Guild Wars 2

Why is that? Why is that whenever Anet changes dungeons like HOTW and CoF and SE, and now AC and CoE, theres no patch notes about it or even explanation???

What did they change?

pdavis.8031:

What did they change?

For example:

CoF p1 they put a door so you cant run up and lose aggro
HOTW they changed the old troll into AC troll
and now

Spider Queen AC now does AoE damage even if you stack
Golems in CoE now started moving

Butter, you need to learn how to forum. You can’t just open with a discussion about UNLISTED dungeon changes, proceed to ask open ended questions on why the change(s) were made, and then fail to include what the changes were!!

EDIT: Explanation was added whilst I was making my comment. Kudos, Butter. Kudos.

“Spider Queen AC now does AoE damage even if you stack”

\o\
/o/
:D

This made the day for me. Awesome news. Still, the AC is really kittened easy after the trait scaling introduction, but… it’s something!

As for not listing the changes… It’s good. Nothing like suddenly finding out that something changed in the old, monotonous run and having to actually think and work around it. Besides, the very thought of all the dead stacked players makes me grin. I never stack this boss and leave the dungeon if somebody wants to. :P

Butter.3024:

pdavis.8031:

What did they change?

For example:

CoF p1 they put a door so you cant run up and lose aggro
HOTW they changed the old troll into AC troll
and now

Spider Queen AC now does AoE damage even if you stack
Golems in CoE now started moving

You mean the troll that you could stand up high and range without fear of any real danger?

Or the spider queen that was meant to be fought in that open area, but could be exploited by stacking in a corner so she can’t AoE you properly?

These sound like good changes.

I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.

Because, instead of ninja nerfs, these are changes they want us to find “organically”. It’s their excuse for “forgetting” to include stuff in the patch notes.

pdavis.8031:

I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.

you obviously dont even do dungeons then

They changed to spider queen in AC you say? Well now I’m thoroughly confused. When I said (and I’m sure many others) that stacking against the queen was an exploit-for the very same reason; bosses simply do not use their abilities, I got infarcted for wrongfully accusing players of inappropriate behaviour in the game. Now after many many months it’s fixed out of the blue which means it was an exploit? Obviously, because if it was ‘working as intended’ then there would be no reason to fix it…to do the same bloody thing some of us were saying it should do and players were exploiting the fact that it didn’t in the first place.

Then wtf did I get infarcted for?

If they fix exploits, it’s not too bothersome if they don’t include them in notes.
But if they tweak bosses (or even fix their AI, but for Anet, they aren’t fixing their AI because everything is working as intended) or add a door somewhere, it’d be nice to get a warning.

Butter.3024:

pdavis.8031:

I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.

you obviously dont even do dungeons then

I do dungeons all the time. and if IIRC I know I’ve seen the spider queens AoE while stacked. Please don’t make insulting assumptions. As far as HoTW troll is AC troll, are you saying that it functions in the same way? That the mechanics are the same? I am confused by what you mean by that statement.

pdavis.8031:

Butter.3024:

pdavis.8031:

I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.

you obviously dont even do dungeons then

I do dungeons all the time. and if IIRC I know I’ve seen the spider queens AoE while stacked. Please don’t make insulting assumptions. As far as HoTW troll is AC troll, are you saying that it functions in the same way? That the mechanics are the same? I am confused by what you mean by that statement.

I used to think like you regarding the AC spider, but then had to admit I was wrong when people showed me videos of players soloing the Queen in the middle of the room, in melee range, without getting one single circle on them.
The common element that was ruining that was mesmer clones, which a friend got a kick out of doing to PuGs stacking on the pillar (since the clone will move out of melee range, the spider will spit her poison around).

As for HotW, I personally didn’t try it, but guildies told me that his mechanics are the same as AC troll.

Lol, spider queen now hits like a truck Really people, why don’t you put stuff like this in release notes. Its not only spider queen a lot of other stuff feels “adjusted” now.

Imbune.5497:

They changed to spider queen in AC you say? Well now I’m thoroughly confused. When I said (and I’m sure many others) that stacking against the queen was an exploit-for the very same reason; bosses simply do not use their abilities, I got infarcted for wrongfully accusing players of inappropriate behaviour in the game. Now after many many months it’s fixed out of the blue which means it was an exploit? Obviously, because if it was ‘working as intended’ then there would be no reason to fix it…to do the same bloody thing some of us were saying it should do and players were exploiting the fact that it didn’t in the first place.

Then wtf did I get infarcted for?

it’s not an exploit, it’s just like the ferocity nerf – they just made changes so that people would stop crying on the forums.

what will either happen is (lol) pugs will learn how to do it properly or AC will become another dungeon pugs avoid.

alternatively, you’ll get the “know your stuff, lvl 80, zerk only, exp only, ping gear 100,000 AP” stupid lfgs listed by bads who want someone to carry them.

RedStar.4218:

pdavis.8031:

Butter.3024:

pdavis.8031:

I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.

you obviously dont even do dungeons then

I do dungeons all the time. and if IIRC I know I’ve seen the spider queens AoE while stacked. Please don’t make insulting assumptions. As far as HoTW troll is AC troll, are you saying that it functions in the same way? That the mechanics are the same? I am confused by what you mean by that statement.

I used to think like you regarding the AC spider, but then had to admit I was wrong when people showed me videos of players soloing the Queen in the middle of the room, in melee range, without getting one single circle on them.
The common element that was ruining that was mesmer clones, which a friend got a kick out of doing to PuGs stacking on the pillar (since the clone will move out of melee range, the spider will spit her poison around).

As for HotW, I personally didn’t try it, but guildies told me that his mechanics are the same as AC troll.

I’ve seen those videos too, but the ones I’ve seen still have the AoE being launched, just not near, or within dodging range. As far as the stack, I would think that the AoEs were still being lanched, just with the position of the stack, they made them pretty much useless.

RedStar.4218:

pdavis.8031:

Butter.3024:

pdavis.8031:

I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.

you obviously dont even do dungeons then

I do dungeons all the time. and if IIRC I know I’ve seen the spider queens AoE while stacked. Please don’t make insulting assumptions. As far as HoTW troll is AC troll, are you saying that it functions in the same way? That the mechanics are the same? I am confused by what you mean by that statement.

I used to think like you regarding the AC spider, but then had to admit I was wrong when people showed me videos of players soloing the Queen in the middle of the room, in melee range, without getting one single circle on them.
The common element that was ruining that was mesmer clones, which a friend got a kick out of doing to PuGs stacking on the pillar (since the clone will move out of melee range, the spider will spit her poison around).

As for HotW, I personally didn’t try it, but guildies told me that his mechanics are the same as AC troll.

Its not just the same mechanics..it’s the very same troll. It drops ac tokens and items. It was a copy/paste.

Essence Snow.3194:

RedStar.4218:

pdavis.8031:

Butter.3024:

pdavis.8031:

I thought spider queen always did AoE damage even when stacked? Its just usually there are so many condition cleanses going on, it’s hard to tell. CoF p1? Which part? We need specifics, just saying HoTW trolli s now AC troll, doesn’t really tell us much. Unless you are refering to the model that is being used.

you obviously dont even do dungeons then

I do dungeons all the time. and if IIRC I know I’ve seen the spider queens AoE while stacked. Please don’t make insulting assumptions. As far as HoTW troll is AC troll, are you saying that it functions in the same way? That the mechanics are the same? I am confused by what you mean by that statement.

I used to think like you regarding the AC spider, but then had to admit I was wrong when people showed me videos of players soloing the Queen in the middle of the room, in melee range, without getting one single circle on them.
The common element that was ruining that was mesmer clones, which a friend got a kick out of doing to PuGs stacking on the pillar (since the clone will move out of melee range, the spider will spit her poison around).

As for HotW, I personally didn’t try it, but guildies told me that his mechanics are the same as AC troll.

Its not just the same mechanics..it’s the very same troll. It drops ac tokens and items. It was a copy/paste.

Well that IS interesting…will have to check it out later.

HotW troll has the same skills as the AC troll along with the same mechanics. When they did the change, the troll was dropping AC tokens the first few hours till they fixed it. Got quiet a laugh out of that since it just seems they did a copy and paste for him.

Oh wow, they really gave up on having a dedicated dungeon team haven’t they ?

Imbune.5497:

They changed to spider queen in AC you say? Well now I’m thoroughly confused. When I said (and I’m sure many others) that stacking against the queen was an exploit-for the very same reason; bosses simply do not use their abilities, I got infarcted for wrongfully accusing players of inappropriate behaviour in the game. Now after many many months it’s fixed out of the blue which means it was an exploit? Obviously, because if it was ‘working as intended’ then there would be no reason to fix it…to do the same bloody thing some of us were saying it should do and players were exploiting the fact that it didn’t in the first place.

Then wtf did I get infarcted for?

You got infracted for accusing people of using an exploit, duh. Doesn’t matter whether what you were accusing them of was wrong or right. Same thing as someone accusing a specific player of hacking in the wvw forums or whatever. You may report them, but no public slandering in the forums, that’s how Anet rolls (which is a good thing, internet people would be so fast at grabbing the torches and pitchfork at whichever occasion.)

Geez, after all that time, most people still dont know why spider queen is even done in that specific corner. Its not because of her aoe.
Oh well, good groups will continue doing her in that corner, for pugs it will eventually be a lot harder from now on

Asmodeus.5782:

Nothing like suddenly finding out that something changed in the old, monotonous run and having to actually think and work around it.

Nothing changed for real zerker parties. Just for pugs that don’t like stacking “let’s do it the old way”…

Kibazuka.1390:

Geez, after all that time, most people still dont know why spider queen is even done in that specific corner. Its not because of her aoe.
Oh well, good groups will continue doing her in that corner, for pugs it will eventually be a lot harder from now on

A lot of PuGs “learned” dungeons by following other PuGs around without questioning anything.
That’s sometime the depressing part of joining a PuG in GW2 : they are loud when you don’t follow their orders, but are quite quiet when you ask the point doing specific wall hugging without an elementalist.

yup.

i’ve done arah p3 with pugs, asked them why they were stacking wraithlord and these are the responses:

http://i.imgur.com/RoRl8Nr.jpg

pugs don’t know why they stack (spoiler: every answer was incorrect). I started fighting in the middle, they got out of their pointless stack and killed it with me.

Isn’t the HotW thing old news? Seems like that’s been in place for months now.

Imbune.5497:

They changed to spider queen in AC you say? Well now I’m thoroughly confused. When I said (and I’m sure many others) that stacking against the queen was an exploit-for the very same reason; bosses simply do not use their abilities, I got infarcted for wrongfully accusing players of inappropriate behaviour in the game. Now after many many months it’s fixed out of the blue which means it was an exploit? Obviously, because if it was ‘working as intended’ then there would be no reason to fix it…to do the same bloody thing some of us were saying it should do and players were exploiting the fact that it didn’t in the first place.

Then wtf did I get infarcted for?

Your logic is flawed. Just because they fix something doesn’t mean it is an exploit per se. If they fix say drop rates does that mean an item’s drop rate was exploited? No it could be various other reasons. It could be that spider queen they felt after the feature patch update was too easy. So they changed it to this. Or maybe this was an unintended change (look at alphard). ArenaNet doesn’t write these changes so one can only assume what it means.

CuRtoKy.8576:

So they changed it to this. Or maybe this was an unintended change (look at alphard).

It’s been a while since I’ve been in Arah p2 (around 3 months).

But which unintended change are you talking about ? When they silently buffed Alphard ?
Or did something else happen ?

RedStar.4218:

CuRtoKy.8576:

So they changed it to this. Or maybe this was an unintended change (look at alphard).

It’s been a while since I’ve been in Arah p2 (around 3 months).

But which unintended change are you talking about ? When they silently buffed Alphard ?
Or did something else happen ?

Many patches ago Alphard was changed where if he pulls someone he lays down a bomb and that bomb exploded almost instantly meaning everyone in your party must dodge the pull, use reflects/projectile absorption to cover it, or stability dodge. Most pugs struggle with this. Then recently they reverted the change to alphard back to how it was ages ago so if he pulls and lays the bomb down it doesn’t explode instantly. It takes a very long time where even if someone in your party get hit by the pull you have like 2-3 seconds to react (more than enough time for anyone to dodge).

Ohh I see, thank you for the answer ^^.

i think the aoe change to spider is lame, not because its anti stacking, but because it is so poorly thought out. They need to go deeper instead of just throwing something out there, sigh.

Not sure why they’d change Malrona’s projectile AOE to be unreflectable. An overpowered and hard to dodge skill requiring an existing skill mechanic to avoid for newer players (considering it’s a level 55 dungeon).

Way to punish ingenuity.

It’s not that hard to dodge it. It’s rather predictable because she charges up her attack (or something like that).

But it does kind of annoy me how reflecting skills are getting hit more and more after each updates.

RedStar.4218:

It’s not that hard to dodge it. It’s rather predictable because she charges up her attack (or something like that).

But it does kind of annoy me how reflecting skills are getting hit more and more after each updates.

the problem is also that they are changing them in an unsaid way. You dont make rules, and then break them some times, and you wont know till you try. Its stupid. come up with a system/ruleset and stick to it.

I’m not very happy with the AC change – it makes it less farmable and thus incentive to go back is lower now.

Still – what really baffles me is why they don’t put these changes in the patch notes.

Why do they give us skills if they hate it when we actually use them?

I think they just want to surprise/punish people by breaking their typical routine with these ninja changes n cause their whole party to wipe and be confused.

Harper.4173:

I’m not very happy with the AC change – it makes it less farmable and thus incentive to go back is lower now.

Still – what really baffles me is why they don’t put these changes in the patch notes.

run with guild/friends.

maha.7902:

yup.

i’ve done arah p3 with pugs, asked them why they were stacking wraithlord and these are the responses:

http://i.imgur.com/RoRl8Nr.jpg

pugs don’t know why they stack (spoiler: every answer was incorrect). I started fighting in the middle, they got out of their pointless stack and killed it with me.

Hmmm, why do you stack Wraith o.o?

I just run up to him and faceroll, then he’s dead, didn’t know there was some sort of a stacking tactic on that guy.

@Harper AC has a higher payout than other dungeons for a reason you know :V

Anyone who thinks stacking is exploiting is too inept to be taken seriously.

You never HAD to stack to prevent the Spider Queen from using its AoE, christ. All you had to do was stand in melee ranged and it wouldn’t do it. It’s a RANGED attack.

Anyone who thought stacking in the corner was an exploit is basically implying that meleeing anything is cheating and that you should only be ranging everything. Illogical.

they made cc skills useless in pve….and now they’re trying to do it w/ reflects.
why not adjust reflect damage on bosses if you aren’t capable of improving boss attack patterns?

next time i read a dev post with the words “in order to promote build diversity”……..LOL

every move they make in pve narrows the desirable build selection to zerk gear and +% damage modifier traits….for every class. fractals is all that remains.

Kibazuka.1390:

Oh well, good groups will continue doing her in that corner, for pugs it will eventually be a lot harder from now on

Stairs stacking is not an option anymore even for experienced groups because the amount of poison is so high now that she can wipe the whole party in a matter of three ticks. You can use condition mitigation/cleansing but still having to do so you lose time which allows her to use AoE again.

I don’t care about the changes themselves. I just would really like it if they would TELL US WHEN THEY CHANGE SOMETHING.

Relshdan.6854:

they made cc skills useless in pve….

they did?

(runs off to go see)

edit:
Nope still works.

Just personally, I actually kinda liked the ninja changes. Tonight was probably the most exciting night of dungeon runs I’ve had in a while, with highlights being stuff like ‘am I tripping balls or did the golem just move?’.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Just personally, I actually kinda liked the ninja changes. Tonight was probably the most exciting night of dungeon runs I’ve had in a while, with highlights being stuff like ‘am I tripping balls or did the golem just move?’.

0.o

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Lmfao, Xae that reminds me of how I reacted when I first saw Mage crusher move when I was in a pug.

My 2 friends and I were spamming in caps and laughing… was hysterical. I loved it. Took us offguard xD

holodoc.5748:

Kibazuka.1390:

Oh well, good groups will continue doing her in that corner, for pugs it will eventually be a lot harder from now on

Stairs stacking is not an option anymore even for experienced groups because the amount of poison is so high now that she can wipe the whole party in a matter of three ticks. You can use condition mitigation/cleansing but still having to do so you lose time which allows her to use AoE again.

Uh, the spider is dead before she even does anything

holodoc.5748:

Kibazuka.1390:

Oh well, good groups will continue doing her in that corner, for pugs it will eventually be a lot harder from now on

Stairs stacking is not an option anymore even for experienced groups because the amount of poison is so high now that she can wipe the whole party in a matter of three ticks.

Unless you kill her before she uses that attack, which is definitely doable for an experienced group.

My reaction to AC Spider Queen not stackable anymore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPmb0F00YPE

Because I hate stacking.