Guild Wars 2

Maybe there is a common ground that can be reached to where both sides can have cake and eat it too. If we look at other mmos with gear progressions, we find that the gear itself acts as a key to enter new content, thus creating a gated community. So new gear creates a sense of progression through the game. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand is a scaled universe. No amount of stat progression is going to make a player anymore powerful in any zone. Guild Wars 2 wants to focus around the player and not the gear.

I ask: what is the point of higher stat gear progression? Are the new creatures of the world not scaled to balance the stat progression; in any mmo? This is why +stat gear is only a key, not true progression.

A prime example of an excellent RPG that shares some of the same principles with Anet is Oblivion/Skyrim. In Skyrim, you could technically complete the entire story at level one, because the world is adjusted to your +stat progress. I never felt the need in that game to gain ‘godly’ gear, but rather to find gear that conforms my style of play. Guild Wars 2 is no different. I would take Skyrim’s Action element any day over Diablo 3. And I would take Guild Wars 2 element over World of Warcraft.

I can understand that there is many out in the mmo world that want +stat gear. Some do feel a sense of progression when they see ever-so-larger numbers. But I don’t think the core of this is because of larger numbers; rather, I believe its the element that one is part of a gated community. Being part of a group that has progressed through tougher content that others have not.

Now I don’t think im too far off the mark when I state that most who post in the forums, who rage on either side of the argument, represent the ‘hard-core’ element of Guild Wars 2. ‘Hard-Core’ is relative of course, but I think we all share a common perspective on what it is. And the vast majority that we know are still currently playing Guild Wars 2 are relativity still enjoying the content without too much focus on the actual changes.

The only effective way I can think of at the moment to strike a compromise between the two, is to have Gated content but not progression in gear stats. And I truly think that Anet was trying to strike this balance, with gear that offers a pish-posh amount of stat progression, while at the same time, offering gated content at a certain level of one dungeon. Thus trying to appease the vertical progress side while trying to maintain the balance.

My suggestion: Do away with gear progression and find a better way to implement gated content. If it is an infusion route, make a separate infusion slot on the character data sheet next to accessories. Do not have dungeon level progression. Each character should have access to all levels from the beginning. As a player progresses through the different levels, that player gians access to more powerful infusion gear/accessory. The infusion accessories gained from a dungeon will only pertain to that specific dungeon.

I welcome all constructive comments, concerns and questions.

Gating content in a way that doesn’t invalidate previous content or affect other parts of the game would probably be just fine to the majority of the anti-grind crowd.

Take, as an example, 4 dungeons: A, B, C, and D. Completion of each of these dungeons is tied to an achievement/title. A, B, and C can be completed in any order, but D is gated until the other 3 are completed. Completion of these dungeons doesn’t have any effect on other parts of the game. By doing this, you have created a self-contained gate to content.

Going back to ascended gear: if ascended gear had identical stats to exotic gear, but also had the infusion slot. Infusions could grant increased stats as well as agony resistance, but they worked only in FotM. Again, self-contained content gating.

Honestly? Here I thought Dego was going to be the upper brass of missing the point and ESL I had to see here.

We’re really saying “Please don’t add more stats but instead add more stats to this dungeon tied to a title so everyone can be happy!” I’d say you’re missing the point but I’m curious if you know what a point is.

If the point is that your referring to the Manifesto, then I understand the point completely. First off the Manifesto only implies no grind (in context to the current dilemma of Ascended gear), and grind in itself is relative. But the community agrees that a gear treadmill is a grind. I think your missing the point.

Re-Read and be constructive.

Merthax.5172:

Gating content in a way that doesn’t invalidate previous content or affect other parts of the game would probably be just fine to the majority of the anti-grind crowd.

Take, as an example, 4 dungeons: A, B, C, and D. Completion of each of these dungeons is tied to an achievement/title. A, B, and C can be completed in any order, but D is gated until the other 3 are completed. Completion of these dungeons doesn’t have any effect on other parts of the game. By doing this, you have created a self-contained gate to content.

Going back to ascended gear: if ascended gear had identical stats to exotic gear, but also had the infusion slot. Infusions could grant increased stats as well as agony resistance, but they worked only in FotM. Again, self-contained content gating.

That might work, but only if the dungeon D didn’t offer better rewards than dungeons A, B and C (that does include better drop rates or useful items – especially exclusive items, but does not include unique skins etc). Otherwise, if unlocking it would be hard, you’d run in mandatory grind problem again.

Astralporing.1957:

Merthax.5172:

Gating content in a way that doesn’t invalidate previous content or affect other parts of the game would probably be just fine to the majority of the anti-grind crowd.

Take, as an example, 4 dungeons: A, B, C, and D. Completion of each of these dungeons is tied to an achievement/title. A, B, and C can be completed in any order, but D is gated until the other 3 are completed. Completion of these dungeons doesn’t have any effect on other parts of the game. By doing this, you have created a self-contained gate to content.

Going back to ascended gear: if ascended gear had identical stats to exotic gear, but also had the infusion slot. Infusions could grant increased stats as well as agony resistance, but they worked only in FotM. Again, self-contained content gating.

That might work, but only if the dungeon D didn’t offer better rewards than dungeons A, B and C (that does include better drop rates or useful items – especially exclusive items, but does not include unique skins etc). Otherwise, if unlocking it would be hard, you’d run in mandatory grind problem again.

Agreed on the basis that I don’t think the gains from one dungeon should out preform any other dungeon. If certain items are needed for a dungeon, then keep it separate from armor, weapons, and accessories (Jewelry). Make a separate slot that is dungeon specific.

There is no solution that makes both ends of the spectrum happy. However, there’s a solution that would make everyone who doesn’t feel too strongly(and I mean strongly) about one way or the other. Diagonal progression is easy to achieve: Just release more powerful gear every set amount of time, and at the same instance give anyone who doesn’t have the second powerful tier of gear equipped a super easy way to get it.
That would eliminate the issue most people are having problems with, namely people dropping too far behind if they didn’t start grinding from day one, while still allowing the real grinders to feel better than everyone else, or like ANet describes it “give dedicated players an edge”.

It would still be a gear treadmill, and personally I would never consider playing a game like that, but it should give the bulk of players taking issue with vertical progression a valid option. Grind hard to be(and stay) the best, or take it easy and be the eternal second.

I was talking strictly about PvE here, btw.

ASB.4295:

There is no solution that makes both ends of the spectrum happy. However, there’s a solution that would make everyone who doesn’t feel too strongly(and I mean strongly) about one way or the other. Diagonal progression is easy to achieve: Just release more powerful gear every set amount of time, and at the same instance give anyone who doesn’t have the second powerful tier of gear equipped a super easy way to get it.

That would eliminate the issue most people are having problems with, namely people dropping too far behind if they didn’t start grinding from day one, while still allowing the real grinders to feel better than everyone else, or like ANet describes it “give dedicated players an edge”.

It would still be a gear treadmill, and personally I would never consider playing a game like that, but it should give the bulk of players taking issue with vertical progression a valid option. Grind hard to be(and stay) the best, or take it easy and be the eternal second.

I was talking strictly about PvE here, btw.

I can understand but Anet has already done that with " …pish-posh amount of stat progression". What I mean with pish-posh is; almost meaningless stat progression. With even that small amount, you can see the inflamed forums. Like I said, I believe the core of stat grinding is the element of gating. But there is still a few that love big powerful numbers that mean nothing in newer content.

My idea that stat progression is really gating is based from threads and post that state Ascended gear is the right way to go, in terms of adding meaningful progression to Guild Wars 2. But ascended gear really offers no meaningful progression in PvE.

I’m all for gating content in a way that doesn’t affect my other content (such as open world or WvW).

Solution 1) Limit ascended gear stats to only be higher inside the new dungeons. In the open world and WvW, the stats are equivalent to exotics. This keeps people like me out of the new content since I plan to stick to my exotics, and keeps the gear grind out of my WvW.

Solution 2) Toss out the idea of bigger stats entirely and instead focus on making achievements the requirements to getting into new zones. You can only get to level 15 of fractals if you have some item from level 14 that allows you to survive. And you can only enter the next dungeon if you get an item from level 30 of fractals or something like that

Leonard.2867:

there is still a few.

In my experience, it’s a conditioned majority. Otherwise these changes would’ve made no sense. I don’t care about the game itself anymore, but I’m quite interested to see the where this is going. I still want GW2 to be successful, because it would increase the chances of an B2P MMO to come out in the future that I personally can enjoy.

I’m really curious if the treadmill will bring in more players to the game. Games as a form of media is still evolving heavily, and we still have a long way to go in order to discover and understand all the major gaming concepts, and the basic human instincts that are stimulated through them.

The game I spend was not wasted. I had a good amount of fun while it lasted, and if GW2 is successful, it could make it easier for other games I can enjoy far longer to make it through the publisher approval phase.

My only concern is that there won’t be any PvE centric multiplayer games with pure horizontal progression at all anymore. We’ll see.

Tolmos.8395:

I’m all for gating content in a way that doesn’t affect my other content (such as open world or WvW).

Solution 1) Limit ascended gear stats to only be higher inside the new dungeons. In the open world and WvW, the stats are equivalent to exotics. This keeps people like me out of the new content since I plan to stick to my exotics, and keeps the gear grind out of my WvW.

Solution 2) Toss out the idea of bigger stats entirely and instead focus on making achievements the requirements to getting into new zones. You can only get to level 15 of fractals if you have some item from level 14 that allows you to survive. And you can only enter the next dungeon if you get an item from level 30 of fractals or something like that

I agree with having an item that helps one progress through a dungeon, but I disagree that that item is used as a key to unlock content, hence why I state that all levels of a gated community should be open. My philosophy on this is simple.

Say your in a 5 man party who all wears green gear. Now you decided to tackle Arah. Sure you can take on Arah, but truly how effect would you be in comparison to having all exotics? I believe this same mechanics can be applied to an ‘agony’ type dungeon. You obtain items that is dungeon specific to help survive the deeper levels on such dungeon.

The reward system can be: You can gain your exotic set from that dungeon in tears. The deeper you go, the more you collect on your dungeon set. Thus, once you master that dungeon, you have a full skin to show off your ‘l33tness’. And the gear gained from a tiered dungeon is not better than other dungeons.

Vertical progression or Horizontal progression wont matter, doesnt impact a hardcore player as me, because the so called progression is vs only NPCs

pvp is in another world spvp
wvw you need numbers not top gear

you all are making a lot of sound with such small spoon

What I find hard to believe is that people would greatly desire a system that grows into a numbers game. Where the only way you feel satisfied is if your current numbers are outdone by better numbers, because this opens way to an endless cycle. This basic premise just forgoes thoughtful and fun diversification, all in favor of a stepping ladder.

Let me explain the problem with vertical progression in this way. Let’s say there are three items you can go collect, two of equal stats, and one higher than those two. Who in their right minds would choose the lesser numbers? Basically the game is telling you the logical choice of progression, it’s sort of like the developers are point in that one direction and telling you “that is the right path”.

Here’s why someone would choose that path, the game needs to be balanced to remain a challenge, so high level content wont be set according to level, because you will be maxed, so the next logical step is to set difficulty according to the highest gear. This means that a person would logically try to stay up to date, because the game is tailor made for those geared correctly, which is why people despise the thought of stat gear in GW2. The game is supposed to be all about skill, and the difference between a character in rares, and another in exotics is already quite evident, now that gap will be expanding further.

I think pushing stats on gear is not all that innovative, it’s uninspiring, and a bit lazy on the designer’s part. There can be a lot more innovative designs made to gear, which promotes choice and fun factors. I mean, who wouldn’t want to pick up two pieces of gear, compare their traits and feel that excitement factor, because both pieces of gear contains cool designs, and you’d want to try out both items in play, just because both items feel good in a fun way.

I’ll throw some ideas out there, just to illustrate the point I’m trying to make. I’m not a designer, so I’ll go for wacky and fun over trying to focus on balance, so keep that in mind…

Traits that could work on weapons:
Off balance – Every fourth hit deals 25% extra damage.
First Blood – If this is the first damage your target takes, deal 50% extra damage and knock them down if its a critical hit.
Breakthrough – A critical hit will cause the next hit to bypass a third of the target’s armor.
Enforcer – When an enemy is downed, your next hit will cause weakness and vulnerability.
Fervent Strike – Deal 5% extra damage and another 5% for every additional enemy within 100 radius.
Parry (off hand weapon) – Have a 15% chance to block attacks, and deal 15% main hand weapon damage.
Culling – For every condition on you, gain 1% critical chance, and for every boon gain 2% critical damage.
Point Blank (ranged) – When an enemy stands in front of you, your attacks deal 10% extra damage and have a 33% chance to cause vulnerability.
Skin Deep – When a blow takes an enemy under 75% or 50% of his maximum health, inflict bleeding.
Rising Sun (Sunrise) – Deal burning to enemies adjacent to target.

Traits that could work on armor:
Brawler – When your movement becomes hampered, the next three attacks will be glancing blows.
Duress – If a single attack deals more than 20% of your maximum health, gain protection.
Craftsmanship – This armor piece can become damaged, but not broken.
Fast Metabolism – Whenever you are poisoned, burning, or bleeding, gain regeneration.
Spiked armor – A critical hit will return damage as if retaliation was active on the character, if it was active, 50% extra damage is returned.
Life Preservation – No longer suffer a downed penalty when revived and bandaging heals 25% faster.
Aggravation – When more than one foe is attacking you, gain 1 might as long as you are taking damage.
Extra Thick – 15% of critical hits will be considered normal hits.
Engraved Arcana – Every hit received adds 1 stack of arcana, when it reaches 10 stacks, deal damage to the damage dealer.
Iron Will – Every fifth hit you receive will remove a condition from you.

This is just a basic idea, it’ll be along the lines of traits, but should differ to many degrees. There should be something that differentiates weapon “traits” with that of your character’s traits. I just threw out random thoughts, but obviously the concept should be refined. Stats shouldn’t be removed from items, but it definitely shouldn’t be the end all to be all. Perhaps an item can have two or three stats and one or two traits. Items will thereby contain an interesting and fun factor, something that’ll make you look twice at it, and not just compare stat numbers.

Now, Infusions…
From what I explained, also think Infusions should represent something special, not just a method of ‘gating’ people in FotM, because it means nothing but instilling a number to make you feel good enough to compete in difficult content. Instead of just taking damage, why doesn’t agony rather allow enemy attacks to have dire effects.
Let’s say you have resistance, then a certain boss will deal normal damage to you with his swipe attack, while the person next to you without any resistance is dazed and poisoned. He can still try to dodge the attack, but the consequences in failure for him is much more dire than it is for you.

This will even allow a sense of challenge to those who wish to leave the resistance in order to make a fight more challenging for him/herself. While right now it just damages you, regardless of anything. There’s no deeper thought to it, other than just to tell you, “you’re not good enough, and we don’t want you here until you get the right stat”. That design is a bit lazy, don’t you think?

By what I suggested, agony can then even be used in other parts of the world, making many fights tougher for some characters, while more manageable to those who’ve taken the effort to counter it.

A mechanic like this can even be incorporated in many other ways. Like say, you make an infusion with agony resistance, while the secondary stat is something along the lines of: might stacking, which increases the amount of might can potentially gain from a skill, or condition blocker, where ticks you receive have the tick damage lessened, or boon fading, where if a boon expires you’ll heal a small bit, or even life counter, which depending on how little your life is, you’ll gain duration on your boons or decrease duration on conditions or it can even add a bit of agony resist.

The point of my extensive post is, numbers aren’t the only way to make players feel that their growing. And it certainly isn’t the best way to get players to plan efficient characters in fun and interesting ways. There could be a whole lot more to character progression than looking at your stats, and playing a math build game.

Leonard.2867:

Maybe there is a common ground that can be reached to where both sides can have cake and eat it too. If we look at other mmos with gear progressions, we find that the gear itself acts as a key to enter new content, thus creating a gated community. So new gear creates a sense of progression through the game. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand is a scaled universe. No amount of stat progression is going to make a player anymore powerful in any zone. Guild Wars 2 wants to focus around the player and not the gear.

IMHO GW2 before ascended items was a compromise, in that even the easily obtainable exotic items are a grind just an acceptable one.

morrolan.9608:

Leonard.2867:

Maybe there is a common ground that can be reached to where both sides can have cake and eat it too. If we look at other mmos with gear progressions, we find that the gear itself acts as a key to enter new content, thus creating a gated community. So new gear creates a sense of progression through the game. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand is a scaled universe. No amount of stat progression is going to make a player anymore powerful in any zone. Guild Wars 2 wants to focus around the player and not the gear.

IMHO GW2 before ascended items was a compromise, in that even the easily obtainable exotic items are a grind just an acceptable one.

Agreed…without crafting to level up, how long does it take to go from level 1-80 and get a full set of exotics?

And a better question: how long should it take to make a new character and get to full level and max-stat gear? This question is particularly relevant to those who wish to roll alts or those who want to invite friends to play.

In a system that promotes player and team skill over player and team stats, such as Guild Wars 2, the current GW2 setup is fine.

“…Have Gated content but not progression in gear stats.”
What is Gated content? I’ve seen these thrown around a lot but I have no clue to what it is.

Depending on what MMO you look at and how you look at it, Gated content is: any content that requires an item, gear, level, achievement, etc…, or all the above that prevents players from continuing to a specific area.

For example, in Guild Wars 2, you have to be level 80 to run Arah in explore mode. You only need be level 1, I believe, to run Fractals but you can’t run a higher level of Fractals until you run a lower level of the same dungeon.

Thanks Leonard, that cleared up a lot of things.

This is something that needs to be voted on in a poll. Gated content vs. Progression in gear stats. Ready? Go! KITTEN-STORM!!!! :O

Starlightpaw.5871:

Thanks Leonard, that cleared up a lot of things.

This is something that needs to be voted on in a poll. Gated content vs. Progression in gear stats. Ready? Go! KITTEN-STORM!!!! :O

Haha, I don’t think that is the point of why I created this thread… esp. the ‘kitten-storm’.

Instead, in this thread I tried to dig deeper into why some people wanted stat progression gear and to show the deeper reason of wanting gear instead of the ‘smoke screen’ reason. I belive it is gated content, the ability for others to gloat achievement where others have failed.

(In my own thoughts, I would like all those who fume that GW2 needs +stat progressions, to show me screen shots of their full Arah set with Dungeon Master title.)

Lol, ok ok. No kitten-storm. I’m interested in what people have to say aswell. Don’t ask me though, I don’t have a completely formed thought yet. :p

Leonard.2867:

If the point is that your referring to the Manifesto, then I understand the point completely. First off the Manifesto only implies no grind (in context to the current dilemma of Ascended gear), and grind in itself is relative. But the community agrees that a gear treadmill is a grind. I think your missing the point.

Re-Read and be constructive.

It does more then that, it specifically states we would not be forced to play the game in a single pigeonholed manner.

Making this armor only available via fractals invalidates that claim and makes obsolete every craft discipline in the game. That’s just one of the ways they have backpedaled on their promises.

Leonard.2867:

Instead, in this thread I tried to dig deeper into why some people wanted stat progression gear and to show the deeper reason of wanting gear instead of the ‘smoke screen’ reason. I belive it is gated content, the ability for others to gloat achievement where others have failed.

I’m not sure I agree with this. My argument would be that the players who are for/against Ascended armour are divided primarily by whether they are most strongly motivated by Advancement (better gear, progression, achieving status/prestige) or whether they are most strongly motivated by Competition (compete with other players, be on top, skillful play). I don’t think taking away the progression aspect (getting better rewards/stronger) in exchange for letting them explore something new (gating content) will appeal to the former motivation much at all.

My compromise would be akin to what has been suggested many times by others – make sure new gear does not function (or scales) in PvP or WvW (so the primary areas of Competition-type play are not affected), and focus statistical progression so that it only provides an advantage to new content (so that the perception is that the comparative power levels in the general world are static). The latter could be achieved by measures such as gear that adds damage or damage resistance only against enemies of a certain type, such as those in each new dungeon. For players interested in that new content, they can progress their power, but it won’t change the relative power they have compared to other players who don’t want to engage with that particular content (because they find it grindy or not interesting).

Azjenco.9425:

<snip> Really interesting ideas <snip>

Now THESE are some terrific ideas I could get behind. Makes weapons and armor far more interesting, and peopl ecan hunt for the perfect blend of traits that suits their particular build.

This is impressive! I would have fun with this type of gear in game.

tigirius.9014:

Leonard.2867:

If the point is that your referring to the Manifesto, then I understand the point completely. First off the Manifesto only implies no grind (in context to the current dilemma of Ascended gear), and grind in itself is relative. But the community agrees that a gear treadmill is a grind. I think your missing the point.

Re-Read and be constructive.

It does more then that, it specifically states we would not be forced to play the game in a single pigeonholed manner.

Making this armor only available via fractals invalidates that claim and makes obsolete every craft discipline in the game. That’s just one of the ways they have backpedaled on their promises.

“… First off the Manifesto only implies no grind (in context to the current dilemma of Ascended gear)…”

…In Context… Re-Read

Do you have any thoughts, ideas, questions, or comments to contribute to the thread that is beneficial to the topic?

I dont see why gate content. It was fine as it is and I was lured already by skins and achievement.

I prefer having it vertical. If it isn’t, PvE always be boring as hell in the end, because you’ll reach the point where you’ve done everything. With vertical, there’s the option to add harder stuff to PvE, that you actually need high-end gear to do, and you always have the option of gearing yourself and doing speed runs to compete with others. Vertical will ALWAYS be better for PvE in that manner. However, this should ONLY be for PvE. If they make PvP and WvW gear based, the game would be ruined.

ValiantWolf.6059:

I prefer having it vertical. If it isn’t, PvE always be boring as hell in the end, because you’ll reach the point where you’ve done everything. With vertical, there’s the option to add harder stuff to PvE, that you actually need high-end gear to do, and you always have the option of gearing yourself and doing speed runs to compete with others. Vertical will ALWAYS be better for PvE in that manner. However, this should ONLY be for PvE. If they make PvP and WvW gear based, the game would be ruined.

If vertical progression is to make content more difficult, could Anet not release a new dungeon that requires all participants to be in MasterWork gear (green)? Would this not have the same effect?

@Azjenco.9425

I like some of your ideas about traits but I disagree with your infusion ideas. I used infusions as a model to implement gating, to help satisfy those who want that type of content. If your piggy backing of my infusion idea to set a difficulty of the rest of the world, then it defeats the purpose of a compromise. In my context, I think infusion, or any other method of gating, should only pertain to a specific dungeon or area.

• Keep armor as it currently was

• Add new Runes which not only included all previous options, but now also included Infusion Immunity.

No need to create a whole new level of gear to grind that offers a whole new tier of power.

illgot.1056:

• Keep armor as it currently was

• Add new Runes which not only included all previous options, but now also included Infusion Immunity.

No need to create a whole new level of gear to grind that offers a whole new tier of power.

So have sellable content on the Trade post as a way to gate? Or is these runes only obtainable via dungeon and are soulbound?

All they would have to do the quell a lot of the anger is to state emphatically that Acended will be the highest tier in terms of stats, and that they will not have any tiers with higher stats.

Then in order to add “Progression” make sure that they don’t add any more normal stats to the higher tier infusions. So no infusions with more than +5 Strength or +5 Toughness or any other stat other than Agony. Hell they can even introduce more stats like Agony I couldn’t care less unless it effected other parts of the game.

As long as “progression” stays confined to one part of the game: Dungeons. I think that would be a compromised most people can live with.

I agree that if you are absolutely resigned to creating an elite raider sub-culture in the game, gating content in such a way that no other aspect of the game is affected is preferable to gear-based stat inflation. But I don’t even like the idea of gated content. One of the things that GW2 did really right was to give incentives for people to play cooperatively and well together rather than behave like rats in a cage. It was brilliant and I’d hate to see any fragmentation based on classes of players.

I like where Azjenco was going with a traits or skills/abilities based approach. And sets of skills that both offer effective challenges and counters among the professions and npc’s would provide an incentive to build your quality of play rather than feed the false sense of progression that attends a gear grind. I am not thinking about a skill grind but more in terms of overall game design. I almost think it would be worth the time to educate players on current thinking in game design rather than appeasing them through making bad design choices which negatively affect all players.

I think a compromise that will satisfy all camps will be hard to come by on this. It’s probably better to have a vision, evangelize it, and focus on satisfying those who have come on board. If it’s an idea whose time has come there should be a good number joining up. And it could be blazing a trail that one day leads to a more satisfying experience for all gamers.

Edit: Btw, thanks OP for creating a well-reasoned post that is constructive. This is exactly what was is needed right now. Thanks for making the effort to do it.

Kopipoki.3542:

All they would have to do the quell a lot of the anger is to state emphatically that Acended will be the highest tier in terms of stats, and that they will not have any tiers with higher stats.

Then in order to add “Progression” make sure that they don’t add any more normal stats to the higher tier infusions. So no infusions with more than +5 Strength or +5 Toughness or any other stat other than Agony. Hell they can even introduce more stats like Agony I couldn’t care less unless it effected other parts of the game.

As long as “progression” stays confined to one part of the game: Dungeons. I think that would be a compromised most people can live with.

Anet already made a statement that Ascended gear would be released over time and that new +stat gear would not be released every three months. However, this does not mean +stat gear would not be released at all in future content. Of course we will have to wait and see what is said Monday.

Upon reading the forums I notice that the majority of outrage is coming from +stat gear in general, not just for Dungeons. Even confining such elements still is a very huge issue no matter in what section of the game it is implemented.

Leonard.2867:

I like some of your ideas about traits but I disagree with your infusion ideas. I used infusions as a model to implement gating, to help satisfy those who want that type of content. If your piggy backing of my infusion idea to set a difficulty of the rest of the world, then it defeats the purpose of a compromise. In my context, I think infusion, or any other method of gating, should only pertain to a specific dungeon or area.

Oh, alright, I see now.

Well, there are two things about infusions that bother me.

First thing is, agony kicks in around FotM level 10. When you reach level 10 and don’t have agony resist yet, then you’re out of luck, the game will cut you off from content. Although that’s not bad, per se, it’s just handled poorly. Because…

My second point is agony itself is poorly thought out. It doesn’t use actual game mechanics, the developers thought it was a good idea for agony to function in a way of: “Alright, we don’t want you here right now, so just take a bunch of damage”. As my idea specified, why don’t they implement it in a way where agony cause boss attacks to have more fatal effects on you, or even the environment can work against you, such as you trigger some traps that players with agony resist don’t

Basically, agony has the potential to be used in the game in very challenging ways, but instead the designers thought it be best to just use it as a damaging penalty system. As of now it’s a half kittenedly poor implementation of an idea that has far greater potential than the developers seem to realize.

Leonard.2867:

illgot.1056:

• Keep armor as it currently was

• Add new Runes which not only included all previous options, but now also included Infusion Immunity.

No need to create a whole new level of gear to grind that offers a whole new tier of power.

So have sellable content on the Trade post as a way to gate? Or is these runes only obtainable via dungeon and are soulbound?

They could be soulbound loot from the fractal dungeons or craftable in the forge (then bind on pick up).