Guild Wars 2

I cannot stand, I CANNOT STAND underwater combat in this game. Whenever I enter a zone with more than 20% water I cringe and get discouraged from playing. And unfortunately because of the story I unwittingly built I’m in a lot of water zones.

Not only is the combat clunky and boring, but there’s 3 game breaking issues with it.(Things I assume to be bugs.) I’m in the Straits of Devastation right now. And I can’t progress in the watery areas (i.e; 60% of the zone.) Can’t do it. I’ll tell you why I can’t do it. Because mobs respawn after 35 seconds. Because 70% of the time when I’m fighting a mob they bug out, reset, and turn around and finish me, because I’m weakened from the 3 minute scrap I just had with that veteran, and it isn’t. And because when they bug out for some awesome $%^&ing reason it pulls every other mob in a 100 yard radius, and I get obliterated.

For example, there an underwater skillpoint here (Out of probably 6 or something) that I cannot get. CAN’T DO IT. Why? Because there’s a veteran Risen guarding it with an insane amount of health, summons minions, deals a quarter of my health in damage to me every time it hits me (As a warrior, with 17k health, building toughness and vitality primarily), and bugs out and resets every time I get him to about 20%. Lets not forget the fact all the crap around him respawns every 30 seconds to a minute, AND THAT HE SUMMONS HIS OWN kitten MINIONS.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME WITH THIS? I realize the game is new, bugs are to be expected. But what I’m experiencing with the underwater combat right now is inexcusable. If the mobs were intended to respawn every 30 seconds, making it impossible to 1v1 a veteran and win, whatever. Thanks for the challenge. But these issues with the resetting and getting aggro on everything within a mile of you are things that should have been fixed well before the game went live.

I like underwater combat.

This, all of it. Though on my server it’s much smoother the whole random invulnerability needs to stop. During emergencies I use whirlpool, but that has a really long CD. Also, as an elementalist I had no problem with the underwater hunter that poisons, I just had to attune to earth and DoT kite, then I used whirlpool twice (yes, the fight took that long lol!). Though yeah I know the skillpoint you’re talking about in the next zone and luckily I found a couple random people attempting it when I was going for it. That one was worse and isn’t a good underwater zone anyway. Risen hyleks and krayt are the worst.

Underwater combat is really easy once you figure it out, I really don’t even get hit anymore unless its a champion. Just takes practice like everything else.

Sounds like it isn’t really underwater combat that is the issue, just the usual bugs. Mob respawns need to toned down gamewide. Mobs bugging and instahealing happens everywhere, not just underwater.

When it works, I actually like underwater combat. I wish they had actually done more with it. More weapons, and more skills that can actually be used underwater.

- Fast respawning enemies
– Random invulnerability
– Randomly healing up while in combat with you

I hit these problems on land just as often as underwater.

Question: Have you been upgrading your underwater weapon(s) along with the rest of your gear ?

just make sure your z-axis is covered, as i get swarmed above and below if i’m not careful.

i want an old school fishbowl helmet. the rebreather thing is too modern for me(although looking like subzero is pretty neat)

I love underwater combat o.O

It feels fluid and kiting is pretty easy with the right skill set. Only thing that bugs me sometimes is the risen when they’re all clumped together. They’re all RAWR. And I’m all NOU. However, with a little patience I find it manageable.

I have a lot of fun with underwater combat, to the point where I would easily say it’s my favorite implementation out of every MMO that has underwater combat. I don’t think it’s boring, nor is it any more difficult/simple than the rest of the game.

My only problem with underwater combat are mobs that go invulnerable for no apparent reason, and mobs that are inside/beneath the terrain. But those are bugs, not design issues.

Why I don’t like it:

• Randomly invulnerable enemies (this is worse underwater than on land)
• Too fast respawns, which is worse underwater b/c you can’t kill mobs as quickly b/c your skills are kitten (see below)
• Most (all?) utility skills do not work underwater – this is a straight up nerf to your character
• Reduced weapon choices (another nerf)
• Overpowered/buggy enemies (sharks)
• Good gear is hard to get

Jhu.3965:

I like underwater combat.

Me too.

A lot of these issues other people are having sound like bugs.

I dislike it as an elementalist and as a mesmer.

On top of that the respawn problem + hard to avoid aggroing extra mobs.

DusK.3849:

A lot of these issues other people are having sound like bugs.

Maybe, but the bugs are exacerbated by the fact that they took all my skills away.

OutsiderSubtype.4329:

DusK.3849:

A lot of these issues other people are having sound like bugs.

Maybe, but the bugs are exacerbated by the fact that they took all my skills away.

If you have suggestions about how those skills might be able to work underwater, feel free to post them in Suggestions or your profession forums.

Underwater combat in this is probably one of the best underwater combat systems in a MMO.

It’s way more fluid than you’d think, you just need to get used to it.

Go try something like Champs online and try their underwater combat… Actually, please don’t.

If there were no underwater areas, I wouldn’t miss them at all…if that answers the questions. Wow did it better….sorry.

I would’ve rather had classes that were balanced and had working trait lines or DEs that worked or FAAR more interesting dungeons than underwater areas I mostly dread going to.

I hate underwater too. I just rush the content and get back on the land asap.

Koolthulu.9682:

Sounds like it isn’t really underwater combat that is the issue, just the usual bugs. Mob respawns need to toned down gamewide. Mobs bugging and instahealing happens everywhere, not just underwater.

In my experience, it happens a lot more, underwater. In the middle of a fight, mobs suddenly become invulnerable and swim three feet back to their spawn point to heal. Might depend on playstyle, or certain weapon skills, I don’t know, but it happens so much, it can feel gamebreaking. At least, the underwater part of the game.

The crazy fast respawns happen everywhere, but they severely compound the other issues of water combat, making it way too frustrating.

I love underwater exploration but i H8 the constant aggro (especially in hi-lvl waters). The invulnerable thing is just insane and the uber-fast respawns are annoying, etc… All this has been said but I must really express the point that if there were a bit less aggroing mobs swarming and more passive ones the combat would be tolerable. Add more challenging exploration with unique puzzles that produce hidden treasures or rewards. Underwater karma quests are the ultimate nightmare omg. I think the underwater skills are innovative but only work well 50% of the time lol. Placing underwater skillpoints right beside vets and champs is just evil for light and medium armor and requires grouping sometimes which isn’t always doable (maybe with a LFG system it would be). Maybe mark the champ/vet skillpoints on the map so we can prepare. Off topic but what is the purpose of the commune skillpoints anyway? I assume its just lore.

I play a Mesmer here, and I like Underwater Combat.

A few notes though:
1) Make sure you update your underwater headgear (rebreather) and slot the same Rune as you do your normal headgear. Otherwise you are taking a stat/armor hit, along with loosing out on the Rune’s effects as you do not wear your normal headgear underwater.

2) Bind the Swim Down key to something, which isn’t set automatically. Spacebar swims up, but I tend to set Z to swim down.

3) It can actually be much easier to avoid some combats, by simply swimming high or low enough around the mobs. Not always the case, but its good to learn this so when you get into combat, its not the middle of a mess of creatures. Don’t be afraid to look all around.

@Opening Post
I remember that exact same Skill Challenge, literally right underneath the Diving Area at Malchor’s Leap.
I ended up using Stealth + Clones to grab the Commune, but right after I got away someone else was attempting to get it. So I stayed behind, helped eliminate the annoying Risen and the surrounding undead that floods the place, and it went fine.
Just look for a little help on that one.

It was the Asura Lab DE in the Northern part of that same zone that was rough. So many people hate Underwater combat, that it was a challenge to get people to join in and finish that one off. Along with that kittening kitten shark of a kitten’s kitten.

DusK.3849:

OutsiderSubtype.4329:

DusK.3849:

A lot of these issues other people are having sound like bugs.

Maybe, but the bugs are exacerbated by the fact that they took all my skills away.

If you have suggestions about how those skills might be able to work underwater, feel free to post them in Suggestions or your profession forums.

I hate underwater combat too. To the point where I think any dev who suggests it for a game should be escorted out of the building. Permanently. Maybe by someone with a badge.

But you can use utility skills underwater. Go underwater (someplace like Lion’s Arch where nothing will aggro) and set up your utility skill there – some of them won’t work underwater, but you should have enough of a selection to get some skills in there.

I wish melee range was a little longer than it is underwater.

Thanks caresse. I literally just discovered that. Maybe I’m an idiot, but I assumed the game would keep my utility skills active if they worked underwater.

i play an elementalist lol so i just use Whirpool and kill all mobs with my 54k dmg >:)

I’m an Elementalist so Whirlpool will be an option once I’ve raised the 40 (!) skill points it costs but that means I can kill one mob every 3 minutes. It’s an improvement I guess, and an infinite one at that but still hardly comparable with my land skill set. Still ANet should have figured out that underwater levels along with sewer levels, slippy slidey ice worlds and reverse the controls power ups are reviled for a very good reason.

I love underwater combat, but I notice some lesser skilled players struggle with it.

Anywhere around Orr just sucks right now. Insane re-spawn rates and hordes of endless risen are the status quo, and it’s just bad design all around in my book. The designers of those areas perhaps played a little too much L4D. While not a bad idea for an MMO, hordes of undead would have had more impact being isolated to maybe 5 adventure levels, not 30? That is to say, it gets old when you’re fighting those same swarms of undead for 30 levels… and it just gets worse as you progress. Almost laughable.

datus.4187:

I love underwater combat, but I notice some lesser skilled players struggle with it.

Same.

Me and my gf here have been doing UW combat on 6 classes and never had issues beside those times you get a bazillion of barracudas (dear Dwayna..).

The real issue is when mobs for no reason become invulnerable, regardless if you’re hitting them on the point they spawned (aka they are not “going back” because you went too far, it’s a bug!).

Mobs are supposed to reset if you kite it too far from their spawn or area where they are supposed to be located. Otherwise people would be kiting the whole map in a massive zerg of mobs following one person, that would be fun to watch.

underwater combat is fine. You are not that good at it yet. It’s acutally quite fun. I enjoy swiming around looking for stuff and killing fishys

Sounds like the op just needs to find a group. This is an mmo right?

I know the SP the OP is talking about, it’s in the middle of a dome and is stupidly hard solo. As a engineer I love underwater combat but we have the most OP kit (grenades). The water in orr is your friend I find it best way to get around if you swim ontop you can out swim any of the mobs and they aren’t spawn as close together in water as they are on land

For me personally, it’s not a matter of skilled vs. not, but the fact that I utterly hate the weapons I’m given as a Ranger. I don’t enjoy melee in the first place, so spear is out, and the Harpoon gun is an exceptionally-weak bleed-heavy weapon that only has one skill that I’d consider particularly good (Feeding Frenzy).

Underwater is the only time I genuinely feel like my pets are an asset, simply because I’m so crippled.

I hate my Necro Underwater.

Some other classes are fantastic and fun underwater.

Also meleeing is such a PITA underwater.

Dark Saviour.9410:

For me personally, it’s not a matter of skilled vs. not, but the fact that I utterly hate the weapons I’m given as a Ranger. I don’t enjoy melee in the first place, so spear is out, and the Harpoon gun is an exceptionally-weak bleed-heavy weapon that only has one skill that I’d consider particularly good (Feeding Frenzy).

Underwater is the only time I genuinely feel like my pets are an asset, simply because I’m so crippled.

I’d argue that your statement proves it’s a matter of skilled versus not. I wouldn’t necessarily word it that way.. I’d prefer to say an understanding and familiarity with the tools you have underwater, and a willingness to use them.

As a ranger I can simply annihilate normal mobs in a handful of seconds and rarely take any hits, even on harder fights that go on for an extended period. The tools are there, but if people are just randomly mashing buttons they shouldn’t expect miracles. Performing well underwater does require at least a little attention. I can kill a pack of mobs in seconds or I can make the same fight last ten times as long and be infinitely more painful just by being sloppy.

Many people do the latter all the time and then chalk it up to underwater combat being horrible.

Rack.4930:

I’m an Elementalist so Whirlpool will be an option once I’ve raised the 40 (!) skill points it costs but that means I can kill one mob every 3 minutes. It’s an improvement I guess, and an infinite one at that but still hardly comparable with my land skill set. Still ANet should have figured out that underwater levels along with sewer levels, slippy slidey ice worlds and reverse the controls power ups are reviled for a very good reason.

Unless that mob is a veteran you’re doing it wrong. You could take out a whole wave with that skill. I like underwater combat, but not tons of things spawning on me (especially when whirlpool is on CD) or extra mobs joining the fight when I only planned on 1 or 2, and lava flow doesn’t activate underwater so no point in getting near whatever is trying to kill me.

I’ve been facing the same bugs both on earthe and in water so I don’g think that there is an issue w/ underwater combat. But I do hate hate hate the 100 miles agro thing. :/

I dont hate or love it… its better than in most other game’s

While I agree that those issues are frustrating, they are in no way underwater combat-specific. Most enemies underwater in Orr bug out and reset, or respawn too fast, yes. Wouldn’t it be exactly the same if that happened with regular combat?

I really enjoy exploring the watery depths, though I’d certainly enjoy it more if a few tweaks were made here and there. I’m a little saddened that so many underwater events go ignored by players, particularly in the higher level zones.

Hate underwater combat. The lack of options (two weapons, no utility skills), and the infernal bugging out kill it for me. I stopped using the knockback on my speargun for a while because I thought that was causing mobs to bug out (knocking them back into the scenery) – but no, they bug out and go invulnerable plenty often enough even without that.

If the bugs were fixed, underwater combat would simply be less fun than ground combat. As it is now, it’s something to be avoided. I do go after skillpoints and POIs underwater, but I will never do an underwater event, it’s just not worth the frustration and rage.

I love it. Utility skills work, the weapons work. Its different and you have to adapt.

Kromica.2831:

Underwater combat is really easy once you figure it out, I really don’t even get hit anymore unless its a champion. Just takes practice like everything else.

unfortunately the OP is right about the problems.

Underwater combat has all the elements to make it quite fun and unique such as underwater weapons, however, in its current state, it’s nearly broken, or in the straits of Devastation and other higher level water zones, completely broken.

It’s worse than the Orr land mobs in terms of density and insane repop. they also don’t do insignifigant amount of damage. I have tried to kite them but I end up picking up more mobs… or… the mob just pulls me. None of my high level water skill points are completed. Made worse by the fact that on my server, there’s noone in the water. They are all on land farming karma.

Add to that, even with yellow weapons and the whispering exotic set armor, I do crap-all for damage underwater. We’re talking about hitting mobs for 150-ish damage while they hit me for 2,000 and on specials, hitting me for 8000+. It’s a monumental effort to kill just one mob down there.

What made me give up was on one of the shipwrecks, I spotted a rare occurrence: a lone krait. I checked for possible adds. There were about 4 total scattered very far apart – as in you could see them but they were far enough to be just a small blob. So I attacked the one mob and got pulled. The next thing I know, I have all 4 mobs on me instantly and all 4 special on me – intantly wiping my toon off the face of Tyria.

OP has it spot on about how the mobs also bug out and just walk away, turn around and then kill you. A lot of that happening for no darn good reason.

As it is, I’m just staying on land. Not until i can figure out why my damage is so poor underwater… I means it’s really poor even with 2600 power and 47% crit!

Edge.4180:

I’d argue that your statement proves it’s a matter of skilled versus not. I wouldn’t necessarily word it that way.. I’d prefer to say an understanding and familiarity with the tools you have underwater, and a willingness to use them.

As a ranger I can simply annihilate normal mobs in a handful of seconds and rarely take any hits, even on harder fights that go on for an extended period. The tools are there, but if people are just randomly mashing buttons they shouldn’t expect miracles. Performing well underwater does require at least a little attention. I can kill a pack of mobs in seconds or I can make the same fight last ten times as long and be infinitely more painful just by being sloppy.

Many people do the latter all the time and then chalk it up to underwater combat being horrible.

No. It’s a matter of playstyle preference. Same as I loathe playing melee or casters, regardless of how effective I may be with them, I dislike the options I’m given underwater. Save for a couple of parts in Orr, fighting underwater is not particularly difficult; it’s just not fun.

As for the “annhilate mobs in seconds” bit, I typically can too, provided Feeding Frenzy or my pet’s F2 ability is off of cooldown, The rest of the harpoon gun abilities do a pittance of damage, with the 1 ability’s focus on splintered bleeds being the biggest offender. Even if I were to completely change my gear to spec for conditions, I can’t imagine killing even remotely as efficiently as I could on land if you took my 3 ability away. Even if I could though, the skills and the weapon are boring, and I’d still stay out of the water whenever possible.

My Mesmer is really strong underwater, at least with a trident, my thief…not so much.

Geff.1930

Mobs are supposed to reset if you kite it too far from their spawn or area where they are supposed to be located. Otherwise people would be kiting the whole map in a massive zerg of mobs following one person, that would be fun to watch.

Does appear to be the anti-kiting code at work, but it’s not working correctly, I’m sure. It often kicks in, when there’s no kiting whatsoever going on, and the mob is right next to its spawn point. When it happens on land, I can usually understand why it might seem like I was kiting (or maybe I actually was) but underwater, no, definitely not.

Edge.4180:

Dark Saviour.9410:

For me personally, it’s not a matter of skilled vs. not, but the fact that I utterly hate the weapons I’m given as a Ranger. I don’t enjoy melee in the first place, so spear is out, and the Harpoon gun is an exceptionally-weak bleed-heavy weapon that only has one skill that I’d consider particularly good (Feeding Frenzy).

Underwater is the only time I genuinely feel like my pets are an asset, simply because I’m so crippled.

I’d argue that your statement proves it’s a matter of skilled versus not. I wouldn’t necessarily word it that way.. I’d prefer to say an understanding and familiarity with the tools you have underwater, and a willingness to use them.

As a ranger I can simply annihilate normal mobs in a handful of seconds and rarely take any hits, even on harder fights that go on for an extended period. The tools are there, but if people are just randomly mashing buttons they shouldn’t expect miracles. Performing well underwater does require at least a little attention. I can kill a pack of mobs in seconds or I can make the same fight last ten times as long and be infinitely more painful just by being sloppy.

Many people do the latter all the time and then chalk it up to underwater combat being horrible.

I’m pretty familiar with underwater tools and know the basis on how underwater combat and survivability works.

In lower level zones, my guardian is able to solo everything except champions. It invovles a lot of kiting and using the weapon & class CC as well as, when timer is ready, creating curtains of damage for the mob to swim through.

Except by the time you hit the higher zones, there isn’t any room to kite and whatever CC you use, the mob will just chain CC you back. Orr underwater is horrific for this, especially in comparison to Frostgorge Sound, where underwater combat there is a lot more tolerable and doable.

I suppose the theme seems to be; if it’s in Orr, it’s going to be terrible.

I wish Orr (land and water) was more like Frostgorge Sound. I really like that zone (and it mostly works without bugs!!!). I would have been really happy if they had made that a proper 80 zone rather than only having a small silver of it really for 80 content.

“blah blah blah I play solo oh no can’t get 100% on my own because this game is called GUILD wars but I choose to solo”.

I hear it all the time. Join a party. Underwater is a different feel, but it’s enjoyable and adds diversity to the game. Just play with people. Unfortunately no one goes to the SoD though

I actually like underwater combat…
its fun

HoTW – Plunder Path

It is like the devs thought “Man having no ‘walls’ and mobs swimming through the roof would be a great idea.”

Most underwater content in open world is rather easy though.

I actually love underwater combat and exploration and found it was something that was done rather well.