Guild Wars 2

Belorn.2659:

What they really need is to normalize the starting values. Critical Chance starts at 5% while condition duration starts at 0%. That is 105 “free” attribute points to power builds.

Crit-Chance starts at 4%, if I´m not mistaken.

Belorn.2659:

What they really need is to normalize the starting values. Critical Chance starts at 5% while condition duration starts at 0%. That is 105 “free” attribute points to power builds.

If you really want to normalise all that stuff, there’s a lot more to do. I doubt the results would justify all the work that would have to be put into such a thing.

trailofsalt.6571:

Thanks for the informative reply! I think it’s great if the desire is to give power reaper a boost.

They have tried to give the power reaper a boost since HoT launched. All they managed to do was to make GS a meta weapon for condi builds.

Don’t expect power builds to have anything close dps-wise to the good old condi builds. What’s likely to happen is just nerfing necro condi into the ground, making the (mostly useless) power builds the only option.

In general, i can agree that condi vs power needed balancing (not sure why this must somehow always mean that power ends up on top however). I can agree that some consistency for food and utility consumables was necessary. I don’t see the need for an overall dps nerf to all classes and builds however.

And yet i doubt that the food nerfs will be accompanied by buffing up traitlines and skills accordingly.

Astralporing.1957:

Don’t expect power builds to have anything close dps-wise to the good old condi builds. What’s likely to happen is just nerfing necro condi into the ground, making the (mostly useless) power builds the only option.

Power Engineers would like a word.

OriOri.8724:

B – This change will help enforce needing teh stats. Now you actually have to build for condition duration if you want it, instead of having stupidly easy ways to hit 100% duration and then going tanky and just kiting while you outlasted their cleanses. This is literally what this change is implementing, so how can you be upset over it?

You do realize that “stupidly easy way to get 100% condi duration” required getting a condi duration gear and traits, right? And that it wasn’t even possible at all for some of the condi classes?

Kusumura.8642:

Astralporing.1957:

Don’t expect power builds to have anything close dps-wise to the good old condi builds. What’s likely to happen is just nerfing necro condi into the ground, making the (mostly useless) power builds the only option.

Power Engineers would like a word.

As far as i know, power engi is not a necro build, is it?

Belorn.2659:

What they really need is to normalize the starting values. Critical Chance starts at 5% while condition duration starts at 0%. That is 105 “free” attribute points to power builds.

Fair enough, as long as they add another stat that condition builds need to invest in to gain max benefit. Like halve all the durations and then let condition damage crit so you need to invest in ferocity as well.

Astralporing.1957:

OriOri.8724:

B – This change will help enforce needing teh stats. Now you actually have to build for condition duration if you want it, instead of having stupidly easy ways to hit 100% duration and then going tanky and just kiting while you outlasted their cleanses. This is literally what this change is implementing, so how can you be upset over it?

You do realize that “stupidly easy way to get 100% condi duration” required getting a condi duration gear and traits, right? And that it wasn’t even possible at all for some of the condi classes?

Kusumura.8642:

Astralporing.1957:

Don’t expect power builds to have anything close dps-wise to the good old condi builds. What’s likely to happen is just nerfing necro condi into the ground, making the (mostly useless) power builds the only option.

Power Engineers would like a word.

As far as i know, power engi is not a necro build, is it?

But if you want to talk about Power builds that’re useless, you can do no worse than Power Engineer.

5 years running, worst Power-build DPS in the game.

Kusumura.8642:

But if you want to talk about Power builds that’re useless, you can do no worse than Power Engineer.

5 years running, worst Power-build DPS in the game.

That’s not what i’m reading here

And don’t look for power reaper, it’s not in the list…

Astralporing.1957:

OriOri.8724:

B – This change will help enforce needing teh stats. Now you actually have to build for condition duration if you want it, instead of having stupidly easy ways to hit 100% duration and then going tanky and just kiting while you outlasted their cleanses. This is literally what this change is implementing, so how can you be upset over it?

You do realize that “stupidly easy way to get 100% condi duration” required getting a condi duration gear and traits, right? And that it wasn’t even possible at all for some of the condi classes?

Kusumura.8642:

Astralporing.1957:

Don’t expect power builds to have anything close dps-wise to the good old condi builds. What’s likely to happen is just nerfing necro condi into the ground, making the (mostly useless) power builds the only option.

Power Engineers would like a word.

As far as i know, power engi is not a necro build, is it?

Did you read the rest of the thread? Someone linked to a WP stream where he showed they were working on putting power reaper back in action (since, you know, that’s what Reaper was meant to be in its original design and all)

Conditions are way OP and broken. Honestly, I am not surprised if they nerf it. It’s way overdue and the game needs to add incentive to other builds. And it’s not like it costs a whole lot to change the stats on your ascended gear; just enough to make an exotic insignia, a couple of ectos and replace the runes/inscriptions if you don’t have an extraction tool.

talysalankil.1279:

Did you read the rest of the thread? Someone linked to a WP stream where he showed they were working on putting power reaper back in action (since, you know, that’s what Reaper was meant to be in its original design and all)

Sure i heard that. I also heard that when they buffed reaper gs the last time. And the one before. And we both know how that ended.

all i can say to the condi meta is die! die! die! my darlin,

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Fair enough, as long as they add another stat that condition builds need to invest in to gain max benefit. Like halve all the durations and then let condition damage crit so you need to invest in ferocity as well.

In all seriousness, this would be a good fix:

• Condition Damage removed.
• Condition Duration removed.
• Conditions now scale from Power.
• Conditions can now critically hit.
• Critical Hits are calculated per tick, and will use your Precision and Ferocity values.

This has two big upsides: For one, it puts the balancing game in the hands of scaling numbers alone, making it easy to balance DoT vs DD on each specific class.

Second, as they now both scale the same way, and the only big difference is DPS vs DPCT focus (and ofc cleansing vs toughness), classes can be designed to inherently work “more with DoTs” or “more with DDs”. As a function of class theme.

so i just got my full viper set for raids.. rip

Carighan.6758:

In all seriousness, this would be a good fix:

• Condition Damage removed.
• Condition Duration removed.
• Conditions now scale from Power.
• Conditions can now critically hit.
• Critical Hits are calculated per tick, and will use your Precision and Ferocity values.

This has two big upsides: For one, it puts the balancing game in the hands of scaling numbers alone, making it easy to balance DoT vs DD on each specific class.

Second, as they now both scale the same way, and the only big difference is DPS vs DPCT focus (and ofc cleansing vs toughness), classes can be designed to inherently work “more with DoTs” or “more with DDs”. As a function of class theme.

Wouldn’t that just make hybrid skills stronger than pure condition ones.

lmaogg.7325:

Wouldn’t that just make hybrid skills stronger than pure condition ones.

If skills weren’t changed, yeah. But it’d be much easier to balance going forward because both parts scale of the very same stats.

So you could have 3 skills like this:

• 1000 damage, direct.
• 500 damage direct, 700 damage over 6 seconds. Higher damage per use, lower DPS since it needs 6 seconds to deal over half its damage.
• 1400 damage over 6 seconds. Highest damage per use, lowest DPS.

Carighan.6758:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Fair enough, as long as they add another stat that condition builds need to invest in to gain max benefit. Like halve all the durations and then let condition damage crit so you need to invest in ferocity as well.

In all seriousness, this would be a good fix:

• Condition Damage removed.
• Condition Duration removed.
• Conditions now scale from Power.
• Conditions can now critically hit.
• Critical Hits are calculated per tick, and will use your Precision and Ferocity values.

This has two big upsides: For one, it puts the balancing game in the hands of scaling numbers alone, making it easy to balance DoT vs DD on each specific class.

Second, as they now both scale the same way, and the only big difference is DPS vs DPCT focus (and ofc cleansing vs toughness), classes can be designed to inherently work “more with DoTs” or “more with DDs”. As a function of class theme.

There’s one big problem with this. It makes zerk the only choice for any damage dealer, ever. Zero variance, ever. So no, it would not be a good fix. The condi/power split is good, because it creates choices. Yes, there are “choices” in the game where you can trade offensive attributes for defensive ones, but we all know they are irrelevant in PvE and virtually nobody picks these.

I’m glad foods and utilities are being normalised in this way. Hopefully might make things easier to balance in the future.

Feanor.2358:

There’s one big problem with this. It makes zerk the only choice for any damage dealer, ever. Zero variance, ever. So no, it would not be a good fix. The condi/power split is good, because it creates choices. Yes, there are “choices” in the game where you can trade offensive attributes for defensive ones, but we all know they are irrelevant in PvE and virtually nobody picks these.

But then, how does condi vs power create an actual choice. You are essentially changing the formatting of the numbers above the enemies’ head because either way you’re speccing for DPS.

If anything, if removal of the distinction breaks the ability to have meaningful choices in PvE, then that just hints at a bigger underlying problem in regards to PvE choices, or rather how things seemingly being player-choices are in fact inconsequential. If we all spec for maximum output, why have Viper and Zerker gear? It’s the same as just having Zerker gear in the end, doesn’t really change that.

And in fact I posted about this before, we have too many knobs. If your gear is ideally the optimal gear for your spec / skills, why have it as a separate component, basically?

Sorry, going off on a tangent, I know

I’m glad food gets nerfed. It just doesnt feel right to me that I have to spend so much gold on non-equipment to maximise my dps.

Carighan.6758:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Fair enough, as long as they add another stat that condition builds need to invest in to gain max benefit. Like halve all the durations and then let condition damage crit so you need to invest in ferocity as well.

In all seriousness, this would be a good fix:

• Condition Damage removed.
• Condition Duration removed.
• Conditions now scale from Power.
• Conditions can now critically hit.
• Critical Hits are calculated per tick, and will use your Precision and Ferocity values.

This has two big upsides: For one, it puts the balancing game in the hands of scaling numbers alone, making it easy to balance DoT vs DD on each specific class.

Second, as they now both scale the same way, and the only big difference is DPS vs DPCT focus (and ofc cleansing vs toughness), classes can be designed to inherently work “more with DoTs” or “more with DDs”. As a function of class theme.

That’s straight powercreep though. Now you could focus purely on a power build and still be dealing huge damage with your conditions. Is that what you really want instead of making people choose between power and condition (even though some stat sets are fairly decent at both)?

Carighan.6758:

Feanor.2358:

There’s one big problem with this. It makes zerk the only choice for any damage dealer, ever. Zero variance, ever. So no, it would not be a good fix. The condi/power split is good, because it creates choices. Yes, there are “choices” in the game where you can trade offensive attributes for defensive ones, but we all know they are irrelevant in PvE and virtually nobody picks these.

But then, how does condi vs power create an actual choice. You are essentially changing the formatting of the numbers above the enemies’ head because either way you’re speccing for DPS.

Because one of them is going to be better for your class and you choose your gear with that regard.

Carighan.6758:

If anything, if removal of the distinction breaks the ability to have meaningful choices in PvE, then that just hints at a bigger underlying problem in regards to PvE choices, or rather how things seemingly being player-choices are in fact inconsequential. If we all spec for maximum output, why have Viper and Zerker gear? It’s the same as just having Zerker gear in the end, doesn’t really change that.

Games are like that. In the end it doesn’t really matter much what choices you have or make. What matters, however, it the player perception. Having a choice – illusionary as it might be – making it and being happy with the results are what matters. Of course, you can go way overboard in that respect, too. Older RPGs had many different types of damage (Titan Quest, for instance, had physical, several elemental types and piercing). Having this many can be a detriment at some point, as you could end up with a build which simply doesn’t work against specific enemies. GW2 has this toned down to an acceptable degree while still giving some choice. I should probably mention there’s more to it than “zerk vs viper”, too, depending on the use case. For instance, if you’re building a character which you intend to play mostly solo, you could consider sacrificing some stats for the sake of better boon coverage. “Zerk vs viper” is only choice in the endgame, where the boons are provided by designated roles in the party.

and here goes my crit spamming from knight’s-marauders combo

farewell maintenance oils, it was nice to know ye….

[srsly tho none of these new utilities gives a buff to precision anymore…]

I just cannot understand why they needed to touch Shroud. It’s the sole thing that allows a power necro to survive long enough to kill most things. Maybe not everyone wants to play a kitten ed condi necro! Why do you constantly nerf this class, it isn’t a threat in any area of the game so what is it that just pushes you guys to dump on it all the time.
I just spent months gearing him up in ascended and a legendary to the point he was a decent character to play and this happens, i almost regret buying two expansions, and seriously thinking of walking away for a while. You just destroyed the one character i enjoy playing in game, thanks for that! OH BTW giving health to someone wearing Valkyrie is a colossal waste of time, thanks for nothing, truly!

Vlad Morbius.1759:

I just cannot understand why they needed to touch Shroud. It’s the sole thing that allows a power necro to survive long enough to kill most things. Maybe not everyone wants to play a kitten ed condi necro! Why do you constantly nerf this class, it isn’t a threat in any area of the game so what is it that just pushes you guys to dump on it all the time.
I just spent months gearing him up in ascended and a legendary to the point he was a decent character to play and this happens, i almost regret buying two expansions, and seriously thinking of walking away for a while. You just destroyed the one character i enjoy playing in game, thanks for that! OH BTW giving health to someone wearing Valkyrie is a colossal waste of time, thanks for nothing, truly!

Agreed! It’s the main mechanic of Reaper and where a good majority of the Power Reaper dps and survivability comes from. Even the trait that reduced the cool-down on the shroud itself was changed completely and is no longer valid.

Yesterday, I ran around Verdant and Auric doing Hero points with a friend. I was able to keep my Reaper in his shroud for a decent amount of time and pump out enough dps for us to handle a good majority of the hero points.

Today, I’m running around with the same friend (she’s on a different toon now) doing the same hero points and I’m struggling to keep my Reaper in his shroud for any amount of time.

I don’t even want to imagine what kind of repercussion this is going to have if I step into pvp again.

tldr; I hate this absurd shroud nerf. pls fix.
Regards, a Reaper main.

Umbramare.9156:

Anet found a bug where players played other classes than power tempest.

This change will fix that.

bump!

I spent gold in food and utility which i could have spared . But it´s realy good that boon and condi duration from food is put down. It should be more in the build/gear..
And i don´t regret using viper…. It actually makes more sense now. Well i am a bit sad that my prickley pear pie is not so shiny annymore …

Scribing writs should be looked at too.
Probably best fix would be to raise the recipe output to 5 for the top tier writ would be reasonable. Still expensive, but not so prohibitively high that no one outside of record setting is going to even consider them.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_Masterful_Strength

I have been sick, so sorry for being late to the party.

========

It seems the food changes were driven more by raiding people than by any other mode. Bad idea to hinge food or anything else in relation to raiding. Totally different dynamic than WvW or PvE.

Destroying food for one group doesn’t mean you have to destroy it for all.

Precision was meant as a secondary not a tertiary stat.

Food being nerfed in WvW makes overwhelming numbers all that much harder to deal with and I will bet dollars to donuts that it’s showing in ppk as well.