Guild Wars 2

We don’t know what the next expansion is so this is about his whereabouts and potential story in general. Anet seems to be abandoning underwater content, but there’s still room to introduce him to the story.

Scenario 1: He’s there but underwater combat is still downplayed.

• Why not have his expansion’s areas be tropical islands where mastering surfing is needed to progress? Imagine: a lion themed charr wearing fiery plate armor and uses a guitar (my idea for the next legendary greatsword…would put lots of that Maguma Burl to great use since burl is a high quality guitar wood) as a weapon surfing…is having that much cool in a game even legal?

That way you still keep a seafaring theme. A Caribbean pirate theme combined with quaggans would make for a great expansion! And we can have a new hub that has the same aesthetic as the old Lion’s Arch!

Scenario 2: He is killed off screen, thus making the next dragon an even bigger threat as he’ll absorb his power.

Example off-screen story: Quaggans are sick and tired of being pushed around by Steve and his krait lackeys. A Quaggan version of the Pact forms and they have help from a group of dwarves previously unknown before. In very ancient times way before the Guild Wars 1 timeline there was a landmass that sunk into the sea through powerful magical warfare.

The land had a magical sword that no man nor even a god of destruction could rend asunder. It was a weapon that is only wielded by those it deems worthy; those of especially pure heart and intention. How it was manufactured is shrouded in mystery…until the dwarves and quaggans study its properties to mass produce weapons with its absurdly high quality. The dwarves gather some titanium and orichalcum and form them into an alloy and craft weapons out of them. The next step in the process involves the use of ancient Asuran technology doing some femto-engineering (smaller scale than nano-engineering) to replicate the exotic matter as highly powerful computers very rapidly manipulate each subatomic particle of each precrafted weapon optimizing it into a whole new material whose hardness, durability, and sharpness is way insane. By “manipulate” I don’t just mean rearrange but magically infuse each subatomic particle to ensure that the old sword of legend’s material can be replicated and mass produced for harpoon guns, spears, axes, bow and arrows, rifles, etc., and of course more swords. In addition to these the quaggans also went through intensive technical training…even an unbreakable sword many times harder than diamond is useless if you lack the technique to use it properly after all, and wise, ancient dragons are no dummies. The star quaggan in the off screen arc obtains the sword as it deemed him the chosen one.

Scenario 3: Radical underwater combat revamp.

The biggest problem with underwater combat is the density of mobs that can float or sink you. Sometimes you think something is in range but it really isn’t. Managing the Z-Axis can also be a hassle. This is the least likely scenario I see due to underwater combat’s very core nature and the time and resources needed would make such a revamp quite risky. I think it can be done, but it sounds like quite a difficult job.

There will be no underwater dragon – look as skins from BL and you will notice that there were no underwater weapons skins for a long time now.

Plus Underwater combat requires a total rebuild – so another no.

Deal with it.

Frediosz.2718:

There will be no underwater dragon – look as skins from BL and you will notice that there were no underwater weapons skins for a long time now.

Plus Underwater combat requires a total rebuild – so another no.

Deal with it.

Underwater combat needing a total overhaul and being a risky move was addressed in the third point whereas the second comes to terms that he could very well be killed off screen (i.e., playable characters have no hand in his defeat)

The first point strongly implies that we can still fight the water dragon with our land abilities. What’s wrong with an archipelago theme? We’d just be surrounded by water and surfing on it, not actually going in it.

Agemnon.4608:

Frediosz.2718:

There will be no underwater dragon – look as skins from BL and you will notice that there were no underwater weapons skins for a long time now.

Plus Underwater combat requires a total rebuild – so another no.

Deal with it.

Underwater combat needing a total overhaul and being a risky move was addressed in the third point whereas the second comes to terms that he could very well be killed off screen (i.e., playable characters have no hand in his defeat)

The first point strongly implies that we can still fight the water dragon with our land abilities. What’s wrong with an archipelago theme? We’d just be surrounded by water and surfing on it, not actually going in it.

Because is a undersea dragon and you sooner or later would need to go underwater and fight him on his territory.

No. (also because fighting a sea drag on land would be freaking lame a hell – like fighting firedragon undersea)

Just like a big no is Krakatolik which back is literally a mountain range. This mofo is freaking HUGE. Himalayan-scale huge.

You wouldn’t be fighting him on land, he’d be in the water whereas we’d be either on boats or islands. What if his weakness involves getting his head above water so we can strike it?

I think that Bubbles and Kralkatorrik should be killed off by a team of NPCs from outside Core Tyria (Possibly from Elona or Cantha)… and come across as every bit self-centered and dismissive of the player characters and their accomplishments as we are likely to be of theirs (And our own allies). But making them actually credible in a fight would probably be too much effort, and most people would just be kittened off at them.

Agemnon.4608:

The first point strongly implies that we can still fight the water dragon with our land abilities. What’s wrong with an archipelago theme? We’d just be surrounded by water and surfing on it, not actually going in it.

Sorry but you cannot fight a dragon who lives in the ocean depths (thousands of feet underwater) on the shore.

Sartharina.3542:

I think that Bubbles and Kralkatorrik should be killed off by a team of NPCs from outside Core Tyria (Possibly from Elona or Cantha)… and come across as every bit self-centered and dismissive of the player characters and their accomplishments as we are likely to be of theirs (And our own allies). But making them actually credible in a fight would probably be too much effort, and most people would just be kittened off at them.

The DSD is nowhere near Cantha for all our knowledge (best guess from lore indicates that he would be west of the Battle Isles) and nothing really indicates that Kralkatorrik flew southeast to Elona (lore actually indicate he remains in the northern Crystal Desert, but we players aren’t certain).

Frediosz.2718:

There will be no underwater dragon – look as skins from BL and you will notice that there were no underwater weapons skins for a long time now.

Plus Underwater combat requires a total rebuild – so another no.

Deal with it.

I’m not sure what Black Lion skins have to do with actual content. They are just skins – the reason why there are no underwater skins might just be because there isn’t a player demand for them. Not because ArenaNet are doing away with underwater combat.

Plus, who’s to say we won’t have underwater submarine combat against the underwater dragon, in a similar style to how we used airships against Zhaitan?

So I disagree with you, sorry. Deal with it!

penelopehannibal.8947:

Frediosz.2718:

There will be no underwater dragon – look as skins from BL and you will notice that there were no underwater weapons skins for a long time now.

Plus Underwater combat requires a total rebuild – so another no.

Deal with it.

I’m not sure what Black Lion skins have to do with actual content. They are just skins – the reason why there are no underwater skins might just be because there isn’t a player demand for them. Not because ArenaNet are doing away with underwater combat.

Plus, who’s to say we won’t have underwater submarine combat against the underwater dragon, in a similar style to how we used airships against Zhaitan?

So I disagree with you, sorry. Deal with it!

Then i will point out more things that say NO for seadragon.

Jormag
-has his lieutenant – Claw
-has his minions – corrupted

Kralkatorrik
-Shatter
-branded

Zhaitan
-Taquatl
-undead

Primordius
-Megadestroyer
-destroyers

Mordy
-Tri-headed wurm (Great Jungle Wurm that was even before TT and at the start of Sylvari story somekind of Jungle drag that you fight in HoT)
-minions – not sure about them Sylvari? But surely there were some of his minions in game before HoT (probably those wurms in TA)

Seaquest
-no lieutenant
-no minions

So this clearly shows what’s what.
Every drag has some base except that underwater hallucination of people trying to force something to game.
Even underwater combat has not been touched/improved from the start of the game.
Skins were easiest thing to spot that said – no underwater stuff.
In game there is almost no underwater content – one fractal which has 3min of fight and rest is just one big skip, and HoTW part 2 and 3 which no one does because its a clustercluck (open maps not counted because unless you do map complition there’s nothing in the water)

And no – Krait ain’t seadrag minions because from what i’ve heard one elder can’t corrupt other’s minions and krait can be corrupted kitten quaggans.

Underwater was a selling point for core and something they quickly abandoned. They didn’t balance the classes for underwater nor have they added any new weapon skins in months including BL and they straight up stated there would be no more underwater legendaries months ago.

Was it hard for ESPORTS or esport related activities? We don’t know but they removed all water in the pvp lobby as well as the entire PvP map that had water segments. The newest class revenenat is completely lacking in underwater and since launch many of the skills classes have can’t even be used underwater either.

So it’s obvious the devs backtracked on underwater content in 3+ years and an expac which just had some minor underwater tunnels that old selling point is dead and one of the key features that sold this game initially to people is long forgotten. Either the Water dragon will be the last dragon, they skip him completely, or this game merely goes under before they ever get to him. Mainly because the water dragon being a water dragon means Anet needs to address issues that have been publicly known for years.

Frediosz.2718:

[snip]

Seaquest
-no lieutenant
-no minions

[snip]

I’m afraid you’re wrong. In the lore, the underwater dragon’s minions and lieutenant’s are unknown – which does not mean they are non-existent. Gliding was non existent before HoT game out, so non-existent stuff doesn’t necessarily mean stuff won’t get developed. /shrug

Edit: And you never know – we may have to kill the underwater dragon before we get to Cantha!

Maybe krait aren’t “minions” per se but rather worshipers like the Sons of Svanir are for Jormag? The sea dragon is very clearly canon and like I said a possible scenario is it getting killed off screen without the player’s influence (preferably by a Quaggan uprising).

Even underwater combat has not been touched/improved from the start of the game.

It could be radically updated or (more likely as underwater combat is globally unpopular across games and even genres) not involve underwater combat in the first place except for manning some torpedoes in a submarine or doing things that aren’t mechanically combat (like a puzzle) to force his head above water for us to use land battle mechanics, then repeat the process. It’s combat that people don’t like about underwater content and the sinking, floating, and getting hit from all over (there could be 10 of them but there’s only one of you) while adding a whole new axis to manage.

People do however love tropical island settings and pirate themes in general, so traversing between an archipelago’s islands can add a credible mastery line via boating or surfing. Karka can also return.

Neither the Lieutenant or the minions (excepting Sylvari) for Mordremoth were present for the first year or so of GW2’s lifetime, so that argument is out. Just because we don’t see underwater dragon influence doesn’t mean it wont be added

I’ve yet to see any players really enjoy underwater combat. I doubt ANet would ever touch the DSD for this reason.

Why? On top of all the skills being literally untouched for years (and thus unbalanced in favor of specific classes), you also have an issue with depth perception. Gauging distance underwater is extremely difficult, and AoE skills are fundamentally flawed underwater. Forget ground targeting, as there is no ground. The game’s controls are CLUNKY for underwater combat. Other video games work around this problem because they are designed as first-person experiences, and thus underwater is virtually no different than on land.

That’s a lot for ANet to gamble an expac on. They’re better served by having the DSD defeated off-screen or not even mentioned.

TL ; DR : When was the last time you enjoyed fighting the giant jellyfish in fractals?

Is Steve really a bad guy? The only races we’ve heard of him bothering directly are Largos, Krait and Karka. And let’s be honest, who here hasn’t killed dozens of Largos, Krait and Karka? As far as my minimal research shows, we have no accounts of Quaggans being attacked by DSD minions. Rather the Quaggan diaspora was due to the Krait being forced out of their lands and the Quaggan having to flee for the Krait.

So let’s not prejudge a dragon before it’s shown its true colours. I, for one, welcome our new draconic friend and his sclerite minions. There can be peace in our time.

God i hope not or under water would need a complete over haul.

I like underwater combat but it’s pretty broken for a lot of classes and I think that’s why they’ve abandoned it, too much effort and we’d rather have them design new content than spend ages rebalancing it.

penelopehannibal.8947:

I’m afraid you’re wrong. In the lore, the underwater dragon’s minions and lieutenant’s are unknown – which does not mean they are non-existent. Gliding was non existent before HoT game out, so non-existent stuff doesn’t necessarily mean stuff won’t get developed. /shrug

Edit: And you never know – we may have to kill the underwater dragon before we get to Cantha!

Gliding is one simple mechanic – not a whole system. Its a movement thing and not traits, skills, weapons and loads of loads of stuff involved in combat mechanics.

And about seadrag stuff – do we have some base for it ingame – no, no unless you want to fight a sharknado because that is all in this case.

Squee.7829:

Neither the Lieutenant or the minions (excepting Sylvari) for Mordremoth were present for the first year or so of GW2’s lifetime, so that argument is out. Just because we don’t see underwater dragon influence doesn’t mean it wont be added

Except Great Jungle Wurm – he was added yesterday… And TTWurm – added 2h ago…
And as for minions – i was stupid – husks presnt even in the starter zone of maguma during beta.

Its at least a BASE for dragon – something is better then nothing and underwater stuff is dead.

Agemnon.4608:

Maybe krait aren’t “minions” per se but rather worshipers like the Sons of Svanir are for Jormag? The sea dragon is very clearly canon and like I said a possible scenario is it getting killed off screen without the player’s influence (preferably by a Quaggan uprising).

And Hylek are sun worshipers – do we have to fight Sun itself of Solaire Of Astora himself for some jolly cooperation ? Graws are worshiping everything that is ingame does that mean we gonna be fighting rocks – Redfield style ?
Worshiping means nothing.

And Quaggans are whimps that “can’t do this alone” all the time.

I’ve said it milions of times and i will keep doing it – this whole underwater BS requires too much effort – combat total overhaul, skills overhaul, classes rebalance, skills and traits overhaul, creating new minions (not some lame sharks and thundershrimps), mini bosses like Claw or Taquatl, overhaul of every map that hase even a puddle of water in it, creating underwater content like fractals (yeah those are awesome…), raid.

Its a thing for GW3 where this can be build from the start but here they can do another two dragons and stick to ground combat which after 4 years in nowhere near perfect, but nooo instead of it let’s whine about some stupid stuff that will waste time and resources of ANet. Very Good.

And after that i can already see all the whinerage on forums about “oh no, this map is like tangled depths but underwater anet fug plox nerf xdxd”

I really hope they will move away from drags because as the classic said – This won’t end well.

Whatever your opinion is, you can never say never with anything. But you continue telling us as if you definitively know.

Sorry I can’t be bothered to quote anymore, it’s just this is starting to turn into the ‘Thief doesn’t get staff because…’ all over again.

Underwater is okay. Remember that this dragon is also part of lore so they have to create him anyways. Underwater fight just needs more weapons or skills.
I don’t understand why they created trident and other weapons than just letting our surface weapons go underwater but with different skills available then.