Guild Wars 2

I’m a bit amazed that something like Triple Trouble even made it live because there is so much about this event that screams, “not appropriate for a world boss setup.” There are so many ways to fail this event, that it requires some pretty series organization. The in game chat is inadequate for making a successful TT happen and that is a sign that the event was improperly designed as a world boss

The requirements needed to even have shot at a successful Triple Trouble completion, leads to the first set off hurdles that makes this event extremely frustrating. Since so much organization is required, a player has to first find a map where a fairly large and organized guild has decided to attempt to this event. Such maps tend to fill up quickly, so if you can’t manage to get into one, you’re out of luck. This also has the nasty element, where attempting TT is essentially off the table for some most of the week (for instance EVOS is well know for TT attempts, but the times they choose to run the event just don’t work with my schedule for most of the week).

Now let’s say you do manage to get on a map, where there is a chance at succeeding. That’s awesome, except there are so many ways for the event to fail. For starters, you could get the EVOS map, but have too many people that are either AFK or refuse to take part in the event. Everyone on the map could take part in the event, but it still fails because either too many people gravitate towards one head or since this is open world, you get enough people that just aren’t geared enough (This seems to be one of the most stringent world bosses, when it comes to dps). Even with a good map, everyone organized and geared well enough, there are so many thing that could toast the whole thing. Maybe one of the condi teams drops the ball or something happens and one group gets overrun by adds. Have enough people drop the ball with Harpoons at amber and miss a burn phase. Get bad add placement at cobalt that prevent people from getting the powder kegs where they need to be. Crimson can also have a similar problem with bad add placement. Finally, even if you do decapitate all three heads, get someone away from the wall, that then draws aggro and the attempt is hosed.

Worse, this all creates a vicious cycle. Given the high chance of failure, many players that get the achievements, have very little incentive to go back because the rewards just aren’t worth it and I don’t blame. I really wish Anet would revisit it and tune it to work with the reality of an open world event. The rewards don’t need to be better, that’s not the issue. The issue is this is incredibly unfriendly to the idea of a PUG and that’s counterproductive design for a world boss.

If you think Triple Trouble is hard, try Chak Gerent in Tangled Depths xD
TT has at least a high success rate for organized attempts.

Note that almost all TT achievements can be reached by only doing one head, which should be doable without too much organization.

Maybe try TTS? I think they mentioned doing it at multiple times. Although they have at least one overlap with EVOS at around 3am EST.

I tried TT for the very first time only this week and it was one EVOS were running. The commander running the head I ended up doing (wasn’t going to do the event at all; mapping at level) was very clear with instructions and I’m going to assume the others were as well because the whole thing went off very smoothly. It seemed, anyway.

I know you said they run when you can’t get on OP but for anyone else that guild is well worth looking out for. I have almost zero time for PvE commanders but these guys were good.

Sorry to hear you have had difficulties. Just happened to stumble upon it (first time since once at release) and just followed a group of people. I don’t use Map Chat, so no instructions…just saw what others were doing, and did that, as well.

Other than the long wait between …something, no idea what we were waiting on after it started…it went well. Got some Achievements and loot and chests, etc.

Maybe, you have just been unlucky. I hope that changes.

I’ve tried TT a couple of times and was very disappointed. I’ll have to watch for these guilds mentioned, because my experience left a very bad taste in my mouth for this boss. There was one person with a commander tag who was leading people on a wild goose chase and then laughing about it. Other than that, there was no one to give instructions; just people griping about all the “noobs messing everything up”. The whole thing was insanely disorganized, strung out, spread out, and needless to say, failed miserably.
*edited for clarity

For the amount of effort it requires to get a triple decap, the rewards are surprisingly lackluster.

Tequatl is both simpler and awards the same, if not more loot.

The mega server makes this the most frustrating for me. I’d love to do the event but every time guildies want to organizes it it’s hard to get a map impossible to get a map to get everyone on and most of the time I get shut out with message telling me it’s full literally seconds after the taxi begins. To make things worse the run before my last where we successfully defeated one of the heads got bugged out and left me and many others without loot. ;/

I don’t think this event is a problem. The guilds have worked out the details and do a good job of supplying the expertise on how to defeat the worm.

It is true however that you have no chance without this organization. I don’t think that’s a bad thing though. It is a social game after all.

Chak Gerant just takes this to a bit higher level. But the fact is that people are beating it.

It’s a big rush when you beat something like Chak Gerant. I’d hate for it to get nerfed and lose that feeling of accomplishment.

Mill.9758:

I’m a bit amazed that something like Triple Trouble even made it live because there is so much about this event that screams, “not appropriate for a world boss setup.” There are so many ways to fail this event, that it requires some pretty series organization. The in game chat is inadequate for making a successful TT happen and that is a sign that the event was improperly designed as a world boss

The requirements needed to even have shot at a successful Triple Trouble completion, leads to the first set off hurdles that makes this event extremely frustrating. Since so much organization is required, a player has to first find a map where a fairly large and organized guild has decided to attempt to this event. Such maps tend to fill up quickly, so if you can’t manage to get into one, you’re out of luck. This also has the nasty element, where attempting TT is essentially off the table for some most of the week (for instance EVOS is well know for TT attempts, but the times they choose to run the event just don’t work with my schedule for most of the week).

Now let’s say you do manage to get on a map, where there is a chance at succeeding. That’s awesome, except there are so many ways for the event to fail. For starters, you could get the EVOS map, but have too many people that are either AFK or refuse to take part in the event. Everyone on the map could take part in the event, but it still fails because either too many people gravitate towards one head or since this is open world, you get enough people that just aren’t geared enough (This seems to be one of the most stringent world bosses, when it comes to dps). Even with a good map, everyone organized and geared well enough, there are so many thing that could toast the whole thing. Maybe one of the condi teams drops the ball or something happens and one group gets overrun by adds. Have enough people drop the ball with Harpoons at amber and miss a burn phase. Get bad add placement at cobalt that prevent people from getting the powder kegs where they need to be. Crimson can also have a similar problem with bad add placement. Finally, even if you do decapitate all three heads, get someone away from the wall, that then draws aggro and the attempt is hosed.

Worse, this all creates a vicious cycle. Given the high chance of failure, many players that get the achievements, have very little incentive to go back because the rewards just aren’t worth it and I don’t blame. I really wish Anet would revisit it and tune it to work with the reality of an open world event. The rewards don’t need to be better, that’s not the issue. The issue is this is incredibly unfriendly to the idea of a PUG and that’s counterproductive design for a world boss.

Several legit points, especially on design of the bosses and the vicious cycle point.

Here’s where we disagree:

1. ArenaNet never intended this boss to be easy. While the argument was made that since this is open-world, it should be “PUG-able”, the question becomes whose definition of “PUG-able”?

EVOS has shown consistently that you can organize PUGs to complete TT regularly. Where I feel you’ve missed the point is where you conflated the difficulty of the boss and the requirement of organization, with “PUG-ability”.

I feel “PUG-ability” doesn’t = can be done without organization at all.

2. I just got my 8th Pile of Regurgitated Armor from TT yesterday, on top of another 2 more named Ascended Armor Boxes in total from my entire GW2 career. And I don’t do TT everyday. If you can’t get into an organized map regularly, trust me, it’s more your problem than the organizers’.

I’ve been in these guilds long enough to see time and again people complaining how they can never get into these organized maps. These guilds have a fixed protocol and routine when setting up for TT. You just need to learn them and you’ll know exactly when and where to show up to almost guarantee yourself a spot on their instances.

You have my sympathies for the fact that organized runs don’t suit your personal schedule well, but really no one in this game is owed anything. ArenaNet doesn’t owe you rewards. Organizing guilds don’t owe you a spot on their instances. If you want to complete a difficult event, you learn how to do it. If you need numbers, you learn when and where to find it, if you want numbers as and when you do, you learn how to organize them.

I’m a member of both EVOS and TTS, and I can tell you they are more than willing to recruit leaders who can organize additional TT runs. If you want it badly enough, you’ll learn to organize these raids and lead them at time slots that better suit your schedule.

3. The RNG aspects of Crimson and Cobalt are legit points, though minor I feel. Your points about players AFK-ing, unbalanced distribution of people across the wurms, condi teams not controlling the husks well, dropping harpoons, leading the decapped wurm head astray; I’m sorry but all these are learn-to-play issues. If you need to point your finger at something to blame, it isn’t ArenaNet and their designs at getting people to work together, you have to blame human nature.

If you do Silverwastes, then you know what I’m talking about. Selfish players all clustering at south path hoping to get two kills or some other reason. Or people at Verdant Brink refusing to move to defend another camp when the one they’re at already has more than enough people. One thing is constant for all difficult open world content: if everyone is selfish and refuses to play ball, listen to commanders and cooperate and work for each other, then everyone loses.

Some of the points you raised really have nothing to do with ArenaNet. You need to focus more of your frustration on selfish players who refuse to cooperate for the good of everyone.

zenleto.6179:

I tried TT for the very first time only this week and it was one EVOS were running. The commander running the head I ended up doing (wasn’t going to do the event at all; mapping at level) was very clear with instructions and I’m going to assume the others were as well because the whole thing went off very smoothly. It seemed, anyway.

I know you said they run when you can’t get on OP but for anyone else that guild is well worth looking out for. I have almost zero time for PvE commanders but these guys were good.

I belong to Evos. It’s an awesome guild.

TT is not made for PUGs but you can find lot of guilds/open community’s that do it daily ^^

Killface.1896:

TT is not made for PUGs but you can find lot of guilds/open community’s that do it daily ^^

It actually is made for pugs, which is what causes so many problems.

Vayne.8563:

zenleto.6179:

I tried TT for the very first time only this week and it was one EVOS were running. The commander running the head I ended up doing (wasn’t going to do the event at all; mapping at level) was very clear with instructions and I’m going to assume the others were as well because the whole thing went off very smoothly. It seemed, anyway.

I know you said they run when you can’t get on OP but for anyone else that guild is well worth looking out for. I have almost zero time for PvE commanders but these guys were good.

I belong to Evos. It’s an awesome guild.

Nice one. Pass on my compliments if you haven’t already. I really enjoyed the way it was run.

Mill.9758:

~~~ snip ~~~

Welcome to Guild Wars 2. The Great Wurm event is Elite level content that was purposely designed to be for only highly organized groups. It’s not meant to be easily beaten with random pugs like the Shatterer or the Shadow Behemoth. Even highly organized groups can fail Triple Trouble.

Doggie.3184:

Killface.1896:

TT is not made for PUGs but you can find lot of guilds/open community’s that do it daily ^^

It actually is made for pugs, which is what causes so many problems.

No, what is causing so many problems is players having a warped sense of expectation. Is this event open to PUGs? Unquestionably, yes. Is this event meant to be completed without organization. Hell, no.

If players aren’t willing to put in the effort to learn, organize or just bloody follow instructions, then stop whining about the difficulty.

TT really isn’t all that difficult and there are plenty of guides available to assist in properly setting up. You only really need three commanders who know what they’re doing and explain what to do for those that do not know.

The only part about Triple Trouble that isn’t world-group appropriate is the simultaneous-kill portion. Otherwise, the event objectives are somewhat easy to grasp. Execution is harder, but that’s a skill challenge.

Even the simultaneous-kill objective isn’t so difficult with attentive players and commanders. It’s still not appropriate, but it requires just paying attention and coordinating.

The three wurms, individually and collectively are still on my TODO list, especially now that they are worth mastery points. I’ve had a couple of PUG attempts, both of which started with “we haven’t got enough people so let’s just do one head” then degenerated into an argument about which head. Most folks eventually focussed on one head but the fail was so utterly spectacular it felt like it should have qualified for an achievement in itself. So, yeah, a tough one for PUGs.

Rauderi.8706:

The only part about Triple Trouble that isn’t world-group appropriate is the simultaneous-kill portion. Otherwise, the event objectives are somewhat easy to grasp. Execution is harder, but that’s a skill challenge.

Even the simultaneous-kill objective isn’t so difficult with attentive players and commanders. It’s still not appropriate, but it requires just paying attention and coordinating.

I initially would have agreed except people have been consistently succeeding the AB meta which requires synchronized kills.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

The only part about Triple Trouble that isn’t world-group appropriate is the simultaneous-kill portion. Otherwise, the event objectives are somewhat easy to grasp. Execution is harder, but that’s a skill challenge.

Even the simultaneous-kill objective isn’t so difficult with attentive players and commanders. It’s still not appropriate, but it requires just paying attention and coordinating.

I initially would have agreed except people have been consistently succeeding the AB meta which requires synchronized kills.

I wondered about that, too. Honestly, I expected a lot more trolling and drama there.

I suppose if everyone doing TT would know what to do, and had good dps gear, TT would be really easy.

The only thing wrong with the event is the low amount of rewards. The difficulty could be a bit higher if you ask me.

Malediktus.9250:

The only thing wrong with the event is the low amount of rewards. The difficulty could be a bit higher if you ask me.

I agree. At least make it in line with Teq.

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

The only part about Triple Trouble that isn’t world-group appropriate is the simultaneous-kill portion. Otherwise, the event objectives are somewhat easy to grasp. Execution is harder, but that’s a skill challenge.

Even the simultaneous-kill objective isn’t so difficult with attentive players and commanders. It’s still not appropriate, but it requires just paying attention and coordinating.

I initially would have agreed except people have been consistently succeeding the AB meta which requires synchronized kills.

I have to agree that most of the HoT meta content can be done outside of a guild with psedo-PuG groups. The only one that seems to fail most of the time is the Tangled Depths meta. Only because there are still certain sections of that meta that is still bugged, and the lanes are a bit confusing for people to understand. Primarily due to the map layout.

Speaking of map layout. Triple Trouble is hard to follow for some people because the notification of what is going on in this open-world split meta without lanes is almost nonexistent. Some people don’t even know the event is even going on or don’t know where to go after the event starts. This was fine for the revamped Tequatl event, due to it being confined to one section of the map.

Triple Trouble was A-net’s experiment to see how far after Tequatl they could push things. Unfortunately it pushed things to a point where only a few selective guilds do this event. Or sometimes a random PuG group can lop off one wurm head. I think Triple Trouble would benefit from some of the HoT meta lessons. Including all of those nifty UI notifications on screen or on the minimap, so people no where to go and what to do. For instance have something like Dragon Stand’s UI player check system for each of the crusaders set up 5-10 minutes before the event starts. So people know they need to split up.

The only time I seen TT being a sucess at all is when that guild are organising it which I have grown to dispise due to their TS elitism (only letting in those who have teamspeak, what about the people who don’t have it). In saying so even when non TS people do try to run it, it still a failure so I guess TS is kinda vital for TT (yes it make me a hypocrite).

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

The only part about Triple Trouble that isn’t world-group appropriate is the simultaneous-kill portion. Otherwise, the event objectives are somewhat easy to grasp. Execution is harder, but that’s a skill challenge.

Even the simultaneous-kill objective isn’t so difficult with attentive players and commanders. It’s still not appropriate, but it requires just paying attention and coordinating.

I initially would have agreed except people have been consistently succeeding the AB meta which requires synchronized kills.

That’s anecdotal, honestly. I’ve seen Tarir fail, spectacularly, every time I’ve been there so far.
There’s a number of contributors. Map population is the most obvious. Some of the tasks in quadrants are much easier than others. Glider bombs on one side, easy to avoid enemies and get the objective in place. On another, push-bombs, which requires very specific weapons/classes that have low cooldown movement-CCs, and the grounds are littered with obnoxious mobs. So one side gets done well ahead, and the others lag behind.
The saving grace is the two-minute grace period, which requires the same level of coordination as Triple. It’s up in the air if leaving a finished section even helps, since 1) scaling, and 2) Tarir is so friggin’ big, you can’t get around without waypoints, which have a habit of being locked.

But, eh, that’s Tarir. Topic is Triple, and I’ve said what little there is to say on it. And other people are going to mention rewards, which ANet always has (triple?) trouble with.

Renkencen.6127:

The only time I seen TT being a sucess at all is when that guild are organising it which I have grown to dispise due to their TS elitism (only letting in those who have teamspeak, what about the people who don’t have it). In saying so even when non TS people do try to run it, it still a failure so I guess TS is kinda vital for TT (yes it make me a hypocrite).

It’s easier to use TS than to type out and so many people getting tunnel vision and don’t read the chat. You also get faster responses as you don’t have to rely on the speed of those typing and the speed of players reading.

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rauderi.8706:

The only part about Triple Trouble that isn’t world-group appropriate is the simultaneous-kill portion. Otherwise, the event objectives are somewhat easy to grasp. Execution is harder, but that’s a skill challenge.

Even the simultaneous-kill objective isn’t so difficult with attentive players and commanders. It’s still not appropriate, but it requires just paying attention and coordinating.

I initially would have agreed except people have been consistently succeeding the AB meta which requires synchronized kills.

That’s anecdotal, honestly. I’ve seen Tarir fail, spectacularly, every time I’ve been there so far.
There’s a number of contributors. Map population is the most obvious. Some of the tasks in quadrants are much easier than others. Glider bombs on one side, easy to avoid enemies and get the objective in place. On another, push-bombs, which requires very specific weapons/classes that have low cooldown movement-CCs, and the grounds are littered with obnoxious mobs. So one side gets done well ahead, and the others lag behind.
The saving grace is the two-minute grace period, which requires the same level of coordination as Triple. It’s up in the air if leaving a finished section even helps, since 1) scaling, and 2) Tarir is so friggin’ big, you can’t get around without waypoints, which have a habit of being locked.

But, eh, that’s Tarir. Topic is Triple, and I’ve said what little there is to say on it. And other people are going to mention rewards, which ANet always has (triple?) trouble with.

Not really anecdotal. Both require synchronized killing with a timer to kill the others once the first is downed. You’re focusing on the differences which have nothing to do with them needing to be killed within a certain timeframe of each other.

Ayrilana.1396:

Not really anecdotal. Both require synchronized killing with a timer to kill the others once the first is downed. You’re focusing on the differences which have nothing to do with them needing to be killed within a certain timeframe of each other.

It’s still not all that appropriate. Parallel that with the old Defiance stacks. One person out of sync could screw that up for 70 other people. Ends up being similar with Trips/Tarir. Enough people who are unaware and just playing the game can fail the event. Same with Tequatl and the cannons, honestly, but with that boss on farm, there’s usually enough people there early enough to camp the cannons.
It’s the ability of a minority to flummox the majority of the event that bothers me. The community proves it can be done, but I don’t agree with it as a world-boss mechanic, especially for situations for low population maps and “waiting to have fun” by taxi.

My achievements are a bit of a mess, I don’t have any heads killed yet I was part of Desolations World First TT kill.

Haven’t done it since due to lack of people. The scaling seems off.

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

Not really anecdotal. Both require synchronized killing with a timer to kill the others once the first is downed. You’re focusing on the differences which have nothing to do with them needing to be killed within a certain timeframe of each other.

It’s still not all that appropriate. Parallel that with the old Defiance stacks. One person out of sync could screw that up for 70 other people. Ends up being similar with Trips/Tarir. Enough people who are unaware and just playing the game can fail the event. Same with Tequatl and the cannons, honestly, but with that boss on farm, there’s usually enough people there early enough to camp the cannons.
It’s the ability of a minority to flummox the majority of the event that bothers me. The community proves it can be done, but I don’t agree with it as a world-boss mechanic, especially for situations for low population maps and “waiting to have fun” by taxi.

It is appropriate. You brought up that it was not world boss appropriate because of the simultaneous kill portion. Both require that yet you’re holding AB to a different standard.

Ayrilana.1396:

It is appropriate. You brought up that it was not world boss appropriate because of the simultaneous kill portion. Both require that yet you’re holding AB to a different standard.

I am? Figured it was pretty clear. Simultaneous kills are not appropriate world content.

Well, somewhat. Just about anything can be appropriate if it’s conveyed properly. It’s been a while since I’ve done Trips, so I can’t recall if it states the simul-kill up front the way it does for Tarir.

Which leads to the lawl-worthy question of “Do players read event text?”

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

It is appropriate. You brought up that it was not world boss appropriate because of the simultaneous kill portion. Both require that yet you’re holding AB to a different standard.

I am? Figured it was pretty clear. Simultaneous kills are not appropriate world content.

Well, somewhat. Just about anything can be appropriate if it’s conveyed properly. It’s been a while since I’ve done Trips, so I can’t recall if it states the simul-kill up front the way it does for Tarir.

Which leads to the lawl-worthy question of “Do players read event text?”

This is one subject we likely will not agree on. I don’t see why something requiring synchronized kills can’t be considered a world boss. It just, in my opinion, comes off as world bosses should be stack and spam auto attack.

There are many players that don’t read. I have seen people asking when something starts while the event meta tag is on the screen with a countdown timer. Boss/event tags give hints to the boss mechanics which people choose not to read.

I usually don’t play with map chat on.

re: TS elitism (only letting in those who have teamspeak, what about the people who don’t have it) – The Teamspeak client is free. And it really is a better way to coordinate than typed chat.

Renkencen.6127:

The only time I seen TT being a sucess at all is when that guild are organising it which I have grown to dispise due to their TS elitism (only letting in those who have teamspeak, what about the people who don’t have it). In saying so even when non TS people do try to run it, it still a failure so I guess TS is kinda vital for TT (yes it make me a hypocrite).

Is only because theres so much that can go wrong and is faster to dish out comands over voice coms.

Sylum.1806:

Doggie.3184:

Killface.1896:

TT is not made for PUGs but you can find lot of guilds/open community’s that do it daily ^^

It actually is made for pugs, which is what causes so many problems.

No, what is causing so many problems is players having a warped sense of expectation. Is this event open to PUGs? Unquestionably, yes. Is this event meant to be completed without organization. Hell, no.

If players aren’t willing to put in the effort to learn, organize or just bloody follow instructions, then stop whining about the difficulty.

Megaserver organization = lotsa Pugs against your will.