conditions) <→ Control (kiting)

Some maybe could be Support+Control …

I want a tirinity,, without that, anyone can be replaced by anyone, and people wanna feel special when they are in a group. Creating a new tirinity isn’t that hard. For example you could take for dungeons: Tank(REAL TANKS)/Support(remove cond. +heal +protection)/DPS/Stealthers(so tank gets all aggro)/Runners(create objectives in the dungeons that require run-builds(like GW1 assassins, SoO)) … and just make sure that only that is their job and don’t make them DPS cus that SUCKS! also we shouldn’t follow a surten path inside a dungeon, gw1 fow/uw was way better as a dungeon system.

I think TERA have the best tank system so far with Lancer, where you can activly block with the shield when ever they want. Anet should improve on that.

I also believe the game needs a decent threat system.

Fleshgrinder.6724:

I dunno man, there are some nasty support and control guardian builds that are wrecking in tournament play right now. Staff and Hammer with 30% boon duration from runes.

I’m sure they’d be decent enough builds in PvE as well as they’re all about boon stacking and enemy control.

Could you point me to some of those builds, and maybe some streams? All I really care about is pvp.

ropestar.7645:

Trinity lite already exists, it’s just most PvE’ers aren’t aware of it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Trinity-Lite/first#post87679

Because it’s not required at all.

Banewrath.5107:

Mark my words, the first addition to new classes they will eventually add to the game will be the monk.

Guardian already does the Monk’s job, only in plate armor. They would be far too similar.

Deadpoint.4751:

Fleshgrinder.6724:

I dunno man, there are some nasty support and control guardian builds that are wrecking in tournament play right now. Staff and Hammer with 30% boon duration from runes.

I’m sure they’d be decent enough builds in PvE as well as they’re all about boon stacking and enemy control.

Could you point me to some of those builds, and maybe some streams? All I really care about is pvp.

Lots of guys posting their streams in the Guardian sPvP forums, just look for guys doing hammer/staff, the build is listed in one of the stickies in that forum.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Banewrath.5107:

Mark my words, the first addition to new classes they will eventually add to the game will be the monk.

Guardian already does the Monk’s job, only in plate armor. They would be far too similar.

Not really, all the healing skills were put on long cooldowns on purpose to make you focus on dodging. You cannot compare the monk and guardian classes together even by a longshot.

and a post like that shows exactly that people cant see over the “almighty trinity”. Its a really sad thing, cause it just gets into the way of progressing new gameplay >.<
I agree that gw2 isn’t the superb uber game and that the trinity should be forgotten instantly, but its a step in the right direction (or rather new direction).

why cant people just adapt? there is so much q.q going on and most of it is just cause people dont get in their heads that as a warrior i cannot stand in front of a champ mop and “tank” it for my team. the champion mop will look at the warri, wait the 5 secs for shield stance to run out and do a fine hulk smash and the warri’s gone… and then the warri runs to the forums “q.q warri is kitten” / “q.q where is my holy trinity” …
there is no trinity and gw2 and (hopefully) there will never be one. Even the “full support guardians” (dont know if thats a build or something but i had played with a few guys calling themselves that way) who come closest to the tank / healer guy cant tank the boss for the whole fight (which of course 99% wont believe)

gw2 atm is about kiting (especially in dungeons) if the boss runs towards you, u run away from it, speedboost yourself, cripple the boss until it tries to kill someone else and the whole game start from the beginning. its about movement. the dodge roll is not just for show it has a use which 99% of the players (especiall warriors) dont get (at least thats the opionion that i have when play dungeons)

and again, i dont say, that this “i kite till u die”-system is the new meta, but its definitely a step into a new era of gaming. so just get over your q.q, take defensive / appropiate utility skills and KITE and therefore adapt into the world of gw2
and maybe in a few years we have some new way of gaming, which fuses the almighty holy trinity and this dynamic kiting gameplay together into some new awesome things.

just my (little harsh) opinion =) feel free to criticize

It seems what is required is that it is an overall effort to heal, mitigate damage, while also doing damage.

I am not sure if certain damage mitigation abilities stack with other professions though or heals over time do also. There is a lot that hasn’t been addressed thoroughly it seems.

But basically what I am saying is that everyone needs to help the entire group avoid damage, remove conditions, and heal in order to get through the content with ease. Focusing targets are also important as well (Control + T focuses your target, other players can simply press T to aquire this target). CC is also necessary it seems in order to help avoid damage.

Shillen.1723:

Do you miss waiting 2 hours shouting “looking for tank” also? How people forget the bad parts…

Nope, I always played the tank

The trinity is such a lazy design that promotes lazy gameplay (stand in one spot and let the other guy soak damage, deal damage or heal damage). It doesn’t promote teamwork when your whole team does one incredibly narrow thing all the time and never does anything else, or even have the opportunity to do anything else.

The only people I can really see wanting the trinity back are Obnoxious Tank Player, that one guy that constantly brags about how difficult it is to stand in one spot and mash the number row and “hold aggro” (oh wow, it’s so skillful to put on a passive taunt ability that makes you automatically hold all aggro) and how he’s the “best tank ever” and “carries the team” blah blah blah. I am so glad that each player is responsible for his/her own survival, so that we don’t have to deal with Obnoxious Tank Player ever again.

A big fat no thanks to the lazy boring “trinity” garbage.

SeraVerte.2640:

CoRtex.2157:

Shillen.1723:

Do you miss waiting 2 hours shouting “looking for tank” also? How people forget the bad parts…

I rather do that, than playing a mega boring dungeon where everyone is just rolling their heads on their keyboards like zombies until they completed it.. A game is about fun, looking for groups in my opinion was not bad at all! it means that the dungeon is hard and you are looking for experienced players to clear it.

+1
People seem to fail to realize why the trinity system was so widely used: because it’s efficient. Everyone knows what their job is and is [usually] good at it.

I have to disagree. I prefer being able to call up friends and just doing a dungeon without having to wait on lfg for hours.

I feel the game isn’t lacking the trinity, it’s lacking voice communication. Although the game doesn’t force you to have a specific class. It does not incourage pug grouping. I’m fine with explorable mode being difficult. But storymode should be enjoyable and when done with a pug it feels like a meat grinder.

I really hope they don’t add a healing class because it would affect pvp so much, especially structured. What I do hope is they introduce a form of voice communication into the game.