Guild Wars 2

LostBalloon.6423:

I would say that Wildstar’s implementation of it is a lot more engaging and fun.

It’s just too bad that game turned out to be WoW 2.0, I hated the grind in that game which was a total turn off, but the combat mechanics in that game far exceeded gw2

Games like Wildstar have no grind .. its all just “endgame” and “progression”. Grind only
exists in games like GW2 where they want us to buy gold for gems

And for all you Sheldons out there : yes that was sarcasm.

Beldin.5498:

LostBalloon.6423:

I would say that Wildstar’s implementation of it is a lot more engaging and fun.

It’s just too bad that game turned out to be WoW 2.0, I hated the grind in that game which was a total turn off, but the combat mechanics in that game far exceeded gw2

Games like Wildstar have no grind .. its all just “endgame” and “progression”. Grind only
exists in games like GW2 where they want us to buy gold for gems

Wildstar has a crazy list of things to “attune” for a raid (sure its ok to be hard, but it feels over the top, specially for the first one.
Sure, Wildstar has great end-game, if you dont get bored out of your mind to get there. I found the leveling process and exploring to be a huge pain in the kitten , it was totally boring.

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

~snip~

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Berserker’s with their giant axe is pretty much everything you describe in Tera, and it does trivialize much of the content, especially once you get higher in levels and don’t suffer the movement penalty.

CureForLiving.5360:

Curunen.8729:

GW2 camera and targeting is still kitten.

Hopefully by GW3 they can drop this archaic targeting/camera system for full action combat. I’m not asking for a TPS, but manual aiming of skills, soft lock targeting of skills (such as mass effect did with powers) and so on. I’m aware ESO has this, but I’ll wait for that to go f2p/b2p before trying it.

Yeah, the current combat system does feel like ANet decided: ok we want action combat but let’s not go full action combat because that might scare away the usually MMO crowd. Of course it’s not a bad system, I think most of the issues are in how encounters are designed more than how players ability and skills function.

ocirne.7915:

Being able to attack and move without pause removes a massive amount of the positioning decisions from the game that could have added a lot of depth.

Instead of: “Hey, I’m standing in AoE but my target is almost dead, should i take some more damage to attack once more or get out of the AoE right now?”,
Its “non stop kiting and circling and spamming skills.”

Nah, the positioning thing (recalling my wow days) really didn’t add much depth, encounters were so predictable (by design of course) that positioning became little more than learning a set of steps. The GW2 system adds a bit more dynamic-ness into the mix, constantly having to move, being aware of surrounding dangers, ensuring you dodge out of AOE etc. I guess it’s a matter of taste really, but I never found “stand here, oh look fire, move a bit to the left” to be all that engaging (although it might also have been WoW habit to turn all dps into an fixed ability rotation).

Beldin.5498:

Smith.1826:

And I find the amount of movement in GW2 to be just as non-immersive. More importantly, it’s what makes the game feel closer to WoW to me than any other action game or RPG.

Ehhhmmm .. what ? The movement makes you feel like a game where everything
roots you … why other games that root you are better than a game that roots you ?

Next you tell us the graphics from GW2 remind you at WoW and Dragons Nest
has the most natural graphics .. lol

I don’t think immersion is the right word to be using in this conversation, rather engagement. Small difference, really but immersion relates to the blurring of the boundary between you and the game (so this involves a lot more than mechanics) while engagement relates to ones interest and involvement (how does one define engagement other than to say engage?) with the mechanics. Of course these definitions are more my own view than anything else.

It is really the design of encounters. While I prefer full on action combat, I could live with gw2 combat if encounters made use of the mechanics better. Stacking in a corner is poor use of mechanics, but the most effective method to play the game.

LostBalloon.6423:

I would say that Wildstar’s implementation of it is a lot more engaging and fun.

It’s just too bad that game turned out to be WoW 2.0, I hated the grind in that game which was a total turn off, but the combat mechanics in that game far exceeded gw2

Wild Star is subscription based so, so much for that. GW2 has pretty much destroyed any subscription based mmo for me.

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it it off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Thats not true, I have a warrior over there and when I attack I am rooted no matter what. I understand you prefer Tera over GW2 as you should understand I prefer GW2 over Tera and nothing can be disputed when it comes to Tera’s combat roots the character while attacking.

Oh yeah, might I add, you’re stuck with one weapon set in Tera. For example, warriors can only melee over there, they have no range, which puts you at a disadvantage in pvp in my opinion.

I just got done playing an hour of Tera on my warrior, attacking doesn’t root, but it does force you to move in the direction of a specific attack. If that is rooting then gw2 warrior rush is rooting and so is whirlwind…

MMM k, just also got back from playing Tera. Let me explain my definition of rooting. When you attack you are stuck in that attack without the ability to move.

Example: When I attack with my great sword in gw2 I’m able to strafe left and right and still swing that great sword. When I use 100 blades I can break out of it while strafing left or right. I’m not able to do these things in Tera once I attack until the attack is done.

i like the combat system in GW2,

i had quit WoW when cataclysm came out because PvP had just become bad.
i tried a few other games after that- DDO, Runes of Magic, and a few others not even worth mentioning. but the combat system in this game is what made me decide to stick with it- the pvp was fun with this system

If only old PvE group content would have more action combat, since they’re mostly done with passive combat, stack on the best possible blind spot and sometimes without even dodging….

Vayne.8563:

I remember being rooted in WoW quite frequently. I’m pretty sure I played other professions though. But saying my profession didn’t root me, when pretty much all the other ones did isn’t really representative of the game.

I can’t recall any melee classes/specializations putting any emphasis on rooting. If not then especially not now. Maybe enhancement Shaman? Wasn’t much a fan of them though, so I don’t know much about the specialization.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

I remember being rooted in WoW quite frequently. I’m pretty sure I played other professions though. But saying my profession didn’t root me, when pretty much all the other ones did isn’t really representative of the game.

I can’t recall any melee classes/specializations putting any emphasis on rooting. If not then especially not now. Maybe enhancement Shaman? Wasn’t much a fan of them though, so I don’t know much about the specialization.

Maybe I didn’t use melee professions. But no one ever claimed WoW had active combat. Ever.

I’m pretty sure when GW 2 talked about active combat, if that existed in WoW, I’d have heard about it by now on the forums. I remember having to stop to use skills in WoW. But I probably didn’t do a boatload of melee.

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

I remember being rooted in WoW quite frequently. I’m pretty sure I played other professions though. But saying my profession didn’t root me, when pretty much all the other ones did isn’t really representative of the game.

I can’t recall any melee classes/specializations putting any emphasis on rooting. If not then especially not now. Maybe enhancement Shaman? Wasn’t much a fan of them though, so I don’t know much about the specialization.

Maybe I didn’t use melee professions. But no one ever claimed WoW had active combat. Ever.

Er, is there a point where I said it did? I did say that GW2’s combat feels closer to WoW than any other action RPG, and “skills on the go” helps in driving that feeling home for me.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

I remember being rooted in WoW quite frequently. I’m pretty sure I played other professions though. But saying my profession didn’t root me, when pretty much all the other ones did isn’t really representative of the game.

I can’t recall any melee classes/specializations putting any emphasis on rooting. If not then especially not now. Maybe enhancement Shaman? Wasn’t much a fan of them though, so I don’t know much about the specialization.

Maybe I didn’t use melee professions. But no one ever claimed WoW had active combat. Ever.

Er, is there a point where I said it did? I did say that GW2’s combat feels closer to WoW than any other action RPG, and “skills on the go” helps in driving that feeling home for me.

When I said no one said it, in the two years this game has been alive, when active combat threads come up and people point it out as a difference to WoW, I’ve not seen it contradicted an I would have. That’s what I’m saying. Obviously you’re saying it now. lol

??? No clue what you’re on about, but /shrug

Smith.1826:

??? No clue what you’re on about, but /shrug

How can a static combat system feel close to an active one? That doesn’t make sense in any language I know.

I remember being rooted when using most skills in WoW, except the handful of instacast ones. That’s all. You’re saying the combat is similar and it’s definitely the first time I’ve ever heard it.

It’s night and day to me.

Smith.1826:

Maybe I didn’t use melee professions. But no one ever claimed WoW had active combat. Ever.

Er, is there a point where I said it did? I did say that GW2’s combat feels closer to WoW than any other action RPG, and “skills on the go” helps in driving that feeling home for me.[/quote]

If you say GW2 combat is more or less like WoW combat you either imply that WoW
has active combat .. or that GW2 has NOT.

And yes .. in older MMOs it were of course mainly casters that were rootet when
using spells with long cast times. Wizards and Warlocks for example in EQ2 had
some AoE with 3-5 seconds cast time .. and the whole time you were rooted.
Or even rangers need to stop for everything else than auto-attack there.

I wouldn’t say very good, it has the potential to be; despite not using a hitbox type system they can easily mimic elements of successful games that has more depth to combat – dynamic/fluid/reactive combat (no not typical mmo crap).

They dropped the ball on mob AI and their combat decisions, they made them dumb (see player > chase player >spam skills) and that’s pretty much half the combat.

Kinda off the subject matter here but in regards to Tera vs Gw2, Gw2’s character customization is better than Tera’s. Way better.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it it off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Thats not true, I have a warrior over there and when I attack I am rooted no matter what. I understand you prefer Tera over GW2 as you should understand I prefer GW2 over Tera and nothing can be disputed when it comes to Tera’s combat roots the character while attacking.

Oh yeah, might I add, you’re stuck with one weapon set in Tera. For example, warriors can only melee over there, they have no range, which puts you at a disadvantage in pvp in my opinion.

I just got done playing an hour of Tera on my warrior, attacking doesn’t root, but it does force you to move in the direction of a specific attack. If that is rooting then gw2 warrior rush is rooting and so is whirlwind…

MMM k, just also got back from playing Tera. Let me explain my definition of rooting. When you attack you are stuck in that attack without the ability to move.

Example: When I attack with my great sword in gw2 I’m able to strafe left and right and still swing that great sword. When I use 100 blades I can break out of it while strafing left or right. I’m not able to do these things in Tera once I attack until the attack is done.

Well you can’t cancel abilities, that isn’t really rooting if the ability is moving you. I cant cancel rush on my gw2 warrior. Is that rooting? I don’t think so.

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it it off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Thats not true, I have a warrior over there and when I attack I am rooted no matter what. I understand you prefer Tera over GW2 as you should understand I prefer GW2 over Tera and nothing can be disputed when it comes to Tera’s combat roots the character while attacking.

Oh yeah, might I add, you’re stuck with one weapon set in Tera. For example, warriors can only melee over there, they have no range, which puts you at a disadvantage in pvp in my opinion.

I just got done playing an hour of Tera on my warrior, attacking doesn’t root, but it does force you to move in the direction of a specific attack. If that is rooting then gw2 warrior rush is rooting and so is whirlwind…

MMM k, just also got back from playing Tera. Let me explain my definition of rooting. When you attack you are stuck in that attack without the ability to move.

Example: When I attack with my great sword in gw2 I’m able to strafe left and right and still swing that great sword. When I use 100 blades I can break out of it while strafing left or right. I’m not able to do these things in Tera once I attack until the attack is done.

Well you can’t cancel abilities, that isn’t really rooting if the ability is moving you. I cant cancel rush on my gw2 warrior. Is that rooting? I don’t think so.

Exactly, Gw2 doesn’t root, we’ve already covered that.

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

??? No clue what you’re on about, but /shrug

How can a static combat system feel close to an active one? That doesn’t make sense in any language I know.

Well for starters, I don’t find WoW entirely static. Maybe it’s a YMMV thing, but playing a Warrior tank was always a very active and satisfying experience in managing mobs, threat, and mitigation.

I’m not going to argue that GW2 isn’t more “active” than WoW, but it’s still grounded in familiar MMO gameplay. Bodiless blocking, skills-on-the-go, and other common MMO mechanics (fears, roots, invisibility i.e. stealth) are features I’m all too familiar and tired with – all on top of a standard MMO control scheme. I can sympathize with it being “the standard” but I’m getting a bit irked with having to hold the RMB for so long.

100% personal opinion: Being able to use skills while moving seems a bit counter-intuitive in a game with target lock…

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Smith.1826:

??? No clue what you’re on about, but /shrug

How can a static combat system feel close to an active one? That doesn’t make sense in any language I know.

Well for starters, I don’t find WoW entirely static. Maybe it’s a YMMV thing, but playing a Warrior tank was always a very active and satisfying experience in managing mobs, threat, and mitigation.

I’m not going to argue that GW2 isn’t more “active” than WoW, but it’s still grounded in familiar MMO gameplay. Bodiless blocking, skills-on-the-go, and other common MMO mechanics (fears, roots, invisibility i.e. stealth) are features I’m all too familiar and tired with – all on top of a standard MMO control scheme. I can sympathize with it being “the standard” but I’m getting a bit irked with having to hold the RMB for so long.

100% personal opinion: Being able to use skills while moving seems a bit counter-intuitive in a game with autotargetting…

Most decent players switch auto targeting off though.

Whoops, wrong term. Meant ‘target lock’.

Smith.1826:

Whoops, wrong term. Meant ‘target lock’.

Well I played a hunter and a shaman, and tried some of the other professions and if you’re not doing melee, the combat is night and day.

I am always a bit surprised when people claim tera has true action combat and gw2 is just a glorified tab targeting system cause my experience is actually the opposite. Tera is the one that works closest to tab targeting (only it uses the reticule to select the target rather then the tab). In tera if your projectile hits or misses depends on whether your target was in the reticule when you fired. If say your target sprints away just after you fire such that technically you should have missed because by the time the projectile reaches the target the target is no longer there you’ll still hit (if the target is just a bit away the projectile will home on it) if its too far away the projectile will explode in empty air and still damage the target.

Not so in Gw2, targeting only gives your projectile a firing solution so to speak. If your target moves away after you fire and your projectile doesnt touch you’ll miss.

In short in tera its the targeting that counts for a hit or miss. In Gw2 its the actual projectile hitting with the target that counts.

That coupled with no routing in Gw2 makes Gw2 combat a better experience to me.

Certain skills do have roots & animation locks, such as the Ele’s Meteor Shower, and Warrior’s Rush & Bladetrail. Meteor Shower can be stopped though by moving. I’m not really sure if there’s a trick to stop Bladetrail or Rush, but i do know that Ranger’s Slash, Kick, and Pounce skills (Sword #1 on hotbar), can be stopped with a few tricks, and this could be considered an animation lock if the autoattack feature is on.

Overall though, GW2 has more freedom in mobility than most MMOs out there. You don’t have this luxury in most asian mmos, or Tera, because you are locked into the animation until the skill has completed. This is mostly due to the combo systems associated with them. I could be wrong on Tera, since i only got to around lvl 16.

You do not need a target in GW2. It’s the same as Tera. The only difference is that Tera has a crosshair. If anything, it takes more skill in GW2 if you play without targeting mobs or players. All skills can basically be used without a target in GW2, which makes it more mobile. You also have to be very careful not to waste it’s cooldown without a target, especially in pvp.

Basically, GW2 is similar to Tera, except it doesn’t have a crosshair, and it doesn’t root you like in Tera or Neverwinter.

I disagree. GW2 combat is just posing as “action oriented”, beneath the dodging and moving, it is pretty stale. Responsible is the auto-hit mechanic. Save abilities and conditions that stop an attack from landing, you will never miss. No real kiting, no real dodging (it is really just invulnerability frames with a nice animation), no real sidestepping, no real targetting. There are MMORPG (DCUO, Tera) that were much bolder introducing “twitch” skills and probably hundreds of MMOish cooperative rpg games that excel in this (Warframe e.g.).

So why if you move back and forth really fast, can you avoid most projectiles?

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it it off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Thats not true, I have a warrior over there and when I attack I am rooted no matter what. I understand you prefer Tera over GW2 as you should understand I prefer GW2 over Tera and nothing can be disputed when it comes to Tera’s combat roots the character while attacking.

Oh yeah, might I add, you’re stuck with one weapon set in Tera. For example, warriors can only melee over there, they have no range, which puts you at a disadvantage in pvp in my opinion.

I just got done playing an hour of Tera on my warrior, attacking doesn’t root, but it does force you to move in the direction of a specific attack. If that is rooting then gw2 warrior rush is rooting and so is whirlwind…

MMM k, just also got back from playing Tera. Let me explain my definition of rooting. When you attack you are stuck in that attack without the ability to move.

Example: When I attack with my great sword in gw2 I’m able to strafe left and right and still swing that great sword. When I use 100 blades I can break out of it while strafing left or right. I’m not able to do these things in Tera once I attack until the attack is done.

Well you can’t cancel abilities, that isn’t really rooting if the ability is moving you. I cant cancel rush on my gw2 warrior. Is that rooting? I don’t think so.

Exactly, Gw2 doesn’t root, we’ve already covered that.

According to your definition it does root…

Vayne.8563:

So why if you move back and forth really fast, can you avoid most projectiles?

The projectiles still have to connect with the target, I’m sure it was considered a design feature to make it more realistic, but you can’t aim them after they are released and I’m sure the devs wouldn’t have intended people to win by rapidly running back in forth. You can dodge every harpy shot in fractals this way too. It doesn’t make it aiming or skillful just a gimmick that circumvents slow ranged attacks, and they gave rangers a trait to increase speed because of how much this negatively impacted them.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

GW2 is the only mmo I have played where the character doesn’t get rooted while fighting. I simply love being able to move while attacking.

You need to play more MMOs. It is a feature since at least 10 years ago. Action Combat MMOs have been out there for quite a long time.

GW1’s combat was a whole lot more active than people give it credit because of the aftercast mechanic. A skilled player could still move at about half speed even when constantly auto attacking / using attack skills. Combined with body blocking, a warrior could circle around a moving player to block his path while constantly attacking.

Though only a very small percentage of the playerbase was decent at this..

Galen Grey.4709:

I am always a bit surprised when people claim tera has true action combat and gw2 is just a glorified tab targeting system cause my experience is actually the opposite. Tera is the one that works closest to tab targeting (only it uses the reticule to select the target rather then the tab). In tera if your projectile hits or misses depends on whether your target was in the reticule when you fired. If say your target sprints away just after you fire such that technically you should have missed because by the time the projectile reaches the target the target is no longer there you’ll still hit (if the target is just a bit away the projectile will home on it) if its too far away the projectile will explode in empty air and still damage the target.

Not so in Gw2, targeting only gives your projectile a firing solution so to speak. If your target moves away after you fire and your projectile doesnt touch you’ll miss.

In short in tera its the targeting that counts for a hit or miss. In Gw2 its the actual projectile hitting with the target that counts.

That coupled with no routing in Gw2 makes Gw2 combat a better experience to me.

The target can be nothing or somewhere between two mobs though if you want to slash the mob on the side as you move past you might aim to the left or right so you hit the mobs side as you move past. Also collision and the way attacks work are very different. In gw2 you can’t engage a target at point blank and simply sidestep while remaining in melee range to avoid most normal attacks. You will get hit unless you run away and kite. There are a few mobs with charge attacks you can avoid by running through your target though. The problem with gw2 that makes it glorified tab targetting to me is the interaction between player and enemies. For general AI attacks they simply target an enemy and if they swing and the target is anywhere in their hitbox they will hit. This is just like wow or traditional mmos. You can’t just step out of the way. Even if you run through the target to their back they will still connect. In Tera mobs moving rapidly can harm you too by physically connecting with you as they turn or run. You can be effectively trampled, but circling an enemy or moving away from the physical weapon they are attack you with can mean they miss completely. These interactions help to make the difference between a tab targetting game or a action combat game.

This isn’t a reply to say PSO2 is better then gw2 combat but I really like this discussion and I’d like to understand what is happening between these 2 games. Frankly I seriously enjoyed PSO2’s combat but gw2 is essentially doing the same thing is it not?

Example of Phantasy Star Online 2 Combat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkuwP7HyR-E

She is locked on target much like we tab target something and dodging accordingly albeit at a much higher frequency and style. But it’s still similar?

I’m having so much trouble discerning why PSO2’s combat is different because I love it so much more esthetically visually but I still like gw2!

Maybe someone can point it out to me so I can explain it to friends without so much bias xD

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it it off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Thats not true, I have a warrior over there and when I attack I am rooted no matter what. I understand you prefer Tera over GW2 as you should understand I prefer GW2 over Tera and nothing can be disputed when it comes to Tera’s combat roots the character while attacking.

Oh yeah, might I add, you’re stuck with one weapon set in Tera. For example, warriors can only melee over there, they have no range, which puts you at a disadvantage in pvp in my opinion.

I just got done playing an hour of Tera on my warrior, attacking doesn’t root, but it does force you to move in the direction of a specific attack. If that is rooting then gw2 warrior rush is rooting and so is whirlwind…

MMM k, just also got back from playing Tera. Let me explain my definition of rooting. When you attack you are stuck in that attack without the ability to move.

Example: When I attack with my great sword in gw2 I’m able to strafe left and right and still swing that great sword. When I use 100 blades I can break out of it while strafing left or right. I’m not able to do these things in Tera once I attack until the attack is done.

Well you can’t cancel abilities, that isn’t really rooting if the ability is moving you. I cant cancel rush on my gw2 warrior. Is that rooting? I don’t think so.

Exactly, Gw2 doesn’t root, we’ve already covered that.

According to your definition it does root…

No it doesn’t, But I see no point in continuing on with this debate with you, have a good day.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

hazenvirus.8154:

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

tofumon.5924:

Tera Online mastered it actually. Vindictus is technically an mmo too but plays more like a hack’n slash. And then I think there’s a few other ones like C9 and some Korean ones that aren’t available here yet.

Thing about Tera is, you are rooted when attacking unlike GW2. Here you can move while attacking which puts GW2 combat above Tera’s combat system in my opinion.

Um no, you are rooted only if you use spells that root you. Just like 100 blades on warrior in gw2. Tera makes use of having to complete a certain part of each attack before you can react and cancel or dodge. This isn’t a bad thing becuase it makes timing and positioning important, adding a level of skill beyond pressing the highest damage ability as soon as it it off cooldown. Auto attacks in Tera are also different for some of classes, warrior for instance can move while auto attacking although slower. Also many of Tera’s skills have built in mobility allowing you to use them for more than just attacking, much like a warriors whirlwind in gw2.

If you could run in circles and spam 1 on some classes in Tera it would completely trivialize the content because of Tera’s combat system and it’s AI. In Tera you are constantly avoiding attacks through your classes mechanics, abilities, and positioning. If I could take any melee class from gw2 against Tera’s AI I could just run in circles and spam 1 and win. The fact that you can move and attack in one game and not the other has no bearing on the dominance of one combat system over the other. What I can say is that Tera has much more engaging and difficult combat mechanics. When mastered they are far more rewarding than anything I have encountered in gw2. Collision is also an important factor in action combat, something that gw2 also lacks.

Thats not true, I have a warrior over there and when I attack I am rooted no matter what. I understand you prefer Tera over GW2 as you should understand I prefer GW2 over Tera and nothing can be disputed when it comes to Tera’s combat roots the character while attacking.

Oh yeah, might I add, you’re stuck with one weapon set in Tera. For example, warriors can only melee over there, they have no range, which puts you at a disadvantage in pvp in my opinion.

I just got done playing an hour of Tera on my warrior, attacking doesn’t root, but it does force you to move in the direction of a specific attack. If that is rooting then gw2 warrior rush is rooting and so is whirlwind…

MMM k, just also got back from playing Tera. Let me explain my definition of rooting. When you attack you are stuck in that attack without the ability to move.

Example: When I attack with my great sword in gw2 I’m able to strafe left and right and still swing that great sword. When I use 100 blades I can break out of it while strafing left or right. I’m not able to do these things in Tera once I attack until the attack is done.

Well you can’t cancel abilities, that isn’t really rooting if the ability is moving you. I cant cancel rush on my gw2 warrior. Is that rooting? I don’t think so.

Exactly, Gw2 doesn’t root, we’ve already covered that.

According to your definition it does root…

No it doesn’t, But I see no point in continuing on with this debate with you, have a good day.

You told me Tera had attacks that rooted despite them moving you because they were locked or couldn’t be cancelled. Then you said that guild wars 2 attack that did the same thing wasn’t rooting. I also see no more point in continuing this conversation as your argument has been proven to be flawed.

A bitz.3825:

This isn’t a reply to say PSO2 is better then gw2 combat but I really like this discussion and I’d like to understand what is happening between these 2 games. Frankly I seriously enjoyed PSO2’s combat but gw2 is essentially doing the same thing is it not?

Example of Phantasy Star Online 2 Combat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkuwP7HyR-E

She is locked on target much like we tab target something and dodging accordingly albeit at a much higher frequency and style. But it’s still similar?

I’m having so much trouble discerning why PSO2’s combat is different because I love it so much more esthetically visually but I still like gw2!

Maybe someone can point it out to me so I can explain it to friends without so much bias xD

It is similar to tab targeting, but you have target lock. This has been used in many of the Zelda games too. The enemies have multiple target areas. You see the feet and head as target points. If an aoe cone expands and hits those they also can take damage. Player skills are basically tab target though. Enemies are obviously coded in a more interesting way.

Edit fixed mistake.

Algreg.3629:

I disagree. GW2 combat is just posing as “action oriented”, beneath the dodging and moving, it is pretty stale. Responsible is the auto-hit mechanic. Save abilities and conditions that stop an attack from landing, you will never miss. No real kiting, no real dodging (it is really just invulnerability frames with a nice animation), no real sidestepping, no real targetting. There are MMORPG (DCUO, Tera) that were much bolder introducing “twitch” skills and probably hundreds of MMOish cooperative rpg games that excel in this (Warframe e.g.).

ummm, do you ever watch helseth playstyle?

I rather call his mesmer build a terrain exploit gank mesmer rather than a shatter mesmer.

Melee attacks have no weight, maybe except for Warrior’s Hammer F1.

“Dodge” is a glorified invulnerability frame as others have pointed out.

Deep down, the combat is still a pew pew auto attack, tab targeting; however, ANET did a decent job disguising it.

Dodge is almost always glorified invincibility. Even in something like Dark Souls, you have fast rolling or in the case of DkS2, AGI.

I bring up Dark Souls as I think it has the best action combat of any game I have played. Of course, the magic spam and cheese builds are probably among the worst.

GW2 is pretty good though. The only MMO (even though it only technically is one) that I have played with this level of combat is Vindictus. But unlike most games, there were certain classes that had no invuln on dodge, thus making it a ‘true’ dodge.