Guild Wars 2

Fenryr.1427:

The expansion is just adding ONE zone.

No, they’re adding one new REGION. The region will have multiple “maps”.

Ashen.2907:

Astralporing.1957:

]Again, the problem is, that as currently stated by Colin, old roads will no longer be maintained at all.

Colin is stating that pre-expansion GW2 will be allowed to degrade and fall apart until it can no longer be used or played ? That is what not maintaining it would mean. There is a rather large difference between not expanding upon, “the old road,” and not maintaining it.

If the vanilla content will stop getting the occasional changes and living story, then yes, it will result in (for al practical reasons) a degradation of content. It will become dead (because stagnation in MMORPG is death).

Astralporing.1957:

Ashen.2907:

Astralporing.1957:

]Again, the problem is, that as currently stated by Colin, old roads will no longer be maintained at all.

Colin is stating that pre-expansion GW2 will be allowed to degrade and fall apart until it can no longer be used or played ? That is what not maintaining it would mean. There is a rather large difference between not expanding upon, “the old road,” and not maintaining it.

If the vanilla content will stop getting the occasional changes and living story, then yes, it will result in (for al practical reasons) a degradation of content. It will become dead (because stagnation in MMORPG is death).

based on

Khisanth.2948:

tim.1280:

I believe it was mentioned that they would be adding “adventures” and reworking heart quests to be “repeatable” in the vanilla world.

This is mentioned in the Angry Joe interview ( don’t have a link).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG5oUKqbIVM

Also leaderboards apparently(and before anyone brings up fractals it makes more sense here than what they mentioned for fractals).

what you say will not happen

Locking the Living World behind future expansions is a mistake.

If HoTs main content were delivered as a standalone Personal Story rather than the LW then LW could continue to provide side content to both Vanilla and HoT and then bridging lore from HoT to whatever comes next.

GameVeight.2745:

Locking the Living World behind future expansions is a mistake.

If HoTs main content were delivered as a standalone Personal Story rather than the LW then LW could continue to provide side content to both Vanilla and HoT and then bridging lore from HoT to whatever comes next.

And if Mordremoth is defeated in HoT? Then what? How do they bridge LS episodes for both when each has a significantly different timeline and story progression? That would be very difficult in my opinion, when it would be much simpler to lock LS to HoT.

That doesn’t mean LS story will not return to vanilla areas, it just means non-HoT players will not understand the story of the events happening around them. Look at it this way: If your character did not go off to Maguuma to fight Mordy, you will not know what happened. Or if your character went far away and became a hermit for a while, when he came back to see ice minions running around LA you would not know why.

All you are really missing out on, by not buying HoT, is the lore and the ongoing personal story. The world will contiinue to move on around you, even if you do not move on with it. If you want to stay up to date with the story, buy the expansion. If you do not want to pay for content, expect to miss sections of the ongoing story of Tyria.

I don’t see what all the fuss is about. They already abandoned the idea of large, short-term changes to an existing area with LS1. The strategy for open-world content in LS2 has been all about adding new things, not making changes to old ones. I think the only changes to existing maps in LS2 have been: a tiny area and a couple of events added to Brisban Wildlands, and 3 or 4 events added to Iron Marches. Everything else has been in Dry Top and Silverwastes.

Olvendred.3027:

I don’t see what all the fuss is about. They already abandoned the idea of large, short-term changes to an existing area with LS1. The strategy for open-world content in LS2 has been all about adding new things, not making changes to old ones. I think the only changes to existing maps in LS2 have been: a tiny area and a couple of events added to Brisban Wildlands, and 3 or 4 events added to Iron Marches. Everything else has been in Dry Top and Silverwastes.

There are also still some changes in Timberline Falls .. but thats it.

LS1 for me was really “living” world .. LS2 is just another personal story .. it doesn’t
feel at all like a living world but just like some instanced stuff that plays in an
alternate universe.

But hey .. it seems i am very alone here with preferring LS1 over LS2.

Beldin.5498:

Olvendred.3027:

I don’t see what all the fuss is about. They already abandoned the idea of large, short-term changes to an existing area with LS1. The strategy for open-world content in LS2 has been all about adding new things, not making changes to old ones. I think the only changes to existing maps in LS2 have been: a tiny area and a couple of events added to Brisban Wildlands, and 3 or 4 events added to Iron Marches. Everything else has been in Dry Top and Silverwastes.

There are also still some changes in Timberline Falls .. but thats it.

LS1 for me was really “living” world .. LS2 is just another personal story .. it doesn’t
feel at all like a living world but just like some instanced stuff that plays in an
alternate universe.

But hey .. it seems i am very alone here with preferring LS1 over LS2.

You’re not alone. I preferred LS 1 also.

I just bought the game and you are telling me they are destroying the Vanilla GW2 content when the new stuff comes out? No events in the original areas? Some things will be eliminated and nothing will be added or changed? I know I didn’t spend a load of money on this to get it today but I am not happy if this is true.

DeViLzzz.3128:

I just bought the game and you are telling me they are destroying the Vanilla GW2 content when the new stuff comes out? I know I didn’t spend a load of money on this to get it today but I am not happy.

You have nothing to worry about. Nothing is being destroyed. The vanilla game has a lot of play in it (there are people bere with 5k+ hours).

Sorry OP but you post seems a little like “the sky is falling”. Season 2 of the living story is instanced soits safe to assume that future stories will follow this trend. That doesn’t mean they can happen in preexpansion maps, just you cant access them unless you have bought the expansion. It doen’t mean other things like special events/holidays will stop or even nothing new will be added into the old areas. Lions arch can still be rebuilt, and things can still change you just won’t be able to participate in the instanced living story content unless you pay for the expansion. Its basically like people who missed the 2 week window for the LS for season 2 can participate in drytop or silverwastes just not do the story instances. I don’t see this changing much.

Rin.1046:

And if Mordremoth is defeated in HoT? Then what? How do they bridge LS episodes for both when each has a significantly different timeline and story progression? That would be very difficult in my opinion, when it would be much simpler to lock LS to HoT.

Since all future expansions will have access to Vanilla Tyria than I don’t see why the LS can’t simply continue to happen there accessible to all, with the “narrative bulk” of each expansion delivered as part of the Personal Story.

Rin.1046:

That doesn’t mean LS story will not return to vanilla areas,
it just means non-HoT players will not understand the story of the events happening around them.

From the Interview:
“They will not, no, if you… basically everything that comes after the expansion you will need to own the expansion to be able to access, basically”
So the LS may take place in Vanilla Tyria but non-HoT players won’t get to play along with the cool kids who bought HoT and worse Vanilla Tyria will become a stagnant wasteland like Orr.

Rin.1046:

Look at it this way: If your character did not go off to Maguuma to fight Mordy, you will not know what happened. Or if your character went far away and became a hermit for a while, when he came back to see ice minions running around LA you would not know why.

I never finished the Vanilla Personal Story myself, but that didn’t effect my enjoyment or comprehension of the LS. My conclusion was “Stuff happened, I wasn’t there, the dragon is dead.”

Rin.1046:

All you are really missing out on, by not buying HoT, is the lore and the ongoing personal story. The world will contiinue to move on around you, even if you do not move on with it. If you want to stay up to date with the story, buy the expansion. If you do not want to pay for content, expect to miss sections of the ongoing story of Tyria.

Story is all this game has. There is, no RP support, no “Mini Campaigns” in the gem store, just lore, loot, and PvP. it seems likely that all three will be locked behind future expansions, that leaves vanilla players held hostage to each new expansion, and new players starting late will get to experience the joy (That I’m sure many late to WoW converts remember) of paying a hefty upfront fee to fully enjoy the game.

DeViLzzz.3128:

I just bought the game and you are telling me they are destroying the Vanilla GW2 content when the new stuff comes out? No events in the original areas? Some things will be eliminated and nothing will be added or changed? I know I didn’t spend a load of money on this to get it today but I am not happy if this is true.

Let me put it to you this way. Vanilla Guild Wars 2 is 2. 5 years old. Many people have played it since launch without even taking a day off.

So if for your money you can get say even a year out of the game without having to spend a penny, that’s not more than worth it? And when the expansion comes out, if you really like it, you’re not going to consider buying it anyway?

Edit: To be clear all that content that’s there now remains in the game. Nothing is being removed. But moving forward from this point, if you want to follow the story, you have to buy the story.

If you paid to see Lord of the Rings part 1, you got to see Lord of the Rings Part 1. When part 2 comes out, you can decide if you wish to continue.

Vayne.8563:

If you want to follow the story, you have to buy the story.

If you paid to see Lord of the Rings part 1, you got to see Lord of the Rings Part 1. When part 2 comes out, you can decide if you wish to continue.

That is fine and as it should be.

The problem stems from the (apparently incorrect) inference of many players that the Personal Story would deliver the main plot of GW2 and the Living World was to keep the world fresh and engaging after you ran out of Personal Story, maybe even provide a little taste of the expansions (see Season 2) while being independent of them.

This conclusion was not totally unwarranted, given the modular nature of GW1. Many players both new and GW1 vets would tend to assume that Anet would follow similar practices with GW2, growing off of the “core” game with expansions while keeping the Living World focused firmly on the part of the game that every player would have/need.

GameVeight.2745:

Vayne.8563:

If you want to follow the story, you have to buy the story.

If you paid to see Lord of the Rings part 1, you got to see Lord of the Rings Part 1. When part 2 comes out, you can decide if you wish to continue.

That is fine and as it should be.

The problem stems from the (apparently incorrect) inference of many players that the Personal Story would deliver the main plot of GW2 and the Living World was to keep the world fresh and engaging after you ran out of Personal Story, maybe even provide a little taste of the expansions (see Season 2) while being independent of them.

This conclusion was not totally unwarranted, given the modular nature of GW1. Many players both new and GW1 vets would tend to assume that Anet would follow similar practices with GW2, growing off of the “core” game with expansions while keeping the Living World focused firmly on the part of the game that every player would have/need.

As an example, both the new PvP map and the new WvW map will be available to everyone whether or not they bought the expansion. There will be other changes like that, moving forward, but the focus of the main narrative is going to be the expansions moving forward.

Vayne.8563:

The focus of the main narrative is going to be the expansions moving forward.

When I bought the game during Flame and Frost, the Personal Story was the main narrative and the Living World gave the Personal Story a dynamic world to happen in.
I was simply trying to point out that some people are upset because the Living World/Living Story has replaced the Personal Story as the main narrative over the past few years and will therefor be leaving the core of the game to stagnate as it has been indicated that the Living World will only be available to players who have HoT.

GameVeight.2745:

Vayne.8563:

The focus of the main narrative is going to be the expansions moving forward.

When I bought the game during Flame and Frost, the Personal Story was the main narrative and the Living World gave the Personal Story a dynamic world to happen in.
I was simply trying to point out that some people are upset because the Living World/Living Story has replaced the Personal Story as the main narrative over the past few years and will therefor be leaving the core of the game to stagnate as it has been indicated that the Living World will only be available to players who have HoT.

Whether the living world or the personal story is what moved forward, the fact is, it would have ended at 80 and would have been continued in an expansion though arguably, Season 1 of the Living World did far more to change the world than the personal story ever did.

The personal story itself was just instanced content and didn’t change the world at all. So if you want the world refreshed, a continuation of the personal story wasn’t going to do it anyway.

I’m pretty sure people with still be grinding the holy heck out of Citadel of Flame after HoT hits and telling the rest of us that if you want something you should just grind gold until you can buy it.

So, vanilla will be alive and well. Thanks for your concerns.

Vayne.8563:

Whether the living world or the personal story is what moved forward, the fact is, it would have ended at 80 and would have been continued in an expansion though arguably, Season 1 of the Living World did far more to change the world than the personal story ever did.

The personal story itself was just instanced content and didn’t change the world at all. So if you want the world refreshed, a continuation of the personal story wasn’t going to do it anyway.

The point of contention here is not that the story will be advanced exclusively through the expansion, rather that the Living World is leaving Vanilla GW2 and will only be available to HoT players. Because the Living Story has supplanted the Personal Story this effectively freezes pre-HoT Tyria in time. That is a problem for the devs as well as the players because it limits the scope of all future stories in the same way that the original Personal Story made it so that Orr could never be truly reclaimed.

Mechanically the Personal Story and the current Living Story are nearly identical now, the only difference being that the Living Story is delivered in chunks. So using the current Living World to deliver the next “Dragon Campaign” is only different than delivering it via Personal Story entries in that it removes all hope of a dynamic Living World from the game.

If the HoTs “Dragon Campaign” were delivered through Personal Story entries as an extension of the original Personal Story and the Living World (no longer following the Mordremoth plot but perhaps focusing on peripheral events) continued to be take place in the Vanilla GW2 map space while being available to both Vanilla GW2 players and HoT players then I don’t think there would be all this fuss, people would keep playing Vanilla GW2 and would probably buy HoT within six months of release anyway.

Since the new zone is so dependant of the new mechanics I can’t realy see how HoT story would be logicly open for non-HoT buyers but other MMO games I have played have had their Story free for everyone but all other content locked if not owning the Expac. Anyhow about the living story I think that the Mordremorth Season 2 ends with HoT-Expac and that the next comming LS will start with a new Epiloge and thus will be availeble for the non-HoT players. Atleast that would be a wise decision as long as players are not required to journey into the new Maguuma zone to continue the next LS.

And actually the once who realy complains about the HoT-expac locks out vanilla players.. I mean who will not get the expac sooner or later if they realy like GW2? Why not atleast one more time give them a few bucks for their hard work.

GameVeight.2745:

Vayne.8563:

Whether the living world or the personal story is what moved forward, the fact is, it would have ended at 80 and would have been continued in an expansion though arguably, Season 1 of the Living World did far more to change the world than the personal story ever did.

The personal story itself was just instanced content and didn’t change the world at all. So if you want the world refreshed, a continuation of the personal story wasn’t going to do it anyway.

The point of contention here is not that the story will be advanced exclusively through the expansion, rather that the Living World is leaving Vanilla GW2 and will only be available to HoT players. Because the Living Story has supplanted the Personal Story this effectively freezes pre-HoT Tyria in time. That is a problem for the devs as well as the players because it limits the scope of all future stories in the same way that the original Personal Story made it so that Orr could never be truly reclaimed.

Mechanically the Personal Story and the current Living Story are nearly identical now, the only difference being that the Living Story is delivered in chunks. So using the current Living World to deliver the next “Dragon Campaign” is only different than delivering it via Personal Story entries in that it removes all hope of a dynamic Living World from the game.

If the HoTs “Dragon Campaign” were delivered through Personal Story entries as an extension of the original Personal Story and the Living World (no longer following the Mordremoth plot but perhaps focusing on peripheral events) continued to be take place in the Vanilla GW2 map space while being available to both Vanilla GW2 players and HoT players then I don’t think there would be all this fuss, people would keep playing Vanilla GW2 and would probably buy HoT within six months of release anyway.

But those zones are always frozen in time. Take Orr. Even though in theory it’s changed (without giving away too many spoilers) it hasn’t actually changed. It’s locked in time. When you enter that zone, Zhaitan is still alive and we’re still fighting our way in. It can’t change because of the personal story.

Logic has it that if Anet is going to offer expansions those expansions can’t do anything in those zones, because those zones are used by the personal story. You can’t change them.

Even when LA was destroyed by Scarlet, it screwed with the personal story for new people who found themselves in a destroyed Lion’s Arch when it should have been a thriving city.

If people don’t want to buy the expansion, that’s their own lookout. And they get everything they paid for and more, since stuff has been added.

But no one should expect free stuff forever. The vanilla game will continue as Orr has, exactly as it was, with some changes such as the PvP changes (which no one is paying for) or the QOL changes, like the camera changes. Those are all free.

Want the story, pay the admission price. It really is that simple.

you can tell most of the ppl whining about paying for an expansion never played another mmo or guild wars 1.

its very common practice for MMO’s to charge for expansions. because they put very high amount of developemt hours into the expansion and have to make a profit.

guild wars 2 servers are kept open from a combo of game key sales and gemstore purchases. if they don’t have an income we don’t have servers.

they are a company and their goal is to make money. they do this by providing us with a service.

anyway either get a job so you can afford the very small price that expansions are. or save £5 a month in 7 months u will have enough to buy the expansion. and 7 months is a good time scale.

I blame the freemium app generation of teenagers who expect all games / services to be free.

btw free to play games are free for a reason. it gets u hooked on a basic version of the game then it forces you to pay for content to get access to everything. the only ppl who don’t pay are the ones who are considerd casuals and are of no concern to any one anywhere

Raise the lvl cap and problem is solved.People will buy the xpac to lvl up their characters through the new area and they dont care for the old maps like they do in all mmos.This is unfair and “cheap” to lock ppl outside an entire area for your lvl and because you dont want to spend time to make new gear and more dungeons.

Boanoah I wouldn’t trust Colin or anyone representing any publicity or information about modern industry of any kind, whether video games, movies, technology. It has been proven time and again they will lie or use word play and things that were once promised will change and things denied are often proven to be true.

It wasn’t that long ago they denied there were plans for a paid for expansion etc though to be honest I dont think there were for a long time. This expnasion is really just content they were originally working in as LS and timed feature updates I believe.

joneb.5679:

Boanoah I wouldn’t trust Colin or anyone representing any publicity or information about modern industry of any kind, whether video games, movies, technology. It has been proven time and again they will lie or use word play and things that were once promised will change and things denied are often proven to be true.

It wasn’t that long ago they denied there were plans for a paid for expansion etc though to be honest I dont think there were for a long time. This expnasion is really just content they were originally working in as LS and timed feature updates I believe.

Can I borrow some of that tinfoil? I’m cooking ribs and need something to cover them up.

Vayne.8563:

But those zones are always frozen in time. Take Orr. Even though in theory it’s changed (without giving away too many spoilers) it hasn’t actually changed. It’s locked in time.

Currently it is just “so far” – and as LA and Kessex Hills (as well as some changes to Iron Marches) has shown up that it is not necessarily true. If the Living World will end up being locked behind HoT, it will become true however. That is not a good thing.

Vayne.8563:

But no one should expect free stuff forever.

I don’t. I am definitely planning to buy the expansion. I just don’t want the part i play now to get abandoned. I want the world to truly become bigger, not to just migrate to a different part of it.

Vayne.8563:

Want the story, pay the admission price. It really is that simple.

No, it is not. I will be paying the admission price. But i still don’t want the story to avoid vanilla game regions and consider it an extremely bad limitation for the story itself (and for my enjoyment of the expansion).

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

But those zones are always frozen in time. Take Orr. Even though in theory it’s changed (without giving away too many spoilers) it hasn’t actually changed. It’s locked in time.

Currently it is just “so far” – and as LA and Kessex Hills (as well as some changes to Iron Marches) has shown up that it is not necessarily true. If the Living World will end up being locked behind HoT, it will become true however. That is not a good thing.

Vayne.8563:

But no one should expect free stuff forever.

I don’t. I am definitely planning to buy the expansion. I just don’t want the part i play now to get abandoned. I want the world to truly become bigger, not to just migrate to a different part of it.

Vayne.8563:

Want the story, pay the admission price. It really is that simple.

No, it is not. I will be paying the admission price. But i still don’t want the story to avoid vanilla game regions and consider it an extremely bad limitation for the story itself (and for my enjoyment of the expansion).

So how do you deal with the issues like Orr. People who have yet to experience the game, coming to the game, won’t have that vanilla experience you like so much. The changes to LA have thrown off the personal story. So will changes to Orr. The changes to something like Kessex Hills are okay, but in the end of the day, how much time does anyone spend in Kessex Hills?

I’m not saying Anet should never touch the starting zones, but changing them wholesale over time will affect people new to the game.

And you know, there was very little change to early areas during the life of Guild Wars 1 was well.

The fact is, the only workable solution I can see, short of phasing which comes with a whole host of problems, is to make sure the world is time locked to the time you’re supposed to be going through it.

joneb.5679:

Boanoah I wouldn’t trust Colin or anyone representing any publicity or information about modern industry of any kind, whether video games, movies, technology. It has been proven time and again they will lie or use word play and things that were once promised will change and things denied are often proven to be true.

It wasn’t that long ago they denied there were plans for a paid for expansion etc though to be honest I dont think there were for a long time. This expnasion is really just content they were originally working in as LS and timed feature updates I believe.

Want to talk about liars? I kind of smell one right now. Well, okay more like a conspiracy theorist with wild accusations that are unfounded and unproven.

This expansion encompasses an Elder Dragon. They’ve always planned from the beginning to have the “big bads” as expansion content that they can sell. It’s the main story of the game’s continuation. The Living Story can be seen as filler content that only through a string of revelations was exposed to be a build up to the expansion.

They were right in saying that they had no plans for an expansion in the first year, because they didn’t. At the time they were still evolving the Living Story and changing aspects of the game. I’d think that only around the time that Scarlet’s Thumper Towers appeared in Tyria were they making solid plans for a Dragon Awakening.

OT: I’m unsure the source of the OP’s Q/A that was posted, so I’m unsure the validity of it. However I’ll address it like it is real:

• Q: If there’s players that are playing and don’t buy the expansion will they still be able to do things in the Living World?

• A: They will not, no, if you… basically everything that comes after the expansion you will need to own the expansion to be able to access, basically. Pretty much all updates from that point will be expansion specific and the core world will be what it is today.

I’m thinking he means that they’re not going back to the world to continually change it for the sake of vanilla only players. They’re not going to go back and tweak/change things that are already in a fine state [like they’re not going to change Orr to make it “clean” after the Pact destroyed Zhaitan] (in fact, he mentioned something similar in this interview here: http://www.guildmag.com/pax-east-2015-guild-wars-2-developer-interview/ ).

And I’m sure that Living Story stuff will end up in the game’s base world, but will not be accessible without the expansion (like a new instance to talk to Jennah for something diplomatic between Divinity’s Reach and the Mursaat). It’s just content that non-expansion players cannot access because it is relevant to the story’s continuation after the expansion.

Also, don’t think for a second that we still won’t have Wintersday and Halloween, amongst other festivals and events.

I’m not gonna pretend I’ve read the whole thread, as most of it doesn’t even interest me. Still, here’s my two cents:

I played GW2 at launch quite a bit, but lost interest after a while. I decided to return now when they announced the expansion, but, naturally, I can’t log in. I’ve long forgotten my character’s names, so I had to get my password reset by support and all that. But it’s been ages since I played, so I decided to hell with it and bought a new copy on the sale. This means I’m now a vanilla player, and will start a brand new character. So any expansion-areas are waaaay beyond my reach. And considering I rarely get to max level anyway, the expansion-area will probably always be beyond my reach.

Furthermore, I did play Neverwinter quite a bit, until they releaesed the Icewind Dale expansion. The problem is that to get there, we first had to grind one of the other two max-level areas for two whole weeks pr character just to unlock the buffs we needed to get there. Two weeks. Pr character. That already excluded a whole lot of players who hated grinding and/or hadn’t reached max level yet. So what’s after that? Grind Icewind Dale to get to the next expansion after that? It would have excluded yet more players. By following this route, they would naturally come to a point where only a handful of players are dedicated enough to get to the new expansion area.

This is a big risk, even for GW2. Not everyone wants to reach max level, and not everyone are dedicated enough or able to do it. The problem is MMORPGs keep releasing expansions focusing mainly on the max level players, so the rest of us keep getting expansion after expansion after expansion we have no interest in. What the developers really SHOULD do is make a ton of content for the max level players, but also improve the low-level areas a lot, too. Make new classes. Make new areas. Make new low-level dungeons. Anything to improve that part of the game too. Not just for new players, but make it fun to make alts, too. Make it fun to try out the new classes.

tl;rd: Focusing on the max level players is great, but please don’t forget the rest of us. We are, after all, the majority of the players.

BattleCat.2098:

I’m not gonna pretend I’ve read the whole thread, as most of it doesn’t even interest me. Still, here’s my two cents:

I played GW2 at launch quite a bit, but lost interest after a while. I decided to return now when they announced the expansion, but, naturally, I can’t log in. I’ve long forgotten my character’s names, so I had to get my password reset by support and all that. But it’s been ages since I played, so I decided to hell with it and bought a new copy on the sale. This means I’m now a vanilla player, and will start a brand new character. So any expansion-areas are waaaay beyond my reach. And considering I rarely get to max level anyway, the expansion-area will probably always be beyond my reach.

Furthermore, I did play Neverwinter quite a bit, until they releaesed the Icewind Dale expansion. The problem is that to get there, we first had to grind one of the other two max-level areas for two whole weeks pr character just to unlock the buffs we needed to get there. Two weeks. Pr character. That already excluded a whole lot of players who hated grinding and/or hadn’t reached max level yet. So what’s after that? Grind Icewind Dale to get to the next expansion after that? It would have excluded yet more players. By following this route, they would naturally come to a point where only a handful of players are dedicated enough to get to the new expansion area.

This is a big risk, even for GW2. Not everyone wants to reach max level, and not everyone are dedicated enough or able to do it. The problem is MMORPGs keep releasing expansions focusing mainly on the max level players, so the rest of us keep getting expansion after expansion after expansion we have no interest in. What the developers really SHOULD do is make a ton of content for the max level players, but also improve the low-level areas a lot, too. Make new classes. Make new areas. Make new low-level dungeons. Anything to improve that part of the game too. Not just for new players, but make it fun to make alts, too. Make it fun to try out the new classes.

tl;rd: Focusing on the max level players is great, but please don’t forget the rest of us. We are, after all, the majority of the players.

why should they constantly give such players new content, i mean they already not seen the existing one?
btw, the gw2 addon is not hidden behind grind, you are 80, go to the new areas.

BattleCat.2098:

tl;rd: Focusing on the max level players is great, but please don’t forget the rest of us. We are, after all, the majority of the players.

If you are not able to spend the time to get your character to level 80 then there is already more than enough content for you. GW2 has levelling up to 80 as a relatively trivial achievement, mainly because high levels don’t have a very flat rate of level progression. You can’t do world completion without reaching level 80 for instance, so there is already more than enough to do for non-80 players.

Sister Swiftspell.1869:

@Tobias & Siphaed

That’s interesting, because I would of thought the ones wearing the tinfoil hats and spouting conspiracies are the ones who refuse to recognize that modern day industries (whether corporate or political) are constantly using hype, lies (wordplay/double speak), secrecy, manipulation (hype, repetition) and delusion (you need this product to feel happy, accepted and secure in life) to sell their products.

Unfortunately this is just modern day practices and how the world works, so it’s practically a given that it will be here too in one way or another…

Actually sounds more like politicians to me than CEO/COO. But then again it’s the billionaires in the corporate world who control the politicians now so guess you are right.

This game has always been buy to play. I don’t get all the alarmist tin foil hat comments. There is plenty of content in the “vanilla” GW2. If you want more you pay. And if you are playing this game I don’t understand why you wouldn’t buy HoT.

Galphar.3901:

Sister Swiftspell.1869:

@Tobias & Siphaed

That’s interesting, because I would of thought the ones wearing the tinfoil hats and spouting conspiracies are the ones who refuse to recognize that modern day industries (whether corporate or political) are constantly using hype, lies (wordplay/double speak), secrecy, manipulation (hype, repetition) and delusion (you need this product to feel happy, accepted and secure in life) to sell their products.

Unfortunately this is just modern day practices and how the world works, so it’s practically a given that it will be here too in one way or another…

Actually sounds more like politicians to me than CEO/COO. But then again it’s the billionaires in the corporate world who control the politicians now so guess you are right.

I know right. How dare these evil corporations make a profit. How dare they try to market their product and make money. /sarcasm

If you don’t like the way a company does business then don’t buy their product. Most of us don’t care to hear all the anti capitalist bs.

This is normal. Look at WoW, the new levels and maps are only available if u buy the expansion.

Serdoc.7261:

This is normal. Look at WoW, the new levels and maps are only available if u buy the expansion.

And wow charges a subscription on top of that and has a cash shop.

Galphar.3901:

Sister Swiftspell.1869:

@Tobias & Siphaed

That’s interesting, because I would of thought the ones wearing the tinfoil hats and spouting conspiracies are the ones who refuse to recognize that modern day industries (whether corporate or political) are constantly using hype, lies (wordplay/double speak), secrecy, manipulation (hype, repetition) and delusion (you need this product to feel happy, accepted and secure in life) to sell their products.

Unfortunately this is just modern day practices and how the world works, so it’s practically a given that it will be here too in one way or another…

Actually sounds more like politicians to me than CEO/COO. But then again it’s the billionaires in the corporate world who control the politicians now so guess you are right.

Sadly, I cannot quite agree. My experiences? It’s the advertising wing of companies who pull that shady stuff more often than the people at the top. And the more you have a worthwhile, solid product/service . . . the less you need to resort to it.

That’s why there’s a list of free-to-play, web-based games which have advertisements which have nothing in them about the game, nothing in the ads resembling the game itself, and just try to reel you in to take a look at them. It’s also probably why WoW now advertises with pre-rendered cutscenes rather than “isn’t it cool to be playing the game with all these people?” like it used to be.

I drop to my knees and thank the Six ArenaNet’s ads gave up trying to play “the ad game”. Those were painful.

Anyway, that tinfoil, I’d like some. It might help my friend’s Comcast run better. Wait, who am I kidding, that won’t happen. Forget about it.

Vayne.8563:

Serdoc.7261:

This is normal. Look at WoW, the new levels and maps are only available if u buy the expansion.

And wow charges a subscription on top of that and has a cash shop.

And tie-in card game, too. I’ve been curious about it but as I’m already hopelessly enslaved to MTG . . . when it comes to my budget, there can only be one (CCG). I’ll take the one which has a nice solid foundation of mechanics and keeps proving it has legs, thanks

This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.

Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.

How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?

I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories

its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though

phys.7689:

This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.

Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.

How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?

I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories

its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though

They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.

Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).

Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.

Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.

They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.

It’s normal that you have to pass on features of the expansion, that’s what an expansion is.

If you want those features buy the expansion kitten . It’s not that it costs more than a dinner with your girl friend.

Boanoah.6719:

It was confirmed by Colin in an interview that all Living Story segments, events, and updates will be gated behind the expansion. Nothing like the attack on Lion’s Arch, the Toxic Alliance, or the Silverwastes/Drytop will be coming out for vanilla players to interact with.
(..)
How do you guys feel about this?

I think its OK. It is how B2P (buy to play) with an expansion works. You have to buy the expansion to be able play it.

However, A-Net still tries to do things, that “the rest of tyria” will not become a wasteland. We will have to wait and see if this is successful.

Greetings.

phys.7689:

This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.

Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.

How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?

I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories

its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though

I am pretty sure they won’t throw out the old game.

As Vayne above me says, there is still so much to do from the Vanilla game but sure I expect Zones to be pretty empty the first days maby weeks but then we will have new players, old players leveling new characters without tomes, 100% Map Explorers and also the new mastery system has it’s own usefullness in the old zones so people will still be there. World bosses is still active and events will be running over and over again. Farming this and that will still be a craving for some players… We have Jumping puzzles, collections, Mini Dungeons, and if I have understood Colin right I think that Adventures will be implemented in the old maps too.

I will first create a Revenant and play in one of the starter zones. I won’t use any tomes since I think it belongs to the experience of an MMO to level a new class.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.

Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.

How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?

I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories

its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though

They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.

Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).

Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.

Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.

They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.

yeah but your just talking about putting rewards in various places, not an actual change in the area.
i dont care how many rewards they put in old zone X, its not gonna make old zone X that entertaining, or the overall world of GW2.

As far as megaserver, Colin is still saying he doesnt really want to expand the world much. Which i was surprised to hear, because i thought that was one of the + points of megaserver.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.

Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.

How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?

I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories

its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though

They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.

Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).

Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.

Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.

They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.

yeah but your just talking about putting rewards in various places, not an actual change in the area.
i dont care how many rewards they put in old zone X, its not gonna make old zone X that entertaining, or the overall world of GW2.

As far as megaserver, Colin is still saying he doesnt really want to expand the world much. Which i was surprised to hear, because i thought that was one of the + points of megaserver.

You’re moving the goal posts. You said that there wouldn’t be people in the other zones. I pointed out that older zones were abandoned until Anet made changes to the game to get people there.

Half the business of an MMO is traffic control. Getting people to where stuff happens. No one wants to see no one when playing an MMO.

But changing the world, that’s not really on the table, at least not in any major way. It goes back to what I said about Orr, you can’t heal Orr, because it would literally ruin the game for any new player. These zones are locked in time. They are going to be locked in time.

It doesn’t mean they’ll be dead, or no one will be there, or people can’t have fun in them.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.

Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.

How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?

I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories

its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though

They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.

Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).

Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.

Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.

They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.

yeah but your just talking about putting rewards in various places, not an actual change in the area.
i dont care how many rewards they put in old zone X, its not gonna make old zone X that entertaining, or the overall world of GW2.

As far as megaserver, Colin is still saying he doesnt really want to expand the world much. Which i was surprised to hear, because i thought that was one of the + points of megaserver.

You’re moving the goal posts. You said that there wouldn’t be people in the other zones. I pointed out that older zones were abandoned until Anet made changes to the game to get people there.

Half the business of an MMO is traffic control. Getting people to where stuff happens. No one wants to see no one when playing an MMO.

But changing the world, that’s not really on the table, at least not in any major way. It goes back to what I said about Orr, you can’t heal Orr, because it would literally ruin the game for any new player. These zones are locked in time. They are going to be locked in time.

It doesn’t mean they’ll be dead, or no one will be there, or people can’t have fun in them.

My point isnt really about people in old zones, its about content in old zones. Or more accurately, wanting to keep people interested in the overall world.

I am fine with them not changing anything, but then i would think they need to make expansions bigger. Or they can have small expansions, and try to constantly keep the overall world fresh and exciting.

But it seems hard to keep the world fresh and exciting, by only adding small areas, and keeping everything the same.

I think we have to differentiate. From recent talks between fans and Colin on PAX East it seems that the LW continues a while in the new region introduced via Hot. HoT seems to be only one stage on the way to kill Mordremoth. LW taking place in the Heart of Maguuma is certainly locked behind the expansion.

But it is not completely clear what will happen after the defeat of Mordremoth. If we see a new LW arc taking place in old maps as a prelude for a new dragon or opening up new maps like SW or DT then player who do not own HoT can possibly participate until the LW is embedded again into an expansion.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

This is actually a pretty big issue, the actual point of the thread isnt what you think it would be, but its a big thing.

Its something that has always been a problem in GW2, but now its something they are sort of going to have to commit to.

How are they going to keep people in these old zones, but at the same time freeze them in place?
How can they expand the world, if they want to keep it tight and small?

I think the best overall strategy is to have the base GW2 not as pact tyria, but as the everchanging tyria, and make the expansions the part that is more locked into certain times/stories

its a bit of a sticky wicket no matter how you slice it though

They’ll do it the same way they do it now. They’ll haves mats in those zones you can’t get in higher zones. They’ll have dailies in those zones. They’ll have quests that send you to those zones. They’ve done it all along.

Remember when we made Mawdrey and you had to do events in Caledon Forest? Who doesn’t need softwood (I know I do).

Just softwood and Iron keep people in 15-25 zones.

Actually Anet has already done a decent job of keeping those zones pretty busy and they don’t have to keep them usually busy because of the megaserver.

They said all along, they didn’t want to add new zones until the megaserver was finished. Now you know why.

yeah but your just talking about putting rewards in various places, not an actual change in the area.
i dont care how many rewards they put in old zone X, its not gonna make old zone X that entertaining, or the overall world of GW2.

As far as megaserver, Colin is still saying he doesnt really want to expand the world much. Which i was surprised to hear, because i thought that was one of the + points of megaserver.

You’re moving the goal posts. You said that there wouldn’t be people in the other zones. I pointed out that older zones were abandoned until Anet made changes to the game to get people there.

Half the business of an MMO is traffic control. Getting people to where stuff happens. No one wants to see no one when playing an MMO.

But changing the world, that’s not really on the table, at least not in any major way. It goes back to what I said about Orr, you can’t heal Orr, because it would literally ruin the game for any new player. These zones are locked in time. They are going to be locked in time.

It doesn’t mean they’ll be dead, or no one will be there, or people can’t have fun in them.

My point isnt really about people in old zones, its about content in old zones. Or more accurately, wanting to keep people interested in the overall world.

I am fine with them not changing anything, but then i would think they need to make expansions bigger. Or they can have small expansions, and try to constantly keep the overall world fresh and exciting.

But it seems hard to keep the world fresh and exciting, by only adding small areas, and keeping everything the same.

People keep using the word small for this expansion when in fact we don’t know how big or small the expansion is.

In the old framework, big meant zones and maybe raids. That’s all it meant. It also meant a level cap increase and gear grind. That’s how MMOs have functioned.

Now, Anet is doing something very different. Small to me has almost nothing to do with the land mass and almost everything to do with the amount of content. Dry Top is a smaller zone than a lot of other zones, but it’s packed with content. I’ve spent far more time in Dry Top than I ever did in Gendarran Fields.

The same is true with the Silverwastes.

If Anet delivers on making challenging, engaging content that keeps people playing, that’s a big expansion.

Take the WoW expansion which has lots of zones. Do you notice how many people we’re getting from WOW now because they’re bored.

If the expansion lasts a couple of months it’s on par with the expansion of most other MMOs. That’s the best way to judge it in my opinion.

Stupid forum bugs. lol