Two ways to fix the zerker problem...

Two ways to fix the zerker problem...

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Posted by: TooBz.3065

TooBz.3065

They can’t increase the condition cap because it costs them too much bandwidth, which is really expensive. This was said by a dev.

Second, if nerfing zerker gear, aka nerfing warriors is kitten considering how this class is one of the weakest classes in WvW.

tl’dr this thread is basically non-warriors crying that warriors shouldn’t do that much damage even tho that’s what they’re built around.

Actually, I think this thread is a result of the failure of ArenaNet to provide a LFG tool.

Because the only LFG tool is mapshout or a third party website. People can post requirements like “LF1M —-——- WARRIOR == LINK FULL ZERK GEAR EXOTIC+ RUBY ORB== P1 FARMING PRO ONLY = )”

Which leaves everyone else out . This leads to questions as to why Zerker warriors are preferred. Which leads to people thinking about how to make them less preferred.

If there were a LFG tool in game that didn’t allow for messages like this, groups would be formed and no one would be kittening. But that genie has left the bottle.

Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.

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Posted by: Ordika.9513

Ordika.9513

Remove condition cap ? are you guys crazy….Honestly,do you Ever play pvp/wvwvw ? Removing condition cap is about the dumbest idea i heard just yet.

Thank you for putting me in my place oh wise sage…I am now a better person then I was before I read your well thought out reasoned and intelligent post.

No prob,that’s what i’m here for.It would create a hell of Aoe storm’s and people would drop like fly’s,wvwvw is alrdy based on balling and pushing or stacking and Putting Aoe’s infront,hardly seeing any melee’s these days.Removing the AOE cap because warriors in you guys opinion are to heavy on the dps/crit would be senseless.Aoe’s are strong enough as they are,you would know if you ever play Wvwvw and stop farming dungeons over and over.

Don’t they have Condition removal, dodge, and skill cooldowns to prevent this sort of thing. Isn’t that the point of a more skillful, tactical approach to PvP.

Yeah it would be rough at first, then skilled players would just learn to avoid these things, or spec more into survival (crazy thought I know, and ANet might then have incentivize to make survival more meaningful).

Ordika Skirata || Keirstaad Rhith || Rhun Turold || Quinten Vigar || Ahrung Park
Swansonites of North Shiverpeak – Northern Shiverpeaks

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Posted by: Firebaall.5127

Firebaall.5127

There is no zerker problem.

I suspect the OP had his feelings hurt when he got kicked from a CoF farming group that was asking for zerker geared warriors. Nothing more.

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Posted by: Firegoth.6427

Firegoth.6427

A very egotistic thread, considering that many people prefer things the way they are now.

OP, you are in a minority that asks for a change.
Here are my solutions for you:
- Create your own zerk warrior and start farming.
- Play with buddies who share similar ideals in running dungeons.
- Don’t do dungeons.

I hope you realize that many people who never or will bother looking at these forums (posters here are below 1% of whole community) will be very very aggravated with the outcome of a “nerf” to zerkers.

This thread isnt about dungeons, it is about the fact that one type of armor completely outshines every other set. And that we who use condition damage are completely screwed.

Sure I hate the speedfarmers ruining the in game economy too, but that is not this threads purpose.

But that is really the problem here, let’s call the child by it’s own name.
Full zerk doesn’t serve all purposes in sPvP / WvW, so we are truly left with PvE only.

Also, the +crit dmg % from the armor alone is hardly even close to gamebreaking.
Just as one example, you get more precision from Knight’s, some people like me would prefer the extra toughness and crit chance than 10% more crit dmg.

If anything, don’t bash the zerk gear, bash how effective conditions are in PvE, since they work just fine in competitive play, but extremely lackluster in PvE.

My first comment was made as I strongly felt that the OP got enraged with his last CoF group search and decided to make a thread about it, using other moot points along the way.

1+1 = potato

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

Another OP suggestion for conditions:
When duration/stacks are maxed, skills that apply their effect just do their damage up front discounting any duration increase.

So a skill that at its base applies 3 stacks of bleed for 6 seconds but you have 100% duration increase turning that into 12 seconds , what would occur when applied to a target with 25 bleed stacks is 756 damage (if 0 condition damage) would be produced instantly rather than over 42 bleed * 3 stacks spread over 6 seconds.

In a player vs player scenario, the likelihood of surviving 25 stacks of bleed is minimal (that’s over 1000 dmg/second with no condition damage not including any direct damage that would occur to apply the conditions, you’d have less than 5 seconds to live if you don’t remove them) so any direct damage from bleeding beyond the stack limit would be overkill.

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Posted by: Krosslite.1950

Krosslite.1950

per Colin Johanson:

“Open world online games are always strongest when players are encouraged and rewarded to interact as a community, to support other each other, and when the flow of the game ushers players to go places where they run into other players across all levels and have shared experiences. Our shared loot system, dynamic level adjustment system, shared resource nodes, multi-player skill combos, and the ability for every player to revive one another are all examples of key game features that help support this concept of a community-driven experience.”

to resolve the “zerg” issue is to spread the “zerg” out in to multiple zones.

Get off your duffs, form groups in your guilds and go find the DEs that have not been solved yets.. most of which are in Orr

Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred

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Posted by: Crossplay.2067

Crossplay.2067

what the uking problem whit zerker? learn to play and leave the other use whatever they want. Jesus Christ why so many jelly?

What did the English language do to you that you’d butcher it so heinously?

Best reply ever! You have made my day!

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Posted by: Khyber.2693

Khyber.2693

God, how dumb are you guys? You dont see anything wrong with there being one viable gear type?

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Posted by: Heijincks.9267

Heijincks.9267

God, how dumb are you guys? You dont see anything wrong with there being one viable gear type?

Actually, berserker gear is only truly effective in PvE. In WvW/sPvP, bunker builds destroy everything and it doesn’t involve berserker gear.

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Posted by: Crossplay.2067

Crossplay.2067

Waves fist at forums for deleting a highly detailed analysis that took 45 minutes to type

Here are the cliffnotes of my post.

  • Yes there is a problem but berzerker favoritism is just a “effect”
  • The problem has nothing to do with CoF or warriors
  • Over 50% of the people that I’ve seen post their builds use berzerker
    – Even those that use multiple sets usually post berzerker first
    – This includes pvp and wvw builds
  • Don’t take my word for it. Look through the profession forums for yourselves
  • This game has roughly 16 major stat combinations
  • With that many, berzerker should have 25% rep at most, not over half

With that said, game mechanics should be changed to favor other sets. Precision should increase the duration or stacks of conditions as well as heals and boons. Yes, there should be critical heals! Healing power should factor into how fast a player can revive another. Auras should last longer. This can get iffy with chaos armor but i see no problem in fire auras being twice as long.

Now, if you really want to screw with people, make more enemies immune to direct damage (earth elementals), while others are immune to critical damage (slimes). If you throw these in dungeons, you can easily lower the health of common mobs while still making things more interesting.

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Posted by: Satori.3256

Satori.3256

I think the root of the problem is this game tries to please the action gamer, the not-so-action gamer and the intellectual gamer at the same time. Berzerker armor allows one to stand in one spot and hit things, which is good for the not-so-action gamer.

Unfortunately it forces the game to have only 2 dodges, which seriously penalizes the hardcore action gamer, who would like to have at least 5 dodges per fight. (If they increased the number of dodges, I’d be quick to switch to zerker, which would become soooo overpowered!)

Likewise, because of the complexity of this game, they can’t increase the effectiveness of the toughness or healing boost to stats or the intellectual player would become unkillable, especially in groups. Perhaps they are already too OP as it is.

So in the end, you have sub par not-so-action gaming, sub par intellectual gaming and sub par action gaming. There’s no fix that won’t generate a class action lawsuit. Enjoy the game for what it is. This isn’t a niche game that does one thing exceptionally.

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

I’m not sure how to fix it, but it needs to be fixed. Lack of viable support and non max dps builds makes this game play like an expensive Vindictus in PvE (lol)

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

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Posted by: Ordika.9513

Ordika.9513

Waves fist at forums for deleting a highly detailed analysis that took 45 minutes to type

Here are the cliffnotes of my post.

  • Yes there is a problem but berzerker favoritism is just a “effect”
  • The problem has nothing to do with CoF or warriors
  • Over 50% of the people that I’ve seen post their builds use berzerker
    – Even those that use multiple sets usually post berzerker first
    – This includes pvp and wvw builds
  • Don’t take my word for it. Look through the profession forums for yourselves
  • This game has roughly 16 major stat combinations
  • With that many, berzerker should have 25% rep at most, not over half

With that said, game mechanics should be changed to favor other sets. Precision should increase the duration or stacks of conditions as well as heals and boons. Yes, there should be critical heals! Healing power should factor into how fast a player can revive another. Auras should last longer. This can get iffy with chaos armor but i see no problem in fire auras being twice as long.

Now, if you really want to screw with people, make more enemies immune to direct damage (earth elementals), while others are immune to critical damage (slimes). If you throw these in dungeons, you can easily lower the health of common mobs while still making things more interesting.

Excellent successions all.

Ordika Skirata || Keirstaad Rhith || Rhun Turold || Quinten Vigar || Ahrung Park
Swansonites of North Shiverpeak – Northern Shiverpeaks

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Posted by: Ensign.2189

Ensign.2189

Conditions have taken a lot of hits since the game was in beta. Condition builds used to scale incredibly well with crit, because of a prevalence of strong condition proc effects; those have all been nuked from orbit. Many PvE encounters are either immune to conditions (dungeon elites) or get wrecked by the condition cap (world elites). Weapon sets are poorly designed and balanced, making them either massively condition reliant (and thus weak in PvE) or disregard conditions entirely (encouraging berserker).

Defensive stats are very powerful, but become less and less necessary in PvE as you become better at encounters – invulnerability frames replace the need for defensive stats.

There are only two sets in the game without defensive stats, Berserker and Rampager. Only a small handful of weapons in the game can take advantage of Rampager gear. Condition damage takes another blow here, as you cannot spec primarily into condition damage without getting a chunk of defensive stats in the process – good for PvP, not so much for PvE.

Hence part of the problem is poor gear combinations, but the bigger problem is simply the design and balance of skills in this game. As long as invulnerability dominates defense and conditions remain ineffective there will be very little incentive to run anything other than zerker all the time.

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Posted by: Facepunch.5710

Facepunch.5710

God, how dumb are you guys? You dont see anything wrong with there being one viable gear type?

And it is the only viable gear type because…you said so? Please explain how every other gear type is inviable in the three main parts of the game (PvE, WvW and tPvP/sPvP). It will not be enough to give examples of zerker gear simply outshining other gear to a marginal degree, as the words you’ve chosen are “one viable gear type.”

Wouldn’t it be great if this forum could be a place for discussion instead of insults? Please back up your flailing comment with an actual explanation next time.

Please take your tinfoil hats off and be reasonable. ~ReginaB
This forum is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. ~DevilLordLaser

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Posted by: Chopps.5047

Chopps.5047

It makes sense that berserker does more DPS and for good reason: if it didn’t, everyone would go condi/toughness and all you’d see is bunker builds. There IS a reason for everything in this game, believe it or not.

Tin Foil Hat Hearer »—> Ranger Extraordinaire »—> “Be like water…”

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Posted by: Shootsfoot.9276

Shootsfoot.9276

God, how dumb are you guys? You dont see anything wrong with there being one viable gear type?

And it is the only viable gear type because…you said so? Please explain how every other gear type is inviable in the three main parts of the game (PvE, WvW and tPvP/sPvP). It will not be enough to give examples of zerker gear simply outshining other gear to a marginal degree, as the words you’ve chosen are “one viable gear type.”

High-level fractals where one or two hits kill you. At that point, all that matters is damage.

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Posted by: Facepunch.5710

Facepunch.5710

High-level fractals where one or two hits kill you. At that point, all that matters is damage.

I’m pretty sure that a large part of what matters is whether it is one or two hits that kills you.

Also, I don’t agree with you at all that berzerker is the only viable build for high fractals.

But even if your point hit the nail on the head in regard to what I asked for from the poster I quoted, this would be an example of one dungeon in one subsection of the game, i.e. PvE, where berzerker is the only viable gear, and would be a reflection of broken dungeon mechanics, not a lack of viable options for gear in general.

Please take your tinfoil hats off and be reasonable. ~ReginaB
This forum is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. ~DevilLordLaser

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Posted by: Shootsfoot.9276

Shootsfoot.9276

High-level fractals where one or two hits kill you. At that point, all that matters is damage.

I’m pretty sure that a large part of what matters is whether it is one or two hits that kills you.

Also, I don’t agree with you at all that berzerker is the only viable build for high fractals.

But even if your point hit the nail on the head in regard to what I asked for from the poster I quoted, this would be an example of one dungeon in one subsection of the game, i.e. PvE, where berzerker is the only viable gear, and would be a reflection of broken dungeon mechanics, not a lack of viable options for gear in general.

You’re missing my point. At that level, no amount of toughness or health is going to save you from those hits, therefore it is absolutely pointless to give up the DPS/crit for that kind of gear.

And as I’ve said in many posts before, the basic mechanics of this game is dps and dodge, so even though I prefer to run with a mace/shield on my guardian, I am reducing the dps of the group as a whole because nobody really needs my support or my heals in the dungeon.

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Posted by: Chasind.3128

Chasind.3128

‘Zerker’ is for people who have no skill what-so-ever

I usually kick a player (like a warrior/ guardian) who gets 2 shot because then they are a liability & are likely to rage quit anyways

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Posted by: Shootsfoot.9276

Shootsfoot.9276

‘Zerker’ is for people who have no skill what-so-ever

I usually kick a player (like a warrior/ guardian) who gets 2 shot because then they are a liability & are likely to rage quit anyways

Oh good. Gotta keep those “no-skill” noobs in check, right?

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Posted by: Facepunch.5710

Facepunch.5710

You’re missing my point. At that level, no amount of toughness or health is going to save you from those hits, therefore it is absolutely pointless to give up the DPS/crit for that kind of gear.
.

Actually, I understood your point just fine, and for the most part I agree with you about damage negation. That said, there is a noticeable difference, in my experience, in survivability in high level fractals or against certain dungeon bosses, e.g. Lupicus, depending on what gear you’re wearing. If you time every dodge and use every block/reflect skill when appropriate, sure you can stay alive in berserker’s. But even those of us who can and have soloed bosses like Lupi can get hit with some bad luck e.g. many poison bubbles in a row on Lupi p3. Having an extra 3k HP can and will save you in cases like this.

I am not at all trying to make an argument that berserker’s is not a fantastic gear set. I use it. I love it. I’m just saying that one cannot march in and say it’s the “one viable” set in the game. It’s just not true.

Please take your tinfoil hats off and be reasonable. ~ReginaB
This forum is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. ~DevilLordLaser

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Posted by: Shootsfoot.9276

Shootsfoot.9276

You’re missing my point. At that level, no amount of toughness or health is going to save you from those hits, therefore it is absolutely pointless to give up the DPS/crit for that kind of gear.
.

Actually, I understood your point just fine, and for the most part I agree with you about damage negation. That said, there is a noticeable difference, in my experience, in survivability in high level fractals or against certain dungeon bosses, e.g. Lupicus, depending on what gear you’re wearing. If you time every dodge and use every block/reflect skill when appropriate, sure you can stay alive in berserker’s. But even those of us who can and have soloed bosses like Lupi can get hit with some bad luck e.g. many poison bubbles in a row on Lupi p3. Having an extra 3k HP can and will save you in cases like this.

I am not at all trying to make an argument that berserker’s is not a fantastic gear set. I use it. I love it. I’m just saying that one cannot march in and say it’s the “one viable” set in the game. It’s just not true.

You’re adding to the argument. You asked for a specific place where gear differentiation really doesn’t make a difference and I told you high-level fractals.

I said nothing about Lupicus, or any of the other dungeons.

And for the record, I don’t own a single piece of berserker’s gear.

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Posted by: Awe.1096

Awe.1096

There are many aspects of the game and balacing one will also affect the other. Sure, for example healing does not scale well enough in dungeons when compared to power/crit. So buff healing? And guess what, that will make Bunkers in conquest PvP be from there and after called Unremovable Bunkers a.k.a. you need 4 people to kill me. And dont forget to buff toughness as well!

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Posted by: Chasind.3128

Chasind.3128

‘Zerker’ is for people who have no skill what-so-ever

I usually kick a player (like a warrior/ guardian) who gets 2 shot because then they are a liability & are likely to rage quit anyways

Oh good. Gotta keep those “no-skill” noobs in check, right?

lol yep

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Posted by: Mathias.9657

Mathias.9657

The only option is to nerf crit damage on items by a good amount.

Yeah let’s just make zerker gear useless.. no, bring support and condition up to par. Running pure damage is fine, because you sacrifice survival. Running anything else is not fine, because you sacrifice a ton of damage and this is a DPS game.

Maybe mobs shouldn’t have 9000000000000000 hit points

Back to WoW, make GW2 fun please.

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Posted by: Legend.6941

Legend.6941

did you hear? patch is buffing zerkers even more.

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Posted by: Sollith.3502

Sollith.3502

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/212/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-III.aspx

There’s a cap on condition stacks of 25. In a scenario where you have two thieves attacking a boss and one of them can achieve a stack of 25 by themselves, the other one essentially becomes useless because they’ve got nothing to stack on. Is anything being done to address that to make them less redundant?

Colin: Currently no. Interesting statistic for you: every condition in the game costs server bandwidth. ‘Cause we have to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is and what the stack is. So the more stacks we allow, the more expensive it gets because we’re tracking every additional stack on there. And so we could say, you can have infinite stacks. Number one: that becomes really unbalanced. But number two: it’s actually extremely expensive for us, on a performance basis. That’s one of those weird, kind of back-end server issues that can help make game designer decisions regardless of what you want to do with it.

That actually made me facepalm hard. I wonder if Devon has a different attitude towards this as it’s just plain nonsense. The only unbalance is that there’s no such cap on direct damage.

The more interesting bit is the second part of the answer. There has to be a way to make conditions scale better for the resources available during larger events.

Best guess i got is that it is related to how each intensity stack are in fact 25 timers (never mind that there seems to be a global DOT application timer that triggers the actual pr second DOT damage calculation, as a 1.5 sec bleed can actually do damage twice if there is another condition already ticking). If this is the case, i wonder if they could convert intensity stacks into a system where each second the stack is reduced by 1 (or more).

Meaning that a 25 bleed stack would take 25 seconds to drop to zero, if it was allowed to run that long.

They could perhaps even turn all conditions, and boons, into this, and introduce additional effects that would manipulate stack sizes for various results. say rather than count the unique conditions on a necro, consume conditions would also take into account the size of the stacks. Maybe have utility skills that would spend stacks of boons or conditions to do single target or aoe damage.

Those are a good start at something that might just work; I like them

I was thinking something similar to your last comment where they could be spent by having players that would have stacked deal extra damage or something when already fully stacked, creating more of an opportunity than the redundancy we currently experience.

did you hear? patch is buffing zerkers even more.

=_=’ The last thing warriors need are direct buffs. They need to just rework the class entirely to make them a bit less “damage is my playstyle” (how is that a playstyle in the first place and whoever though it would be a good idea in the first place makes me kind of wonder); give them more flexibility and less straight up damage/zerkiness. They should be a direct conflict in your face class, but I really think anet needs to rework their skills maybe even from the ground up. Referencing kendo and then exaggerating it a bit might be a good direction for them to go with the warrior (escrima would be a good reference too).

(edited by Sollith.3502)

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

There are many aspects of the game and balacing one will also affect the other. Sure, for example healing does not scale well enough in dungeons when compared to power/crit. So buff healing? And guess what, that will make Bunkers in conquest PvP be from there and after called Unremovable Bunkers a.k.a. you need 4 people to kill me. And dont forget to buff toughness as well!

You’re forgetting that the devs can split PvP and PvE changes, especially if they are simple scaling/number differences. They are even adding in WvW split too, if I’m not mistaken.