Guild Wars 2

I love the little bits of this jumping puzzle. Doing each section is kind of fun, and it’s not to get up to the higher points in LA.

But why oh why are there no checkpoints throughout the whole thing? One would think there would be at least a checkpoint once you reach one of the chests. Or some other way up. Having to start all the way back at the beginning is just so painful when it’s such a long jumping puzzle with so many little ledges to run across. The puzzle itself doesn’t feel that difficult, but the punishment for falling is just severe.

Wow my thread got buried fast. Guess no one cares much about checkpoints….

Myself and some friends completed this JP last night. We had two mesmers along who acted as our “checkpoints” while the rest of us scouted out the correct path. Once we found the correct path, the mesmers took turns following us one at a time (in case one mesmer fell).

It was a fun group experience but if any of us went solo, we definitely would have doubled or tripled our time doing it (and it took very long as it is). I reckon checkpoints are a good idea. They can be placed at the location of each stash, and they can include a gold fee for it as well, with the price being relative to which stash you choose to travel to (with the furthest one being the most expensive).

I don’t really like the idea of checkpoints (because I like the brutality of this JP), but if they had to do it, I would say that they offer something similar like the SW JP. Where once you reach the chest you can get a buff or consumable account item where if you fall/die you can return to that chest. That way it wouldn’t be exploited by other players just using it to get to each chest, or creating a market for such an item or something.

Sorry, I understand the sentiment, but no. There are plenty of long and brutal JPs, but checkpoints has never been a thing, and shouldn’t be.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sorry, I understand the sentiment, but no. There are plenty of long and brutal JPs, but checkpoints has never been a thing, and shouldn’t be.

The JP in the silverwastes has checkpoints. I love it there. If this new puzzle is as long as that one then there should be checkpoints here too.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sorry, I understand the sentiment, but no. There are plenty of long and brutal JPs, but checkpoints has never been a thing, and shouldn’t be.

They did it in Silverwastes. Where have you been? With that said, this JP isn’t that bad. I ran it 3 times yesterday for the guild. Bring a mesmer and lay a lot of emergency portals.

I forgot about Silverwastes, I only ran it the one time since you can’t park on it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sorry, I understand the sentiment, but no. There are plenty of long and brutal JPs, but checkpoints has never been a thing, and shouldn’t be.

Quite a few jumping puzzles have “checkpoints”. Though you might not think of them in the literal sense. But many jump puzzles have phases. Where after you complete a section, you’re in a whole new area of the jumping puzzle and only have to make your way back to the start of that. Many of the really long ones have checkpoints, Silverwastes being a good example of it.

As it is, a few mesmers working together can already give themselves infinite checkpoints at any point in the course. So not having any checkpoints on a particularly long JP like this is really just screwing over anyone not playing a mesmer.

Dinks.2478:

They did it in Silverwastes. Where have you been? With that said, this JP isn’t that bad. I ran it 3 times yesterday for the guild. Bring a mesmer and lay a lot of emergency portals.

That’s not really doing it as intended though. Having a bunch of mesmer portals basically are your checkpoints.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sorry, I understand the sentiment, but no. There are plenty of long and brutal JPs, but checkpoints has never been a thing, and shouldn’t be.

I guess you’ve never completed Goemm’s Lab, which has attunements you can acquire that act as checkpoints.

Part of the challenge is that you run the risk of starting over. At least they provided safety nets (literally in some places) so that you have a buffer for mistakes.

There are a few “shortcuts” one can find to get themselves back up to a point past the start. While not checkpoints and not obvious, once found allow you a couple places to get back up.

Mesmers are a big help with this. But I do understand your pain. It would be helpful.

rhapsody.3615:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sorry, I understand the sentiment, but no. There are plenty of long and brutal JPs, but checkpoints has never been a thing, and shouldn’t be.

I guess you’ve never completed Goemm’s Lab, which has attunements you can acquire that act as checkpoints.

Yeah, so there’s two of them, both of which were thematically built in. This one wasn’t, which makes it more like Southsun. Long and hard, with rest stops, but it’s all or nothing.

Ballads.2509:

There are a few “shortcuts” one can find to get themselves back up to a point past the start. While not checkpoints and not obvious, once found allow you a couple places to get back up.

Any examples? I tried looking for them, but all the places that got me close were blocked off with netting.

And Southsun is hard…but more about precision jumping. It’s also relatively short in comparison. This is more about if physics are going to screw you over walking on a small wire.

The point here is teamwork. We’ve succesfully completed this puzzle as 2 mesmers. One to try, one to portal and wait.

That’s not so much teamwork, as “Bring Mesmers”. And I can’t say I really care for a system that makes it so only one profession is useful.

Ok… I’ve been doing it for a while, and I change my answer. It would be nice to have a little backup, even if it’s only the key chests. It’s not that it’s hard, it’s just really annoying have to run across the whole city to start over.

Nope, no check points should be added, I ran it but it took a little over 2 hours of trial and error. That is what makes the JP so much more entertaining and is aditional content while we wait for HoT to launch. Many people kept complaining about lack up activities between now and HoT. Now you have something that takes a long time to do. If you are not willing to risk failing and starting over like many of us have done, too bad. Or you could just wait for the Dulfy guide.

Edit: Here you go

http://dulfy.net/2015/06/24/gw2-trolls-revenge-jumping-puzzle-guide/

JustTrogdor.7892:

Nope, no check points should be added, I ran it but it took a little over 2 hours of trial and error. If you are not willing to risk failing and starting over like many of us have done, too bad. Or you could just wait for the Dulfy guide.

It isn’t about guides, it about tedium. I totally get it now.

To be fair to the puzzle, there are a lot of areas where falling just means having to redo that specific part. But plenty of others mean a long trek followed by a repeat of a long puzzle.

The immediate part after getting part 3 is brutal. That’s my biggest complaint, messing up the bit right after part 3, the start of getting to 4, is probably the worst layout to a jumping puzzle. I’ve never liked the long ones where you have to figure out where to go. I like the more technical ones, because at least then I know it’s me just not quite maneuvering correctly. This one is one that has easily replaced Scavenger’s Chasm as my least favorite since the pathing seems even less intuitive.

Seriously, I was okay up through getting part 3. But starting part 4 I haven’t gotten back up to the roof, and each attempt just makes me rage to the point where if I don’t do decently on getting to 3, one miss is all it takes and I’m off to another game entirely.

Kal Spiro.9745:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Nope, no check points should be added, I ran it but it took a little over 2 hours of trial and error. If you are not willing to risk failing and starting over like many of us have done, too bad. Or you could just wait for the Dulfy guide.

It isn’t about guides, it about tedium. I totally get it now.

To be fair to the puzzle, there are a lot of areas where falling just means having to redo that specific part. But plenty of others mean a long trek followed by a repeat of a long puzzle.

I’m sorry you are not happy with the JP the way it is. However, I am and am glad it requires strating over if you make a mistake in some areas. That aspect makes it an elite JP. It isn’t for everyone and I like that fact. Hmm… seems like a thread I can recall where you were happy with the results that others were not. Funny how that works.

Let me quote you:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Someone is never satisfied, and as soon as one person isn’t satisfied people come out of the wood works on the prospect that they might be able to get more. Give an inch, as the old adage says.

By that reasoning next thing you know people might be asking for waypoints, more saftey nets, easier paths as well as check points in the new JP.

The context of that statement was that people complained and complained and ANet took those complaints and gave something meaningful back. Then rather than being happy with it people complained for yet more changes. It was greedy and that’s what I took exception to. By that same standard, if people did those things you describe I would have a similar reply. Just a handful of check points is enough. And easily controlled by which keys you have.

In this case, as with the three other JPs with waypoints, as I recall the Metrica Province JP also does, it would not reduce the difficulty of the puzzle. The jumps would still be hard. They would still be just as hard as they were from the beginning. The difference in that failure wouldn’t mean the tedium doing it all from the beginning, it would just mean doing it from the last stash.

It’s not a requirement, nor a demand, and I honestly don’t expect them to do it regardless. It’s just something that would be appreciated and would be QoL. Honestly, if it weren’t just so kitten ed long I really wouldn’t care, but it really really is.

Kal Spiro.9745:

In this case, as with the three other JPs with waypoints, as I recall the Metrica Province JP also does, it would not reduce the difficulty of the puzzle. The jumps would still be hard. They would still be just as hard as they were from the beginning. The difference in that failure wouldn’t mean the tedium doing it all from the beginning, it would just mean doing it from the last stash.

Which would make it less difficult. The major part of the new JP is there is little room for error and in the event of a major mistake you start over. If you got to a checkpoint and then made a mistake and went back to that checkpoint instead of having to start over and having to make those jumps all over again to get to that area, it would indeed be less difficult.

Sorry, but I am happy with the JP as it is. It is difficult and unforgiving. That gives me something to do while I wait for the beta weekends and for HoT. If they add checkpoints it will trivilaize the JP. “Okay I spent 15 minutes to get to checkpoint 1. Now I can be less cautious on that 5th jump because I can just go back to the checkpoint.” That is indeed a reduction in difficulty. Having to start all over if you fail to accomplish all the jumps again is part of the difficulty.

Part of the thing that really bugs me is that most of the times I fall in this jumping puzzle, it’s not due to a tricky jump or some kind of timing. It’s because I had to narrowly walk on this small ledge that my body barely fits on. Or I hit a spot that looks safe, but it makes me do the slide and momentum carries me off. Never feels like it was my fault, but just the imprecise physics screwing me over.

Coldin.2840:

Part of the thing that really bugs me is that most of the times I fall in this jumping puzzle, it’s not due to a tricky jump or some kind of timing. It’s because I had to narrowly walk on this small ledge that my body barely fits on. Or I hit a spot that looks safe, but it makes me do the slide and momentum carries me off. Never feels like it was my fault, but just the imprecise physics screwing me over.

I have found for some of those narrow ledge walks it helps to go into first person view until you get around. They are all certainly doable and not based on imprecise physics. The major tip is to take your time with those tricky jumps/walks. It is just some of the jumps require you to jump from a certain spot and land on a very precise area. After trial and error you will learn to nail them every time. Also if you are jumping to an area and sliding off and falling you are jumping to the wrong spot. There are many people doing the JP right now so you can take advantage of that. If you get to an area where you are not sure wait a bit and see what others are doing.

Im sorry but tedium does not equal skill, I found most of troll’s revenge jumping and pathing to be on-par with other jumping puzzle, its just insanely long and unforgiving.
Tedious dosent mean skill, and thats what really sucks. You get screwed completly if you do the slightest mistake.

Phyrex.5174:

You get screwed completly if you do the slightest mistake.

Like the Mad King Clock Tower and Winter Wonderland. They are much shorter but equally unforgiving but at least with this JP you get a chance to pause and look at what you need to do. That is what makes this new jump puzzle an elite jump puzzle. It isn’t for everyone. It takes persistance and patience. 10/10 will do again.

I like this jumping puzzle the way it is. I actually don’t like that mesmers can just portal people to the caches, but that is whatever I guess. The puzzle is easy to learn with a bit of patience, trial and error, and persistence. It’s not for everybody.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Phyrex.5174:

You get screwed completly if you do the slightest mistake.

Like the Mad King Clock Tower and Winter Wonderland. They are shorter but equally unforgiving but at least with this JP you get a chance to pause and look what at you need to do. That is what makes this new jump puzzle an elite jump puzzle. It isn’t for everyone. It takes persistance and patience. 10/10 will do again.

It’s not even close to Mad King or Winter Wonderland. Those required very fast pace and well executed jumps. Jumps where if you went short or long you’d be screwed.

This jumping puzzle is just walk the tight ropes and make jumps that your character can only just reach. (Getting on top of some of those smokestacks is really cumbersome.) There is no skill really involved here.

If anything, the closest comparison is the jumping puzzle in Silverwastes. It’s long but has very few moments of precise jumping, just finding the right path to go. But that one gives you checkpoints.

Coldin.2840:

This jumping puzzle is just walk the tight ropes and make jumps that your character can only just reach. (Getting on top of some of those smokestacks is really cumbersome.) There is no skill really involved here.

If there is no skill involved then what are you complaining about? It should be a cake walk for you.

Coldin.2840:

Jumps where if you went short or long you’d be screwed.

Sounds like what you described above when you said this:

Coldin.2840:

This jumping puzzle is just walk the tight ropes and make jumps that your character can only just reach.

Having completed the puzzle I can tell you that there are many, many jumps if you jump too short or too long you fail.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Coldin.2840:

This jumping puzzle is just walk the tight ropes and make jumps that your character can only just reach. (Getting on top of some of those smokestacks is really cumbersome.) There is no skill really involved here.

If there is no skill involved then what are you complaining about? It should be a cake walk for you.

Coldin.2840:

Jumps where if you went short or long you’d be screwed.

Sounds like what you described above when you said this:

Coldin.2840:

This jumping puzzle is just walk the tight ropes and make jumps that your character can only just reach.

Having completed the puzzle I can tell you that there are many, many jumps if you jump too short or too long you fail.

You really aren’t getting it. Or you’re just intentionally not getting it.

The tight rope walks are just how steady you can keep the camera and walk in a straight line. The jumps are not difficult or challenging. They are just annoying. For example, there is a smokestack you have to jump on early in the puzzle. It it just high enough to get onto if you get the sloped edge. But, because it is just high enough, that makes you usually have to make several attempts at it from different angles until you get the one that lets you go up over it. It’s not challenging or interesting, it’s just annoying.

I would say several parts have been relatively easy. I’ve made it to the third chest many times so far. The blind jump after however screwed me over and I made it past that once….only to fall down when I had to inch around a tower because of the ledge being a bit too small.

Eventually I’ll muster up the patience to get this done. But it will be done ONCE, and then forgotten. It is simply not interesting enough to hold my attention when the lack of checkpoints makes it too frustrating for multiple attempts.

Actually, the SW one is much easier to get back to if you fall to your death. After a while, you can get back to where you fell quite fast once you know how to get there, without paying KIT that 1gold or silver.

But this one in LA is a pain. The platform standboxes are quite small, that even if you think you should be standing on it, you will fall even though on screen you are suppose to be able to stand on it. I find that the steps that you use to jump on top the lobster area the standbox is quite small and you must be every exact on where you land. Slight off, and you will fall, even though you are suppose to be standing on it.
I think ANET just need to tweak the standboxes a bit, and you won’t need checkpoints or Mesmer to do this jp.
I am really not too keen to bring out my mesmer to do a jumping puzzle. Just like some jumping puzzle that makes you frustrated just because the standbox is so small, just a slight movement, and you will fall to either your death or to an area you can get back out and have to portal out or run back to the start.

I can see why some would like the checkpoints. Some areas of the puzzle are brutal. But I get why some would not like them either. Still, I’m good with either way. In most cases, I’ll just pay a mesmer to be honest.

I suck at jumping puzzles.

ANET just need to tweak the standboxes, because some of them are very small, smaller than the thing you are standing on.

I firmly believe that some parts of the game need not be completed by everyone. I think the game is vast enough that there should be a few things that are “hard mode” or “elite” — they needn’t have special rewards, so JPs are a great place for these sorts of things.

Some JPs, like Silverwastes, offer a lot of support for those who aren’t as skilled. Others, like Mad King or Wintersday are timed. Still others have a lot of very difficult, precise jumps. I think a variety is good for the game and the community.

Still, I’d prefer to see the JPs in LA be more accessible rather than less. And, actually, I think Troll’s Revenge is very accessible…for a really hard puzzle.

But . . . but . . . achievements!

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I firmly believe that some parts of the game need not be completed by everyone. I think the game is vast enough that there should be a few things that are “hard mode” or “elite” — they needn’t have special rewards, so JPs are a great place for these sorts of things.

Some JPs, like Silverwastes, offer a lot of support for those who aren’t as skilled. Others, like Mad King or Wintersday are timed. Still others have a lot of very difficult, precise jumps. I think a variety is good for the game and the community.

Still, I’d prefer to see the JPs in LA be more accessible rather than less. And, actually, I think Troll’s Revenge is very accessible…for a really hard puzzle.

I have done almost all the JP’s. The only ones I couldn’t finished previously was the Winter’s day one because my computer is running on low settings (old computer) and the Mad King’s tower because I was using an even older computer and has input lag. Now with a new computer, I have done every JP there is.

This one however, I have a problem with the standboxes on the lobster area. This JP should be easy if the standboxes are exactly as you seen on screen. But it is now at the moment. So, a slight deviation when you land on the platform or ropes, or strings or bars, and you will fall.

Another is, you must be one of those elites who can do superhuman feats in GW2, so good for you. But stop saying that some things in the game should be for the elites only or have a hard mode. If you want hard mode, go play Dark Souls. :P

khani.4786:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Sorry, I understand the sentiment, but no. There are plenty of long and brutal JPs, but checkpoints has never been a thing, and shouldn’t be.

The JP in the silverwastes has checkpoints. I love it there. If this new puzzle is as long as that one then there should be checkpoints here too.

This one can be said is an exceptionWithout check points it will be brutal,masochistic machine…

The key you get from the chests could act as a portal to the chest you got it from. Either through clicking on it while in LA or by talking to an NPC with the key in your inventory or something else.

Coldin.2840:

Ballads.2509:

There are a few “shortcuts” one can find to get themselves back up to a point past the start. While not checkpoints and not obvious, once found allow you a couple places to get back up.

Any examples? I tried looking for them, but all the places that got me close were blocked off with netting.

And Southsun is hard…but more about precision jumping. It’s also relatively short in comparison. This is more about if physics are going to screw you over walking on a small wire.

Not me or my find, but I can confirm it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ylhTGyhT18
Pretty good as a halfish way check point.

Either add checkpoints or make the geometries a little more forgiving. Being off by a centimeter resulting in failing and having to start over is utterly ridiculous

Got portaled, got my 10AP, gone.

There’s nothing in the reward payoff that makes this worth repeating after the achievement.

This “elite” JP (lol) will be dead in a couple of weeks.

While I would say it’s not a tenth as rewarding as it should be (because they knew people were going to get ported anyway)

And yes, get ported for the achievement now before it’s dead.

On the subject of checkpoints, I don’t see any reason they couldn’t work.
I mean, you have to reach all 4 stashes to open the chest, so if they added a way onto the JP after each chest with no way to back track so you have to do each part (or at least get ported to each part like everyone else)
What’s the difference then?

JustTrogdor.7892:

Phyrex.5174:

You get screwed completly if you do the slightest mistake.

Like the Mad King Clock Tower and Winter Wonderland. They are much shorter but equally unforgiving but at least with this JP you get a chance to pause and look at what you need to do. That is what makes this new jump puzzle an elite jump puzzle. It isn’t for everyone. It takes persistance and patience. 10/10 will do again.

You can’t use the clock, nor WW as examples since they’re both incredibly short. Failure on the clock is a wait of five minutes max, usually much much shorter, to do a five minute run. WW failure means instantly starting over for again about five minutes of work, the only wait is the maybe minute refresh on the platforms. This is a LOOOONG run even if you do it perfectly. They’re not equivalent.

Coldin.2840:

Wow my thread got buried fast. Guess no one cares much about checkpoints….

Not any more. Finished and will not do it anymore.
The view is fantastic and i love all those wooden towers/roofs and the sight!
But albeit all nice things, this JP has no fun for me. As you said the punishment for falling down it to radical esp. if you are close tho the 4. chest. The loot from toll-chest is really not appropiate for the effort.
Conclusion: done & forget.

SirDrygan.1823:

Another is, you must be one of those elites who can do superhuman feats in GW2, so good for you. But stop saying that some things in the game should be for the elites only or have a hard mode. If you want hard mode, go play Dark Souls. :P

Thanks for the compliment, but you couldn’t be farther from the truth. I am not very good at JPs and I need to practice a lot before I can pretend to be better than average. I haven’t managed the most difficult jumps in the puzzle on the first (or even second try), so I’m still relying on the safety net of mesmer portals.

And I won’t stop saying what I believe to be true: the game is big enough that some things in the game can be truly difficult. I’m not asking for an “elites only” or “hard mode” — both of those things would be bad for this game and mean something different from what I’m talking about.

“Troll’s Revenge” is a case in point: it’s not as hard as some make it out to be; it’s just hard enough that it gives us a chance to challenge ourselves. If you don’t want the challenge, that’s fine; there are plenty of other challenging puzzles in the game still.

I agree with the OP. Sorry to the “challenge S/Ms,” but I don’t enjoy spending a half hour working through a JP only to slip near the end and have to start over. If you do, then you can always ignore the checkpoints.

I did manage to clear it, thanks to a friendly passing Mesmer picking me back up a few times, but managed all the actual jumps myself, and figured out most of it myself too, and that’s where the fun/challenge lies. For the record, the points where I fell were: 1. right near the beginning where you jump into the first dingy/flowerbed, 2. where you jump from the lobster onto the boat, 3. where you jump into the lobster’s eyes (I went on to jump to the other whisker, bad move), 4. fell into the bar after the 3rd stash, and 5. fell into the Commodore’s Quarter after halfway through that bit.

The thing is, the way I am, if I couldn’t get a Mesmer portal, I may have just given up entirely after the second or third of those. Too much work to get back to where I was. That is not a lack of skill, that is a lack of interest in self flagellation. I don’t push boulders uphill, I don’t bang my head against walls, and I don’t spend an hour redoing jumps that I just did.

They should just add at least four checkpoints, one after each stash (except for the 4th, which would be that kid on the wire above the Commodore WP instead). Make it so that you must activate it each time through, so people can’t cheat and skip to the last one, just like the ones in the Silverwaste.

I’m sorry you are not happy with the JP the way it is. However, I am and am glad it requires strating over if you make a mistake in some areas. That aspect makes it an elite JP. It isn’t for everyone and I like that fact. Hmm… seems like a thread I can recall where you were happy with the results that others were not. Funny how that works.

Bull. In it’s current state, it’s only “elite” if you do it without using Mesmers. But you can use Mesmers, so non-elite people can do it too. So since non-elite people can do it by using Mesmers, what’s the harm in having built in checkpoints so that you can do it even if there are no Mesmers around? If you want the challenge of doing it without checkpoints, ignore the checkpoints, if you fall, run back to the start, but there’s no reason why they can’t have checkpoints for everyone else.

By that reasoning next thing you know people might be asking for waypoints, more saftey nets, easier paths as well as check points in the new JP.

I don’t think that should be necessary. The point is not to make each phase easier, but just to make it so that if you slip, it doesn’t set you back too far (like an hour or more). You would still have to make each jump to get where you want to go, it would just be less cruel if you slip.

It’s not even close to Mad King or Winter Wonderland. Those required very fast pace and well executed jumps. Jumps where if you went short or long you’d be screwed.

Yeah, totally different type of challenge. Those two were definitely harder, BUT less punishing, since if you failed at the end, all it did was set you back 3-5 minutes or so, not an hour or more. I still find those frustrating sometimes, but they are an entirely different type of challenge.

Ohoni.6057:

For the record, the points where I fell were: 1. right near the beginning where you jump into the first dingy/flowerbed, 2. where you jump from the lobster onto the boat, 3. where you jump into the lobster’s eyes (I went on to jump to the other whisker, bad move), 4. fell into the bar after the 3rd stash, and 5. fell into the Commodore’s Quarter after halfway through that bit.

I always had issues right before the the 1st chest where you have to slightly jump around a corn onto the gray pot or whatever it is. I kept on missing it. The other jump I would miss a lot was just before the second chest after you dropped down from the white platform. What you listed as third definitely gets me and was always annoying to miss.

Luckily there’s a way to get to the 1st, 2nd, and 4th chests without doing the puzzle or using a mesmer portal. So on the bright side, there kind of are checkpoints in a way.

Suggestion : when doing JP, skills are disable. (Elite jp) for you,.