Vanilla vs Now

Vanilla vs Now

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Posted by: Shortage.5427

Shortage.5427

Remember back in vanilla were traits were more complex and you had a long variety of playthroughs. There was even gear progression and gold came by harder.

Old vanilla Guild Wars 2 : https://youtu.be/AVpjtJnWnXo?t=595

Back then you would kill a mob because you need the mats, right now mobs are just a nuisance to just make you go slower. Right now Traits are simplistic and too linear, even the raids are forcing you to play exact builds or you are worthless.

What the heck happened to you Guild Wars? Casul illness ?

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

I did like being able to only go part way into a trait line and put the remaining points into a different line, or put a lower ranked trait into the grandmaster slot, but I do also agree that people choosing to do that probably just means the grandmaster traits are badly designed and need to be fixed.

On the other hand I think the early version where you could for example put 3 points into a trait line and not even reach the first minor trait was pointless – there was no benefit to doing that so simplifying it so that every point unlocked something was a definite improvement.

I also didn’t like having to pay gold to unlock later traits. I get that it was supposed to be a gold sink but it just meant I ran without traits until I was sure I’d be keeping the character.

Similarly I’m glad they seperated traits and stats because it was extremely frustrating to have to compromise my build – either using traits I didn’t want so I could have the stats or vice versa – just because the seemingly arbitrary pairings didn’t match what I wanted to do. This way I have a lot more freedom over my builds.

So overall I think I prefer the new system.

As for the other stuff I still collect materials, because I still need them, and all the gear progression is still in the game.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Sadismo.7508

Sadismo.7508

Remember back in vanilla were traits were more complex and you had a long variety of playthroughs. There was even gear progression and gold came by harder.

Old vanilla Guild Wars 2 : https://youtu.be/AVpjtJnWnXo?t=595

Back then you would kill a mob because you need the mats, right now mobs are just a nuisance to just make you go slower. Right now Traits are simplistic and too linear, even the raids are forcing you to play exact builds or you are worthless.

What the heck happened to you Guild Wars? Casul illness ?

I member!
And I like it more now than then!

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Posted by: Anela.3867

Anela.3867

I much prefer the new system.

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Posted by: Avador.8934

Avador.8934

I also like how it is now.

I am lazy to write it over and over. So sorry for my English.

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Posted by: Baamoink.4281

Baamoink.4281

Also much prefer how it is now

Guild: Mantle Assasins [MA] – Guild Leader
Server: Far Shiverpeaks EU

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

The game now is much better than at launch, even though development wise it is worse off IMO.

That is to say, for the amount of improvements made, an even larger amount of potential was wasted in not touching up related or older systems instead or in addition. Now ofc, this is a now thing, can’t know whether right tomorrow that’ll change.

Still, as for the main topic, the game is way better than at release.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Raine.1394

Raine.1394

Played since before release. Much, much preferred vanilla in most regards, and in terms of builds especially. I remember pulling off interesting hybrids which was great fun. Today we walk in lockstep and anything new added to the game simply becomes the new FOTM. It was fun designing builds back in the day.

I think about the changes in terms of a great conspiracy. (Here read The Stepford Wives if you haven’t read it or seen the movie.) My theory is that the original developers were replaced by surrogates to despoil the grand thing that was GW2 at release. The Stepford developers were all pretty much in place by November 2012.

(edited by Raine.1394)

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

Ok sure if you’re simply following the meta or whatever builds other people tell you to use then I’m sure it is boring. But the same would have been true under the old system.

I’ve always put together my own builds (in all games). Sometimes they’re similar to what other people are using, sometimes they’re not, most of the time I have no idea. (Although yesterday for the first time ever I was, rather bluntly, informed that I’m using a high DPS build on my ranger and need to slow down killing things in group events so other people have time to tag them, so I assume right now that one character is in line with the meta.)

As I said above I find the new system allows more flexibility because under the old system I had to either choose which stats I wanted and then accept whichever traits were on that line or choose my traits and then try to work with the stats it gave me. Under the new system I’m free to combine any stats with any traits which gives more flexibility over all than being allowed to choose 3 lower tier traits from whichever trait line I was stuck with.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Sadismo.7508

Sadismo.7508

Played since before release. Much, much preferred vanilla in most regards, and in terms of builds especially. I remember pulling off interesting hybrids which was great fun. Today we walk in lockstep and anything new added to the game simply becomes the new FOTM. It was fun designing builds back in the day.

I think about the changes in terms of a great conspiracy. (Here read The Stepford Wives if you haven’t read it or seen the movie.) My theory is that the original developers were replaced by surrogates to despoil the grand thing that was GW2 at release. The Stepford developers were all pretty much in place by November 2012.

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Posted by: Sadismo.7508

Sadismo.7508

I still use hybrids and most of my playtime goes to vanilla specs, I also experiment with elite/vanilla (elite spec/vanilla weapon) builds and find them so much fun. Try new things, don’t let the bias stop you from enjoying the game.
PS: looking forward to the new elite spec, when the builds get twice more interesting, especially PvP and WvW-wise

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Posted by: LucosTheDutch.4819

LucosTheDutch.4819

Ah, the good old “vanilla was better” thread. I knew it was gonna pop up eventually.

While GW2 currently is not without flaws, it is miles better than vanilla in every possible conceivable way. At least in my opinion.

In vanilla I was utterly bored the moment I reached level 80. Grinding for legendaries was more of a pain back then. WvW has always been bad and meaningless, not to mention unrewarding, especially in vanilla. PvP in vanilla was also very unrewarding. Dungeons were very unrewarding in vanilla as well, even though it was the most lucrative part of GW2’s end-game.

Besides dungeons, WvW and PvP, there was no end-game in GW2, no meaningful end-game and no rewarding end-game besides dungeons. Worst of all, there was no guild content at all, which was the reason GW2 vanilla did so poorly financially. People grew bored and quit playing GW2 en masse. Only the biggest fanboys or people too poor to afford a WoW subscription stayed.

Right now we have a ton of end-game content. Like, A TON. There is SO MUCH to do. We get 2 raid wings each year on average (which is not much but better than no raids on average). We get 2 new fractals each year on average. We have PvP seasons and tournaments for everyone now. And we get a new map + story chapter every 2 months! Something we could only dream of back in vanilla!

Oh, and lets not even start about the zerker meta, which was even more prevalent and much more broken in vanilla than current GW2.

I really do think that people tend to look at old games or older versions of games with rose-tinted classes.

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Posted by: starlinvf.1358

starlinvf.1358

All that happened is Guildwars 2 found an identity, and tried to run with it. The vanilla game didn’t know what it wanted to be, so it spitballed everything. Some was good, some was bad…. but not nearly enough of it work in concert.

In the time since then, particularly leading up to HOT, the game was forced to pick a path, and used that choice to make itself more coherent. So while it gave up some of its potential in one area, it became cohesive in several others.

There is a running joke in the industry about how the MMO market base wants “something like WoW, but different”. Guildwars 2 tried to be the Anti-WoW, thinking that if they avoid being compared to WoW, that it wouldn’t have to compete with it. What they weren’t expecting was getting the attention of half the WoW population, much less a sizable chunk of them playing the game just to check it out. Even to this day, WoW players who get burnt out on it will ask about this game to see if they want to try it.

And to its credit, Guildwars 2 manages to avoid the more egregious traps WoW clones tend to fall into when trying to replicate concepts popularized by WoW in its hayday. Most people forget that, despite the game play it enabled, the design of Guild wars 1 is a cosmic horror when it comes maintaining it. The fact GW1 didn’t implode under the weight of its skill list, is a testament to how good a job they did for coming up with very distinct, coherent skills and effects. But there is no denying that the movement was awkward most of the time, the kind of things they could mechanically was actually very limited, and that the popularity of the game rested very heavily on the locations, presentation of the story, and very heavily integrated exploration aspect in the game play. Even to this day, the most recalled aspect of the game was wandering around, enjoying the scenery, and treking to remote locations to find rare or unique things. I myself would replay the whole Prophecies story line at least 3 times a year just to relive the story. There are very few single player games I would play more then once…… so that says a lot about where the strength of the Guildwars franchise seems to be found. Which is odd when you consider, overall, the story summery being very mediocre, standard fantasy fare.

Simply put…. Guildwar’s greatest strength is its sense of presentation. If you look at the past complaints of this game, much of the loss of depth in the buildcraft was a secondary concern to how little mileage we get from the game’s story, locations, and sense of purpose. Even today, there are still prominent arguments about figuring out what to do with your time; where as in GW1, that was only problem if you were the type that never thought to look past the quest markers.

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Posted by: Mackanstein.2503

Mackanstein.2503

Remember back in vanilla were traits were more complex and you had a long variety of playthroughs. There was even gear progression and gold came by harder.

Old vanilla Guild Wars 2 : https://youtu.be/AVpjtJnWnXo?t=595

Back then you would kill a mob because you need the mats, right now mobs are just a nuisance to just make you go slower. Right now Traits are simplistic and too linear, even the raids are forcing you to play exact builds or you are worthless.

What the heck happened to you Guild Wars? Casul illness ?

5g was £20? Brb, getting my time machine.

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Posted by: Raine.1394

Raine.1394

All that happened is Guildwars 2 found an identity, and tried to run with it. The vanilla game didn’t know what it wanted to be, so it spitballed everything. Some was good, some was bad…. but not nearly enough of it work in concert.

In the time since then, particularly leading up to HOT, the game was forced to pick a path, and used that choice to make itself more coherent. So while it gave up some of its potential in one area, it became cohesive in several others.

There is a running joke in the industry about how the MMO market base wants “something like WoW, but different”. Guildwars 2 tried to be the Anti-WoW, thinking that if they avoid being compared to WoW, that it wouldn’t have to compete with it. What they weren’t expecting was getting the attention of half the WoW population, much less a sizable chunk of them playing the game just to check it out. Even to this day, WoW players who get burnt out on it will ask about this game to see if they want to try it.

And to its credit, Guildwars 2 manages to avoid the more egregious traps WoW clones tend to fall into when trying to replicate concepts popularized by WoW in its hayday. Most people forget that, despite the game play it enabled, the design of Guild wars 1 is a cosmic horror when it comes maintaining it. The fact GW1 didn’t implode under the weight of its skill list, is a testament to how good a job they did for coming up with very distinct, coherent skills and effects. But there is no denying that the movement was awkward most of the time, the kind of things they could mechanically was actually very limited, and that the popularity of the game rested very heavily on the locations, presentation of the story, and very heavily integrated exploration aspect in the game play. Even to this day, the most recalled aspect of the game was wandering around, enjoying the scenery, and treking to remote locations to find rare or unique things. I myself would replay the whole Prophecies story line at least 3 times a year just to relive the story. There are very few single player games I would play more then once…… so that says a lot about where the strength of the Guildwars franchise seems to be found. Which is odd when you consider, overall, the story summery being very mediocre, standard fantasy fare.

Simply put…. Guildwar’s greatest strength is its sense of presentation. If you look at the past complaints of this game, much of the loss of depth in the buildcraft was a secondary concern to how little mileage we get from the game’s story, locations, and sense of purpose. Even today, there are still prominent arguments about figuring out what to do with your time; where as in GW1, that was only problem if you were the type that never thought to look past the quest markers.

The idea that GW2 found an identity and ran with it is absolutely false. Go back and watch the pre-release videos. GW2 was rich in identity and how it differed from everything that had gone before. It was principle rich and had a design philosophy that was explicated for miles.

What we have witnessed over time is the devolution of GW2 and a faltering sense of identity and mission. Within three months of release GW2 added vertical progression to the game. Who would have predicted that from the identity that GW2 launched with? No, we are not witnessing the finding of an identity. HoT was a mad lurch away from the founding philosophy. And, now with the PoF trailer we have allusions to and fond remembrances of what GW2 was at some indeterminate point in the past. If so, it could be the finding of an identity, but it would be the one it already had.

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Posted by: Shortage.5427

Shortage.5427

Played since before release. Much, much preferred vanilla in most regards, and in terms of builds especially. I remember pulling off interesting hybrids which was great fun. Today we walk in lockstep and anything new added to the game simply becomes the new FOTM. It was fun designing builds back in the day.

I think about the changes in terms of a great conspiracy. (Here read The Stepford Wives if you haven’t read it or seen the movie.) My theory is that the original developers were replaced by surrogates to despoil the grand thing that was GW2 at release. The Stepford developers were all pretty much in place by November 2012.

This makes me sad.

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Posted by: Shortage.5427

Shortage.5427

Ah, the good old “vanilla was better” thread. I knew it was gonna pop up eventually.

While GW2 currently is not without flaws, it is miles better than vanilla in every possible conceivable way. At least in my opinion.

In vanilla I was utterly bored the moment I reached level 80. Grinding for legendaries was more of a pain back then. WvW has always been bad and meaningless, not to mention unrewarding, especially in vanilla. PvP in vanilla was also very unrewarding. Dungeons were very unrewarding in vanilla as well, even though it was the most lucrative part of GW2’s end-game.

Besides dungeons, WvW and PvP, there was no end-game in GW2, no meaningful end-game and no rewarding end-game besides dungeons. Worst of all, there was no guild content at all, which was the reason GW2 vanilla did so poorly financially. People grew bored and quit playing GW2 en masse. Only the biggest fanboys or people too poor to afford a WoW subscription stayed.

Right now we have a ton of end-game content. Like, A TON. There is SO MUCH to do. We get 2 raid wings each year on average (which is not much but better than no raids on average). We get 2 new fractals each year on average. We have PvP seasons and tournaments for everyone now. And we get a new map + story chapter every 2 months! Something we could only dream of back in vanilla!

Oh, and lets not even start about the zerker meta, which was even more prevalent and much more broken in vanilla than current GW2.

I really do think that people tend to look at old games or older versions of games with rose-tinted classes.

I am going to disagree with you there. Back in vanilla there was gear progression. Gold came by way harder than today. In vanilla you had to do open world events and exploration (Literally the selling point of guild wars 2) to earn gold and karma, so that you can buy gear. Just like in the video i linked 5 gold was 20 pounds worth of gold. Rare was the midgame and exotic high end. Months later ascended came by and the became even more interesting. Everything went downhill with the new dungeon token system. The easier they made things come by, less and less people stayed.

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Posted by: RedDeadFred.1256

RedDeadFred.1256

I think the game is the best it’s ever been. Much prefer the current trait system to the old one. I guess me liking the new system more means my casualness has somewhat hurt the game for you.

Sorry, but not sorry

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Posted by: Dashingsteel.3410

Dashingsteel.3410

The game has been taken over by Nintendo geeks

The game is more and more about movement skills and gimmicks. Just look at how mounts are to be utilized in the upcoming expansion. The vertical maps have much more appeal to gamers who like platformers. Jumping puzzles, once considered an “extra” to be enjoyed are now becoming requirements.

Just look at the living story. Some of the boss fights are actually not fights. They are puzzles. The whole “fight” is figuring out the gimmick that will allow you to damage the boss. Once you have figured out the gimmick the actual fight is extremely lackluster.

Not a fan of these trends

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Posted by: Aylaine.1036

Aylaine.1036

I prefer the new system and I’ve been playing since launch. The game was good back then, but lacked serious refinement. Now I feel like I have more choices on where I want to explore, and when. Back then you had to explore to get anywhere, which was both good and band. I don’t feel like the game is more casual, honestly the more refined builds, specific gear needed, and better play needed have made it less so.

Also, even though dungeons had a purpose back in the day, it was one of mindless grinding. I’ve done enough CoF and Arah for a lifetime. Still dungeons need something to bring them back to relevancy.

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Posted by: Chyanne Waters.8719

Chyanne Waters.8719

Lol Vanilla game that is so silly in a game. Why do people keep worrying about that small time in this game. What ever you do in this game will keep changing through time. That is how this game works which is great. How long was the so called vanilla game. What do people who worry so much about the vanilla game want? No changes? no progress? no new areas? no new ways to explore?

May as well never play past vanilla game ever grow up and learn to adjust to things as they come. Change is one thing most of us like about this game so stop complaining about it and either accept it or just leave, since you can’t seem to accept the changes as they come.

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Posted by: LimeSamurai.9140

LimeSamurai.9140

There will always be those that prefer the game at its origin because they believe it was harder and not as easy. Its the same in WoW as GW2

The game is way better now. It isn’t easier, its more accessible.

Tudes

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

The game has been taken over by Nintendo geeks

The game is more and more about movement skills and gimmicks. Just look at how mounts are to be utilized in the upcoming expansion. The vertical maps have much more appeal to gamers who like platformers. Jumping puzzles, once considered an “extra” to be enjoyed are now becoming requirements.

Just look at the living story. Some of the boss fights are actually not fights. They are puzzles. The whole “fight” is figuring out the gimmick that will allow you to damage the boss. Once you have figured out the gimmick the actual fight is extremely lackluster.

Not a fan of these trends

Agreed on all these points. I also don’t like the obsession with OHKOs, filling rooms with barely visible death rings, and general perfection required to play the game nowadays. I’m fine for challenging gameplay, but you shouldn’t be wholesale slaughtered because your foot is off by a pixel. Everything HoT and beyond has felt exhausting and overtuned, and tied with the already minuscule rewards, a bit pointless.

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

(edited by Makai.3429)

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Posted by: DeShadowWolf.6854

DeShadowWolf.6854

Remember back in vanilla were traits were more complex and you had a long variety of playthroughs. There was even gear progression and gold came by harder.

Traits were more complex because they were also more confused. You could put points into, say, Fire Magic and get +power and +crit dmg. There was more choice at each juncture, sure, but that was because most of them were trash. And the “gold came by harder” has a lot to do with player knowledge and inflation. Difficulty of currency acquisition =/= better rewards.

Back then you would kill a mob because you need the mats, right now mobs are just a nuisance to just make you go slower. Right now Traits are simplistic and too linear, even the raids are forcing you to play exact builds or you are worthless.

Again, players got wiser. We realized that farming a mob for a mat was rarely worthwhile, by design. That’s what balances the economy. Farming for gold and buying from the TP is a huge mechanism for balancing inflation. Traits are more linear and simple, but for two reasons: 1) Linearity was necessary for the specialization system, which looks to have much better futureproofing than vanilla, and 2) having fewer options at each point of choice means those traits can be bigger, more important, and less trashy (though the last is dependent on game balance and the meta/content).

Let’s be clear here, nothing, nothing at launch was even close to the difficulty of raids now. Raids need more specific builds because they make the high-end content of vanilla look like peanuts; at launch, things were difficult more because there wasn’t an established corpus of game knowledge. And if you have a very good, speedy group, you can afford to run less optimal builds. Skill does matter.

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

The only main things I remember fondly of old GW2, regarding things we had but now do not…

Omnomberry pie. Although it wasn’t optimal, I had great fun on my Knight’s Warrior using pie, I was quite sturdy as the pie offered quite a bit of sustain and the armor offered a fair bit of toughness. I think when players full shifted to zerker and kept the pie, it got a bit out of hand and pretty much all on-crit foods got a nerf.

The other is dungeons. Back before they introduced extra rewards for completion of certain paths. Players just played the dungeons for fun and learning the paths…I even remember when players started shifting toward elitism and demanding everyone be lvl 80 and if you weren’t, you were being carried. While it’s true that an on-level character lacked traits (and most traits back then were bland and barely did anything anyway), there wasn’t a huge chasm with stats but everyone believed there was! So much so that I ended up grouping with some people on the forums to record a playthrough of a path with all on-level players to demonstrate how much “carrying” was necessary. Ahh, I had to roll up a new character and level them up for it. I still have that Asura Warrior now, even. I even remembered the type of build I used; using potent gear, I had a decent amount of power and condi damage and with the way the signet trait was back then, and 3 signets, I had like 70ish crit chance. Needless to say, we all performed flawlessly (mostly) and proved the point.

As far as systems go, the old trait system was cool and all, but the traits were severely lacking. Most minors were pitiful, the grandmasters were a joke and regardless of how many things you could plug it, it suffered the same issue most suffer from today: there were a few good choices that you “NEEDED” and thus you went from having 25-40 points pre-spent and sprinkling the rest around for a minute change. Now? Nearly all the grandmasters are quite noticable and you’re guaranteed 3 in a build (in older builds, sometimes you wound’t even go that deep in any 1 line because the GMs were just that bland). Some may swear on having specific GM traits for a build, but you can quickly swap within a line for certain purposes and I personally don’t follow any kind of meta (never have) and feel there is a lot more freedom now than back then precisely because your choice of traits feel like just that, a choice between multiple good things.

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Posted by: nolop.8095

nolop.8095

I used to do harcore Raids in Vanilla. At least 24 hours a day, sometimes more.

Burning Crusade really was the best addon. After Wrath of the Lich King the game really went downhill.