Guild Wars 2

Basically that, what are the weapons or skills which you would consider “iconic” of a profession and how could you improve it?

For me it is the shield for Guardians, i find it that sword/shield has always been the iconic weapon for knight n shiny armor, yet shield #4 feels sooooooo underwhelming, makes me wonder why focus #5 (a wood weapon….lol) does a better job at defending than a “shield”.

Another one would be DPS staff for eles, you would think a “mage” archetype would be dangerous with its iconic weapon, yet it is probably the most iinefective ranged weapon in the game outside wall sieging in WvW, in sPvP is a free kill or a bunker, at which point they contribute almost nothing, even a D/D out do them in support and damage. I have yet to imagine Gandalf running at the orks with two daggers….

What are those things you think could get some tweakings?

Since I mainly play engi, I going to say turrets. Even when totally specced to a turret build, many of them still feel underwhelming.

Fortus.6175:

What are those things you think could get some tweakings?

The main tweak necessary is in the players’ head. “Iconic weapon” in this context actually means “I want ArenaNet to follow all fantasy stereotypes and so I’m going to complain until the weapons do exactly what I think they should do”.

Guardian’s shield is a group support tool, focus works for self defense. I couldn’t care less if someone thinks Guardians are “paladins” (WoW is over there ->) who should use shield for self defense. Same with Elementalists and staves – daggers are more damage focused, staves are more suited for utility, and that’s working rather nicely as it is. No need to change how those weapons work due to a player’s narrow point of view.

Having weapons matched with skills was something that I knew I wouldn’t like since builds would affect esthetics.
I agree with you about the guardian. I don’t even use him anymore

Erasculio.2914:

Fortus.6175:

What are those things you think could get some tweakings?

The main tweak necessary is in the players’ head. “Iconic weapon” in this context actually means “I want ArenaNet to follow all fantasy stereotypes and so I’m going to complain until the weapons do exactly what I think they should do”.

Guardian’s shield is a group support tool, focus works for self defense. I couldn’t care less if someone thinks Guardians are “paladins” (WoW is over there ->) who should use shield for self defense. Same with Elementalists and staves – daggers are more damage focused, staves are more suited for utility, and that’s working rather nicely as it is. No need to change how those weapons work due to a player’s narrow point of view.

-sigh- again someone had to bring Wow, because apparently THEY were the ones to set the standard for modern fantasy, right? Look, I understand many of you young gamers have only experienced WoW as your first MMO and have set your standards, but for us old gamers some archetypes have existed as long as roleplaying has existed. Some of those archetypes are; stealthy assassins, mages, healers, warriors, armored knight, archer. etc..

Look, I guess it is up to player’s liking, but personally (and a lot of peers have agreed with me on this one) there are certain “iconic things” that should not be disturbed too much.

For example, you wouldnt expect a thief to not have stealth, and to come out of the ground with a bucket full of worms and flowers. It doesnt fit them, right? Exactly, iconic thing for thieves is; stealth, mobility, daggers, hit and run, high damage. Was this achieved? Yes.

Ranger with a long bow able to do nasty damage, having a pet to aid you. Was this achieved? Yes (arguably, they could use some tweakings to pets Ai in PVE but other than that they do just fine)

Well, for guardian you would expect a guy with a shield to run in front of you, protecting you from whatever mayhem coming your way. Yet, shield #5 does achieve this, to certain extend, but shield #4?! You have to be facing your allies to get the best of it, yet if you are standing in from of the team you would have to turn away from the action, cast and sacrifice the damage. That, there, is counterproducive and something you would NOT expect of a shield in a protector archetype.

As for mage, it goes back to the youngest of all roleplaying and such, if you see a staff mage of any sort, you RUN, or you kill him before they can kill you. Go build damage sPvP staff and tell me how its goes.

The faults of the ele staff has nothing to do with ‘iconism’, in my opinion, using it looks and feels like a traditional mage. But the idea behind that is blowing opponents apart from a distance with really powerful spells, ‘powerful’ being the operative word, which the staff really is not. It’s spells are more easily avoided than any other set of weapon skills in the game, have longer cooldowns, and receive no bonus in power to balance out those disadvantages.

Fortus.6175:

For example, you wouldnt expect a thief to not have stealth, and to come out of the ground with a bucket full of worms and flowers. It doesnt fit them, right? Exactly, iconic thing for thieves is; stealth, mobility, daggers, hit and run, high damage.

In other words, the rogue stereotype is of a class using stealth, and so people assume all variations of them need to use it. Meanwhile, the rogue profession of the original Guild Wars, assassins, did not have stealth.

Do you know what’s the stereotype (or, I guess, the “iconic thing”) for MMORPGs? “Kill ten rats” quests while using the Holy Trinity. I guess we should complain about how ArenaNet is doing something different over there too, now?

Fortus.6175:

-sigh- again someone had to bring Wow, because apparently THEY were the ones to set the standard for modern fantasy, right?

It appears to be so. After all, we have people saying…

Fortus.6175:

Another one would be DPS staff for eles, you would think a “mage” archetype would be dangerous with its iconic weapon(…) I have yet to imagine Gandalf running at the orks with two daggers….

…Obviously without actually reading “The Lord of the Rings”. If they had read it, they would have noticed how Gandalf used a sword for combat considerably more often than a staff, and how said staff wasn’t used for throwing fireballs or any of the other concepts commonly linked to the “mage” archetype. In fact, the battle in the book between two mages used words as weapons, not any of the stereotypical “fantasy mage” effect.

Conncept.7638:

The faults of the ele staff has nothing to do with ‘iconism’, in my opinion, using it looks and feels like a traditional mage. But the idea behind that is blowing opponents apart enemies from a distance with really powerful spells, ‘powerful’ being the operative word, which the staff really is not. It’s spells are more easily avoided than any other set of weapon skills in the game, have longer cooldowns, and receive no bonus in power to balance out those disadvantages.

yeah, I guess you were able to say it better than I did anyways. Pretty much this, staff ele being my main and pretty much the only thing I play, I have realized, after giving other DPS classes, how much they are lacking on “power” even if they do land most things, let alone when the enemies get out walking (yes, literally walking away from it, no need to dodge, thats just sad) out of it with no more than a tickle on their bellies.

Erasculio.2914:

Fortus.6175:

For example, you wouldnt expect a thief to not have stealth, and to come out of the ground with a bucket full of worms and flowers. It doesnt fit them, right? Exactly, iconic thing for thieves is; stealth, mobility, daggers, hit and run, high damage.

In other words, the rogue stereotype is of a class using stealth, and so people assume all variations of them need to use it. Meanwhile, the rogue profession of the original Guild Wars, assassins, did not have stealth.

Do you know what’s the stereotype (or, I guess, the “iconic thing”) for MMORPGs? “Kill ten rats” quests while using the Holy Trinity. I guess we should complain about how ArenaNet is doing something different over there too, now?

Fortus.6175:

-sigh- again someone had to bring Wow, because apparently THEY were the ones to set the standard for modern fantasy, right?

It appears to be so. After all, we have people saying…

Fortus.6175:

Another one would be DPS staff for eles, you would think a “mage” archetype would be dangerous with its iconic weapon(…) I have yet to imagine Gandalf running at the orks with two daggers….

…Obviously without actually reading “The Lord of the Rings”. If they had read it, they would have noticed how Gandalf used a sword for combat considerably more often than a staff, and how said staff wasn’t used for throwing fireballs or any of the other concepts commonly linked to the “mage” archetype. In fact, the battle in the book between two mages used words as weapons, not any of the stereotypical “fantasy mage” effect.

I read it, yes, he used a sword, yes, yet most of the “magical” things happened with the staff, hence the “mage” thing.

I didnt play Gw1, so I cant judge the classes there, but it seems they learned from their “mistake” with their rogue archetype and added stealth on this game (think about that)

There is no denying, if they want to “click” with old gamers and new ones they will need to fill in some of those things that many of us are looking, there is no point trying to change me now, if I like sword/shield as a defender thing, if I dont get my fill, eventually, when a game comes with the same quality as GW2 but that fill that niche feeling then people will start migrating, has happened, thats how many MMos die.

Im not saying Anet have to catter to EVERY NEED out there but I think the “defender” archetype is iconic enough to make it a very desirable thing, if you dont believe me, check the amount guardians you already have ingame, playing with shield , attempting, trying with their hardest to make it work, only to give it up.

This is just another thinly veiled complain thread about Guardian shield and focus skills from Fortus because the last thread was moved out of the general discussion forum.

CobaltSixty.1542:

This is just another thinly veiled complain thread about Guardian shield and focus skills from Fortus because the last thread was moved out of the general discussion forum.

oh hey look! thanks for the bump! Yeah, this is a thread to get some things improved, in this case shield, staff and anything else that players feel underwhelming.

Last one did get moved but Im glad it got moved, I got some nice feedback on the guardian forum. Im now trying to see if we can get a recollection of underwhelming things in game. In my case shield fits here, same for staff, but not, this is not about that solely, nor a complain. But like I said, bumps are always welcomed!

So your problem is that you’re unhappy with the specific skills attributed to the iconic weapons that Anet did in fact give you access to? I mean, you have a Guardian with a shield that can defend allies but that’s not good enough, it has to be designed the way you want it otherwise Anet isn’t being true to older players? And simply because dagger/dagger eles are more effective, that’s not making the staff an uber-weapon, you fel that the devs are untrue to fantasy architypes?

Ranger Pets.

Nuff said.

Very iconic & possible in GW2 IMHO:
- Elementalist – Staff.
- Ranger – Long-Bow .
-Guardian – Sword &Shield.
- Necro – Scepter & Focus.
- Warrior – Greatsword.
- Thief – Dual Dagger user.
- Eng. – Any Fire weapon.

Not so iconic and quite ilogical in GW2:
– Mesmer & Ranger- Great Sword. Just insane!

- Warriors that can’t use daggers if they want, but can use all other heavy weapon types… (The same goes for Mesmers…they can use GSwords…but can’t use a simple dagger…go figure…!!)