I don’t think players hate Raid dungeons because they are Raids or large groups doing things together. I think many players just don’t like treadmill grinds and that little beast that comes with that, the “Power Creep”.
I also think players can accept these open world zergs because it’s a decent way to make gold. It’s also something you don’t have to do because anything you can get by joining such zergs you can get by doing pretty much anything else in the game. Treadmill instanced Raids aren’t usually set up like that. They usually hold the top tier for now stuff till something better comes along.
However, open world raids in those other games are kind of set up like that(the zerg champ farm that is). Those open world raid bosses usually have side grades and novelty items. (or upgrades for those who need it). Those aren’t gated content though.
I personally love raiding. Love doing content in large groups. I just don’t like the treadmill gearing process. I think Teq is a great example of what could happen if GW2 had instanced large party raids. The only problem is getting players to continue to do it. That right there is the strong point of gearing treadmills. To get into optimal gear, you have to do them. So they only die when new stuff comes out.
Because raids are part of traditional MMOs such as WoW, EQ, LotR, ect. Champ farming isn’t.
GW2 is supposed to be different than all those MMOs. It’s a whole different mindset and all that bullkitten.
And GW2 doesn’t have a grind. Just saying. Nor does it have any kind of treadmill.
It’s not as if people are doing champ farms/WvW zergs to get any kind of gear, right? Nor are you doing it to get a legendary or any kind of dungeon armour. It’s mats and/or tokens. That’s totally different from any other kind of MMO. At least in the view of the people who are disillusioned.
Your finger is far from the pulse of the games you mentioned. They all include meta events and champion farming at this point in time btw, while including raiding now.
Because raids are part of traditional MMOs such as WoW, EQ, LotR, ect. Champ farming isn’t.
GW2 is supposed to be different than all those MMOs. It’s a whole different mindset and all that bullkitten.
And GW2 doesn’t have a grind. Just saying. Nor does it have any kind of treadmill.
It’s not as if people are doing champ farms/WvW zergs to get any kind of gear, right? Nor are you doing it to get a legendary or any kind of dungeon armour. It’s mats and/or tokens. That’s totally different from any other kind of MMO. At least in the view of the people who are disillusioned.
Your finger is far from the pulse of the games you mentioned. They all include meta events and champion farming at this point in time btw, while including raiding now.
That was the direction of my post while saying GW2 is different. I hope you understand what I’m trying to say now.
“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides
Often people associate raid concept with gear treadmill of traditional MMOs, that’s where most of hate comes.
Personally I’d love to see introduced some raid content in GW2 as far as it doesn’t turn in a farm to obtain a specific item.
Stemare ~ Guardian ~ lv80 ~ Far Shiverpeaks
Ci Assediamo Da Soli [SIGH] ~ Officier
Often people associate raid concept with gear treadmill of traditional MMOs, that’s where most of hate comes.
Personally I’d love to see introduced some raid content in GW2 as far as it doesn’t turn in a farm to obtain a specific item.
Yet people are farming these champs the same reason as people farmed Raids.
To get loot! Magic Find Magic Find, oh nice I just got thing nice item off that champion.
Oh nice I got something I can salvage for expensive mats.
I dont understand, how the you all Love Champion Zergs but hate the concept of Raid Dungeons.
Can somebody explain the reasoning behind this?
I see many players joining and asking about the Champion Zerg train, to get their gear grind on.
Yet pre-release you all were saying how much you hated Raid Dungeons for the same reason.
they both consist of large groups of players, tackling a powerful NPC to get some PvE loot rewards or faction grind.
IMO, Raid Dungeons offer a different level of challenges that these open world fights simply cant do.
Why like the Zerg but hate the Raid Dungeons?!
Because raids are part of traditional MMOs such as WoW, EQ, LotR, ect. Champ farming isn’t.
GW2 is supposed to be different than all those MMOs. It’s a whole different mindset and all that bullkitten.
And GW2 doesn’t have a grind. Just saying. Nor does it have any kind of treadmill.
It’s not as if people are doing champ farms/WvW zergs to get any kind of gear, right? Nor are you doing it to get a legendary or any kind of dungeon armour. It’s mats and/or tokens. That’s totally different from any other kind of MMO. At least in the view of the people who are disillusioned.
Zergs are also part of traditional MMOs as well. Just like lots of other things. Why get rid of Raids, because its similar to something in another game, but using that same reason, not get rid of everything else that is similar to what other MMOs do, such kitten man party dungeons. Lots of MMOs have that. Why not get rid of that as well since its all about being different?
And GW2 has plenty of grind. This whole discussion started off talking about that very grind.
Champion Farming, for loot is a grind. Legendaries, are a grind.
WvW ranks are a grind. Achievements, are a grind. there are so many grinds in this game that it is unbelievable that people actually believed, and still believe Anet’s original marketing that GW2 would have no grind. Even after Anet themselves said they had to change away from that ideal.
There are already plenty of discussions about raids in the suggestions forum.
If you really want to know, you should go and read the threads there as there are hundreds of posts already.
But Knighthonor.406, why are you still playing? From your other posts, you dislike almost everything about the game and want the devs to turn it in to a generic game with the same features in all the rest, so why are you still playing? It really does not make any sense. Instead of complaining about everything that you want in this game that they have in WoW or Rift, why are you not playing those games instead?
IMO, Raid Dungeons offer a different level of challenges that these open world fights simply cant do.
Why like the Zerg but hate the Raid Dungeons?
You just answered you own question.
Raids are traditionally very organized affairs that involve coordination, skill and gear checks. The average joe running around in GW2’s Champion zergs will likely not meet any of the three criteria. Think of the Teq fight, but more difficult and balanced around way fewer people so that every person involved will have a larger role that everyone else will depend on. You think the average Champ zerger can be trusted to that degree?
Therefore, Raids just mean a complete brick wall for the majority of the people in this game. Whereas in a Champ zerg, any scrub can follow the zerg and press 1 until it drops, and then get some nice free loot.
I think a lot of people objected to having to work to learn the Raid mechanism – as well as the skill checks, gear checks, organization, etc – as they knew with certainty that they would never be able to complete Raids and be perpetually locked out of ever attaining the best gear. However, like I mentioned, if it only involves running around in a zerg that involves almost no skill, and get rewards still, then they’re all OK with it.
Because Zergs are easy in easy out type game play, you join when you want to get your loot (carrots) then leave when you feel like it, you don’t affect anyone else.
Raids require coordination, setting up, getting everyone online at the right times etc and can be huge hassles and commitments, not to mention massive dramas..
That’s my take on why the latter doesn’t work at least in GW2.
I dont understand, how the you all Love Champion Zergs but hate the concept of Raid Dungeons.
Can somebody explain the reasoning behind this?
I see many players joining and asking about the Champion Zerg train, to get their gear grind on.
Yet pre-release you all were saying how much you hated Raid Dungeons for the same reason.
they both consist of large groups of players, tackling a powerful NPC to get some PvE loot rewards or faction grind.
IMO, Raid Dungeons offer a different level of challenges that these open world fights simply cant do.
Why like the Zerg but hate the Raid Dungeons?!
Because raids are part of traditional MMOs such as WoW, EQ, LotR, ect. Champ farming isn’t.
GW2 is supposed to be different than all those MMOs. It’s a whole different mindset and all that bullkitten.
And GW2 doesn’t have a grind. Just saying. Nor does it have any kind of treadmill.
It’s not as if people are doing champ farms/WvW zergs to get any kind of gear, right? Nor are you doing it to get a legendary or any kind of dungeon armour. It’s mats and/or tokens. That’s totally different from any other kind of MMO. At least in the view of the people who are disillusioned.
Zergs are also part of traditional MMOs as well. Just like lots of other things. Why get rid of Raids, because its similar to something in another game, but using that same reason, not get rid of everything else that is similar to what other MMOs do, such kitten man party dungeons. Lots of MMOs have that. Why not get rid of that as well since its all about being different?
And GW2 has plenty of grind. This whole discussion started off talking about that very grind.
Champion Farming, for loot is a grind. Legendaries, are a grind.
WvW ranks are a grind. Achievements, are a grind. there are so many grinds in this game that it is unbelievable that people actually believed, and still believe Anet’s original marketing that GW2 would have no grind. Even after Anet themselves said they had to change away from that ideal.
I’m not even going to try anymore. Is it really that hard to understand what I was aiming at?
“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides
I dont understand, how the you all Love Champion Zergs but hate the concept of Raid Dungeons.
Can somebody explain the reasoning behind this?
I see many players joining and asking about the Champion Zerg train, to get their gear grind on.
Yet pre-release you all were saying how much you hated Raid Dungeons for the same reason.
they both consist of large groups of players, tackling a powerful NPC to get some PvE loot rewards or faction grind.
IMO, Raid Dungeons offer a different level of challenges that these open world fights simply cant do.
Why like the Zerg but hate the Raid Dungeons?!
Because raids are part of traditional MMOs such as WoW, EQ, LotR, ect. Champ farming isn’t.
GW2 is supposed to be different than all those MMOs. It’s a whole different mindset and all that bullkitten.
And GW2 doesn’t have a grind. Just saying. Nor does it have any kind of treadmill.
It’s not as if people are doing champ farms/WvW zergs to get any kind of gear, right? Nor are you doing it to get a legendary or any kind of dungeon armour. It’s mats and/or tokens. That’s totally different from any other kind of MMO. At least in the view of the people who are disillusioned.
Zergs are also part of traditional MMOs as well. Just like lots of other things. Why get rid of Raids, because its similar to something in another game, but using that same reason, not get rid of everything else that is similar to what other MMOs do, such kitten man party dungeons. Lots of MMOs have that. Why not get rid of that as well since its all about being different?
And GW2 has plenty of grind. This whole discussion started off talking about that very grind.
Champion Farming, for loot is a grind. Legendaries, are a grind.
WvW ranks are a grind. Achievements, are a grind. there are so many grinds in this game that it is unbelievable that people actually believed, and still believe Anet’s original marketing that GW2 would have no grind. Even after Anet themselves said they had to change away from that ideal.
I’m not even going to try anymore. Is it really that hard to understand what I was aiming at?
Yeah pretty much, because countered your own argument by saying the game has no grind, but in the same breath talk about farming…
There are already plenty of discussions about raids in the suggestions forum.
If you really want to know, you should go and read the threads there as there are hundreds of posts already.
But Knighthonor.406, why are you still playing? From your other posts, you dislike almost everything about the game and want the devs to turn it in to a generic game with the same features in all the rest, so why are you still playing? It really does not make any sense. Instead of complaining about everything that you want in this game that they have in WoW or Rift, why are you not playing those games instead?
I could say the same about your post history. All your post are negative about Anet. So why do you still play any of their games (including GW1)?
I dont understand, how the you all Love Champion Zergs but hate the concept of Raid Dungeons.
Can somebody explain the reasoning behind this?
I see many players joining and asking about the Champion Zerg train, to get their gear grind on.
Yet pre-release you all were saying how much you hated Raid Dungeons for the same reason.
they both consist of large groups of players, tackling a powerful NPC to get some PvE loot rewards or faction grind.
IMO, Raid Dungeons offer a different level of challenges that these open world fights simply cant do.
Why like the Zerg but hate the Raid Dungeons?!
Because raids are part of traditional MMOs such as WoW, EQ, LotR, ect. Champ farming isn’t.
GW2 is supposed to be different than all those MMOs. It’s a whole different mindset and all that bullkitten.
And GW2 doesn’t have a grind. Just saying. Nor does it have any kind of treadmill.
It’s not as if people are doing champ farms/WvW zergs to get any kind of gear, right? Nor are you doing it to get a legendary or any kind of dungeon armour. It’s mats and/or tokens. That’s totally different from any other kind of MMO. At least in the view of the people who are disillusioned.
Zergs are also part of traditional MMOs as well. Just like lots of other things. Why get rid of Raids, because its similar to something in another game, but using that same reason, not get rid of everything else that is similar to what other MMOs do, such kitten man party dungeons. Lots of MMOs have that. Why not get rid of that as well since its all about being different?
And GW2 has plenty of grind. This whole discussion started off talking about that very grind.
Champion Farming, for loot is a grind. Legendaries, are a grind.
WvW ranks are a grind. Achievements, are a grind. there are so many grinds in this game that it is unbelievable that people actually believed, and still believe Anet’s original marketing that GW2 would have no grind. Even after Anet themselves said they had to change away from that ideal.
I’m not even going to try anymore. Is it really that hard to understand what I was aiming at?
Yeah pretty much, because countered your own argument by saying the game has no grind, but in the same breath talk about farming…
I dont understand, how the you all Love Champion Zergs but hate the concept of Raid Dungeons.
Can somebody explain the reasoning behind this?
I see many players joining and asking about the Champion Zerg train, to get their gear grind on.
Yet pre-release you all were saying how much you hated Raid Dungeons for the same reason.
they both consist of large groups of players, tackling a powerful NPC to get some PvE loot rewards or faction grind.
IMO, Raid Dungeons offer a different level of challenges that these open world fights simply cant do.
Why like the Zerg but hate the Raid Dungeons?!
Because raids are part of traditional MMOs such as WoW, EQ, LotR, ect. Champ farming isn’t.
GW2 is supposed to be different than all those MMOs. It’s a whole different mindset and all that bullkitten.
And GW2 doesn’t have a grind. Just saying. Nor does it have any kind of treadmill.
It’s not as if people are doing champ farms/WvW zergs to get any kind of gear, right? Nor are you doing it to get a legendary or any kind of dungeon armour. It’s mats and/or tokens. That’s totally different from any other kind of MMO. At least in the view of the people who are disillusioned.
Zergs are also part of traditional MMOs as well. Just like lots of other things. Why get rid of Raids, because its similar to something in another game, but using that same reason, not get rid of everything else that is similar to what other MMOs do, such kitten man party dungeons. Lots of MMOs have that. Why not get rid of that as well since its all about being different?
And GW2 has plenty of grind. This whole discussion started off talking about that very grind.
Champion Farming, for loot is a grind. Legendaries, are a grind.
WvW ranks are a grind. Achievements, are a grind. there are so many grinds in this game that it is unbelievable that people actually believed, and still believe Anet’s original marketing that GW2 would have no grind. Even after Anet themselves said they had to change away from that ideal.
I’m not even going to try anymore. Is it really that hard to understand what I was aiming at?
Yeah pretty much, because countered your own argument by saying the game has no grind, but in the same breath talk about farming…
Because Zergs are easy in easy out type game play, you join when you want to get your loot (carrots) then leave when you feel like it, you don’t affect anyone else.
Raids require coordination, setting up, getting everyone online at the right times etc.
My thoughts exactly.
I have nothing against raiding. But not long after trying raiding in some MMOs I realized that it was terribly impossible for me to pull off. Finding a guild that worked with your schedule, etc was just not worth the effort.
I love that I can drop in and out at my own free will with GW2s setup. Even with the new Tequatl fight, as long as I show up and know what to do with the position I am in then I am not hurting anyone. Most days I come in do a handful of bosses or events, and then just leave. Never having to feel bad I ditched the group or find someone to take my place. Its all on me personally.
I think this mindset that they were going for was to be more casual friendly. Because casual raiding is almost extinct. Sure you might find a guild that only raids on weekends. At least with the current setup as long as you show up at the time a boss fight starts then you are good to go.
Raid Dungeons offer a different level of challenges that these open world fights simply cant do.
I like my loots, fun and easy. Don’t want annoying, frustrating experience that comes with the different level of challenges you speak about.
I play games to relax and have fun. I have nothing to prove in non existant virtual world.
Often people associate raid concept with gear treadmill of traditional MMOs, that’s where most of hate comes.
Personally I’d love to see introduced some raid content in GW2 as far as it doesn’t turn in a farm to obtain a specific item.
Yet people are farming these champs the same reason as people farmed Raids.
To get loot! Magic Find Magic Find, oh nice I just got thing nice item off that champion.
Oh nice I got something I can salvage for expensive mats.
Its the same thing. both grind for Gear.
Cause of GW2 philosophy, people shouldn’t farm champions for gear. 99% of them already have their exotic armor/trinket/weapon, they should farm to get money and buy cosmetic things (legendaries, specific sins, BLTP items by gem exchange etc.)
That said, with the introduction of ascended weapons (and soon armor) ANet completely broke this game philosophy and many people are farming to obtain the strongest gear possible like any other MMOs. TOO BAD.
Stemare ~ Guardian ~ lv80 ~ Far Shiverpeaks
Ci Assediamo Da Soli [SIGH] ~ Officier
For a lot of people, the fun is the reward, not how any reward is attained. This is why a lot of players drag themselves through hours of these tedious tasks just to get 5 minutes of opening loot – glad I don’t fit in here.
Nobody can fool a soul by claiming champion farming is fun, but opening all those boxes after a session? That’s bound to be fun.
Light Up the Darkness
“Dear ANet, nerf Paper, Scissors is fine. Sincerely, Rock”
Elysaurus | Warrior | [LOL] | League of the Legendary | Gandara (EU)
I hate the Champ Zerg Train, don’t know anything about raids since the only MMO’s I’ve played are GW1, GW2 and PWI (which I hated). All I want is some PvP stuff, dueling, more sPvP modes, small scale WvW maps. I don’t know, just ANYTHING for PvP really.
I dont understand, how the you all Love Champion Zergs but hate the concept of Raid Dungeons.
Not all of us love the Chump Choo Choo – in fact some of us really resent the broken mechanic it represents, and despise the aggressive behaviour of some farmers who gang up and heap abuse upon on any player unfortunate enough to not follow the zergs so called “rules”.
Often people associate raid concept with gear treadmill of traditional MMOs, that’s where most of hate comes.
Personally I’d love to see introduced some raid content in GW2 as far as it doesn’t turn in a farm to obtain a specific item.
Yet people are farming these champs the same reason as people farmed Raids.
To get loot! Magic Find Magic Find, oh nice I just got thing nice item off that champion.
Oh nice I got something I can salvage for expensive mats.
Its the same thing. both grind for Gear.
Pretty sure people farmed raids for their set pieces and not random drops….
Back in the days, the only way to level quickly in Asheron’s Call 2 was to actually zerg stuff for hours. People like the easy idea of simply grouping up and killing stuff without any skills involved. Can’t blame them. As long as there is reward, it makes sort of sense (not for me though).
This is nothing new to GW2.
Back in the days, the only way to level quickly in Asheron’s Call 2 was to actually zerg stuff for hours. People like the easy idea of simply grouping up and killing stuff without any skills involved. Can’t blame them. As long as there is reward, it makes sort of sense (not for me though).
This is nothing new to GW2.
I want to thank you for being the only other person I’ve seen here that has played AC2 lol. AC1 is still on my list of best MMOs ever made.
Raiding in EQ2 for me was sometimes like you had to be in that instance for 5+ hours and constantly have to follow exactly the orders you get from others .. no time to take a break if you want … and all that .. i simply hated it.
Champ train you can just jump in whenever you want, you can take a break whenever you want, you don’t have to listen to any “leaders” what you have to do.
Raiding is more like “work”, while champtrain is more like “play like you want”.
And btw.: i only do champs now and then for the bloodstones.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Yeah I gave up scheduling my life around online RPG’s back in the days of MUDding, ain’t no way I’m getting on a voice chat and scheduling a raid in a video game these days. That’s for teenagers/people with no life.
Zerging works due to the loot system, actually, not raiding.
The thing is, so long as you’ve landed about 3 or so hits on the target, depending on its type and ranking and stuff, you can still claim a reward. In WoW though, or any other MMO to that end, this doesn’t exist. If you don’t get the node, you loose it. If you don’t get the target, you have to wait, ect.
I don’t think it’s a flaw personally but it’s due to the game’s fundamental design.
they both consist of large groups of players, tackling a powerful NPC to get some PvE loot rewards or faction grind.
Wait? Powerful? Players follow the champion trains to get their easy mode loot, there is no such thing as failure, or even the concept of trying when you are killing these mobs. Just activate auto attack and go afk, they are pathetic easy and that’s the main reason players join those trains.
Raid dungeons are typically hard content that requires coordination and at least some amount of player skill, so by definition it’s not something the zergers want, they want easy mode fast loot and a raid dungeon is anything but that.
Also, another main reason is that you can leave and join at any time, you can kill 1 or 100 champions nobody will ever care.
Traditionally, Raids were the way you grinded high end gear. I think the idea of a raid is unappealing to many because a traditional gear grind is unappealing. GW2 has raid bosses in the form of world bosses. They need to be retuned and offer better rewards than champs. As they are now, world bosses tend to be zerg fests that get downed rather quickly.
Champ trains on the other hand, are not challenging like a world/raid boss should be. And trains in areas like Queensdale let even low level players earn rewards. Champ trains are all about easy XP & loot bags.
Personally, I do the Queensdale champ farm from time to time with alts to gain fast XP. The problem lies in that it’s the fastest non-crafting way to level, but you end up with no WP & map reveals. As for Frostgorge, I only do that when I’ve got a few mins to play but not enough time to do anything of substance. May as well earn some gold with my time.
You are all acting like if you can’t have a big-party instanced challenge dungeon without gear grind.
I would be glad to have a raid in gw2 that awards us just with skins or anchievements. But not the “kill X boss 10000 times”. I would like them to look like “kill X boss under Y conditions”. And the bosses would have to be hella hard.
Because Zergs are easy in easy out type game play, you join when you want to get your loot (carrots) then leave when you feel like it, you don’t affect anyone else.
Raids require coordination, setting up, getting everyone online at the right times etc and can be huge hassles and commitments, not to mention massive dramas..
That’s my take on why the latter doesn’t work at least in GW2.
Pretty much this, a +1 for you.
I barely have the chance to help within a 12 man fight in another game because everyone’s schedules are so messed up. However in GW2 all I need to do is hop on the Champ train for a short while, pop a few of them, probably get my daily, and then hop off to sell everything quickly.
There’s no worries over Player C’s schedule and that Player X won’t make it, Player D is usually the guy that coordinates but his kid is crying so he’s out for an hour.
The train is eternal (until new patch notes say otherwise) the train is continuous, the train will keep you and release you whenever you want, the train is good.
Now it isn’t coordinated at all, I’ll grant you that.
Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!
Because Zergs are easy in easy out type game play, you join when you want to get your loot (carrots) then leave when you feel like it, you don’t affect anyone else.
Raids require coordination, setting up, getting everyone online at the right times etc and can be huge hassles and commitments, not to mention massive dramas..
That’s my take on why the latter doesn’t work at least in GW2.
Lies. Look at WoW LFR system. Join, faceroll easy mode content, get loot.
It is there for players like GW2 casual white-knights that like spamming 1 for worthless loot. Although people QQed and said wow is ruined “cause free epics” when LFR was implemented.
Here we have only LFR-difficulty content. Imo raids are needed.
The appeal to champ farming is that anyone can join. No pressure, no time commitment, it’s open world, etc.
Raids are for baddies who need 24 ppl to carry them because they can’t hack a regular 5-man instance. Devs love them because they only need to create 1/5 the content. That’s why WoW force-feeds them to you now.
Because Zergs are easy in easy out type game play, you join when you want to get your loot (carrots) then leave when you feel like it, you don’t affect anyone else.
Raids require coordination, setting up, getting everyone online at the right times etc and can be huge hassles and commitments, not to mention massive dramas..
That’s my take on why the latter doesn’t work at least in GW2.
Lies. Look at WoW LFR system. Join, faceroll easy mode content, get loot.
You can join LFR for 5 mins and get loot? Including the VP which is the grind currency of WoW? Also in LFR you get to enjoy the pleasure of face-numbing trash before each boss. The joys!
Open world raids have been the only kind of raiding that has been any good, ever (ok I’ll admit I had a blast doing Karazhan 10-man, but that’s closer to a 5-man than the typical raiding monstrosity). The open world feels “real”. Instances feel fake. If GW2 was based around raiding for end-game loot I would not be playing.
If you told someone who’s never played Guild Wars 2 what champ zerging was, they’d probably think it was like Raids, but they are entirely different from each other, here are some key differences.
Raids -compared to- Champ Zergs
- Organized group compositions -compared to- Any zerg will do, anytime of day
- Assigned roles -compared to- Pressing ‘1’ is the only role
- Time constraints/DPS checks -compared to- 30 secs and it’s dead
- Phases/Complex Boss Mechanics -compared to- Standing still, attacking 1 guy
- Unique, better than average loot -compared to- All champs in game drop boxes
- Not easily farmable -compared to- Easily farmable
- Learning Curve -compared to- Learning ‘Troll > Bandit > Oak > Spider > Boar’
- Communication, usually voice chat -compared to- Follow the Comm Tag
Champ farming isnt even remotely comparable to raids. Raids are more akin to a very hard dungeon with a higher player cap (something I’d love to see in gw2).
Champ farming is running around a map following the commander tag and pressing 1 when you get to a boss. Utterly mindless and requires no skill or attention whatsoever. I don’t know how people can love doing it, bores me rigid, but hey play how yah like.
That said I’d like to play some raids in gw2. They were in gw1 with dungeons like Urgoz’s Warren. I hope they will make a return. After all the engine could cope well with say 12-15 people running around a big instance, however it starts showing its limitations when 30+ folks are zerging an open world champ.
I hate both. What I want is a living and organic world free of loot pinatas and forced progression. But I guess that isn’t likely to happen at this point.
I hate both. What I want is a living and organic world free of loot pinatas and forced progression. But I guess that isn’t likely to happen at this point.
Problem is: Nobody can define what is a “Living and Organic World” is in a video game.
Skyrim is usually used in most people example when I ask for it.
yet compare Skyrim to any modern day AAA MMO, but without the Multiplayer part. Actually MMOs now days have more vast and more content in their world than any single player open world RPG to date. Yet this “Living and Organic World” argument is thrown around. but what does it really mean?
and How would Raid Dungeons not allow that, but other features would?
I hate both. What I want is a living and organic world free of loot pinatas and forced progression. But I guess that isn’t likely to happen at this point.
Problem is: Nobody can define what is a “Living and Organic World” is in a video game.
Skyrim is usually used in most people example when I ask for it.
yet compare Skyrim to any modern day AAA MMO, but without the Multiplayer part. Actually MMOs now days have more vast and more content in their world than any single player open world RPG to date. Yet this “Living and Organic World” argument is thrown around. but what does it really mean?
and How would Raid Dungeons not allow that, but other features would?
It means a dynamic and ever changing world which reacts to the actions of the players within it. This is where Guild Wars 2 failed by relying too heavily on static content and raids are the worst of the worst when it comes to that. Spending your entire day rallying up people to retread the same old content you’ve done a million times before just isn’t particularly appealing. Can anyone still seriously claim that they go do Tequatl for fun?
I hate both. What I want is a living and organic world free of loot pinatas and forced progression. But I guess that isn’t likely to happen at this point.
Problem is: Nobody can define what is a “Living and Organic World” is in a video game.
Skyrim is usually used in most people example when I ask for it.
yet compare Skyrim to any modern day AAA MMO, but without the Multiplayer part. Actually MMOs now days have more vast and more content in their world than any single player open world RPG to date. Yet this “Living and Organic World” argument is thrown around. but what does it really mean?
and How would Raid Dungeons not allow that, but other features would?
It means a dynamic and ever changing world which reacts to the actions of the players within it. This is where Guild Wars 2 failed by relying too heavily on static content and raids are the worst of the worst when it comes to that. Spending your entire day rallying up people to retread the same old content you’ve done a million times before just isn’t particularly appealing. Can anyone still seriously claim that they go do Tequatl for fun?
Problem is no computer is truly dynamic, or random. All things have to be planned. GW2 designed its Dynamic content around stable hour long timers for the more tougher stuff, and smaller timers and variables for the lesser events. this likely done to give players more content to do outside their static quest grind, which they were trying to mask.
Think about it. Does the world in GW2 never change? of course it changes. it changes all the time in the way events can take away control points in the PvE world.
NPC would switch out.
Also giant or powerful bosses spawn and rampage the land in meta events. This stuff happen right here. again the illusion is less deceiving due to this being a multiplayer game that has to have content for players playing at different times, instead of single player that only have to live up to one player’s expectations.
Raid Dungeons, and Dungeons in general, and other instanced content, do for MMOs, what Single Player games can do for solo players. It provides a experience that is designed to only that group of players, rather than to massively multiple of players like MMOs have.
Raid dungeons are basically a giant logistical problem. Most of the time and effort goes into organizing players, setting schedules, assigning roles, and waiting for people to get their kitten together. These are enormous barriers for everyone, and the raid doesn’t become fun until you commit yourself to doing it on a regularly scheduled basis.
Until you’ve done it enough with the same people, it’s going to be a nasty logistical problem for the people running the raid, and a boring night of sitting around waiting for the guy running the raid to sort out logistics for everyone else.
There are no logistical problems with champ zergs. You drop in and go. It is self organizing and low commitment; anyone can pop in and out whenever they want.
I agree that the potential rewards for a dedicated, large team of raiders is much higher in a formal raid setting (not just loot rewards, but a better, deeper gameplay experience), but the costs to get there are just way too high for my tastes.
Comparing raids to champtrains is stupid because raid bosses are nothing like champions. A more accurate comparison would be comparing raid bosses with world bosses. World bosses are basically raid-style bosses that aren’t locked inside an instance and have no player limit (other than the zone pop). You’re comparing apples & onions.
I would love to see “Raiding” implemented in this game, I think it would be a tremendous boost to the morale of the community. However I doubt such a system would ever be implemented given how certain developers feel about such a system. Most people usually “Scorn” the idea of raiding because it is in other games such as WoW. Which is an absurd reason to not want something. I mean Warhammer has GvG and Public Quest does that mean Guildwars 2 shouldn’t have them?
Guildwars 1 had “Large instanced content” which was extremely fun and very much like “Raiding”. I don’t see why this type of content wasn’t included into the thing’s “We loved from Gw1”. Secondly finding a 10-Man group for a rewarding dungeon wouldn’t be a thing for our New LFG tool.
