Untradable weapon skins

Untradable weapon skins

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Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

This was my original thought too. There have been people now and then on these forums asking for more “exclusive” sets. I don’t recall if they have been asking for them to be in game rewards or straight up cash spending. But I do very much doubt being behind the BLTC gambling, no one would want that would they? O.O

“Exclusive” rewards should be earn through playing their godforsaken game, not something that anybody can buy for money. And they actually realised this, when they made the new legendaries account bound, but now here we are again… you can buy “exclusive” and “special” stuff for money, you don’t have to earn it.

Sarah’s explonation was cute about this weapon set is special, but it’s a dumb thing to believe is a good and beliveable reason. So well, congrats, Anet, the ship is still sinking.

I agree with both of you. Some of the areas that I know from my own experience and seeing the conversations of others online is that something comes out, it is supposed to be a one time reward and you feel actually “rewarded” for doing the content and what you had to do to obtain something and then they make them purchasable from a vendor or make them available in the Mystic Forge. “What? I worked my behind off to get this and now anyone can get it easily? It was only supposed to be available during ‘_’ content.”

I have felt that sting a little too. I think exclusive rewards should be from content as well, but as I said, it was a stretch to explain why they MIGHT have made them account bound. They offer skins that would be semi-exclusive and they could make money from it too. I honestly don’t think that is the real explanation, but was just offering it up as an “out there” possibility.

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Posted by: Cactus Brawler.7415

Cactus Brawler.7415

The problem isn’t for those that get tickets and scraps. The problem is the people who don’t who want these skins. This decision hurts them.

Really, I understand that it looks frustrating from the get go, and you might think you will never get one. But in the long run this is just nonsense, and it’s not impossible to put in some effort and get these skins regardless of not wanting to spend money.

So it takes a bit more effort than usual, and those who invest money can get it much faster.
It’s like complaining about ascended weapons being account bound. Or HoT Legendaries.

And that all is on top of it being something that is supposed to generate money for ArenaNet either way, and reward those that actually do spend money to get some more reward for their money, if they wish to do so. Which isn’t a bad thing.

It’s basically complaining you don’t want this game to have any further development.

The problem is, it is theoretically possible that no matter the effort you put in, no matter the amount of gold you turn into BLC Keys, no matter the amount of real life money you use to buy said keys, it is possible to never get any scraps or tickets.

What is the drop rate for tickets again, something like five per cent?

Again they’ve removed the none RNG method for getting these, some people are just naturally very unlucky. They could spend from now, until the game shuts down farming gold, turning the gold to keys and never get anything more than level tomes, and material bags from their keys.

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Posted by: TheMagickDoll.7594

TheMagickDoll.7594

After all, by buying chests, you’re supporting the creation of the content that everyone plays.

I will gladly support a game I enjoy, but I will never support the gambling boxes that are black lion chests. If you sold these weapons as weapon set skin packs, I would be gladly spend some money on it. But I will never buy keys. This whole buying a key for a “chance to get something you want” is a farce and is not something I will put money on.

Either sell the items straight out or put it in game, but I have had enough of this gambling business. Its not fun, majority of people that I have talked to hate it or believe it is some sort of “necessary evil” (which is total BS). From what I have seen, it is the most disliked thing about this game. If not for someone else, it is for me.

I have supported the game in other ways, but it has never been through buying keys and it never will.

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Posted by: Paulytnz.7619

Paulytnz.7619

The problem isn’t for those that get tickets and scraps. The problem is the people who don’t who want these skins. This decision hurts them.

Really, I understand that it looks frustrating from the get go, and you might think you will never get one. But in the long run this is just nonsense, and it’s not impossible to put in some effort and get these skins regardless of not wanting to spend money.

So it takes a bit more effort than usual, and those who invest money can get it much faster.
It’s like complaining about ascended weapons being account bound. Or HoT Legendaries.

And that all is on top of it being something that is supposed to generate money for ArenaNet either way, and reward those that actually do spend money to get some more reward for their money, if they wish to do so. Which isn’t a bad thing.

It’s basically complaining you don’t want this game to have any further development.

The problem is, it is theoretically possible that no matter the effort you put in, no matter the amount of gold you turn into BLC Keys, no matter the amount of real life money you use to buy said keys, it is possible to never get any scraps or tickets.

What is the drop rate for tickets again, something like five per cent?

Again they’ve removed the none RNG method for getting these, some people are just naturally very unlucky. They could spend from now, until the game shuts down farming gold, turning the gold to keys and never get anything more than level tomes, and material bags from their keys.

People could always “farm” keys instead of gold to trade for keys. Yes I know they removed the “key farm” but that does not mean you still can not farm keys. There are a number of ways:

1 – If you have alt chars at lvl 80 you can run them through their personal stories, that’s 3 keys each right there (2 if you don’t wait a week between them for the lvl 10 key).

2 – Running each alt through the HOT story if you have HOT also gives 1 key per person. The whole HOT story only takes you 1-2 days to do depending on if you know what you are doing and have the time to do it.

3 – Running your chars through LS2 also gives another key each but imo that’s is not worth the time it takes.

4 – Farm “map completes” this is probably one of the best methods.

5 – Create a new char, rush them through their PS and a few map completes here and there to get them to lvl 80. Go through their PS for another 3 keys and then HOT for the 4th. Keep in mind that doing map completes to lvl them up should also net them a few more keys. You don’t have to do world complete. Just do enough maps to get them to level 80. Of course this whole process can be a lot more fun if you just stick to doing maps that you know well and like doing. Get the keys, delete and repeat.

So we see there is not only 2 options. That being spend real cash and buying keys or trading massive amounts of gold for gems to buy keys. Sometimes people just need to think outside of the square. Also as the Dev said these hopefully are not going anywhere and will always stay at that 1 ticket cost. So really, there is no real rush to complete the set. Just work on the skins you want bit by bit. Because really, that 3 AP for the achievement is hardly something to worry about anyway. And the ticket reward? Well that’s just a slight return for what you are paying anyway so forget that.

PS, having said all of that, it does not mean I am for these being untradeable. Just something else to think about.

Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?

(edited by Paulytnz.7619)

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

The problem isn’t for those that get tickets and scraps. The problem is the people who don’t who want these skins. This decision hurts them.

Really, I understand that it looks frustrating from the get go, and you might think you will never get one. But in the long run this is just nonsense, and it’s not impossible to put in some effort and get these skins regardless of not wanting to spend money.

So it takes a bit more effort than usual, and those who invest money can get it much faster.
It’s like complaining about ascended weapons being account bound. Or HoT Legendaries.

And that all is on top of it being something that is supposed to generate money for ArenaNet either way, and reward those that actually do spend money to get some more reward for their money, if they wish to do so. Which isn’t a bad thing.

It’s basically complaining you don’t want this game to have any further development.

The problem is, it is theoretically possible that no matter the effort you put in, no matter the amount of gold you turn into BLC Keys, no matter the amount of real life money you use to buy said keys, it is possible to never get any scraps or tickets.

What is the drop rate for tickets again, something like five per cent?

Again they’ve removed the none RNG method for getting these, some people are just naturally very unlucky. They could spend from now, until the game shuts down farming gold, turning the gold to keys and never get anything more than level tomes, and material bags from their keys.

33 % for a scrap, 2% for a ticket. (per chest) If you believe the wiki drop-table. I wouldn’t really count on the ticket dropping, but scraps do drop quite regularly.

I don’t disagree it’s very RNG-y and that feel much like gambling, but this is not a problem that was caused overnight, that has always been a problem. Plus if this is rewarding those people who do buy keys or get keys whichever other way, then that’s a good thing, because it’s those people that provide any TP stock of these weapons.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: Nadha.6097

Nadha.6097

You know what I always wondered: how do all these “vault” skins get to the trading post in the first place if they are tradeable?

I will not ever buy a key (and it doesn’t matter if it is for gems or gold) because the RNG of the boxes and items you get from them is/are horrible and all that boostercrap you get is piling up in my bank anyways –
- I am willing to get skins or other items for gems (cash or gold) IF I can decide in advance that I am able to buy THIS specific skin (or colour for that matter)

I openend the chests where I had keys for (that somehow dropped on me) and it was an appaling experience, which I would never pay anything for to repeat !

But somehow people really must be into those keys otherwise you would not complain on 6 pages over a set of skins being account bound or not….

Stylewise the set makes sense and really looks good – I most likely will never own a piece of it though.
But then my virtual companions make mostly do without BLT skins some years now

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I think it’s fine to have a set of more exclusive skins. It seems there is a set of players that enjoy exclusivity.

As for keys, they aren’t that difficult to come by without using cash or even Gold. The rate of ticket scraps isn’t bad, either.

I imagine with all the lamenting going on, this will be the only Account-bound set. A shame, really, as they don’t really tickle my fancy.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

RULE 1: Don’t buy anything from anyone that I can’t actually see before handing over my cash.

You can preview the weapons in your Bank’s wardrobe. You just have to know what the name of the skin is. In this case Privateer. So go to a crafting station or a bank.

Seera, Bbear was talking about the result of opening a chest, not being able to see the weapon skins. If you buy a key, you don’t know what you’re going to get in exchange for that key. If you don’t like what you get, you can’t return or exchange it.

No, he explicitly stated claim tickets so unless those can now open chests, my answer is correct.

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Posted by: ekarat.1085

ekarat.1085

Reading this thread, we understand your questions and want to share a little information: This set is designed to be a special, exclusive set and therefore it’s a little different than most. There are a couple of other interesting factors that you’ll want to know: The set is available for one ticket. It will remain priced at one ticket into the future, so someone who wants it now doesn’t need to be concerned about it becoming unavailable or about it rising in price in the future. Other sets currently available are not account bound, such as the Cavalier Weapon Set which was recently released at a price of 1 Black Lion Claim Ticket and remains at that price now. In addition, we do intend to continue to offer tradeable sets in the future. If you’d like a preview of the new set, go to your bank wardrobe and filter for “Privateer.” We hope this answers your questions, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

-Sarah

I appreciate the clarification. I do wish this information was clear from the beginning, which could have offset some of the backlash.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

The problem isn’t for those that get tickets and scraps. The problem is the people who don’t who want these skins. This decision hurts them.

Really, I understand that it looks frustrating from the get go, and you might think you will never get one. But in the long run this is just nonsense, and it’s not impossible to put in some effort and get these skins regardless of not wanting to spend money.

So it takes a bit more effort than usual, and those who invest money can get it much faster.
It’s like complaining about ascended weapons being account bound. Or HoT Legendaries.

And that all is on top of it being something that is supposed to generate money for ArenaNet either way, and reward those that actually do spend money to get some more reward for their money, if they wish to do so. Which isn’t a bad thing.

It’s basically complaining you don’t want this game to have any further development.

When they did they put everything in the store in the chests? I can and do buy gems for things like glide skins and account upgrades and style kits. But I do not buy keys. I do not support the chests being opened by keys purchased with money do the high chances of not getting anything worthwhile out of it. And the fact that they’ve stuck a skin in there that can only be obtained via openning those chests with a horrendous drop table is deplorable and may affect my desire to buy gems with money in the future. I’m already not going to get those skins even though I have the tickets to get all of the ones I want.

I can still support the game without buying keys, so stop talking like my anger over this and my decision to not buy keys means I will not support the game via gem purchases.

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

I’d like to reply to those who are saying that making this set account-bound is “a money grab.” Please keep in mind that we make the same amount of revenue for each BLC weapon skin that enters the game through MTX regardless of whether or not that weapon skin is later resold on the trading post.

The currency exchange is a player driven market and as the gem-to-gold exchange rate has increased, the trading post value of BLC weapon skins hasn’t kept pace. That leads to the common complaint that it feels bad to buy Black Lion chests for gems, because it seems as if they’re full of things that you could have bought more cheaply by converting your gems to gold instead. It’s not our goal to make you feel like a chump for buying chests. After all, by buying chests, you’re supporting the creation of the content that everyone plays. So it’s nice for there to be account-bound things in the chests in addition to the other tradeable items. With a lot of the chest contents, it’s not possible for them to be account-bound, because for a lot of things you’d be screwed if you got dupes and couldn’t off-load them to friends or onto the Trading Post. By putting the skins on the Black Lion Weapon Specialists we support those who have stored tickets and still have a combination of account-bound and non-account-bound items in the chest, as we did before today’s release.

This set of purely cosmetic skins still can ultimately be acquired either by purchasing them or by earning gold in the game and trading it for gems. If you like getting skins from the chests that can’t be obtained more cheaply through the trading post, use your claim tickets on these weapons. Or if you prefer tradeable skins, use your claim tickets for the other weapon sets, or acquire those weapon sets by trading for them with other players who bought them with claim tickets.

We on the dev team want to thank you again for taking the time to share your views with us.

It would be super helpful if you were responding to what the majority of us are saying in our argument. You aren’t though. I am sure your metrics show that a ton of people like to gamble their gold or real money on chests. I get that. Preying on the proclivities of people who like to gamble isn’t a new thing. Releasing skins that can only be acquired through luck is awful. It’s doubly awful after charging money for an expansion that promised new legendary weapons that are now suspended indefinitely.

My other issue with this is that no one asked for weapons to be delivered in this fashion. Not a single person from the community wanted this. There are things the community has asked for that you used to offer like like new earnable armor sets or even armor skins coming back to the cash shop.

Where’s the Legendary Raid Armor?

This new little experiment you guys are doing with these skins is super gross. Full stop.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Dear ANet. If you want to make money may I suggest you look for ideas in these threads where people have asked for things, rather than this account bound weapons idea that literally no one has asked for.

Suggestions: Gemstore items
Requests for old items
Glider suggestions

If you wanted to make money on a weapon set, why didn’t you consider bringing back the Fused weapon set which people have been begging for for years now and supply is close to zero?

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: mrstealth.6701

mrstealth.6701

My other issue with this is that no one asked for weapons to be delivered in this fashion. Not a single person from the community wanted this. There are things the community has asked for that you used to offer like like new earnable armor sets or even armor skins coming back to the cash shop.

It’s impossible say with certainty that no one likes this system, but from what I have seen there are quite a few that aren’t happy that it is practically the only way weapon skins get added. The fact that it’s based on RNG instead of direct purchases makes it worse to a lot of us, as well. Anet seems to be completely oblivious to these finer points.

The situation with gemstore armor skins was almost the same. Players seemed more unhappy with the fact that the gemstore was the only place to get new armor skins, not the fact that armor skins were being sold there. Anet’s “solution” of only selling one-piece outfits was born from this failure to understand the issue, combined with the ease of producing outfits compared to mix-and-match-able armor sets. The result is that since they vowed to no longer sell armor skins in the store, we’ve only had somewhere around 6-7 sets of armor added, at least half of which require HoT to obtain.

I understand that armors are considerably more work to make, so they aren’t going to be added as often as outfits. But that’s not really much of an excuse to almost never add them at all. For a game where skins and fashion are the primary end-game, that $50 expansion had an abysmally low number of new skins added with it. And to add further insult to the lack of new armor, the pace of BLC weapons seems like it’s just ramped up since then, proving just how easy it is to add new weapon skins.

Footsteps Of War [FoW] | Yak’s Bend
Seer Of The Divine | Sarina Starlight | Tireasa | Caedyra

(edited by mrstealth.6701)

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

When they did they put everything in the store in the chests? I can and do buy gems for things like glide skins and account upgrades and style kits. But I do not buy keys. I do not support the chests being opened by keys purchased with money do the high chances of not getting anything worthwhile out of it. And the fact that they’ve stuck a skin in there that can only be obtained via openning those chests with a horrendous drop table is deplorable and may affect my desire to buy gems with money in the future. I’m already not going to get those skins even though I have the tickets to get all of the ones I want.

I can still support the game without buying keys, so stop talking like my anger over this and my decision to not buy keys means I will not support the game via gem purchases.

So. You don’t agree with Black Lion Chest Keys being bought with gems in general? But when they are tradable its fine? Because that’s the only thing where this special set is different. That’s almost a double standard. A key will always have to be used. And that key may or may not have been bought.

There’s many ways to get Black Lion keys without buying them. And that you do have enough tickets yourself and refuse to buy these just proves your weird logic. If you can get them then everyone can get them. All players have the same opportunities.

But yes I worded that strangely. I was mostly thinking about people buying keys with gems rather than everyone buying gems. And definitely not specifically you. Since ArenaNet does make money off this system and I can assume it is significant enough to ignore my own support regarding that. So it is in a way important to the game’s development.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: Metasynaptic.1093

Metasynaptic.1093

Every time black lion keys go on discount, my guild jokes and calls it ‘the yearly reminder as to why we don’t buy black lion keys’.

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Posted by: Paulytnz.7619

Paulytnz.7619

Every time black lion keys go on discount, my guild jokes and calls it ‘the yearly reminder as to why we don’t buy black lion keys’.

You Sir/Madam just got a +1 for this reply. :P

Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?

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Posted by: KokoroPixie.3786

KokoroPixie.3786

After all, by buying chests, you’re supporting the creation of the content that everyone plays. So it’s nice for there to be account-bound things in the chests in addition to the other tradeable items. With a lot of the chest contents, it’s not possible for them to be account-bound, because for a lot of things you’d be screwed if you got dupes and couldn’t off-load them to friends or onto the Trading Post. By putting the skins on the Black Lion Weapon Specialists we support those who have stored tickets and still have a combination of account-bound and non-account-bound items in the chest, as we did before today’s release.

You say it is bad to get the account bound items that you get dups of alot. What about the Miniature Snow Owl (I have 9), Miniature Hawk (I have 7) and the Miniature Raven (I have. They are account bound, can’t even be sold to a vendor, nor used in the Mystic Forge. They are taking up space in inventory in hopes that one day I’ll be able to do something other than delete them. I get at least one of those miniatures out of each set of 25 keys I purchase. Sometimes I get one of each out of that set of 25 keys.

Everything else that is account bound from the chests are usable in multiples one way or another, but these miniatures are not.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

When they did they put everything in the store in the chests? I can and do buy gems for things like glide skins and account upgrades and style kits. But I do not buy keys. I do not support the chests being opened by keys purchased with money do the high chances of not getting anything worthwhile out of it. And the fact that they’ve stuck a skin in there that can only be obtained via openning those chests with a horrendous drop table is deplorable and may affect my desire to buy gems with money in the future. I’m already not going to get those skins even though I have the tickets to get all of the ones I want.

I can still support the game without buying keys, so stop talking like my anger over this and my decision to not buy keys means I will not support the game via gem purchases.

So. You don’t agree with Black Lion Chest Keys being bought with gems in general? But when they are tradable its fine? Because that’s the only thing where this special set is different. That’s almost a double standard. A key will always have to be used. And that key may or may not have been bought.

There’s many ways to get Black Lion keys without buying them. And that you do have enough tickets yourself and refuse to buy these just proves your weird logic. If you can get them then everyone can get them. All players have the same opportunities.

But yes I worded that strangely. I was mostly thinking about people buying keys with gems rather than everyone buying gems. And definitely not specifically you. Since ArenaNet does make money off this system and I can assume it is significant enough to ignore my own support regarding that. So it is in a way important to the game’s development.

Keys aren’t tradeable so not sure where you think that I think it would be fine if keys are tradeable.

If you mean the items inside, it’s a least a means of switching the permanent stylist out for the permanent banker when you already have the permanent stylist. If I get an item that is tradeable that I don’t want, I can trade it in for gold to put towards things I do want instead of having to either delete an item or store it for who knows how long. I’ve got a bank full of boosters because I don’t use boosters often but don’t want to delete for the times I do use them. If I could sell them and then buy them off of others when I do want them, I would.

But other people aren’t as lucky as I am and have opened a LOT more chests than I have and haven’t gotten enough scraps for a single ticket nor received a whole ticket. I’d love to give the ones I’ve got away to people who need them. Some people care a lot more about having the perfect look for their characters’ weapons than I do and this set may be the perfect look for one of their characters. No one is saying that it’s impossible to get the tickets or the scraps. Just that the rate they are earned is so low that it’s absurd to put 13 weapon skins behind them and make them untradeable.

And the rate at which the keys can be earned for free is too low to make that a worthwhile other option. Because of the absurd drop rate of tickets and scraps (you have to get lucky 10 times with scraps to make a ticket). Because when you do fail at getting what you want, you’re more than likely going to get something worthless that you can’t even turn into gold to put towards things you do want. You can’t even sell them to a vendor. They’re worse than vendor trash and junk, imo. I can at least get a few copper or silver out of vendor trash and junk.

Do you have any proof that shows that a majority of players use gems as their primary means to get keys and not the free methods? Because otherwise, you can’t say that the keys help support ANet. Because if they removed the chests and keys and made the other items into other means of acquisition players would still spend time in game playing to get the things they want (be it items or ranks or whatever) – and that’s the only thing that the free methods do, keep players playing.

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Posted by: Amethyst Lure.5624

Amethyst Lure.5624

I’m happy to support games I like (even though I’ve not played too much for a bit now, but maybe the account still shows purchases?) and I really don’t mind it for a game such as this which is based on it and still delivers fair content – most of the time.

However, I will never pay money for something that is a gamble. I do not gamble for goods – perhaps i would have a different outlook if I did not have bills and other things to spend my money on, and I don’t want to fall into the trap of paying to overcome RNG. I hope this sheds some light on why I won’t personally get these skins, unless I can manage to find enough keys through playing the game. To reiterate, not because i don’t want to support A-net. I just don’t support gambling DLC/digital goods.

I suppose that falls beyond the scope of this particular discussion slightly, as it affects all key purchases. But it’s especially annoying to see when real money gambling is made the forefront way to achieve something.

(edited by Amethyst Lure.5624)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

I’m all in favor of ANet shaking up the contents of BL chests and offering us some new bound stuff. I think, however, y’all goofed the implementation and communicated this change poorly.

First, if you want to make fundamental changes that impact skin acquisition (economic or grind), then blog about it. Let us know what your game plan is and approximately when we might see the change. If you want to experiment, great — just let us know that’s your goal, so we can provide appropriate feedback.

Second, there are 143 different ways you could have included an account-bound skin set — why did you choose to do so in a way almost designed to annoy as many players as possible? You want the forum conversation to be about the skins, not about the binding. You want us to be talking about art design, not game design.

Here’s just one simple method using existing mechanics. It would achieve the same reward results, without getting in the way of any existing expectations:

  • Add the new skin as an alternate drop, directly (just like Balthazar, Chaos, and Zodiac drop now).
  • Have the BL Weapon Vendors offer to buy any Privateer Skin back in exchange for one BL ticket.

In this way, no one feels as if they are losing out on the chance of getting a tradeable skin — we’d actually be getting a slightly ‘better’ set of drops for a short period of time. Further, people would be far more likely to feel that we were getting something special (the stated goal, above), whereas this week, it feels like we lost something.

tl;dr I’m not against shaking things up. I am against doing so without helping the players see why it’s good for the game. And I’m very much against implementations which give the impression we’re losing stuff — it should always feel as if we are getting something better.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Omne.4603

Omne.4603

Reading this thread, we understand your questions and want to share a little information: This set is designed to be a special, exclusive set and therefore it’s a little different than most. There are a couple of other interesting factors that you’ll want to know: The set is available for one ticket. It will remain priced at one ticket into the future, so someone who wants it now doesn’t need to be concerned about it becoming unavailable or about it rising in price in the future. Other sets currently available are not account bound, such as the Cavalier Weapon Set which was recently released at a price of 1 Black Lion Claim Ticket and remains at that price now. In addition, we do intend to continue to offer tradeable sets in the future. If you’d like a preview of the new set, go to your bank wardrobe and filter for “Privateer.” We hope this answers your questions, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

-Sarah

Why is the set special? Why would we think it’s anything but you testing the waters on how much you can screw over customer before there’s backlash?

Valid question is valid.

I Cant Stop/ Ocularis
NSP | Os Guild Master
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Posted by: xarallei.4279

xarallei.4279

So, are we going to hear anything more substantive about this issue? Assurances that you won’t do this again?

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

My other issue with this is that no one asked for weapons to be delivered in this fashion. Not a single person from the community wanted this. There are things the community has asked for that you used to offer like like new earnable armor sets or even armor skins coming back to the cash shop.

It’s impossible say with certainty that no one likes this system, but from what I have seen there are quite a few that aren’t happy that it is practically the only way weapon skins get added. The fact that it’s based on RNG instead of direct purchases makes it worse to a lot of us, as well. Anet seems to be completely oblivious to these finer points.

The situation with gemstore armor skins was almost the same. Players seemed more unhappy with the fact that the gemstore was the only place to get new armor skins, not the fact that armor skins were being sold there. Anet’s “solution” of only selling one-piece outfits was born from this failure to understand the issue, combined with the ease of producing outfits compared to mix-and-match-able armor sets. The result is that since they vowed to no longer sell armor skins in the store, we’ve only had somewhere around 6-7 sets of armor added, at least half of which require HoT to obtain.

I understand that armors are considerably more work to make, so they aren’t going to be added as often as outfits. But that’s not really much of an excuse to almost never add them at all. For a game where skins and fashion are the primary end-game, that $50 expansion had an abysmally low number of new skins added with it. And to add further insult to the lack of new armor, the pace of BLC weapons seems like it’s just ramped up since then, proving just how easy it is to add new weapon skins.

Fair points all. Your response is great because it addresses concerns because you read, understood, and responded to what I was saying. The ArenaNet responses in here haven’t done that at all.

ArenaNet, let’s have an actual discourse where both sides say what they want to say honestly to each other. I don’t even feel the person from ArenaNet is even stating the actual reason this stuff was implemented the way it was. Items that are special to the community aren’t special because we have to hope we get one by luck. I could go back to the first person camera reasons that were given at gamescom a while ago. The reason the dev gave wasn’t even close to the reason why people wanted a first person camera. It was actually opposite of what that dev thought. Until we get past these disconnects there isn’t going to be any real communication going on whatsoever. When that happens, one side or the other is going to feel like they aren’t being listened to. I don’t feel listened to because the devs responses to people in here haven’t addressed the things the customers are actually saying.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Krogan Battlemaster.9634

Krogan Battlemaster.9634

I’d like to reply to those who are saying that making this set account-bound is “a money grab.” Please keep in mind that we make the same amount of revenue for each BLC weapon skin that enters the game through MTX regardless of whether or not that weapon skin is later resold on the trading post.

The currency exchange is a player driven market and as the gem-to-gold exchange rate has increased, the trading post value of BLC weapon skins hasn’t kept pace. That leads to the common complaint that it feels bad to buy Black Lion chests for gems, because it seems as if they’re full of things that you could have bought more cheaply by converting your gems to gold instead. It’s not our goal to make you feel like a chump for buying chests. After all, by buying chests, you’re supporting the creation of the content that everyone plays. So it’s nice for there to be account-bound things in the chests in addition to the other tradeable items. With a lot of the chest contents, it’s not possible for them to be account-bound, because for a lot of things you’d be screwed if you got dupes and couldn’t off-load them to friends or onto the Trading Post. By putting the skins on the Black Lion Weapon Specialists we support those who have stored tickets and still have a combination of account-bound and non-account-bound items in the chest, as we did before today’s release.

This set of purely cosmetic skins still can ultimately be acquired either by purchasing them or by earning gold in the game and trading it for gems. If you like getting skins from the chests that can’t be obtained more cheaply through the trading post, use your claim tickets on these weapons. Or if you prefer tradeable skins, use your claim tickets for the other weapon sets, or acquire those weapon sets by trading for them with other players who bought them with claim tickets.

We on the dev team want to thank you again for taking the time to share your views with us.

This is complete and total bullcrap. The Black Lion sets are community driven. Their prices, demand, supply, etc. is ENTIRELY community driven. So saying that players feel they aren’t worth it when they drop, then that’s on the community for selling them so cheap and/or having no interest in them and dumping them off. If you realeased Black Lion sets that didn’t SUCK, like Balthazar or Chaos, or Fused again, you would see the price per skin would be a LOT higher than what they have been recently. Until you decide to rerelease those in Black Lion chests as another money grab attempt. So to pretend this is anything except a money grab is a total and blatant lie.

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Posted by: Fornax.7928

Fornax.7928

Not a good idea to penny pinch from you player base.

“So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by
entropy. I’m spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I’m going
to brush its teeth. So there.”-

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Posted by: Siobhan.5273

Siobhan.5273

Reading this thread, we understand your questions and want to share a little information: This set is designed to be a special, exclusive set and therefore it’s a little different than most. There are a couple of other interesting factors that you’ll want to know: The set is available for one ticket. It will remain priced at one ticket into the future, so someone who wants it now doesn’t need to be concerned about it becoming unavailable or about it rising in price in the future. Other sets currently available are not account bound, such as the Cavalier Weapon Set which was recently released at a price of 1 Black Lion Claim Ticket and remains at that price now. In addition, we do intend to continue to offer tradeable sets in the future. If you’d like a preview of the new set, go to your bank wardrobe and filter for “Privateer.” We hope this answers your questions, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

-Sarah

Why is the set special? Why would we think it’s anything but you testing the waters on how much you can screw over customer before there’s backlash?

Valid question is valid.

We know this, but obviously they’re hoping we cry it out and then let it slide, because contrary to what has been said about asking questions straight up and getting answers, that ain’t happening, and it’s not just in regards to this issue. Hope those profits are just rolling in and it’s all worth it for them in the end!

No news since October 28th 2014. Question asked straight up! 473 times. 647 days and thread locked..

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Posted by: Grymlocke.1067

Grymlocke.1067

Yo DEVS

are we getting fused weapon skins back or not…………….. all other kittenty ones you have placed at 1/2/3 tickets but never do i see these skins coming back … granted i am only a < 2 year player but common…… get the decent skins back … not the rubbish ones

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

The official answer notes that the prices of Black Lion weapon skins are falling which makes the keys less worthwhile. But imo it fails to draw the right conclusion.

So my opinion as to why the prices are falling.

First reason. It’s simple. Supply and demand. ANet is flooding the market with more and more Black Lion skins. Everytime we turn around now they’ve got another new set out. ANet can’t keep pushing out new skins in the gems store and expect that they won’t go down in price. Market saturation is being reached and buying is slowing down.

Second reason. The expansion had too few new skins and the ones they had were either not particularly desirable or are too specialized in appearance to use on more than a few looks. In addition, they put out one set (reclaimed) in the HoT and put out a competing set (improvised) in the BLC where the BLC set was arguably better designed with more thought behind them than the reclaimed. This second reason is a problem as too few expansion skins competing with a multitude of BLC skins is a turnoff to your players. There are a number of players who are angry that they paid $50-100 for an abbreviated set of new skins and now feel like they are expected to pay more for gemstore skins.

3rd reason. ANet deliberately steps on the prices of older BLC skins by re-releasing skins while supply is still high and prices are still low. (The Crimson Weapons are a good example of this. Prices had barely started to rise on that one when they were re-released and the prices crashed again). Why should anyone get BLC skins to invest for future higher prices when any price gains can be wiped out at a moments notice by a re-release? At this point I no longer get any of these skins as an investment. I only buy for personal, immediate use. Which means I buy a lot less BLC skins than I used to.

tl:dr
My opinion as to why the prices of skins have gone down.
1) oversupply from the numerous new sets of weapons.
2) rereleasing old sets too soon, which drive down prices.
3) less buying by investors because they can’t recoup expenses, much less make a profit.
4) anger that the expansion we paid for got the short end of the cosmetic stick while more and more new BLC chest skins get pumped out.

And don’t even get me started on the Legendary weapons skins we paid for that were cancelled “indefinitely” yet all these new BLC skins/gliders/outfits keep showing up each month.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: DeanBB.4268

DeanBB.4268

Just a flesh wound.3589

- – - snip – - -

I used to sell the skins and made some decent coin, but got to the point where ( a ) I didn’t really need the gold anymore, ( b ) the prices started dropping, and ( c ) I decided to hang onto tickets for skins for my own use.

I still have 2 tickets waiting for just the right weapons. As such, it no longer matters to me that these are not tradable.

(edited by DeanBB.4268)

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Posted by: Aenaos.8160

Aenaos.8160

Chests are RNG gambling items,and their only purpose is to generate income for Anet.
Allowing the skins to be tradeable,made them desirable for some players that maybe didn’t want to use the skin,but wanted to sell them in the TP and earn gold.
If the price of these skins in the TP is not enough to justify the gem purchase of the keys,then immediately you have a large portion of the potential client base losing interest and stop spending gems on them,so other ways need to be introduced to make these items perform the way they are expected to perform for the money making process of GW2.
And in this case,since the players that bought them as a means to make gold are not interested in them,this means giving the players that are interested about the skins a reason to purchase keys for gems.

If you don’t want to spend money on these,keys still drop in game,if you do a lot of map completion and personal story on alts,casually not farming,you should have enough keys for a weapon per year,and you can always convert gold to gems and buy keys like that,although I don’t see why anyone would spend all that gold on a cosmetic item that is in no way connected with achieving anything in game.

-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-

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Posted by: Eidolonemesis.5640

Eidolonemesis.5640

Chests are RNG gambling items,and their only purpose is to generate income for Anet.

Allowing the skins to be tradeable, made them desirable for some players that maybe didn’t want to use the skin, but wanted to sell them in the TP and earn gold.
If the price of these skins in the TP is not enough to justify the gem purchase of the keys,then immediately you have a large portion of the potential client base losing interest and stop spending gems on them, so other ways need to be introduced to make these items perform the way they are expected to perform for the money making process of GW2.

And in this case, since the players that bought them as a means to make gold are not interested in them, this means giving the players that are interested about the skins a reason to purchase keys for gems.

If you don’t want to spend money on these, keys still drop in game, if you do a lot of map completion and personal story on alts, casually not farming, you should have enough keys for a weapon per year, and you can always convert gold to gems and buy keys like that, although I don’t see why anyone would spend all that gold on a cosmetic item that is in no way connected with achieving anything in game.

The problem here is simple… The BL Skins (more so than not) are not desirable because they generally look drab and boring, at least, the BL Skins that have been released in the past year with very few exceptions. In case you have not been reading, that point has been reiterated numerous times in this thread, something Anet should considering reflecting on.

The idea is to make the BL Skins look so good, not only TP flippers will want to buy one for themselves with a BL Key they had to purchase with Gems to obtain a BL Ticket (or however they go about paying for one), but everyone else who is not a TP flipper will want one for themselves, too, with a BL Key they had to purchase with Gems to obtain a BL Ticket (or however they go about paying for one).

This is not brain surgery here. You know why old BL Skins still hold their value to this day as they did then when they were released? They look great! And in case you would like to know, Anet, your old BL Skins looked so great, I have went to the Gem Store several times myself just to buy Gems (with real-world money) to convert to Gold just so I could own them, because yes, I do not feel like farming oodles of Gold for aesthetics items. There is enough other grindy content in the game as it is.

My question is, what went wrong since back then up to now?

You know, I didn’t quite think it was possible for some of your best design guys on the team to lose their touch, Anet, but it seems that is what’s happening. The old magic has simply been lost with BL Skins, and that is why they are plummeting and causing much disinterest.

Why is this so hard to figure out? There are 6 pages of comments here virtually saying the same thing(s) to reflect on. Please fix the source of the real problem if you want what you’re trying to sell players to be more desirable.

(edited by Eidolonemesis.5640)

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

Now that ^ is highly subjective. There have been a few sets I really liked recently, and this current set that I can only get by my own tickets? That, sir/madam, is the first set where I literally want every single skin.

Ok, the axe is a little boring.

To me.

But all the rest of them? I’m drooling! So the only saving grace at all for me is that they will always be just one ticket. I have a chance to collect them over time. Any time a set comes out that I don’t really care for, my extant tickets can go to Privateer.

Unless “always one ticket” means “always one ticket for as long as we feel like giving the set tab space which will be, oh, two months or so.” You think you’ve seen pitchforks so far ANet? The legendary pitchforks will come out if you yank this set.

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Posted by: Basaltface.2786

Basaltface.2786

they should do their “special ticket skin” bs with skins people want since ages… such as fused skins and stuff and not with simple (but totally good looking and i love em to death) skins like the privateer ones. But what do i know.. im just a gullible clown who actually bought gems till i got enough scraps together to buy me 5 of them. But seriosly.. screw you a-net. Wouldnt have done it if it wouldnt be a decent looking and not overkill pretentious set. Heck even the sizes are alright this time… and no shortsword daggers or anime claymores

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Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

The problem here is simple… The BL Skins (more so than not) are not desirable because they generally look drab and boring, at least, the BL Skins that have been released in the past year with very few exceptions. In case you have not been reading, that point has been reiterated numerous times in this thread, something Anet should considering reflecting on.
[SNIP]

Sorry, but this is not fact, it is opinion. I think some of them are amazing and some of them suck. It is a matter of personal taste.

As I said before, I am not for this account bound direction, but for me it has nothing to do whatsoever about the appearance of the skins.

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Posted by: Dante.1508

Dante.1508

Maybe this what they meant by learning from their mistakes?

Maybe gems sales really are dying.. who knows or cares at this point.

Me personally i haven’t seen a set that was worth getting in a long time, i see the odd one or two items that look “ok” but actual weapon skins set thats on a wow factor scale… nope..

Which means no reason to buy anything no matter what they do with BL chests..

I know this might not go over well but we need new artists to do that content..

What i’d purchase “high Fantasy skins with exceptional glows and effects” not what we currently see, sorry..

(edited by Dante.1508)

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Posted by: mrauls.6519

mrauls.6519

There is nothing special about this set

Mes (Guardian)
I make PvP & WvW videos

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

There is nothing special about this set

That’s not true.

Evon Gnashblade thinks it is, thus he displays several pieces at once in his company, isntead of only one like with the others.

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

they should do their “special ticket skin” bs with skins people want since ages… such as fused skins and stuff and not with simple (but totally good looking and i love em to death) skins like the privateer ones. But what do i know.. im just a gullible clown who actually bought gems till i got enough scraps together to buy me 5 of them. But seriously.. screw you a-net. Wouldn’t have done it if it wouldn’t be a decent looking and not overkill pretentious set. Heck even the sizes are alright this time… and no shortsword daggers or anime claymores

Sometimes less is more but I really want longer dagger skins. Most daggers really don’t look that great and some are outright too dull or short. I really like the Kingmaker though, looks like it has a good weight to it.

As far as pistols go these look like the best ones so far. Privateer and Dandybluster seem to go well together though I don’t typically run double pistols.

Also the claymores are from ascended crafting or ascended weapon chests and wouldn’t be in a BLC.

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Posted by: ThatDamnRat.1236

ThatDamnRat.1236

I’d like to reply to those who are saying that making this set account-bound is “a money grab.” Please keep in mind that we make the same amount of revenue for each BLC weapon skin that enters the game through MTX regardless of whether or not that weapon skin is later resold on the trading post.

The currency exchange is a player driven market and as the gem-to-gold exchange rate has increased, the trading post value of BLC weapon skins hasn’t kept pace. That leads to the common complaint that it feels bad to buy Black Lion chests for gems, because it seems as if they’re full of things that you could have bought more cheaply by converting your gems to gold instead. It’s not our goal to make you feel like a chump for buying chests. After all, by buying chests, you’re supporting the creation of the content that everyone plays. So it’s nice for there to be account-bound things in the chests in addition to the other tradeable items. With a lot of the chest contents, it’s not possible for them to be account-bound, because for a lot of things you’d be screwed if you got dupes and couldn’t off-load them to friends or onto the Trading Post. By putting the skins on the Black Lion Weapon Specialists we support those who have stored tickets and still have a combination of account-bound and non-account-bound items in the chest, as we did before today’s release.

This set of purely cosmetic skins still can ultimately be acquired either by purchasing them or by earning gold in the game and trading it for gems. If you like getting skins from the chests that can’t be obtained more cheaply through the trading post, use your claim tickets on these weapons. Or if you prefer tradeable skins, use your claim tickets for the other weapon sets, or acquire those weapon sets by trading for them with other players who bought them with claim tickets.

We on the dev team want to thank you again for taking the time to share your views with us.

By what sort of insane eldritch logic does making one of the (barely) possible rewards less useful and flexible increase the value of a chest? People feel like chumps for buying keys because they are chumps, it’s almost never worth it because they are filled with worthless crap.
Your entire argument make no sense and your first statement is clearly misleading. Yes you get the same return whether a skin is used or sold, but if a skin can’t be sold then the person who would normally buy with gold is forced to open their wallet if they wish to gain the skin. By the same token the person who speculates on chests in hope of landing high values skins to sell is out an opportunity and is thus left feeling LESS rewarded than normal by opening chests, a thing I didn’t even think was possible.

Your response is insulting to both my intelligence and sensibilities and I hope you feel ashamed.

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Posted by: ThatDamnRat.1236

ThatDamnRat.1236

There is nothing special about this set

That’s not true.

Evon Gnashblade thinks it is, thus he displays several pieces at once in his company, isntead of only one like with the others.

Evon Gnahblade is an untrustworthy scoundrel, take his opinion with a grain of salt. The only thing special I can see about this set is that they aren’t garishly over-designed for once.

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Posted by: Null Shock.3745

Null Shock.3745

GW2 is buy to play, not pay to play(This is obvious.) They make their money from the Gem Store, and they are a business their goal is to make money. They may need money to hire knew help for other features everyone wants. It also seems like a lot of players, who say they have never or only ever bought a few keys, demanding this to change. Most of us have been playing free for years, we got our moneys worth. Anything you spend after that is on you.

While I think that Anet should keep an open dialogue, they do not need to ask the community to change anything, and they can change stuff without the community wanted. And, Anet does occasionally hook the player base up with something if their screw up is such a nightmare.

Now do I not like the idea to have Minis or Weapon Skins being account bound, but I don’t run Anet. Best thing is to remain civil, stop demanding, stop the "I am never playing or doing X anymore. Just say what bugs you with out hulking out on the forums.

Also, again, they are a business, and the point of a business is to make money.

Null

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Posted by: Jaken.6801

Jaken.6801

GW2 is buy to play, not pay to play(This is obvious.) They make their money from the Gem Store, and they are a business their goal is to make money. They may need money to hire knew help for other features everyone wants. It also seems like a lot of players, who say they have never or only ever bought a few keys, demanding this to change. Most of us have been playing free for years, we got our moneys worth. Anything you spend after that is on you.

While I think that Anet should keep an open dialogue, they do not need to ask the community to change anything, and they can change stuff without the community wanted. And, Anet does occasionally hook the player base up with something if their screw up is such a nightmare.

Now do I not like the idea to have Minis or Weapon Skins being account bound, but I don’t run Anet. Best thing is to remain civil, stop demanding, stop the "I am never playing or doing X anymore. Just say what bugs you with out hulking out on the forums.

Also, again, they are a business, and the point of a business is to make money.

I think that is very clear.

Thing is more around the fact that one reason people are reluctant to buy keys is the RNG that comes with them.
You won’t get your moneys worth most of the time.

The normal system lessened that burden, simply by offering an alternative.
It wasn’t perfect, but it offered at least another way to aquire said items, wothout the danger of bad luck.
I mean, it is much more reassuring to convert gems to gold and then buy from the TP for a guaranted success, instead of gambling away a lot, with a high chance of getting nothing.

The new “special” system does only cater to people who are willing to jump through their hoops, buys keys and or get them through other ways.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

You won’t get your moneys worth most of the time.

Just as in case of casino games, averages are against you too. As long as you keep playing, the house always wins in the end.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

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Posted by: Sariel V.7024

Sariel V.7024

It’s not our goal to make you feel like a chump for buying chests.

Of course not, that’s the goal of other players. The BLTC sells KEYS. ;D

Kidding aside, I still have no desire to buy these weapons.

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Posted by: rabidsmiles.5926

rabidsmiles.5926

Sorry if this was previously mentioned but this thread is long and sort of old but had they been smart…they would have made these only cost 1 scrap, rather than a whole ticket. Rather than the few who spend a lot, they would have gotten more of the non spenders to buy the kitten things. Since they can’t be traded, why price them at a whole ticket? Don’t get greedy Anet, your community obviously is watching your cash grabs and are getting tired of them.

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Posted by: Sariel V.7024

Sariel V.7024

redacted. look above if you want the gory details

Except it’s the people who just want to enjoy these skins themselves who are getting a raw deal here.

For people who just want to make a profit on black lion keys absolutely nothing has changed, they just exchange any tickets they happen to get for a skin from another set and carry on as before. It’s the people who actually like the skins and want to be able to use them who are stuck having to keep paying out and hoping they get lucky because they have no guaranteed way to get them.

For the record I don’t actually want any of the skins myself either. But I’ve been in the exact same situation with different items so I know how horrible it feels, and how much worse it feels when people who can’t even understand what the problem is try to tell you that you’re over reacting.

Well Dani, you may be happy to hear I got infracted for that one. ;D

You’re right, the ones who actually want to use the skins are the ones that are more likely to be edged out of the market. Maybe I should be more concerned about them, but they’re not the ones I see complaining the loudest. For a long time, these weapon skins have been trumpeted as investment stock, something to be horded and fobbed off on the desperate at exorbitant prices. Any wrinkle in the economy that ripples into that brings a lot of wailing from the whales. Any more of this and I’m going to devolve into a full-on rant and get infracted again. ;D

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Posted by: Sariel V.7024

Sariel V.7024

Math - BLTC ticket rate: 5%
Tickets 	Chests 	Gems 	$
  1 	            20 	1,800 	$ 22.50
  9 	          180 	15,120 	$ 189.00
16 	          320 	26,880 	$ 336.00

WELL DONE, ANET!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4o279r/is_it_really_okay_for_bl_weapon_skins_to_be/d48yu0c

only 6000g for exchange …..

This is a great method to deteriorate the exchange of gold in gems….

This is pretty close to what it would cost to get a full set of Immortal skins, so, A+ for consistency.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

This might have been a response due to too many skins being hoarded by too few people to keep the TP price high. That’s probably not what ANet was going for when they made the skins tradable.

So lets see about a skin that will always be 1 ticket but not tradeable does. Other than the warhorn and the HP wand scepter, and maybe the wood inlay shield, the set is meh for me.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Forum bug, she’s on it.

Attachments:

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Tringsh.2380

Tringsh.2380

I haven’t seen a subject on this so I thought I would post one. I’m really disappointed that Anet has taken the decision to make the Privateer Weapon Skins account bound. I love buying new skins off of the TP and I’m sure a lot of people use them for revenue. Locking them down so you have to grind out keys feels so anti-community.

If your Black Lion sales are down then you probably need to make better items and skins to encourage people to start buying again.