Try it before you knock it
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it doesn’t matter what other games you have played, this is not those games
give the new content a try and see how it works
its ok to express your concerns or fears, but to outright say you have been betrayed, or scammed, or that you are quitting because of this, is simply idiotic
PLAY the content, THEN give feedback
right now everyone is taking speculation as fact, without even giving the ideas and content a chance
FROM THE GOLDEN RULES OF GUILD WARS 2:
Take risks
“Let’s try it.” You hope to hear that phrase at the end of a meeting, especially if that meeting was contentious, or if the idea discussed is new and radical.
Imagine a playground full of kids playing. At its best, playing is making mistakes in a safe environment and learning from those mistakes in a way that encourages growth. Trying out new ideas or making drastic changes is the way we as designers get to play with the game. It’s where we slip and fall, scrape our knees, and otherwise monkey around on the jungle gym. While we don’t try out every idea, we use our collective experience to get a sense for what has promise—what we should follow down the rabbit hole. We look at where our ideas break, how they break, and why they break. "The game was terrible on release and still is now, “it doesn’t matter what other games you have played, this is not those games”. Clearly, the MMO’s I play are fun unlike this mess of a game, $60 for a week of boredom! I’ll never buy an MMO on release thanks to this company!
you add nothing to this conversation
On the left corner, we have elitist complain no endgame, on right corner we have casual complain about gear treadmill. Sigh, I guess it IMPOSSIBLE to make everyone happy
Certainly not when you market a game to casuals, because you know that’s where the big money is, and 3 months later go “psych” and turn the game over to the elitists.
This is an honest question, as a casual player why would they be worried about getting +15 more stats and an Infusion that only negates Agony at the absolute hardest end of a dungeon that can be happily played without requiring any ascended gear at all?
Casual players already have an absolute boat full of things to do in this game, this is something for the “hardcore” players to strive for.
Well, I don’t speak for casuals, nor do I consider myself one, but I don’t think it’s about a couple of points on some armor. It’s being relegated to second class, just so some others get to feel superior. This is what almost every other game does, and GW2 wasn’t supposed to.
The problem is that casual players can run the dungeon just fine. The only thing they couldn’t do, based on the assumption they’d somehow be prevented from getting ascended gear (which is more than likely not the case) and thus Agony resistance, is get to the soul crushing levels of deep difficulty from numerous chained runs of the dungeon. Other than this infinite difficulty scaling everything the dungeon has to offer would be available to them. How is that regulating casuals to “second class?”
That’s the problem you run into when you lump ‘casuals’ into a single group. Casuals are casual for a wide variety of reasons. That’s why Arenanet marketed the game as accomodating a wide variety of playstyles. Until now, you didn’t have to dungeons at all to get your gear. You could craft it, you could do DE’s, you could WvW, you could buy it on the TP, etc. When you offer so many choices, nearly everyone can find a way that works for them. That approach has now changed drastically.
First off, one of the new item types is acquired through the Mystic Forge, not the dungeon. That would be the back piece.
Second you have no idea how difficult the beginner levels of the dungeon are. For all we know they’re easier than Story Modes. Hell maybe the rings can be gained through other means in the new zone they’re adding. Don’t go jumping to conclusions and screaming about how persecuted you are based on incomplete information.
No thanks, I know where this is going.
Pretty obvious what direction they want to go when they release a new tier of gear this close to release.
actually its not obvious, it would be more obvious to add a new tier sooner than later because gear does not have a legendary tier and that creates a somewhat odd dichotomy with items
You don’t need to “try it before you knock it”. We’ve all seen gear treadmills in other MMOs & they showed the exact details in the Lindsey Murdock post. No thanks.
based solely on the blog post, please explain how this is exactly like other gear treadmills in other MMO’s
The problem being that they are stepping on the edge of a very slippery slope. Right now it’s just one tier. As soon as they add a second tier, it’ll be exactly like other gear threadmills. That’s why I want a clear statement that this is the ONLY time they’ll be increasing general stats. If A.net can make a solid promise that this is the one and only time another gear level is included (because we all knew “something” was coming for armor), I’m okay with it. The problem however is in the elitist no-life raiders who will be demanding a new tier in a few weeks. And that’s the moment this slippery slope can make or break the game.
I agree with this, they were very good about gear in GW1 and many people were expecting a legendary tier of armor, so I don’t believe that from everything we definitely know right now, that any of it is cause for concern
That’s ignorance from your part. The parts we don’t know yet are very much cause for concern. Ignoring the potential bad effects until after they happened isn’t golden rule, it’s stupidity.
These posts are a form of “until here and not further”.
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
Gear grind is a bad idea because of the grinding part implying the content needed to get the gear is boring and repetitive. But if Anet introduces content that is innovative and has replayability, then I don’t see the problem of adding gear progression along with that content.
People who want fun content gets it. People who want gear progression get it. Everybodys happy.
What about people who spent dozens of gold to get the best gear that got told suddenly that they should have waited and used that gold instead to buy lodestones or some cultural armor set instead because that new dungeon will loot BETTER gear?
so far we only know that the rings come from the dungeon, there is no mention on how we will get armor or when it is coming
On the left corner, we have elitist complain no endgame, on right corner we have casual complain about gear treadmill. Sigh, I guess it IMPOSSIBLE to make everyone happy
Certainly not when you market a game to casuals, because you know that’s where the big money is, and 3 months later go “psych” and turn the game over to the elitists.
This is an honest question, as a casual player why would they be worried about getting +15 more stats and an Infusion that only negates Agony at the absolute hardest end of a dungeon that can be happily played without requiring any ascended gear at all?
Casual players already have an absolute boat full of things to do in this game, this is something for the “hardcore” players to strive for.
Well, I don’t speak for casuals, nor do I consider myself one, but I don’t think it’s about a couple of points on some armor. It’s being relegated to second class, just so some others get to feel superior. This is what almost every other game does, and GW2 wasn’t supposed to.
The problem is that casual players can run the dungeon just fine. The only thing they couldn’t do, based on the assumption they’d somehow be prevented from getting ascended gear (which is more than likely not the case) and thus Agony resistance, is get to the soul crushing levels of deep difficulty from numerous chained runs of the dungeon. Other than this infinite difficulty scaling everything the dungeon has to offer would be available to them. How is that regulating casuals to “second class?”
That’s the problem you run into when you lump ‘casuals’ into a single group. Casuals are casual for a wide variety of reasons. That’s why Arenanet marketed the game as accomodating a wide variety of playstyles. Until now, you didn’t have to dungeons at all to get your gear. You could craft it, you could do DE’s, you could WvW, you could buy it on the TP, etc. When you offer so many choices, nearly everyone can find a way that works for them. That approach has now changed drastically.
First off, one of the new item types is acquired through the Mystic Forge, not the dungeon. That would be the back piece.
Second you have no idea how difficult the beginner levels of the dungeon are. For all we know they’re easier than Story Modes. Hell maybe the rings can be gained through other means in the new zone they’re adding. Don’t go jumping to conclusions and screaming about how persecuted you are based on incomplete information.
First of all, I already said I was not speaking for casuals, nor did I consider myself one. I was not jumping to any conclusion, nor was I screaming about persecution.
Second, I thought I was having a nice discussion with someone civilized. I was mistaken. Since you just want to flame, I’m out.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet
so far we only know that the rings come from the dungeon, there is no mention on how we will get armor or when it is coming
So far I know I lost dozens of gold buying some alternate exotic jewelry set because I could just have waited a little on my old set or on some rare set and get the new treadmill gear from that new dungeon which I’m interested to do anyway.
You don’t need to “try it before you knock it”. We’ve all seen gear treadmills in other MMOs & they showed the exact details in the Lindsey Murdock post. No thanks.
based solely on the blog post, please explain how this is exactly like other gear treadmills in other MMO’s
The problem being that they are stepping on the edge of a very slippery slope. Right now it’s just one tier. As soon as they add a second tier, it’ll be exactly like other gear threadmills. That’s why I want a clear statement that this is the ONLY time they’ll be increasing general stats. If A.net can make a solid promise that this is the one and only time another gear level is included (because we all knew “something” was coming for armor), I’m okay with it. The problem however is in the elitist no-life raiders who will be demanding a new tier in a few weeks. And that’s the moment this slippery slope can make or break the game.
It’s not the only time. Read the Lyndsey Murdock post. It is clearly stated that they are introducing item progression into the game.
“Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”
“… that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.”
“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.”
And for all those ppl saying the change in stats is minor… you forgot to add. There are 12 gear slots. They purposefully showed off a ring bc it has the most minor change in stats. What a joke.
(edited by JJGlyph.9746)
You don’t need to “try it before you knock it”. We’ve all seen gear treadmills in other MMOs & they showed the exact details in the Lindsey Murdock post. No thanks.
based solely on the blog post, please explain how this is exactly like other gear treadmills in other MMO’s
The problem being that they are stepping on the edge of a very slippery slope. Right now it’s just one tier. As soon as they add a second tier, it’ll be exactly like other gear threadmills. That’s why I want a clear statement that this is the ONLY time they’ll be increasing general stats. If A.net can make a solid promise that this is the one and only time another gear level is included (because we all knew “something” was coming for armor), I’m okay with it. The problem however is in the elitist no-life raiders who will be demanding a new tier in a few weeks. And that’s the moment this slippery slope can make or break the game.
I agree with this, they were very good about gear in GW1 and many people were expecting a legendary tier of armor, so I don’t believe that from everything we definitely know right now, that any of it is cause for concern
That’s ignorance from your part. The parts we don’t know yet are very much cause for concern. Ignoring the potential bad effects until after they happened isn’t golden rule, it’s stupidity.
These posts are a form of “until here and not further”.
well, since I can’t speak for the developers, I would assume since its their job, they have considered the potential bad effects and decided to try it out and add something new, and they will listen to feedback so that if it doesn’t turn out like they thought, they can make changes and grow the game, its a living thing, nothing new has to be set in stone
from what I do know from the variety of previews, and the blog post, this update is worth trying and not something people that should cause people to quit especially without trying it out first
You don’t need to “try it before you knock it”. We’ve all seen gear treadmills in other MMOs & they showed the exact details in the Lindsey Murdock post. No thanks.
based solely on the blog post, please explain how this is exactly like other gear treadmills in other MMO’s
The problem being that they are stepping on the edge of a very slippery slope. Right now it’s just one tier. As soon as they add a second tier, it’ll be exactly like other gear threadmills. That’s why I want a clear statement that this is the ONLY time they’ll be increasing general stats. If A.net can make a solid promise that this is the one and only time another gear level is included (because we all knew “something” was coming for armor), I’m okay with it. The problem however is in the elitist no-life raiders who will be demanding a new tier in a few weeks. And that’s the moment this slippery slope can make or break the game.
It’s not the only time. Read the Lyndsey Murdock post. It is clearly stated that they are introducing item progression into the game.
“Adding item progression is a delicate process normally undertaken in an expansion, but we feel it’s important to strive to satisfy the basic needs of our players sooner rather than later.”
“… that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.”
“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.”
And for all those ppl saying the change in stats is minor… you forgot to add. There are 12 gear slots. They purposefully showed off a ring bc it has the most minor change in stats. What a joke.
the item progression initiative is the addition of ascended items, the initial items will be the ring and the back pack as well as the level 1 infusions, we don’t know about any other accessories or armors including the variation on stats or about higher level infusions including how they will be obtained
this does not equate to power creep or gear grind
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.
you have already tried the new GW2 content?
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.you have already tried the new GW2 content?
Its no different than Raid gear progression in every single MMO game in existence.
That said, the sting will be taken out if, as someone had mentioned, the gear is only useful in that dungeon due to not having sig slots.
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.you have already tried the new GW2 content?
Its no different than Raid gear progression in every single MMO game in existence.
how do you know if you haven’t tried it?
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.you have already tried the new GW2 content?
Its no different than Raid gear progression in every single MMO game in existence.
how do you know if you haven’t tried it?
This is the same argument ppl used for months about events being zergs & too much special FX flash. You don’t need to try it to know. They have provided the details. Wow, some people…
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.you have already tried the new GW2 content?
Its no different than Raid gear progression in every single MMO game in existence.
how do you know if you haven’t tried it?
This is the same argument ppl used for months about events being zergs & too much special FX flash. You don’t need to try it to know. They have provided the details. Wow, some people…
they have not provided all of the details, especially about the armor, what effect the varieties of infusions do, etc.
so we can’t just jump to conclusions here
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.you have already tried the new GW2 content?
Its no different than Raid gear progression in every single MMO game in existence.
how do you know if you haven’t tried it?
This is the same argument ppl used for months about events being zergs & too much special FX flash. You don’t need to try it to know. They have provided the details. Wow, some people…
they have not provided all of the details, especially about the armor, what effect the varieties of infusions do, etc.
so we can’t just jump to conclusions here
As someone mentioned, if the armor is only good in that dungeon and “worthless” every where else, then its not taking away from the over all philosophy of the game. Of course, this isn’t likely the case because ANET decided to give the armor better stats on top of a special ability.
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.you have already tried the new GW2 content?
Its no different than Raid gear progression in every single MMO game in existence.
how do you know if you haven’t tried it?
This is the same argument ppl used for months about events being zergs & too much special FX flash. You don’t need to try it to know. They have provided the details. Wow, some people…
they have not provided all of the details, especially about the armor, what effect the varieties of infusions do, etc.
so we can’t just jump to conclusions here
As someone mentioned, if the armor is only good in that dungeon and “worthless” every where else, then its not taking away from the over all philosophy of the game. Of course, this isn’t likely the case because ANET decided to give the armor better stats on top of a special ability.
well, we won’t know for sure until they release them but according to what we know, the better stats are there to compensate for the fact that the gear has no upgrade slots for runes or sigils
well, we won’t know for sure until they release them but according to what we know, the better stats are there to compensate for the fact that the gear has no upgrade slots for runes or sigils
Why does the example ring get plain better stats in all cases than any other ring you can get in the game currently then?
well, we won’t know for sure until they release them but according to what we know, the better stats are there to compensate for the fact that the gear has no upgrade slots for runes or sigils
Why does the example ring get plain better stats in all cases than any other ring you can get in the game currently then?
lack of ability to customize as you see fit would be a good one
well, we won’t know for sure until they release them but according to what we know, the better stats are there to compensate for the fact that the gear has no upgrade slots for runes or sigils
Why does the example ring get plain better stats in all cases than any other ring you can get in the game currently then?
lack of ability to customize as you see fit would be a good one
There’s no customizability in jewelry. You could get the exact same stats to a couple points mixing and matching different kinds of base jewelry than by putting a different jewel in each. Which would even be the smart thing to do since those upgrades aren’t exactly cheap themselves and the crafted jewelry comes with them for “free”.
I have tired it. Every other MMO has crapy gear grind progression. Now so does GW2. I don’t like it.
If I wanted to buy a gear grind tread mill game I wouldn’t of bought GW2. Now, if ANET plans on keeping this POS system that is reason why MMOs are stale (GW2 was actually a breath of fresh air) I won’t bother playing the game, picking it back up when new expansion come out, or spending another dime in the gem store (and I’ve already spent $200+). You will lose us ANET, and we would have been the people to keep your profitable for years just like GW1. Now you have catered to the fickle MMO crowd who will eat up your content and quit when the next shiny kitten is released. Hop you are happy.you have already tried the new GW2 content?
Its no different than Raid gear progression in every single MMO game in existence.
how do you know if you haven’t tried it?
This is the same argument ppl used for months about events being zergs & too much special FX flash. You don’t need to try it to know. They have provided the details. Wow, some people…
they have not provided all of the details, especially about the armor, what effect the varieties of infusions do, etc.
so we can’t just jump to conclusions here
As someone mentioned, if the armor is only good in that dungeon and “worthless” every where else, then its not taking away from the over all philosophy of the game. Of course, this isn’t likely the case because ANET decided to give the armor better stats on top of a special ability.
well, we won’t know for sure until they release them but according to what we know, the better stats are there to compensate for the fact that the gear has no upgrade slots for runes or sigils
If this is the case then the system isn’t that bad because the gear is simply a different flavor of exotic and useless in PvP. But it still doesn’t boad well simply because they are trying content to gear progression and visa versa.
well, we won’t know for sure until they release them but according to what we know, the better stats are there to compensate for the fact that the gear has no upgrade slots for runes or sigils
Why does the example ring get plain better stats in all cases than any other ring you can get in the game currently then?
lack of ability to customize as you see fit would be a good one
There’s no customizability in jewelry. You could get the exact same stats to a couple points mixing and matching different kinds of base jewelry than by putting a different jewel in each. Which would even be the smart thing to do since those upgrades aren’t exactly cheap themselves and the crafted jewelry comes with them for “free”.
please take note that the ring says “unique” most likely meaning you can only equip one of that type at a time, we don’t know what other types of rings there will be, or even how we get them in the dungeon, so being able to independently craft your own jewelry to whatever stats you need looks pretty advantageous
Gear Gate Content: “I promise you, you will love it”
The same line used by endless line of unemployed MMO devs LOL
Gear grind is a bad idea because of the grinding part implying the content needed to get the gear is boring and repetitive. But if Anet introduces content that is innovative and has replayability, then I don’t see the problem of adding gear progression along with that content.
What you’re overlooking is that gear progression makes old content obsolete. After 10 cycles of upgrades, running a dungeon that exists today would be pointless. It would be too easy (and no fun) and the rewards would be useless (and no fun). Vertical progression makes all the existing content obsolete. Half the reason I bought GW2 was due to the down-leveling for existing zones and the promise that all dungeons would be just as worth playing in two years as they are today.
I’ve played WoW for a while. There, you only ever have a few dungeons/raids that are at the top end of the content. The rest of the content is just dead. This makes the game very bland as there is little to do. The GW1 model (which they promised would apply to GW2!) allows for all the content to be something you can still do at a later time.
This is a horrible decision. It’s a real shame that they didn’t give a hint of this change earlier. Maybe if they had, they could’ve reversed this decision. Now it is almost certainly too late, given that QA has already been done on the new content.
That would require the GW2 community to be a couple of things: calm, rational, and open to new ideas.
Sadly they are none of these things.
Gear progression is a new idea? God kitten
/facepalm
impoc, i understand where you’re coming from, but the thing is: I’ve tried. I played other MMOs, gear treadmill always annoyed me and that’s why I decided to play GW2: because it promised to get read of all gear grind, stat grind, LF1M minxTier stuff.
Plain and simple: if I wanted gear treadmill, I would be in some other game, maybe one that has good support, also in-game, character restoration, reimbursement for their own bugs etc.
I wanted to play GW2 because I’ve tried this stuff and didn’t like it.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
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