Guild Wars 2

So you want them to hold your hands? You are meant to figure out the correct strategy. With time people will start to realize this isn’t your typical zerg stand still and press #1 boss like shatterer and is more like Teq where you actually need to coordinate. Once people figure that out and figure out a strat things will go more smoothly. From what I’ve heard it’s not a hard boss. It just will take some practice.

No im not upset about not defeating the thing. Im kittened that ANet provides ZERO help IN GAME to even give anyone a clue what to do. I’ve had enough of the blind leading the blind mob clusterkitten lagfest. And this kind of lack of direction makes me hate the living story, because it MIGHT have been fun if not for lack of IN GAME clues.

You need to wait until Dulfy finishes a guide for this living story. Like how to collect all those fragment kitten to get to that thing and so on

Sure it was not exactly fun, but it is sorta ok, because it is something needing new tactics and it is new to everyone so it takes time to figure out.

I noticed with wurms that they seem to have different strategies going. I was at amber wurm head, and reading the slick skin buff/condition it has it said it needed to be damaged with some harpoon spear something with its spit on it or some such… just could not find anything and the group that was there with me was dessolving and getting overpowered by the number of adds.
I am sure within a days time or so people will begin to understand what to do and there will be more successes.

I was getting a bit upset myself, about it all, but a little breather and things are fine. People did not defeat the new Tequatl right away either right.

we had crimson to 75% earlier. cobalt and amber were 100, but, still. better than a 98% across the board right?

Hmm, Anet provided how much help with Teq? And it took how long for players to figure it out?

Honestly, either the huge number of people we had still wasn’t enough, or this thing is just stupidly designed and broken. We had a big group, all doing the right thing on amber, and got it down to 50%. I’m not terribly amused. That was with people focusing on getting plague and getting eaten to load the spear gun, and shooting it with the speargun to make the kitten ed thing vulnerable, while moving as an enormous stack so we could ward off all the pointless adds. I think we did a kitten ed good job, and yet 50%. I’m not going to bother again, not until I hear word that it’s going down reliably.

Have you ever played a game with a raid system?

If you do end up uninstalling, don’t go to games where raids are end game content.

The OP hates how every patch a bunch of random content is added to the game and doesn’t point you in any sort of direction, and that people are forced to use dulfy guides to get things done. And that every patch is for pve, and that every patch that is always for pve is always about mega zerging and relying on random people which means you always fail.

Wow, just wow.

Did you ever play any other MMO and did any sort of raid content at all? Raids are supposed to be figured out by players. It’s usually the hardest content available in a MMO.

What did you expect a guide how to kill a world boss in patch notes? jeez.

zMajc.4659:

Wow, just wow.

Did you ever play any other MMO and did any sort of raid content at all? Raids are supposed to be figured out by players. It’s usually the hardest content available in a MMO.

What did you expect a guide how to kill a world boss in patch notes? jeez.

In EQ2 it is 24 people, in an instance, all knowing their roles, skills, knowledge of scripting, tells, etc. They also know what mechanics to look for. There are no randoms wandering in, no players who just “happened” to be there. In that context it is appropriate to force the learning of the “strat”. Everyone in a serious Raid is expected to know exactly what where when and how to do things.

This boss is open world content, in a game that promotes and encourages spontaneous participation. You cannot expect everyone to know scripts, to know where to be and not be, and you cannot expect universal voice communication. You CAN expect the clueless. You cannot expect raid type coordination. This is Casual content.

You cannot even remotely compare this with raiding, no matter how much the psuedo raiders would like to do so.

In Game hints. “protect the golems!” “watch the ledges”. Perhaps a conversation with a Vigil Tactician. Anything to help prepare the player who doesn’t live on forums, reddit, dulfy and any other venue and just logs in to play a game.

“In EQ2 it is 24 people, in an instance, all knowing their roles, skills, knowledge of scripting, tells, etc. They also know what mechanics to look for. There are no randoms wandering in, no players who just “happened” to be there. In that context it is appropriate to force the learning of the “strat”. Everyone in a serious Raid is expected to know exactly what where when and how to do things.”

Have you ever done a raid when it’s first released? (aka “exploration mode”)
Don’t people use online guides to know what mechanics to look for, to know what to do and where to do it?

Or do you expect people in that game to know exactly what to expect from the AI without reading about it or without previous practice, even if the raid was just released?

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

This boss is open world content, in a game that promotes and encourages spontaneous participation. You cannot expect everyone to know scripts, to know where to be and not be, and you cannot expect universal voice communication. You CAN expect the clueless. You cannot expect raid type coordination. This is Casual content.

You cannot even remotely compare this with raiding, no matter how much the psuedo raiders would like to do so.

In Game hints. “protect the golems!” “watch the ledges”. Perhaps a conversation with a Vigil Tactician. Anything to help prepare the player who doesn’t live on forums, reddit, dulfy and any other venue and just logs in to play a game.

Logged in the forums just to quote this text and completely agree with it.

Alukah.2063:

“In EQ2 it is 24 people, in an instance, all knowing their roles, skills, knowledge of scripting, tells, etc. They also know what mechanics to look for. There are no randoms wandering in, no players who just “happened” to be there. In that context it is appropriate to force the learning of the “strat”. Everyone in a serious Raid is expected to know exactly what where when and how to do things.”

Have you ever done a raid when it’s first released? (aka “exploration mode”)
Don’t people use online guides to know what mechanics to look for, to know what to do and where to do it?

Or do you expect people in that game to know exactly what to expect from the AI without reading about it or without previous practice, even if the raid was just released?

+5 for snipping my post out of context. Experienced Raiders will learn raid strats far faster then 24 random people who wander into an area. Raiders know, or should know, when they enter that instance it is not going to be “tank n spank”. This is not the situation in open, everyone welcome content. People will, and should be expected to wander into this prepared to stack and spam 1111 and not much else, why not.. works everywhere else.

Raiders go into new content prepared and expecting to “learn the Strat”. Once learned and posted, expected to “know the strat”.

This is never, ever, going to apply in open world content where anyone and everyone can wander in knowing nothing and expecting to complete it like most of the “boss” content in game.

Let’s see …

- The fight begins with 3 npc’s with event descriptions saying you need to escort them each to their own location.

- When you arrive there a Massive (Cobalt) Wurm with a immunity shield wpawns.

- Event description now shows Wurm’s HP and 0/20 barrels written under it. And there is a barrel shown on map where people canpick up barrels.

What’s there to figure out or unclear? i mean seriously….

Open world bosses with raid boss quality that actually require an insane raidsize and coordination in a non-endgame zone with limited player spots in the zone itself or you go into an overflow and is totally not appropriate for the level players have when they quest in the area?

I said it when Tequatl was redone, I say it again, this is bad game design. It is the worst open world game design I have seen in 15 years of MMO gaming.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I said it when Tequatl was redone, I say it again, this is bad game design. It is the worst open world game design I have seen in 15 years of MMO gaming.

I couldn’t disagree with you more, this content is amazing, it requires strategy and intelligent thinking from the community. Clearly a huge number of players are also drinking it up and loving it.
For the most part map chat is friendly with very little omgwtf usuck infantile comments from players.
The commanders are doing a fine job. The rewards even for failure seem reasonable (which i will give, is a 1st in this game) And i might add even the overflows i have had the pleasure of playing in are getting close to sorting this fight out.

Menzzo Berranzan.8379:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I said it when Tequatl was redone, I say it again, this is bad game design. It is the worst open world game design I have seen in 15 years of MMO gaming.

I couldn’t disagree with you more, this content is amazing, it requires strategy and intelligent thinking from the community. Clearly a huge number of players are also drinking it up and loving it.
For the most part map chat is friendly with very little omgwtf usuck infantile comments from players.
The commanders are doing a fine job. The rewards even for failure seem reasonable (which i will give, is a 1st in this game) And i might add even the overflows i have had the pleasure of playing in are getting close to sorting this fight out.

Because now the boss is the big new thing. It will be as dead as Tequatl on most any server after two weeks, a waste of development time and a toxic spot for people leveling in the zone.

Wow, sounds great!

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I am so sick of these things. Yes, I’m frustrated. I tried the jungle wurm garbage. What a fun time… not. Time up and boss(es??) were at 98%. So many champs spawn, and no one knows what to do. There’s no help in game. AT ALL. This kind of stuff makes me hate this game and want to uninstall it.

He wants the silver platter to be handed over to him. Of course no knows what to do they just released it. Typical whiner like you will whine about everything in this game just because you cant get what you want…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Menzzo Berranzan.8379:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I said it when Tequatl was redone, I say it again, this is bad game design. It is the worst open world game design I have seen in 15 years of MMO gaming.

I couldn’t disagree with you more, this content is amazing, it requires strategy and intelligent thinking from the community. Clearly a huge number of players are also drinking it up and loving it.
For the most part map chat is friendly with very little omgwtf usuck infantile comments from players.
The commanders are doing a fine job. The rewards even for failure seem reasonable (which i will give, is a 1st in this game) And i might add even the overflows i have had the pleasure of playing in are getting close to sorting this fight out.

Because now the boss is the big new thing. It will be as dead as Tequatl on most any server after two weeks, a waste of development time and a toxic spot for people leveling in the zone.

Wow, sounds great!

So Tequatl isn’t tons of times a day? Why do you keep banging this drum when you know people kill Tequatl all the time.

The events won’t be dead. The people who like organization will do them. And you know, it’s okay for some stuff to be geared towards people who like that sort of thing.

There are plenty of easy, mindless events for everyone else.

It is not the event, it is the placement.

The placement is bad game design. For all the flaws listed.
We know, Vayne, that you will defend everything for the sake of defending it. That is OK, but you loose credibility if all you do is praising the Lord (ANet).

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It is not the event, it is the placement.

The placement is bad game design. For all the flaws listed.
We know, Vayne, that you will defend everything for the sake of defending it. That is OK, but you loose credibility if all you do is praising the Lord (ANet).

Completely offensive, not to mention demonstrably untrue. The Tequatl fight is what I’m talking about, and it’s fine. It works. People do it. You don’t do it. You keep bringing it up like it was a failure…if no one did it, it wouldn’t be there. Anet would have to change it.

It hasn’t changed because people do it.

In fact, I got one of the cool looking pistol skins from there last week for my thief.

The game does not have to have a zillion easy roll over events, just because a challenge scares some people and they don’t want to take the time and effort to do it. People have been begging for harder content. I’m happy Anet is producing harder content.

And the more you say I never say anything negative about Anet the more credibility you lose because I have said quite a few negative things about Anet.

That doesn’t mean I don’t defend the game when I think someone has it wrong. Saying no one does Teq….definitely wrong.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

ZERO help IN GAME to even give anyone a clue what to do

Emphasis mine. So on my first attempt at the cobalt wurm (I think, the one with the bombs). We went rushing in and started to attack it. “0 damage”, “invulnerable”. Hmmm… Inspects surrounds and notices that a NPC is giving us a kittenING CLUE: “The skin is too tough, maybe if we get it to eat bombs we can attack it.” Next thing you know the event window is giving me a kittenING CLUE that says “0/20 barrels”. The mini-map and HUD also contains this kittenING CLUE where there is a big red barrel. Hmm I wonder what I must do?

I know! Clearly the logical thing to do would be to come onto the forums and post about ANet not giving us any clues as to what to do – holding our hands and telling us EXACTLY what to do is technically not giving us clues so there is a problem here.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It is not the event, it is the placement player.

Fixed it for you. I remember someone harping on in a thread on these forums (I think the specific boss was Jormag) saying “Oooh how awesome would it be to have the events all over the map!” and all of us were like “oh man that would totes be the kittens.” Well now we have said epic event.

This game really needs one of these:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It is not the event, it is the placement.

The placement is bad game design. For all the flaws listed.
We know, Vayne, that you will defend everything for the sake of defending it. That is OK, but you loose credibility if all you do is praising the Lord (ANet).

Completely offensive, not to mention demonstrably untrue. The Tequatl fight is what I’m talking about, and it’s fine. It works. People do it. You don’t do it. You keep bringing it up like it was a failure…if no one did it, it wouldn’t be there. Anet would have to change it.

It hasn’t changed because people do it.

In fact, I got one of the cool looking pistol skins from there last week for my thief.

The game does not have to have a zillion easy roll over events, just because a challenge scares some people and they don’t want to take the time and effort to do it. People have been begging for harder content. I’m happy Anet is producing harder content.

And the more you say I never say anything negative about Anet the more credibility you lose because I have said quite a few negative things about Anet.

That doesn’t mean I don’t defend the game when I think someone has it wrong. Saying no one does Teq….definitely wrong.

On Fort Aspenwood, no one does Teq. Fact. “lots of times” on a very few servers does not a success make. Now… feel free to tell me what I “really” stated.

Kimhyuna.1035:

You know what isnt fun? The 2 hr wait.

The overflow system isn’t much fun either. Last night I got on to our own server event for the marionette but it was well after midnight. Of course we didn’t quite have enough people there.

This system of “too many and overflow” or “not enough and fail” is really poor design.

But you know, we’re talking about the Living Story, so Colin is happy!

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It is not the event, it is the placement.

let’s look at where it is.
An out of the way area of Lornar’s Pass which players with a level native to the area have no reason to visit except for the exploration poi. And they can get this in the 1 1/2 hours when the event is not on.
This event is perfectly placed in the open world so as not to interfere with native level characters

IndigoSundown.5419:

Hmm, Anet provided how much help with Teq? And it took how long for players to figure it out?

teqatl only had one new mechanic

use turrets to debuff him

here we had 3 super wurms each with new mechanics and all they gave was a hint in their description wich dint really make sense unless you already knew what to do

Alukah.2063:

Have you ever played a game with a raid system?

If you do end up uninstalling, don’t go to games where raids are end game content.

Thats why i started GW2 .. because i hate raids and GW2 had no raids.

The other reason was that GW2 had no gear progression ..

so now i wait for the next tier of items that is only available through raids.

Like in all events, in your right up corner is a simple describtion how to do it. Learn to read. If there are 2 or 3 options left you could do what’s written there try one, if it doesn’t work try something else.
This goes for mobs too. If you read the short tips standing under its name you can probalby figure out what to do.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

It is not the event, it is the placement.

The placement is bad game design. For all the flaws listed.
We know, Vayne, that you will defend everything for the sake of defending it. That is OK, but you loose credibility if all you do is praising the Lord (ANet).

Completely offensive, not to mention demonstrably untrue. The Tequatl fight is what I’m talking about, and it’s fine. It works. People do it. You don’t do it. You keep bringing it up like it was a failure…if no one did it, it wouldn’t be there. Anet would have to change it.

It hasn’t changed because people do it.

In fact, I got one of the cool looking pistol skins from there last week for my thief.

The game does not have to have a zillion easy roll over events, just because a challenge scares some people and they don’t want to take the time and effort to do it. People have been begging for harder content. I’m happy Anet is producing harder content.

And the more you say I never say anything negative about Anet the more credibility you lose because I have said quite a few negative things about Anet.

That doesn’t mean I don’t defend the game when I think someone has it wrong. Saying no one does Teq….definitely wrong.

On Fort Aspenwood, no one does Teq. Fact. “lots of times” on a very few servers does not a success make. Now… feel free to tell me what I “really” stated.

It’s 100% completely irrelevant if Teq is done ON a server, or ON an overflow. The question now becomes, how many people on Fort Aspenwood have taken the two minutes required to join a TTS guild, and how many of those people run Teq regularly.

To look at a single zone when Teq is almost always done on an overflow and say this server doesn’t do it is a half truth at best. I guarantee you there are people on FA that run Tequatl several times a week.

Does that mean FA doesn’t do Tequatl or did the people on FA decide to do Tequatl in an organized manner?

This was my experience on Gunner’s Hold last evening:

1- Go to the Lorner’s Pass for the 21:00 robo-puppet event.
2- Fail event, instant death ..
3- Go to Bloodtide for Wurm event, wind up on overflow …
4- Start escort events, 2 succeed, 3rd one stalls due to the pirate bug, no wurm …
5- Go back to Lorner’s Pass for the 23:00 robo-puppet event, wind up on overflow …
6- Fail event, instant death ..

I would rank this as 0 fun and 3hrs wasted time …

GG Anet ..

The lack of help is intentional. It’s to promote community. Like it or lump it, almost all MMO endgame boils down to that approach.

lol really? I understand. Most people actually enjoy content where they can just stack in a corner and pull while drinking tea.

bri.2359:

This was my experience on Gunner’s Hold last evening:

1- Go to the Lorner’s Pass for the 21:00 robo-puppet event.
2- Fail event, instant death ..
3- Go to Bloodtide for Wurm event, wind up on overflow …
4- Start escort events, 2 succeed, 3rd one stalls due to the pirate bug, no wurm …
5- Go back to Lorner’s Pass for the 23:00 robo-puppet event, wind up on overflow …
6- Fail event, instant death ..

I would rank this as 0 fun and 3hrs wasted time …

GG Anet ..

Something similar has been my experience with most LS updates. This is what you get when content is rushed into the game with the notion that it will only be there for a couple of weeks.

I don’t think it’s necessary that Anet make their content really easy or hold your hand excessively, but this game frequently suffers from too little context/direction in general, making it feel like a frustrating mess to play. It’s a direct consequence of the content delivery style.

Gallows.4318:

lol really? I understand. Most people actually enjoy content where they can just stack in a corner and pull while drinking tea.

Pretty much….

People want the best shinies, for the least amount of effort possible, and the least amount of time. While still being able to show off how ‘awesomesauce’ they apparently are. They don’t want to have to put in any effort what-so-ever.

While I admit I got a little lost during the wurm event, I can say by paying attention to my environment (not easy at 1FPS mind you), I did figure out what needed to be done. We still failed, but trying was fun and I look forward to trying again tonight.

For the marionette, we also lost. However, I got there early enough that I could ask for a quick overview of what to expect, and lo-n-behold…not one, but 6 people offered me more information than I was really after. Although having participated in it once, I don’t think it would have been that difficult to figure out really. Not with the bright yellow messages popping in the middle of my screen telling me what was happening or what to do….

Perhaps your expectations of succes on the first, second or third attempt is the issue. It’s a challenge. Figure it out and help people at the event figure it out.

For goodness’ sake, there’s no reason ANet should provide us with help.

It’s a difficult encounter. It’s supposed to be. It’s a worldboss. Think of all the optional "super"bosses in the Final Fantasy series!

I may have my problems with the LS, but I welcome difficult, optional content like this. Gives the game more variety.

Gallows.4318:

lol really? I understand. Most people actually enjoy content where they can just stack in a corner and pull while drinking tea.

Hah, I’m drinking tea & playing GW2 right now.

Gallows.4318:

Perhaps your expectations of succes on the first, second or third attempt is the issue. It’s a challenge. Figure it out and help people at the event figure it out.

Sorry, but no.
There is a difference between challenging content and buggy, poorly designed/implemented content that leaves players frustrated …

Too much of the LS has been the latter and not the former ..

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Open world bosses with raid boss quality that actually require an insane raidsize and coordination in a non-endgame zone with limited player spots in the zone itself or you go into an overflow and is totally not appropriate for the level players have when they quest in the area?

I said it when Tequatl was redone, I say it again, this is bad game design. It is the worst open world game design I have seen in 15 years of MMO gaming.

I very much disagree. I actually like teq. And it isn’t a hard fight. It only requires a bit of coordination. The game needs MORE of that, not less. The only thing they might want to tweak is that they should make it scale a bit better so that you don’t need a huge, huge group to complete the event. That might make it easier for smaller servers at least. Keep the current difficulty with massive amounts of players though.

I kind of feel if we had kill it on day 1 of living story coming out then Anet not doing there job.

The point is to keep you working it out and keep you at it for a bit longer. When one works it out one then have more fun at it.
There way too many who wants to eat the cake right away with out taking your time to enjoy. When that happens they take the fun out of game for others.

Personally, I am of two minds. I want more challenging content, but I also would like more interaction with PC’s necessary to make the new challenges fun to do beyond just pressing skill buttons. Also, I think that hints, even very vague ones, would be nice from PC’s on the challenges would be great too. I don’t want to know how to fight the battle, but I don’t just want to wander aimlessly around either.

bri.2359:

1- Go to the Lorner’s Pass for the 21:00 robo-puppet event.
2- Fail event, instant death ..
…
5- Go back to Lorner’s Pass for the 23:00 robo-puppet event, wind up on overflow …
6- Fail event, instant death ..

Let me get this right, the lack of a challenge means the event is fun?

I’m starting to wonder if ANet should just provide a “loot button” that we can mash with our baby dummies while we blankly stare at our screens, drooling.

I find that 90% of the time I learn what to do from Dulfy. I think that’s a mistake of design. I should be able to figure it out from clues left around the world.

Also, once again, they’ve added a level of unnecessary grind to draw out the path to a pitiful reward. (not that I know what the reward is history suggests)

Some of you fail to even read what I wrote, or maybe you just cannot comprehend English.

I am not asking for, nor expecting, instant success.
I am not saying it should be easy.
I am not saying I want to stand around and spam 1 (in fact I do like a good challenge).
I am saying THERE IS NO HELP IN GAME ON WHAT TO DO.
I am saying THERE IS TONS OF LAG DUE TO REQUIREMENT ON HAVING 100 PEOPLE PLUS 100 CONSTANTLY SPAWNING MOBS.
I am saying IT WAS IRRITATING INSTEAD OF FUN.

Do you get it yet? Or is it just beyond you?

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Some of you fail to even read what I wrote, or maybe you just cannot comprehend English.

I am not asking for, nor expecting, instant success.
I am not saying it should be easy.
I am not saying I want to stand around and spam 1 (in fact I do like a good challenge).
I am saying THERE IS NO HELP IN GAME ON WHAT TO DO.
I am saying THERE IS TONS OF LAG DUE TO REQUIREMENT ON HAVING 100 PEOPLE PLUS 100 CONSTANTLY SPAWNING MOBS.
I am saying IT WAS IRRITATING INSTEAD OF FUN.

Do you get it yet? Or is it just beyond you?

Most servers have got it figured out already. It’s now down to which servers can actually pull it off in practise.

The fact that it requires around 120-150 people to complete is a bit much though.

zMajc.4659:

Wow, just wow.

Did you ever play any other MMO and did any sort of raid content at all? Raids are supposed to be figured out by players. It’s usually the hardest content available in a MMO.

What did you expect a guide how to kill a world boss in patch notes? jeez.

We could have info popping out like that.
It could be a lot helpful and commanders shouldn’t write what to do every single time.

Sad part is this content is total trash.

The mechanics are actually quite simple.

The ONLY difficulty is trying to organize a zerg of people you have never met before to do the few mechanics that need to be done. I don’t know about anyone else but I didnt buy GW2 to play a human resource management sim.

I have lost all faith in Anet designing anything worthwhile in this game.

They give plenty of information through NPCs, interactive objects, and the status bar.
Too bad people don’t read them.