Guild Wars 2

How do we Get Anet to put UW in GW2??

Plz stay on topic, help answer the question. we dont need to debate weather we should have it in the game. Plz Guys let make UW real.

How can we get UW into this game?

Just keep bugging them. I’ve been saying we need an Underworld type zone for a while. Just keep at it!

plus one
but only if summoned ai is invuln so we can farm like zombies.

“Underworld Tokens” that can be bought at the GEM STORE. These tokens can portal you to the uw.

“Underworld Voteing Stub” Buy this at the Gem store, to vote on having Underworld in this game.

“Create a start up for Anet” A side grp that works only on Creating UW content.

Wikipedia: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Underworld
Youtube(Final boss Dhuum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBlWtvwe7no

The Underworld was elite/hardcore 8 player instance in original Guild Wars.
It required a small fee to enter and was extremely punishing – it had no “way points” and if a single NPC died, your whole party was kicked out of the instance without receiving any loot or reward.
Players had to do certain difficult tasks before they could access the final boss Dhuum.
There were no diminishing returns and rewards were worth the effort and time spent.
A run for skilled players usually took around 30-50 minutes, while “pug” groups anywhere from 2 to 3 and more hours.
Needless to add, this was the most played instance/mission/content in original game.

So, the question is, why can’t we have a similar content in Guild Wars 2?
A content that’s entirely skill based and where failure/death is not allowed?

There is a post about Underworld halfway down page 1 here. I’m predicting this will be merged with that one.

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

Because there isn’t any dedicated healer in this game, any kind of event where you need to protect NPCs is completely terrible.
And Anet doesn’t wish to punish players so harshly as wipe=full restart.

RedStar.4218:

Because there isn’t any dedicated healer in this game, any kind of event where you need to protect NPCs is completely terrible.
And Anet doesn’t wish to punish players so harshly as wipe=full restart.

No need for a healer, just split players into small teams and and make them face bosses with similar difficulty as Liadri.
And why not punish?

Nick.6972:

RedStar.4218:

Because there isn’t any dedicated healer in this game, any kind of event where you need to protect NPCs is completely terrible.
And Anet doesn’t wish to punish players so harshly as wipe=full restart.

No need for a healer, just split players into small teams and and make them face bosses with similar difficulty as Liadri.
And why not punish?

Not punish or you’ll see 10000000000000000000000000000000 billions posts on the forum with people going “QQ!!!!!!!!!! IT’S TOO HARD I CAN’T MAKE IT WTH NEED NERF OR I QUIT GAME” …sad but true…

I was just saying that protecting/baby sitting NPCs is something terrible in GW2. I don’t mind difficulty, because if it’s in an instance, I’m not going to find it too hard to do it.

As for punishing, well personally having to restart 90 minutes of fighting because of a mistake isn’t too annoying at first. But after the second time the first 90 minutes aren’t fun anymore and feel like a chore.
Kind of like the temple of Balthazar : it takes a while to set up, then you can easily fail the escort event (a fine example of how terrible those kind of things are in this game) forcing you to start the whole process over.

High risk, high reward.
Punishment forces you to become a better player.

Reminder: There have been multiple 1000 post threads about how hard it is was to push forward and jump when necessary. Literally 3 buttons.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

There would likely be LFG posts for it. Or you could join a guild whose primary activity would be that content.

I personally wouldn’t have a problem with them adding content like that as long as it is permanent. So that when I feel better able to complete it without being a drag on my party members I have a chance of being able to do it.

Hard content where players fail is where players get better.

You could enter in UW alone too and farm the mobs for Ectos (Which were really common drops compared to GW2’s abysmal system and diminishing returns). You could earn decent amount of money without completing the instance.

The mobs were quite hard though.
Aatxes could 2-3 hit and you get kicked out of the instance.

How would this work in GW2? Give monsters extremely high DPS and low/medium health with 1-2 second telegraphed attacks, fail to dodge/ move out of the red circle, you’re dead.

The problem with Elite content is that Guild Wars 2 has been developed to target a wider audience than its predecessor, to entice the casual gamer, and you would expect reward to compensate difficulty or a large time sink. This is a problem because if greater rewards are offered to people who can actually accomplish something difficult, a majority of the player base would be upset that they feel at a disadvantage in not being able to obtain these rewards. Also, they would complain about their frustration in trying to accomplish this “impossibly” (for them) difficult content.

Additionally, I only see people able to complete it battling those who can’t by demanding better rewards, because we all know only too well from experience that there’s probably no way they could come up with adequate rewards on the first iteration.

On a side note, I am totally in support of more difficult content with corresponding rewards. Originally I thought that’s what they were going for with Fractals of the Mists, but…we all know how that turned out.

I like the idea of elite instances but not protecting npcs. Maybe prot them for just a small portion of the instance?
Anyways, yes, lets have some harder instanced content please.

Nick.6972:

Wikipedia: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Underworld
Youtube(Final boss Dhuum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBlWtvwe7no

The Underworld was elite/hardcore 8 player instance in original Guild Wars.
It required a small fee to enter and was extremely punishing – it had no “way points” and if a single NPC died, your whole party was kicked out of the instance without receiving any loot or reward.
Players had to do certain difficult tasks before they could access the final boss Dhuum.
There were no diminishing returns and rewards were worth the effort and time spent.
A run for skilled players usually took around 30-50 minutes, while “pug” groups anywhere from 2 to 3 and more hours.
Needless to add, this was the most played instance/mission/content in original game.

So, the question is, why can’t we have a similar content in Guild Wars 2?
A content that’s entirely skill based and where failure/death is not allowed?

Pple want Underworld, they dont want only dungeons like Undwerworld.. They want Underworld!!!!!!!!! thats the point, we want UW, but yes we want a place that mistakes will cost you the whole run. ill say it again we want Underworld!!

Gw2 elite content strategy is to stack here and aoe everything.

When a net fixes stacking, then it would be a good time to add harder content. Otherwise it is just another dungeon.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

One might make the same point about Teq or Wurm. The answer for those events is that not all content has to be accessible with no effort to all players.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

One might make the same point about Teq or Wurm. The answer for those events is that not all content has to be accessible with no effort to all players.

That’s where you’re wrong. Tequatl and the Mega Wurm is available for ALL players. It may be made for the Hardcore players, but that doesn’t mean Casuals are blocked from participating should they choose to do so. Thus the reason such content is made in the Open World.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

One might make the same point about Teq or Wurm. The answer for those events is that not all content has to be accessible with no effort to all players.

That’s where you’re wrong. Tequatl and the Mega Wurm is available for ALL players. It may be made for the Hardcore players, but that doesn’t mean Casuals are blocked from participating should they choose to do so. Thus the reason such content is made in the Open World.

Key words, “with no effort.” I cannot “get a group” for Teq or Wurm without effort. This effort involves guesting, manipulating overflows and waiting for an inordinate amount of time. Getting a group for a dungeon is much easier.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

One might make the same point about Teq or Wurm. The answer for those events is that not all content has to be accessible with no effort to all players.

That’s where you’re wrong. Tequatl and the Mega Wurm is available for ALL players. It may be made for the Hardcore players, but that doesn’t mean Casuals are blocked from participating should they choose to do so. Thus the reason such content is made in the Open World.

Key words, “with no effort.” I cannot “get a group” for Teq or Wurm without effort. This effort involves guesting, manipulating overflows and waiting for an inordinate amount of time. Getting a group for a dungeon is much easier.

Don’t tell that to the pugs that TTS runs with daily for Teq and Wurm on Overflows.

As I said, anyone can participate. We don’t kick people out because they’re not good enough. We take the time to teach. If we fail, people learn quickly why, and we keep trying.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

IndigoSundown.5419:

One might make the same point about Teq or Wurm. The answer for those events is that not all content has to be accessible with no effort to all players.

That’s where you’re wrong. Tequatl and the Mega Wurm is available for ALL players. It may be made for the Hardcore players, but that doesn’t mean Casuals are blocked from participating should they choose to do so. Thus the reason such content is made in the Open World.

Key words, “with no effort.” I cannot “get a group” for Teq or Wurm without effort. This effort involves guesting, manipulating overflows and waiting for an inordinate amount of time. Getting a group for a dungeon is much easier.

Don’t tell that to the pugs that TTS runs with daily for Teq and Wurm on Overflows.

As I said, anyone can participate. We don’t kick people out because they’re not good enough. We take the time to teach. If we fail, people learn quickly why, and we keep trying.

Don’t tell what to the pugs? That some of them didn’t have to guest because there are no overflows on their servers? That they didn’t have to get into the right overflow? That there was no waiting involved? Wtk are you talking about?

Sounds like we’re talking about two different things. I’m talking about ease of entry and you’re talking about being excluded due to lack of skill. Thing is, you didn’t have to run with the speed runners to do any of the elite instances in GW, just as you don’t have to run with speed runners to do dungeons in GW2.

You’re assuming that you have to have a guild or a friends’ list to do a dungeon, but that is not so. Lest you forget, we started with this…

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

And if rewards is only a title? Let it be “Elitist”.

Would that be compelling reward for hc players? And “Nah, I can live with out that” for casual ones?

We don’t. A.Net doesn’t want GW2 to be human centric. They said that multiple times and I am pretty sure they’ll stick to it.

It’s kinda said but it’s their game and their decision, as cool as it is to play different races this is one of the downsides.

Nick.6972:

Wikipedia: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Underworld
Youtube(Final boss Dhuum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBlWtvwe7no

The Underworld was elite/hardcore 8 player instance in original Guild Wars.
It required a small fee to enter and was extremely punishing – it had no “way points” and if a single NPC died, your whole party was kicked out of the instance without receiving any loot or reward.
Players had to do certain difficult tasks before they could access the final boss Dhuum.
There were no diminishing returns and rewards were worth the effort and time spent.
A run for skilled players usually took around 30-50 minutes, while “pug” groups anywhere from 2 to 3 and more hours.
Needless to add, this was the most played instance/mission/content in original game.

So, the question is, why can’t we have a similar content in Guild Wars 2?
A content that’s entirely skill based and where failure/death is not allowed?

Because no one would run it. lol

Unless the reward is exponentially better than normal dungeons, or until they could get similar or better loot in faceroll content, no one would run it.

Best example is Teq. Only organized people (and some kitten afk’ers) run it…

Nick.6972:

Wikipedia: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Underworld
Youtube(Final boss Dhuum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBlWtvwe7no

The Underworld was elite/hardcore 8 player instance in original Guild Wars.
It required a small fee to enter and was extremely punishing – it had no “way points” and if a single NPC died, your whole party was kicked out of the instance without receiving any loot or reward.
Players had to do certain difficult tasks before they could access the final boss Dhuum.
There were no diminishing returns and rewards were worth the effort and time spent.
A run for skilled players usually took around 30-50 minutes, while “pug” groups anywhere from 2 to 3 and more hours.
Needless to add, this was the most played instance/mission/content in original game.

So, the question is, why can’t we have a similar content in Guild Wars 2?
A content that’s entirely skill based and where failure/death is not allowed?

Unless you speedcleared it the rewards weren’t worth it at all. It was all about “might get” skins that I personally never saw dropping.
For me the UW was something special, my first guild was one of the first who completed the whole underworld (before we had the endchest) and I kinda felt proud being part of that guild.
The cool thing about the UW was the difficulty scaling, it was perfect – you just want to kill mobs to get ectos? Fine adjust your build a little bit and you are good to go, not hard at all – you want to complete the underworld by doing all quests? you are in for a hell of a ride! I loved that, the guys who designed this instance were geniuses.

I’ve never heard of underworld because I had never played gw1 but I would love content like this. They should def create an underworld. Keep threads like these alive and Anet might do it in the long run. Keep up the positive reinforcement of content such as this.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

Then you LFG PUG it up, giving you access to the content.

You will probably fail a lot but then the onus is on you to make friends, find a premade or join a good guild if you want to have a high success rate chance on elite level content which requires team work and coordination.

You know, it’d be nice if it was introduced in the next season of the Living Story as a section of the Mists not directly related to Grenth like the Underworld is. (Face it, they aren’t going to really want to develop a human-centric region where the other four races are blatantly told “this is the land of the human God of the Dead”. )

But I could see it happen and if inclined write up an entire idea for not just how to link in the Underworld, but parts of the Mists havrouns travel to, though someone at ANet would have to come up with something for asura and charr who are decidedly atheist and don’t have a thing in mind for ‘afterlife’.

General idea? You could acquire “Underworld Tokens” as mentioned above and travel there using them. (Consumable item, either purchase a 5 pack in the Gem Store or they can be found in chests, daily rewards, Champion bags.) Once there, you are met by a Reaper of Grenth to explain how the Underworld has problems with dragon minions having pushed in seeking a foothold. One section has Destroyers trying to overwhelm the Twin Serpent Mountains, one section has the Icebrood fighting the Ice King and his elementals, one section has the Branded trying to fortify the Chaos Plains, and Risen in the Spawning Pools.

And perhaps curiously, Dhuum has stopped trying to break free and his minions have pulled back to the Hall of Judgement to fiercely try to keep ANYONE from getting in there, dragon minion or not. Dhuum knows fear at last, knowing if the dragons can devour magic . . . he might actually be vulnerable.

Only the Labyrinth and the Forgotten Vale have some moderate amount of safety, the Forgotten Vale being the safe harbor where players can respawn via waypoints (there are others but they are always contested unless the Reaper is there to control it) and can sell/repair. Or exchange reward tokens for new Ascended gear (unique to the Underworld, either dropped from events or traded for, NOT crafted and NOT available otherwise, everything from new unique rings/trinkets/back items to new armor/weapon skins).

Grenth’s Reapers will occasionally start event chains to push out dragon minions and a failure causes a Legendary champion to spawn in the region which was taken over. Killing that champion will allow the Reapers to try again. If all the areas fall, the dragon minions will try to storm the Labyrinth one group at a time. Whichever one wins will have a Legendary champion posted there which needs to be killed before the Reapers try taking anything back at all.

On the other side (a total player victory), if all the Reapers secure waypoints, then a bonus chest is given to anyone who has credit for the event chains and remains in the Underworld when it is fully conquered. One hour after the total victory, all dragon minion swarms will attack the four areas at once and the total victory bonus is on lockout for two more hours unless the Labyrinth falls.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

Make friends and find a guild, there nothing wrong with being sociable in an mmorpg

I wouldn’t call the Underworld “Elite or Hardcore” content since it was rather easy to do, even with a party full of heroes. Certain builds could solo farm in there for hours and hours, while almost afk (SoS?) and no way to lose. Of course it took some time to get used to the rotation and pulling, because surprise surprise, in GW1 mobs actually partol, but once you got that right it was easy mode to farm there.

As for the quests to finish the instance, the only really hard quests in UW were the 4 Horsemen and defending King Frozenwind, both required the party to split up, which made heroes less powerful, but other than those two UW quests were very easy. Oh and it required at least some shred of intelligence to defeat the Keepers of Souls.

I had high hopes for Dhumm while I was reading the wiki about his skills and the whole fight, but when I first fought him, a friend told me “prepare to be… amazed” in a sarcastic way. And of course that fight was so stupidly easy that I was very dissapointed with Dhumm, I guess they made it so pathetic because the instance takes a long time to finish and if you wipe, your party is teleported outside.

Domain of Anguish (especially that Foundry of Failed Creations) was actually ELITE and HARDCORE content, UW wasn’t.

maddoctor.2738:

Domain of Anguish (especially that Foundry of Failed Creations) was actually ELITE and HARDCORE content, UW wasn’t.

I guess you never played UW pre-heroes

kokiman.2364:

maddoctor.2738:

Domain of Anguish (especially that Foundry of Failed Creations) was actually ELITE and HARDCORE content, UW wasn’t.

I guess you never played UW pre-heroes

It still wasn’t really very hard, but it required some focused builds. Even “Hard Mode Underworld” could be handled just fine.

Similarly, Domain of Anguish required some serious attention to detail but if you were taking it slow and not rushing ahead it wasn’t that bad. Except for the Foundry. That place is the spawn of nightmares.

Really the key of GW1’s “elite dungeons” was knowing how to tackle places . . . and there were multiple ways of doing it . . . but once you had done it a few times? Few places really became a problem. And all of it became easier if you were patient and cautious.

UW or DoA in a GW1 style would be great. But as pointed out before there were no DR, which i think is one of the most valid arguements why Anet don´t want them back….

UW wasn’t easy to do with Heroes. You could farm and complete some quests, but you weren’t able to complete a full run.

DoA was awesome too, I’d gladly change all GW2 PvE maps to get it back in GW2, of course updated and more difficult.

Yea UW couldn’t be ran with Hero’s, yet for months it could be solo’d and or duo’d with a 55/600 smite team, until they added the skel’s to kill the perma sins off.

Its funny this topic came up as we had a discussion about this on teamspeak the other night, there are links to the UW in GW2 already yet no actual underworld to go to, maybe Scarlet will open it up when hopefully she goes away later this year.

It could be done with hero’s, I did it :o

UW was great for what it was…

It was a lot of fun, but…

It wasn’t “all that and a bag of chips” so to speak. It was more difficult to complete than the regular instances, but it could be soloed very easily with the right build. It also fell victim to the CoF type groups who would do speed clears (again for the ectos.)

If they add the Underworld here, I would hope they make it somewhat like WvW in that people can gate to it any time they want, but it’s relatively “open world” once you get there.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

What if I have no friends or guild? How am I supposed to do Elite Instanced content?

One might make the same point about Teq or Wurm. The answer for those events is that not all content has to be accessible with no effort to all players.

That’s where you’re wrong. Tequatl and the Mega Wurm is available for ALL players. It may be made for the Hardcore players, but that doesn’t mean Casuals are blocked from participating should they choose to do so. Thus the reason such content is made in the Open World.

While not really a lie, this statement is far from presenting the truth of “all” players being able to complete Teq or Wurm and anyone familiar with either knows this.. or should.

Semantics ftw.

UW is hard with a full hero team (7 heroes + 1 player) but 2-3 players + 6 heroes can do it without many issues – there is no “need” for more players. As I said, the only challenging part of UW are the 2 “split” quests, the rest of them are simple and straightforward, including the joke fight with Dhuum.

DoA requires better team composition and individual player skill (it’s also doable with Heroes, but the fights are much more intense)

Although I’d love to visit the Underworld in GW2, why do we need it to be an elite/hardcore instance again? An more open zone could work as well, similar to the Tower of Nightmares for example.

maddoctor.2738:

Although I’d love to visit the Underworld in GW2, why do we need it to be an elite/hardcore instance again? An more open zone could work as well, similar to the Tower of Nightmares for example.

Because this is what the game lacks off – hard content for dungeongroups.

We’ll simply ask for it over and over and maybe we’ll get it.
Also Fissure of Woe would be nice also. Really good areas from GW1 should make a comeback.

Foundry is where I would test my VQing builds. I got past the 3rd room too.

Nick.6972:

Wikipedia: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Underworld
Youtube(Final boss Dhuum): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBlWtvwe7no

The Underworld was elite/hardcore 8 player instance in original Guild Wars.
It required a small fee to enter and was extremely punishing – it had no “way points” and if a single NPC died, your whole party was kicked out of the instance without receiving any loot or reward.
Players had to do certain difficult tasks before they could access the final boss Dhuum.
There were no diminishing returns and rewards were worth the effort and time spent.
A run for skilled players usually took around 30-50 minutes, while “pug” groups anywhere from 2 to 3 and more hours.
Needless to add, this was the most played instance/mission/content in original game.

So, the question is, why can’t we have a similar content in Guild Wars 2?
A content that’s entirely skill based and where failure/death is not allowed?

Because we’re not in Kansas anymore, and this isn’t GW anymore.

one question, how is this gonna fit in terms of lore?
the 5(6) abandoned the world quite a bit, would you allow someone to enter your realm if you want nothing to do with them?

sorudo.9054:

one question, how is this gonna fit in terms of lore?
the 5(6) abandoned the world quite a bit, would you allow someone to enter your realm if you want nothing to do with them?

Lorewise there’s not an issue with that. Grenth responded to prayer in the heart of his cathedral in Orr, and sent an avatar to speak with the priestess. Kormir, Dwayna, and Lyssa also answer prayers (Human racial skills).

So it’s not they “don’t want anything to do with the world”, they simply stepped back. And the reasons or that are either more theologically appropriate (“Gods help those who help themselves”) or . . .

. . . fear of being caught by the Elder Dragons and devoured or destroyed like Owl.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

sorudo.9054:

one question, how is this gonna fit in terms of lore?
the 5(6) abandoned the world quite a bit, would you allow someone to enter your realm if you want nothing to do with them?

Lorewise there’s not an issue with that. Grenth responded to prayer in the heart of his cathedral in Orr, and sent an avatar to speak with the priestess. Kormir, Dwayna, and Lyssa also answer prayers (Human racial skills).

So it’s not they “don’t want anything to do with the world”, they simply stepped back. And the reasons or that are either more theologically appropriate (“Gods help those who help themselves”) or . . .

. . . fear of being caught by the Elder Dragons and devoured or destroyed like Owl.

giving a power is one thing, showing a portal to their own world is another.
as you said, they are afraid to be devoured or destroyed (maybe), i don’t think you would let everybody in when there is a chance it can go wrong.

sorudo.9054:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

sorudo.9054:

one question, how is this gonna fit in terms of lore?
the 5(6) abandoned the world quite a bit, would you allow someone to enter your realm if you want nothing to do with them?

Lorewise there’s not an issue with that. Grenth responded to prayer in the heart of his cathedral in Orr, and sent an avatar to speak with the priestess. Kormir, Dwayna, and Lyssa also answer prayers (Human racial skills).

So it’s not they “don’t want anything to do with the world”, they simply stepped back. And the reasons or that are either more theologically appropriate (“Gods help those who help themselves”) or . . .

. . . fear of being caught by the Elder Dragons and devoured or destroyed like Owl.

giving a power is one thing, showing a portal to their own world is another.
as you said, they are afraid to be devoured or destroyed (maybe), i don’t think you would let everybody in when there is a chance it can go wrong.

Unless something already went wrong . . .